The Candice Malcolm Show - Carney doubles down on Trudeau-era gun grab

00:00:00.000 Welcome to The Candace Malcolm Show. My name is Chris Sims. I'm the Alberta Director for the

00:00:07.660 Canadian Taxpayers Federation. And when I say we have a special show for you, boy, do I mean it.

00:00:14.460 We're going to get right into the gun issue here in Canada. And I'm not talking about the gang

00:00:20.800 bangers on the streets of Toronto who are causing mayhem, ruining lives with illegal handguns.

00:00:26.980 I am talking about the federal government's confiscation of private property from legal,

00:00:34.880 law-abiding firearms owners. We're going to be speaking with an expert on this. We're also

00:00:41.080 going to be speaking with the Toronto Police Association, who is rightly speaking up and

00:00:46.600 saying, hey, we do have a gun problem on the streets of Toronto, but it's not the duck hunters in

00:00:52.820 Manitoba who are the problem. It's not the sports shooters in London, Ontario, who are trying to go

00:00:58.220 out to the range, who are causing the problem. It's the criminals who are committing the crime here.

00:01:04.320 The reason why we need to dive into this now is because it seems like the federal liberal government

00:01:10.560 is deciding to go ahead now with its confiscation rollout of lawfully obtained firearms.

00:01:20.000 What that means is, if you had legally obtained a certain kind of firearm, okay, before May of 2020,

00:01:29.440 unless you surrender that firearm over to the state somehow, you will instantly become a criminal.

00:01:36.260 So the language we're now hearing from Ottawa goes something like this. Yeah, we know we've been

00:01:42.540 kicking this around for the past five years. Yeah, we know that we've actually ruined several

00:01:47.960 normal gun businesses. And yeah, we think that now that we're going to be dangling some form of

00:01:54.620 monetary compensation at cost to taxpayers, by the way, we're actually going to have more people

00:02:01.300 happy about this, happy to surrender their private property to the government. Now, this is the thing.

00:02:08.400 I'm a firearms owner, okay? It's easy to say, oh, well, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to

00:02:14.280 comply. That's not who people are within the law-abiding firearms community. Folks who are

00:02:21.280 legally owning guns in Canada are usually big sticklers for rules. That's because we have to

00:02:29.280 go through major screening when we want to legally own a firearm in Canada. Even if you just want to

00:02:36.100 have a regular rifle or a shotgun in Canada, like, you know, more than two and a half million-ish people

00:02:41.920 do in Canada, if you want to go do that, you have to get a firearms license. And there, they do big

00:02:48.260 background checks. They phone all of your ex-boyfriends and girlfriends. You have to have an

00:02:53.460 instructor sign off on everything you do. There's storage rules. There's transportation rules. There's

00:02:59.300 all sorts of stuff that goes along with being a legal law-abiding firearms owner. So yeah, unless you

00:03:05.220 comply with the government, you're going to be instantly a criminal. What an unfair situation

00:03:11.620 for so many firearms owners in Canada. Now, when we're talking about the cost to taxpayers,

00:03:17.680 this is already going to cost over a billion dollars with a B. We do not have the money for this.

00:03:25.880 Just picture it. Picture not just the compensation amounts that they're going to try to be offering

00:03:30.500 to people eventually. Picture the man hours, the people hours, as Prime Minister Justin Trudeau would

00:03:36.800 probably call it, of the law enforcement that is going to be required to what? Go door to door?

00:03:43.460 Say, now it's time to surrender your firearms? Or even somebody who's carefully approaching the

00:03:49.140 police station saying, um, I think I need to do this now. It's in my car. There's hours and hours and

00:03:55.740 hours of paperwork, right? So this is going to cause a big messy problem. And we wanted to highlight it

00:04:02.340 on this special show. So this is the Candace Malcolm show. It's on Juno News. You aren't going to hear

00:04:08.740 this level of expertise in detail on the mainstream media. And I'll tell you why. One, it's just sometimes

00:04:16.280 that they don't know. They see a movie like Rambo and they hear some politicians say assault style

00:04:22.820 weapons. And they picture some full auto machine gun, some person spraying bullets by holding their

00:04:30.020 trigger finger down. Those guns are not legal in Canada. They have not been legal in Canada since the

00:04:36.760 1970s. Okay. So there's a lot of bad information coming out of the mainstream media on this. A lot of

00:04:45.120 ignorance, a lot of water carrying that is happening right now for the Liberal government. That is why it's super

00:04:52.260 important for people to subscribe. Okay. Go to Juno News, subscribe to this show. Okay. Tell your

00:04:59.420 friends, especially if you're within the legal firearms community and you're at the range, tell

00:05:05.620 them about the show. Share this show online. Okay. I wanted to play you a clip which perfectly

00:05:13.420 illustrates the situation we're in. I'm laughing because otherwise I'll cry. Okay. I'm going to set

00:05:19.080 this up. The person who's asking the question is Andrew Lawton. You might remember him from such shows

00:05:25.340 as right here, at least the previous incarnation of this show. Andrew Lawton had his own show on

00:05:32.700 True North for years and years. He is now an elected member of parliament and he stood up in the house of

00:05:38.280 commons back when it was sitting, you know, for like 73 minutes after the election. And he asked the public

00:05:44.460 safety minister about the legal law-abiding right to own a firearm in Canada. And he kind of quizzed him

00:05:53.920 and he kind of failed. So let's listen.

00:05:56.840 Does the minister know what an RPAL is?

00:06:00.280 The Honourable Minister.

00:06:01.340 I do not.

00:06:02.580 Member.

00:06:05.820 Does the minister know what the CFSC is?

00:06:09.160 The Honourable Minister.

00:06:10.580 I do not. No.

00:06:12.060 Member.

00:06:13.180 I'll stipulate, Chair, that is the Canadian's firearm safety course that all gun owners in Canada have

00:06:17.640 to do to get their firearms license. Has the minister ever done the Canadian firearm safety course?

00:06:22.600 The Honourable Minister.

00:06:24.140 Speaker, is it my third week on the job? No, I have not.

00:06:27.260 The Honourable Member.

00:06:28.720 Does the minister know what safety classes and safety demands are expected of law-abiding Canadian

00:06:33.720 gun owners?

00:06:34.640 The Honourable Minister.

00:06:36.120 This is not about law-abiding gun owners, Mr. Speaker.

00:06:39.400 The Honourable Member.

00:06:40.880 How can the minister make that claim when he doesn't know the basic fundamentals of law-abiding

00:06:44.880 gun ownership in this country, Chair?

00:06:49.020 Did you hear what the minister said there at the very end? That is the most important part.

00:06:53.980 Now, it would be nice if the public safety minister, who is going to be the person in charge of

00:06:59.860 confiscating people's firearms, would know what an RPAL is. So that's a restricted license.

00:07:07.000 That's if you're able to own a handgun, not a shotgun or a rifle. That's what an RPAL is. It would be nice if he actually even had such a license.

00:07:15.740 But at the very basis of him saying this is not about legal gun owners in Canada, yeah, it is.

00:07:26.120 That's why we're having this conversation. If the federal government were trying to crack down

00:07:32.300 on criminals and gangbangers who are using gun, like, this conversation would be over.

00:07:39.000 This show wouldn't exist. None of these advocacy organizations, including the Taxpayers Federation,

00:07:44.660 including the CCFR, would be upset about this at all. It would be, okay, fine, you go do your

00:07:50.520 government thing and make people safe. But that isn't what is happening here. What is happening here

00:07:55.940 is something that the mainstream media is trying to euphemistically call a buyback program.

00:08:03.100 That's incorrect, just on its face, just verbally, okay, using words, because the firearms owners in

00:08:11.140 question did not purchase their firearms from the government. They legally acquired their firearms

00:08:18.540 from lawful firearms sellers. Usually a private company of some now have gone bankrupt due to this

00:08:27.920 confiscation. And that's exactly what this is. This is a confiscation program. And it is a

00:08:34.120 confiscation program that we do not have the money for. I'll give you a perfect example to explain why

00:08:40.700 we don't have the money for this and why the Taxpayers Federation is fighting this. Folks might remember

00:08:47.340 something called the Long Gun Registry, okay, way back in the mists of time, when then Liberal Prime Minister

00:08:54.420 Jean Chrétien was around, okay, remember when they had a balanced budget, that was magical. Okay, so they had a

00:09:00.660 long gun registry. And they wanted literally like duck hunters, okay, and ranchers, because ranchers need to keep

00:09:08.320 long guns on their property to take care of pests and stuff and threats to their livestock. They had a long gun

00:09:13.340 registry where you would have to register your long gun with the government. They estimated it was going

00:09:18.520 to cost taxpayers around $2 million with an M. By the time the smoke cleared, it cost us around $2 billion.

00:09:28.500 So times a thousand. So this is a huge problem. It is a problem of cost. And it's a problem of private

00:09:36.840 property. How are people trying to push back on this? How are people trying to convince Prime Minister

00:09:45.120 Mark Carney, who says he's a pragmatist, to look at the numbers, look at the spreadsheet, and walk away

00:09:52.620 from this? Because ultimately, this is the previous guy's mess. Mark Carney in good conscience can say,

00:09:59.580 you know what, guys, this doesn't make sense. We don't have the money for this. My administration as Prime

00:10:05.360 Minister is not going ahead with this. We're dropping it. We're going to focus on actually making the

00:10:11.020 streets safer and not blowing money going after law-abiding people. Who's in this fight? How can

00:10:18.560 we convince the government to do the right thing? Let's find out. Joining me now is Rod Giltaka. He is

00:10:24.880 the CEO and Executive Director for the Canadian Coalition for Firearms Rights. You've probably seen

00:10:31.440 their stickers on the backs of pickup trucks. I know it is super popular around Southern Alberta

00:10:37.260 here where I live in Lethbridge. They are a major advocacy organization for the legal ownership of

00:10:43.920 firearms in Canada. If you have not checked them out yet, I strongly encourage you to do so. After

00:10:50.160 this chat, I bet you, you just can't resist after listening to Rod. Thank you so much for joining us

00:10:54.700 today. Thanks, Chris. So, and I meant that. I've been listening to some of your earlier podcast

00:11:00.140 appearances and you're very passionate, very knowledgeable when it comes to the rights of

00:11:05.200 firearms owners here in Canada. Last I was looking, there was around two and a half million of us

00:11:11.720 here in Canada. Are those the latest numbers you have too? Yeah, somewhere around there, just slightly

00:11:16.780 under two and a half million for all licenses, both restricted and unrestricted. So what he means,

00:11:22.380 and I'm going to keep on translating for folks who aren't gun owners. I am a firearms owner in Canada.

00:11:28.280 I was raised on hunted meat. I see them as a tool, the same as one would have, say, a snowblower or a

00:11:34.140 chainsaw or a pickup truck. You have to use them responsibly, but I think that they're an essential

00:11:39.520 element of Canadian culture, frankly, especially Western Canadian culture. Now, when we're getting

00:11:44.880 into what's happening here, this is not going to affect all firearms owners. It is going to affect

00:11:51.360 firearms owners who own specific kinds of guns. And I wanted to reiterate, a lot of folks in the

00:11:57.920 media keep calling this thing a buyback. It is not a buyback. I did not purchase my gun from the

00:12:04.300 government. This is a confiscation of private property, which was legally obtained. And now

00:12:11.020 they've changed the rules. Do we have an estimation as to how many people, how many gun owners this is

00:12:17.320 affecting this rolling confiscation that it sounds like the federal government wants to go ahead with?

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00:12:53.600 Well, it's funny. The federal government says this affects somewhere around 140,000 firearms,

00:12:58.840 which is absolutely ridiculous. Nobody believes that for a second. There are somewhere around 90,000

00:13:05.960 AR-15s. AR-15s are registered. They're restricted firearms. So the government knows who has them and

00:13:12.160 how many there are. And so for them to say after all of these successive bans and all of the bans via

00:13:19.920 variant status from the RCMP, that somehow the total number of affected firearms is 140,000 is

00:13:27.600 ridiculous. It's probably nobody knows for sure because the overwhelming majority of these firearms

00:13:32.480 are unregistered. The government doesn't know who has them or where they are or how many there are.

00:13:38.980 But we think there should be somewhere maybe between half a million, 800,000, maybe up to

00:13:44.820 over a million. So it's a lot of guns. Based on my experience and the family I have, that

00:13:50.080 feels about right. Right. You start thinking about who among my family has certain kinds of firearms

00:13:56.040 legally obtained. And then you kind of work out the ratio. That feels about right. Now, the Canadian

00:14:02.640 Taxpayers Federation, we're right there with you. So we are fighting against this gun confiscation.

00:14:07.820 Last we checked, this current push to confiscate people's private property is going to cost taxpayers

00:14:15.580 more than a billion dollars. That's with a B. And for folks who are saying, oh, well,

00:14:20.980 their government's going to come in under budget. That's never happened. And I can only I can point

00:14:27.640 back to, of course, the long gun registry that they tried to do. Back then, they said it was going to

00:14:32.800 cost around two million with an M. After the smoke all cleared, they were getting close to two billion

00:14:39.480 with a B by the time they were done. And it didn't make Canadians safer. We are going to get into the

00:14:46.080 whole safety issue. We've got actually a spokesperson for the Toronto Police Association. So somebody who's

00:14:52.080 in connection with the boys and girls in blue right on the front line. So we're going to get into the

00:14:55.980 element that this doesn't make Canadians safer. What I wanted to focus in on with you, Rod, is how

00:15:01.860 undemocratic and really unfair this is to have your lawfully purchased private property seized by the

00:15:10.300 state at great expense to you. Keep in mind, the government doesn't have a magical money pot.

00:15:15.980 They're blowing taxpayers money to do this, to set up these registries, to set up all the administration,

00:15:21.900 to try to get the police, you know, who are already strapped for time and people to try to go pick up

00:15:27.580 these, these firearms. And there's also the element of, of sellers. Do you guys get into that at all?

00:15:34.260 I, I personally interviewed a gun seller, wonderful lady, mom of like five kids up in Prince George.

00:15:40.260 She had to shut down her business because she had so many stranded assets sitting on the shelf. Are you

00:15:45.680 guys in contact with the actual retailers too?

00:15:47.780 We are. So many, we have a business member program and so we are in touch with a lot of people and we

00:15:53.860 have longstanding relationships in the retail space as well. But yeah, they, they've had to hold on to

00:16:00.400 all of this property that was, that was banned by, you know, via OIC, Order and Council by Fiat, basically

00:16:08.220 for over half a decade. Now, some people probably were sitting on a hundred thousand dollars worth of

00:16:14.520 inventory. Many businesses use a line of credit to fund their inventory. So you can only imagine

00:16:20.480 the situation that some of these retailers were, were in. And just going back to something you said

00:16:25.780 about the, about the long gun registry costing $2 billion instead of $2 million, you know, that's

00:16:32.140 only a thousand times over. So that's actually a pretty reasonable budget underestimate for the

00:16:37.980 government. But I think, I think one of the most important things for people to remember is this

00:16:42.860 won't cost 750 million, like the government, the highest estimate the government thought it'll

00:16:48.620 probably cost two to $8 billion. And the situation we're in now that's borrowed money. So it will be

00:16:56.260 borrowing two to $8 billion at interest. And again, not to step too much into, into your topic,

00:17:03.000 but I think people forget right now, Canada is paying $4 billion a month, just an interest on

00:17:09.580 the national debt. That's before anything. That's before policing. That's before employment insurance.

00:17:16.160 That's before pension. That's nothing. That's 4 billion a month. So this is just going to add to

00:17:21.580 that, which is even more of a slap in the face to hardworking Canadians.

00:17:25.440 Man after my own heart. Yeah. To put it this way. Okay. What he just said is exactly true. Okay.

00:17:32.700 The interest just on the federal debt. We're not counting the provincial debts. Just the federal

00:17:37.280 government's debt is a billion dollars a week. So picture everybody gathering around on a Saturday

00:17:43.640 night. And instead of watching hockey, we burn down a hospital, build it up brand new. Wait,

00:17:49.200 don't send anybody in yet. Burn it down instead. That's how much we are spending on the interest on

00:17:55.180 the debt. So exactly to your point, Rod, that the federal government is now thinking that we're

00:18:00.620 going to borrow more money to go out and confiscate and compensate these law abiding firearms owners.

00:18:09.220 Now, I know a lot of the viewers of the Candace Malcolm show will be, will have their pal. Okay.

00:18:14.080 They will have firearms licenses, but if you can speak to their brother-in-law and their sisters and

00:18:21.360 people who perhaps aren't in what I would call the gun world, the law abiding gun world,

00:18:26.360 can you explain to them why this is important? Why should non firearms owners, which there are many

00:18:34.240 in Canada care about the fact that tons of people are getting their property seized by the government?

00:18:40.500 It's not so much that they have to care about it. They have to transfer the same set of values that

00:18:47.100 they do for everything else in our society over to people that lawfully own firearms.

00:18:51.940 So in Canada, there's a very strict system that is in place to regulate legal firearms.

00:18:58.560 You need a license. You need to prove competency by taking a course. You need to have extensive

00:19:03.280 background checks. You get a background check every 24 hours. Handguns are registered so the

00:19:08.340 government knows where they are, where they're being stored. You can only shoot them at an approved

00:19:12.240 shooting range. You can't shoot them out in the bush. Same thing with some long guns,

00:19:16.600 like AR-15s, all this stuff is very, very tightly regulated. And I think what a lot of people miss

00:19:22.240 is civilian firearm, private firearm ownership is a feature of free societies where you are not a

00:19:30.720 slave. You are a citizen. You are entrusted with a variety of responsibilities, just like you are

00:19:35.900 entrusted with a driver's license. We do not ban cars. I don't like, there's so many analogies floating

00:19:42.100 around all the time, right? I've heard them all and I've heard them ad nauseum. So it's,

00:19:45.260 you know, but we'll just use this one for now. I'm, I guess I'm talking to myself to not get

00:19:49.860 annoyed with them, but you know, everyone is entrusted with a, with a driver's license and

00:19:55.040 there's no criminal background check required, but yet the odd person drives drunk, wipes an

00:20:00.480 entire family out. And that's, and that's real. But the, the first reaction of the government or

00:20:06.160 the public isn't like, you know, obviously people shouldn't own cars or they should only go to and

00:20:12.000 from specific places with permission of the government. Of course not. They're like, these

00:20:15.740 people broke the rules, throw them in jail, give them a lifetime, uh, driving ban. When there was

00:20:21.860 a van attack in Toronto and the, if the van attack was a multiple victim public shooting of which we've

00:20:28.560 had very few in Canadian history, thank God, you know, you would think that, um, that people would

00:20:35.220 be up in arms. Like, why can you take $80 down to the van rental place with just a driver's license

00:20:41.260 and drive away with a van? Nobody said that ever. Nobody even, it never even crossed anyone's mind

00:20:47.380 to increase the restrictions on renting vans. But for some reason it's guns. And the reason for that is

00:20:54.460 not everyone sees value in firearms. So if I were to, to, to forward one important message,

00:21:00.200 firearms are incredibly important to the people that, that own them. You can have firearms in

00:21:05.560 Canada for hunting, sports shooting, collecting. You can pass them down. There are a variety of

00:21:10.720 different things. And Canadian gun culture is a beneficial, super positive culture. So people

00:21:17.440 sports shoot with these guns, hunting is a way of life. And then it's people that are like, well,

00:21:22.680 it's a hobby and it's not. And I'll tell you why, because these are not, you know, if you think of

00:21:28.380 a golf club as a hobby, but at the worst moment in your life, when no one's there to help you,

00:21:34.220 this tool, this sport shooting or hunting tool can save your life. So this makes them extremely,

00:21:40.780 extremely valuable property people. So we are qualified to own them. We are tightly regulated,

00:21:47.100 right? All the people get criminal record checks every day. There's, we have storage requirements.

00:21:52.460 These are laws. We have transportation requirements and licensed gun owners do not represent a

00:21:57.600 disproportionate risk to public safety. And then the other side, sorry for going on,

00:22:01.200 but this is important. And it takes more than a couple of soundbites to explain it.

00:22:05.120 When you're talking about bans or further restrictions or buybacks as were confiscation

00:22:09.640 programs, you're not just taking guns from people that didn't do anything to deserve it.

00:22:14.400 You're destroying the shooting clubs. You're running up the national debt. You're destroying a culture that

00:22:20.880 is older than Canada itself. And that represents billions in real estate and billions in property

00:22:27.280 improvements and taking away the central hub, the community hub in a community that that's at least

00:22:34.320 2.5 million people strong. So there's a, there are many moving parts. It's not so it's, it's not a

00:22:40.480 simple situation and it is devastating to the people that again, haven't done anything to deserve it.

00:22:45.680 It's bad policy. Amen. I have a few more questions I want to get into here. And some of them are kind

00:22:51.760 of specific. So bear with me audience. Can you explain in the best of your ability, what kinds of

00:22:59.440 firearms the current federal liberal government is trying to ban? Because I want to stress, this may

00:23:05.840 sound silly for those of us who understand firearms culture. So folks just bear with me. In Canada,

00:23:13.120 the machine gun that you will see on like a Rambo movie or something where the person just holds

00:23:20.000 down the trigger and sprays bullets, those have been big time illegal since before I was born.

00:23:26.240 Okay. In the early seventies. So the full auto thing, like that, that is not accepted in Canada.

00:23:34.720 Those are not what the government is banning. When people say, oh, they're banning semi-automatics.

00:23:41.840 Okay. What a semi-automatic means in normal people talk is if you've got your firearm up, it's squeeze,

00:23:49.520 bang, squeeze, bang. You have to pull the trigger every time. There's no holding your finger down

00:23:56.720 and spraying rounds at people. So like, this is where I do think there's a big education gap

00:24:02.880 between the folks who understand normal, safe, law-abiding firearms ownerships with all of our

00:24:09.680 trigger locks and our gun safes and all of our background checks. Okay. When you go even just

00:24:14.480 for your regular PAL. Okay. Your regular, you know, non-restricted, if you want to own a rifle or a

00:24:19.920 shotgun, they phone your ex-boyfriends and girlfriends. Okay. Like they do a really

00:24:26.080 thorough background check to make sure things are all in the up and up. So all that said,

00:24:31.040 can you please describe for people what kinds and styles, I think is the better term of firearms,

00:24:38.240 the federal government is trying to confiscate?

00:24:40.560 So the most important thing is assault weapons don't, they don't exist in Canada. The only people

00:24:46.000 that have assault weapons, as you're describing full autos, right? Hold, hold the trigger and the

00:24:51.200 firearm continues to discharge bullets, right? Those, uh, it was actually the late seventies that

00:24:57.120 those were banned. And it was a long time ago. We definitely agree on that. And the only people that

00:25:04.160 have those are movie armorers and museums basically, and the police and the military, of course. And then a

00:25:09.440 handful of people that had a specific status, like I, even, even me, I'm, I'm too young to have gotten

00:25:17.120 a prohibited firearms license. So really important. I, I, I have so much experience with the legacy

00:25:26.560 media in Canada, um, showing stories about the so-called buyback and the bill C-71 and bill C-21 and

00:25:34.960 all these different, all this different legislation and orders in council. And then while they're talking

00:25:39.280 about these measures, they show full autos in the United States being, being discharged. Like when you

00:25:45.680 say education gap, it truly is propaganda. And of course it's wildly frustrating. So these guns that are,

00:25:51.520 that are being banned are a wide variety of guns. So you have regular semi-autos that look like machine

00:25:56.960 guns, but just, just aren't. And these are guns that have been tested by the RCMP to make sure that they

00:26:03.120 couldn't be easily converted to full autos. Okay. These are tried and true guns that we've had for

00:26:08.320 decades upon decades in Canada. Then, um, hunting rifles and target shooting rifles that are too

00:26:14.880 powerful. So they say over 10,000 jewels. Um, but basically you look and they're like, you know,

00:26:20.560 big game African hunting rifles. So there's a wide variety of different firearms that fall under their

00:26:26.720 assault style, um, you know, ban. And some of them are even single shot rifles, many bolt actions.

00:26:34.080 There are all, even some shotguns are too dangerous to own. So it is, they continue to call them assault

00:26:40.560 weapons and they even can, they tried to call them assault style weapons. Like anyway, I don't know if

00:26:47.280 any, a lot of people bought into that, but there, there are no assault weapons in Canada. So these are

00:26:52.720 firearms that are held by people like me that I use for target shooting or training or recreational

00:26:58.480 shooting or what have you. And, um, yeah, it's, it is an absolute mess and it's, it's,

00:27:03.920 it's government overreach in the extreme. Some of it, I'm glad you described it with

00:27:08.320 the mainstream media. That's why I belabored the point of like, this is, this is not, you know,

00:27:13.040 I love me a Stallone flick, but this is not a Stallone flick that's happening here in Canada,

00:27:18.320 not from law abiding firearms owners. Anyway. Um, I wanted to get into exactly what you guys are

00:27:23.360 fighting and what you guys are proposing. Cause you mentioned the old, you know, I would say,

00:27:28.560 you know, more restricted firearms licenses in some cases, uh, way back in the day, again,

00:27:35.680 before I was born, thank you. Um, there were some of those firearms that were then grandfathered in.

00:27:41.760 Okay. Are, is that what your organization is looking at with some of these versions of the

00:27:48.320 firearms, which are mostly cosmetic? I will point out like they're, they're finding ones that have

00:27:53.040 like the removable, you know, stock, so you can shorten it, which a lot of women use by the way,

00:27:57.760 cause it makes it easier for shorter arms. Right. Um, they're removing, uh, taking away the guns that

00:28:02.960 are, you know, painted black. Okay. But the, the wood grain version is okay. Like a lot of this is

00:28:08.160 cosmetic. So what is the CCFR doing as far as negotiating with the federal government? Are,

00:28:15.760 are you guys looking at like a grandfathering in to try to get the government to back off on this?

00:28:22.160 Well, the government is marching forward with their buyback and we have information that they,

00:28:26.480 they are. And I, we really, we released a video, uh, I don't know, about a week and a half ago.

00:28:33.280 And basically where the situation that gun owners are in is we've been fighting this,

00:28:38.640 since May 1st, 2020, we sued the government in the largest lawsuit in the history

00:28:44.000 of Canada for, on behalf of gun owners. Uh, we took the government to federal court.

00:28:48.720 We cross-examined every witness. We fought every intervener. We filed three injunctions.

00:28:54.720 We went toe to toe and put $3 million into that. That's never been possible for gun owners before.

00:29:00.480 So that's great. We lost. We went to the court of appeal. We fought them again. We lost again,

00:29:05.760 and we are still fighting it because we've, uh, made an application to go to the Supreme Court of

00:29:10.160 Canada. So we'll see whether or not that's accepted. So we're continuing to fight this

00:29:13.920 to have it completely repealed, but I don't know. I don't want to be too cynical. I just,

00:29:20.640 the courts are a funny bunch. Let's, uh, let's just put it, uh, put it that way. We also participated at

00:29:26.800 an unprecedented level in the last election. The last election was for everything. Yeah.

00:29:33.680 If the conservative conservatives would have won, all of this would have been being unwound as we

00:29:39.360 speak. So unfortunately the, uh, CCF are still alone, but we were actually the fifth largest

00:29:46.080 third-party advertiser in the entire country, including unions and, you know, all the rest of

00:29:50.960 that stuff. So we took a real swing at them during the election. Now they're moving forward

00:29:54.960 with their buyback because they won again. I wish more people had jumped in, um, not to be too

00:30:00.880 self-serving, but more people had jumped in during the election. Maybe we wouldn't be having this

00:30:05.120 conversation, but as a last ditch effort to total confiscation over the span of one year,

00:30:11.040 we said, Hey government, there's an opportunity for you not to spend all this money for you to

00:30:16.000 leave all the good people alone, right? Maybe divert that money into dealing with firearm-related

00:30:20.800 violence, which has never been higher by issuing grandfathering. Now grandfathering means that,

00:30:26.560 uh, gun owners that have these types of firearms can continue to own them. No new

00:30:30.640 ones can come into the country and that we could buy and sell between us. So we could move these

00:30:35.040 firearms around with people who have the same license status. So that would cost the government

00:30:39.760 nothing. Taxpayers would save a unimaginable amount of money. Gun owners could be not victimized,

00:30:47.840 at least at, at the extent that they would for, with immediate confiscation, which is what the

00:30:51.840 government is rolling out. And then that's also to us, the most important delay tactic. We need to

00:30:57.920 keep physical possession of these firearms so that there's something to roll back. Should there be

00:31:03.840 another election sitting around waiting for total confiscation is not an option. A lot of people love

00:31:11.200 that and people love to do nothing because it's the easiest thing to do. So if you sit around and do

00:31:15.600 nothing, you're going to get nothing. So I guess we'll see what happens. That's why we rolled out a

00:31:20.640 suggestion of grandfathering and grandfathering has now been rejected. They want to go forward with their

00:31:25.440 multi-billion dollar program to take guns from me whilst people get shot in the street with illegal

00:31:31.360 guns. To that point, so they've officially rejected your offer of grandfathering? Well,

00:31:38.400 we got a notification from the prime minister's office. We read your document very carefully.

00:31:43.120 I'm sure they read it very carefully. It was a six page document, so I don't know how much effort that

00:31:49.040 would require. They forwarded it to the minister of public safety, which we had sent it to anyway.

00:31:55.520 We sent it to every liberal MP. We sent it to every liberal staffer that we had information for,

00:32:01.440 of course, the prime minister and all the cabinet ministers that mattered. But they know how to do

00:32:06.720 this. They've done grandfathering before. So in a way, it's good and bad, right? For them to turn away

00:32:14.240 from that shows they only want to take firearms from licensed gun owners. They are not concerned

00:32:22.240 about criminals that are shooting houses and drive-by shootings and all the rest of them

00:32:26.960 kicking doors in. They're not concerned about that. Only licensed gun owners. So I don't want to

00:32:31.920 fall down the rabbit hole, but think about that for a second. They're willing to spend billions of

00:32:36.800 dollars in deficit spending. They're willing to make people like me absolutely furious, like turn their

00:32:43.280 lives upside down. And when they have a viable alternative. But no, they're going to go forward

00:32:51.200 with it. So there's a lot going on with this. And I don't want to get too inflammatory about it,

00:32:56.160 but I think people should just think about that and see where this government is going.

00:33:00.880 We are going to be speaking with a spokesperson for the Toronto Police Association, who I will point out

00:33:06.160 as a group are being brave by speaking up about this. Usually police are hesitant to wade into things

00:33:13.120 like this. They're pretty stoic in my experience, but they're actually speaking up. Basically to

00:33:19.520 to summarize what they're saying is, hey, it's not the sport shooters and the hunters and the law

00:33:24.480 abiding firearms owners that we're having trouble with here on the streets of Toronto.

00:33:28.160 It's the gangbangers with the illegal guns, which are often smuggled across the border. I know that is

00:33:34.560 no surprise to any rational person who's listening right now. But it's really important, I think,

00:33:40.000 to have a respected law enforcement organization like the Toronto Police Association speak up

00:33:46.880 on an issue like this. Are you hearing from other police officer groups saying, hey,

00:33:52.160 yeah, we have a gun problem in Canada, but it's not with the duck hunters?

00:33:56.560 Yeah, of course. I mean, even the National Police Federation had put out a statement. That's the union

00:34:02.400 that represents all of the frontline police officers of the RCMP, which is one, I think,

00:34:07.200 one of the biggest police agencies on the planet because the national force, obviously. But even

00:34:12.480 there, these are frontline people. These are the people that have to deal with people wielding

00:34:17.840 firearms in a criminal manner. And even they are like, just leave the license gun owners alone.

00:34:24.800 But the government isn't listening to police. They only listen to police when the police are saying

00:34:29.920 something that works for them. When the police are saying something that goes against their politics or

00:34:34.720 their ideological pursuits, then it's like, well, we don't listen to police. So, you know, good for

00:34:40.080 Toronto Police for standing up, good for the National Police Federation and the countless other police

00:34:45.440 forces. Although there are some that have signed agreements with the federal government for money,

00:34:51.760 for funding to roll out this confiscation program, Winnipeg Police being one of them. And I think there's one

00:34:57.840 in Eastern Canada as well. I think the OPP are looking at it too. I guess we'll see. But you got to

00:35:03.200 wonder what's going on with these police forces that are signing on to this. It is, it's pretty monstrous.

00:35:10.720 It's for the record, Alberta Premier Daniel Smith has instructed,

00:35:15.200 saying her province isn't going to be putting taxpayers' money into this.

00:35:18.880 So that was nice to hear. Rod, that's all the time we have. Where can people find your work? If they

00:35:25.440 want to tune into your show, if they want to jump on board the advocacy train, if they want to speak

00:35:30.400 up for law-abiding firearms owners, because you may not own a firearm today, it may not affect you today,

00:35:36.160 but it could be your gas-powered car next week, okay, if we let this go through. Rod, where can people

00:35:42.160 find your work? Well, of course, they can go to CCFR.ca. You can also see our podcast, the CCFR

00:35:49.040 radio podcast on YouTube and all the other social media platforms. We also have a nationally broadcast

00:35:53.840 television show on Wild TV going into our fifth season called CCFR radio on the air. So you can

00:35:59.200 find us through all that and the socials. Rod, thank you so much for joining us today.

00:36:04.640 I appreciate it. Thanks, Chris. Good luck. Once again, that is Rod Giltaka. He is with the

00:36:10.240 Canadian Coalition for Firearms Rights, the CCFR. You've probably seen their big logos. It's kind

00:36:16.720 of like half of a maple leaf and half of a long gun on the other side. Again, they are an advocacy

00:36:22.160 organization that are fighting for the rights of legal law-abiding firearms owners. The Canadian

00:36:28.160 Taxpayers Federation, we are also in this fight from, of course, the financial angle, because as he

00:36:34.480 pointed out with the debt, we do not have the money to spend on things like this, okay? We

00:36:40.000 cannot afford to be paying for a huge amount of compensation for the confiscation of firearms.

00:36:46.800 And we also can't be affording how much it is going to cost. Just imagine how much this is going

00:36:53.360 to cost police, police to do this. Imagine them having to go door to door, all of these man hours,

00:37:01.680 door to door, to legal law-abiding firearms owners saying, knock, knock, who's there? The police,

00:37:06.960 we're here to confiscate your property. Or even if people are safely coming up to the police station

00:37:12.880 saying, here, I'm here to, you know, allow the state to take away my property. I've got it in the car.

00:37:20.240 You have no idea how many hours and hours and hours of police time that accrues. Now multiply that by

00:37:28.160 however many thousands and thousands and thousands of people are going to be stuck in that situation.

00:37:33.520 And we have un-money. To exactly what Rod was talking about, okay? This is not trying to combat

00:37:41.200 the actual street-level gang crime that people are seeing with handguns, which are illegally brought

00:37:48.800 over often from across the border in the United States. We hear time and time again from police

00:37:54.560 organizations saying, um, yeah, we have a gun problem. But we don't have a gun problem with the normal

00:38:00.880 law-abiding firearms owners who are out there as sport shooters and hunters. How much of a problem

00:38:08.320 is this? Who is speaking up on this on behalf of the police? Let's find out. Joining me now is Clayton

00:38:15.200 Campbell. He is the president of the Toronto Police Association. Basically what that is, is the union

00:38:21.920 representing the frontline guys and gals in blue on the streets of Toronto who work as police officers.

00:38:28.800 So sir, Mr. Campbell, thank you so much for joining the show today. I know it really matters when

00:38:34.640 associations like yours speak up on this stuff. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me. And it's great

00:38:39.760 to speak to an audience outside of Ontario. So thanks for the invitation. We really appreciate it. Now,

00:38:46.080 the reason why we invited you on the show is because I saw your statement posted on X and we can probably

00:38:52.560 pull it up here just to kind of summarize. You're basically saying here, if I put on my glasses,

00:38:58.480 in the city of Toronto, which is the focal point for a lot of the conversation around gun violence,

00:39:03.920 it will have little to zero impact on firearm crime. We're seeing in the city. It is a small

00:39:10.160 number of gangs or organized crime members involved in firearm violence in the city, and it is not legal

00:39:17.840 gun owners. Now, of course you're referencing there, the so-called buyback program that is being

00:39:23.120 rolled out by the federal government. As a law abiding firearms owner, I would describe it more

00:39:28.160 as a confiscation rollout. But for argument's sake, let's call it the buyback. Why did you feel it was

00:39:34.880 important to speak up against this form of the buyback? Yeah. I mean, since I've taken this role and

00:39:42.960 you mentioned, I'm so fortunate I get to represent about 8,600 members. They're police officers,

00:39:48.160 special constables, dispatchers, IT people all across the great men and women that keep Toronto

00:39:55.200 safe each and every day. And the firearm issue in the city of Toronto is really the focal point

00:40:01.680 when it comes across all of Canada. And so it's important to talk about the things that actually

00:40:06.880 work and the things that don't work. And what we find in the city of Toronto is that last year,

00:40:12.400 our great men and women seized about 700 illegal guns in the city. About 90% of those were sourced

00:40:20.800 to the United States illegally from the United States. The other 10% were probably from the US,

00:40:26.720 but very difficult to source everything if you're a gun owner, serial numbers scratched off,

00:40:32.400 things of that sort. So what we found, it is not legal gun owners. It's certainly not hunters or

00:40:38.320 target shooters. They're involved in crimes in the city of Toronto. It's a small number of thugs,

00:40:44.560 criminal gangs, organized crime that are involved in terrorizing our great city. And really, we thought

00:40:52.800 that that's a waste of resources to spend that amount of money on this gun buyback program. And we

00:40:57.920 can think of many ways it could be spent that would actually keep the city of Toronto safe.

00:41:02.800 You know, as a firearms owner, and I've got law enforcement in my family, I'm just trying to

00:41:08.720 picture what that would look like. Trying to get Toronto police or any other police team,

00:41:15.760 trying to confiscate the otherwise legal property of law abiding gun owners. Just, you know, the man

00:41:23.280 hours or the people hours involved in this of, you know, would you have to go door to door?

00:41:30.160 It'd be tough, right? I mean, these are a lot of the times they're unrestricted firearms. So we don't,

00:41:35.520 we don't know where they are. And really just a waste of resources, in my opinion. In the city of

00:41:41.520 Toronto, we've seen luckily an increase of investment in public safety. Well, we've seen

00:41:46.320 the city of Toronto and our police services board, that's the employer for all of our members,

00:41:51.120 start to reinvest in the city of Toronto and in public safety, after many years of defunding the

00:41:57.440 police. So we're starting to head it in the right direction. But we're not there yet. We still take a

00:42:02.400 long time to get the radio calls. We're still short staffed in many areas of the service. So it would

00:42:07.600 really be a ridiculous use of resources. And what we really need to focus on in the city,

00:42:14.160 and I think the federal government does, is on the legal use of firearms by bad guys,

00:42:21.040 not law abiding citizens. And I think a lot of the time, it's just a lack of understanding

00:42:26.320 from people that maybe don't possess firearms. They hear something like, we're going to ban guns. And

00:42:32.240 someone that doesn't have any interaction with guns, would think, okay, then just no one's going

00:42:37.040 to have guns, and no one's going to get shot. The reality of it is, only the bad guys don't follow

00:42:41.360 the rules. And what you're going to be doing is really punishing law abiding citizens, instead of

00:42:45.200 focusing on the bad guys, they're causing the violence in our city. Yeah, it's not typically the

00:42:51.360 criminals who are getting the government bat signal saying, Oh, what I'm doing is illegal. Let me go turn

00:42:56.240 in my legal guns anyway. Well, yeah, exactly. They're already in possession of an illegal gun.

00:43:02.160 I can't think of a time when a legal gun in the city has been used in a crime. I can't think of one.

00:43:07.040 We have hundreds of shootings in this city. We're a large city. We just had an eight-year-old,

00:43:13.120 it was just a horrible story, shot and killed while he was sleeping in his bed, eight years old. So sad.

00:43:20.720 And I know when our investigators identify and arrest who was involved in that,

00:43:24.800 this is not some legal gun owner. It certainly isn't somebody target practicing at one o'clock

00:43:29.840 in the morning in a park. These are going to be thugs. These are going to be gang members involved

00:43:34.960 in illegal use of firearms, not legal firearm owners. That was just a terrible story. It's just

00:43:40.800 like your worst nightmare as a parent, right? You put your child to bed. It's hard to even really

00:43:44.880 articulate. To your point, I'm just going to go out on a limb here. You mentioned the person likely

00:43:51.760 responsible. It's also likely that they're already known to police, right? It's also likely that that

00:43:57.520 person already has a rap sheet. And frankly, you know, as a taxpayer, a lot of people forget,

00:44:04.000 we already have a lot of these resources there. Like the laws are supposed to be on the books. The bad

00:44:09.200 guys are supposed to stay away from the good guys. Can you expand on that a little bit? Like what would

00:44:15.440 actually help the frontline police keep people more safe in places like Toronto and not have something

00:44:22.720 like this cumbersome government heavy buyback program against law abiding normal firearms owners?

00:44:30.080 What tools do you guys need? You know, it's pretty basic stuff. It is we need changes to the criminal

00:44:37.520 code to keep repeat violent offenders in custody. And we're not talking about people involved in a theft or

00:44:44.080 people involved in making a mistake as a youth or something like that. We're talking about gang

00:44:48.400 members involved in violent carjackings, firearm offenses, home invasions, murders, shootings.

00:44:55.280 They need to be kept in custody and they need to be punished. They need to be kept in jail.

00:45:00.000 And one thing I've said many times to the media is that I can guarantee you one thing. If that gang

00:45:06.160 member involved in that illegal firearm offense was in custody, they wouldn't have shot that second

00:45:11.280 person. And I think we need to really put victims first. We need to focus on those bad guys.

00:45:16.560 And there needs to be some minor changes, really small changes to the criminal code to keep them

00:45:20.640 in custody. We lobbied for, I've been at the police union for seven years. We lobbied the previous

00:45:28.080 Liberal government every single year. And all we saw was changes that actually made it harder to keep

00:45:34.720 bad guys in custody. An election has been held. We have a different, could be a different Liberal

00:45:40.400 government. So we're going to see what they do as far as bail. But we need some minor changes to

00:45:46.320 the criminal code. We're very lucky in Ontario. We have a super supportive provincial government,

00:45:51.360 a conservative government led by Premier Doug Ford, who is very supportive of public safety

00:45:56.480 and our members. And we're hoping in the fall, we'll see some changes to the criminal code to keep

00:46:02.480 these thugs in jail. I have to stress as a spokesperson for the Taxpayers Federation, I need to repeat,

00:46:09.440 all of this money is being spent anyway, like the police are being paid, you know, the prisons are

00:46:14.400 being run, all of this stuff is already on the books, it's all at taxpayers expense. But the cost

00:46:19.600 of the time of the rotating in and out and in and out and in and out, and having the same group of

00:46:25.520 people, in some cases, just a small handful of people causing 1000s of crimes over and over again,

00:46:33.360 is a huge strain on the public purse. And this whole buyback program thing, we've had experts

00:46:39.920 speaking from even universities, guesstimating that this is going to cost more than a billion dollars

00:46:45.520 with a B. And again, to your point, you're going to have you're going to have police officers being

00:46:50.240 tasked maybe going door to door. And I just have this picture in my head, even if they don't have to

00:46:54.720 go door to door, say you have a law abiding firearms owner, show up at the police station,

00:47:00.640 walk into the foyer saying, Hey, guys, I have something in my trunk, like the amount of paperwork

00:47:06.240 that that would incur, correct? Yeah. And I mean, I, we support, and you look in city of Toronto,

00:47:13.440 our mayor is in it from the NDP party, we have a federal liberal party, we have the conservative

00:47:20.720 provincial party, we work with anybody, we base our arguments on truth and evidence. And we know

00:47:28.240 that the gun buyback program is going to have essentially zero impact on the crime in Toronto.

00:47:33.520 There's lots of better ways that we can invest taxpayers money. Clearly, there's a problem at

00:47:39.040 the border when we're seeing 90% of the illegal firearm seized source to the US, clearly a problem

00:47:45.440 there. And we can definitely use the resources to hunt down these, these criminals, check on those

00:47:52.400 that are in bail. And like you mentioned, it's a revolving door in and out of custody, it's the

00:47:58.320 same individuals, and it's very expensive to continue to arrest them. The legal costs behind

00:48:03.840 it, the court costs behind it, you know, it's simple, if you shoot an illegal firearm in the streets

00:48:08.320 of Toronto, just put them in jail. We don't need that in the city of Toronto, and just leave the legal gun

00:48:14.080 owners alone and put the bad guys in jail. That's really our message. Yeah.

00:48:18.000 Lastly, and I don't want you to have to get too political on this or speculate, but we have heard

00:48:23.680 Prime Minister Mark Carney in his own words, describe himself as a pragmatist. As a long time political

00:48:30.160 analyst, I've been in the game for a long time. It's frankly easy for the new person to say, you know

00:48:34.800 what, that was the previous guy's plan. That was the previous government, I'm coming in fresh,

00:48:39.760 I'm the pragmatist, I'm going to drop this, this and this. Are you hopeful that this could be dropped,

00:48:46.640 that they could start focusing more on keeping bad guys in jail, on strengthening the border, reducing

00:48:52.800 the amount of illegal guns coming across the border and flooding places like Toronto? Are you, are you

00:48:57.600 hopeful? Well, we try, right? We took an unprecedented step. We did support the federal conservatives in the

00:49:04.160 last election. It was purely around their public safety platform. They've been talking about bail

00:49:09.680 reform for a long time and we were very supportive of it. I'll say we at least heard in the throne

00:49:16.400 speech conversation around bail. So my job is to advocate on behalf of the members that I represent

00:49:24.080 and also really the citizens of Toronto to make sure they're safe. So we're speaking with conservative

00:49:29.360 MPs and liberal MPs right now. We had a meeting yesterday with a conservative MP talking about

00:49:34.400 some changes to the criminal code. We're going to be meeting with Sean Frazier, the Minister of Justice.

00:49:40.480 So we have to continue to advocate whoever is in power to try and bring forward some reforms that

00:49:46.320 are going to keep the citizens safe. And a gun buy back program isn't going to do that. And we can,

00:49:51.920 like I said, think of many areas we'd rather redirect those funds to actually keep the citizens of

00:49:58.080 Toronto safe. I know we're out of time and I know that many of our viewers are really happy to hear

00:50:03.680 what you're saying here. Is there any way for them to support what you're saying or to spread

00:50:08.880 that message to make sure that their elected officials hear what you're saying? Yeah, I mean,

00:50:13.680 we live in a democracy, right? So we can hold the politicians accountable, let them know

00:50:19.600 really what they're believing in. And I think one of the challenges is a lack of understanding for

00:50:24.320 people that are not involved in firearms, not involved in law enforcement. And when they hear,

00:50:30.160 like I mentioned earlier, we're just going to ban guns, they think, okay, then we're going to have

00:50:35.120 no guns. It's really the reality of it is that it's the criminals that are already in possession

00:50:41.120 of illegal guns when they don't have a license. So I think it's really important to educate

00:50:47.120 everybody. You know, look, most people living in an urban environment in the City of Toronto

00:50:51.120 have never shot a gun or been a hunter or a target shot. So we can't really blame them for

00:50:55.760 not understanding. So I think there needs to be an education piece. And that's what I'm trying to do

00:51:00.400 based on evidence and things that are actually going to work in listening to the over 8,000 members

00:51:05.600 that are out there every day keeping the citizens of Toronto safe. Clayton Campbell, President of the

00:51:11.760 Toronto Police Association, representing the frontline police officers and peace officers there in Toronto.

00:51:17.760 Thank you so much for your time today. You're welcome. Thanks again for having me.

00:51:21.920 You bet. Once again, you just heard it from him. That was a really important interview.

00:51:27.040 So I have some homework for folks. Can you please share this story? Share this video. It's not often,

00:51:33.920 okay, speaking from experience as a longtime court reporter, it's not often that you hear representatives

00:51:40.400 of the police speak up on something like this, because they're just there to do their job. They're

00:51:46.000 there to follow their orders. They're there to enforce the law. It takes a lot for them to say,

00:51:51.040 you know what, this is really not working here, folks. We need to make some changes here. And you just

00:51:56.880 heard directly from a spokesperson who represents, you know, a huge number of police officers on Canada's,

00:52:04.640 the streets of Canada's biggest city, that we do have a gun problem in Canada, but it is illegal guns

00:52:11.760 coming from the United States. And that if we're going to spend taxpayers' money fixing what is

00:52:17.600 actually the gun problem, it shouldn't be going after confiscating normal law-abiding firearms

00:52:23.760 owners' property. We should direct those resources into actual street-level crime prevention,

00:52:30.400 and thickening that border to make sure that guns like these are not coming into the country

00:52:36.000 in the first place. So it's really important for you right now to head over to Juneau News,

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The Candice Malcolm Show - August 20, 2025

Carney doubles down on Trudeau-era gun grab

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