The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - Time to Defund the CBC？

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprints. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your

00:00:09.980 host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton, Kawartha, Lake Sprock, with new

00:00:13.780 content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. On today's show, we are talking

00:00:18.920 about the nonsensical CBC journalistic standards, also that interview with Pierre Polyev and the

00:00:25.320 Apple out in British Columbia. That and much, much more to talk about this is Rachel Thomas,

00:00:30.620 the Member of Parliament for Lethbridge, also the critic for Heritage. Thanks for joining us.

00:00:34.640 Thanks, Jamie. Good to be with you. All right. Let's talk about your motion,

00:00:37.740 talking about the CBC when they were debating or covering, if you will, the conflict in Israel

00:00:44.880 right now when Hamas went over the border and started to, very sadly and horrifying, 0.83

00:00:51.880 killing people, torturing, all of that. There was a directive going out to the reporters,

00:00:58.200 the journalists from on high at the CBC saying you cannot mention terrorism and Hamas in the

00:01:04.540 same sentence. Tell us a bit about that. You put a motion to committee. Yeah, for sure. So what ended

00:01:10.320 up happening was there was a leaked memo and this memo was from the director of journalistic standards

00:01:16.800 at the CBC and he had instructed the staff there to make sure that they didn't use the word terrorist

00:01:22.800 when they described Hamas. And of course, you know, I caught wind of this, as did a few Canadians

00:01:30.440 and was very alarmed by this. Because here's the thing, Hamas is listed by Canada officially

00:01:38.400 as a terrorist organization. And so if the CBC is not willing to call them terrorists, that's a

00:01:45.920 problem. Because they are then disagreeing with the government of Canada and a long-standing

00:01:52.660 definition that we have had for over 20 years. And again, that's official. It's not something up

00:01:58.320 for debate. It's not a matter of opinion. It's determined. And when the CBC was called to task on

00:02:05.740 this, they said, well, the reason why this is their journalistic standard is because they don't

00:02:11.440 want to take sides. And to call Hamas terrorists would be to take sides. For me, this raises the

00:02:20.060 question, if you're not on the side of the innocent and against terrorists, whose side are you on? And

00:02:31.960 how problematic is that then for a public broadcaster to find themselves on that other side? I mean, by

00:02:40.720 failing to declare that Hamas is in fact a terrorist organization is to automatically then side with 0.63

00:02:47.620 them. And that's a problem. When we're watching as Hamas entered into Gaza and took out 1,400 people in

00:02:58.040 an evening. They took women and they raped them and murdered them and paraded their naked bodies 0.97

00:03:03.940 through the streets. They took 40 babies and beheaded them. I mean, we're talking about a massive 1.00

00:03:12.940 massacre. And you're not willing to call those acts terrorists? Terrorism? You're not going to call that

00:03:22.420 group who committed those acts of violence? Terrorists? It just, honestly, I don't even have

00:03:31.620 words for that. Like, I just was so shocked, as were many Canadians, and I think very alarmed,

00:03:37.500 to know that Canadian dollars, taxpayer dollars, are paying for that type of lopsided news coverage,

00:03:45.680 for that type of direction to be given to those who work at the CBC. I think Canadians deserve a whole

00:03:53.740 lot better. So, all that to say, you know, as the critic for Heritage, as the shadow minister,

00:04:00.060 I brought forward a motion at the committee along with Melissa Lansman. She officially moved it.

00:04:05.240 And together, we contended for a study having to do with the CBC and their journalistic standards and

00:04:11.900 whether or not they were appropriate. Unfortunately, you know, at the end of the day, the Liberals

00:04:16.140 voted to suspend it, which means, effectively, they're killing debate. And so, they're not wanting

00:04:22.940 to have the conversation. They're not wanting to look into this issue with regard to the CBC and the

00:04:28.180 journalistic standards that exist there. Yeah, to that point, like, journalism is, the trust in

00:04:33.940 journalism, unfortunately, is at a pretty historic low. I'm a former journalist, you know, I admit that.

00:04:41.040 But at the same time, when you're putting restrictions on what journalists can and can't

00:04:46.960 do and what words they can or can't say, to me, that's pretty problematic. So, like any art,

00:04:53.640 journalism, I would say, is an art as well, because, you know, you have to be a wizard of words

00:04:57.660 sometimes. At that point, you really narrow down, but also put that kind of thought in the journalist's

00:05:06.280 head about how their coverage could be measured, I guess. You know, you can't put those guidelines on.

00:05:14.560 And I think that's the problem that, as Conservatives, we have with the way the CBC operates.

00:05:20.440 So, it's a public broadcaster. They take about $1.2 billion from taxpayers every year in order to run

00:05:26.520 their news coverage. And, you know, and we see that the journalists who work there are given these

00:05:36.000 very clear marching orders in terms of the things that they get to cover and the way that they need

00:05:43.160 to cover them. As Conservatives, we believe that journalists should be entrusted as professionals

00:05:49.800 to take on the stories that they believe are worth telling, and to pursue them from a non-partisan

00:05:58.600 angle, from an unbiased angle, to the best extent possible, a neutral, you know, grounding point.

00:06:07.060 And we just don't see that from the CBC. We just don't. And so, that being the case, as Conservatives,

00:06:13.120 we would very much say the CBC needs to be set free. They need to be set free. Set them free from

00:06:18.120 public dollars, and therefore set them free from all of the cumbersome guidelines, if you will,

00:06:27.640 or standards, as, you know, some might say. Set journalists free from that. Allow them to provide

00:06:33.620 Canadians with real stories, real news from real people. And I think if we were able to get away

00:06:40.120 from partisanship, if we were able to get away from, you know, dictatorial editors, we would be able to

00:06:47.160 restore some trust in the Canadian public. And I think that we've always been trying to get away

00:06:52.840 from the government controlling any kind of media. We saw the government come in now with new kinds of

00:06:57.480 censorship legislation. We'll get to that in a moment. But at the same time, you know, if the

00:07:02.380 government is controlling the pay, the pay stub, the paycheck, it's always, well, I don't want to bite

00:07:10.340 the hand that feeds me sometimes, right? And especially with these liberals, they can be

00:07:14.580 extremely vindictive when they want to be. And, and, you know, trying to make that balance, it's hard

00:07:21.220 to make, especially when you're supposed to be checking the government as a journalist.

00:07:26.020 Well, that's just it, right? So the, you know, journalists are meant to be kind of the watchdog of

00:07:29.860 the nation, right? They're meant to expose stories that perhaps, you know, we, we as politicians,

00:07:35.300 maybe wouldn't want them to expose. Well, that's their job. Their job is to hold us to account.

00:07:40.340 Their job is to make sure that the Canadian public is aware of the decisions that are being made,

00:07:44.340 the things that are going on here on Parliament Hill, and of course, across the country.

00:07:48.980 And, but when, you know, when the CBC, you know, kowtows to the government of the day,

00:07:55.700 that's a problem, right? And so then, of course, we're seeing this scenario where Canadians are 0.76

00:08:03.460 putting less and less faith in the media, and are simply just reporting that they're not able to

00:08:08.900 trust the news that they're hearing. Well, when we talk about trust,

00:08:12.900 let's talk about the censorship legislation. All right, we have a very real situation coming on.

00:08:17.940 I know you and others were very forceful, and we had you on the show previously to talk about this,

00:08:23.140 but it was the result of these pieces of legislation, if passed, would happen on local media. And I know

00:08:30.100 myself, I go to local media, look for a story, and especially on Facebook or something like that,

00:08:34.580 it says, this page cannot be displayed. Right? This was a revenue stream for local media

00:08:40.260 to tell local stories, and the government just wiped that off the map.

00:08:44.900 Yeah. So I, it's interesting because, you know, over the last number of months,

00:08:49.220 I've received dozens of text messages and emails from folks who are, you know, taking a screenshot on

00:08:55.860 their phone or their device and sending it my way, where it's showing, you know, this is the news

00:09:00.820 outlet that they're trying to see, but then, you know, it says blocked, cannot display Canadian content

00:09:05.380 because of Bill C18. This is, this is real, this is happening. The government, you know, put this policy in

00:09:12.820 place, you know, that, that would force Google and Facebook to pay, you know, for news links on,

00:09:20.580 you know, if they were to carry news links, or they had to drop news. So they were given an option

00:09:26.580 according to this legislation. And, you know, and so Facebook Meta has determined they are then going

00:09:32.740 to drop it because there's no monetary value in carrying news links for them. And so as a business,

00:09:38.020 they're, they're no longer going to carry it. Um, Google has indicated that they are going to do the

00:09:42.980 same. And, and we can see some of that already happening, though, not fully yet. Uh, they're waiting

00:09:48.260 until the entire regulatory framework is in place. Uh, and the government was warned that this would be

00:09:54.740 the case. Um, and, and expert after expert at, at committee, both within the House of Commons and at

00:10:02.740 Senate, uh, warned the government, told them, you know, this, this was going to be quite detrimental,

00:10:07.540 that it was terrible public policy. Um, the government, you know, continued and, and ultimately,

00:10:14.820 you know, pushed this legislation through without giving it a sober second thought or listening to

00:10:19.620 the experts who were speaking, uh, about its detriments. And unfortunately now Canadians are 1.00

00:10:25.620 the ones that are having to pay the price because they are not able to access the news as they would

00:10:30.740 desire. It is being withheld from them. And, and of course, this is harmful. It's harmful to Canadians.

00:10:37.540 Uh, it's harmful to these news outlets. Um, you know, interestingly enough, the government said

00:10:41.940 that Bill C-18 was all about supporting local news stations or, or local newspapers. Um, they're

00:10:48.660 the ones that are going out of business because of this legislation. They're not being helped by it.

00:10:52.500 Again, I'm, I'm getting, you know, emails, you know, for sure a couple a week of local newspapers that

00:10:57.940 are shutting down or having to, you know, let go of employees in order to make ends meet. And it's,

00:11:03.700 it comes down to this legislation. It is killing news in Canada. Um, and so the government got it

00:11:10.820 wrong and I wish that they had the humility to, to walk it back, um, to admit the mistake and to be

00:11:16.500 able to restore access for Canadians. Um, because ultimately at the end of the day, this is squarely on

00:11:22.100 their shoulders. I think too, just to mention, it's not, you know, it's, it's not just day-to-day access to

00:11:28.580 news that is so important. It, it also can be in the midst of crisis, right? So we, we saw where

00:11:35.300 there were fires in the Yukon and people wanted to be able to go on Facebook in order to be able to

00:11:40.020 access, you know, kind of those minute by minute or hour by hour updates in terms of what was going on.

00:11:45.860 Uh, and, and they would log on and they would go to look for this information and it wouldn't be

00:11:50.420 available because it was taken down because of Bill C-18. Um, and so they were, they were not

00:11:55.220 permitted to view, you know, news content in Canada. Uh, we heard from another guy who in order

00:12:00.820 to access news actually, you know, lived, you know, on, on, on the Canada-US border or close to.

00:12:06.900 And so in order to access Canadian news, drove across the border, went to the United States

00:12:11.460 and then accessed from there. So it's these types of, you know, it's these types of scenarios I think

00:12:17.060 that, that are really frustrating to Canadians and, and even harmful to them. Um, which again, I would,

00:12:22.500 I would urge the government to walk back this terrible legislation.

00:12:25.380 Well, former heritage minister, Pablo Rodriguez, he is something else. I got to tell you,

00:12:30.260 that guy is something else. And, and it amazes me that, that he, when asked tough questions,

00:12:38.500 it, it would give him no physical discomfort to act like he's surprised by what we bring forward,

00:12:44.260 right? This is what's going to happen minister. What? I've never heard that before. Like it was,

00:12:49.060 it was seamless on how he reacts to those questions, like no discomfort whatsoever. And

00:12:54.980 you really have to dig that shovel in deep to be able to come up with a path that he, he believes

00:13:00.100 nothing is going to happen and there's no side effects to this legislation.

00:13:04.420 Yeah. It's interesting, right? I think, you know, one of, one of, uh, one of the things that Pablo is

00:13:09.780 known for is, is, you know, for being able to smoothly talk about, you know, pretty much anything and

00:13:14.820 nothing all at the same time. He's a master at that. My goodness. Right? And so, and so he does.

00:13:20.180 So he's, he's said all sorts of things along this journey. Um, some of them contradictory in nature,

00:13:26.900 you know, other things that just simply don't make sense. Uh, and then some things that are just

00:13:31.300 outright lies. They're just not true. Um, again, you know, I would highlight the fact that one of his

00:13:36.180 commitments the entire time or promises to the Canadian people was that Bill C-18 was going to

00:13:41.300 support local news, that it was going to make sure that we had more access when in fact,

00:13:47.620 we're seeing that's not the case. Again, local news is actually being driven out of business because

00:13:52.500 Bill C-18 folks are not getting more access. They're getting far less access to the news because of

00:13:58.580 Bill C-18. So again, you know, if a mistake is made, walk it back, walk it back. It's, it's truly that

00:14:07.060 simple and it's, it's not too late though. Soon it is. Soon it will be. Soon it will be. But an

00:14:11.940 interview that made headlines right around the world was Pierre Polyev's master class interview

00:14:18.740 with that journalist out in British Columbia. I think what made that was him eating an apple.

00:14:23.620 I think, but it wasn't, he wasn't being rude or anything like that. But I think what he did was

00:14:27.540 a couple of things, right? Like Pierre, to his absolute credit was calm and cool, collected,

00:14:33.380 but also called the journalist on the questions, right? Journalists sometimes couch things in

00:14:40.100 language to protect them from what they're going to ask. Maybe a personal bias. In this case, I'm

00:14:45.140 pretty sure it was like other people say, or people say, you know, you're a horrible person,

00:14:50.500 right? Like he, he couched it. Like, it's not me. It's the people, right? I've heard, right? So Pierre,

00:14:57.860 by asking him to reveal where he got his, you know, premise from, he couldn't come up with it

00:15:04.180 because he was showing that personal bias. So, but by accepting it, then going on saying, oh,

00:15:08.980 you know, it's not a page out of Donald Trump, this and that and this. It's, it's accepting that the,

00:15:13.540 the premise was true, which to most people doing an interview, that's what has historically gone on,

00:15:20.500 right? You'd say, oh, I disagree with that, blah, blah, blah. But by even acknowledging it without

00:15:26.020 backup, you create the narrative. And that's how narratives in media begin. Once you lock in,

00:15:31.940 you lock in, right? And Pierre was like, tell me, what page are you talking about? Like,

00:15:36.980 what are we saying that you were able to make that connection? But you can't, you can't. I, I,

00:15:42.020 I don't know about how you took that interview, but I've seen it everywhere around you, Australia,

00:15:46.660 UK, you name it, it's out there. Yeah.

00:15:48.740 Yeah. No, certainly it's, it's had, you know, I think the last time I looked it, it had been had

00:15:54.580 over, over 4 million views. People seem to really be enjoying it. And so I think we have to ask

00:16:00.820 ourselves, well, why did people find it so enjoyable? And I think one of the big reasons why

00:16:06.100 is because I think Pierre, you know, embodied two things that are really key to leadership and,

00:16:14.020 and that Canadians, and I would even say people all over the world are looking for, and that is

00:16:19.060 leaders who are going to be both kind and courageous. You know, in that entire clip,

00:16:26.260 Pierre was kind. Yep. He didn't lose his cool. He wasn't being vindictive. He said nothing,

00:16:31.860 you know, nasty to the journalist. He just simply asked clarifying questions. What am I responding to?

00:16:38.260 What am I responding to? Who said this? Where does that accusation come from? What page in Trump's

00:16:42.420 book? Right. And so, and so I think Pierre was able to, you know, able to kind of push back on

00:16:47.700 the journalist and, and, you know, and, and assert himself, but remained very kind in, in that process.

00:16:54.740 You know, and, and I think what that does then showing that clip and revealing what takes place

00:16:59.860 behind the scenes, it, it actually kind of pulls the curtain back for Canadians and allows them to see

00:17:04.980 some of these things that are going on, uh, when the camera is rolling, but don't, these things don't

00:17:10.340 necessarily make it onto the evening news. Right. And again, I think Canadians appreciate seeing that.

00:17:15.620 They want to know what is that raw side of things? What is going on behind the curtain?

00:17:20.740 Um, and so I, you know, I think, I think there was a lot of delight there for Canadians to have access to

00:17:25.460 that, uh, that dialogue. Um, and of course not, as you mentioned, not, not just Canadians, but, uh,

00:17:32.100 you know, even people all over the world. But I think you're, you're, you know, just to point out as well,

00:17:36.980 um, you know, there's been a number of studies done with regards to trust in journalism,

00:17:42.740 as well as trust in leaders. And we know that it's at an all time low. Um, and, and, you know,

00:17:49.060 a big reason for that is because a lot of assumptions have been made, uh, a lot of presuppositions have

00:17:55.220 been accepted. Um, and also a lot of things have been dictated to people rather than being explained to

00:18:02.100 people. Um, and, and I think, you know, and, and, and Canadians are not sure where to put their face. 0.99

00:18:10.260 And so again, you know, Pierre seeking clarity and wanting to make sure that, that facts were laid on

00:18:17.140 the table, um, I think is really important to restoring trust. Um, again, pulling back the curtain

00:18:23.540 and letting people behind the scenes and to see those things that go on, you know, in a transparent

00:18:28.580 manner, I think again, is, is really key to helping to restore some trust, um, not only in journalists,

00:18:35.060 but also in leaders. Um, in this case, unfortunately, I, I don't think it restored trust in this particular

00:18:41.300 journalist. Um, you know, I think it exposed him perhaps for, for, for what was going on. And that

00:18:46.980 is of course, he was trying to paint, uh, Pierre Polyev into a corner. Yep. He was trying to create a

00:18:51.460 narrative, an untrue narrative, but he was trying to paint that. Totally. Exactly. But again, I think

00:18:57.140 Canadians really appreciate that. They, they appreciate the transparency that was offered to

00:19:01.300 them. Um, and, and again, I think that they really appreciate Pierre's leadership and the fact that

00:19:05.540 he was able to remain both kind, but also courageous. Yeah, I think so too. Absolutely.

00:19:10.100 I think we need like a basket of apples somewhere on the set. I think maybe a centerpiece or even

00:19:14.740 behind. Totally. Where is our apple? We need some apples just to say, you know, well done. A tree.

00:19:19.620 Why don't you just grow a whole tree? I think I should. All right. We're out of time. We got to get to

00:19:23.620 the question period. Your final thoughts, closing thoughts. Yeah, Jamie, you know what? I think more

00:19:28.100 than anything, you know, the conversation today of course has, uh, revolved around the media and,

00:19:32.900 uh, and you know, both Canadians access to it and the trust that we should be putting into it.

00:19:37.940 I think as conservatives, we're certainly, you know, we, we place great value in news being available

00:19:43.460 to Canadians. Uh, we want to make sure that journalists are set free to tell the stories that

00:19:47.860 need to be told, uh, from an unbiased angle. Um, a big part of that is setting the CBC free.

00:19:54.100 Um, and, and I think also, you know, in the meantime, uh, a big part of that is, is, you know,

00:19:59.060 Pierre Polyev, our leader pushing back and to make sure that, uh, you know, that the narrative is,

00:20:03.940 is not, um, not what biased journalists want it to be, but rather, you know, abiding by the truth.

00:20:09.940 Correct. Because Canadians deserve that. They deserve the truth.

00:20:12.340 Absolutely. I couldn't say it better myself. Yeah.

00:20:14.580 Rachel Thomas, thank you very much. Member of parliament for Lethbridge, also the critic for

00:20:18.020 Heritage. We appreciate her time. We appreciate yours as well. Please tell your friends. They

00:20:22.180 can download it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play, and Spotify anytime they like. But we

00:20:26.820 do have new content for you every single Tuesday at 1.30 PM Eastern time. Please, if you're watching

00:20:31.860 this right this second, like, comment, subscribe, and share this program. If you want Pierre Polyev to be

00:20:36.580 the next prime minister, we need to get this message out. And as Rachel Thomas just mentioned,

00:20:40.100 probably not a narrative you're hearing in the mainstream media. So let the, let the ears hear

00:20:44.740 the message. Let the eyes see us in action. So until next Tuesday, remember, low taxes,

00:20:49.940 less government, more freedom. That's the blueprint.

The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - October 27, 2023

Time to Defund the CBC？

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