The Winnipeg lab
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Summary
In this episode of The Blueprints, Conservative MP Michael Chong joins us to discuss the ongoing issue of the government's failure to produce documents related to the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the firing of two government scientists from the lab in Winnipeg.
Transcript
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Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprints. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm
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your host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton, for The Lakes Brock. We're
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Time. Our hope is to become Canada's number one Conservative Podcast. In order to do that,
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We're going to bring back a guest. He's been on a couple of times before to kind of continue
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the ongoing story. We're going to bring back Michael Chong, the Member of Parliament for
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Wellington-Halton Hill. He's also the Global Affairs critic. Thank you, Michael, for coming back.
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Well, unfortunately, this is an ongoing story that we keep having you in to talk about.
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It's the latest one, and we'll talk about it. It kind of got a lot of coverage on Twitter,
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but not a whole bunch in the mainstream media, unfortunately, but we're hopefully going to be
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able to talk about it now. So let's talk about what was made available yesterday or basically
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made news yesterday in some circles with the Parliamentary Law Clerk. Maybe you could just
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Well, quite simply, Jamie, what happened yesterday was that the government thumbed its nose at an
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order of the House of Commons to produce documents related to the government's lab in Winnipeg and its
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relationship with the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the firing of two government scientists from
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that lab. So the government's thumbing its nose in an order. You know, it's pretty, you know, it's pretty
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appalling that they're doing this. You know, Canadians have been and people across the country
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have been asked to comply with public health orders for the last 18 months of this pandemic.
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And here we are. The government is not doing as it says, and it's failing to comply with an order
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of the House of Commons to produce these documents.
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Now, this is an ongoing issue we've been talking about. We had you on the show a few weeks ago to
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talk about this. So despite the threats, despite the warnings, the Trudeau government granted a
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scientist from the China's People's Liberation Army permission to work in the National Microbiology
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Laboratory in Winnipeg. So that's that's the place where some of the world's most dangerous
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viruses and pathogens are handled. Where are we in that? Like, how is this continuing to happen?
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And what is the this this this relationship with the Communist Party of China and this government
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here in Canada? Well, what's happened at the Winnipeg lab is very concerning. It's clear
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that there were national security breaches at the lab. What we do know is that two government scientists
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were marched out of the lab, escorted out of the lab, along with the number of students by the RCMP
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in July of 2019. We know that those two scientists were fired in January of this year. We know that
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CSIS raised concerns about these scientists. We know that a scientist from China's military,
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from the People's Liberation Army, Fei Yu Yan, was granted access by the government to work in the
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Winnipeg lab, a lab that is a level four lab, a lab that can handle the world's most dangerous
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pathogens and viruses. That's what we know. This is all very concerning. And when there are national
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security breaches, it's the responsibility of Parliament and its committees to hold the government
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accountable for these breaches in order to do investigations, to gather documents so that
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the government doesn't repeat these mistakes in the future. But they've been stonewalling us and
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thumbing their nose in order of the House and its committees to produce these documents.
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Now, we should point out, I think you mentioned it earlier, you know, all three opposition parties
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teamed up to pass that motion that these documents be released. It was 179 to 149 was the vote demanding
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those documents. So right now, more than 250 pages have been completely redacted of all information.
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What is the secrecy that this government doesn't, what do you think it is that the government doesn't
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want Canadians to find out? Well, this is a government that says that it was going to do
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things differently. It came to office in 2015, promising to be open and accountable by default.
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But it's been anything but. It's very concerning why, you know, that they're not releasing these
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documents. As to exactly why, we don't know. Because we don't know what's behind the redactions.
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We don't know what they're trying to cover up. Clearly, they're very worried about releasing this
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information. And, you know, one can only guess as to why. It's clear that there were national
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security breaches. It's clear they granted access to a Chinese scientist from the People's Liberation
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Army. It's clear that national security agencies raised concerns about this. But we don't know
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all the details. And I can only guess as to why they're working so hard to cover everything up.
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So all these red flags with the Communist Party, but yet Canada still continues to invest in the Asian
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Infrastructure Bank. And I believe you asked this in committee a little while ago to Mark Garneau,
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the minister, about their plans with that with that infrastructure bank. And he responded,
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according to the this Globe and Mail article, to say, we have no plans to back away from it. So we're
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building pipelines in other countries. We just can't get anything built in ours.
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You know, it's astounding. In the last month, the European Union has put a halt
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to one of China's signature treaties, which is the European Union China Comprehensive Agreement on
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Investment. Several weeks ago, the Australian government canceled two belt and road initiatives
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with China to agreements with China. And yet the Canadian government, the Trudeau government continues
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to go down the path of engagement with China on things, as you pointed out, like the China led
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Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, a bank, by the way, which just said this week that it's open to
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financing Burma's and Myanmar's illegitimate military junta. How on earth Canada, why on earth,
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and how the government can allow Canadian taxpayer money and Canada's good reputation to continue to
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participate in a bank that's spreading that kind of model of governance throughout the Indo-Pacific
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region is beyond me. Our view is that the government should suspend payments to the bank
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and withdraw as a member. Absolutely, because their condition on funding, the Canadian government's
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condition on funding has nothing to do with whether or not that country returns to a democracy at all,
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if ever. That's right. And we shouldn't be financing, even considering the financing of projects
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initiated by the junta in Myanmar. That's just beyond the pale. This is a junta that is suppressing the
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people of Myanmar that is illegitimately seized power and is crushing all dissent in the face of a
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democratic election that was just held. We can't be legitimizing that kind of brute force by participating
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the financing of infrastructure projects in that country. And the fact that the China-led Asian
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Infrastructure Investment Bank is even considering that is proof positive for us to withdraw as a
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member and withdraw our financing. And now we still have the two Michaels in custody for,
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I guess it's well over 900 days now, with potentially no end in sight. And we're continuing to
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do business with with the Communist Party here in China. Yeah, we continue to, you know, do business
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with them. We continue to engage on a whole range of initiatives of the Communist leaderships that we
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shouldn't really be participating in. Because a lot of these initiatives are tied to the Belt and Road
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initiative are tied to China's attempt to export its authoritarian model of governance throughout the
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Indo-Pacific region. And Canada should not be party to that, because it's really runs counter to our
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our fundamental values, and a belief in democracy, human rights and the rule of law.
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And we're seeing the expansion of China's kind of power and influence almost grip going right around
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the world. You know, we talked about it before on the show, about what they're doing in many
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countries in Africa, how they will build something in exchange for maybe port rights or mineral access
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or drilling rights, that kind of thing. They they are really putting a grip on their their expansion
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right across the country. Does that is that worrying you? Is is the Canadian government,
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from what you've learned in committee, taking note of this as well?
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Yeah, it is of concern. China, in recent years, has become the largest foreign aid donor in
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sub-Saharan Africa. It's trying to supplant other donors and become an influential
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power in that region of the world. And, you know, as the old saying goes, beware of
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those who come bearing gifts. There's always strings attached to these gifts.
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And so that is of concern. It's also concern what they're doing in closer to home in the South
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China Sea with their belligerence, their unilateral expansion of of their boundaries into the South
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China Sea that's threatening the Philippines, Vietnam and other countries in the region.
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Their recent bellicose behavior in the border clashes that have taken place between China and
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India is also a concern. Their crackdown on Hong Kong in violation of the international treaty that
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guaranteed Hong Kong's autonomy for 50 years from 1997 is also a concern. And obviously, you know,
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their ongoing genocide against the Uyghur Muslim minority in Xinjiang province. We have a responsibility
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to speak up about these violations of international law, because if we're silent, we'll be complicit in
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So I know I've asked you this before, but maybe we can reiterate it for those that may have not
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watched a previous episode. But if the Conservatives were in power, what would we be doing differently
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right now? If you were the foreign minister, how would you be handling our relationship with China?
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Well, there's a number of things we would do differently. First and foremost, we'd protect
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the safety and security of Canadians. And we would come forward with a robust plan
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to counter China's influence and intimidation operations here on Canadian soil. In recent years,
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there's been evidence that Chinese agents and personnel at their embassies and missions here in
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Canada have been coordinating the intimidation of pro-Hong Kong democracy activists, intimidation of
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Uyghur and Tibetan activists, and intimidation of other people in Canada. That has got to stop. And we've
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got to have a clear, robust plan in place to counter these operations on Canadian soil and make it clear
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to China's accredited diplomats here that any involvement in these operations is ground for their expulsion from
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Canada. The other thing we need to do is to come forward with a clear plan to protect Canadian
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universities and institutions, and in particular, the very high level research and development that
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takes place at these universities. And so we would immediately issue a directive to the federal granting
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councils banning partnerships with Chinese companies and Chinese institutions in sensitive areas such as
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biotechnology and technology. So we would ban partnerships with Huawei and other companies in those sectors.
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We would advise Canadian provinces and provincial institutions against partnerships with these companies.
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Outside of Canada, we would take strong measures to join our allies like Australia, the United States,
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New Zealand, and the United Kingdom in banning Huawei from Canada's 5G network. We would also withdraw
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from a big part of China's attempt to export its authoritarian model of governance by withdrawing from the Asian
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Infrastructure Investment Bank as well as withdraw Canada's funding from that bank. These are all measures that
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we would take immediately upon coming to office in order to make it clear that we are going to stand up for Canadians
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I almost forgot, and I feel bad for doing it, but we also forgot to mention, I know we have in previous shows, that the government of
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Canada wasted 100 days or so when they tried to negotiate with Cansino, an organization linked to the Communist Party of China,
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on our vaccine supply, which put us behind in basically a lot of countries who are seeing massive reopenings now.
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We are behind because of that very poor decision to partner with that organization.
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You know, we should be partnering more closely in research with our allies, with institutions in the United States,
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the United Kingdom, Europe and Japan and Australia.
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This is where our research dollars should be, where we should be collaborating in research.
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You know, the National Institutes of Health in the United States receives $50 billion Canadian a year
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for research into health, research into vaccines, research into other health care outcomes.
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And a lot of that money comes to Canadian researchers here in Canada.
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And the Biden administration has made it clear that it wants to work more closely with allies in that research,
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and has also made it clear, though, that if allies aren't taking national security seriously,
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such as banning Huawei from partnerships here in Canada, that they may not collaborate with us on the research they do do.
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And so this is incredibly important for us to protect the research dollars that do come from places like the United States,
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from the United Kingdom, from Europe, from Japan, that is so fundamental to building our innovation infrastructure, as they say.
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We cannot put them at risk because we've been lax with national security.
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Well, we only have a few more minutes left, and I always give the guests the last word, so I'll do that after.
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But I wanted to give you the opportunity first to comment on the horrific attack that we saw in London, Ontario yesterday.
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It's absolutely horrifying and, frankly, inexplicable.
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Words cannot capture the horror of what happened, and, you know, it has no place in Canada.
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You know, people of all faiths, all creeds, all religions should be able to practice their faith without fear, without discrimination.
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And what happened yesterday, two days ago, is beyond the pale.
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And my heart goes out to the family and the friends of the victims, the four victims.
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You know, it's just, it's something that, you know, it's hard to put into words how horrific that was,
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and why we have to always be vigilant and stand up against discrimination and hate whenever we see it.
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Maybe we can give you the last word on our original topic.
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Sorry to bump back and forth here, but I thought it was important that we say that before we sign off.
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So, again, let's, maybe you can summarize, again, the ongoing, I guess, fascination that the Justin Trudeau and his government has with the Communist Party of China
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and their ongoing dealings with this, even though Canada continues to get kicked over and over again.
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And we ran out of time, I didn't talk about the agriculture situation we had, I guess, going on two or three years ago now, probably two years now,
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and many others where Canada just seems to not want to do business differently with China.
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Well, I think there are a lot of people close to the Trudeau government that have financial interests connected to China.
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I think that's one problem with the current government.
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They're heavily invested in China and, you know, they're heavily compromised in that way.
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I think the other challenge is that the government came to office naive about the threats that China was posing to our citizens, to our economy, to our values.
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I think they now realize these threats, but they still have no plan to deal with these threats.
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And that's why we really do need a new government in place that's going to come to office immediately with their eyes wide open to take measures to ensure that we're much more multilateral in our approach on China,
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working much more closely with allies like the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, and the United States, and countering these threats.
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And I didn't talk about manufacturing and bringing that back to Canada.
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The Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, also the Member of Parliament for Wellington, Halton Hills, and the beautiful province of Ontario.
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New content, as I said at the beginning, every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time.
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