The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - The Blueprint： Bail Reform with MP Glen Motz and MP Larry Brock

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome to the Larry Brock and Glenn Mott Show, formerly known as The Blueprint,

00:00:10.220 with new content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. We appreciate you joining

00:00:14.560 us here. We ask that you like, comment, subscribe, share this program. There's information that

00:00:19.060 you're about to hear on bail reform and C21 that you probably aren't hearing in the mainstream

00:00:23.680 media. We ask that you share that and tell your friends they can download or listen to the program

00:00:28.460 in its entirety on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play, and Spotify. You name it, it is out

00:00:34.340 there. The two gentlemen sitting next to me here, fair no introduction, although they are here quite

00:00:40.000 often. We appreciate it because it's a topic we need to keep talking about, sadly. So we have Larry

00:00:45.140 Brock from Brantford Brant, also Glenn Mott's from Medicine Hat, Cartston, Warner, in the beautiful

00:00:49.980 province of Alberta. Thank you, gentlemen, for coming on yet again. Great to be here. Thank you,

00:00:54.240 Jamie. And happy Valentine's Day, everyone. Always a pleasure. Happy Valentine's Day. Absolutely. It's

00:00:57.540 Valentine's Day edition, but I don't think there's much love coming from the Liberals on the topic

00:01:02.220 of bail reform. We have instances where we have people out on bail, violent, repeat offenders,

00:01:09.060 committing crimes yet again. We're seeing crime rates go up in this country. What is going on?

00:01:15.200 Why is there no action from this government? I know their previous piece of legislation started

00:01:20.420 the ball rolling, C75, reduced sentences for a series of crimes, and it took a few years to kind of

00:01:26.820 percolate through the system, and now we're dealing with the ramifications of that.

00:01:32.500 To be extremely blunt with all of our listeners, this was a process that this government has created

00:01:42.360 literally since 2015 to telegraph to criminals from coast to coast to coast that you can continue

00:01:51.640 and to repeat your bad behavior, and there will be limited consequences, that we will grant you bail

00:02:00.020 at the very earliest opportunity and on the most least onerous conditions, and that you can continue

00:02:07.920 to repeat that same type of behavior and continue to get bail. And then eventually, when you are about

00:02:15.400 to be sentenced, we have this liberal government introducing all types of legislation to make it

00:02:21.900 very easy for offenders to get through their sentence without learning anything. And that's one of the

00:02:29.500 biggest frustrating things for me as a former prosecutor, that one of the tenets of sentencing

00:02:36.080 in our courts is the issue regarding deterrence, is learning from your behavior. Anything that this

00:02:44.120 government has done with Bill 75 and now C5 telegraphs the complete opposite. We're making it easy for you

00:02:53.620 to continue to terrorize our communities. That's what's happening.

00:02:58.640 Now, as a former law enforcement officer, what do you think the morale is in police departments across the

00:03:04.760 country? Because I'm sure you've spoken to colleagues that you used to work with or have within your

00:03:09.920 network. You're right. They're frustrated, just like the communities are frustrated. You know,

00:03:16.680 the public sometimes blames the courts or the police services for the fact that, you know, there's

00:03:25.620 criminals being released from, you know, out again right after an offense is committed. But as Larry's

00:03:31.640 indicated, legislatively now, the police and the Crown, the courts, are required, mandated, to release

00:03:40.380 somebody at the earliest opportunity apart from detention, again with limited conditions.

00:03:48.980 And so it's having an impact on law enforcement morale, but it's also having an impact on law enforcement

00:03:54.920 responses and calls for service. Because, you know, look at the instances we've had. There's a carjacking

00:04:02.260 in Manitoba within the last month where the accused was released from the Winnipeg Police Service as per

00:04:08.160 the conditions of this legislation in 2018 and C75 that after, minutes after his release, he was involved in a

00:04:16.940 violent carjacking, released on bail. You know, we have these, there's been literally hundreds of them across the

00:04:22.720 country in the last month, some of them with the loss of life of the OPP constable in Hamilton, where every, to a

00:04:29.260 person, every accused was released on bail because that was the mandated requirement of the legislation. And so, it's

00:04:38.000 putting our communities at risk. It is putting, you know, an undue, a toll on our officers who have to respond to these calls

00:04:46.840 that, in some instances, the paperwork isn't even done yet. And that accused is out on bail, re-offending

00:04:53.380 again. So, the old adage that, you know, 80% of the crime is committed by 20% of the criminals is very, very true in the 1.00

00:05:00.180 circumstance because they're not held to account.

00:05:03.180 So, Jamie, if I could add, if I could add to that, I have, in the last several weeks, have spoken to a number of police

00:05:09.600 associations in my own riding and across this country and police chiefs. And more to, to Glenn's point,

00:05:16.280 unfortunately, we are seeing officers really second-guessing whether or not this is a career choice for them.

00:05:24.080 It's impacting on recruitment. We are having officers who are actually actively looking for office jobs because, at least at

00:05:32.820 that point, they can guarantee to their family, they're going to return at the end of the day.

00:05:36.820 Right. And they don't want to take the, the, the stress of going through a situation where they might have to

00:05:44.920 arrest a violent repeat offender and see that person walking out the door before the paperwork's

00:05:49.520 dry. That, to me, would, would probably put my stress low.

00:05:54.100 Well, and it does. And Larry and I both have history in the justice system where we remember the day where

00:05:59.080 on the street, if I was to arrest an individual for a crime, you know, and I will talk about violent

00:06:05.080 crime, but for a violent crime, that first arrest, the first instance, the onus is on me as a, as a police

00:06:12.520 department or as a police constable or the, or the crown prosecutor to, to show justice why that accused

00:06:21.300 to be retained, detained in custody. That is completely turned around. And also, if that, if that individual is released,

00:06:28.840 they're released on what was called judicial interim release on conditions. And if they committed another offense,

00:06:34.920 while they're out on those conditions, the onus is reversed, not on the crown any longer, on the police or the, or the

00:06:41.460 courts, but on the accused to show why they should be released from custody on a second offense. That no longer

00:06:48.920 happens. So it's like over and over. We call it the revolving door of justice. Right. That's exactly why this is

00:06:54.600 happening. It's happening. Liberal legislation that is failing public safety, failing Canadians. And I

00:07:01.240 appreciate Larry's comment. The whole process of a justice system is to, is to rehabilitate, but it's

00:07:09.240 also to deter. Right. And we have no deterrence any longer. And, and to follow up again, excellent points

00:07:15.560 from my colleague. Prior to 2015, when I was in the trenches, in bail court, probably three to four days a

00:07:23.080 week, when you had an individual facing a reverse onus situation. So either they've committed offense,

00:07:31.480 which by its very nature creates a reverse onus, or there already had been a release and they breached

00:07:37.720 that particular release by committing further offenses. We felt confident prior to 2015 that a reverse

00:07:45.320 onus was such a steep hill for an individual to establish that there should be another,

00:07:52.040 another opportunity for them to prove themselves in the community. We found more and more people

00:07:57.320 being detained because of that reverse onus scenario. Post 2015, we had two significant Supreme Court of

00:08:06.040 Canada decisions that came out in 2017 and 2020, Antic and Zora, which completely changed the landscape as

00:08:15.160 far as bail is concerned in our bail courts. Again, with that emphasis on the element of restraint to

00:08:23.480 release at the earliest opportunity with the least onerous conditions. And it did not matter if that person was

00:08:31.400 facing a reverse onus. It did not matter if they had a history, a record of repeated bad behavior, a record of failing to

00:08:41.160 attend court, a record for failing to comply with bail conditions. The message was to the trier, whether that

00:08:49.240 be the justice of the peace or the judge, the Supreme Court of Canada has said, this is permissible, so I must

00:08:56.520 follow that directive. That's what was happening. And to make matters worse, again, legislation from the

00:09:02.600 government, 75, and now C5, that has compounded the situation. What does it say to an individual who may

00:09:13.800 have been a victim of crime to see the person, the alleged person, whether they've been convicted or

00:09:20.120 going through the process, back on the street? Life is tough enough. Inflations were at 40-year highs.

00:09:27.000 Prices are out of control. Taxes are going up. And you're being asked to pay more. But your quality

00:09:34.280 of life is going down. What does that say to that individual? What pressure does it put onto that

00:09:40.280 person to say, why isn't my government delivering the most basic services? The number one responsibility

00:09:48.280 for any democratic government is to keep its citizens safe and to deliver on a basic promise of service.

00:10:00.440 So, leaving aside the issue of service, I know your question was too faceted. But insofar as the safety

00:10:09.400 is concerned, this government is telegraphing to the Canadians out there, to victims, to other individuals,

00:10:18.280 who may have had a relative victimized by an individual facing a crime, is that their rights

00:10:25.480 don't matter. That there is more of an emphasis on protecting and rehabilitating the offender

00:10:33.800 at the expense of Canadians. And that is where I vehemently oppose the directive of this woke

00:10:41.880 liberal government. You know, we have a victim's bill of rights. And it's been largely ignored in this

00:10:49.320 legislation and in the direction the government is going. You know, I was involved in victim services

00:10:56.360 work years back in law enforcement. And, you know, even then, before we had this sort of just a complete

00:11:07.320 dismantling, if you will, of the of the integrity of the justice system because of this liberal

00:11:12.040 legislation, victims were already hesitant. Now, I know many of them and my colleagues that I've spoken

00:11:17.960 to is, as Larry has, the victims themselves are going like, why did I bother even reporting this?

00:11:24.200 Because, you know, it seemed to have no impact. And so that's what's happening. In many cases,

00:11:30.360 I think many victims don't report their crimes, which is which is unfortunate.

00:11:37.480 Particularly in the area of of sexual assaults. I specialized in those violent prosecutions and I

00:11:45.480 would inevitably be frustrated as to how difficult it was for me to develop a rapport with victims,

00:11:54.440 knowing full well that it took an incredible amount of courage to actually report it at the first

00:12:01.640 instance, knowing that for every individual who takes that step and has that courage, there's

00:12:07.640 probably nine others that are saying, you know what, I heard about this person having a bad experience,

00:12:13.720 that person having a bad experience. I don't want to go through this. I don't want to be re-victimized

00:12:19.800 by the process. And that's disheartening for me as a member of of the Ontario Bar that there is such

00:12:27.800 a level of distrust with our judicial institutions. It's heartbreaking.

00:12:33.720 All provinces, all provinces, the premiers have signed a letter, the territorial leaders as well,

00:12:38.680 the premiers, asking for bail reform, asking for the government to take a look at this. I know you two

00:12:44.520 have been asking questions, our friend and colleague Frank Caputo and Kamloops have been asking questions

00:12:49.160 about it. The justice minister, a former law professor, basically brushes off the issue,

00:12:54.840 basically tells us Canadians have never had it so good. They're almost in some disbelief that we're

00:13:02.520 just making up the letters and the emails we're getting from constituents that are either victims

00:13:07.400 of crime or worried about the situation in their communities. You only have to look at, like I said,

00:13:14.520 the last six weeks, for example. If, you know, Mr. Lametti wants to stay in the Ottawa bubble,

00:13:23.240 he does it at the demise of Canadians. You know, add to the re-victimization. We had the Ontario

00:13:30.440 constable killed by an individual who was out on bail. We had random shootings of paramedics in Vancouver

00:13:37.720 from somebody who was out on bail. We had multiple stabbings in Mississauga from someone who was out

00:13:42.600 on bail. We've had, like the carjacking I mentioned in Winnipeg, someone who was out on bail. And those

00:13:48.200 are just a few of thousands across the country. And the fact that they want to ignore this,

00:13:56.920 you know, I hope they do it at their own political peril, to be honest with you. And,

00:14:01.400 you know, they're signaling that, well, yeah, we're going to listen. But what does that actually

00:14:06.120 mean? To me, listening in government means we're here to serve the people that elected us. And that's

00:14:12.200 all Canadians. And this government, I think, has lost their way with that. They're not the government,

00:14:17.400 you know, of the people. They should be government for the people. And that means that if you've had

00:14:23.000 some legislation that is not being properly administered in the justice system, it's your

00:14:28.440 responsibility to fix it. Because as Larry said earlier, one of the first and greatest

00:14:34.120 responsibilities of any government is to protect its citizenry. In a democracy, when you fail to do

00:14:39.720 that, people start losing trust in their government. So the justice system, the liberals have broke the

00:14:45.960 justice system. Their answer? Let's go after law-abiding firearms owners. Let's go back to the firearms

00:14:54.680 issue here quickly. We had a small, a very minor victory in terms of some of the amendments

00:15:01.880 taken away. Thankfully, the bill is still pretty horrible. Do you want to do a quick rundown on that?

00:15:07.320 Well, right now, like today, at 3.30 today, we have our, the committee has four additional meetings

00:15:14.760 as a result of the government pulling their G4, which is a definition of a prohibited firearm,

00:15:20.360 and G46, which codified many of the firearms that have been prohibited, the thousands of

00:15:25.240 firearms that have been prohibited because of the Ordering Council since the 90s and the May 20,

00:15:30.680 and now this new, new definition. So much Canadian people have, have pushed back against the government.

00:15:37.560 They, they, you know, removed those amendments from the bill. But we're, we are now starting today

00:15:44.280 in our public safety meetings talking about, about the impacts of that no longer being part of the bill.

00:15:50.440 So I don't know exactly where that'll go, but you know, let's not kid ourselves. This government has

00:15:55.720 been pretty intent on, on attacking firearms owners because that's the easiest way to give the

00:16:02.280 impression to those who don't know any better that they're doing something. It will have zero impact.

00:16:09.480 Research is out there. We have a gentleman today, Dr. Dr. Langman, who is going to be at committee. He's

00:16:14.760 an independent researcher. He's an emergency room doctor. He says there is no statistical proof anywhere

00:16:21.640 that shows that, you know, firearm prohibitions have an impact on public safety. No, they don't.

00:16:29.640 No, the messaging is directed towards their base. It has nothing to do with public safety. I've

00:16:36.760 mentioned this numerous times. Criminals will never be deterred by a ban on any weapon because these

00:16:47.160 individuals aren't taking the necessary legal steps to acquire it. They're getting it from all of the

00:16:54.920 illegal smuggling that's happening through our land borders, through our borders at our ports. They're

00:17:01.400 using creative means by drones. They will always find a way to access an illegal gun. And this

00:17:08.680 government is doing nothing to address the real root cause of the increase in gun crime in this

00:17:16.760 community across this, across this country. Let's be, let's be frank. And it's not law-abiding gun owners.

00:17:21.320 Right. That's right. Yeah. If they don't want to protect Canadians, get out of the way and let 0.66

00:17:26.440 a conservative government do the job appropriately, efficiently, and fast. Well, look at all the

00:17:32.600 countries that have put in bans or pieces of legislation that make it near impossible to get

00:17:38.200 a firearm for individual use for hunting and what have you. Like, look at Mexico. Look at Colombia.

00:17:44.360 Like, the criminals aren't listening to these laws. This is the problem. You know, the city of Chicago is

00:17:52.120 a gun-free zone. They have double-digit homicides every single weekend. Like, this is not a law-abiding

00:17:58.280 citizen problem. But you're right. It gives that false sense of security to people who don't know 0.99

00:18:02.760 any better. And I bet you a lot of people don't know that in Union Station in downtown Toronto,

00:18:07.400 the heart of the beast, there was an indoor handgun shooting range for upwards of 80 years. I bet

00:18:14.440 you nobody knows that. I wasn't aware of that. Absolutely. It closed recently. But none of those people

00:18:20.520 who went to that range were causing any of the crimes in the streets outside. Right.

00:18:27.800 You know, you're right. Thankfully, we're not like the U.S.

00:18:31.960 And our gun laws are pretty strict already. And people who want the privilege to have a PAL or an

00:18:38.760 RPAL and own a firearm are willing to go through the hoops necessary to have that privilege. I was 0.98

00:18:44.440 talking to an individual, you know, just the other day, a law enforcement official involved in firearm

00:18:52.280 investigations who said that, you know, on most streets in Canada and major cities, firearms that

00:18:59.080 you can buy legally for $800 are going in the black market for $8,000. You know, the demand has not

00:19:07.400 gone down. And what I really fear, Jamie, is we are heading towards a form of vigilante justice,

00:19:16.280 where Canadians are just getting fed up with these thugs ruling our streets, causing terror,

00:19:24.520 causing panic. They recognize the police are doing their job, and the criminal justice system is letting

00:19:31.640 them down. And our federal government is complicit in that. And that's what I really worry about.

00:19:37.960 Well, that's what I was kind of musing about one of my first questions about how the average citizen,

00:19:41.880 when they are asked to keep paying more of the services down. I had a public meeting in my community,

00:19:46.600 the first time it's ever happened, a public meeting on safety. And we live in a rural area. It's

00:19:51.000 usually safe. People hardly lock their doors to their cars or their house. Now they have to. And some

00:19:57.320 people were expressing frustration. Like, what do I do? Like, no matter, I call the police, they come

00:20:02.840 and arrest the person, if they can find them. You know, go through the swords, they're out, they're

00:20:08.280 out on the street. Like, what can I do? Like, this is the level of frustration. But we have started late.

00:20:13.000 I do apologize. We do have to get out of here. Question period's coming up momentarily. Final thoughts,

00:20:18.200 gentlemen. Do you want to start with Larry? I'll repeat my mantra. This government has continually

00:20:25.160 failed Canadians. They've done so since 2015. They're putting communities at risk by their woke,

00:20:33.160 soft on agenda ideology. This has to stop. We have a ground swelling of support. We're finally having a

00:20:41.320 discussion, your podcast. We've got premiers, we've got police chiefs, we've got police associations.

00:20:47.640 We need those constituents, who perhaps hopefully are watching this podcast from liberal held ridings,

00:20:55.400 to reach out to their MPs, to say, enough is enough. It is time to stand up for law-abiding

00:21:03.160 Canadians. Keep us safe. If you can't do the job, move over, let the next conservative government

00:21:10.280 get that job done. I agree. Glenn? Well, that's going to be pretty tough to top. I will just say, listen,

00:21:17.080 um, this liberal prime minister and his liberal government has broken much of Canada, including

00:21:25.320 our justice system. And, um, as Larry indicated, it's time for them to get out of the way and let

00:21:31.480 a conservative government fix what they've broken. Glenn Mott's member of parliament,

00:21:35.400 Cardston, medicine at Cardston Warner, also Larry Brock, member of parliament for Brantford. Brant,

00:21:40.200 we do appreciate your time, gentlemen. We appreciate your time as well on the Larry and Glenn Show,

00:21:45.880 formerly known as the Blueprint. If you like what you heard, please comment, subscribe,

00:21:51.720 share this program, tell your friends. They can download it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes,

00:21:56.280 Google Play, and Spotify. As Larry said just a few moments ago, if you know friends,

00:22:00.680 family members and liberal writings, tell them about the show, even take a few seconds to,

00:22:05.160 to listen to what these two gentlemen have said. This message is very important.

00:22:08.600 We have next week, Rachel Harder coming up to talk about internet censorship, 0.96

00:22:12.520 freedom of speech lovers. Make sure you tune in next week as well. Until then,

00:22:16.200 low taxes, less government, more freedom. That's the Blueprint.

The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - February 14, 2023

The Blueprint： Bail Reform with MP Glen Motz and MP Larry Brock

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript