When will farmers finally see some relief？
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Summary
In this episode, Conservative MP for the Foothills in Alberta, John Barlow, critic for Agriculture, joins us to talk about the state of agriculture in Canada and why it is so important that we have a government that understands agriculture.
Transcript
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Hello and welcome once again to The Blueprints. This is Canada's Conservative Podcast. I'm
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your host, Jamie Schmael, Member of Parliament for Halliburton Corps at the Lakes Brock with
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new content for you every single Tuesday, even throughout the summer at 1.30pm Eastern
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Time. We ask that you like, comment, subscribe and share this program. Definitely a message
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you're not hearing on the mainstream media and it is an important one today. We're talking
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about agriculture in Canada, something that this Liberal government does not seem to value
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at all. To talk about this and much, much more, we are bringing on John Barlow, the Member
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of Parliament for Foothills in Alberta, also the critic for agriculture. Thanks for coming
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on. Thanks very much, Jamie. I appreciate the opportunity. Well, you're riding like mine,
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tons of farmers, agriculture is the way of life, sports, the economy, but it doesn't seem like
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this Liberal government actually understands at all how this industry works. Yeah, certainly
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it's very clear with, you know, starts at the top with the choices they've made as agriculture
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ministers under Justin Trudeau. The fact that I would say that policy that impacts agriculture
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is being made by environment and climate change, not the Minister of Agriculture. And when big
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decisions are announced, whether that's fertilizer tariffs or the capital gains inclusion rate change,
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the Minister of Agriculture doesn't even know that these things are happening. So I think it's almost
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beyond a disdain. It's not even an afterthought. Yeah, you know, we've said many times and you've
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been doing a great job on this file. This is definitely something that you can tell in your heart. You
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really do care and passionate about agriculture sector in this country. But one thing after another,
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right? A lot of our farmers are getting older. It's tougher to attract new people into the business.
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But of course, why would you want to break your back for 14 hours a day and barely eke out a living?
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You know, we went to a mushroom farm in Carleton earlier this week and met with two brothers who
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have kept on the family operation that are into their 40th year now. And that was exactly Fernando's
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comment. He said, you know, I really question why we're doing this. They've invested, you know,
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millions of dollars to improve their barns and their efficiency. And he said, all we're doing
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is getting punished by higher carbon taxes. They paid $180,000 in carbon taxes last year
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for one small business. That goes up to half a million in 2030 when they quadruple the carbon tax.
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And he said, if it goes to that, they're done. And that's a common story we're hearing right across
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this country where those family farm operations are teetering on whether or not they're economically
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viable. And we just can't lose these farms across Canada. That puts our food security at risk,
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but certainly our rural economy is at risk as well. There's not businesses that are stepping up
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But at the end of the day, we all have to eat, right? So this idea that the liberals have that
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we can just live in utopia and we don't know where our food is. So we'll import it from other
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jurisdictions. The quality might not be as good. Who knows about the price? Of course, if we can't
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produce our own, they were at a severe disadvantage. But it's one thing after another, but it's this
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mindset that we'll have a government program to fix that problem that we created, right? Like,
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we'll just import food, right? Like people have just had enough.
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Yeah. And I think people are seeing it. You know, maybe the bright side of this is that Canadians
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are starting to finally question and want to understand where their food comes from because
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they're seeing food prices at the grocery store continue to increase as a result of liberal-driven
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inflation. And you're exactly right, Jamie. What will happen is we will have to start importing more
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food from around the world, which has a much larger carbon footprint, has not done to the same
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environmental standards and quality standards that we have right here in Canada. But the larger
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threat of that is Canada is one of only five countries in the world that exports food to help
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feed the world. So we're not only talking about Canadian food security, we're talking about global
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food security. If Canada is no longer able to meet the global demand, there will be a food security
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question or crisis around the world, especially with what's going on in Ukraine, in the Middle East.
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Demand for Canadian products has never been higher. But because of liberal policy is becoming more and
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more difficult for us to meet that demand and to meet that opportunity, which would be an incredible
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growth opportunity for Canadian agriculture. Yeah. And it seems to emanate from these big government
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thinking types, right, that think they have the better ideas. So it's the non-productive people
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regulating the productive people, right? So probably people that have never stepped foot on a farm,
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maybe don't even know anyone who drives a pickup truck, right? Like then telling them how to do
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business. You've got to go organic doing this. Well, what if the conditions aren't right for it? Or
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what if you put me out of business, right? Like how can this make any sense?
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Well, and again, the science of organics, you know, and there's a place for all of these things.
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There's a market for everything. For sure. If you want to be organic, that's your choice. The market
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will dictate that if that's successful. But to go solely organic is actually worse for the soil.
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We would have to cultivate 50% more land just to meet what we're doing now. So where's that land
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going to come from? And that means you're going to be tilling up grasslands and wild fescue,
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which is the most endangered ecosystem on the planet is our natural grasslands in Canada.
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But the fact that I think to your point exactly is a lot of this is, comes from those folks like
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our environment minister, Stephen Ebo, who's like, oh, you think you're going to do a 30%
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fertilizer reduction? Oh, just wait and see what we're going to do. So when the European Union,
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for example, at COP26 in Glasgow said, you know, we're going to reduce fertilizer emissions by
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by 30%, he gets up on the stage and says, oh, we're going to reduce it by 50%. Like it's some
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sort of challenge. It looks great on Twitter. Well, he feels good about himself. What he should have
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done on that stage is say, well, you know what, European Union, that's a very laudable goal.
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And Canada will show you how to get there because we're already there. We're 70% more efficient in
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fertilizer use than any other country because of our zero till precision agriculture, the machinery
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that we make right here in Canada, like air seeders and air sprayers. Like let's export our
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technology and innovation around the world. We'll help you get there because we're already doing it.
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That's what he should have said. But instead, he comes up with these arbitrary numbers that punish
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Canadian farmers rather than rewarding them for the work that they're already doing.
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All right. We have a couple of clips here. This is you in question period talking about an issue,
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a few issues, but one in particular is the change in capital gains, which I think will hurt a lot of
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retirement plans for quite a few farmers across this country. So let's play cup one.
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Liberals increase in the capital gains inclusion rate from 50 to 60% is a direct attack on Canadian farm
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families. Will the prime minister end his attack on family farms who are just trying to put food on our
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table? It's important to note that when he and his government were in power, they slashed a half a
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billion dollars at agriculture and agri-food Canada. They slashed $200 million out of the
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business risk management program. Still not reassuring that the agriculture minister still
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doesn't know that there's going to be a capital gains inclusion rate change that's going to impact
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Canadian farmers. And the only thing that this tax change is going to do is feed an obese
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liberal government. I think that hits every point. It's very true, right? Like this is their measurement
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of success, how much money goes into government. Right. Right. This is the liberals. Whether or not
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it's working, it doesn't really matter. We're actually getting worse results because we keep
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chasing farmers out because the government is getting so obese. Yeah. Our average age of a
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farmer now in Canada is 57 and it's getting older. So we need to have programs in place that
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incentivize that succession planning to the younger farmer, which we did through Larry Maguire's
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private members, Bill 208 of last parliament, which helps the capital gains, makes it much
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more difficult to increase that inclusion rate from 50 to 67%. That is a 30% tax increase on that
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young farmer who is wanting to take over the family farm. The worst part of this, Jamie, is part of
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that clip was we had the minister at the Agriculture Committee the week before that. And we asked myself
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and my colleague Warren Steinle, did you consult with farmers on this inclusion rate change before
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you include it in the budget? The worst part was, is we asked him, did you know this capital gains
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inclusion rate change was in the budget? And he said, no. So one of the key pillars of the liberal budget,
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the agriculture minister didn't even know it was in the budget. So either he is asleep at the cabinet
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table, no one bothered to tell him. And it's probably like to your very first point,
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they don't care about Canadian agriculture or the impact that their policies will have
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on Canadian farm families. And what this will do is you will start losing the family farms,
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big international industrial companies will come in and buy up these farms, and then we will have
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these large industrial multinational farms, which the liberals profess every single day that they
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don't want. They seem to put their policies encouraging all of it. Exactly. So we can have
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a agriculture industry, like our telecommunication industry, like our grocery industry, like our
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airline industry, and the list goes on. So no competition, worse service, worse products,
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and worse prices. 100%. Because you can't go anywhere else. The government has
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inviscerated competition, or the ability for a small person to, or a person, an average person,
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anybody to start up a business, a small business. Yeah, you'll have higher prices, fewer choices,
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you will not have the same standards we have right now, you'll not have the same innovation
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that we have now. And plus, the impact on our rural communities would be catastrophic.
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Devastating. The economy would fall apart there. For sure. Plus the input costs, we have carbon tax
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still punishing. Do you want to talk, let's cue up cut two, where you actually, I'm sure it was tough to
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talk about it. The constituent here, we'll play the clip, and then you could almost feel the emotion
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in the author's writing, and as you delivered it. So let's play cut two.
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I want to quote a letter I received the other day from a business owner in Bragg Creek, Alberta,
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one of my constituents. As the owner of a heating company operating in rural Alberta,
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I hear every day from my customers how the Prime Minister's carbon tax has forced them to make the
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decision whether to heat or eat. And now with the hike on April 1st, it is only forcing them to go
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deeper and deeper into poverty. The fact that anyone in this great country has to live impoverished
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is already distasteful. The Liberal government seems to take pleasure in our suffering.
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The same is true for businesses, especially rural businesses. We are barely staying above water as it is.
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That's a tough one. Yeah, and I know I'm not the only one who's getting those types of calls and emails
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and letters. And I phoned that business owner as soon as we received the letter and, you know,
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had a lengthy conversation with him. And he, you know, these business owners are out there talking to
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Canadians and their neighbours every single day. And certainly he was feeling the stress of his customers.
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And, you know, this is from a homeowner to other small business owners to farmers who are his customers.
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And he is certainly seeing the impact that the carbon tax is having on everyday Canadians.
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That, for some reason, our Liberal government believes that their 300 economists have it nailed,
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where 40 million Canadians just have no idea. They've just never had it better.
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They must be experiencing it differently. Yeah, exactly.
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So where are we with the Senate? Sorry, our private member's bill is our friend and colleague,
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Scott Davidson, that had Bill C-234 to take the carbon tax off fuel being used on the farm.
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Where are we in that? It's in the Senate somewhere.
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Yeah, it's Ben Loeb's bill, actually. Ben Loeb, sorry.
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So yeah, Ben Loeb put forward Bill C-234. We've got it through the Senate, but the Senate,
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Liberal appointed senators amended it. And that's where
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this letter from that constituent is so poignant is that the amendment from the Senate
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removes the exemption or the carve out for heating and cooling of barns, mushroom farms,
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greenhouses would no longer get an exemption on propane and natural gas.
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Many of these farmers and these small business owners in rural Alberta,
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and I'm sure it's the same in many other parts of Ontario where you're from, Jamie,
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are paying more in the carbon tax than they are for the actual natural gas that they're using
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or the propane they're using. Like that is unfathomable when you are paying the carbon tax,
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the GST on top of that carbon tax, and it's costing you more than the actual energy you're
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using to heat and cool your barns or grow food in a greenhouse. So right now, I think we've got one
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more chance to try and get it through in this parliament. We'll bring it up as soon as we can
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this fall. This will save farmers a billion dollars by 2030. This is a billion dollars back in the
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pockets of farmers. This will help reduce food costs at the grocery store shelf. But right now,
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we don't have the support of the block and we don't have the support of the Liberals.
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We need to try and find a way to get the block back on side to get 234 passed in its original form,
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unamended. So every farmer and every family farm gets the same exemption, same carve out in propane
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and natural gas that every other farmer would. Right now, drying your grain would be included.
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And certainly, as we've seen in Eastern Ontario, that it's been a pretty wet year thus far. So
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there's going to be certainly if you dry your grain and corn every year. So we don't want to ignore
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that, that maybe we can give farmers a break on that side. But we'd certainly like to include
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everyone as we had originally. Yeah, it's really tough for some of these farmers because they don't
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always have the ability to pass that on to the consumers. And it's not really fair to keep
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jacking up the price for people when they can barely afford food as it is.
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Yeah, and this carbon tax, and I think where farmers are maybe a bit unique, is they pay the
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carbon tax over and over and over again when they buy fertilizer, when they buy seed, when they buy
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fuel, when they're hauling grain, when they are moving cattle, when they're moving their product
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through rail. In Alberta last year, it was $20 million just to move their grain by rail. It was more
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than that in Saskatchewan. So farmers are paying this carbon tax all along the supply chain.
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So when the Liberals try and argue that the carbon tax is not having an input on food prices,
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like how can you possibly with a straight face say that when you are the farmers paying the carbon tax,
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the trucker and the trains are charging the carbon tax, the manufacturer who's processing the food is
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paying the carbon tax, and the retailer who's selling the food is paying the carbon tax. So everywhere
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along that chain, everyone is paying it. So of course, at the end of the line, when the customer
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goes to buy the groceries or the groceries are selling, they are not only paying the carbon tax
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once, they are paying it multiple times that is driving up the price of that product. So our food
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prices are absolutely impacted by the carbon tax over and over and over again.
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All right, John Barlow, thank you very much for your time. As you know, the guests get the last word.
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The floor is yours. Well, thanks very much, Jamie. And you know, our biggest challenge
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with this and what the impact of this is having on our farm families across Canada is
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we need consumers to also understand that this is impacting them. This just isn't an issue for
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rural Canada and our farm families. This is an issue for every single Canadian,
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as we said, who is paying higher prices on the grocery store shelf, who is having to make that very
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difficult choice between eating, heating their homes, paying for a summer vacation or, you know,
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just trying to put food on the table, right? Get through life. Just to get through life. Yeah,
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this is impacting every single one of them. But certainly our farm families across the country
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are the ones who are at their wits end by doing everything right. And that's what we're hearing all
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the time is we're doing everything right. And yet we can't get any further ahead because the Liberal
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government continues to punish us with higher carbon taxes and more restrictive regulations.
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And I don't see it getting any better. And it's up to the Conservative Party and our colleagues
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like yourself that are working extremely hard to hold this government accountable,
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but also raise the awareness with Canadians across the country.
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Yeah, and we know farmers love what they're doing because after all this punishment they're
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getting from this Liberal government, you know, I'm glad on them for keeping going.
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And I appreciate their feedback and appreciate your time as well. Thank you very much.
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Doing a great job on this file. John Barlow, the Member of Parliament for Foothills,
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also the critic for agriculture. We thank him for his time. We thank you for yours. We'll have
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low taxes, less government, more freedom. That's the week.