The Candice Malcolm Show - Based prof HUMILIATES CBC reporter, leaves her in tears over unmarked graves LIES

00:00:00.000 Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is The Candice Malcolm Show. We have a great episode for you

00:00:07.020 today, folks. We have Professor Frances Widowson joining us in just a few minutes. But first,

00:00:12.480 I'm going to spend a bit of time providing some background, giving you a bit of a refresher

00:00:16.720 on what has happened in Canada with the story of the unmarked graves and the legacy media

00:00:22.700 hoax surrounding it. So we're going to go through a timeline. This episode is brought to you by

00:00:27.320 Albertans against no-fault insurance. More on them later. So as you recall, back in May of 2021,

00:00:35.200 the CDC published a bombshell report. This is what the headline said, remains of 215 children

00:00:41.800 found buried at former BC residential school. That report was based on a press release that was put

00:00:49.860 out by the Kamloops Indian Reserve. And let me tell you, the report was based on a preliminary finding.

00:00:56.620 It wasn't a detailed report. It wasn't any hard evidence. It was just a claim that a report was

00:01:02.040 forthcoming. Well, that didn't matter. The report went around the world. And the way that the media

00:01:07.000 covered it globally was even more hysterical than the way the Canadian media reported it. So here you

00:01:12.220 see the New York Times had this headline, horrible history, mass graves of Indigenous children reported

00:01:18.280 in Canada. And so you can see how they went from unmarked graves to a mass grave. While the Canadian

00:01:25.000 media quickly followed suit, the Toronto Star and others started calling them mass graves. Here is

00:01:30.240 a report just three days later, May 31st, 2021, from the Toronto Star, mass grave of Indigenous children

00:01:36.800 discovered at Kamloops, BC. We all remember how at the time, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau jumped on these

00:01:44.620 allegations. He wanted to be in front of them. He wanted to be Mr. Compassionate. And so here he was

00:01:49.220 photographed at one of the sites of another First Nations reserve, this one in Saskatchewan,

00:01:55.680 that claimed to have found 751 unmarked graves, part of the same moral panic and story. And of course,

00:02:02.960 Prime Minister was more than happy to do his photo op there. In reality, that one cemetery is worth

00:02:09.840 pointing out in Saskatchewan. That was not part of the residential school. Even in the initial Globe

00:02:15.860 and Mail report that was published on July 19, 2021, tucked away at the end of the report, it quotes a

00:02:22.480 band leader who said that they knew about the cemetery, that everybody knew about the cemetery.

00:02:27.640 It was a rural municipal cemetery. It had people that were Indigenous and non-Indigenous buried there,

00:02:35.080 and it was known by the entire community. That doesn't matter. The media narrative had already

00:02:39.400 taken off on its own. By the end of 2021, here is the Canadian press named the discovery of the

00:02:45.940 unmarked graves as the story of the year. It certainly was the most impactful, the most important

00:02:52.780 story of 2021. Part of the problem, folks, to be perfectly honest, is that there was no pushback,

00:02:57.720 right? Even the Conservative Party of Canada was more than happy to go along with this. They even

00:03:02.000 participated in a motion in the House of Commons saying that genocide was committed. Of course,

00:03:07.940 no such thing happened. Us at True North and here at the Candace Malcolm Show, we didn't buy it from

00:03:12.660 the very beginning. We were skeptical. We were asking questions. In fact, in 2021, the same year,

00:03:17.740 the Candace Malcolm Show, we named it the biggest fake news narrative of the year. It landed at number

00:03:24.240 one. And I also published this piece earlier in the year, back in July of 2021, the six things the

00:03:30.180 media got wrong about the graves found near the residential schools. I should have written the

00:03:34.940 alleged graves found near the residential schools. That became the most read article in the history

00:03:40.360 of True North. It was later surpassed by Cosmic Church's reporting on the maps of the churches that

00:03:45.100 have been burnt. We had a map of Canada and we kept track of all of the churches that have been

00:03:49.420 vandalized or burnt down or victims of arson. I think the total number is over 125 now. And that has

00:03:56.300 become the number one piece that we have reported. But still, we were part of the small handful of

00:04:03.240 Canadians that were pushing back against this narrative. And look, folks, the truth has come

00:04:08.600 out. The truth has come out. More and more Canadians know that this story is not based on facts. There have

00:04:15.500 been no human remains found at these residential schools. In Kamloops, there hasn't been any kind of

00:04:20.960 excavation at all. It's based on very sort of preliminary science and something called ground

00:04:25.700 penetrating radar that suspects that there are anomalies. They don't even call them graves anymore.

00:04:31.620 They call them anomalies. The few places where there have been excavations, no remains have found. And

00:04:37.640 even the legacy media has been forced to admit that. So here is the CBC reporting in August of 2023,

00:04:43.540 no evidence of human remains found beneath the church at Pine Creek residential school sites. That was

00:04:49.340 another one of these sites that was claimed to have bodies been found. When they did the excavation,

00:04:55.160 none were found. There are several other examples of places where there have been excavations in August

00:05:00.860 2021. In Nova Scotia, they conducted an excavation at a former site of residential school. No bones were

00:05:07.720 found. There's allegations of clandestine burials. Nothing was found. And then again, in Edmonton,

00:05:13.880 in October of 2021, there was an excavation done at the Camsell Hospital. And once again,

00:05:19.820 no human remains were found. And so that is where we are today. I'm very pleased that True North was

00:05:26.200 part of an important book that was published. We published this book called Grave Error. It was

00:05:31.780 published in December of 2023. It quickly became the number one bestselling book on Amazon in Canada,

00:05:38.880 became a Canadian bestseller. And one of the authors is a collection of essays. It's edited

00:05:44.200 by Dr. Champion and Tom Flanagan, a retired professor at the University of Calgary. One of

00:05:48.940 the contributors to that book is Frances Widowson. She is a political scientist and a free speech

00:05:54.060 activist. She was an associate professor at Mont Royal University from 2008 until she was dismissed

00:06:00.200 in 2021. I'm very pleased to welcome her to the show today. Frances, thank you so much for doing the

00:06:05.100 program. Thanks for having me on. Well, first, I want to say that you were dismissed from your role

00:06:11.140 at the Mont Royal University, but then your dismissal was deemed to be disproportionate. So

00:06:18.680 after an arbiter ruled that the university had acted disproportionately when they dismissed you. So

00:06:25.860 why don't you tell us what is the latest with you and Mont Royal University in Calgary?

00:06:30.340 Yes. So that decision came down last year. But unfortunately, the arbitrator decided that

00:06:40.260 although I had been unjustly terminated, I could not be reinstated because of the friction that

00:06:46.940 supposedly existed between me and a number of scholar activists at Mount Royal University who cannot

00:06:53.260 tolerate their views being questioned. So my case is being appealed to the Alberta

00:07:00.260 Labor Relations Board and that appeal is going to be heard in December of this year. So we'll find

00:07:06.840 out whether hopefully the Alberta Labor Relations Board will seriously look at this case. The arbitrator's

00:07:14.740 decision, in my view, was seriously flawed and the union agrees as well. So hopefully I will be

00:07:22.020 reinstated very shortly to Mount Royal University and be back doing my research and classroom activities

00:07:28.820 providing a much needed counterbalance to the advocacy that is going on at Mount Royal University around

00:07:36.900 things like the unmarked graves and the false claims that were made about that.

00:07:41.620 Well, I think the students at that university would be very lucky to have you back there. So let's talk a little

00:07:47.540 bit about the book Graver. So we published it at the very end of 2023. We just felt like we needed to have

00:07:54.180 a counter piece of evidence, right? There's so much misinformation floating around in the media and

00:07:59.380 because of that there's a perception I think in the minds of too many Canadians that something horrible,

00:08:04.260 something akin to genocide happened at schools across the country. We just wanted something to be able to

00:08:09.540 point to point to and say, like, hear the other side of the story. Hear the side of the story that most Canadians

00:08:15.540 believed up until about five years ago. And so you did a great service by providing that. Tell us a little bit about

00:08:22.500 why you want to be involved in this project and then some of the reaction to the book from your perspective.

00:08:28.580 So I wanted to be involved because I, from very early on and just like yourself, I was quite skeptical

00:08:36.580 about the claim that was made in May 2021 because I had been studying the residential schools since,

00:08:44.340 I guess, 2016 after the Truth and Reconciliation report came out. And I thought that the report was

00:08:50.260 very unbalanced and advocacy oriented and needed to be critically analyzed. And then when this claim came

00:08:58.500 out, we actually held an event on July 10th, 2021, with Brian Giesbrecht and Rodney Clifton,

00:09:06.580 where we were raising the alarm about how this was premature, claiming that remains have been found.

00:09:13.060 And Brian Giesbrecht, in fact, raised the issue of the cemeteries, the abandoned cemeteries, of which

00:09:19.220 there are many. But it turns out that Kamloops is not an abandoned cemetery because it is the apple orchard.

00:09:25.940 And there's actually a cemetery on the reserve itself where some children from the residential

00:09:33.300 school are buried. And there are many unmarked graves, graves that are now unmarked in that cemetery

00:09:39.860 because the markers have deteriorated. So I sensed that there were, there were some problems with these

00:09:46.100 claims and I wanted them to be investigated. But it was a really, it was a huge battle trying to get

00:09:53.300 pieces published to critique that claim. And this book was the first initiative, kind of written

00:10:02.740 initiative, a compilation of the work of all the critics who had been working on this issue for a

00:10:10.660 few years by the time that that book came out. Well, it's interesting, Frances, because at the time

00:10:15.540 when this happened, I was still writing in the Toronto Sun. I wrote for the Toronto Sun for about eight years,

00:10:20.020 finishing at the end of 2021. And so initially I was writing columns on these stories and I had no

00:10:25.860 pushback whatsoever from my editor. They actually liked it because it was an interesting other side

00:10:29.540 of the story. Even though I will tell you in my personal life, friends, even professional colleagues,

00:10:34.020 even people at True North were opposed to what I was doing. Like I had a member of our board quit.

00:10:39.060 I had an editor quit and rage over this stuff. Like they, they really didn't like, didn't like this

00:10:44.020 because it was so sensitive at the time, right? Everybody was so careful and worried and they

00:10:49.220 didn't want to be seen as sensitive. And even conservatives said, well, you know, we didn't

00:10:52.260 like the idea of the residential schools because it's a big government program, et cetera, et cetera.

00:10:56.740 By the end of 2021, the Toronto Sun told me that I was no longer welcome to publish pieces. They

00:11:02.180 didn't tell me why. But this was the kind of thing that I was writing a lot. And like I said, I said that

00:11:07.220 it was the biggest hoax of 2021. So connecting those lines, I think that it was part of the reason.

00:11:12.420 And you're right. There was almost no coverage of this in the legacy media, despite so many

00:11:18.180 voices and so many people just asking really basic questions, not even making any claims,

00:11:23.460 just asking questions about like, you know, what, what the accusations were and, and asking for more

00:11:29.220 facts. Now I want to move this along. So in March of 2024, so some three months after this book was

00:11:36.580 published, um, basically the, there was a controversy at the Quesnel city council, um,

00:11:44.100 because this book, uh, was distributed to members of the city council by the wife of the mayor.

00:11:50.580 And so the Quesnel city council voted unanimously to denounce this book, um, saying that it downplayed

00:11:56.660 the harms of the residential schools and first nations and counselors raised concerns that the

00:12:01.060 mayor's wife had been distributing it. And so at that point you were invited or you decided to travel

00:12:06.420 to Quesnel to speak at a city council meeting. And, um, I have a clip from the, um, from the city council

00:12:15.060 meeting, uh, where you were basically, um, told that you were not welcome there. Let's, uh, let's play that clip.

00:12:20.820 Does the council concern itself with misinformation? Is it opposed to misinformation being spread

00:12:28.420 and entered into the record? If so, does it agree that this is misinformation because there is no

00:12:36.180 evidence of, uh, unmarked graves at the Kamloops Indian residential school?

00:12:43.940 Her opinion in this, in this chambers does not count. She's asking us to comment on something that comes

00:12:49.780 from qualified individuals that dealt with this, that lived through this. Ma'am, you are not welcome

00:12:55.940 here. So, I mean, what a scene, right? Hundreds of people showing up, heckling you, booing you,

00:13:01.540 and you just stating the facts, uh, being very calm and measured, um, and sort of a hysterical reaction

00:13:06.580 to you. So, uh, walk us through what happened, what brought you to Quesnel and some background to that.

00:13:13.220 Yeah. So Pat Morton, as soon as I heard that Pat Morton was under fire,

00:13:18.740 for just sharing the book with a friend and, uh, sending a copy to the school board saying that

00:13:25.940 they might consider having it in their library. She got, her husband, the mayor, uh, got, uh,

00:13:32.740 attacked. He was being attacked because of her, what she had done. Unfortunately, he sort of allowed

00:13:39.300 himself to be, you know, drawn into this discussion when he should have just said, look,

00:13:44.100 my wife is not a public figure. She's allowed to share books with whoever she wants. Anyway, um,

00:13:50.340 things started to get really nasty in Quesnel. And for example, her son has a tax business and the band

00:13:59.220 was, you know, withdrew its business and there was, you know, it's a very small community, so it was

00:14:04.020 not pleasant. And she heard there was going to be this terrible protest that was going to be happening. So

00:14:08.740 she asked if any, you know, person who was a contributor to grave error could come. And because

00:14:14.260 I was in Calgary, I was, I was sort of the person to like, I, I volunteered to do it and drive to

00:14:19.860 Quesnel. And, uh, when I arrived there and was in the, uh, the gallery, we were supposed to be given,

00:14:27.700 um, some time about a, I'm not sure what the time limit, I heard that we were going to be given,

00:14:32.020 everyone was going to be given a certain amount of time to make a statement,

00:14:35.380 but I thought that that was going to be unlikely. So I knew according to the rules,

00:14:39.540 you could pose a question, uh, from the gallery. So I had both, both things planned.

00:14:45.060 And then when I went up there, uh, they allowed the, the Aboriginal,

00:14:50.340 you know, representatives to talk for, you know, minutes on end about things completely

00:14:56.100 unrelated to the agenda. And then they strictly controlled what Pat Morton and I could say.

00:15:01.700 And then, but I had my question, the most important question, which was in this document

00:15:06.900 from the British Columbia assembly of first nations, they had the false claim that remains of

00:15:12.340 or graves of 215 children have been found. And so I was asking a question specifically on that.

00:15:18.100 And I was booed and treated absolutely horribly by these two counselors, Scott Elliott and another,

00:15:25.220 uh, counselor's name is Laurie Ann Rudenberg. They were unbelievable in their totalitarianism.

00:15:32.580 And that whole meeting was a circus and it is, and Pat Morton was treated, she was treated worse

00:15:38.580 than me. So the whole thing was just an embarrassment, uh, for that city council. And there's a number of

00:15:44.340 city councils who have similar problems, Powell River city council, and also Sechelt city council. So

00:15:50.980 it's a very dysfunctional situation in terms of the, you know, Aboriginal groups being able to control

00:15:56.500 what happens in city councils now. Well, we're going to get to the documentary that you published,

00:16:02.020 I think it was last month, where you do an excellent job sort of outlining the sort of post-truth

00:16:07.140 world that we live in, where people don't even care about the truth. And you can say like,

00:16:10.980 hey, you said that this book is racist. Can you give me an example of how it's racist? And they'll

00:16:15.780 basically accuse you of being racist for just even asking that question and saying that they don't need to

00:16:20.420 to have any evidence whatsoever. I want to talk about your interview with the CBC and with their

00:16:26.740 young reporter out there named Dorden Tucker, which they thankfully you recorded your own side of it

00:16:33.060 because this was an absolute train wreck and so embarrassing on behalf of the CBC. So this is all

00:16:39.620 in the context of you going up to Quenelle, maybe, uh, before I start playing some clips, can you sort of

00:16:46.260 walk us through how this interview came to be? Did she just sort of reach out to you out of the blue

00:16:51.220 or had you been communicating with her in the past? Let me just give us a bit of background.

00:16:54.980 Yes. So I never heard of her. I'd never interacted with her. She had obviously heard that I was coming

00:17:01.460 to Quenelle and, you know, wanted to, you know, find out if there were nefarious, uh, things at work.

00:17:09.460 And, and so she set up an interview with me and I think this was, uh, the day before or a couple,

00:17:14.420 two days before I went to Quenelle. And then we had, she, we set up a zoom call. This, this was on

00:17:21.620 zoom. Uh, I wish I had a screen, you know, and I now know how to screen record. I wish I'd had a screen

00:17:27.300 recording of that, but I just had audio on it. And I was, I was, I, I've never had an interview like

00:17:32.980 that before. I I've had bad interviews, but usually the interviews are quite professional.

00:17:38.580 It's in the actual piece that is produced afterwards where the problem arises. But this

00:17:43.540 interview right from the start, she was making all these accusations and that what, that's what got me

00:17:49.300 in such a confrontational kind of position is because I was being asked all these questions

00:17:55.060 about who was paying for my trip and whether I was financially benefiting from it. You know, when,

00:18:00.580 you know, I was taking a great deal of time out of my own schedule. Uh, I was getting, you know,

00:18:05.700 probably going to get some expenses paid, but I wasn't making any money off of it. I was doing it

00:18:09.860 purely to ensure that the city council was held to account for the, the libelous things that they

00:18:17.460 were saying about, um, you know, the contributors of the book, Grave Error. Okay. We've got a bunch

00:18:23.780 of clips that we are going to play just in a moment, folks. I want to take a second though,

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00:19:14.100 All right, Francis, I want to play, let's go with the first, uh, clip that we have here,

00:19:18.820 which is alluding to what you were saying, where the interviewer, Jordan Tucker, a CBC reporter,

00:19:24.260 is pressing you on who's covering your travel funds. And then I've spliced it together with

00:19:29.060 a clip later on where you talk about how she's wondering, you know, why would people invent or

00:19:34.340 embellish these claims? And you said, well, the government has given them $7 million. So that's

00:19:38.260 pretty good incentive. $7 million is pretty good incentive to exaggerate your story. And she kind

00:19:42.900 of like shrugs it off like, oh, who cares about $7 million? Um, so let's play that clip, please.

00:19:47.860 Are you being, are your travel expenses being paid by anyone? Um, or are you paying them yourself?

00:19:55.380 We'll see what, what washes out of the whole thing. What do you mean by that?

00:20:00.500 It depends on how much the expenses are, but I don't really see why I have to, uh, justify my,

00:20:08.020 my travel to Quesnel, uh, to people. Uh, I'm coming. Well, if you were invited.

00:20:13.140 I was invited. Yes. And you won't tell me by who, and I'm wondering, are you selling books?

00:20:18.500 What's your motivation to go? Um, first of all, I received no money whatsoever for the books.

00:20:25.140 Don't you think that it's quite like a lot, a lot of trouble to go to, to say that 215 children

00:20:34.180 died in order to get $7 million? There's a lot of other ways to get $7 million.

00:20:38.500 I just, I, you, you could have made this up, right? First, you could sense in her voice,

00:20:43.300 just how insecure she is, how whiny, she just seems really upset. She doesn't

00:20:47.300 want to have to justify anything she's doing. Um, and, and, and she's really concerned over,

00:20:52.020 I don't know, I don't know what gas money from Calgary to Quesnel is, maybe a few hundred dollars.

00:20:56.900 And then like in the same breath, she's like, oh, seven, there's a lot of ways to get $7 million.

00:21:02.500 Um, just totally unbelievable. I want to play one more clip for you here.

00:21:05.540 Um, this is unbelievable. This, this goes to show folks how ill-informed some members of the press

00:21:11.940 are and sadly how many Canadians are. So, so the, the reporter again, you know, you would think that

00:21:17.140 she would come to an interview prepared with facts, with research, probably having read the book,

00:21:23.380 or at least the chapter that you could review. You know, you, you just wrote one, one chapter of

00:21:27.060 the book. I think it's like 20, 25 pages. I get that it's not the easiest book to read,

00:21:31.060 um, but you can get it at libraries across Canada. You could go and pick this book up,

00:21:34.660 read it for free. Uh, just, just even read Francis's, um, uh, one essay in there. You could

00:21:40.420 tell she didn't do that. And in the interview, she claims, she claims as fact that 6,000 bodies

00:21:47.540 have been found, 6,000 bodies. And you asked her, her source, and she said the Truth and Reconciliation

00:21:52.900 Commission report, which is a written report that came out in 2015. It doesn't even make any sense.

00:21:58.020 These claims of unmarked graves didn't come out until 2021. You just get a snapshot of just how

00:22:04.660 ignorant these people are. Let's play that clip, please. Because there's, there's been over 6,000

00:22:10.260 bodies found at this point. Um, are all of those? What, what bodies, what bodies have been found?

00:22:17.540 I, I'm going with information from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and then various other

00:22:22.660 government bodies. No, no, but you said 6,000 bodies have been found.

00:22:28.580 That's the current, that's the current number. Yeah, that's all.

00:22:31.220 And you say the Truth and Reconciliation Commission says that 6,000 bodies have been found?

00:22:38.740 Can I complete my questions, please? I'm just, you're the one who made that claim.

00:22:43.060 And as a journalist, you should be concerned about the accuracy of your claims.

00:22:49.700 Unbelievable. Um, so I guess just, uh, what was it, what was it like to be met with a CBC reporter like that?

00:22:56.180 I, I was, I was amazed. I, I've never seen a level of incompetence and, and, you know, she's not a,

00:23:01.780 uh, you know, uh, the, uh, head of the broadcasting department or anything. She's obviously sort of

00:23:08.100 freelance and so on, but still the CBC used to be, uh, in, you know, an important media institution

00:23:15.540 that would have had some oversight and be training its, the people that work for it to do

00:23:21.300 proper journalism. And that's obviously not happening at all anymore.

00:23:25.940 Well, absolutely. And so I'll just play one more clip from this, uh, interview. And folks,

00:23:30.260 if you want to watch the whole thing, it's well worth your time. Frances has put it up on her

00:23:33.220 YouTube page. We'll link that in the description so you can go, uh, you'll either be like wildly

00:23:37.780 entertained or just like sorely depressed at the state of the, the thinking, um, behind the journalists

00:23:44.500 in this country. Um, but here is how the interview ends, which is, uh, Frances rightly calling this

00:23:50.820 journalist out and, uh, discrediting her credibility. Uh, let's play that clip.

00:23:55.060 Uh, I think you really need to read that book because you do not have an understanding at all.

00:24:01.140 Ma'am, I don't need that from you. Thank you.

00:24:03.300 Well, you are a seriously incompetent journalist and this is what the CBC has sunk to these days.

00:24:12.900 I don't think that you accusing me or shouting at me is very helpful to your case.

00:24:18.580 Well, I don't really think I'm shouting at you. I'm just telling you for someone who is here

00:24:24.420 doing an interview on this case. Ma'am, please stop. Please stop. That's enough.

00:24:29.620 This interview is now over. Thank you for your time.

00:24:33.780 I mean, just not to, not to be too cruel to this young lady, but she was so unprepared for the

00:24:39.540 interview and any time you called her on her BS or called her out for pushing total lies, she would

00:24:46.180 just sort of like break character and be like, I don't need this from you or like stop shouting at me or

00:24:52.020 stop interrupting me. And it's like, this is how you have a debate, right? It's like you're making

00:24:56.900 claims that are false. So the person you're interviewing is calling you out on that. And

00:25:01.620 rather than trying to back it up, she's just sort of gets upset and pouts and has a temper tantrum.

00:25:08.420 Okay, Francis, I want to show the audience what the CBC published, because this is just classic CBC

00:25:14.660 deception, right? They she records this long interview with you, where she stumbles through

00:25:19.060 the facts, she can't get her questions out. And then she gets upset. I think she was in tears,

00:25:24.420 and she ended the interview. And yet, to the CBC audience, this is I believe it was a radio segment,

00:25:30.020 because we just had the soundbite of it. But this is how they presented it to the public. Let's play

00:25:35.220 that a soft five. After indigenous leaders called it harmful and painful. As Jordan Tucker tells us,

00:25:41.620 the author won't say who invited her, or if she's being paid for travel costs. There's terrible

00:25:47.220 censoriousness. Francis Widdowson co wrote a book casting doubt on the harmfulness of Canada's

00:25:52.820 residential schools. A former professor, she was fired from Calgary's Mount Royal University three

00:25:58.420 years ago following her comments on the residential school system and the Black Lives Matter movement.

00:26:03.700 The book features articles contesting evidence of unmarked graves at sites across the country.

00:26:08.660 As occurred in the case of the satanic panic, they are people who are distressed,

00:26:14.980 who have their memories influenced by these sorts of things.

00:26:17.700 Unbelievable, Francis. This is why it's so important, folks. Anytime you're being recorded by,

00:26:25.300 interviewed by a CBC or any journalist, record it yourself. Have your own copy of it so that you can

00:26:29.940 bring the receipts and show the world the real interview. But what did you, what did you make of

00:26:34.820 all that? Yes, and the most serious thing, and I think it's very valuable for people to look at that

00:26:41.940 interview because it shows the thought process of not just this particular journalist, but people who

00:26:49.380 believe this claim. And it was about her arguing that the 215 bodies have been found. We got into a

00:26:56.900 big skirmish about this. And she said that, you know, why would, you know, all these smart people in

00:27:02.500 the government, why would they believe this if it weren't true? Like, this is a journalist. A journalist is

00:27:08.340 supposed to be, you know, holding leaders to account and so on. But she has been completely credulous

00:27:14.580 in her, you know, in her interaction with leaders, you know, politicians, Aboriginal leaders, and so on.

00:27:23.140 So I think it's a very valuable thing to look at just from the thought processes that are going on

00:27:30.260 about this case. Well, in your chapter in Grave Error, you do talk about the moral panic of the 1980s with

00:27:38.100 the satanic daycare scandal, which I didn't know that much about. I learned it from your book.

00:27:42.340 But it seemed like in the interview, she was kind of drawing you down a bit of a rabbit hole.

00:27:46.020 And then she took that one little clip and kind of played it out of context to make it seem like you

00:27:50.820 were talking about satanic rituals or something like that. Like it was, it was just classic bait and

00:27:55.380 switch, like deceptive journalism. And I'm glad that you again posted it so that Canadians can see,

00:28:02.580 OK, Frances, I want to move on to this excellent documentary that you have released. And I don't

00:28:09.300 know when it was published, but I watched it a few days ago and it really is worth your time. It's

00:28:13.860 called What Remains Exposing the Kamloops Massgrave Deception's Impact on Powell River. So can you tell

00:28:20.180 us about why you chose to do a documentary on Powell River, right? Like, I think that a lot of people are

00:28:26.180 focusing on what's happened in Kamloops and that Indian Reservation. Talk to us about what's

00:28:32.100 happening in Powell River.

00:28:34.020 Yeah. So this documentary is actually the initial one in a series that Simon Hare got, who is a

00:28:41.060 videographer and journalist. He was a journalist who worked for Global News for 10 years and was fired

00:28:46.900 because of his opposition to the media outlets coverage of a number of issues. He's an incredible

00:28:53.700 talent and he was the one who did most of the work on this documentary. I was involved in sort of

00:29:00.820 with some of the background information that I had and obviously was featured in it. But anyway,

00:29:06.820 we're planning on doing another more in-depth kinds of examinations in the Kamloops case itself

00:29:15.300 and the massive institutional failure that has happened in the media, in the school board,

00:29:22.500 the universities and all these institutions which really explain why this deception has taken root.

00:29:30.020 But what people don't understand is that although this happened in Kamloops, this claim that was made

00:29:36.580 in May 2021 has had far-reaching consequences and one of the consequences was in the town of Powell River

00:29:47.380 where this claim was used by the chief of the local Indian band to demand, to make the demand that the

00:29:55.300 town's name should be changed. And it turns out, and another reason was that the town was supposedly

00:30:02.660 named after Israel Wood Powell, who was the superintendent. It was a head official in the Department of Indian

00:30:08.740 Affairs. It turns out that the town was not even named after Israel Wood Powell. It was named after Edward Powell,

00:30:15.060 who was a cartographer who had mapped the area. So both of the claims behind why this town's name

00:30:22.980 should be changed were not correct, yet they're still continuing to press for this. And this has

00:30:28.500 completely ripped apart this community. And this is the kind of thing that these so-called truth and

00:30:35.300 reconciliation efforts do is that they have nothing to do with truth. It is about fomenting these falsehoods

00:30:42.980 so that grievances can be stirred up. And then, of course, it results in all these fights between

00:30:50.580 people which then benefit all the legal disputes that are going to emerge out of all these interactions.

00:30:58.740 And one of the biggest things that's happened that has also impacted Powell River is the Kamloops claim

00:31:04.260 was used to push through the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples

00:31:10.100 into federal legislation. There was opposition from both the Conservative Party and six provinces.

00:31:16.340 And when that claim was made, everyone just was saying, well, what can we do to right this wrong?

00:31:22.820 And that allowed that legislation to be pushed through. So now we've got to deal with a whole bunch of

00:31:28.820 implications of what it means to have this kind of internationalist notion undermine Canadian sovereignty

00:31:37.780 and all the disputes, all the legal disputes that are going to result from that. So we went into Powell River,

00:31:44.100 Simon Hergott and me, and did a lot of footage of the various kinds of problems that existed in Powell River.

00:31:51.700 And it was quite a fascinating case study, which showed a lot of the, you know, flawed thought

00:31:57.620 processes that are occurring with respect to the Kamloops case.

00:32:00.820 Well, you do an excellent job. The documentary does an excellent job debunking some of the

00:32:05.380 prevalences, exposing the sort of industry around First Nations, like the consultants and sometimes

00:32:11.060 even the academic professors. You debunked a New York Times documentary or clip segment pretending to

00:32:18.820 show that they had found babies buried. And you had a geophysicist who said, there's no way,

00:32:23.620 you know, these, these images of the guys showing on the screen are maybe 10 to 12 centimeters.

00:32:29.140 Those aren't remains of humans. Those are probably boulders or animal burrows. There's another part where

00:32:35.220 a protester shows up to, to protest you, you confront her. We're going to play this clip of you just

00:32:42.020 trying to engage with a protestor and just showing how totally unprepared and unwilling

00:32:47.460 these people are to debate their ideas. Let's play Saud 8, please.

00:32:50.580 Could you explain to me your position? No. Are you not interested in what my arguments are?

00:32:58.900 I know what they are. Okay. Okay. So, so what, what are my arguments?

00:33:06.100 I don't need to speak your work back to you. I'm not in a lecture. I'm not your student. I won't be

00:33:12.420 summarizing your work for you. No, but do you want to be accurate in your,

00:33:16.100 the way you're portraying my work? Do you think that being accurate? You think your work isn't racist.

00:33:22.420 Um, but you think it is? Yes. So why do you think it's racist? It fully is racist. But, but what,

00:33:30.180 if you're going to say that my work is racist, don't you think that you have a responsibility to

00:33:35.860 say why you think it's racist? Not to you. So, you know, I, it, it, it, it would be funny again,

00:33:43.220 if it weren't so depressing, the state of our country and how these people are totally unwilling.

00:33:48.020 Like I was even looking, Francis, I was looking before this episode to see if anyone had written

00:33:51.860 a thoughtful rebuke or like criticism of grave error to see if, if anyone had kind of gone through it

00:33:58.580 and tried to debunk it. And from the best I could tell, there hasn't been any effort to do anything

00:34:03.220 like that. Um, there's another, uh, part in your video that just sort of shows, it's almost like a

00:34:08.260 nihilism, right? It's like people don't care about what the truth is. They, they just care that

00:34:13.620 someone's truth. It's like, we have to respect their truth. Um, and it, it, it does sort of show,

00:34:19.140 um, a sad state of affairs in British Columbia. Any, any final thoughts? And where can people,

00:34:23.780 uh, find the documentary? Yes. So it's on YouTube. Uh, the, the documentary,

00:34:30.020 uh, you can just, uh, it's Francis Whittleson 1600. Um, and we are now fundraising to try to

00:34:37.780 produce a whole bunch of other related documentaries on the institutional failure

00:34:43.460 that has surrounded the Kamloops case, um, especially in the universities and in the media,

00:34:49.140 but also institutions like the RCMP and the school board and the coroner's office,

00:34:57.220 just endless institutions that if they had been operating properly,

00:35:02.260 they would have been able to sound the alarm and, you know, created a bit of caution

00:35:07.300 about people making these outlandish claims. And it just doesn't stop because now we have the

00:35:13.220 Cooper Island residential school case, which is just as crazy. And everyone, all the journalists

00:35:19.940 are just covering this in the exact same way, which is just completely lacking in any kind of skepticism

00:35:26.660 and any kind of critical questioning of the claims that, uh, Aboriginal leaders and their

00:35:32.660 lawyers and their consultants are making with respect to these unmarked, unmarked graves.

00:35:38.100 Well, I definitely encourage everyone to go out and watch the documentary and support Francis's

00:35:41.780 work, allow her to do more of these important documentaries to help get the truth out there.

00:35:46.500 Francis, thank you so much for your time and keep up the great work.

00:35:48.820 Thanks for, thanks for having me on.

00:35:50.820 All right, folks, that's all the time we have for today. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm

00:35:53.940 Candice Malcolm. This is the Candice Malcolm Show. Thank you and God bless.

The Candice Malcolm Show - August 07, 2025

Based prof HUMILIATES CBC reporter, leaves her in tears over unmarked graves LIES

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