The Candice Malcolm Show - Alberta wants OUT？ Constitutional lawyer explains REFERENDUM changes and path to independence

00:00:00.000 Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is the Candice Malcolm Show. We had a very optimistic episode for you yesterday. I went through and pointed out why I was hopeful about the election results, why I'm still hopeful for the country and for Canada.

00:00:14.740 Then yesterday afternoon, an absolute bombshell was dropped out of Alberta. It seems like some people in Alberta just don't want to wait. They don't have the same hope and optimism for the country that I myself hold.

00:00:27.740 So we are going to explain it all. I'm going to ask everybody to just quickly like the video. It really helps us with the algorithm. We want to be able to be presented to more Canadians.

00:00:37.020 We want more Canadians to discover Juno News in our quest to replace the CBC. So help us out by liking this video.

00:00:44.540 OK, I am pleased to be joined today for this episode by Keith Wilson. Keith is a constitutional lawyer based in St. Albert, Alberta.

00:00:52.880 He gained national attention for representing the Freedom Convoy back when the Public Orders Emergency Commission were reviewing it in 2022.

00:01:01.040 So, Keith, thank you for joining us today.

00:01:03.920 Thank you.

00:01:04.860 OK, so let's just get to the news. It started when Danielle Smith, Premier of Alberta, came out the morning after the election and basically just called for a reset in the relationship between the feds and Alberta and the provinces.

00:01:18.500 So let me read from her ex post here. OK, so this came out bright and early on Tuesday morning after the election.

00:01:26.220 Premier Smith writes this. She says, I want to congratulate Prime Minister Mark Carney and his minority government election victory last night.

00:01:32.020 I also want to sincerely thank Pierre Polyev for his powerful and principled advocacy.

00:01:36.600 She goes on to thank Polyev for his work and his vision.

00:01:40.300 She goes on, she says, as Premier, I invite the Prime Minister to immediately commence working with our government to reset the relationship between Ottawa and Alberta with meaningful action rather than hollow rhetoric.

00:01:53.060 A large majority of Albertans are deeply frustrated that the same government that overtly attacked our provincial economy, almost unabated for the past 10 years, has been returned to government.

00:02:03.900 As Premier, I will not permit the status quo to continue.

00:02:06.540 Albertans are proud Canadians that want this nation to be strong, prosperous and united, but we will no longer tolerate having our industries threatened and our resources landlocked by Ottawa.

00:02:17.440 In the weeks and months ahead, Albertans will have an opportunity to discuss our province's future, assess various options for strengthening and protecting our province against future hostile acts from Ottawa and to ultimately choose a path forward.

00:02:31.140 As Premier, I will facilitate and lead this discussion and process with the sincere hope of securing a prosperous future for our province within a united Canada that respects our province's constitutional rights,

00:02:43.880 facilitates rather than blocks the development and export of our abundant resources and treats us as a valued and respected partner within Confederation.

00:02:52.080 Our government will be holding a special caucus meeting this Friday to discuss this matter further.

00:02:57.280 I will have more to say after that meeting is concluded.

00:03:01.640 Wow, what a strong message from Premier Smith, really just laying it all out, saying we are not going to tolerate being pushed around the way that we were under Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

00:03:12.560 So, Keith, what did you make?

00:03:14.120 We'll get to the referendum news and the changes in a minute.

00:03:17.000 But what did you make of Premier Smith's strong comments there?

00:03:20.400 Well, I think she's echoing the sentiment that she's hearing on the ground as she travels the province and meets with Albertans and meets with business leaders and community leaders,

00:03:33.960 that the frustration level here is at an all-time high, because it's not just that the federal government has engaged in, you know, incompetent decision-making, the liberal government.

00:03:46.940 They've definitely got five stars for that, but it's deliberate policy, deliberate policy that harms Alberta's economy. 0.51

00:03:56.640 It's spectacular.

00:03:58.360 And she sees it.

00:04:01.100 She's an incredibly capable and intelligent leader.

00:04:05.600 She's a data person, if you've spoken with her.

00:04:09.020 She studies numbers and she sees it and she hears it from the voters of Alberta and she's echoing their concerns.

00:04:19.180 Well, I think certainly many people in Alberta woke up on Tuesday morning feeling very disappointed about the decision that was made, mostly from people in central Canada.

00:04:27.860 I will say, again, I was optimistic.

00:04:29.560 I looked at around Toronto, looked at the 905, looked at some of even the seats closer to Toronto.

00:04:34.180 I'm talking about York Centre, where Roman Baba was elected, Melissa Lansman elected with 66% of the vote.

00:04:39.600 That's more than Michelle Rempel was elected in Calgary. 1.00

00:04:42.300 So there is an appetite for change.

00:04:44.120 There was a bit of a blue wave.

00:04:45.140 It was just a very strange election where the NDP vote completely collapsed.

00:04:48.940 But I think that Premier Smith is really tapping in on this.

00:04:51.880 Now, later in the day, Daniel Smith went on CBC's Power and Politics.

00:04:56.480 I want to play a few of these clips for you here, Keith, because I just think it's so telling the way the CBC is framing the issue,

00:05:02.760 the way that they are openly just defending Mark Carney and his position, pressing Danielle Smith as if they worked for the prime minister,

00:05:09.300 as if it was their job to say, this is what Carney has said, this is what Prime Minister Carney says and believes.

00:05:15.840 Why aren't you getting on board with it?

00:05:17.260 So first, we'll play this clip where they're asking Premier Smith about her position on pipelines.

00:05:22.820 And she is saying that Canada needs to respect Alberta.

00:05:26.340 We need pipelines.

00:05:27.320 Let's play that clip.

00:05:28.320 A lot of people want lost ground as well.

00:05:29.760 What people want is an aspirational government that is going to get things done,

00:05:34.440 that is going to open up new markets so that we're not overly reliant on the United States.

00:05:38.300 And so to think that the old liberal NDP alliance that crushes the aspirations of Alberta and Saskatchewan

00:05:44.240 is going to work on a go forward, I hope he is not of that view.

00:05:48.740 I think that there's a different pathway and I hope he takes it.

00:05:51.920 But he has certainly signaled, Premier, that he says he's a pragmatist.

00:05:55.760 You know, he wants to find ways to move forward.

00:06:00.080 He wants to still pursue a climate agenda.

00:06:02.440 But he says he's not completely beholden to hard and artificial caps, for example, with the emissions cap,

00:06:08.560 which I know is still in the consultation process.

00:06:10.400 And I know you fundamentally disagree with it.

00:06:13.340 My understanding of the Prime Minister's view is that he believes in it as a policy instrument,

00:06:17.300 but not necessarily with the rigidity of the previous liberal leadership team.

00:06:23.520 A lot of talk about energy corridors.

00:06:25.040 There seems to be alignment at the First Minister's table.

00:06:28.100 Are you not in any way more optimistic that your natural resources can find easier paths to market

00:06:34.980 and you can get better cooperation with the federal government than you've had in the last nine years?

00:06:38.940 Well, I always live in hope.

00:06:40.620 But you saw that the Bloc Québécois' first move is to say they'd partner with Mark Carney

00:06:45.560 as long as he didn't build pipelines.

00:06:47.860 Just allow me to rant for a second here, Keith, because Mark Carney is a radical on the climate.

00:06:52.280 You could argue that he is more left-wing and more concerned, you know,

00:06:57.220 pushing this idea of a climate crisis even than Justin Trudeau.

00:07:00.160 But during the election, he decided to, you know, moderate his views

00:07:04.680 and run on more of a conservative platform to get rid of the carbon tax.

00:07:07.680 And here you have the CBC grilling Daniel Smith, being like, why don't you just believe him?

00:07:12.460 He's moderate.

00:07:13.340 He's not going to be as bad as Justin Trudeau. 0.93

00:07:15.180 And basically just pushing his talking voice is so absurd and ridiculous to me that that is what the CBC does.

00:07:20.920 Now, just to add context to what Premier Smith said, I want to play this quick clip of Yves-Francois Blanchet, 0.63

00:07:26.840 the leader of the Bloc Party.

00:07:28.460 And remember, he could potentially hold the balance of power here.

00:07:31.120 The Liberals only got elected in a minority.

00:07:33.460 The NDP have basically been wiped out.

00:07:34.900 I mean, they do have enough seats combined to form a coalition, but so does the Bloc.

00:07:40.600 And here is what the Bloc is saying the day after the election.

00:07:43.620 Please play that clip.

00:07:44.740 The fact that there's no future for oil and gas, at least in Quebec and probably everywhere,

00:07:52.240 and this has to be said and protected, I have a brand new weapon to do that.

00:07:58.400 Mr. Bonin will be extraordinary carrying that message.

00:08:01.720 So no future for oil and gas in Canada.

00:08:04.860 This is what the leader of the Bloc is saying at this very contentious moment.

00:08:09.220 And so I just go back to the interview with Daniel Smith and David Cochran of the CBC.

00:08:13.760 I'll play the second bit here where, again, the CBC is kind of condescending to Daniel Smith saying,

00:08:18.640 you know, why is Alberta acting this way? 1.00

00:08:22.840 And talk to me about the separatist sentiments and the Alberta sovereignty.

00:08:27.380 Daniel Smith has a strong response.

00:08:28.980 Let's play that clip.

00:08:29.600 There's a lot of suspicion that you might want to be a little bit more like Quebec.

00:08:33.720 And when people like Preston Manning were talking about a liberal win, maybe, you know,

00:08:37.660 exacerbating the idea of Alberta separatism, I just wonder what your thoughts are on that.

00:08:44.460 I mean, is this something you would forcefully push back against as the first minister of Alberta,

00:08:49.200 the notion that because the national election didn't go the way a lot of people in your province wanted,

00:08:53.780 that it becomes a cause for separation?

00:08:56.540 Well, I have always said that I support Alberta sovereignty within the United Canada.

00:09:00.920 And I think that that is the viewpoint of many of the premiers is that they want the constitution to be respected.

00:09:07.200 They want to be able to have local decision making.

00:09:09.260 They want the environmental process to be at the provincial level.

00:09:12.240 So I'm not alone in that.

00:09:14.160 We have a process in our province where you have citizen-initiated referenda.

00:09:19.580 If you have a certain number of signatures on a petition, issues can be put forward.

00:09:23.480 If there is an appetite for that kind of conversation, that would be the avenue for it.

00:09:28.400 But it's not something that our government would be putting forward.

00:09:30.600 I believe that we've got to try to be on Team Canada.

00:09:33.500 But my view has always been that Team Canada has to show that they're on Team Alberta, too.

00:09:38.680 So, again, David Cochran's line of questioning is basically, well, you guys lost one election,

00:09:42.680 and now you're basically acting like a spoiled bat of Confederation, saying that you want to go alone. 0.62

00:09:47.120 It wasn't just one election, right?

00:09:48.660 Premier Smith did a great job of outlining how it's been a repeated pattern of disrespect towards Alberta.

00:09:54.700 So I want you to comment on that exchange that we just saw.

00:09:57.540 Well, first of all, I mean, the CBC is the state broadcaster, and they are funded by government.

00:10:05.240 They know who funds them.

00:10:06.620 Their glee on election night was spectacular, not even attempt at neutrality.

00:10:12.500 So one has to discount anything you hear from the CBC and be cautious that there's sort of a propaganda-type twisting going on,

00:10:22.980 and I think that's what we saw in the line of questioning.

00:10:25.160 But, you know, and I do agree with Premier Smith's position that she has to be, you know,

00:10:33.580 to recognize her role as a First Minister of Canada, in addition to being the Premier of Alberta,

00:10:41.540 and always put effort into making that relationship work.

00:10:45.800 But, you know, we have a pattern of conduct from Ottawa with federal policies that are intentionally designed to weaken our economy,

00:10:57.760 deprive our kids of jobs, prosperity, revenue for government services.

00:11:03.900 And so many Albertans have come to that conclusion on their own and are highly motivated now to say enough's enough.

00:11:13.220 It's so interesting, and so I want to get to the changes in the referendum requirements.

00:11:18.820 You can see it was teased a little bit at the end of that interview on CBC.

00:11:22.460 So news came out Tuesday afternoon that Alberta had made changes to the referendum requirements

00:11:27.700 and amendments to something called the Citizens Initiative Act.

00:11:31.820 So I'm going to read from this Western Standard article released last night at 9 p.m.

00:11:35.860 Written by James Snell, he writes,

00:11:37.900 The Alberta government has introduced Bill 54, the Election Statutes Amendment Act, on Tuesday,

00:11:42.660 aiming to enhance the integrity and accessibility of provincial elections,

00:11:46.240 while emphasizing referendums several times in its announcement,

00:11:49.600 signaling pushback against the federal liberal government led by Prime Minister Mark Carney.

00:11:54.220 The proposed legislation, tabled by Daniel Smith's United Conservative Party government,

00:11:58.160 seeks to protect democratic processes, ensure fair and transparent elections,

00:12:02.140 boost public confidence in voting outcomes.

00:12:04.000 According to a government release,

00:12:05.280 The Western Standard asked Smith about the timing of the announcement,

00:12:08.180 the day after a federal election, whether she is considering a sovereignty referendum.

00:12:13.340 We were going to introduce the legislation, regardless of the outcome of the election,

00:12:17.420 she said, to hold an independent referendum in Alberta.

00:12:20.960 Currently, the process can be initiated through two primary mechanisms under existing legislation.

00:12:27.560 A petition must collect signatures from approximately 600,000 eligible voters,

00:12:32.140 which is about 20% of Alberta's eligible voters based on the 2019 election turnout within a 90-day period.

00:12:38.100 If passed, this new bill will cut the number needed in half down to 10%.

00:12:45.080 So at a press conference yesterday afternoon, Daniel Smith made this announcement.

00:12:49.780 Let's play that clip.

00:12:50.640 We are expanding opportunities for Albertans to be involved in direct democracy by making changes to the threshold needed for successful citizens initiatives.

00:13:00.180 The signature collection time for citizens initiatives will be extended from 90 days to 120 days.

00:13:06.540 We are also improving the process by setting the threshold to be 10% of the number of eligible voters who participated in the last general election.

00:13:16.060 Wow. So, yes, she says it's unrelated to the fact that the election happened yesterday, but, I mean, come on.

00:13:20.940 This is a huge news coming out of Alberta that the Premier is making it easier, making it an easier pathway for a referendum on independence.

00:13:29.180 Keith, can you talk to us about the law, the legality of this referendum initiative?

00:13:35.000 Sure, and I think it's really important to understand why we're even talking about the concept of referendum in this discussion,

00:13:43.240 which is Canada is a very unique country in the world in terms of democracies,

00:13:49.480 in that most countries do not have, and by most I mean just about all,

00:13:55.800 do not have a mechanism where legally a region of a country, a province, or a state can hold a vote, a referendum,

00:14:06.480 and decide they no longer want to be part of that country.

00:14:10.020 This is exceptionally rare in democracies to have in the constitutional jurisprudence a mechanism for a province in Canada to hold a vote.

00:14:22.040 And, of course, it all emanates from the 1998 reference case regarding Quebec succession when Quebec was going to hold a referendum.

00:14:31.140 So, that's why we're talking about a referendum, is that Canada has this unique phenomenon at law where a region, namely a province, can hold a referendum.

00:14:42.520 So, the question becomes, well, how does any province hold a referendum?

00:14:45.620 Well, interestingly, each provincial legislature gets to decide what referendum laws they're going to have, if any.

00:14:53.320 And Alberta has had a referendum law on the books for a very long time,

00:14:57.000 and it basically says that the cabinet, the provincial cabinet, can decide to hold a referendum on separation or independence.

00:15:04.760 But the Kenney government, under the UCP prior to Premier Smith, brought in legislation for citizen-initiated referendum,

00:15:16.140 where if the citizens assemble sufficient signatures on a petition, essentially, that will compel the government to hold the referendum.

00:15:28.520 So, either the people can force the provincial government's hand to compel a referendum on independence,

00:15:35.760 or the cabinet itself can decide to call one.

00:15:38.620 The problem was that under the Citizen Initiative Act, they had two bars.

00:15:43.720 If you wanted to get a policy changed or legislation changed in a particular area, you had one bar, which was 10%.

00:15:49.600 But if you wanted a constitutional amendment, it was higher, it was 20%, had all these other hurdles that you had to overcome.

00:15:57.760 And the government and Premier Smith took the position that she announced yesterday, that there should be one standard.

00:16:03.640 If the citizens decide they want to compel government to act, there should be one standard.

00:16:08.880 So, she brought the constitutional standard down to the other standard.

00:16:12.040 The practical effect is that prior to these amendments announced yesterday, in order to force the Alberta government to hold a referendum on separation,

00:16:23.140 we would have had to have, in 90 days, got 600,000 signatures.

00:16:29.920 Now, we have 120 days to get 177,000.

00:16:34.940 So, we've gone from 600,000 signatures down to 177, and the amount of time has gone from 90 days to 120 days.

00:16:45.200 So, it's a much, it's a very viable target, I believe.

00:16:50.660 Well, Keith, I wanted to point this out because this was an op-ed published in the Toronto Star on Saturday, two days before the election.

00:17:00.360 Just absolutely made my blood boil.

00:17:02.440 The headline says, perhaps it's time Alberta does go it alone and say goodbye to Canada.

00:17:08.340 This article is just dripping with the smug leftist disdain that characterizes some in central Canada.

00:17:15.120 I will say, I don't think this is a common sentiment amongst people in Ontario.

00:17:19.660 I think that, again, as I pointed out, there was a blue wave in Ontario.

00:17:23.860 It just wasn't enough, and it didn't sweep in places like Ottawa, where there was a red wave, right?

00:17:28.140 We saw Pierre Polly lose his own seat.

00:17:29.500 But in Toronto, there were a lot of pickups, a lot of seats.

00:17:33.080 This doesn't represent the views of people in Ontario, but it does represent the views of people like, you know, partisan liberals, people who were doing the whole elbows up thing.

00:17:43.220 And, I mean, I'll read a little bit of it.

00:17:45.460 I don't want to subject you and our audience to it because it's just so brutal.

00:17:48.460 But it's written by David Olive, who is a columnist at the Toronto Star.

00:17:52.180 So, it's not like a guest op-ed written to be provocative.

00:17:54.360 This is someone who works for the Toronto Star, who gets paid, who writes in this paper day in and day out.

00:17:59.620 He writes, Alberta's giving me a headache.

00:18:01.440 The province stands alone in its incurable sense of grievance with the rest of the federation.

00:18:06.180 Not even a $34 billion expansion of Trans Mountain pipeline built by Ottawa to get Alberta oil to non-U.S. markets for the first time has reduced Alberta's bellyaching.

00:18:15.100 So, he basically just says, oh, he goes on, he says, Alberta doesn't do gratitude.

00:18:19.680 It does righteous indignation ad nauseam.

00:18:22.620 So, he wants Albertans to thank Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Prime Minister Cardi for, you know, the government bailing out a pipeline that they never wanted that to happen in the first place, that Albertans should be gratitude.

00:18:34.980 So, I mean, this is kind of the sentiment, which I don't blame Albertans for seeing this and saying, yeah, I don't want any of that.

00:18:41.200 I would only caution it to say, this is not representative of most people in Ontario.

00:18:45.580 What did you make of that op-ed?

00:18:47.280 Well, first of all, I mean, I just knocked the easy one off.

00:18:51.180 What was the, until the Liberal policies were brought in, what was the Trans Mountain pipeline going to cost the taxpayer?

00:18:58.360 Zero dollars.

00:18:59.880 Right.

00:19:00.160 Zero dollars.

00:19:01.820 The company was going to build it and starting to go through all the processes.

00:19:05.980 I actually had cases where I represented landowners along the route.

00:19:10.060 And they, the federal government put so many regulatory obstacles in front of them that they said this is no longer a viable project and they walked.

00:19:20.100 And so, the government had to step in and take over and mismanaged it in the extreme.

00:19:24.840 And that's why the costs ballooned to $34 billion.

00:19:27.780 It should have cost the taxpayers nothing.

00:19:30.960 That's what was going to happen until the federal Liberals screwed it up. 1.00

00:19:35.100 But, one of the thing, even in the more moderate folks that I've encountered from Central and Eastern Canada, their lack of understanding of the basic roles and responsibilities of governments and who does and pays for what is remarkable. 1.00

00:19:51.380 People will come after me on Twitter and say, well, how are you going to pay for your healthcare then?

00:19:56.200 Well, we already pay for our healthcare and we net pay at least $20 billion a year to Ottawa that we don't get back.

00:20:02.760 So, we'll actually have $20 billion laying around in our pocket to maybe spend a little more on healthcare.

00:20:09.100 Thank you very much.

00:20:10.140 People think that the crown land in Alberta means federal crown.

00:20:14.340 It doesn't.

00:20:15.420 The only federal land in Alberta is four national parks, four military bases, and a number of Indian First Nations reserves under the treaties.

00:20:28.160 And when you combine that all together, the First Nations reserves only 1.31% of the land base, and then the federal component is 20.

00:20:37.980 Some people think that the federal government owns the oil and gas here, all owned by the province, the water.

00:20:43.840 The only thing the federal government really has a responsibility for in Alberta is like running a passport office, and they can't even do that.

00:20:50.940 So, it's remarkable to me the lack of understanding.

00:20:55.320 Like Nova Scotia has, and I'm not sure on the exact numbers, but I believe it's around $12 billion is their budget.

00:21:03.800 Almost $4 billion of that comes from Alberta.

00:21:06.600 What's going to happen to Nova Scotia when we leave, right, and if we leave?

00:21:11.320 And where, so Ontario is now going to have to pay that money.

00:21:15.720 And the fellow from the Toronto Star won't be so smug at that point.

00:21:19.580 The reality is, is that Alberta is a tremendous asset to Canada.

00:21:24.960 We fund so much of Canada's activities.

00:21:28.300 We ask so little.

00:21:29.980 And instead, we've just been harassed and economically abused.

00:21:36.540 And Carney, who I've been studying for years, is a melding of Gabo and Trudeau on Superdrive.

00:21:47.080 Like this guy's climate extremism is troubling.

00:21:55.320 And then he's also, if you research his wife, she's a very extreme climate activist as well.

00:22:04.440 So, when he gets home, you know, from the cabinet meeting, he's going to be, you know,

00:22:09.280 what did you do to stop the planet from burning up by increasing its average temperature by 1.5 degrees Celsius average?

00:22:17.140 So, you know, there's, I have no optimism that Carney's going to change course.

00:22:26.180 He talked about making Canada an energy superpower.

00:22:30.680 And I don't know if you picked up on this, because I sure did.

00:22:32.800 Near the end of the election, somewhere, at some scrum, he was pushed on it.

00:22:37.600 And he qualified it by saying, oh, what I meant was a renewable energy superpower.

00:22:45.100 Well, what we've experienced in Alberta, because I track the hourly electricity generation,

00:22:51.260 when we need electricity the most, when it's minus 40 degrees here, there's no solar generation and there's no wind.

00:22:59.220 They can't run the windmills.

00:23:00.880 They'll break.

00:23:02.100 The hydraulics are frozen when it gets that cold.

00:23:05.140 The other peaks are in the summer when it's extremely hot.

00:23:08.460 Well, the wind typically doesn't go, and solar panels don't perform well in high heat.

00:23:13.780 So, this idea, and then they have this thing of line loss that they don't understand.

00:23:18.400 When you, as soon as you put electricity down a transmission line, at each mile it goes or kilometer it goes, there's less of it.

00:23:25.060 Line loss.

00:23:26.000 If you stop and stand under one, you hear buzzing.

00:23:28.320 That's electricity dissipating.

00:23:29.800 So, this idea that we're going to be a renewable energy superpower and export this is pure fantasy.

00:23:37.520 It's delusional.

00:23:39.000 That's what it is.

00:23:39.740 It's all delusional.

00:23:40.920 Mark Carney is an incredibly radical person, and yet people like David Cochran and the CBC, it's like their job is to defend him and to pretend that he's a moderate person, pretend that he's down the middle of the road and that he will protect all.

00:23:52.840 I can understand the frustration in thinking that if Mark Carney got a majority government or a minority propped up by the bloc with that no pipelines, no oil and gas mentality, that that is just completely at odds with Alberta.

00:24:06.900 Premier Smith doesn't strike me as a separatist in any way.

00:24:10.620 I think she's tried to make it very clear that she wants Alberta to have more sovereignty, more independence, more respect, but not leading an actual separatist movement.

00:24:19.320 Although it just seems like reading the comments, reading the sentiment from people, even Juno News followers, reading the comments on our work, that there is a large appetite, a large amount of anger against the Laurentian elites, the establishment, the liberals and people like Mark Carney.

00:24:35.380 So, Keith, I'm wondering if you can maybe help us see what's going to happen next.

00:24:39.440 I don't want you to make a prediction, but what do you see happening in days and weeks?

00:24:44.400 What's going to happen from a legal perspective?

00:24:45.960 And do you think this movement is going to take off from here?

00:24:49.320 So, you know, first of all, I'm fortunate to have known Premier Smith prior to her being Premier.

00:24:56.980 I first met her and worked with her 20-some years ago, maybe 27 years ago, when she was the executive director of a property rights institute in Alberta.

00:25:05.900 And I've gotten to know her.

00:25:08.160 And fundamentally, she believes in democracy.

00:25:10.940 And she believes in grassroots democracy in the sense that the people should decide, that she's the leader of the people, but the people should set the direction.

00:25:20.840 So I think that's what you're seeing here with the making, increasing the tools that citizens have to give direction to their government.

00:25:30.120 In terms of next steps, it's not – this is a – the legislation sets out a very rigid and formal process for a citizen-initiated petition.

00:25:40.700 And it's not just any piece of paper.

00:25:43.400 It's not just any website.

00:25:44.680 There will be no digital.

00:25:45.980 It's going to have to be actual forms that are obtained from our chief electoral office and sanctioned and approved with a clear question.

00:25:56.660 And specific forms will be issued in an organization.

00:26:00.240 Organizations will then go out and try and secure the signature, the address and the phone number and the name of the individual and get the sufficient number.

00:26:09.240 I think that process is going to start fairly soon.

00:26:12.900 And I'm optimistic that that number will be achieved.

00:26:16.860 And then what will happen is if we do surpass the $177,000 mark, then the government will be obligated to schedule and hold a referendum.

00:26:29.960 We do have municipal elections previously scheduled that are going to occur in October of this year.

00:26:35.700 As to whether the timing would line up to hold the provincial referendum on separation at that time, I don't know.

00:26:42.540 Too early to tell.

00:26:44.720 And then on top – so that would then –

00:26:46.760 Wow.

00:26:47.260 That's coming up fast.

00:26:48.960 And so would it just be a simple majority, like 50 plus one?

00:26:53.220 Yeah, so how that works, Candice, is under the Supreme Court of Canada ruling, codified in the Federal Clarity Act, is that the referendum – so let's just say, for argument's sake, that things do move that quickly, and there is a provincial referendum on separation in Alberta in October in conjunction with our municipal elections, province-wide.

00:27:16.000 And what would then happen is if that passed in the affirmative with a clear majority of Albertans on a clear question, then it triggers a positive legal duty on the federal government, the provincial governments, and First Nations to enter into negotiations with Alberta as to the terms of Alberta leaving Confederation.

00:27:40.360 No one can sit it out, no one has a veto, they can't just say, well, I'm not coming, the First Nations can't say, no way, we're not interested, they have to participate, that's what the law is in Canada, as confirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada.

00:27:56.400 And the details will be worked on, it may be for the First Nations that they decide they want to keep their lands federal, and there'll be these little enclaves and continue to be ruled and administered by Ottawa, but that hasn't worked out so well for them either, for many of them.

00:28:13.340 They may want to be – and Alberta could step into the shoes and the treaties and honour them, or they may want to negotiate a whole new relationship, that would all be on the table.

00:28:22.800 And part of that agreement would include each province agreeing to amend, to issue, pass a resolution in their legislature confirming the terms of separation and succession, which would then meet the requirements for amending the constitution, that is a step.

00:28:40.140 And, but then we've got the wild card, Donald J. Trump, real estate mogul, likes to acquire things.

00:28:49.360 We, you know, Alberta has the third largest reserves of oil and gas, we have all, most of our cattle that's produced all goes to the United States, a lot of agricultural products go to the United States, we have a north-south trade, not an east-west trade, in terms of our economy.

00:29:05.440 He could be stepping in at various times as he tends to, and he may make some kind of offer that will completely change the dynamic of the sentiment in Alberta, as well as the negotiations with the rest of Canada.

00:29:23.440 Wow, unbelievable. What an interesting time for our country, for Alberta, for the future of Canada.

00:29:31.240 Keith, really appreciate your time. We're going to have to have you on frequently to help us understand and have updates on this as it goes. Appreciate your time today.

00:29:38.400 Thank you very much.

00:29:39.740 Right, that's Keith Wilson, a constitutional lawyer based in Alberta.

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00:29:47.420 I'm Candice Malcolm. This is The Candice Malcolm Show. Thank you and God bless.

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The Candice Malcolm Show - April 30, 2025

Alberta wants OUT？ Constitutional lawyer explains REFERENDUM changes and path to independence

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