Trudeau’s misuse of the Emergencies Act
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Summary
In this episode of The Blueprints, we continue our conversation with Public Safety Critic Dane Lloyd about the events that took place on the Ambassador Bridge on July 19th, 2019, when the government invoked the Emergency Preparedness Act to respond to the protests in the streets of Ottawa.
Transcript
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Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprints. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm your
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host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton, Kawartha-Legs Brock, with new content
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for you every single Tuesday, 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time. We ask that you like, subscribe, comment,
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share this program. Help us push back against the ever-moving Liberal agenda. Of course,
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if you can't listen or watch it in its entirety right this second, download it, listen to it
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on platforms like CastBox, iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, you name it, it is out there. We've got
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another great show for you today. We're going to follow up on what we talked about last week with
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Raquel Dancho, the Member of Parliament for Kildonan St. Paul, also the public safety critic for His
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Majesty's loyal opposition, and that was the Emergencies Act. Was or is the bar met to have
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the government invoke the Emergencies Act on the convoy in Ottawa just a few months ago? And to
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continue that conversation, we have a good friend of the show, Dane Lloyd, the Member of Parliament
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for Sturgeon River Parkland. He's also the Emergency Preparedness Critic. Thank you very much for coming
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back. Well, thank you for having me, Jamie. Lots more things happened a week ago. In one week,
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we have got a lot more information. And let's start with the one that's kind of hitting the headlines
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we talked about this week in question period even. It's the fact that through the whole thing,
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Bill Blair, the Emergency Preparedness Minister, and one time the Public Safety Minister, said
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there was no police, the government interference inside the whole process. Nothing. But then you
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start getting more and more testimony that's coming out that's saying, yeah, you know what,
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there doesn't seem the bar not being hit, right? The Ambassador Bridge was cleared. Cootes, Alberta
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was cleared. Your working committee, no firearms that were claimed to be in Ottawa, were found,
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were seized. It just keeps unraveling that the bar had not been met. Well, yeah. And I think we're also
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talking about two different things here. So yesterday in question period, we were talking
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about recent audio recordings that had revealed an April 28th meeting with RCMP Commissioner Luckey
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and her subordinates, where she quite clearly said that the Minister's office had requested that they
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released confidential evidence about the ongoing Nova Scotia mass shooting investigation. And we have
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to remember that the Minister, and she also said the Minister was involved. She was talking with the
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Minister about this. It was a request from the Minister. And yet, you know, all during the summer
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before this audio recording was revealed, the Minister and the Commissioner all claimed that there
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was no political interference of any kind. There was no attempt to interfere in the RCMP communications.
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But the audio recording says otherwise. So we're fighting to get to the bottom of this.
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But it also, you know, comes back to what we're talking about with the Emergencies Act.
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We've seen from the government that, you know, they've been playing fast and loose with the truth.
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We were told when the Emergencies Act was invoked that it was law enforcement that had asked the
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government to do this. But lo and behold, as we ask law enforcement everywhere from Parliamentary
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Protective Service, the Ottawa Police, the OPP, all the way up to the RCMP, none of them will actually
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admit. In fact, none of them have said that they asked the government to invoke the Emergencies Act.
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And just this week, we have further evidence of confidential evidence that just came to light
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that RCMP Commissioner Lucky, on the day I believe the Emergencies Act was invoked,
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told the Minister of Public Safety that they had not exhausted all of the avenues, all of the legal
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tools and authorities that they had available to deal with the protests. And so we all know that
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one of the justifications that needs to be fulfilled before invoking the Emergencies Act is the
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government has to prove that there were no other powers or authorities available, no tools in the
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toolbox available before invoking the Act. When the RCMP Commissioner is saying there were still tools
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in the toolbox that hadn't been used, it's blowing a big hole in the government's argument for invoking
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Absolutely. Considering we were told that public safety was at risk, that all these things,
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there was that one time, I remember in the media reading that there was Russian interference and
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dark money coming to fund the protesters and all that has so far turned out to be false.
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Well, I think, you know, this is a case, I think the government was in a black spin.
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They didn't know what to do. They were going to throw as much mud at the wall as they could and
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hope something stuck. So we were hearing everything from there was possibility that the Russians were
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funding the convoy, which the CBC actually had to apologize for airing that, you know, suggestion
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that that had happened. We've seen allegations that there were firearms in the protest, an
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allegation that has never been proven. We had members of the government and members of the NDP
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standing up in the House and claiming that convoy protesters tried to burn down a building full of
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residents in downtown Ottawa. The OPP came out later and said, no, these two people had no connection
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to the convoy protests. It had nothing to do with the convoy protests. And so the more we look into
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this, the more we realize that there is a tremendous amount of misinformation that this
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government has been pumping on this issue. And I don't think this commission report is going to look
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very favorably on the federal government. So the committee is the committee still looking into the
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the the emergencies act. I know there's the inquiry, but also the committee, you said,
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is doing some work? Well, there's really a two track process here that was set up under the
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legislation. And, you know, you have to remember this legislation was set up as an accountability
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mechanism to ensure that governments did not abuse Canadian civil liberties and national security
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situations. And so the act is working as it should be. We have the committee track, which is made up of
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parliamentarians, which is currently doing an open review. And then we have the committee of inquiry
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headed by Justice Rouleau that's also doing important work. And I believe that both these committees
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have an essential function in our democracy. Rebuilding trust in our institutions is so
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important because we've seen how the Liberals have wrecked Canadians' trusts in the institutions
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because of what we believe to be their abuse of the Emergencies Act. And so part of this process
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is about rebuilding trust, showing transparency, showing accountability. And we need the government
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to reveal all the documents, all the cabinet documents. And as we see this evidence, I think
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Canadians can start to rebuild their confidence in government, not talking about partisan government,
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but just government in general, because I frankly don't have a lot of confidence or if any confidence
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in this Liberal government that they had any evidence to justify the use of the Emergencies Act.
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It certainly doesn't look like it as we're following this along. So again, just to clarify for those
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listening and watching, the inquiry has a little different powers than the committee does as well.
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The inquiry can go dig a little deeper, so to speak, without the political non-answers.
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Yeah, and you know, something that's frustrating about the Parliamentary Committee, but you know,
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it's an essential function of the committee, is that it's made up of membership from all parties
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and senators. And so you're going to get that back and forth and debate, and you're going to get
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parliamentarians from different perspectives trying to get their perspectives on the agenda,
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trying to prove their point. One thing I like about having the Commission of Inquiry,
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though, is we have somebody who has been given a great deal of power to compel witnesses,
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to compel evidence. There is less of the back and forth debating and the parliamentary and political
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theatre. And so I think they both have an important role to play. But I'm very interested
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to see some of the evidence that's coming out from this Commission.
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And something I guess we should mention as well, we did last week, is to basically say,
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right now, what we're trying to figure out in the inquiry and the standing committee
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is whether or not that bar has been met. Was there enough information? Was national security,
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safety of the country, at risk in order to invoke the Emergencies Act? So far,
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my opinion, I don't think it has. I know some media are saying it hasn't either. But at the same
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time, there are people who are angry with the convoy, people living in Ottawa who had their lives
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disrupted, their roads blocked, etc, etc. But regardless of how you feel about that, it still
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goes back to the main point, was the standard met?
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Yeah. And I'm not going to try to make the argument that there was no threat to public safety. I think
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certainly when you have a large group of people that are upset about something, you know,
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there's always a possibility that, you know, there could be an outbreak of violence, you know,
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maybe some elements going in there that, you know, could have posed a threat. But we deal with
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public safety threats all the time in Canada. And it doesn't require invoking an Emergencies Act
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that froze people's bank accounts, that prevented people from moving freely in the city, that
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basically allowed the government to mass arrest people in that situation. And I think, you know, we have
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public safety issues in this country, there are illegal tools available to law enforcement. And the
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evidence is showing that they didn't use all the tools available to them. And and so I don't think the
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Well, hopefully Canadians are watching this. The other thing I want to talk about was something I
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said off the beginning, and then I kind of went on two different trails. So I appreciate I appreciate
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your patience in this. So the other part is what happened in Nova Scotia, there was Canada's worst
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mass shooting. Too many people lost their lives too young. And we were told there was no government
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interference in the police investigation. It turns out through notes that were made public notepads
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from pretty high ranking members backed up by other members that were in meetings with the
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commissioner, that it seems that there was some, at least gives the impression that political
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interference was happening in order for the Liberals to gain traction to bring in their firearms
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Well, yes, I think, you know, it's very unbecoming of the government in the days after the mass shooting
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to be thinking to themselves, how can we leverage this to help our pending gun control announcement
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and going to the commissioner of the RCMP and requesting that certain information be revealed
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to the public so that it could assist the government in this political announcement, I think is a very
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dangerous precedent that's being set. And we questioned the government about this based on the notes from
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Superintendent Campbell, which said that promises that the commissioner claimed that she had made promises
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to the government that she had received requests from the minister as in the minister's office to
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release this information. And the commissioner said, no, no promise was made. The minister has said
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that there was no interference of any kind. That's pretty unequivocal when you're saying no interference
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of any kind. And yet the minister could have just been straightforward with us back in June and said,
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yes, we did make a request to the RCMP that this information be shared because we thought it was
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important information that Canadians would want to know about. We know from the commissioner's audio
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recordings that the request did come from the minister's office. So it's curious to me why they're
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trying to try to hide this. So either the commissioner is lying. She was telling her subordinates that a
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promise was made, that a request was made that had never happened, or the minister is lying and saying
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that there was no interference and, you know, there can't be, both can't be true. And so we got to fight to get
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to the bottom of this. Absolutely. And this is just extremely frustrating that how the liberals seem
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to handle this kind of situation. You have a tragedy. You have Canadians in mourning. And as you
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said, they're thinking about how they're going to leverage it in order to advance their political
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agenda and then to kind of pawn it off as, no, we had nothing to do with it. And I think if it wasn't
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for this audio recording, some of the media might have shrugged too and just moved on as well.
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Well, you know, I think what the liberals are good at is they just try to like slow pace these stories
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and then just hope that the media and the opposition loses interest and that it goes away.
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And, you know, we had the notes of Superintendent Campbell versus the word of the minister and the
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commissioner. But these audio tapes back up what Superintendent Campbell was saying. And we have to remember that
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these audio tapes were partially destroyed. These are partially destroyed audio tapes. So there is audio
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out there or could have been audio out there that would have said far more about the situation.
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But because the audio was partially destroyed, we will never know the full story from the audio side.
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So we have to rely on the notes of Superintendent Campbell and the audio that we have to draw conclusions.
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And I think the very clear conclusion that I draw is that there was far more involvement of the
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minister's office and the minister himself than they let on back in June.
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And potentially the prime minister. I believe Commissioner Luckey said something about having
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to call the prime minister or at least the prime minister's office and give a report, which is quite
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Well, the prime minister was involved as well. Certainly, if Commissioner Luckey is to be believed
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on her audio call that she was in regular communication with the prime minister. And, you know,
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there's nothing inappropriate about a prime minister or a minister keeping up to date, sharing information.
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Of course. We would expect that of our leaders, that they would be involved. But to have
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ministers' offices and ministers and prime ministers attempting to micromanage the communication
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strategy, a communication strategy that could jeopardize an open investigation. And we have to
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realize the reason why the RCMP didn't want to reveal the nature of the firearms involved was because
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there was firearms that were traced to the United States. Firearms that were traced to somebody in the
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United States and they needed to figure out how that person in the United States got the firearms over
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the border and into the hands of this mass killer.
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And if those firearms had been revealed to the public, it could have jeopardized that investigation,
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a cross-border investigation with the FBI. And we could not allow that for that to happen. So the ultimate
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justice for families is to ensure that those responsible, everyone responsible for these deaths is
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held accountable. And, you know, attempting to jeopardize and allowing an investigation to get
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jeopardized to make political points is not justice for these families.
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And now we learned last week, last Friday, a few days ago, that it's now illegal to sell, transfer, buy a handgun in Canada.
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Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, this Liberal government is big on symbolism, although this is having a massive
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impact on firearms, legal firearm owners in Canada. But, you know, I was looking at the news over the weekend and
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this handgun freeze didn't do anything to stop the shootings that we've seen in our cities.
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Shootings that are carried out by, you know, predominantly gang members, predominantly hardened
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criminals who are using illegally, well, smuggled handguns coming in from the United States.
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So we see what this gun freeze that the government's put in. It's having a huge impact on legal firearms
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owners, but it's having absolutely no impact on the real problem, which is the hardened criminals that
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All right. I think we're going to pick up that topic next week. Talking about public safety,
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talk about illegal firearms and shootings in our cities and the increased rate of crime.
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People are feeling less safe across Canada. I think we're going to pick up on that next week.
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As you know, Dane, I always give the guests the last words and the floor is yours.
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Well, thank you for the opportunity to come. I really appreciate your podcast and the work
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that you're doing to keep Canadians informed on what's going on. So thank you for having me again.
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All right. Dane Lloyd, member of parliament for Sturgeon River Parkland in the beautiful province
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of Alberta. Also the emergency preparedness critic. He's doing a great job. Watch his committee work
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on his social media. He is really lighting it up and bringing some of these issues into the forefront
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and into the media stream. So we do appreciate him and we appreciate you for joining us here today.
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Please like, comment, subscribe, share this program. Of course, we have new content for you every single
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