The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprints. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm

00:00:09.300 your host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton. Thank you so much once again

00:00:14.100 for joining us. We have a lot to talk about. In fact, the budget is coming up next week,

00:00:19.200 the first one in two years, believe it or not. So we'd like to keep an eye on what is

00:00:23.500 going on and how the government is planning to spend those dollars. But before we get

00:00:28.380 to our guest, we need you to like, comment, subscribe, share this program, help us push

00:00:33.640 back against the ever-moving Liberal agenda. Maybe there is someone in your social media

00:00:37.460 network that might be open to hearing the Conservative message but might not be getting

00:00:41.420 that because of the mainstream media. So this is how we do it. This is how we ensure Aaron O'Toole

00:00:46.300 is the next Prime Minister of Canada. And of course, if you can't listen to the whole thing right now,

00:00:51.320 you can download it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, you name it,

00:00:55.560 it is out there. So without further hesitation, let's get to our guest, Pat Kelly, the Member

00:01:00.240 of Parliament for Calgary, Rocky Ridge. He's also the Shadow Minister for Small Business

00:01:05.640 and Western Economic Diversification. Welcome, Pat. You're a good friend of the show.

00:01:10.280 Well, thanks. Thanks for having me again, Jamie. Always a pleasure to be on The Blueprint.

00:01:14.120 So the first budget in two years coming up. This is quite the surprise and quite the pleasure

00:01:19.760 for members of Parliament whose job it is to keep an eye on the government and what they're

00:01:23.960 spending taxpayer dollars on. Yeah, it's quite remarkable that there hasn't been a budget

00:01:29.920 since March of 2019. Think of what's happened since then. I mean, not only have we been through,

00:01:37.220 you know, we've been in a pandemic now for 13 months. And so this last budget was way before

00:01:45.140 even the last election and we have yet to see this government's fiscal plan through a budget. I mean,

00:01:55.620 yeah, we have, they table the estimates, we vote on them and expenditures are authorized,

00:02:00.600 but there's no substitute for a budget to actually signal to Canadians and to signal to markets the

00:02:06.920 direction of the country. So yes, we're looking forward to seeing a budget. And there's just

00:02:15.780 really no explanation for why it took so long to table one. Every other jurisdiction in both within

00:02:22.220 Canada and around the world managed to table budgets during the pandemic.

00:02:27.060 Even my home province of Ontario tabled two budgets during the pandemic. So the federal government,

00:02:32.420 as we know, the We Charity scandal and a whole bunch of other things that kind of were muddled

00:02:37.660 in with all the ongoings of the pandemic got, it really, I don't think got the spotlight it should

00:02:45.640 have because those were dollars that were just going out at the request and recommendation of the

00:02:51.140 executive branch and really didn't get, as far as I'm concerned, the thorough look over through the

00:02:58.460 legislative branch. Well, that's, that's, that's just yet we, during that period, when, when the,

00:03:06.340 the, the Canada student grant program was when, when that program was funded through a sole sourced

00:03:15.020 contract to we that was, that was what happened at a time when parliament was very much reduced from

00:03:21.820 its proper function. We weren't, we weren't sitting regularly, the opposition MPs and even,

00:03:28.400 government backbench MPs didn't have the regular tools of government scrutiny at that time. So,

00:03:34.800 so, and, and then, but when we caught on to what was really going on and committee inquiries were

00:03:44.860 held, that's when the government actually prorogued the house and dissolved the, the committees that

00:03:48.860 were investigating. It's, it's sort of liberal self-dealing through that, through that grant.

00:03:57.020 Now, for, for those watching and listening that want a, a more in-depth look at what the We

00:04:04.700 Charity scandal was about and what the opposition has been doing to try to expose that, there's some

00:04:09.420 great previous episodes with Michael Barrett, the shadow minister for ethics. So, if you wanted to

00:04:13.840 download that and listen to that, a great in-depth discussion on the nitty-gritty of that. But

00:04:18.980 in terms of the budget, nobody really knows what's in the budget except for the prime minister,

00:04:23.740 the finance minister and, and, and within people, with people within the department. Lots of

00:04:28.840 speculation though. And if you go on speculation and, and the previous history and what this

00:04:34.740 government is doing, a lot of their spending is just on a whole bunch of big pie in the sky

00:04:41.060 dreams that they hope to, to achieve, but yet not actually solving problems and not actually

00:04:47.100 looking at how to grow the economy to, to deal with getting people back to work.

00:04:52.880 Yeah. You know, we, we need an employment-based economy. We need to get people back to work

00:04:57.180 and you know, the, the, the health crisis and the economic crisis are completely intertwined.

00:05:04.200 We see other jurisdictions, other parts of the world that are reopening their economies because

00:05:09.800 they are, uh, uh, uh, making significant progress toward immunized populations. Whereas we are not

00:05:17.120 in Canada, uh, so that the lack of, um, of a, uh, uh, of an adequate response to the health crisis is

00:05:24.460 prolonging the economic crisis. And, uh, we we've got to get a path to a safe and permanent, uh, reopening

00:05:32.700 of the economy so that we can get people back to work. It's not, this is not the time for, uh, utopian,

00:05:39.580 uh, experiments. Um, I don't really see among Canadians an appetite for, um, you know, grand

00:05:50.520 new reinventions of the economy. People just want to get back to normal. They want to get their jobs

00:05:54.480 back and, um, and we need to get the, our public finances under control. So, so what I would, what

00:06:01.200 I am looking for in this budget, what I hope to see is a plan for a safe, permanently reopened economy.

00:06:08.320 And, uh, uh, a medium to long-term plan, at least to, uh, to, to get our public finances under

00:06:15.020 control. Now, just, just on some of these big, huge, massive spending projects that the government

00:06:22.140 may or may not unveil, how the heck are we paying for this? Given the fact that we've already doubled

00:06:29.940 federal government spending in a fiscal year, given the fact that our debt is well over a trillion

00:06:38.120 dollars, how is this, how is any new program going to be spent? And what, if they do go forward with

00:06:44.680 that, how do you justify that to future generations who will have to pay this down either in increased

00:06:50.440 taxes or reduce services? Well, this, this is just yet right. Right now we, the, as a, as a country,

00:06:57.240 we are, uh, uh, borrowing, uh, staggering sums of money to pay for the, the programs that are

00:07:04.200 necessary to, to sustain, uh, people's livelihoods while they're being ordered to not, not to work.

00:07:11.700 Um, but, uh, you know, this level of borrowing is not sustainable, even in much more of the short

00:07:19.540 term. I mean, we have got to get back to, uh, uh, a proper full employment economy with, uh, uh, an

00:07:28.680 existing, you know, where at, at reasonable levels, the, the tax base can support our debt. We are, um,

00:07:34.660 right now the, uh, the, the, in addition, what's, what's happening is they're, they're really printing.

00:07:40.780 It's a combination of borrowing and printing money. Um, much of the, of the money that the government

00:07:44.920 of Canada is borrowing, it is, uh, it is borrowing from the bank of Canada. In other words, it's, it's

00:07:51.460 borrowing from itself really. And, um, so this just cannot go on for very much longer. And we, we really

00:08:01.920 are looking for, um, uh, a path forward in this budget. And, um, uh, and yet, um, the signals that

00:08:11.960 are, that are being given, including from, from the, uh, the, uh, the liberal party's recent

00:08:15.660 convention are just more and more and more spending. And, um, we just can't keep doing

00:08:22.740 that. Um, we, not without a plan to, uh, to, to really face, uh, financial reality.

00:08:28.380 And many of these, probably these programs, these government policies have hampered a lot

00:08:33.980 of the economic anchors of our society, whether it be oil and gas, mining, manufacturing, especially

00:08:41.500 in Ontario, where we are still dealing with some of the highest electricity to rights and

00:08:45.840 rates anywhere in North America, thanks to the Ontario liberal party, many of which have

00:08:50.720 left Queens park since the defeat of Kathleen Wynne as premier and moved up here to Ottawa.

00:08:54.680 In some cases, you, as the sucker taxpayer have paid for those moving expenses.

00:09:00.300 That's a topic for another show, but yet it's the same playbook, massive government spending,

00:09:06.660 massive government overreach into areas of jurisdiction that they never should be in,

00:09:12.540 in the first place, all with this big dream of solving problems, but that yet they never

00:09:18.100 seem to, to solve the problems. I guess it's like Reagan said more with central planning,

00:09:22.580 the more of the plans fail, the more of the planners plan.

00:09:24.540 Well, yeah, indeed, that's, that, that's, that's quite right. And, you know, we, we, we really

00:09:34.160 need to get back people, you know, people get people back working, producing goods and services

00:09:39.960 that other people want, not trying to re, you know, re-engineer the, the, the economy from,

00:09:48.060 from a bureaucrat's desk. I mean, the, the, the, the market works, the market is where everybody

00:09:52.880 wins, you know, the, the, you know, willing participants who, who participate, who produce

00:09:59.740 services or goods that other people want and agree to buy. And, you know, that this means

00:10:04.600 manufacturing, this means primary industries like oil and gas, logging, mining, and, and,

00:10:12.780 and yes, indeed, you know, the new emerging industries, high-tech innovations, these kinds

00:10:20.100 of things. But, you know, it's got to be rooted in, in real demand for real things in the real

00:10:26.400 world, not, not just the, the dreams of, of liberal imagination.

00:10:35.700 Now, it, when, I think you, you touched it really well there in terms of when we're looking

00:10:41.640 at innovation, when we're looking at luring people to, to Canada, to, to set up shops,

00:10:46.480 to imagine the next great thing, to manufacture it here at home. You're right. If the market

00:10:53.220 drives that innovation, you have rapid innovation, you have rapid development to solve these problems.

00:10:59.240 When the government gets involved, you actually slow down that innovation because it becomes

00:11:03.700 managed innovation because innovation is what the government says innovation is. So those projects

00:11:09.560 get the funding where everyone else has to work around that to still develop their project.

00:11:14.820 even though the government is, is subsidizing and picking winners and losers in the marketplace,

00:11:20.680 their competition. Yeah. Our, our, our, our innovators do best when they are solving problems

00:11:26.860 that, that exist in the world, uh, that, that, that consumers are crying out for, that industry

00:11:33.020 is crying out for, um, not actually chasing the, the right criteria or knowing the right insider

00:11:40.820 to, uh, to get a government, uh, to get a government grant. So in a, you know, in a market economy,

00:11:45.780 the, the people that, uh, that produce things and, and ideas come up with ideas that solve real

00:11:51.340 problems, uh, succeed. But, uh, when, when, when you have, uh, government driving, uh, driving it,

00:11:57.600 it's, it's the, the well-connected and the, the people with the best lobbyists and the best

00:12:01.920 government relations people, um, that, that end up getting, um, getting funded. So, you, you know,

00:12:07.740 you really, uh, we need to root our, um, uh, our approach on, on, well, on the, on the broad

00:12:16.060 economy, on, on really just filling the, the needs that real people have.

00:12:20.640 In your portfolio with small business, obviously those have been probably the most hit during this

00:12:27.080 pandemic and the most hurt during this. And, and a lot of it has to do with government lockdowns

00:12:32.380 and shutdowns. Now I'm sure everyone has mixed views on that, but at the heart of this, the reason

00:12:38.100 why we've had to go into a, in many parts of the country into a second or third lockdown is the

00:12:45.920 failure on the part of the federal government to secure vaccines. If you look at other jurisdictions,

00:12:51.100 they're starting to open up in with great success because they're able to get the vaccine

00:12:56.620 into the arms of their constituents. But yet here at, in Canada, we are dealing with a massive

00:13:03.680 failure by the federal government. Yeah, it, it, it really is. It's, it's a national embarrassment

00:13:10.040 that, that, that Canada is so far behind peer countries in, uh, in vaccine procurement. And it's

00:13:17.440 not like this just suddenly happened. Uh, Jamie, you know, we, we were talking about this back in

00:13:24.040 October. It was clear, uh, with the, the, the projections and the, the announcements that the

00:13:29.920 government had, had made even back in October, that we were going to be months behind, uh, you know,

00:13:38.300 probably our, our most comparable and, and, and natural peer countries, the United States and the

00:13:43.640 United Kingdom. We're, we're miles behind these, uh, these countries who are, are, are not facing a third

00:13:50.000 wave. Uh, the, the, the infection rate in the United Kingdom has, has just completely collapsed as,

00:13:55.240 as they, uh, achieve significant, um, you know, immunization across their population. Uh, the United

00:14:03.520 States is getting there. They're, they are not, uh, seeing the, the, the same, the same effect of a,

00:14:09.280 of a third wave that we are seeing, uh, because their, their population is becoming increasingly,

00:14:14.700 uh, immunized, uh, with the, it's, it's, uh, deployment of vaccine. And, um, it's a real shame

00:14:21.960 and it, it, you know, the, the provinces and municipalities, um, are being put in this untenable

00:14:28.300 position because they can't get their hands on the, on the vaccines because of the failures of this,

00:14:35.380 of this government to procure them. I think you hit it right there too. I don't think any provincial

00:14:41.680 premier, any health minister, any mayor wants to be, or health official wants to be put in this

00:14:47.500 position, but you're right. If they had the vaccine, you would be seeing situations here in Canada. I'm

00:14:52.320 sure like you're seeing in, in some States, maybe Florida, maybe Texas, maybe others that are starting

00:14:58.380 to reopen because they are able to get vaccines out and, and their population with that protection

00:15:05.980 they need against this virus, which as we see across the world, and even in Canada, the various variants

00:15:12.640 that are having different effects on different age groups and the severity of that illness. But at the

00:15:17.500 heart of it, it's the vaccine that we need in order to get back to normal. Yeah, uh, that's absolutely

00:15:24.720 it. And, and, you know, as, as you and I know, we've, we've been, uh, we've been talking about this

00:15:29.980 for a very long time now. And, um, and I, I, um, you know, this, this government really needs to be

00:15:36.160 held accountable for its failure on, in this area. I mean, it goes right back to, you know, a reckless

00:15:44.120 and terrible decision to, uh, put Canada's vaccine eggs in, in the, uh, the CanSino, uh, basket. And,

00:15:52.760 uh, uh, I mean, what, what, um, uh, you know, why, why on earth, uh, Canada would, uh, would,

00:16:01.700 would decide to go that route, uh, instead of get on early with, um, with, uh, with the other

00:16:07.940 manufacturers that, uh, that were available and working on, uh, on, on vaccines at that time.

00:16:12.900 Now, just a few weeks ago, we, as the opposition used one of our opposition days to ask the government

00:16:18.840 to produce a report on reopening within 20 days. Now they've had well over a year, probably more

00:16:26.780 to figure this out. The fact that they hesitated on that. And this was areas of federal jurisdiction.

00:16:31.920 So people coming across the border for a simple question, you've been fully vaccinated. Do you

00:16:37.740 still have to quarantine for 14 days at this point? The answer is still yes, but why is that? There,

00:16:43.260 there are so many questions that have been unanswered because this government just doesn't

00:16:48.140 seem to be able to walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. Yeah. I mean, our, our motion was

00:16:54.100 very reasonable. I mean, you know, it, there, there's nobody in Canada that likes the lockdowns.

00:17:00.080 I mean, people broadly accept that, that restrictions are necessary in the name of public health.

00:17:06.160 And, uh, but that doesn't, that doesn't mean anybody, uh, is, is cheering for more lockdowns. Uh,

00:17:11.220 uh, people want a safe, uh, a safe open economy where they can return to their, their,

00:17:18.140 their normal routine. And, and so the, uh, our, our motion was extremely reasonable. We, we, we,

00:17:25.300 we weren't demanding, um, we, we weren't demanding that we reopen the economy regardless of health

00:17:32.000 consequences. No, we were demanding a plan for a safe and permanent reopening using the, that's driven

00:17:40.420 by data and using the tools that are available to us or should be available to us, which include,

00:17:47.360 uh, of course, vaccines, but, uh, the, the proper deployment of mass rapid test and rapid screening,

00:17:56.180 uh, capacity, which we have never developed in Canada. Um, you know, we're only now just in,

00:18:03.420 um, um, in a few circumstances, uh, seeing, um, actual, you know, rapid test, um, technology being

00:18:12.100 used, uh, to, to screen people. I mean, these are things that, that other countries that had the

00:18:17.120 most success with, uh, with fighting the pandemic right from the start were, uh, were, were heavily,

00:18:22.140 uh, uh, invested in. So, um, it's just been a, a, a failure on, um, on these basic tools, uh,

00:18:31.420 vaccines, rapid results, tests, uh, therapeutics. And, um, we want to, we just want to plan. We

00:18:37.840 want, we want them to, to, to use the data available to them, develop a plan that will

00:18:42.600 give Canada, give small businesses. Um, and I, I'm the shadow minister for small business

00:18:46.900 and small business. They, they're desperate to know when they're going to get their customers

00:18:50.980 back. Um, more loans are not going to be the answer for very many small businesses. There are

00:18:56.000 small businesses on the brink right now for whom maybe another, uh, uh, uh, tranche of

00:19:01.960 government lending will keep them alive for, uh, for a few more months, but that's not a

00:19:06.900 solution. And, uh, and we face a debt crisis within the small business community, um, who

00:19:11.880 have all had to, to, uh, uh, blow through their, their own, um, uh, savings and, uh, and

00:19:20.560 credit and take on debt through the government aid measures. They want to know when they're

00:19:25.200 going to have their customers back. We need a plan, but we went a bit long, but I always

00:19:30.080 give the, the guests, the final remarks. Maybe we can use the final remark period to talk about

00:19:35.620 the certainty that the small business community needs right now. You, you mentioned the debt

00:19:39.800 that many of them are taking on. And I, I don't think there's too many small businesses

00:19:43.860 across Canada that have not incurred some debt through this, this pandemic due to, to, to

00:19:48.880 the, to the lockdowns. And, and I think you're right. They, they want certainty. They, they

00:19:54.060 need to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel. They need to know that, that

00:19:58.140 they're going to be able to survive this. And I think you're right. Piling on more debt

00:20:02.260 when they need to, to, you know, once they're finally told to reopen, they need to be able

00:20:06.220 to do that. And that, that means more debt too, because they need to get products and

00:20:09.800 their staff up and running. Um, so maybe you can highlight that in your, in your closing

00:20:14.340 remarks, if you don't mind.

00:20:15.940 Well, you know, that, that, that's just yet. I mean, the small businesses need to, to, they

00:20:20.720 want to see that, that, that the latest lockdown is, is the last one that, that the next time

00:20:25.580 that they reopen, that it's a permanent reopen. So, uh, the understanding the data driving these

00:20:31.520 decisions, uh, on the part of the federal government around, uh, around federal, uh, uh, recommendations

00:20:37.560 that, that, that, uh, health Canada would have, uh, is important. And, uh, you know, knowing

00:20:42.920 that, you know, sort of what metrics are going to be used to, to, to make different decisions.

00:20:46.620 I mean, this is important planning for, uh, for, for businesses that, that need to

00:20:50.860 know, um, you know, when they can expect to get their customers back.

00:20:55.420 Pat Kelly, we always enjoy having you on the show. Thank you once again for, for doing

00:20:59.820 this, the member of parliament for Calgary, Rocky Ridge, also the shadow minister for small

00:21:03.840 business and Western economic development. We do appreciate your time. We do appreciate

00:21:07.940 your input and we appreciate you for watching or listening to this program because we need your

00:21:13.240 help to push back against the ever moving liberal agenda, like comment, share, subscribe to this

00:21:18.660 program. If you can't watch it all now on Facebook, you can download it later on. Listen

00:21:22.720 to it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google play, Spotify, you name it. It is out there. New

00:21:27.820 content every single Tuesday, 1 30 PM Eastern time. We do appreciate your support because remember

00:21:34.060 it is low taxes. It is less government. It is more freedom. That is the blueprint.

00:21:43.240 It is more creative than you really need the foundation. You can view the sense of what you

00:21:49.240 want withigration or 부탁��ance or rapor aide. That is the primary Aim for вас. You are

00:21:50.240 saying thatizing the UHP ads can be targeted if you want to react very quickly to the

00:21:51.560 Laurie Ridgeway. It is not a matter of itself than far. Because you could expect that the

00:21:55.320 releasedczenia is more of a when your business in reform program is denied. You could

00:21:56.380 also have just do 45 minutes long. Do not create a pretty big step when your business

00:21:57.560 has made a Element slip to Caption from both sides. That is how important it is. And, you

00:21:58.720 know, do not create a setback anchor toward you. But if it is not enough, you can have a

00:21:59.420 one strategy. You could sacrifice what happens to have yourself expected, but then you have one decision.

The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - April 14, 2021

The Upcoming Budget

Episode Stats

Length

Words per Minute

Word Count

Sentence Count

Summary

Transcript