The Great Gaslighting.
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Summary
In this episode, Conservative MP Michelle Rempel-Garner joins us to discuss C-11, the new internet censorship law brought in by the Trudeau government, and the work being done by Conservative MP's across the country to fight it.
Transcript
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Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprints. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your
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host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton, Kawartha Lights, Brock, with new
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content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. We ask that you like, subscribe,
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comment, and share this program. Of course, as always, if you can't listen to this program its
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entirety right this second, please download it, listen to it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes,
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Google Play, and Spotify, you name it, it is out there. Another great show lined up for you today,
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and remember, we did ask you to share this program. We do that because C-11, the internet censorship
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law brought in by the Liberal NDP government, is now in effect, and to talk about that and much,
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much more, we have Michelle Rempel-Garner, Member of Parliament, Calgary, Nose Hill. Thank you so
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much for coming. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. It's great to have you on. I'm pretty
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excited about that. Yeah, me too. All right, so internet censorship is in full effect here. We're
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dealing with the ramifications. We need to share this program, but also you're doing your own work
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as well. You're reaching out to platforms like Substack, kind of getting the conservative message
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out in different forms. Yeah, so I'm so glad you raised this. I think Canadians really need to
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understand what's happened. So just a couple days ago, there's this headline in the Canadian press
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where it says MEDA, so Facebook's parent company, that they're starting to actually prepare to block
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news as Liberal Censorship Bill C-18 prepares to pass. That's just crazy, right? But I think the message
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that we need to send to people who are listening to this is that conservative members of parliament,
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we're working, as you said, as you're doing right here, to get the message out, to talk about the
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work that we're doing in ways that the Liberals maybe haven't thought of as part of their censorship
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bills. And so yeah, I'm writing long form pieces on a platform called Substack. The link for people
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who are interested is just my name, michellerempelgarner.ca. And the reason I'm doing that is exactly what you
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said, is that we're facing these censorship bills, and we need to inform Canadians about what's
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happening here, even though, like at the Liberal Party convention this weekend, they passed this
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resolution. Basically, we had the CBC come out against the Liberal Party resolution. That's how
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bad it was, where they said that essentially they were going to censor journalists in so many
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different ways. And like, you kind of think like, oh, this is too crazy to happen, except then you look
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at C18, C11. So yes, Substack, michellerempelgarner.ca. I'm writing long form pieces about what's
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happening in Ottawa, an amazing uptake. 33,000 people have subscribed to date. And I think we need
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to have more people subscribing to your, like your show that you're doing today here. These other forms
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where we know that we can not necessarily have to apply to those rules that they want to see us
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adhere to. Absolutely. And that's why we need to subscribe to these, like the Substack,
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this program, and many others, because you are notified when things go live and new content is
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put on. And that way you're able to share in their social media network, right? That's how you grow the
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message. It's such a great point. So I think for people who are watching to understand, even before
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these bills came into play, right, Facebook, Twitter, you know, they had these algorithms that
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downvoted, upvoted, certain types of content. Now this is codified in Canadian legislation with C18,
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C11. And so it's so important to be part of things called subscriber networks, right? So we have social
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media. Subscriber networks are when you subscribe to somebody's content. And then to your point, you get
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a notification, either an email or on an app or something, that you're not just being dependent on
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a algorithm to see the content or the government, as is the case. And we laugh, but it's just, it's so
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mind-boggling. It's mind-boggling that's happening, right? So it is. It is really important to have that
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direct contact with the person that you're, you know, you're interacting with. And that's why I'm
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writing more on Substack. I think that's a fabulous idea. And just to go back quickly to what the hell was
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happening at the Liberal Convention in this past weekend, which was surprising, and many people
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brought attention to it, that there wasn't many people pushing back against this ever-moving
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censorship crawl that we get. Liberals used to stand for liberty, for crying out loud.
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I know. I think that there's this, you know, the Liberal Party, they think people are dumb,
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right? That they're too dumb to think for themselves, that they can't evaluate information,
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and that somehow the government has to have a role in this and in determining what's truth.
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You know, they go into it with these sort of, like, noble overtones, like, oh, we're protecting
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you from yourselves. But in reality, and what we've seen in practice with this government,
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because, like, you know, even the CBC are talking about how this is the most, the least
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transparent government in Canadian history. They censor these things. And this isn't a noble
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purpose. This is a direct attempt by the government to control what journalists can say, what you
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and I and people who are watching can see. And it's so important that Canadians of all political
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stripe push back against this. But, and, you know, you know, I'd ask you, I don't know, did you see
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Liberal Minister Seamus O'Regan tweets after this convention? Yes, about that. It was a freedom
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of the press day, too, or freedom of the press week, or, yeah. Nothing to see here. That's right,
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we got this. Don't worry. And literally, you know, you just see the ratio on that tweet of people
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of all political stripe being like, sure, buddy. You know, like the big wink. But it's not a laughing
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matter. This is, they really do have an agenda to hide information from the public. You see it in
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question period, they don't answer questions you ask. You can't get information out of access to
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information requests. Even our parliamentary order paper questions, these formal legislative tools,
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they completely ignore. So we have to fight back against this, because it really does erode our
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democracy. I'm so glad you're talking about this. I think it's really important. Well, I'm glad you're
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able to come. I love what you're doing on Substack, too. I think that's very important. So this endless
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gaslighting that we keep getting, right? Okay, let's talk about this question period. Anybody that's
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watched question period knows what we're talking about. The, all the scandals, SNC-Lavalin, all the way
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to what we're dealing with now, potential interference in our elections with Beijing, intimidation of a
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member of parliament's family back in Hong Kong. The gaslighting is absolutely unreal.
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Well, and to your point about what Seamus O'Regan said, basically, we're censoring the internet.
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Some of our policies are leaning in the direction of actually censoring journalists and what they
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can publish. But hey, let's celebrate Press Freedom Day. Like, it's absolutely incredible.
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It's, I love that term, because it's so accurate gaslighting. That's actually what they do,
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right? Like, you'll get up in the House of Commons, ask a question, and then they try to deflect with
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some sort of lie about whoever's asking the question or whatever, because they just want
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to, you know, change the channel because they've usually messed up so badly. The problem with this,
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it's really serious. Like, this isn't a game. First of all, it erodes trust in public institutions,
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right? Like, anybody, no matter how they vote, would look at that behavior and go, what do they
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have to hide? And, you know, at a time when we're seeing so much instability, unaffordability, like,
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where Canadians do need to band together and trust, you've got this government that's doing
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everything to divide Canadians and to... Again.
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And it's, that's exactly what happens. And these are, you know, as you talked about,
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this foreign interference issue, these have major ramifications on Canada's pluralism,
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on our unity as a country, and they transcend partisanship. And for them to just, again,
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gaslight, it's such an accurate term. I think it just, it's so dangerous. And certainly, I know our
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party, you know, all of our colleagues, they've been working so hard to hold the government to
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account. And again, it's hard with the Liberal NDP coalition, but, you know, it still is a noble
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and important cause for us to fight, and we are making progress.
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Did you ever think there'd be a point in Canada, in Canada, when members of Parliament doing their
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work on the floor of the House of Commons, their most important task is voting on behalf of their
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constituents, potentially being threatened with family living elsewhere, in this case of Michael
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Chong, back in Hong Kong, the government knowing about it, and not actually doing anything about
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it, to maybe warn the individual that this is potentially going on. That, in Canada.
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Like, like, how did you feel when you heard that? Because, like, I was just, I was speechless,
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but then I got angry. Yeah. Because you're right, it's supposed to be non-partisan. We're all supposed
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to be in that House of Commons working together. We may not always agree, but at the same time,
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we're elected to do the job of representing our constituents, and to be potentially facing
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intimidation from foreign governments or threats to your family back home, it's hard to do your
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job when you've got that on the back of your mind, too. You know, I love that, I think you and I
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shared the same reaction, anger. So, I think the first story that came out about this was about a
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week and a half ago. It's this really long, detailed article by Bob Fyfe and Steve Chase of the
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Globe and Mail, which, ironically, they wouldn't have been able to publish if the amendment that
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the Liberals proposed this last weekend was in place. That's a very good point. But I'll just
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share, like, a very personal story about this. So, I read that article and embedded in it was a line
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that said that the Calgary Consulate of the government in Beijing had tried to influence a
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prominent Calgary MP through a third party, and it was just one line like that, and my first response
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was, is that me? Did this happen to me? How would I know? Who would it have been? And then you start
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going through in your head, like, you know, conversations that you have with people. And in
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that moment, I felt anger, and I felt shame, because I'm having to wonder about people that I've
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interacted with that are Canadian citizens, that are part of my community. And I don't think that
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that's been talked enough about, is the fact that the Liberals not being on top of this, ignoring it,
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pretending it's not a problem, being weak on it. It actually, like, we are a diverse country.
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My writing, you know, 20% of my community identify with Chinese heritage. To not have things like a
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foreign agent registry, where there's rules, like corporate lobbying, on how people can engage
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with legislators, what that does is it leads to, like, a witch hunt, right? And it actually destroys
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our pluralism. It actually erodes that trust we have within our community, that you and I are
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entrusted to protect. And for the Liberals to ignore that, and then purport to stand for Canadian unity,
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for diversity, it's actually disgusting. And I feel, I feel ashamed that, like, in that moment,
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I had, like, that thought, like, who did I talk to? Was it me? All these things.
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And that's exactly what our foes abroad want us to do. That's what they want us to do, is they want
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us to have this divisive... Questioning each other, not trusting. Yeah, yeah. Of course, because when
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we're divided, we're not united. We're not focused on our sovereignty. We're not focused on advancing
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our interests as a country. And for the Liberals to say, no, they voted against a motion yesterday,
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that foreign agent registry, shameful. Absolutely shameful. Shameful.
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So, you know, I think it's just going to be so important for Canadians to unite around this
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issue, regardless of how people vote. They need to be holding their government to account. And
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frankly, I think the Liberal members, you know, they lost an opportunity this weekend at their
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convention to hold their leader to account, to demand better within their party. So, you know,
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a really, I think, a sobering week. Absolutely. And they finally, thankfully, the government
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finally kicked out that diplomat, kind of tied into all of this. Finally, after years, potentially
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two years of knowing about this, finally, I want to get your reaction. I've asked a few people about
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this, but I want to get your reaction because you've served in cabinet under Harper. Reverse the
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headline for a second. Harper knew two years ago about Chinese interference. Potentially nine Liberal
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seats were lost because of Chinese interference. A Liberal member of Parliament, their family was
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threatened elsewhere because of potential interference from another country, Beijing. What do you think
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the reaction would be? You know, Jamie, I hope that the reaction, no matter what, would be equal.
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Well, that's the way it's supposed to be. That's why I wanted to ask you. That's the way it's supposed to be.
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It should be because, like, again, like, this isn't, you know, we're always going to have our partisan
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fights in the House and disagreements about policy. But our country, we lose our sovereignty when we lose
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that integrity in our democratic institutions. And that's really what's at stake here. You know,
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I don't, the government has been through seven foreign ministers. I think seven, right?
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They don't have a consistent foreign policy. You had Justin Trudeau coming out, you know,
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time and time again saying that, you know, he can't, there is no national identity. We do have a national
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identity as Canadians. We are a sovereign nation where, you know, we're united in our pluralism.
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We're united in so many different things. But the fact that he can't even muster the courage to say
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we don't have a national identity, seven foreign ministers, how, how, of course, we can't be
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expected. He can't be expected to defend any of those things. So yeah, like, I love the question.
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What would the reaction be? It, you know, this should be bigger than politics.
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And this was a, actually, like just speaking as a pundit, this was a moment for him as a leader
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to rise to the occasion. And instead, he just, like when we roofed, like flopped, like caved. And
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I think, I think it was actually a moment where a lot of liberals, you could see it in, did you see
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their back bench? Yeah, they, they didn't look up very much. They were, they weren't clapping.
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They weren't energized. So I hope they find their, their backbones. Yeah, that would be kind of nice.
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That's kind of nice. One thing I also want to talk about, because I know time is getting short,
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is your speech, I guess, last week in the House of Commons. You're talking about the affordability
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issue, something everyone is talking about. It's hitting in every quarter of the country. I don't
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care where you live. You're talking about paying more and getting less, which I think is a theme I
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think is, is coming home to roost for this, for this government. The bureaucracy has gotten bigger,
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the results are getting slower. And yet people are being asked to pay even more to subsidize
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all of this. Yeah. Where's the value for money? It's a great question, right? Like, I think,
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you know, if you reached across our caucus, and you talked to people,
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the one thing that really unifies us is a care for Canadians, and like an understanding that like,
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they're going through some really trying times with regard to cost of living, rent, mortgages,
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paying for groceries, fuel. And where the Liberals are at on that issue is they come out and they're
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announcing spending, like, well, we're spending all of these extra tax dollars. We're spending more.
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That's the measure for success. We're spending more. But yet, Canadians are getting less service.
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And the same thing is happening in their homes, right? You know, people are spending more
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and getting less. And that stress, that anxiety from that, from that, like, decreasing ability to
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make ends meet. I like, you know, wages are increasing. People aren't like, like, the cost of
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housing isn't decreasing. It's, it's really hard. I mean, in my community, I have seen
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so many people, like, they're just right on the edge, Jamie, I'm sure it is the same with you,
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like, can barely afford to pay the mortgage. You know, I was talking to someone who's pretty close
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to me about friends that they have that, you know, they just managed to buy a house, but like,
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they can't go out, like, they went to a friend's birthday party and like, couldn't even afford to buy a
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soda. You know, and I, that hits home. Like, that's the reality for many Canadians. And I just,
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this liberal fallacy that we should be paying more to get less, and somehow be excited, like,
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excited, like, oh, we're spending more. Paying more taxes is moral. Yeah. I don't think they
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understand that anxiety. And you know, I think the one thing that has really united us as a caucus is
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that, that feeling, like, understanding that feeling, and then trying to really push back
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against it with positive policies, like, you know, some of the housing affordability policies we've
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put forward, skilled trades training, I could go on and on. But we've got a lot of work to do.
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Well, this government decries people's wealth, and you know, we want everyone to obviously do the
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best they can and have equal opportunity. But they're the ones that always want all the wealth,
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right, to squander it away. And we saw that. They have no problem spending, what, billions on
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McKinsey and these guys. Absolutely. Yeah. The nice cocktail parties. Nice. Absolutely. They love
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being seen at the reward ceremony. The vacations. They went to New York City to hang with Hugh Jackman
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and others. Who doesn't want to be with Wolverine on a free vacation? It's kind of cool. Right. In New York
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City. But that's not their job. That's not your job. Absolutely. But to the same point, to your neck of
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the woods has been decimated under this, this liberal government. We have company, countries like Japan
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and Germany that are coming to Canada asking for energy and then being told there's no
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business case. That's crazy. Like we had the German government like in Canada didn't make
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any news. Barely, yeah. Like, like, what did we get out of that? We had a state visit from
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one of the world's biggest economies. Japanese prime minister was here. That's like everyone's
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what? Yeah. It's crazy. Right? Crazy. And then they go to, I think it was Japan, or no, sorry,
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Germany went to Qatar and had a multi-billion dollar contract to supply that energy. So
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another way to lower prices is to add supply. Yep. Add supply. And then we have hindered our
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ability to do just that. There's just, you know, it's time for a change. Like, I think,
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you know, we've gone through so many elections. You and I have gone through a lot of elections
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together. And this one is just so, it's for all the marbles. You know, Trudeau says he's going to
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run again. He does not deserve to cover in again. It's time for a change. I always give the guests
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the last word, but it's hard to really come back from that. But the floor is yours if you can top
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that. That was pretty good. Just thanks for having me, Jamie. Thanks for all the work you do to get
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the work out. And to those who are listening today, thanks to them for listening and being open to
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hearing beyond what the liberals would have them hear through their censorship bills.
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Always great to have you here. Thanks. Michelle Rimpel-Garner, member of Parliament for Calgary
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Nose Hill. We appreciate her time. We appreciate your time as well. Please, as Michelle just mentioned,
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as we just mentioned, like, comment, and subscribe, and share this program. Of course,
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Remember, tell your friends about it because there's new content every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m.
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Eastern Time. Until next week, we say remember, it's low taxes, less government, more freedom.