The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - October 27, 2023


Time to Defund the CBC？


Episode Stats

Length

20 minutes

Words per Minute

180.76389

Word Count

3,772

Sentence Count

222

Hate Speech Sentences

5


Summary

On today's show, we are talking about the nonsensical CBC journalistic standards, also that interview with Pierre Polyev and the Apple out in British Columbia, and much, much more. Rachel Thomas, the MP for Lethbridge-Lethbridge and the Critic for Heritage, joins us to talk about it all.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprints. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your
00:00:09.980 host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton, Kawartha, Lake Sprock, with new
00:00:13.780 content for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. On today's show, we are talking
00:00:18.920 about the nonsensical CBC journalistic standards, also that interview with Pierre Polyev and the
00:00:25.320 Apple out in British Columbia. That and much, much more to talk about this is Rachel Thomas,
00:00:30.620 the Member of Parliament for Lethbridge, also the critic for Heritage. Thanks for joining us.
00:00:34.640 Thanks, Jamie. Good to be with you. All right. Let's talk about your motion,
00:00:37.740 talking about the CBC when they were debating or covering, if you will, the conflict in Israel
00:00:44.880 right now when Hamas went over the border and started to, very sadly and horrifying,
00:00:51.880 killing people, torturing, all of that. There was a directive going out to the reporters,
00:00:58.200 the journalists from on high at the CBC saying you cannot mention terrorism and Hamas in the
00:01:04.540 same sentence. Tell us a bit about that. You put a motion to committee. Yeah, for sure. So what ended
00:01:10.320 up happening was there was a leaked memo and this memo was from the director of journalistic standards
00:01:16.800 at the CBC and he had instructed the staff there to make sure that they didn't use the word terrorist
00:01:22.800 when they described Hamas. And of course, you know, I caught wind of this, as did a few Canadians
00:01:30.440 and was very alarmed by this. Because here's the thing, Hamas is listed by Canada officially
00:01:38.400 as a terrorist organization. And so if the CBC is not willing to call them terrorists, that's a
00:01:45.920 problem. Because they are then disagreeing with the government of Canada and a long-standing
00:01:52.660 definition that we have had for over 20 years. And again, that's official. It's not something up
00:01:58.320 for debate. It's not a matter of opinion. It's determined. And when the CBC was called to task on
00:02:05.740 this, they said, well, the reason why this is their journalistic standard is because they don't
00:02:11.440 want to take sides. And to call Hamas terrorists would be to take sides. For me, this raises the
00:02:20.060 question, if you're not on the side of the innocent and against terrorists, whose side are you on? And
00:02:31.960 how problematic is that then for a public broadcaster to find themselves on that other side? I mean, by
00:02:40.720 failing to declare that Hamas is in fact a terrorist organization is to automatically then side with
00:02:47.620 them. And that's a problem. When we're watching as Hamas entered into Gaza and took out 1,400 people in
00:02:58.040 an evening. They took women and they raped them and murdered them and paraded their naked bodies
00:03:03.940 through the streets. They took 40 babies and beheaded them. I mean, we're talking about a massive
00:03:12.940 massacre. And you're not willing to call those acts terrorists? Terrorism? You're not going to call that
00:03:22.420 group who committed those acts of violence? Terrorists? It just, honestly, I don't even have
00:03:31.620 words for that. Like, I just was so shocked, as were many Canadians, and I think very alarmed,
00:03:37.500 to know that Canadian dollars, taxpayer dollars, are paying for that type of lopsided news coverage,
00:03:45.680 for that type of direction to be given to those who work at the CBC. I think Canadians deserve a whole
00:03:53.740 lot better. So, all that to say, you know, as the critic for Heritage, as the shadow minister,
00:04:00.060 I brought forward a motion at the committee along with Melissa Lansman. She officially moved it.
00:04:05.240 And together, we contended for a study having to do with the CBC and their journalistic standards and
00:04:11.900 whether or not they were appropriate. Unfortunately, you know, at the end of the day, the Liberals
00:04:16.140 voted to suspend it, which means, effectively, they're killing debate. And so, they're not wanting
00:04:22.940 to have the conversation. They're not wanting to look into this issue with regard to the CBC and the
00:04:28.180 journalistic standards that exist there. Yeah, to that point, like, journalism is, the trust in
00:04:33.940 journalism, unfortunately, is at a pretty historic low. I'm a former journalist, you know, I admit that.
00:04:41.040 But at the same time, when you're putting restrictions on what journalists can and can't
00:04:46.960 do and what words they can or can't say, to me, that's pretty problematic. So, like any art,
00:04:53.640 journalism, I would say, is an art as well, because, you know, you have to be a wizard of words
00:04:57.660 sometimes. At that point, you really narrow down, but also put that kind of thought in the journalist's
00:05:06.280 head about how their coverage could be measured, I guess. You know, you can't put those guidelines on.
00:05:14.560 And I think that's the problem that, as Conservatives, we have with the way the CBC operates.
00:05:20.440 So, it's a public broadcaster. They take about $1.2 billion from taxpayers every year in order to run
00:05:26.520 their news coverage. And, you know, and we see that the journalists who work there are given these
00:05:36.000 very clear marching orders in terms of the things that they get to cover and the way that they need
00:05:43.160 to cover them. As Conservatives, we believe that journalists should be entrusted as professionals
00:05:49.800 to take on the stories that they believe are worth telling, and to pursue them from a non-partisan
00:05:58.600 angle, from an unbiased angle, to the best extent possible, a neutral, you know, grounding point.
00:06:07.060 And we just don't see that from the CBC. We just don't. And so, that being the case, as Conservatives,
00:06:13.120 we would very much say the CBC needs to be set free. They need to be set free. Set them free from
00:06:18.120 public dollars, and therefore set them free from all of the cumbersome guidelines, if you will,
00:06:27.640 or standards, as, you know, some might say. Set journalists free from that. Allow them to provide
00:06:33.620 Canadians with real stories, real news from real people. And I think if we were able to get away
00:06:40.120 from partisanship, if we were able to get away from, you know, dictatorial editors, we would be able to
00:06:47.160 restore some trust in the Canadian public. And I think that we've always been trying to get away
00:06:52.840 from the government controlling any kind of media. We saw the government come in now with new kinds of
00:06:57.480 censorship legislation. We'll get to that in a moment. But at the same time, you know, if the
00:07:02.380 government is controlling the pay, the pay stub, the paycheck, it's always, well, I don't want to bite
00:07:10.340 the hand that feeds me sometimes, right? And especially with these liberals, they can be
00:07:14.580 extremely vindictive when they want to be. And, and, you know, trying to make that balance, it's hard
00:07:21.220 to make, especially when you're supposed to be checking the government as a journalist.
00:07:26.020 Well, that's just it, right? So the, you know, journalists are meant to be kind of the watchdog of
00:07:29.860 the nation, right? They're meant to expose stories that perhaps, you know, we, we as politicians,
00:07:35.300 maybe wouldn't want them to expose. Well, that's their job. Their job is to hold us to account.
00:07:40.340 Their job is to make sure that the Canadian public is aware of the decisions that are being made,
00:07:44.340 the things that are going on here on Parliament Hill, and of course, across the country.
00:07:48.980 And, but when, you know, when the CBC, you know, kowtows to the government of the day,
00:07:55.700 that's a problem, right? And so then, of course, we're seeing this scenario where Canadians are
00:08:03.460 putting less and less faith in the media, and are simply just reporting that they're not able to
00:08:08.900 trust the news that they're hearing. Well, when we talk about trust,
00:08:12.900 let's talk about the censorship legislation. All right, we have a very real situation coming on.
00:08:17.940 I know you and others were very forceful, and we had you on the show previously to talk about this,
00:08:23.140 but it was the result of these pieces of legislation, if passed, would happen on local media. And I know
00:08:30.100 myself, I go to local media, look for a story, and especially on Facebook or something like that,
00:08:34.580 it says, this page cannot be displayed. Right? This was a revenue stream for local media
00:08:40.260 to tell local stories, and the government just wiped that off the map.
00:08:44.900 Yeah. So I, it's interesting because, you know, over the last number of months,
00:08:49.220 I've received dozens of text messages and emails from folks who are, you know, taking a screenshot on
00:08:55.860 their phone or their device and sending it my way, where it's showing, you know, this is the news
00:09:00.820 outlet that they're trying to see, but then, you know, it says blocked, cannot display Canadian content
00:09:05.380 because of Bill C18. This is, this is real, this is happening. The government, you know, put this policy in
00:09:12.820 place, you know, that, that would force Google and Facebook to pay, you know, for news links on,
00:09:20.580 you know, if they were to carry news links, or they had to drop news. So they were given an option
00:09:26.580 according to this legislation. And, you know, and so Facebook Meta has determined they are then going
00:09:32.740 to drop it because there's no monetary value in carrying news links for them. And so as a business,
00:09:38.020 they're, they're no longer going to carry it. Um, Google has indicated that they are going to do the
00:09:42.980 same. And, and we can see some of that already happening, though, not fully yet. Uh, they're waiting
00:09:48.260 until the entire regulatory framework is in place. Uh, and the government was warned that this would be
00:09:54.740 the case. Um, and, and expert after expert at, at committee, both within the House of Commons and at
00:10:02.740 Senate, uh, warned the government, told them, you know, this, this was going to be quite detrimental,
00:10:07.540 that it was terrible public policy. Um, the government, you know, continued and, and ultimately,
00:10:14.820 you know, pushed this legislation through without giving it a sober second thought or listening to
00:10:19.620 the experts who were speaking, uh, about its detriments. And unfortunately now Canadians are
00:10:25.620 the ones that are having to pay the price because they are not able to access the news as they would
00:10:30.740 desire. It is being withheld from them. And, and of course, this is harmful. It's harmful to Canadians.
00:10:37.540 Uh, it's harmful to these news outlets. Um, you know, interestingly enough, the government said
00:10:41.940 that Bill C-18 was all about supporting local news stations or, or local newspapers. Um, they're
00:10:48.660 the ones that are going out of business because of this legislation. They're not being helped by it.
00:10:52.500 Again, I'm, I'm getting, you know, emails, you know, for sure a couple a week of local newspapers that
00:10:57.940 are shutting down or having to, you know, let go of employees in order to make ends meet. And it's,
00:11:03.700 it comes down to this legislation. It is killing news in Canada. Um, and so the government got it
00:11:10.820 wrong and I wish that they had the humility to, to walk it back, um, to admit the mistake and to be
00:11:16.500 able to restore access for Canadians. Um, because ultimately at the end of the day, this is squarely on
00:11:22.100 their shoulders. I think too, just to mention, it's not, you know, it's, it's not just day-to-day access to
00:11:28.580 news that is so important. It, it also can be in the midst of crisis, right? So we, we saw where
00:11:35.300 there were fires in the Yukon and people wanted to be able to go on Facebook in order to be able to
00:11:40.020 access, you know, kind of those minute by minute or hour by hour updates in terms of what was going on.
00:11:45.860 Uh, and, and they would log on and they would go to look for this information and it wouldn't be
00:11:50.420 available because it was taken down because of Bill C-18. Um, and so they were, they were not
00:11:55.220 permitted to view, you know, news content in Canada. Uh, we heard from another guy who in order
00:12:00.820 to access news actually, you know, lived, you know, on, on, on the Canada-US border or close to.
00:12:06.900 And so in order to access Canadian news, drove across the border, went to the United States
00:12:11.460 and then accessed from there. So it's these types of, you know, it's these types of scenarios I think
00:12:17.060 that, that are really frustrating to Canadians and, and even harmful to them. Um, which again, I would,
00:12:22.500 I would urge the government to walk back this terrible legislation.
00:12:25.380 Well, former heritage minister, Pablo Rodriguez, he is something else. I got to tell you,
00:12:30.260 that guy is something else. And, and it amazes me that, that he, when asked tough questions,
00:12:38.500 it, it would give him no physical discomfort to act like he's surprised by what we bring forward,
00:12:44.260 right? This is what's going to happen minister. What? I've never heard that before. Like it was,
00:12:49.060 it was seamless on how he reacts to those questions, like no discomfort whatsoever. And
00:12:54.980 you really have to dig that shovel in deep to be able to come up with a path that he, he believes
00:13:00.100 nothing is going to happen and there's no side effects to this legislation.
00:13:04.420 Yeah. It's interesting, right? I think, you know, one of, one of, uh, one of the things that Pablo is
00:13:09.780 known for is, is, you know, for being able to smoothly talk about, you know, pretty much anything and
00:13:14.820 nothing all at the same time. He's a master at that. My goodness. Right? And so, and so he does.
00:13:20.180 So he's, he's said all sorts of things along this journey. Um, some of them contradictory in nature,
00:13:26.900 you know, other things that just simply don't make sense. Uh, and then some things that are just
00:13:31.300 outright lies. They're just not true. Um, again, you know, I would highlight the fact that one of his
00:13:36.180 commitments the entire time or promises to the Canadian people was that Bill C-18 was going to
00:13:41.300 support local news, that it was going to make sure that we had more access when in fact,
00:13:47.620 we're seeing that's not the case. Again, local news is actually being driven out of business because
00:13:52.500 Bill C-18 folks are not getting more access. They're getting far less access to the news because of
00:13:58.580 Bill C-18. So again, you know, if a mistake is made, walk it back, walk it back. It's, it's truly that
00:14:07.060 simple and it's, it's not too late though. Soon it is. Soon it will be. Soon it will be. But an
00:14:11.940 interview that made headlines right around the world was Pierre Polyev's master class interview
00:14:18.740 with that journalist out in British Columbia. I think what made that was him eating an apple.
00:14:23.620 I think, but it wasn't, he wasn't being rude or anything like that. But I think what he did was
00:14:27.540 a couple of things, right? Like Pierre, to his absolute credit was calm and cool, collected,
00:14:33.380 but also called the journalist on the questions, right? Journalists sometimes couch things in
00:14:40.100 language to protect them from what they're going to ask. Maybe a personal bias. In this case, I'm
00:14:45.140 pretty sure it was like other people say, or people say, you know, you're a horrible person,
00:14:50.500 right? Like he, he couched it. Like, it's not me. It's the people, right? I've heard, right? So Pierre,
00:14:57.860 by asking him to reveal where he got his, you know, premise from, he couldn't come up with it
00:15:04.180 because he was showing that personal bias. So, but by accepting it, then going on saying, oh,
00:15:08.980 you know, it's not a page out of Donald Trump, this and that and this. It's, it's accepting that the,
00:15:13.540 the premise was true, which to most people doing an interview, that's what has historically gone on,
00:15:20.500 right? You'd say, oh, I disagree with that, blah, blah, blah. But by even acknowledging it without
00:15:26.020 backup, you create the narrative. And that's how narratives in media begin. Once you lock in,
00:15:31.940 you lock in, right? And Pierre was like, tell me, what page are you talking about? Like,
00:15:36.980 what are we saying that you were able to make that connection? But you can't, you can't. I, I,
00:15:42.020 I don't know about how you took that interview, but I've seen it everywhere around you, Australia,
00:15:46.660 UK, you name it, it's out there. Yeah.
00:15:48.740 Yeah. No, certainly it's, it's had, you know, I think the last time I looked it, it had been had
00:15:54.580 over, over 4 million views. People seem to really be enjoying it. And so I think we have to ask
00:16:00.820 ourselves, well, why did people find it so enjoyable? And I think one of the big reasons why
00:16:06.100 is because I think Pierre, you know, embodied two things that are really key to leadership and,
00:16:14.020 and that Canadians, and I would even say people all over the world are looking for, and that is
00:16:19.060 leaders who are going to be both kind and courageous. You know, in that entire clip,
00:16:26.260 Pierre was kind. Yep. He didn't lose his cool. He wasn't being vindictive. He said nothing,
00:16:31.860 you know, nasty to the journalist. He just simply asked clarifying questions. What am I responding to?
00:16:38.260 What am I responding to? Who said this? Where does that accusation come from? What page in Trump's
00:16:42.420 book? Right. And so, and so I think Pierre was able to, you know, able to kind of push back on
00:16:47.700 the journalist and, and, you know, and, and assert himself, but remained very kind in, in that process.
00:16:54.740 You know, and, and I think what that does then showing that clip and revealing what takes place
00:16:59.860 behind the scenes, it, it actually kind of pulls the curtain back for Canadians and allows them to see
00:17:04.980 some of these things that are going on, uh, when the camera is rolling, but don't, these things don't
00:17:10.340 necessarily make it onto the evening news. Right. And again, I think Canadians appreciate seeing that.
00:17:15.620 They want to know what is that raw side of things? What is going on behind the curtain?
00:17:20.740 Um, and so I, you know, I think, I think there was a lot of delight there for Canadians to have access to
00:17:25.460 that, uh, that dialogue. Um, and of course not, as you mentioned, not, not just Canadians, but, uh,
00:17:32.100 you know, even people all over the world. But I think you're, you're, you know, just to point out as well,
00:17:36.980 um, you know, there's been a number of studies done with regards to trust in journalism,
00:17:42.740 as well as trust in leaders. And we know that it's at an all time low. Um, and, and, you know,
00:17:49.060 a big reason for that is because a lot of assumptions have been made, uh, a lot of presuppositions have
00:17:55.220 been accepted. Um, and also a lot of things have been dictated to people rather than being explained to
00:18:02.100 people. Um, and, and I think, you know, and, and, and Canadians are not sure where to put their face.
00:18:10.260 And so again, you know, Pierre seeking clarity and wanting to make sure that, that facts were laid on
00:18:17.140 the table, um, I think is really important to restoring trust. Um, again, pulling back the curtain
00:18:23.540 and letting people behind the scenes and to see those things that go on, you know, in a transparent
00:18:28.580 manner, I think again, is, is really key to helping to restore some trust, um, not only in journalists,
00:18:35.060 but also in leaders. Um, in this case, unfortunately, I, I don't think it restored trust in this particular
00:18:41.300 journalist. Um, you know, I think it exposed him perhaps for, for, for what was going on. And that
00:18:46.980 is of course, he was trying to paint, uh, Pierre Polyev into a corner. Yep. He was trying to create a
00:18:51.460 narrative, an untrue narrative, but he was trying to paint that. Totally. Exactly. But again, I think
00:18:57.140 Canadians really appreciate that. They, they appreciate the transparency that was offered to
00:19:01.300 them. Um, and, and again, I think that they really appreciate Pierre's leadership and the fact that
00:19:05.540 he was able to remain both kind, but also courageous. Yeah, I think so too. Absolutely.
00:19:10.100 I think we need like a basket of apples somewhere on the set. I think maybe a centerpiece or even
00:19:14.740 behind. Totally. Where is our apple? We need some apples just to say, you know, well done. A tree.
00:19:19.620 Why don't you just grow a whole tree? I think I should. All right. We're out of time. We got to get to
00:19:23.620 the question period. Your final thoughts, closing thoughts. Yeah, Jamie, you know what? I think more
00:19:28.100 than anything, you know, the conversation today of course has, uh, revolved around the media and,
00:19:32.900 uh, and you know, both Canadians access to it and the trust that we should be putting into it.
00:19:37.940 I think as conservatives, we're certainly, you know, we, we place great value in news being available
00:19:43.460 to Canadians. Uh, we want to make sure that journalists are set free to tell the stories that
00:19:47.860 need to be told, uh, from an unbiased angle. Um, a big part of that is setting the CBC free.
00:19:54.100 Um, and, and I think also, you know, in the meantime, uh, a big part of that is, is, you know,
00:19:59.060 Pierre Polyev, our leader pushing back and to make sure that, uh, you know, that the narrative is,
00:20:03.940 is not, um, not what biased journalists want it to be, but rather, you know, abiding by the truth.
00:20:09.940 Correct. Because Canadians deserve that. They deserve the truth.
00:20:12.340 Absolutely. I couldn't say it better myself. Yeah.
00:20:14.580 Rachel Thomas, thank you very much. Member of parliament for Lethbridge, also the critic for
00:20:18.020 Heritage. We appreciate her time. We appreciate yours as well. Please tell your friends. They
00:20:22.180 can download it on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play, and Spotify anytime they like. But we
00:20:26.820 do have new content for you every single Tuesday at 1.30 PM Eastern time. Please, if you're watching
00:20:31.860 this right this second, like, comment, subscribe, and share this program. If you want Pierre Polyev to be
00:20:36.580 the next prime minister, we need to get this message out. And as Rachel Thomas just mentioned,
00:20:40.100 probably not a narrative you're hearing in the mainstream media. So let the, let the ears hear
00:20:44.740 the message. Let the eyes see us in action. So until next Tuesday, remember, low taxes,
00:20:49.940 less government, more freedom. That's the blueprint.