The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - The Situation in Ukraine

00:00:00.000 I'm your host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton-Kaworth-O-Lake-Sprock

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00:00:26.200 Yeah. As of course, as you might not always get the opportunity to listen or watch the entire program right this second,

00:00:32.800 download it later on, listen to it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, you name it, it is out there.

00:00:39.200 All right, let's get to our guests.

00:00:40.740 We have James Bazan, he's a friend of the show, been on before, the Member of Parliament for Selkirk-Interlake-Eastman,

00:00:46.160 also the Shadow Minister for Ethics.

00:00:48.500 And beside him, we have Alex Ruff, the Member of Parliament for Grey Bruce Owensound in the beautiful province of Ontario.

00:00:55.000 Two Ontarians here.

00:00:56.200 So, James, let's start with you.

00:00:58.200 You spoke at the emergency debates yesterday in the House of Commons regarding the situation in Ukraine.

00:01:03.740 And as we like to remind, this is a live show.

00:01:06.580 So if you are listening to it later on past March 1st, the information might be changing after the broadcast.

00:01:11.600 So could you, you spoke at the rally in Toronto as well.

00:01:14.800 Could you give us a brief overview of basically what's going on on the ground?

00:01:19.160 What are you seeing and what are you hearing?

00:01:20.340 So as someone of Ukrainian heritage and someone that has been very involved in Ukraine, been there many times for election observation missions,

00:01:28.960 been over there as part of the Harper government.

00:01:32.140 After the invasion of Crimea and the legal annexation and occupation that is still happening today in Crimea and the war that Putin and his proxies were waging in the west or the east of Ukraine, in Donbass,

00:01:46.820 you know, I was part of the group of the Conservative government that went over and actually delivered military assistance to Ukraine.

00:01:56.620 You know, it was under Harper that we started Operation Unifar to train Ukrainian soldiers, trained over 34,000 that liberals have continued on Operation Unifar and they did an amazing job in training the soldiers because we're seeing the results of that now is that one of the reasons Ukraine has been able to repel 0.89

00:02:13.120 the initial phases of this Russian invasion from the north and from the south and from the east is because of the training that Canada and our allies have done.

00:02:21.320 You know, the UK, the Americans, the Poles and other NATO allies had been in Ukraine for the last eight years, training up 100,000 plus military members in Ukraine.

00:02:32.640 You know, Vladimir Putin is the only person here that's responsible for the war that's happening in Ukraine.

00:02:38.900 Let's never forget this. And he is, you know, trying to revise history.

00:02:45.040 He is spewing toxic rhetoric and the whole idea that he wants to demilitarize and denazify Ukraine is all part of this propaganda machine.

00:02:58.040 You've got to remember that the heroic actions that were seen in Ukraine and the leadership that were seen by President Zelensky. 0.96

00:03:05.500 You've got to remember, Zelensky is of Jewish heritage and he's out there, you know, the whole idea that somebody like President Zelensky, he was a Nazi, is ridiculous. 0.66

00:03:17.980 You know, and Ukraine lived through the Holocaust. Some of the biggest war graves are, from the Holocaust, are in Ukraine.

00:03:25.340 I mean, 28,000 at Babon Yard, just north of Kiev. I've been there with Prime Minister Harper.

00:03:30.020 So, you know, Ukraine is fighting violently.

00:03:33.740 And Putin thought when they marched across the border that the Ukrainians would be there, you know, thanks for liberating us.

00:03:39.480 And that's not the case.

00:03:40.440 And you look at the war that's being waged on Kharkiv, the second largest city in Ukraine.

00:03:46.000 It's in the east. I've been there. I've been up to the border crossing at Belograd, where all the Russian troops and tanks have been rolling across towards Kharkiv.

00:03:56.120 Russian-speaking, but very much patriotic Ukrainians.

00:03:59.620 I've seen it personally in marches and rallies that I participated in, in Kharkiv when I was last there.

00:04:05.880 And they are fighting hard. Every citizen that can fight is fighting.

00:04:11.840 They've picked up firearms and sidearms, and they are out there defending the motherland.

00:04:18.040 And so, it's amazing and inspiring to watch them rally, but it's heartbreaking to see the devastation.

00:04:27.800 And news last night that, you know, again, Putin is now definitely a war criminal.

00:04:33.080 He's violating the Geneva Convention. They're using carpet bombs.

00:04:37.820 They used a thermobaric warhead last night, a number of media reporting on it.

00:04:45.840 You know, this is a major escalation in the type of weapons that he's prepared to use, when at all costs.

00:04:51.380 And he doesn't care about the civilian losses and collateral damage.

00:04:54.720 That's why Canada and our allies have to do more.

00:04:57.140 This is a major turning point in modern history, and we'll be judged for what we do.

00:05:05.840 It's time to be Chamberlain.

00:05:07.760 We don't want to be Chamberlain.

00:05:09.460 We want to be Churchill, and we need that type of leadership right now.

00:05:13.100 So, I'm very glad to see countries that have been sitting on the fence and get involved.

00:05:17.500 You know, since 2018, we have been calling us Conservatives for the provision of lethal defensive weapons to Ukraine, including anti-tank missiles.

00:05:25.720 It's my understanding that 100 Carl Gustavs that were sitting in storage, that the government are actually delivering those today.

00:05:33.460 So, I do thank the government of Canada for finally listening and doing it, because Ukraine needs them now.

00:05:38.140 I'm impressed that non-NATO partners like Sweden have stepped up, who've always been very impartial to NATO versus the Russian Federation, the Moscow sphere of influence.

00:05:52.220 But they sent in 5,000 anti-tank weapons, as well as defensive aid, like hard helmets and flat jackets and Kevlar wear,

00:06:04.840 so that they can protect themselves when they're out in the battlefield.

00:06:07.400 So, and it's about not just supplying the armed forces of Ukraine with weapons and ammunition.

00:06:13.560 It's about supplying the citizen soldiers that have stepped up and formed militia groups now and are the ones that are doing the street fighting.

00:06:19.740 I want to get into the sanctions and what the world's doing in just a second.

00:06:22.680 But first, I want to bring in Alex to talk about the military side.

00:06:25.680 Alex is a veteran, a colonel in the Canadian Armed Forces, served over many decades as a colonel and served in Afghanistan, your most recent deployment.

00:06:34.500 What are you seeing militarily?

00:06:36.320 I think at the beginning we saw some breakdowns in how the Russians were operating, how they're invading. 0.86

00:06:41.500 We saw tanks running out of gas on the side.

00:06:43.740 It's my understanding that's been fixed on the Russian side.

00:06:46.800 But what are you seeing?

00:06:47.480 What's your analysis?

00:06:48.540 Well, I'll correct you a little bit.

00:06:49.820 My latest deployment was Iraq.

00:06:51.440 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:06:52.140 I was in Iraq just before I jumped into federal politics.

00:06:54.900 And I was at the Canadian Joint Operations Command when we were first standing up Op Unifier and putting together such a terrific mission to really create the foundation for what's going on in Ukraine right now on top of other NATO allies and other partners that have been helping the Ukrainians so that they are prepared as much as they can be against this horrendous act by President Putin and Russia.

00:07:20.900 So on the military side of the thing, I think there's been a lot of, dare I say, miscalculations on the strategic side by everybody.

00:07:29.980 You know, I think Putin thought he could waltz right in and, as James was just hinting at, basically walk in and be given a hero's welcome and install his puppet sort of government that would be sympathetic to the Russian regime.

00:07:46.040 And that didn't happen.

00:07:47.160 It didn't happen really as soon as he crossed the border.

00:07:49.220 On the flip side, I actually think, you know, and unfortunately I don't have access to all that same intelligence and reporting, but the fact that the West didn't call the bluff of President Putin and that we left, I think that basically signaled in some ways to Putin that, hey, we're not going to interfere in this.

00:08:10.380 And he thought he could get this cakewalk to come straight into Kiev and install that.

00:08:16.020 Obviously, I think it was all based on the assumption by the West that, look, he's serious about coming.

00:08:23.140 All the indications were that he was coming.

00:08:24.740 I thought, you know, I would absolutely put money.

00:08:27.120 He had provided all the indications he was going to go into these eastern provinces or whatever they're called, you know, to take that area.

00:08:35.840 But I think if we would have still had Western boots on the ground, it would have changed the calculus of potentially him dropping these bombs and doing these atrocious acts that are in contravention of the Geneva Convention against the civilians had we been there and showing that solidarity.

00:08:52.720 Now, at the same time, the calculus, and we're seeing this, I think, in some of Putin's own actions, his own soldiers from a military perspective aren't performing to the same standard that he is because I think they're a lot smarter nowadays.

00:09:05.720 And I think all militaries around the globe, the soldiers have access to a lot more and they realize that, whoa, what are we doing going in and taking a, you know, an independent country that realistically never posed a strategic or a tactical or a military threat to Russia ever.

00:09:24.540 This is all about politics and influence, energy, and more, and I think really Putin's own political survival.

00:09:34.880 So, look, kudos to the Russian people that are protesting in the streets against Putin, but really the kudos go to the Ukrainian people more than anything.

00:09:45.240 On the logistics side, 100 percent, it's hard to judge.

00:09:48.020 Some of the snippets that we see in the news are just one snapshot at any one time of a military action.

00:09:52.960 So, obviously, the logistics does draw, you know, does drive military conflict and military operations.

00:09:59.600 So, some of those things that we saw, you know, are, you know, aren't shocking, but at the same time, let's not underestimate, Russia can easily win this conflict from a strictly military standpoint, but it's how much are they willing to pay.

00:10:16.020 And kudos, as James clearly highlighted to the president and, you know, their ability to stand up and fight back and not just roll over.

00:10:28.040 And they're going to make this, they're standing up for freedom.

00:10:32.180 And, you know, it has galvanized the West and allies and nontraditional allies to step forward, reinforce the NATO borders, and make sure Putin understands what, you know, hey, this is not acceptable and the sanctions and everything.

00:10:50.280 And I really think the next 48 hours are going to be vital to see just how far Putin is willing to take the atrocities and what political price he's willing to pay to get his military victory, because I don't think he's going to get the long-term strategic victory.

00:11:06.960 So, it's the people, though, that are the real ones that are paying the price are the Ukrainian people themselves. 1.00

00:11:12.760 And all of the free world owes everything we possibly can to support Ukraine.

00:11:18.780 Let's talk about the political.

00:11:19.800 Just to follow up on that, because I think the one interesting thing is, you know, got to remember that, you know, as Alex was saying, the Russian soldiers, you know, have access to social media.

00:11:30.720 They see in Russia right now, you know, over several thousand Russians have been arrested for protesting against the war, for being out there, you know, fighting for peace.

00:11:41.520 And so they see that.

00:11:43.820 And you've got to remember, they're fighting for a tyrannical death spot with Vladimir Putin, where the people of Ukraine, and you've got to remember, Ukraine has already survived one genocide, the Holodomor.

00:11:54.260 And so, on top of trying to protect their Ukrainian nationalism, trying to protect the Ukrainian culture, they're protecting the homeland.

00:12:00.780 They're inspired by the leadership of President Zelenskyy and the politicians that are still sitting in their parliament right now, in the Vodok-Norada.

00:12:09.420 And you see that, you know, they're not only trying to protect their families and their communities, they're trying to protect Ukraine itself.

00:12:18.100 And that speaks volumes to how hard they're willing to fight and why, you know, Putin's only acceptance and so-called diplomacy is he wants to surrender and he wants to remove the entire government so he can install his puppet regime.

00:12:31.620 And Ukrainians will never accept that. 0.99

00:12:33.820 All right, let's talk about quickly the political price, and I want to go into kind of energy independence.

00:12:37.800 We only have a few minutes left.

00:12:39.700 What political price is Putin willing to see right now?

00:12:42.660 He's almost isolated throughout the world.

00:12:45.440 You can't trade Russian stocks.

00:12:47.640 You can't, like, they're basically nothing that Russia can do at this point to grow their economy.

00:12:53.460 Their currency is tanking.

00:12:55.720 What is the political price?

00:12:58.300 What is the price here?

00:12:59.140 So it's going to be huge.

00:13:00.640 And the whole goal right now is to break Russia's financial back. 0.71

00:13:06.360 And there's no question that the hard sanctions that have come forward, as well as using SWIFT to ban them from using it for financial transactions

00:13:17.700 and speaking to other financial institutions around the world, is crushing Putin directly, his oligarchs, his government,

00:13:26.560 especially when the central bank has been sanctioned and banned from SWIFT.

00:13:32.140 And ultimately, it will hurt their economy.

00:13:35.760 And, you know, decisions by Europe to stop Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline to Germany is another blow to their economy.

00:13:44.100 You've got to remember, 40% of Russia's economy is based around oil and gas.

00:13:49.560 And if they can't sell it to the world, they're going to go bankrupt pretty quick.

00:13:53.200 And we've got to remember, the Soviet Union failed, not because of, well, there's a lot of great, great diplomas that have come in place,

00:13:59.240 but they went bankrupt.

00:14:00.280 And if we bankrupt Putin's war machine, this war is done.

00:14:03.900 The more that we also can do in isolating him on the Global Four, whether it's the UN, the OSCE, or the G20,

00:14:14.000 you know, it does hurt him because he's a very proud, you know, narcissistic individual.

00:14:19.020 And so he wants to be, you know, at all these events where he can glad hand and backslap.

00:14:23.520 And I'll never forget, you know, Prime Minister Stephen Harper, you know, when they invited Crimea in,

00:14:28.960 he led the charge to kick Russia out of the G8, make it back to the G7. 0.95

00:14:33.260 And it was Harper at the G20 who told Putin to his face, he says, get out of Ukraine.

00:14:39.400 And if the world had followed some of those strong recommendations that were coming from Stephen Harper at the time,

00:14:45.660 including NATO membership for Ukraine, we wouldn't be having this discussion today.

00:14:51.080 Because for whatever reason, Putin has been provoked, and he definitely is in trouble politically at home.

00:14:58.000 Too many Russians are seeing what freedom really looks like, 0.93

00:15:00.720 and what true democracy can do for a country and for individual rights and freedoms.

00:15:06.240 And so that's why he figures Ukraine is too close to home,

00:15:11.340 and he can't sit back and allow them to continue to aspire to be members of the European Union,

00:15:17.960 members of NATO, and really have a truly open, transparent, and free country.

00:15:23.200 Let's talk quickly about energy independence.

00:15:25.600 Between 2001 and 2021, Canada imported about $13.1 billion of Russian oil.

00:15:31.660 We cancelled the Energy East by we.

00:15:33.260 The government of Canada, the Liberals, cancelled because of increased regulations,

00:15:37.680 moving goalposts to the Energy East pipeline,

00:15:39.480 which would have allowed Alberta energy to get to New Brunswick and then to the European market.

00:15:43.560 Even if we said, OK, let's cut off the Nord Stream 2.

00:15:46.840 Let's stop the funding of the Russian oil machine.

00:15:50.440 We couldn't get our product as Canadians to the European market,

00:15:53.660 even if we wanted to at this point.

00:15:55.860 Keystone XL has been cancelled because of Joe Biden, the president, who cancelled that.

00:16:00.580 Now it's back on the table again.

00:16:01.980 It was Joe Biden who released the sanctions to finish off construction Nord Stream 2,

00:16:07.400 and now he's put the sanctions back on.

00:16:08.940 So this is the whole conversation, why we've been pushing it for so many years,

00:16:12.640 why energy independence is so important and why we should be promoting Canadian energy.

00:16:18.740 Look, I can't disagree with that,

00:16:20.580 and both of you have more experience on this from the political standpoint.

00:16:24.020 But it's that lack of foresight and lack of understanding in coming up with a plan.

00:16:29.440 You know, this government's very good at making short-term decisions without thinking the long-term consequences out,

00:16:36.240 and how it's going to benefit not only Canada, but the world.

00:16:39.780 We have the most environmental sustainable oil and gas in the world.

00:16:45.540 We can be doing our part to not only reduce emissions,

00:16:50.400 but it will actually reduce emissions by us producing more and transporting more.

00:16:54.760 We have human rights codes for how we produce and manufacture and refine our products,

00:17:01.320 and I think that would do wonders.

00:17:02.940 But more importantly, it would take away that economic support

00:17:07.740 that so many of these regimes around the globe, and in particular Russia, as James laid out, is dependent upon.

00:17:12.940 Without that, they go bankrupt.

00:17:15.300 They have to figure out how they can play ball.

00:17:18.280 Exactly.

00:17:19.060 We're just over time, but I always give the guests the last word.

00:17:22.180 So, James, the floor is yours.

00:17:23.700 I think in the debate that we saw last night, and the tone in the House,

00:17:29.360 and the tone of everyone that's been speaking out publicly in support of Ukraine,

00:17:34.320 it just shows that we stand with Ukraine,

00:17:37.500 that us as parliamentarians across partner lines are united in standing with Ukraine.

00:17:41.740 I think all of us realize that this is a turning point,

00:17:46.180 and it's just not a battle for Ukraine.

00:17:48.600 This is a battle for our democratic values.

00:17:50.680 This is a battle for human rights.

00:17:51.880 This is a battle for freedom.

00:17:53.700 And, you know, unfortunately, Ukraine is paying the price.

00:18:01.260 They're the tip of the spear.

00:18:02.540 They're on the front lines, and they're in our thoughts and prayers through all this.

00:18:07.700 And all of us will continue to be united and stand with Ukraine.

00:18:12.500 Yeah, final word there, Jamie, is just, yeah, everybody, please keep your thoughts and prayers for Ukraine.

00:18:18.220 It's volatile right now, and we do not want Putin to take the next step in escalation, nor any country.

00:18:26.620 And at the same time, it's a bit of a plug for Canadian Armed Forces and for your listeners and watchers out there.

00:18:33.780 For those Canadians that are interested in joining the Canadian Armed Forces, they need you.

00:18:38.680 The world's a volatile place, and I wish I could give you optimistic news that it's going to get better.

00:18:43.940 The world is going to be volatile for a while, and we need good Canadians, men, women, to join and support our military,

00:18:51.220 because right now there's countries like Ukraine, countries like Afghanistan, countries all over the world that need Canadian help.

00:18:58.580 Well, you know, there's so many questions I wanted to ask you, too.

00:19:01.080 I wanted to segue into procurement.

00:19:03.460 We still have planes, situations, or Navy.

00:19:05.900 IDF-35.

00:19:06.780 We have so many.

00:19:08.080 Maybe we'll get you guys back on because I wanted to ask you all about that.

00:19:11.860 James, former defense critic, Alex being in the Canadian Armed Forces, I would love to hear your perspective, but we are way over time.

00:19:17.800 So we do appreciate it.

00:19:19.040 James Bazan, member of parliament for Selkirk Interlake Eastman in the beautiful province of Manitoba.

00:19:23.260 The ethics critic, also Alex Ruff, the MP for Bruce Gray Owen Sound, and also a proud veteran of our Canadian Armed Forces.

00:19:30.680 We thank him and many others for their service.

00:19:32.920 If you liked what you saw, if you liked what you heard, please like, comment, subscribe, share this program.

00:19:37.080 We have new content for you every single Tuesday.

00:19:39.640 We do appreciate that.

00:19:40.540 If you can't, of course, watch or listen to it right now.

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00:19:46.120 We will be back next week.

00:19:47.820 We hope you join us.

00:19:48.640 Remember, low taxes, less government, more freedom.

00:19:51.060 That's the blueprint.

The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - March 01, 2022

The Situation in Ukraine

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