The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - February 14, 2023


The Blueprint： Bail Reform with MP Glen Motz and MP Larry Brock


Episode Stats

Length

22 minutes

Words per Minute

156.64064

Word Count

3,517

Sentence Count

229

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

4


Summary

In this episode, Larry Brock and Glenn Mott discuss the need for bail reform in Canada. They discuss the ongoing problem of criminals being released from custody and re-offending again, and how it affects law enforcement officers across the country.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to the Larry Brock and Glenn Mott Show, formerly known as The Blueprint,
00:00:10.220 with new content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. We appreciate you joining
00:00:14.560 us here. We ask that you like, comment, subscribe, share this program. There's information that
00:00:19.060 you're about to hear on bail reform and C21 that you probably aren't hearing in the mainstream
00:00:23.680 media. We ask that you share that and tell your friends they can download or listen to the program
00:00:28.460 in its entirety on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play, and Spotify. You name it, it is out
00:00:34.340 there. The two gentlemen sitting next to me here, fair no introduction, although they are here quite
00:00:40.000 often. We appreciate it because it's a topic we need to keep talking about, sadly. So we have Larry
00:00:45.140 Brock from Brantford Brant, also Glenn Mott's from Medicine Hat, Cartston, Warner, in the beautiful
00:00:49.980 province of Alberta. Thank you, gentlemen, for coming on yet again. Great to be here. Thank you,
00:00:54.240 Jamie. And happy Valentine's Day, everyone. Always a pleasure. Happy Valentine's Day. Absolutely. It's
00:00:57.540 Valentine's Day edition, but I don't think there's much love coming from the Liberals on the topic
00:01:02.220 of bail reform. We have instances where we have people out on bail, violent, repeat offenders,
00:01:09.060 committing crimes yet again. We're seeing crime rates go up in this country. What is going on?
00:01:15.200 Why is there no action from this government? I know their previous piece of legislation started
00:01:20.420 the ball rolling, C75, reduced sentences for a series of crimes, and it took a few years to kind of
00:01:26.820 percolate through the system, and now we're dealing with the ramifications of that.
00:01:32.500 To be extremely blunt with all of our listeners, this was a process that this government has created
00:01:42.360 literally since 2015 to telegraph to criminals from coast to coast to coast that you can continue
00:01:51.640 and to repeat your bad behavior, and there will be limited consequences, that we will grant you bail
00:02:00.020 at the very earliest opportunity and on the most least onerous conditions, and that you can continue
00:02:07.920 to repeat that same type of behavior and continue to get bail. And then eventually, when you are about
00:02:15.400 to be sentenced, we have this liberal government introducing all types of legislation to make it
00:02:21.900 very easy for offenders to get through their sentence without learning anything. And that's one of the
00:02:29.500 biggest frustrating things for me as a former prosecutor, that one of the tenets of sentencing
00:02:36.080 in our courts is the issue regarding deterrence, is learning from your behavior. Anything that this
00:02:44.120 government has done with Bill 75 and now C5 telegraphs the complete opposite. We're making it easy for you
00:02:53.620 to continue to terrorize our communities. That's what's happening.
00:02:58.640 Now, as a former law enforcement officer, what do you think the morale is in police departments across the
00:03:04.760 country? Because I'm sure you've spoken to colleagues that you used to work with or have within your
00:03:09.920 network. You're right. They're frustrated, just like the communities are frustrated. You know,
00:03:16.680 the public sometimes blames the courts or the police services for the fact that, you know, there's
00:03:25.620 criminals being released from, you know, out again right after an offense is committed. But as Larry's
00:03:31.640 indicated, legislatively now, the police and the Crown, the courts, are required, mandated, to release
00:03:40.380 somebody at the earliest opportunity apart from detention, again with limited conditions.
00:03:48.980 And so it's having an impact on law enforcement morale, but it's also having an impact on law enforcement
00:03:54.920 responses and calls for service. Because, you know, look at the instances we've had. There's a carjacking
00:04:02.260 in Manitoba within the last month where the accused was released from the Winnipeg Police Service as per
00:04:08.160 the conditions of this legislation in 2018 and C75 that after, minutes after his release, he was involved in a
00:04:16.940 violent carjacking, released on bail. You know, we have these, there's been literally hundreds of them across the
00:04:22.720 country in the last month, some of them with the loss of life of the OPP constable in Hamilton, where every, to a
00:04:29.260 person, every accused was released on bail because that was the mandated requirement of the legislation. And so, it's
00:04:38.000 putting our communities at risk. It is putting, you know, an undue, a toll on our officers who have to respond to these calls
00:04:46.840 that, in some instances, the paperwork isn't even done yet. And that accused is out on bail, re-offending
00:04:53.380 again. So, the old adage that, you know, 80% of the crime is committed by 20% of the criminals is very, very true in the
00:05:00.180 circumstance because they're not held to account.
00:05:03.180 So, Jamie, if I could add, if I could add to that, I have, in the last several weeks, have spoken to a number of police
00:05:09.600 associations in my own riding and across this country and police chiefs. And more to, to Glenn's point,
00:05:16.280 unfortunately, we are seeing officers really second-guessing whether or not this is a career choice for them.
00:05:24.080 It's impacting on recruitment. We are having officers who are actually actively looking for office jobs because, at least at
00:05:32.820 that point, they can guarantee to their family, they're going to return at the end of the day.
00:05:36.820 Right. And they don't want to take the, the, the stress of going through a situation where they might have to
00:05:44.920 arrest a violent repeat offender and see that person walking out the door before the paperwork's
00:05:49.520 dry. That, to me, would, would probably put my stress low.
00:05:54.100 Well, and it does. And Larry and I both have history in the justice system where we remember the day where
00:05:59.080 on the street, if I was to arrest an individual for a crime, you know, and I will talk about violent
00:06:05.080 crime, but for a violent crime, that first arrest, the first instance, the onus is on me as a, as a police
00:06:12.520 department or as a police constable or the, or the crown prosecutor to, to show justice why that accused
00:06:21.300 to be retained, detained in custody. That is completely turned around. And also, if that, if that individual is released,
00:06:28.840 they're released on what was called judicial interim release on conditions. And if they committed another offense,
00:06:34.920 while they're out on those conditions, the onus is reversed, not on the crown any longer, on the police or the, or the
00:06:41.460 courts, but on the accused to show why they should be released from custody on a second offense. That no longer
00:06:48.920 happens. So it's like over and over. We call it the revolving door of justice. Right. That's exactly why this is
00:06:54.600 happening. It's happening. Liberal legislation that is failing public safety, failing Canadians. And I
00:07:01.240 appreciate Larry's comment. The whole process of a justice system is to, is to rehabilitate, but it's
00:07:09.240 also to deter. Right. And we have no deterrence any longer. And, and to follow up again, excellent points
00:07:15.560 from my colleague. Prior to 2015, when I was in the trenches, in bail court, probably three to four days a
00:07:23.080 week, when you had an individual facing a reverse onus situation. So either they've committed offense,
00:07:31.480 which by its very nature creates a reverse onus, or there already had been a release and they breached
00:07:37.720 that particular release by committing further offenses. We felt confident prior to 2015 that a reverse
00:07:45.320 onus was such a steep hill for an individual to establish that there should be another,
00:07:52.040 another opportunity for them to prove themselves in the community. We found more and more people
00:07:57.320 being detained because of that reverse onus scenario. Post 2015, we had two significant Supreme Court of
00:08:06.040 Canada decisions that came out in 2017 and 2020, Antic and Zora, which completely changed the landscape as
00:08:15.160 far as bail is concerned in our bail courts. Again, with that emphasis on the element of restraint to
00:08:23.480 release at the earliest opportunity with the least onerous conditions. And it did not matter if that person was
00:08:31.400 facing a reverse onus. It did not matter if they had a history, a record of repeated bad behavior, a record of failing to
00:08:41.160 attend court, a record for failing to comply with bail conditions. The message was to the trier, whether that
00:08:49.240 be the justice of the peace or the judge, the Supreme Court of Canada has said, this is permissible, so I must
00:08:56.520 follow that directive. That's what was happening. And to make matters worse, again, legislation from the
00:09:02.600 government, 75, and now C5, that has compounded the situation. What does it say to an individual who may
00:09:13.800 have been a victim of crime to see the person, the alleged person, whether they've been convicted or
00:09:20.120 going through the process, back on the street? Life is tough enough. Inflations were at 40-year highs.
00:09:27.000 Prices are out of control. Taxes are going up. And you're being asked to pay more. But your quality
00:09:34.280 of life is going down. What does that say to that individual? What pressure does it put onto that
00:09:40.280 person to say, why isn't my government delivering the most basic services? The number one responsibility
00:09:48.280 for any democratic government is to keep its citizens safe and to deliver on a basic promise of service.
00:10:00.440 So, leaving aside the issue of service, I know your question was too faceted. But insofar as the safety
00:10:09.400 is concerned, this government is telegraphing to the Canadians out there, to victims, to other individuals,
00:10:18.280 who may have had a relative victimized by an individual facing a crime, is that their rights
00:10:25.480 don't matter. That there is more of an emphasis on protecting and rehabilitating the offender
00:10:33.800 at the expense of Canadians. And that is where I vehemently oppose the directive of this woke
00:10:41.880 liberal government. You know, we have a victim's bill of rights. And it's been largely ignored in this
00:10:49.320 legislation and in the direction the government is going. You know, I was involved in victim services
00:10:56.360 work years back in law enforcement. And, you know, even then, before we had this sort of just a complete
00:11:07.320 dismantling, if you will, of the of the integrity of the justice system because of this liberal
00:11:12.040 legislation, victims were already hesitant. Now, I know many of them and my colleagues that I've spoken
00:11:17.960 to is, as Larry has, the victims themselves are going like, why did I bother even reporting this?
00:11:24.200 Because, you know, it seemed to have no impact. And so that's what's happening. In many cases,
00:11:30.360 I think many victims don't report their crimes, which is which is unfortunate.
00:11:37.480 Particularly in the area of of sexual assaults. I specialized in those violent prosecutions and I
00:11:45.480 would inevitably be frustrated as to how difficult it was for me to develop a rapport with victims,
00:11:54.440 knowing full well that it took an incredible amount of courage to actually report it at the first
00:12:01.640 instance, knowing that for every individual who takes that step and has that courage, there's
00:12:07.640 probably nine others that are saying, you know what, I heard about this person having a bad experience,
00:12:13.720 that person having a bad experience. I don't want to go through this. I don't want to be re-victimized
00:12:19.800 by the process. And that's disheartening for me as a member of of the Ontario Bar that there is such
00:12:27.800 a level of distrust with our judicial institutions. It's heartbreaking.
00:12:33.720 All provinces, all provinces, the premiers have signed a letter, the territorial leaders as well,
00:12:38.680 the premiers, asking for bail reform, asking for the government to take a look at this. I know you two
00:12:44.520 have been asking questions, our friend and colleague Frank Caputo and Kamloops have been asking questions
00:12:49.160 about it. The justice minister, a former law professor, basically brushes off the issue,
00:12:54.840 basically tells us Canadians have never had it so good. They're almost in some disbelief that we're
00:13:02.520 just making up the letters and the emails we're getting from constituents that are either victims
00:13:07.400 of crime or worried about the situation in their communities. You only have to look at, like I said,
00:13:14.520 the last six weeks, for example. If, you know, Mr. Lametti wants to stay in the Ottawa bubble,
00:13:23.240 he does it at the demise of Canadians. You know, add to the re-victimization. We had the Ontario
00:13:30.440 constable killed by an individual who was out on bail. We had random shootings of paramedics in Vancouver
00:13:37.720 from somebody who was out on bail. We had multiple stabbings in Mississauga from someone who was out
00:13:42.600 on bail. We've had, like the carjacking I mentioned in Winnipeg, someone who was out on bail. And those
00:13:48.200 are just a few of thousands across the country. And the fact that they want to ignore this,
00:13:56.920 you know, I hope they do it at their own political peril, to be honest with you. And,
00:14:01.400 you know, they're signaling that, well, yeah, we're going to listen. But what does that actually
00:14:06.120 mean? To me, listening in government means we're here to serve the people that elected us. And that's
00:14:12.200 all Canadians. And this government, I think, has lost their way with that. They're not the government,
00:14:17.400 you know, of the people. They should be government for the people. And that means that if you've had
00:14:23.000 some legislation that is not being properly administered in the justice system, it's your
00:14:28.440 responsibility to fix it. Because as Larry said earlier, one of the first and greatest
00:14:34.120 responsibilities of any government is to protect its citizenry. In a democracy, when you fail to do
00:14:39.720 that, people start losing trust in their government. So the justice system, the liberals have broke the
00:14:45.960 justice system. Their answer? Let's go after law-abiding firearms owners. Let's go back to the firearms
00:14:54.680 issue here quickly. We had a small, a very minor victory in terms of some of the amendments
00:15:01.880 taken away. Thankfully, the bill is still pretty horrible. Do you want to do a quick rundown on that?
00:15:07.320 Well, right now, like today, at 3.30 today, we have our, the committee has four additional meetings
00:15:14.760 as a result of the government pulling their G4, which is a definition of a prohibited firearm,
00:15:20.360 and G46, which codified many of the firearms that have been prohibited, the thousands of
00:15:25.240 firearms that have been prohibited because of the Ordering Council since the 90s and the May 20,
00:15:30.680 and now this new, new definition. So much Canadian people have, have pushed back against the government.
00:15:37.560 They, they, you know, removed those amendments from the bill. But we're, we are now starting today
00:15:44.280 in our public safety meetings talking about, about the impacts of that no longer being part of the bill.
00:15:50.440 So I don't know exactly where that'll go, but you know, let's not kid ourselves. This government has
00:15:55.720 been pretty intent on, on attacking firearms owners because that's the easiest way to give the
00:16:02.280 impression to those who don't know any better that they're doing something. It will have zero impact.
00:16:09.480 Research is out there. We have a gentleman today, Dr. Dr. Langman, who is going to be at committee. He's
00:16:14.760 an independent researcher. He's an emergency room doctor. He says there is no statistical proof anywhere
00:16:21.640 that shows that, you know, firearm prohibitions have an impact on public safety. No, they don't.
00:16:29.640 No, the messaging is directed towards their base. It has nothing to do with public safety. I've
00:16:36.760 mentioned this numerous times. Criminals will never be deterred by a ban on any weapon because these
00:16:47.160 individuals aren't taking the necessary legal steps to acquire it. They're getting it from all of the
00:16:54.920 illegal smuggling that's happening through our land borders, through our borders at our ports. They're
00:17:01.400 using creative means by drones. They will always find a way to access an illegal gun. And this
00:17:08.680 government is doing nothing to address the real root cause of the increase in gun crime in this
00:17:16.760 community across this, across this country. Let's be, let's be frank. And it's not law-abiding gun owners.
00:17:21.320 Right. That's right. Yeah. If they don't want to protect Canadians, get out of the way and let
00:17:26.440 a conservative government do the job appropriately, efficiently, and fast. Well, look at all the
00:17:32.600 countries that have put in bans or pieces of legislation that make it near impossible to get
00:17:38.200 a firearm for individual use for hunting and what have you. Like, look at Mexico. Look at Colombia.
00:17:44.360 Like, the criminals aren't listening to these laws. This is the problem. You know, the city of Chicago is
00:17:52.120 a gun-free zone. They have double-digit homicides every single weekend. Like, this is not a law-abiding
00:17:58.280 citizen problem. But you're right. It gives that false sense of security to people who don't know
00:18:02.760 any better. And I bet you a lot of people don't know that in Union Station in downtown Toronto,
00:18:07.400 the heart of the beast, there was an indoor handgun shooting range for upwards of 80 years. I bet
00:18:14.440 you nobody knows that. I wasn't aware of that. Absolutely. It closed recently. But none of those people
00:18:20.520 who went to that range were causing any of the crimes in the streets outside. Right.
00:18:27.800 You know, you're right. Thankfully, we're not like the U.S.
00:18:31.960 And our gun laws are pretty strict already. And people who want the privilege to have a PAL or an
00:18:38.760 RPAL and own a firearm are willing to go through the hoops necessary to have that privilege. I was
00:18:44.440 talking to an individual, you know, just the other day, a law enforcement official involved in firearm
00:18:52.280 investigations who said that, you know, on most streets in Canada and major cities, firearms that
00:18:59.080 you can buy legally for $800 are going in the black market for $8,000. You know, the demand has not
00:19:07.400 gone down. And what I really fear, Jamie, is we are heading towards a form of vigilante justice,
00:19:16.280 where Canadians are just getting fed up with these thugs ruling our streets, causing terror,
00:19:24.520 causing panic. They recognize the police are doing their job, and the criminal justice system is letting
00:19:31.640 them down. And our federal government is complicit in that. And that's what I really worry about.
00:19:37.960 Well, that's what I was kind of musing about one of my first questions about how the average citizen,
00:19:41.880 when they are asked to keep paying more of the services down. I had a public meeting in my community,
00:19:46.600 the first time it's ever happened, a public meeting on safety. And we live in a rural area. It's
00:19:51.000 usually safe. People hardly lock their doors to their cars or their house. Now they have to. And some
00:19:57.320 people were expressing frustration. Like, what do I do? Like, no matter, I call the police, they come
00:20:02.840 and arrest the person, if they can find them. You know, go through the swords, they're out, they're
00:20:08.280 out on the street. Like, what can I do? Like, this is the level of frustration. But we have started late.
00:20:13.000 I do apologize. We do have to get out of here. Question period's coming up momentarily. Final thoughts,
00:20:18.200 gentlemen. Do you want to start with Larry? I'll repeat my mantra. This government has continually
00:20:25.160 failed Canadians. They've done so since 2015. They're putting communities at risk by their woke,
00:20:33.160 soft on agenda ideology. This has to stop. We have a ground swelling of support. We're finally having a
00:20:41.320 discussion, your podcast. We've got premiers, we've got police chiefs, we've got police associations.
00:20:47.640 We need those constituents, who perhaps hopefully are watching this podcast from liberal held ridings,
00:20:55.400 to reach out to their MPs, to say, enough is enough. It is time to stand up for law-abiding
00:21:03.160 Canadians. Keep us safe. If you can't do the job, move over, let the next conservative government
00:21:10.280 get that job done. I agree. Glenn? Well, that's going to be pretty tough to top. I will just say, listen,
00:21:17.080 um, this liberal prime minister and his liberal government has broken much of Canada, including
00:21:25.320 our justice system. And, um, as Larry indicated, it's time for them to get out of the way and let
00:21:31.480 a conservative government fix what they've broken. Glenn Mott's member of parliament,
00:21:35.400 Cardston, medicine at Cardston Warner, also Larry Brock, member of parliament for Brantford. Brant,
00:21:40.200 we do appreciate your time, gentlemen. We appreciate your time as well on the Larry and Glenn Show,
00:21:45.880 formerly known as the Blueprint. If you like what you heard, please comment, subscribe,
00:21:51.720 share this program, tell your friends. They can download it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes,
00:21:56.280 Google Play, and Spotify. As Larry said just a few moments ago, if you know friends,
00:22:00.680 family members and liberal writings, tell them about the show, even take a few seconds to,
00:22:05.160 to listen to what these two gentlemen have said. This message is very important.
00:22:08.600 We have next week, Rachel Harder coming up to talk about internet censorship,
00:22:12.520 freedom of speech lovers. Make sure you tune in next week as well. Until then,
00:22:16.200 low taxes, less government, more freedom. That's the Blueprint.