This was no April Fools joke. The numbers at the pumps are no laughing matter.
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Summary
On today's show, we are talking about the carbon tax. It went up yesterday, so you're probably waking up to more effects of prices going up and life getting harder and harder. Greg Mclean, a Member of Parliament for Calgary Centre, joins me to talk about it.
Transcript
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Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprints. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your
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host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton-Caworthalikes Brock with new content
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for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. On today's show, we are talking about the
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carbon tax. It went up yesterday, so you're probably waking up to more effects of prices
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going up and life getting harder and harder. Please like, comment, subscribe, and share this
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program. A very important message. Tell your friends they can download it on platforms like
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iTunes, Google Play, and Spotify. You name it, it is out there. Greg McClain, thanks for coming on the
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show, Member of Parliament for Calgary Centre. You're going to talk carbon tax here today.
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Thanks, Jamie. Happy to be here. My goodness, it's up again. We're up to $80 a ton. It went from $65
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up to $80 on April 1st. Let's recognize in the last election it was $50, which it was supposed to be
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capped at. Then it went $15 a year after that. So $65 last year. Just right up to $80 today. A 23%
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increase on April 1st. Congratulations, everyone. So most people will be feeling it almost immediately
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at the pumps, but there are other things that will take time to implement. It's just groceries. As new
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groceries come in, the new price takes effect. Prices will gradually start to increase. So even though
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some people may not have seen it outside the price of the pump, there will be effects coming for the
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weeks ahead. All kinds of effects. Number one, let's take a look at how opaque this carbon tax is.
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So it's going up 23% as a direct cost. So on your fuel bill, it goes up, the tax goes up by 23%,
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the carbon tax. But in the grand scheme of things, you take a look at how much tax we actually pay
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on fuel. There's a whole bunch of mitigating effects that have to go into that. So the provinces,
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many provinces are actually lowering the tax they charge on fuel because of that. So that means
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lower, less revenue for provinces. More money for the feds, less money for the provinces. But you're
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right. The indirect effects of this are astounding. And the parliamentary budget officer has said that
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very clearly. The government cannot just measure the direct effects because it affects our economy.
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Like we always say in the House of Commons, the trucker that trucks the food, the grocers that sell
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the food, the producer that produces the food. These are all cumulative effects that are happening
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within our tax system. And people are bearing that in inflation. It's absolutely incredible
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that even the NDP Premier of Manitoba took away the provincial tax on fuel or reduced it.
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That sends a message that this is not just on partisan lines. It goes across partisan lines.
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Even the Liberal Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador, territorial premiers, they're all calling
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for either a pause or a reduction because life has got so unaffordable because of this federal government.
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All the metrics are there. You take a look at what housing costs Canadians now, it's gone up significantly.
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40% over the last handful of years. This is astronomical. 10% year over year across Canada for rent.
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These are numbers that you can't keep up with if you're a consumer. So how do you actually abate this?
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Well, one of the ways to abate this, of course, is to stop escalating the taxes. And the taxes are a direct
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impact on the cost of living for all Canadians. So the provinces are doing that because they're
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recognizing that all their citizens are saying, everything's costing me too much now. Help me out
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here. And they're all going to face the ballot. The ballot question is going to be like, what have you
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done for me? And the provinces are all running up higher deficits as a result. So again, recognize what
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we're doing. We're taking money from the provinces and we're giving it to the federal government.
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It's a push-pull. Somebody's got to deal with it at some point in time.
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And it kind of got out of control because the federal government was supposed to be the level that you
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most times least interacted with, right? They had defense and trade and a few other things that
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most Canadians have no idea what's going on. They would mostly deal with either the province or
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municipality. But the federal government has gotten so, so large under this liberal government.
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It's like a big beast that they've allowed to get out of control.
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It's a push-pull of confederation. What are the provinces responsible for? The stuff on the
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ground to deliver to Canadian citizens. But what the federal government responsible for?
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Primarily taxation. The bigger chunk of taxation on your income tax goes to the federal government
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by far. And what they've done here is they've moved back into provincial jurisdiction about how
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they get indirect taxes as well. They already had the GST slash HST, but now they're coming in
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there and they're trimming where the provinces used to collect revenues for things like roads.
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Now they're taking that away from the provinces and going, we're collecting that at the federal
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level. And we're telling people that we're giving it back to them. Well, not so, says the
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parliamentary budget officer. You're only giving them a little bit of it back. You're not giving
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them any of the indirect parts of that back that they have to pay and increase groceries,
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increase shipping, increase goods across the line.
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And instead of the liberals just raising taxes, which they have on a number of things, including
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beer and other liquor, which they all of a sudden said, well, we're going to put a stop to that
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because it just automatically happened. And, and, and, you know, the no fun government.
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But this, this, they're doing it behind the scenes, right? When they printed all that money out of
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thin air, when they borrowed, they, they're, they're doing it under the radar, right? Because it's,
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it's that tax, that, that pressure on life's essentials that are, that are happening. And people,
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some people can't put their finger on it, but it's a result of, of policies by this federal
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government. It could be rules and regulations, stuff that you don't see, stuff that isn't voted
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on in the House of Commons. Exactly right. So let's, let's break that down. Six years from now,
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2030, what is the carbon tax supposed to be? $170 a tonne. That'll translate to about 37 cents a
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liter of gasoline. And that also means the second tax on that, of course, is the clean fuels
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regulation tax, which would be another 17 cents a liter. So 54 cents a liter in gasoline. All
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things being equal, that, that equates to about 45% of the value of your gasoline is going to be
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in taxes at that point in time. But add on to that, the GST, HST, and the PST as well, and you've
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got tax on tax happening. Government's collecting a lot of money through this process. And government
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really, those at the top level, they're not affected by this, right? They are, they are just,
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the planners are planning, but they don't actually take part in the plan.
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They get to talk out two sides of their mind, right? We're dealing with inflation,
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but we're adding more costs into everyday Canadians. Now, the Bank of Canada governor
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appeared before our finance committee and actually admitted that, yes, this is causing
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inflation. Now, he says it's about 0.15% of the inflation rate. If you think about the
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inflation rate in Canada right now, just around 4%, 0.15%, that is a carbon tax. It adds up though.
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And the actual, he actually got that number, I think, from the International Chamber of Commerce,
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which looks at every $10 added in carbon tax equates to about 10, 0.1% of an actual increase
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in inflation. So you think about $15, 0.15%, the translation is pretty clear. So that's where
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he gets it. But you think about it, if you're actually facing an inflationary spiral, why do you
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keep adding to it? And not just the carbon tax itself, but the clean fuels regulation,
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which is about 50% more on top of the carbon tax. This is just adding to the burden. The trouble
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with it is, it's also very opaque. Do people actually see when they're paying this? Do they
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see the effects when it comes onto the grocery bill? Look, my food's going up. Well, let's blame
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the grocers on this, as this government does. Exactly. Okay, we need a grocer, you know,
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code of conduct. Well, how about stop the tax on them that they have to pay, and it accumulates
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along the way. Yeah, life was not this unaffordable before Justin Trudeau, and as our leader always
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says, life will be more affordable after he's gone. It's that old saying, right? Government will give you,
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with the open hand, so it was the rebates. But they have that clenched fist behind their back,
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right? It's the carbon tax, or more regulation, or more rules, and making it harder for business,
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and increasing the cost, and making life unaffordable, so that they'll say, hey, look at this over here,
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it's the rebate. But if you just don't take it from people in the first place, and allow costs to come
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down, they will actually have more money in the long run. And you know, you think about that messaging
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that they're giving here now, the Liberals are desperate for some messaging on this, because it
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actually has landed. People have actually figured out that this is costing them money. They're feeling it
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every day, but they're also, the data's there as well. And the government's trying to ignore that,
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and pretend it isn't happening. They're saying, well, this is why you get a rebate. So, okay, well,
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the rebate and the tax are supposed to be neutral, according to you, according to the parliamentary
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budget officer. They're far from neutral. They're causing Canadians a lot. But what's the point of
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setting up a tax where you give back all the money? It doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.
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It doesn't. So, the rich and the well-connected, they're not affected by this whatsoever,
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right? The price of gasoline goes, it really doesn't affect where they go on vacation.
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At the same time, you have an NDP party that claims they're for the working person, but they
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are far from it. They're actually supporting all of these increases. They are actually saying more.
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I don't understand how people in Northern Ontario, where there are NDP seats, actually are okay with
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what's going on, because they are feeling the pinch the most being in those Northern and rural communities.
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You know me, I'm the member partner for Calgary Centre. So, Calgary is the heart and soul of
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Canada's oil and gas industry. Now, every time I get up and speak in the House of Commons,
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somebody from one of the other parties will go, well, you belong to oil and gas. I don't belong to
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anybody. And if you actually talk to people in oil and gas, they know I'm critical of some of the
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ways they do things as well, including some of the ways they participate in the clean fuels regulation
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standards, which isn't doing anything for the environment. We actually need to better at the end of the day.
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But you know, when I ask those questions from the NDP, well, what do you think about oil and gas?
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We have to end this as quickly as possible. But they provide no pathway for that that actually
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means anything to the common person. How does this affect your driving habits? How does this affect
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you heating your home? The basics of life are intertwined with what we consume and pay for with
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this carbon tax. We have said many times in this show, we have oil and gas that we should be proud
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of. We do it as ethically as possible in many cases. We have labor, strong labor standards,
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environmental standards, the list goes on. We should be promoting this industry. We should be providing
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low cost energy, which then makes life affordable for people. And developing nations too, right? One of their
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biggest hurdles is affordable energy. We have it. We have the ability. We've just been hampered by this
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government. There's a lot of narrative around how Canadian oil and gas is bad and everybody wants to
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end it as soon as possible because it's causing climate effects. It is causing climate effects.
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Everything we burn in the world is causing a climate effect, whether it's natural gas, oil, coal, wood,
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garbage, anything else you're burning up in the air is causing effects in the environment. What we have
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to do is make those emissions as clean as possible so they're having as little negative effect as
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possible while continuing to build the advantages that clean energy, clean affordable energy has given to
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the world. So even with the carbon tax emissions haven't gone down. In British Columbia you see it,
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they've had the carbon tax the longest. Emissions keep going up. It stopped being revenue neutral and
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became actually a cash cow for the provincial government and now the federal government is
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getting their cut of that. At the same time, when you say life, Canadians say to the prime minister,
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life is getting harder and harder. I can't pay my bills. I'm having trouble eating. My mortgage has
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gone through the roof. Justin Trudeau's answer is always, I just need more time, more resources,
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and at some point I'll get it right. I'll fix this problem eventually. In my mind, leadership
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isn't kind of navigating through the crisis. It's preventing the crisis in the first place.
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I'm not sure that the prime minister actually does have a plan here. It's kind of like throwing
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darts at a wall and playing whack-a-mole with all the problems that come out. This is going to cause
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significant problems across the country. There's no way it's not going to be inflationary and we've had
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a bit of a dip down in inflation in Canada in the last little while. This will cause an inflationary
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bump. Take a look at our trading partners. Our main trading partner in the United States does not have
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a carbon tax. So how many of the industries that you and I meet with when they come and lobby us
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here say you need to subsidize us because we pay this carbon tax that doesn't make us a trading
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competitor with the United States? Our main trading partner doesn't have the same tax regime we have,
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making everything we produce here more expensive. And I don't think our role is to tax them and then
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subsidize them at the end of the day. Let's make sure we've got a very transparent board,
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of which the free trade agreements that we've signed with the United States and other countries
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were meant to solve. Make sure we have things going on in Canada where Canada adds value and
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things going on we import from the states where they add value. And that should lead to prosperity
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for everybody as long as it's done fairly. And that's what we need to achieve again.
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Up until it seems eight years ago or so when the Liberals took power, it was always government who
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laid out a target for industry to hit. When you're talking about automobiles, right? They want
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emissions to be capped at this level, fuel efficiency to be this. And it was up to the industry to figure
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it out whether it's using lighter materials such as aluminum on their vehicles or whatever, or a
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four-cylinder engine that did the same work as a six-cylinder. There was always differences and then the
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market chose accordingly which worked best for them. This government seems to say we're going to subsidize who
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we, the industry that we believe is going to give us the future we want, right? And I say we as the
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government. So it's government innovation not actually market individual innovation or even
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individual innovation. That's right. The government's putting their thumb on the scale about which
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industries it thinks it should sponsor here going forward. Think about the number of battery plants
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we're subsidizing in Canada right now and the one, the ones in Ontario and Quebec combined are about
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four million dollars we're subsidizing per job. You tell me how many years those people are going to
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have to pay taxes in order to make up that subsidy of four million dollars. This is a boondoggle for
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the companies involved with it. Is there actually any net value added economic activity happening as a
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result? And you think about the companies involved, some of those companies are facing still international
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charges from nine years ago going back to how they broke environmental laws. And now the Canadian
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government's giving them billions of dollars. It's obscene what we're going through here in this
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practice and yet you know I always I always call a minister, the Minister of Industry, I always say
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he's the Minister of Writing Checks because he actually doesn't know how to analyze exactly a business
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case that makes sense for this country going forward. There's all kinds of great economic activity that
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could happen in this country but we are not getting that foreign investment into this country because
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the rules are so opaque. You know government gets to choose we're going to go here. If this project
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goes ahead in Canada it's only because the government's going to put a whole bunch of money in it. Otherwise
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it's going to get stuck in all kinds of regulatory delays, all kinds of other delays, all kinds of cost
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add-ons that this government is imposing on certain industries versus others. What does government actually
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innovate? Does it do well in innovation? Absolutely not. That's the problem. It is the problem. I mean the government
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sits there and it can participate in some of the funding for these mechanisms and there's no purity
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around the world about the way governments actually participate in aiding innovation and development
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and research. We're a very poor country of that in Canada. We don't spend nearly as you know a significant
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amount of our GDP as we should on that research and development. Fixing that is what we have to do
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through a tax system that actually rewards innovation as opposed to the government just shoveling money
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on chosen projects. And some of those projects within a year they go well it didn't work.
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So that's Canadian taxpayer money that's gone out the door that we're not going to get back.
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Well and at that point that year is gone. Those Canadians who are finding it tough they have to suffer
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and then they have to keep suffering because again the government will say just we just need more time
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and more money and we'll get there. We swear we'll get there. We promise. Trust us. Yeah trust us.
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Because we know super smart in Ottawa we can figure this out. We can innovate faster than industry can.
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We can hire more people. We can hire more consultants. We can keep spinning our wheels at this but they're
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not getting a job done. There's so many aspects and I have to explain this to my constituents all the time.
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Show me something that's going well with this government because I'm not sure they have anybody in their
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cabinet that actually says here's what we need to do in order to move these files forward.
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Now there are exceptions. I'm not going to cover everybody with the same blanket here.
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But the fact is is every recognizable file in the economy they fail that miserably.
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Carbon tax is I think the egregious outlier of that because it is more tax more tax more tax
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going forward here to 2030 without an environmental outcome at the end of the day. You take a look at
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the countries around the world. The two extreme outliers are Canada and the United Kingdom as far
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as offshoring our manufacturing capacity to other countries. Now what does that do for carbon
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abatement around the world? All they're doing is producing what we used to produce here elsewhere
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because there's no regulations where they're producing it now. That's not accomplishing environmental
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advancement whatsoever. Matter of fact you take a look at the actual carbon emissions around the world
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they've gone up significantly since we introduced a carbon tax in Canada. We've lost industry.
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Carbon emissions are going up around the world. We need to find a better path forward that actually
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reduces worldwide emissions because we're all in the same atmosphere and how we participate in that
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economically and environmentally. I think one way to look at it, if you're looking at how government
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controls innovation and how the market controls innovation, a good way to look at it, I just kind of was
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was kind of searching some examples, but the beer industry, right? Every town has a craft brewery.
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Maybe more. Thank goodness. Thank goodness. And aside from some of the regulatory issues we have
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provincial bodies, I know you're in Alberta, it's different, different in Quebec, I get that,
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I'm from Ontario, but at the same time there are people innovating, making different brews, right?
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Different, they're experimenting and they're able to keep afloat based on the fact that they have a unique
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product, but the government has very little to do with that and it's a thriving industry.
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You look at where government is tamping down, you actually get slower innovation, you get less choice,
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less price comparisons, right? There is just a stark difference in my mind when you look at where
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the government regulates and gets their hand in things and where the market and the brilliant minds
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of our entrepreneurs are allowed to flourish. I love that example. The beer example is a great one.
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Because you think about all the craft brewers, you've got a lot of craft brewers in downtown
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Calgary and they've written me many times about these escalator taxes the government keeps pushing
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onto the alcohol industry. Now the issue of course is Canadians are consuming less beer per capita
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and yet this industry is doing well despite the fact the government keeps trying to tax them more
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and more. But think of all the brew pubs, about all the social activity that goes around brew pubs. Even
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though we're drinking less, which is probably good for our health, we're actually participating more.
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We'll pay a little more for a nicer product at the end of the day. I remember when you're in
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university of course you probably bought some inexpensive beer. It was the budget beer at that
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point, right? That's right, but now it's kind of okay, you know I've got some good taste there,
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you know, and let's go try out some... Let's try something different. Some saisons or some IPAs or whatever,
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whatever the local flavor is. It's a great example. But that's how government, if it gets out of the way,
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the market could provide a whole slew of choices in pretty much every field. But unfortunately we
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regulated ourselves to death. Carbon tax unfortunately went up yesterday to $80 a ton,
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a 23% increase from just a couple days ago. Unbelievable. We're almost out of time.
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As you know, guests always get the last word. The floor is yours. Well Jamie, keep doing what you're
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doing because it's important Canadians see that there are alternatives to this tax and spend government.
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We have to make sure that we're actually delivering good government for Canadians at the end of the day.
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We're also wildly in debt in Canada. Take a look at the budget numbers that come out here at the end of
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at the end of the estimates period. Projected $37 billion, pardon me, $47 billion deficit this year.
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This is runaway spending that is just out of control and that's on the future generation. Interest is going up.
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10% of our budget now is towards debt servicing costs. This has to be addressed. This is runaway debt,
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runaway interest payments, runaway money disappearing from the pockets of taxpayers.
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We have to get ahead of that. You know I'm a budget conservative through and through. We've got
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to stop excessive spending across Canada. I just think the government doesn't know how to get out of
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it other than more spending. They just can't figure it out. It's got its playbook. We need to spend more
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money. Well spending more money is what got you here in the first place and spending more money is
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probably what you need to stop doing right now. And the Bank of Canada Governor has as much as said
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that. The effects of inflation are largely a result now of the fiscal policy of this government.
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And as Margaret Thatcher said, eventually you're running out a few other people's money, right?
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That's exactly right. Yeah. Greg McLean, Member of Parliament, Congress and Senator. Thank you very
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much for your time. Thank you. It's always a pleasure having you on the show.
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Yeah. Long time no see. Absolutely. You're welcome back anytime. Thank you for yours as well. Don't
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this program. I know everybody is dealing with the effects of the carbon tax. Let's get this message out.
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Let's make sure people are aware of why this is happening and it's because of Justin Trudeau
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and his horrible policies. You can also download the program on platforms like CastBox, iTunes,
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Google Play, and Spotify. Until next week, remember low taxes,
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less government, more freedom. That's the blueprint.