The Blueprint: Canada's Conservative Podcast - May 30, 2019


Trudeau is making life more unaffordable for Canadians


Episode Stats

Length

15 minutes

Words per Minute

173.27164

Word Count

2,721

Sentence Count

180

Hate Speech Sentences

3


Summary

In this episode of The Blueprint, Conservative MP Kelly McCauley and Tory MP Tom Kamich discuss the challenges faced by first-time homebuyers, millennials, and families in the housing market. They talk about how the federal government is stifling opportunities for home buyers, and how this is hurting the real estate market.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 You're listening to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:00:07.340 The cost of living keeps going up, deficits keep going up,
00:00:11.120 and he has to raise taxes to pay for his out-of-control spending.
00:00:15.880 Talk is cheap, except when this finance minister does it.
00:00:19.220 It's very expensive.
00:00:21.980 It's the fact that he punished two strong women for doing the right thing
00:00:26.500 while he moved hell and high water to protect his buddies at SNC-Lavalin
00:00:31.580 from facing a day in court.
00:00:41.340 This is The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:00:44.360 I'm your host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton Corthalikes Brock.
00:00:48.140 Our topic this week is affordability.
00:00:51.640 Welcome to The Blueprint, Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:00:54.260 With me is Kelly McCauley, the Member of Parliament for Edmonton West,
00:00:58.220 home of the Edmonton Mall.
00:00:59.600 Also Tom Kamich, he's the Member of Parliament for Calgary Shepherd.
00:01:03.480 Two Albertans here today, and one Ontarian.
00:01:05.940 Thank you, gentlemen, for joining us.
00:01:07.640 Our topic today, and it's a long one, so let's get right into it.
00:01:11.160 Affordability.
00:01:11.740 That seems to be a topic we're hearing a lot about.
00:01:14.660 Just general Canadians trying to get by with less.
00:01:18.300 Tom, I know you are heavily into this topic,
00:01:21.260 especially on the housing side and elsewhere.
00:01:24.720 Maybe you can tell us a bit about how the CMHC,
00:01:28.700 how the government claims they're helping first-time homebuyers
00:01:31.640 and people trying to continue on in the housing market.
00:01:34.800 That's a long topic.
00:01:35.620 Maybe I'll just leave that to you, and you can tell us a bit about that.
00:01:38.720 Yeah, Jamie, that's a lot to chew off.
00:01:41.400 The basics of what I tell people is back in 2015,
00:01:44.660 you had a pretty good real estate market going,
00:01:47.200 and people were making judicious decisions about how much down payment they needed,
00:01:52.180 the type of hope they wanted to do, and everything was within reach.
00:01:55.220 You could actually buy the type of home that you wanted,
00:01:59.120 maybe not necessarily the one you needed.
00:02:00.680 So maybe you'd give up an extra room or you'd make some adjustments,
00:02:03.540 but it was still manageable.
00:02:05.600 Today, in 2019, that's not possible anymore for a lot of first-time homebuyers,
00:02:10.760 and especially young people, millennials, iGens,
00:02:13.320 whatever you want to call that generation that's following the millennials,
00:02:15.760 are being priced out of the market, partially,
00:02:18.940 but successive decisions by the federal government have basically pushed them out,
00:02:23.220 and we're going to have a nation of renters,
00:02:25.160 kind of like a neo-feudal state of affairs
00:02:27.560 where the entire generation coming after us,
00:02:30.660 all they can expect to do is to rent.
00:02:32.980 You've had a series of rate hikes
00:02:35.060 and a very damaging decision by the liberal government
00:02:38.960 to introduce the B-20 rule changes.
00:02:41.420 And just to make it super simple for people at home,
00:02:43.400 it's a stress test on your mortgage,
00:02:45.360 and it adds 2% that you have to qualify for
00:02:48.620 on an insured mortgage that is fixed.
00:02:51.300 Fixed five-year term,
00:02:52.620 let's say you get a good deal,
00:02:53.720 you negotiate with your bank because you're responsible,
00:02:56.440 they offer you 2.99, 3%,
00:02:58.480 you've got to pass it as if it's 5%,
00:03:00.540 totally ignoring the fact that your income
00:03:03.000 is likely going to rise in the next five years,
00:03:05.280 and your interest rate is not going to rise
00:03:07.280 because you've got a fixed-rate mortgage.
00:03:08.720 That's why you did that.
00:03:09.800 So it's a bad policy decision.
00:03:12.300 It's priced about 100,000 people out of the market so far,
00:03:16.180 and it's cost the Canadian economy
00:03:19.440 about 200,000 construction jobs from here until 2021.
00:03:24.240 Now, how are you seeing this in Calgary?
00:03:25.900 Obviously, you have your own set of challenges
00:03:28.500 somewhat unique to different parts of Canada.
00:03:30.500 How is that affecting your constituency?
00:03:34.000 And I think, Kelly, you might be able to add something too.
00:03:36.580 So yeah, in Calgary,
00:03:37.540 I can give you the Calgary experience.
00:03:38.860 It's prices are down about 3% to 4%,
00:03:41.260 and that has a huge impact on the city
00:03:44.200 with the highest unemployment rate in Canada right now,
00:03:46.980 the highest underemployment rate in Canada right now.
00:03:49.820 People have lost their homes.
00:03:51.580 They've burned through their severances.
00:03:53.520 They're still waiting on the oil and gas sector
00:03:55.280 to bounce back,
00:03:56.140 and that's not happening
00:03:56.920 because the Liberals are obstructing
00:03:58.500 the construction of new pipelines.
00:04:00.500 They're also obstructing
00:04:01.480 the construction of the pipeline that they own,
00:04:03.840 which is even weirder if you're from Calgary.
00:04:05.920 And the next part is,
00:04:07.940 if prices keep sliding,
00:04:09.680 it's a disincentive to sell your home.
00:04:11.700 If I'm not selling my home,
00:04:13.140 you're not buying my home.
00:04:14.520 And so that natural movement doesn't happen.
00:04:17.080 If my mortgage and the value of my house,
00:04:19.740 I'm underwater,
00:04:20.460 and I'm going to lose all the equity I put in,
00:04:22.380 I have no reason to sell.
00:04:23.680 It's better to stay in the home.
00:04:25.200 And that's the situation a lot of Calgarians find themselves in.
00:04:28.040 Absolutely.
00:04:28.580 Are you finding the same thing in Edmonton?
00:04:29.820 We've got a very similar situation in Edmonton
00:04:33.240 as we do in Calgary.
00:04:34.960 You know,
00:04:35.100 high unemployment caused by the Liberal policies.
00:04:38.040 And the whole issue with the housing market,
00:04:40.120 it's a self-inflicted wound
00:04:41.700 inflicted on average Canadians
00:04:43.820 by this Liberal government.
00:04:45.900 People cannot,
00:04:47.780 you know,
00:04:47.980 they can afford to buy a house,
00:04:49.680 but they can't qualify.
00:04:51.200 It's pushing housing prices down.
00:04:53.460 People are trying to get out of their homes
00:04:54.980 because they're in a situation
00:04:56.180 where they're unemployed
00:04:57.040 or suffering from the downturn in the economy
00:05:00.900 cannot sell the house.
00:05:03.220 Average price of the house is dropping.
00:05:05.260 Mortgages are underwater.
00:05:07.120 They owe more than the house is worth.
00:05:09.420 Comes time to renew their mortgage.
00:05:13.860 They're stuck with their own bank
00:05:15.780 because they can't shop around
00:05:16.940 because of the B20 rule.
00:05:18.840 Banks are taking advantage of them,
00:05:20.700 charging them higher interest rates.
00:05:22.440 It's a vicious circle.
00:05:24.140 Absolutely.
00:05:24.640 And you talked about renters.
00:05:25.500 Here in Ontario specifically,
00:05:28.240 the former Liberal government
00:05:29.580 under Kathleen Wynne
00:05:30.500 changed the Landlord-Tenant Act,
00:05:32.720 basically skewing it so far
00:05:35.080 on the side of the tenants
00:05:37.860 that no new rental units
00:05:40.020 are coming on the market,
00:05:40.980 which if you just use
00:05:41.900 supply and demand economics,
00:05:43.920 which is basically how everything works,
00:05:46.280 you are raising the prices
00:05:48.380 of even the worst units
00:05:50.320 and the bad actors have no incentive.
00:05:52.600 Even here in Ottawa,
00:05:53.920 the vacancy rate is extremely low
00:05:56.660 and causing rents to go up
00:05:59.340 and again going into the affordability side of it.
00:06:03.700 You've hit it right on the head.
00:06:05.080 It's always a series of decisions
00:06:07.000 that governments make.
00:06:08.360 Sometimes you have two levels of government.
00:06:10.100 So on the issue of affordability,
00:06:12.040 making life easier for people
00:06:13.260 to make ends meet at the end of the month,
00:06:15.360 the combination of Kathleen Wynne
00:06:17.340 with Justin Trudeau
00:06:18.760 between Queen's Park in Toronto
00:06:20.700 and here in the federal parliament in Ottawa
00:06:22.760 has been devastating for most families
00:06:24.880 in terms of affording the house
00:06:26.680 you want to build it.
00:06:27.420 And we heard from the
00:06:28.600 Ontario Real Estate Association
00:06:30.560 that the series of decisions made
00:06:34.120 by previous governments
00:06:35.060 have raised the cost
00:06:36.540 of building a unit of housing
00:06:38.180 in the Toronto area
00:06:39.280 by $100,000.
00:06:41.360 That's not even like
00:06:42.660 the cost of closing
00:06:43.800 and selling the home
00:06:44.800 and advertising it
00:06:45.860 and people purchasing it
00:06:47.240 and the land transfer taxes.
00:06:49.200 So homeowners of any sort,
00:06:51.300 first time young people,
00:06:52.580 people who are downsizing,
00:06:54.080 you're being nickel and dimed
00:06:55.220 every single way
00:06:56.060 courtesy of different levels
00:06:57.180 of government
00:06:57.640 which are trying to extract
00:06:59.540 a pound of flesh out of you
00:07:01.060 and it's just not fair.
00:07:02.600 And this can't continue forever
00:07:03.860 because our wages
00:07:04.780 aren't going up fast enough right now.
00:07:06.860 That's right.
00:07:07.200 And so Kelly,
00:07:08.900 when you are in Edmonton,
00:07:10.280 you must have roundtables,
00:07:11.280 you must be talking to people.
00:07:12.560 What are they saying
00:07:13.900 in the overall affordability?
00:07:15.420 How are they looking at this
00:07:17.060 on how to get out of it?
00:07:18.380 You just had a provincial election
00:07:19.800 and basically that campaign
00:07:21.500 was run on affordability,
00:07:23.560 was jobs.
00:07:24.920 Well, it's very much a job issue.
00:07:26.740 We have a saying that
00:07:27.620 every liberal policy has a victim
00:07:29.400 and what we're seeing is
00:07:31.540 every liberal policy,
00:07:33.380 whether it's trying to phase out
00:07:34.640 our oil sands,
00:07:35.680 increasing taxes,
00:07:38.380 cutting tax breaks for families
00:07:39.980 has a victim.
00:07:40.980 It's the everyday person
00:07:43.440 living in Edmonton
00:07:44.200 and the rest of Canada.
00:07:45.540 What we see with this government
00:07:46.840 because of their policies,
00:07:49.300 they're attacking our oil industry
00:07:51.520 but it's affecting
00:07:52.220 our housing industry as well.
00:07:53.620 It's one of our largest employers,
00:07:55.900 high-pay, skilled jobs.
00:07:57.740 They're being driven out of the city.
00:08:00.880 People cannot afford houses.
00:08:03.240 People cannot,
00:08:04.000 even if they can't afford it,
00:08:05.760 they don't qualify for the mortgage.
00:08:07.940 Edmonton recently,
00:08:09.420 the Alberta Treasury branch,
00:08:11.760 ATB,
00:08:12.240 announced that in January
00:08:13.420 we had the highest amount
00:08:14.620 of vacant homes
00:08:15.860 in Alberta or Edmonton history,
00:08:18.160 almost 2,000 homes
00:08:19.700 ready to be sold,
00:08:21.420 ready to be moved into.
00:08:23.340 They cannot sell
00:08:24.180 and that's a horrible knock-on effect
00:08:26.020 throughout the economy.
00:08:26.760 Absolutely.
00:08:27.140 People doing renovations,
00:08:31.800 the real estate market,
00:08:33.120 the banking market,
00:08:34.300 every unsold home
00:08:35.760 is a hit of about $50,000
00:08:37.920 to the local economy.
00:08:39.720 And I guess to Tom's point,
00:08:41.420 a series of bad decisions
00:08:42.940 made by provincial NDP government,
00:08:45.480 federal liberal government
00:08:46.620 is causing this.
00:08:49.020 Government policies and decisions
00:08:50.880 have consequences
00:08:51.900 and you're right.
00:08:52.900 There are victims
00:08:53.800 in these decisions
00:08:55.580 and it's absolutely hurting
00:08:57.140 the everyday person.
00:08:58.380 It's very much everything they do.
00:09:00.720 Cutting the TFSA,
00:09:02.680 the tax-free savings account,
00:09:03.940 in half
00:09:04.420 stops, prohibits young people
00:09:07.220 from being able to save
00:09:08.180 tax-free for a house.
00:09:10.300 Eliminating the income splitting
00:09:13.880 for parents,
00:09:15.000 again,
00:09:15.680 reduces affordability,
00:09:17.380 people's ability to save
00:09:18.560 for a house.
00:09:19.940 The B20 rule that Tom mentions
00:09:21.740 makes it more difficult
00:09:22.960 to qualify for a mortgage.
00:09:25.480 It hits every step of the way.
00:09:27.740 So the Liberals announced plans
00:09:29.040 in their budgets
00:09:29.680 to tinker with a few things
00:09:31.640 with the CMHC in particular.
00:09:33.380 Now, I know, Tom,
00:09:34.260 that gets you foaming
00:09:35.180 at the mouth here.
00:09:36.100 Maybe you can talk a bit about
00:09:38.720 some of the changes
00:09:39.760 they,
00:09:40.880 they being the Liberals,
00:09:42.460 think are going to help
00:09:43.520 not just first-time homebuyers,
00:09:44.900 but also people looking
00:09:46.080 to continue in the market.
00:09:48.000 So yes,
00:09:48.300 CMHC is my four-letter word
00:09:50.300 in my office.
00:09:51.680 And we,
00:09:52.480 so the Liberals have,
00:09:53.260 they've made a lot of decisions on it.
00:09:55.520 I'll give you a couple of examples.
00:09:57.180 The CEO of CMHC told us
00:09:59.100 that the Crown Corporation,
00:10:01.380 owned by all Canadians,
00:10:02.560 like we all have a stake in it
00:10:04.620 because it's owned by the government,
00:10:06.300 he told me
00:10:07.060 at a committee hearing
00:10:08.360 that they found out
00:10:09.820 they were going to manage
00:10:10.720 this new government program
00:10:11.960 of shared equity mortgages.
00:10:13.440 he told his board
00:10:14.660 the night of the budget.
00:10:16.460 Like,
00:10:16.820 if you run
00:10:17.420 a multi-billion dollar corporation,
00:10:19.280 you would think
00:10:19.920 that the board of directors
00:10:21.000 would be told
00:10:22.180 about a $1.25 billion program
00:10:24.780 they're taking on
00:10:25.700 a little bit earlier
00:10:26.780 than the night of the budget.
00:10:28.880 And then the math
00:10:29.500 doesn't make sense,
00:10:30.320 which is pretty typical
00:10:31.100 for the Liberals
00:10:31.780 when they promised
00:10:32.460 a billion dollar surplus
00:10:33.500 this year
00:10:34.100 and we have a
00:10:35.120 20-plus billion dollar
00:10:36.720 deficit instead.
00:10:38.120 And as the spread of that
00:10:39.420 is just ridiculous,
00:10:40.860 they promised $1.25 billion
00:10:42.640 for shared equity mortgages.
00:10:44.520 Government will take
00:10:45.120 a 5% stake in your home
00:10:46.700 to help you out
00:10:47.580 with the down payment.
00:10:48.740 Well,
00:10:49.100 the average price of a home
00:10:50.680 in Toronto
00:10:51.400 is $767,000.
00:10:53.840 Average price of a home
00:10:55.040 in Canada
00:10:55.760 is about $750,000.
00:10:58.860 If you just take those numbers
00:11:00.140 on that average
00:11:01.000 of what they would be estimating,
00:11:02.900 they think about
00:11:03.660 100,000 first-time homebuyers
00:11:05.780 will be helped
00:11:06.760 by this policy.
00:11:07.520 But the numbers
00:11:08.020 don't make sense.
00:11:08.900 My numbers come out
00:11:09.760 about $52,000 to $53,000.
00:11:11.920 When I've asked
00:11:12.660 the Canadian Real Estate Association,
00:11:14.300 when I've asked
00:11:14.720 the Ontario Real Estate Association,
00:11:16.440 others in the field,
00:11:17.520 how did you get
00:11:18.100 to the $100,000?
00:11:19.220 Because they're repeating
00:11:20.040 the number.
00:11:20.980 Everybody tells me
00:11:21.600 the same thing.
00:11:22.400 Oh, we're just following
00:11:23.220 what's said in the budget.
00:11:24.260 We're just following
00:11:24.780 what CMHC is telling us.
00:11:26.680 And CMHC can't tell me
00:11:28.260 how they get to the number,
00:11:29.620 but I can tell you
00:11:30.360 how they do.
00:11:31.280 Their average price
00:11:32.920 for a home
00:11:33.340 they're thinking
00:11:34.160 it could be
00:11:34.680 is $240,000.
00:11:35.860 You cannot buy a house
00:11:37.940 in Toronto,
00:11:39.040 in Calgary,
00:11:39.880 in Vancouver,
00:11:41.040 probably in Edmonton,
00:11:41.960 in many places.
00:11:43.140 Not from that.
00:11:43.800 All across the country,
00:11:44.700 those are not
00:11:45.400 the range of prices
00:11:46.760 that are made available.
00:11:48.200 And the CMHC
00:11:49.100 is also transferring
00:11:50.660 massive dividends
00:11:51.780 on a quarterly basis.
00:11:53.780 They have transferred
00:11:54.720 $5.675 billion
00:11:56.920 last year
00:11:58.000 to federal government coffers.
00:11:59.160 But that's never happened
00:11:59.860 before, correct?
00:12:00.980 That has not happened
00:12:01.660 in 20 plus years
00:12:02.760 of the Crown Corporation
00:12:03.800 operating in Canada.
00:12:05.560 It is basically a tax,
00:12:07.360 a hidden tax
00:12:08.100 on home buyers
00:12:09.200 and home owners.
00:12:10.540 And it's a really big deal.
00:12:11.980 It's a stealth tax
00:12:13.180 that the liberals
00:12:13.720 have introduced
00:12:14.500 on anybody
00:12:15.480 who has dreams
00:12:16.160 of home ownership.
00:12:17.000 And I'll give you a stat.
00:12:18.180 When the Canadian
00:12:18.920 Real Estate Association
00:12:19.860 put out a survey
00:12:20.580 just a few weeks ago,
00:12:21.420 they did,
00:12:22.240 over 80%
00:12:23.160 of new Canadians
00:12:24.360 and young people,
00:12:25.980 millennials,
00:12:26.880 still aspire
00:12:28.140 to home ownership.
00:12:29.740 60% of them,
00:12:31.040 of that 80,
00:12:32.300 are passionate about it.
00:12:34.580 All of them
00:12:35.080 are being priced
00:12:35.740 out of the market.
00:12:37.100 And every single group
00:12:38.320 and organization
00:12:39.200 in the field,
00:12:40.060 in the business
00:12:40.640 has told me the same thing.
00:12:42.660 B20 stress test
00:12:43.800 and its impact
00:12:44.640 is not offset
00:12:45.800 by anything
00:12:46.660 the liberals have proposed.
00:12:48.160 So the government meddled,
00:12:49.840 it messed up the market
00:12:50.940 and now it's meddling again.
00:12:52.680 A big government problem
00:12:54.100 deserves a big government solution
00:12:56.240 and the little guy
00:12:57.300 at the end of the day
00:12:57.940 is stuck putting the bill.
00:12:59.260 Well, the only solution
00:13:00.060 to a failed government program
00:13:01.300 is another government program.
00:13:02.400 That's right, yeah.
00:13:03.280 How else would you do it?
00:13:05.060 Exactly.
00:13:05.600 And it's just unbelievable
00:13:07.000 that this is what passes
00:13:08.260 for good public policy
00:13:09.680 in a place like this.
00:13:10.760 It took them four years
00:13:12.160 to brew this bizarre program
00:13:15.640 that, by the way,
00:13:16.540 failed in British Columbia
00:13:17.660 when they introduced it.
00:13:19.080 And in other parts of the world,
00:13:21.020 it is done.
00:13:21.900 There are shared equity mortgages
00:13:23.440 all across the world,
00:13:24.340 but they're done
00:13:24.680 by the private sector
00:13:25.720 with private money,
00:13:26.900 not taxpayer money.
00:13:28.380 Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:13:29.880 So, Kelly,
00:13:30.840 we only have a little bit left here,
00:13:32.920 but maybe...
00:13:33.780 Tom's brought up some good points.
00:13:35.960 And to put it into context,
00:13:37.240 the money transferred
00:13:38.460 from CMHC,
00:13:40.180 which is basically
00:13:40.780 from taxpayers' pockets
00:13:42.220 over to the government,
00:13:43.400 is the equivalent
00:13:44.400 every year
00:13:45.220 of the carbon tax.
00:13:46.960 And imagine,
00:13:47.680 you know,
00:13:48.680 the outrage of Canadians
00:13:50.140 over the carbon tax,
00:13:52.560 $5.5 billion
00:13:53.640 taken right from Canadians' pockets
00:13:56.440 and taken by the government.
00:13:58.420 And it's not revenue neutral.
00:13:59.920 It is not revenue neutral.
00:14:01.700 100% not revenue neutral.
00:14:03.240 And we did a town hall recently,
00:14:05.280 and we were talking
00:14:06.600 with industry experts
00:14:07.860 from banking industry
00:14:09.620 and house builders,
00:14:11.020 and they all had the same comment
00:14:12.940 about this equity,
00:14:14.780 is would you want the government
00:14:16.540 owning a part of your house?
00:14:19.280 The biggest investment
00:14:20.160 you will make in your life.
00:14:21.760 You've seen how government operates,
00:14:24.320 the ineptness,
00:14:25.560 their inability
00:14:26.040 to get anything done,
00:14:27.120 and it's just the people
00:14:28.000 you want owning
00:14:29.040 a part of your life.
00:14:30.860 Well, it worked so well
00:14:31.260 in the Soviet Union.
00:14:32.840 Yes.
00:14:34.320 The same people
00:14:35.160 who brought you
00:14:35.560 to the Phoenix Bay system
00:14:36.720 are offering to help you
00:14:38.740 out with your house.
00:14:40.640 They'll tell you exactly
00:14:41.600 where you get to live
00:14:42.680 and what your unit looks like, right?
00:14:43.860 Very much.
00:14:44.520 And, you know,
00:14:44.900 we're going down that path.
00:14:46.160 They're talking about,
00:14:47.660 you know,
00:14:47.840 the government wants to direct
00:14:48.800 how you drive,
00:14:49.840 where you drive,
00:14:50.720 what you drive,
00:14:51.700 what you use your car for,
00:14:53.020 and how they want to
00:14:53.740 tell you about your house.
00:14:56.120 Absolutely.
00:14:57.040 Well, thank you so much,
00:14:58.020 gentlemen,
00:14:58.200 for coming by
00:14:58.860 and talking about affordability.
00:15:00.540 We had Kelly McCauley
00:15:01.420 from Edmonton,
00:15:02.860 West Edmonton,
00:15:03.520 Edmonton West.
00:15:04.080 Edmonton West,
00:15:04.640 home of the West Edmonton Mall.
00:15:06.740 And Tom Kamich,
00:15:08.140 Member of Parliament
00:15:08.700 for Calgary Shepherd.
00:15:10.660 Gentlemen,
00:15:11.020 thank you so much.
00:15:11.820 I'm your host,
00:15:12.360 Jamie Schmiel.
00:15:12.940 This is The Blueprint,
00:15:14.160 Canada's Conservative Podcast,
00:15:15.600 and remember,
00:15:16.560 low taxes,
00:15:17.140 less government,
00:15:18.460 more freedom.
00:15:19.520 That's The Blueprint.
00:15:26.420 Thank you for listening to The Blueprint,
00:15:28.280 Canada's Conservative Podcast.
00:15:31.000 To find more episodes,
00:15:32.460 interviews,
00:15:32.880 and in-depth discussions
00:15:33.820 of politics in Canada,
00:15:35.300 search for The Blueprint
00:15:36.160 on iTunes
00:15:36.820 or visit podcast.conservative.ca.
00:15:39.660 Thank you.
00:15:40.200 Thank you.
00:15:41.040 Thank you.
00:15:41.860 Thank you.