The Candice Malcolm Show - A look inside Trudeau’s militarized No-Go Zone in Ottawa

00:00:00.000 The Trudeau government created militarized no-go zones in Ottawa's centre town.

00:00:04.140 We've never seen anything like this before in Canadian history.

00:00:07.340 What was it like on the inside this past weekend?

00:00:09.280 We'll talk to a journalist who was there.

00:00:10.840 I'm Candice Malcolm and this is The Candice Malcolm Show.

00:00:17.040 Hi everyone, thank you so much for tuning into the program.

00:00:19.860 So yesterday we brought you sort of a blow-by-blow of everything that happened over the weekend.

00:00:24.120 All of the police brutality, all of the excessive uses of force against peaceful, unarmed protesters.

00:00:30.200 We've never seen anything like this in Canada before.

00:00:32.800 It was disturbing and disgusting to watch.

00:00:35.280 On Monday night, after it was all over, the politicians got around to finally voting in favour of enacting this Emergencies Act,

00:00:41.980 even though the emergency is gone.

00:00:44.740 It cleared the protesters, it cleared the trucks, there's no blockades, there's no borders being blocked whatsoever.

00:00:49.120 So we have this emergency in place, even though the events that called for the emergency are over.

00:00:55.580 And you could argue that they never even warranted such a drastic use of force.

00:00:59.100 Well, I want to go back and take a closer look at some of the things that happened over the weekend,

00:01:04.300 some of the instances of police brutality.

00:01:06.700 And to do that, to help us understand what happened, we're joined today by Andrew Lawton.

00:01:12.020 Andrew Lawton is the host of The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:01:13.980 He's a journalist here at True North.

00:01:15.500 And he was on the ground in the middle of protests, including at times being victimized by police brutality.

00:01:21.560 He was sprayed in the face with some kind of a chemical irritant, probably pepper spray.

00:01:25.880 So, Andrew, I hope you're doing OK.

00:01:27.540 Thank you so much for all the reporting that you've done.

00:01:29.260 And thank you for joining the show today.

00:01:31.340 Hey, it's great to be here.

00:01:32.940 Obviously, I made it back in one piece.

00:01:34.400 So all was well there.

00:01:35.380 And despite everything, this was such a hugely important moment in Canadian politics, for media, for the political establishment, and also, I think, in Canadian history.

00:01:45.720 So I was glad to be able to be a small part of it for the True North team.

00:01:49.380 Well, you helped so many people get a better context of what was happening.

00:01:54.000 And part of the reason that we wanted you to be there was so that we could all bear witness to the abuses that were happening in the name of our government and in an effort to, again, squash a protest that was peaceful, that had good intentions, that people that were unarmed.

00:02:08.380 It was wild to see.

00:02:09.640 So, Andrew, can you walk us through, maybe set the scene a little bit for folks who might not be too familiar with Ottawa or who haven't seen some of the footage yet?

00:02:19.100 Like, what was it like?

00:02:20.740 You know, you've gone to Ottawa many times.

00:02:22.240 What were some of the major differences between a normal visit to Ottawa and a visit to Ottawa this past weekend?

00:02:28.580 Well, there were people there this past weekend.

00:02:30.680 I mean, that was the great irony of it, is that when everyone was talking about Spark Street, which is the pedestrian thoroughfare in Ottawa and all the businesses shutting down, it's like on a lot of weekends, I think that's how it's felt most times I've been in Ottawa.

00:02:44.120 So in this particular case, there was a bustle that just isn't normal in Ottawa on weekends.

00:02:50.120 That's always been one of my frustrations with the city.

00:02:52.400 And that's been pretty consistent since the very beginning of the protests' arrival in Ottawa, is that there's always been activity, the infamous sights and scenes of this, like the bouncy castles and the hot tubs and the bales of hay and all of that.

00:03:08.120 As much as these were novelties to a lot of people, they really did capture what had been the vibe leading up to this past weekend.

00:03:14.660 Now, obviously, it was fairly different this past weekend because the law enforcement action was carrying forward.

00:03:20.800 But I should say, even on Friday, which was the day that I was pepper sprayed by police in front of the Shadow Laurier, just a couple of blocks west on Parliament Hill, there was still dancing, there was still music, they still had a DJ.

00:03:34.900 So it was even as that was happening and as this was coming to an end, it was still like that sort of party at the end of the world atmosphere where people were still doing what they had done for several weeks prior.

00:03:45.540 One of the things I saw that you tweeted was that you started to see tow trucks come in and prior to that, tow trucks had basically refused to get involved.

00:03:55.620 They didn't want to be towing some of their buddies or some people that they knew in the convoy.

00:03:59.220 Maybe they supported it or maybe they were just worried about retribution.

00:04:04.040 There were also, we know, police checks and they sort of the police did their best to basically isolate part of the city, coordinate it off.

00:04:11.320 You couldn't get in unless you had a valid reason.

00:04:15.120 Can you speak to sort of the police presence and the militarization of Ottawa in the lead up to clearing the protests on Parliament Hill?

00:04:25.960 Yeah, and an interesting story of this.

00:04:28.100 And I had actually been just by virtue of where I was standing, was able to get a pretty good view of this.

00:04:32.960 On Thursday it was.

00:04:34.540 So before the police action had commenced, I had just arrived in Ottawa, I checked into the hotel and then was out just seeing how the situation was.

00:04:42.960 And I was at that main stage area, which was on the back of a flat or on the flatbed of a truck right in front of Parliament Hill.

00:04:50.000 And just as I arrived, I noticed that police were lining up.

00:04:53.520 Dozens of police officers were lining up on Wellington Street in front of this.

00:04:57.700 And I wondered if this was them starting to move right now.

00:05:00.940 They were in the midst of the crowd.

00:05:02.160 And what had actually happened was they had been called by convoy supporters, by protesters, to deal with someone who was being very disruptive, someone who had allegedly spat on people that were there.

00:05:17.540 And police moved in and in a very methodical fashion, they built a perimeter around this guy.

00:05:22.420 They arrested him.

00:05:23.720 He was quite resistant to that, but they ended up carrying him to the police car.

00:05:27.360 And then they marched single file out and people were thanking them and applauding them.

00:05:31.000 So police were in, police were moving around, police were walking around, there was no issue.

00:05:36.560 When it became an issue was on Friday, when the police presence switched to being that front line that was pushing protesters further and further back and ultimately squeezing them.

00:05:48.000 So they had no choice but to get off Wellington Street.

00:05:50.860 But before then, they were there, they were around, but they actually had a pretty solid working relationship, the liaison officers, with some of the convoy organizers and protesters.

00:06:03.000 Well, that's sort of what we've seen over the past month is that there's camaraderie.

00:06:06.300 There's been a lot of sort of TikTok videos and Instagram videos of police sort of saying, look, we wish we could be out there with you.

00:06:12.900 We support you.

00:06:14.220 And even throughout the protests, you know, high fives and fist pumps.

00:06:18.220 And it seems like some police, many police were in spirit supportive, at least in the early days of the Freedom Convoy.

00:06:25.620 But obviously, there was a switch at some point that the use of force became evident.

00:06:31.840 I shared with you earlier, Andrew, I'll read it now.

00:06:34.260 There's a tweet by an individual named Dennis Rancourt or Denny Rancourt, who is a, I believe he's a retired physics professor.

00:06:41.480 And he's an Ottawa resident.

00:06:43.320 He said, I live in the center of Ottawa.

00:06:45.720 Police blockades everywhere are 100 times more disruptive than the Freedom Convoy ever was.

00:06:50.780 We had to argue with police and show ID to simply go home after walking our dog with my wife.

00:06:57.200 So it seems to me that that, well, at least according to this account, that the police really moved in and made it difficult for residents to get around.

00:07:07.740 Was that was that the experience that you had as well?

00:07:10.300 Oh, 100 percent, especially by Sunday, because by Sunday, police had moved all of the protesters out of the areas where they had been demonstrating.

00:07:19.440 Most of the really, if I can call them violence or violent incidents or the flare-ups, whatever term you prefer, had happened on Friday and then Saturday.

00:07:28.800 So by Sunday, police had set up a fence that was around several city blocks.

00:07:34.060 They also had very hard perimeters for access.

00:07:37.640 And one thing that we saw, and there were some videos of this that were very, very disturbing, police harassing individuals walking down streets that were open.

00:07:46.060 Just one woman who wanted to get a coffee and they found out she was from Alberta and said, we're going to arrest you unless you turn around.

00:07:52.880 And the officer in the video you see tries to grab her phone because he doesn't like that she is filming.

00:07:58.240 So I was able to, as media, and we can talk about just how this process unfolded if you'd like, but I was able to get into the Uber secure zone on Sunday.

00:08:09.200 And it was interesting that to do that, I had to go through, I think it was two or three checkpoints, really.

00:08:15.020 And then when you get onto Wellington Street, the street that had been filled with trucks was now filled with police vehicles, but it actually looked almost identical to how it did a week prior.

00:08:24.360 Well, it's really interesting. And I hear the city council enjoyed having a pedestrian walkway so much.

00:08:31.480 They're now considering debating keeping that as pedestrian only, which is kind of silly because that, again, was one of the main justifications for clearing the protest.

00:08:39.920 And enacting the Emergencies Act was that it was blocking businesses and it was preventing people from being able to go about their lives.

00:08:46.820 And it's funny how the police stepped in. Well, let's talk a little bit about you as a journalist on the ground, because I know there was a lot of journalists, both legacy media and independent.

00:08:56.740 My observation is that the independent journalists were much more willing to sort of get close to the front lines, get in on the action.

00:09:03.180 They wanted to really show the audience what it was like to be on the ground and that the legacy media were there as well.

00:09:10.400 Maybe a bit more removed doing doing their, you know, television hits and their reports from afar.

00:09:17.060 Why don't you tell us a little bit about the journalists that were there and the sort of differing experiences that you had?

00:09:23.940 I would say it's not entirely accurate to say that all of the legacy media folks were doing their reporting from afar.

00:09:30.640 There were a number of camera crews that I saw that were pretty close to the front line.

00:09:35.100 And one challenge, though, that I'd note in my experience there compared to theirs is that they had very large units, whereas they would have an on-camera reporter, a videographer, a producer whose job it was to just pull the videographer so that they could walk backwards while the producer is looking at where things are.

00:09:54.400 And then they would also have someone else.

00:09:56.820 And then in many cases, in fact, almost all, they would have a private security guard that was with them.

00:10:02.040 So you'd have four or five person crews which were able to move relatively seamlessly.

00:10:08.480 And also, I think to say in, you know, big flashing letters in a way, you know, we're media.

00:10:13.280 Don't you dare try anything with us.

00:10:14.980 Whereas for independent journalists, we don't have that.

00:10:18.160 We didn't have the private security.

00:10:19.580 We didn't have the giant mammoth-sized camera.

00:10:22.100 We were just there in some cases, independent journalists were just there with their phones.

00:10:26.400 In some cases, they had a bit more sophisticated setups.

00:10:29.540 But the reality is it was a lot easier to beat up an independent journalist if that's what you wanted to do because you could claim, well, I didn't know that's what they were doing.

00:10:37.660 I didn't know they were there in that capacity.

00:10:40.240 So, I mean, for example, when we saw that video of Alexa Lavoie from Rebel, she was very close to the front line when she got hit with some canister on her leg.

00:10:49.900 For my part, I had actually made sure to have a bit of distance between myself and the front line when I ended up getting pepper sprayed.

00:10:56.860 And it still didn't really save me as we saw.

00:10:59.280 And I guess in one eye, I didn't see.

00:11:01.900 But I would say that for the journalists covering this on the ground getting in there, there were a lot of incidents that really need to be brought up.

00:11:12.240 There was one pool photographer or a wire photographer, I can't remember which agency, who was arrested and zip-tied and had to get his editor to help have police release him.

00:11:22.600 And you have to wonder if that had happened to an independent journalist, would police have been receptive to the call from you as they were from someone at some fancy New York agency?

00:11:31.860 And other journalists as well threatened with arrest.

00:11:34.180 I was, at one point, threatened with arrest for walking down a street that I had a legal right to walk down.

00:11:39.720 So these are significant challenges that were facing journalists on the ground.

00:11:44.160 It wasn't just the incidents you saw, but a lot of stuff that you didn't see as well.

00:11:48.820 Well, so I want to talk a little bit about this because the Ottawa police were explicitly saying, even if you're a journalist, you have to get out of there.

00:11:55.840 We saw them handing out notices earlier in the week.

00:11:58.200 And they handed one directly to a woman who was setting up a camera, obviously a journalist.

00:12:03.140 We have the Ottawa police who were live tweeting.

00:12:05.160 You can comment on this before as well, because I've never seen it before, where the police were sort of refusing to reply to questions from the media.

00:12:12.660 I know because I put in several questions over the weekend.

00:12:15.080 They weren't replying.

00:12:15.780 They weren't replying to calls, emails, tweets.

00:12:18.500 They were just sort of putting out their own explanation of what was going on.

00:12:22.220 And one of the things they said, so here on February 18th, they tweeted, all media who are attending the area, please keep a distance and stay out of police operations for your safety.

00:12:32.480 Anyone found within areas undergoing enforcement may be subject to arrest.

00:12:37.360 There will be a media availability later today on Elgin Street.

00:12:41.040 And so they're basically saying, don't come.

00:12:43.600 Don't be here.

00:12:44.560 If you are, you may get arrested.

00:12:46.680 Just come to our media availability and we'll give you your talking points later on.

00:12:50.780 We'll tell you what you can report and how you can report it.

00:12:54.220 Can you comment on this idea that the police suddenly have the power to arrest journalists who are just trying to tell a story to Canadians?

00:13:02.560 Yeah, and I'm glad you brought this up because this was something I was trying to sound the alarm about even before that tweet from them.

00:13:08.940 Because I went right to the source.

00:13:10.280 I went to the Emergencies Act, which was where police were drawing much of their power that they used in the past weekend.

00:13:16.100 And the Emergencies Act is very clear in any secure area that's designated as such by the government, by police, whatever the case is.

00:13:24.520 It only applies to restricting the flow of people that are there for unlawful activities.

00:13:30.620 Now, even if you accept that the protest is unlawful, which I don't.

00:13:35.140 But even if you accept that being on Parliament Hill in that form of protest was an unlawful activity, being a journalist is not.

00:13:43.400 Being there to document, not to participate, is not an unlawful activity.

00:13:48.540 Now, police were saying that the onus was on you to prove that you were there for a lawful activity.

00:13:54.360 And I could say, well, I'm here as a journalist.

00:13:56.120 I'm here with True North.

00:13:57.060 Here's a letter from my editor.

00:13:58.520 I'm here to report.

00:13:59.500 I'm not here to protest.

00:14:00.440 And that was not something that worked with any universality, quite the opposite.

00:14:05.500 But that was what the law said.

00:14:07.320 The law said you can be there if you have a lawful reason.

00:14:10.420 And it said, basically, if you live or work in the area.

00:14:13.740 Well, if you're a working journalist, you're there for work.

00:14:16.540 So there were significant problems.

00:14:18.320 And then that tweet from Ottawa police was just not grounded in the law.

00:14:22.380 But the law as it exists on paper doesn't matter when you're in a situation and an officer is threatening to arrest you.

00:14:28.640 It's wild.

00:14:29.960 And even the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, Andrew, jumped in and they wrote this.

00:14:34.200 Warning journalists about safety risks in the protest zone is reasonable.

00:14:38.480 Threatening them with arrest for doing their jobs is not.

00:14:41.400 Time and time again, Canadian courts have ruled against exclusion zones and other limits on the press.

00:14:46.940 So this whole idea, Andrew, that we had like a red zone in Ottawa,

00:14:50.200 that video of the police officers harassing a woman from Ontario for the crime of wanting to get a coffee or walking down the street,

00:14:56.520 brutality against journalists like yourself and Alexa over at The Rebel.

00:15:00.960 The instance I hadn't heard of that, but of a photojournalist getting arrested, zip ties, wild.

00:15:05.720 It doesn't seem like that aligns with the rule of law in Canada.

00:15:11.260 Even just the idea, Andrew, that the Emergency Act was supposed to be debated on Friday

00:15:15.560 and they canceled that because of the police activities that were caused from the Emergency Act being enacted.

00:15:20.800 I mean, can you speak to I know you're not a lawyer, but can you speak to the legality of like I mean,

00:15:27.000 there's such a seems like such a separation of the Canadian Civil Liberties Organization,

00:15:30.060 which is a left wing progressive organization is calling out the abuse against the rule of law in this country.

00:15:37.360 And it seems like there's a total disconnect between the letter of the law and that, you know,

00:15:41.820 the activities and the actions of police on the ground in Ottawa.

00:15:45.500 Like, how did a situation happen? What do you make of it?

00:15:48.960 Yeah. And just on the note of the canceling the session of Parliament,

00:15:51.840 this is where geography is a bit interesting and tells a rather unique story here.

00:15:56.840 Because on Friday, which was when they decided to cancel the House of Commons sitting,

00:16:01.860 which was, again, focused specifically on debating the Emergency Act,

00:16:06.080 the police action was several blocks east of Parliament Hill.

00:16:09.160 The police action was in front of the Chateau Laurier.

00:16:11.180 And it was on Saturday when the police action was right in front of Parliament Hill and parliamentarians were back in.

00:16:17.820 They were back there when at that point they had to lock the doors and institute a lockdown and say no one could go in or out of Parliament Hill.

00:16:25.160 So once the MPs and their staff went in in the morning, they locked up and that was that.

00:16:29.560 And I think that a lot of that was due to the backlash from canceling Friday when it would have been much safer.

00:16:34.540 Because on Friday, that area right in front of Parliament Hill was completely open.

00:16:38.340 People were passing through, police were passing through, politicians, protesters, anyone could go through.

00:16:44.380 So the Emergencies Act, I read, I went, like I said earlier, right to the source when that came out,

00:16:49.400 because I knew that this was going to be something I wanted to cover.

00:16:51.960 And I was even nervous.

00:16:53.240 Am I going to encounter issues trying to get from the airport to downtown?

00:16:57.840 Now, fortunately, I got in before they set up the perimeter they ended up setting up.

00:17:02.320 But the challenge is that your rights, when they exist on a piece of paper, it's all well and good and they may help you in court down the road.

00:17:10.400 But on the ground, you're relying on a police officer's interpretation of the law, a police officer's interpretation of the orders they've received,

00:17:18.740 and the person who gave those orders as interpretation of the law.

00:17:22.900 So there are a lot of areas there where what you have a right to do can break down and deny you that right and put you in harm's way in some cases,

00:17:31.940 as we saw, whether it's pepper spray or tear gas or arrest, and certainly put your rights in jeopardy when it comes to you trying to do your job.

00:17:39.780 Well, I think that's why it's so important that so many people are now retaining lawyers and going back to the letter of the law,

00:17:47.440 because you're right, it is based on interpretation on the ground.

00:17:50.780 You know, these police officers are obviously under a great deal of stress with the orders that they're being told and the crowd in front of them.

00:17:56.760 And, you know, it can't be easy.

00:17:58.960 However, we certainly saw a lot of abuse, and I'm glad a lot of it was caught on camera.

00:18:05.480 I want to ask you, Andrew, a little bit about the sort of reaction coming out of the weekend.

00:18:11.080 I noticed that Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Jolie, she sent out a message on Twitter saying this,

00:18:17.760 I am appalled to see Canadian journalists assaulted, harassed, intimidated, and prevented from doing their job.

00:18:22.560 It's unacceptable.

00:18:23.360 Journalists are critical to our democracy and must be free and safe to do their work.

00:18:27.380 Now, this is a little bit coded because we don't know exactly what journalist she's talking about,

00:18:31.460 and there were sort of two different instances of this sort of intimidation, harassment, abuse,

00:18:38.400 preventing someone from doing their jobs.

00:18:40.700 There's abuse aimed at journalists from the police, from the enforcement.

00:18:46.020 The tweets that we showed, you know, what happened to yourself, people being arrested.

00:18:51.060 There was another independent journalist, a YouTuber, who was arrested just simply for asking for directions, it seemed.

00:18:57.700 I don't think that's what Melanie Jolie is talking about.

00:19:00.180 I think she's talking about another side of the reports.

00:19:03.880 There was a Canadian press story that came out over the weekend as well.

00:19:08.760 Journalism experts say threats to the press during a protest were a wake-up call.

00:19:12.240 So they're talking about a different kind of harassment of journalists,

00:19:15.400 and this is taking place by the truckers, they allege, against journalists.

00:19:19.980 I know there was that one clip of a French TV reporter who was pushed on air, totally unacceptable,

00:19:25.280 and I think everyone who sees that is, you know, annoyed and condemns that kind of idiotic behavior.

00:19:31.840 I'm wondering, though, Andrew, did you see the journalists get harassed by truckers and by protesters?

00:19:37.480 And can you sort of speak to this media narrative that's coming out of the protest,

00:19:43.140 that journalists were somehow unsafe and that the truckers and the protesters created a hostile environment for them?

00:19:50.320 I did see the harassment.

00:19:51.900 I don't want to say it was by truckers.

00:19:53.480 It was by people that were in the protest, whatever they were, whoever they were, I don't know.

00:19:58.160 There were two incidents on Saturday, I think it was,

00:20:00.880 one involving Glenn McGregor, another involving Evan Solomon,

00:20:04.060 where people were surrounding them, shouting all sorts of obscenities at one point,

00:20:09.260 enough that a hit had to be canceled because they couldn't go to air with what was being said,

00:20:13.600 and at another point, someone getting very in-your-face, very aggressive.

00:20:17.600 And I didn't see Glenn McGregor for all that long, but I will say about Evan Solomon,

00:20:22.100 I saw Evan a number of times over both of my visits to Ottawa,

00:20:26.360 at the beginning and at the end.

00:20:27.680 And any time someone had a grievance with him,

00:20:30.740 I saw him take all the time in the world listening to that person and hearing them out,

00:20:35.540 which is exactly, I think, what we need to have more of from anyone in society,

00:20:38.940 which is more dialogue and discussion.

00:20:41.800 And in some cases, that's not enough.

00:20:43.420 People just want to scream.

00:20:44.760 So I could see, if you're a reporter that's out there alone,

00:20:48.060 I could see that being very threatening.

00:20:49.880 I mean, obviously, words are not actual physical violence,

00:20:54.740 but if someone is shouting at your face,

00:20:56.420 it's the type of situation that could be a powder keg.

00:20:59.420 I think it's wrong.

00:21:00.260 I think it needs to be condemned.

00:21:01.580 I condemned it when I saw it when I was broadcasting live,

00:21:04.580 and I also said something later on about it.

00:21:07.460 However, and this is the however,

00:21:10.100 I think there has been an almost exclusive focus

00:21:13.140 on that form of harassment and targeting of journalists

00:21:17.260 and not on the harassment and targeting that's taken place by the state

00:21:21.480 when it comes to the voices like the Canadian Association for Journalists.

00:21:25.320 And like a lot of the journalists themselves that are talking about this online,

00:21:29.460 these companies have equipped their journalists, like I mentioned,

00:21:32.480 with large crews, with bodyguards.

00:21:34.820 In one case, there was one of the beefiest people I'd ever seen

00:21:38.440 protecting one particular reporter.

00:21:40.860 I can't even remember who it was,

00:21:42.100 but they had this protection to basically serve as a buffer

00:21:45.740 in case the crowd gets out of hand.

00:21:47.580 And I think that's fine.

00:21:48.440 I think employers obviously want to make sure their staff are safe

00:21:51.780 when they're going out into the field.

00:21:54.000 But you also have to arm yourself against the government

00:21:56.400 when the government's going to go after you.

00:21:58.140 And I mean, arm yourself legally,

00:21:59.420 arm yourself by knowing your rights, by asserting your rights.

00:22:02.820 And it's been quite unsettling that a lot of these voices

00:22:05.800 that for a month have been talking about

00:22:07.760 condemning abuse against journalists and harassment of journalists

00:22:11.440 have not also been as well as that

00:22:14.120 going after the threats to independent media.

00:22:16.880 And I think one of the big reasons for that

00:22:18.700 is because some of the situations we talked about earlier

00:22:21.440 weren't happening to legacy media journalists.

00:22:24.600 Right. Well, I think it's an interesting conversation.

00:22:27.240 Perhaps we can have another day because, you know,

00:22:29.480 that sort of anger and vitriol that we see

00:22:32.600 against those legacy media reporters,

00:22:34.260 I'm happy to hear your report there, Andrew.

00:22:37.040 And good for Evan Solomon for, you know,

00:22:39.820 keeping a cool head and being willing to engage in dialogue,

00:22:42.480 something that liberal politicians in this country

00:22:45.080 are unable to do. But obviously,

00:22:47.120 that anger doesn't happen in a vacuum, right?

00:22:49.220 It's like, from my perspective,

00:22:51.080 these legacy journalists, legacy media journalists

00:22:53.660 have been feeding a fake narrative

00:22:55.640 about the truckers from day one,

00:22:57.360 saying that this was a violent insurrection,

00:22:59.840 saying that they were occupying Ottawa.

00:23:01.500 I appreciated Andrew Scheer's tweets,

00:23:03.220 pushing back at Evan Solomon and Glenn McGregor,

00:23:06.300 saying, what do you mean occupied?

00:23:07.900 None of the buildings are occupied.

00:23:09.020 When you think of occupied, the Capitol,

00:23:11.860 you kind of think that people are inside the building

00:23:14.500 holding people hostage.

00:23:15.800 I mean, that's sort of what the word conjures an image of

00:23:18.680 or some kind of a foreign occupation of foreign troops.

00:23:21.500 So just a sort of hyperbolic use of language

00:23:24.100 that we see from a lot of journalists

00:23:26.140 feeding this really irresponsible narrative,

00:23:28.480 predicting violence, bringing out the worst,

00:23:30.580 taking, you know, the one idiot 0.84

00:23:32.220 who showed up with a Nazi flag

00:23:33.680 and pretending that the entire group

00:23:35.380 possessed a Nazi ideology.

00:23:37.240 I mean, there's so much malfeasance

00:23:38.520 on behalf of the legacy media

00:23:40.040 that I think that some of the frustration,

00:23:42.180 obviously, you're right,

00:23:43.020 that behavior is totally unacceptable

00:23:44.200 and needs to be condemned.

00:23:45.040 You shouldn't take it out that way.

00:23:47.320 However, there's something there

00:23:49.220 that the legacy media journalists

00:23:51.000 need to do some self-reflecting

00:23:53.000 and understand that the reason

00:23:55.000 that these people hate them

00:23:55.940 is because of the coverage that they've given

00:23:58.120 and the way that they are feeding the news to Canadians.

00:24:01.660 So we'll have that conversation another day, Andrew.

00:24:04.000 I want to ask a final question here.

00:24:05.780 If I can just jump in on that for a moment,

00:24:07.960 I think it's cyclical.

00:24:09.440 And I actually had this conversation

00:24:10.820 with someone that I met in Ottawa.

00:24:12.540 I said, okay, even if,

00:24:13.880 let's say that every one of your grievances is valid

00:24:16.060 and heaven knows I know lots of reasons

00:24:18.740 that people can be frustrated

00:24:19.820 with the mainstream media,

00:24:21.180 but even if your perception is entirely valid,

00:24:24.300 entirely accurate,

00:24:25.340 is what you're doing going to do anything to change that

00:24:28.500 or is it only going to give them more ammunition

00:24:30.240 to then tarnish all of them?

00:24:31.960 And the person did to their credit say,

00:24:33.380 wow, you know, that's actually a good point.

00:24:35.040 So even if it's correct,

00:24:36.780 there's a tactical question there.

00:24:38.220 So I'm not saying don't be frustrated with the media.

00:24:40.420 I'm saying that people need to channel that

00:24:41.880 in a way that is producing better results.

00:24:45.040 And the best advice I could give,

00:24:46.500 if you don't like it,

00:24:47.500 if you don't think they're going to listen,

00:24:49.100 ignore it.

00:24:50.040 The power comes from people watching

00:24:51.760 and giving them credibility

00:24:52.820 and giving them ammunition.

00:24:55.020 Oh, that's so true, Andrew.

00:24:56.140 I absolutely agree.

00:24:57.040 When I saw that footage of the individual

00:24:58.700 pushing the French reporter on a live TV hit,

00:25:01.160 I couldn't think of a stupider thing

00:25:02.880 for a protester to do to galvanize everybody against them.

00:25:06.340 Like, that's going to be the big takeaway.

00:25:08.560 Look at this.

00:25:09.100 This is an actual assault that we caught on camera.

00:25:11.760 It's the stupidest way to show your frustration

00:25:14.540 with the media.

00:25:15.420 The best way, by the way, is you're right.

00:25:17.380 Turn off, turn off, turn off the legacy media.

00:25:19.920 Turn on True North.

00:25:20.900 Share it with your friends.

00:25:21.840 Find other independent sources.

00:25:23.220 Find independent journalists

00:25:24.160 that are telling the story in a fair and accurate way.

00:25:26.980 I completely agree with that point.

00:25:28.780 Just a final question for you, Andrew.

00:25:30.960 What's next?

00:25:31.740 You know, we sort of see the elites in Ottawa

00:25:34.060 breathing a sigh of relief,

00:25:35.760 a little bit of celebratory atmosphere there

00:25:38.540 that it's quiet and calm

00:25:39.780 and things are back to normal

00:25:40.680 aside from the large police presence.

00:25:42.680 But at least the truckers are gone

00:25:44.220 from their perspective.

00:25:45.880 We had this emergency act in place.

00:25:48.060 We had Trudeau hinting over the weekend

00:25:50.160 during a press conference

00:25:50.920 that they're going to keep it in place

00:25:52.420 for a couple months

00:25:53.020 just in case the truckers come back.

00:25:54.420 We know that the police are actively

00:25:56.860 trying to identify anyone who's at the protest

00:26:00.020 to try to freeze their bank accounts, apparently.

00:26:02.440 Hopefully, nothing like that happens to you.

00:26:05.040 But, you know, you were on the ground.

00:26:07.720 You have a good feeling for these things politically.

00:26:10.040 What do you expect to happen next?

00:26:12.760 And how do you think this thing is all going to wrap up?

00:26:15.260 So I think the challenge with the grassroots movement

00:26:18.240 is that as much as there were people

00:26:20.440 that became the voices of the convoy,

00:26:22.460 there was no hierarchy.

00:26:23.580 There was no official convoy leadership.

00:26:26.260 You had one group that was controlling the money.

00:26:28.760 You had a number of different operational centers.

00:26:31.580 And this was a story

00:26:32.420 that I was actually starting to dig into

00:26:34.720 and was making good headway

00:26:36.420 before, of course, the police moved in.

00:26:38.640 You had different, you know, logistical operations

00:26:41.420 that were supporting the convoy in different ways,

00:26:43.660 financially, with security,

00:26:45.680 with getting food to truckers,

00:26:47.220 with getting fuel, all of this sort of stuff.

00:26:50.560 But even with that,

00:26:51.800 you still have a grassroots movement,

00:26:53.140 which is why some people wanted to leave before others.

00:26:55.820 Other people were saying,

00:26:56.980 hold the line, hold the line, hold the line,

00:26:58.580 until the police moved in at that very last moment.

00:27:02.380 And even now, you still have that.

00:27:04.540 Tom Marazzo, who I spoke to,

00:27:06.140 who's one of the organizers,

00:27:08.160 for lack of a better term,

00:27:09.200 he's saying that we need to shift our battle

00:27:11.200 to the courts.

00:27:12.480 He said the convoy is over,

00:27:14.100 the protest is over,

00:27:15.420 but we need to now assert our rights in court

00:27:17.740 over the money,

00:27:19.180 over our civil liberties,

00:27:20.200 and over the vaccine mandates.

00:27:22.180 You have other people that,

00:27:23.680 as well, in large numbers,

00:27:24.880 and I don't know how many,

00:27:26.020 are literally 30 minutes outside of Ottawa

00:27:28.240 with their trucks fueled up, ready to go.

00:27:31.160 And some of them may want to head

00:27:32.760 right back into downtown Ottawa

00:27:34.240 the second those police blockades are lifted.

00:27:37.700 Now, will it be as powerful?

00:27:39.560 I'm assuming police will have some way to prevent that.

00:27:42.340 Maybe it's by keeping checkpoints in place.

00:27:45.440 But I see a lot of the measures

00:27:47.060 that the government could do

00:27:48.560 to prevent a second blockade from forming,

00:27:51.120 a second protest from forming,

00:27:53.200 will be a lot like taking off your shoes

00:27:55.420 to go through the airport,

00:27:57.080 where it becomes, you know,

00:27:59.300 in a way more intrusive

00:28:00.560 than what it was trying to stop

00:28:02.400 and more enduring

00:28:03.840 than what it was trying to stop.

00:28:05.500 And all of these things

00:28:06.660 that governments and police will have to do

00:28:08.660 are all because they failed

00:28:10.520 to do the obvious thing

00:28:11.520 from the very beginning,

00:28:12.320 which was, let's talk to these people.

00:28:15.440 A hundred percent, Andrew.

00:28:17.060 All right, well, we really appreciate your reporting.

00:28:18.800 Thank you so much for being on the ground

00:28:20.160 and thanks for keeping us up to date

00:28:21.660 on all things Canadian politics.

00:28:24.620 Folks can check out the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:28:26.440 It's a great program.

00:28:27.400 Is it two days a week now, Andrew,

00:28:28.580 or three days a week?

00:28:29.540 Well, the convoy has thrown

00:28:31.240 the whole schedule into alert.

00:28:32.560 So we're rebuilding

00:28:33.580 and we've actually started doing them live.

00:28:35.340 So we'll have more this week

00:28:37.340 and then hopefully we'll settle back

00:28:38.420 into a groove next week

00:28:39.420 with three shows a week again.

00:28:41.520 Excellent.

00:28:42.000 All right.

00:28:42.320 Thank you so much.

00:28:43.160 That's Andrew Lawton.

00:28:44.080 I'm Candice Malcolm.

00:28:44.720 This is The Candice Malcolm Show.

00:28:45.620 Thank you.

00:28:45.660 Thank you.

00:28:45.700 Thank you.

The Candice Malcolm Show - February 24, 2022

A look inside Trudeau’s militarized No-Go Zone in Ottawa

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