The Candice Malcolm Show - May 22, 2025


Carney’s own words come back to HAUNT him, room goes DEAD SILENT when reporter asks this question


Episode Stats

Length

21 minutes

Words per Minute

189.61615

Word Count

4,133

Sentence Count

263

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary

Brett Wilson is an investment banker, entrepreneur, and philanthropist best known for his role on CBC's The Dragon Dunn and as host of the show Risky Business on Slice. Brett also hosts the podcast "Risky Business" and has been a long-time friend of Candice and her husband, Andrew Lawton. In this episode, Brett talks about his time working with Mark Carney on his campaign and what it was like pitching to voters.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is the Candice Malcolm Show. We have a great episode for you
00:00:05.700 today. And before we jump into it, I want to say a quick congratulations to my friend and
00:00:10.220 former colleague, Andrew Lawton. Andrew was sworn in as a member of parliament yesterday. So here
00:00:15.940 is what that looked like. He writes this on X. He says it was an honor of a lifetime to be formally
00:00:20.200 sworn in as a member of parliament for Elgin St. Thomas, London South this morning. It's the people
00:00:25.000 of my writing who sent me here, and it's them I am committed to serving. So, you know, Andrew was
00:00:30.800 a longtime journalist with me at True North, and we are very proud of him. There you can see pictures
00:00:36.440 of him getting his fortnight with his beautiful wife, Jen, as well. So congratulations, Andrew.
00:00:40.380 We're really looking forward to seeing what you're going to do in Ottawa. Give them hell, man, and hold
00:00:45.160 them accountable. Okay, now to get to the topic of the show today, I'm very pleased to be joined by
00:00:50.040 one of my favorite guests here on the Candice Malcolm Show, talking about Brett Wilson. Brett
00:00:53.460 is an investment banker, entrepreneur, and philanthropist. You know him best from his
00:00:57.140 role on CBC's The Dragon Dunn. He also hosted Risky Business on Slice. Brett, thank you for
00:01:02.700 joining us. Welcome to the show. Always a pleasure. Okay, I want to talk. It's been a while since I've
00:01:07.580 had you on. I guess we had you on right at the end of the election here. So I guess first question
00:01:11.340 for you is, what did you make of the election? What did you think? Were you surprised? Were you
00:01:16.100 happy? Tell us what your thoughts are. Well, for sure I was surprised, and second, I was disappointed.
00:01:22.260 Um, I mean, I'm a, I'm a fan of Mark Carney, the person, but the party he's with is the same party
00:01:29.600 that supported Trudeau mucking up our country for a decade. And so I think my concern is that people
00:01:37.620 thought that Mark Carney represents a different party. No, he represents the same party. Now,
00:01:44.380 is he speaking a different tune? I mean, Pierre Paulette has with a smile said, he's using my
00:01:50.300 campaign and, uh, and, and winning votes. And so I think that's a big part of what Mark did was
00:01:56.460 say to the world, I will move the world forward. I had the privilege, and I may have shared this with
00:02:02.340 you once before. I had the privilege of having lunch with Mark, uh, in my own offices about a week
00:02:07.640 before he became leader of the liberal party. And we sat down to talk about three things and I had
00:02:13.540 even prepared slide decks. So it was a very formal pitch, but he was there for an hour. We ate burgers
00:02:19.360 and, and chips and, uh, and slammed through it very quickly. Uh, but we talked about politics,
00:02:24.700 getting rid of bill C 69, bill C 48. We talked about the need for improving how electricity is managed in
00:02:31.780 Canada. And we also talked about pipelines and the oil and gas industry and Alberta's dream goal plan
00:02:37.960 vision of doubling its production over the next decade or two. So we had a great conversation.
00:02:42.800 But the other thing I said to Mark, when I laid these things out, as I said, this is the same pitch
00:02:47.760 I would give to Pierre Paulette. And if Jagmeet Singh would talk to me, I'd tell him the same thing.
00:02:53.540 And I had the same conversation with Daniel Smith or Scott Moe or, uh, Wob Canoe, all people I know.
00:02:58.980 And I said, so I was basically pitching what's right for Canada, not the politics of what's right
00:03:04.560 for Canada, but the facts, the reality. And how was that received? I mean, I've heard that people
00:03:10.700 like the Daniel Smith, for instance, said that when he was in Alberta, he said one thing when he's out
00:03:14.880 in Quebec, he says something different that he had committed to pipelines, uh, earlier in the campaign
00:03:19.520 and since walked back on them. So I'm just curious, how, how, how was the reception of your pitch
00:03:24.020 to Mark Carney and did he seem receptive? Very receptive. But of course,
00:03:28.980 that's a marketing moment. He was crystal clear. He said, Brett, I can get a pipeline through
00:03:33.320 Quebec. I'm absolutely confident. And we'll talk about Quebec in a moment, but he was, he was,
00:03:38.800 he was very receptive. The only place we disagreed was when I said to him that we shouldn't be calling
00:03:44.420 it coast to coast to coast. It should be coast to coast to border because we have a border and
00:03:50.340 the border is the most important part of all our relationships. He kind of laughed and said,
00:03:54.280 I'm going to stick with coast to coast to coast, but that was the only place where we had, we agreed
00:03:58.820 that we disagreed everything else. He was accommodating, interested, curious, and I can tell
00:04:04.620 you, I'm still in touch with him. And if he walks the talk, we're going to make some progress here.
00:04:13.280 I'm really curious. I'm, I'm apprehensive because when you look at the, the, the membership of his,
00:04:19.400 uh, his, uh, cabinet, you know, just Gibo and just use the one word Gibo. What the hell was he
00:04:27.560 thinking? Letting Gibo step back up. But when I challenged him on Gibo, he said, Brett, please
00:04:33.380 listen to Hodgson. Some say the bubbles in an arrow truffle piece can take 34 seconds to melt in your
00:04:39.660 mouth. Sometimes the very amount you're stuck at the same red light, rich, creamy, chocolatey arrow
00:04:46.060 truffle. Feel the arrow bubbles melt. It's mind bubbling. Okay. In other words, he politely, he
00:04:53.480 didn't say, don't listen to Gibo, but he focused on redirect, stay with Hodgson. That's where the
00:04:59.040 noise, whatever Hodgson's noise is. Hodgson's here in Calgary this week, and I'm working very hard to
00:05:04.740 bring him back for a larger group meeting, uh, at the end of June. And I want him sitting with truly
00:05:10.340 just the, the iconic business leaders of pipelines, midstream, oil and gas, electricity, mining,
00:05:17.900 um, uranium. I got the guys out of Saskatoon Keene to come. I mean, there's so much to talk about at a
00:05:24.280 very high level and Hodgson's Keene. So we'll see what, we'll see whether or not we can actually
00:05:28.820 deliver on a meeting. Then we have to figure out if we can deliver on results. Well, it's interesting
00:05:33.900 because I think a lot of people trusted that Mark Carney was changed, that he did represent some
00:05:38.780 kind of change, that they were departing from the sort of like woke, more extreme liberal party that
00:05:43.400 Justin Trudeau had built. And that Mark Carney was, you know, more pro-business, pro-growth. He
00:05:48.600 understood the economy and that he, he, he was at least, you know, willing to change course, uh, clearly
00:05:54.020 by picking up some of Pierre Polyev's, uh, policies, he, he signaled that. Um, and then yet when we saw that
00:05:59.680 cabinet last week, I mean, it's not just Stéphane Guilbeault, it's also Chrystia Freeland and
00:06:03.760 Melanie Jolie and, uh, Francois Champagne, uh, Philippe Champagne. Like it's the same people,
00:06:09.940 it's the exact same cast of characters that got us into this mess. So it's, it's difficult,
00:06:14.180 I think for Canadians to draw that separation. I think a lot of them feel a little duped and I
00:06:18.620 think others feel duped by this sort of reversal that we've seen from Mark Carney. So recall that during
00:06:23.760 the campaign, Mark Carney told us over and over again that the relationship with the United States
00:06:29.380 as we know it is over. He, he uses terms. He, he played up the fact that Canada is in the midst of a
00:06:35.600 crisis, like, uh, you know, an existential crisis when it comes to our trading relationship with the
00:06:40.420 United States. And then we saw, we saw a different Mark Carney, uh, when he was interacting with
00:06:45.680 President Trump in the Oval Office. Now you could just say that's diplomacy. I want to play this clip
00:06:50.320 for you though, Brett. This is yesterday. Um, Mark Carney was being questioned by Mackenzie Gray,
00:06:55.020 give him credit with the global news. Um, a very solid line of questioning here saying that,
00:07:00.920 look, this is what you said before. You said the relationship is over. You said that, that the
00:07:04.980 trade relationships could be different. And yet, uh, here you are today looking to form a deeper
00:07:09.740 integration. Uh, the, the latest announcement was that Mark Carney wants to work with President
00:07:13.640 Trump in building a so-called golden dome, sort of like the iron dome, a North American missile
00:07:18.700 defense system. And so here is Mark Carney, um, being questions. And I, from my perspective,
00:07:23.600 he just fails to give any kind of a coherent answer. I'll just play that clip.
00:07:27.140 During the election, you're a Republican saying that the old relationship that Canada has with
00:07:30.400 the U S is over. You said that Donald Trump is trying to break us so he can own us. But
00:07:33.500 now just a couple of weeks after the election, there's conversations at least about further
00:07:36.920 integrating the Canadian military with the U S about the golden dome. What do you say to Canadians
00:07:41.020 who voted for you based on your elbows and mentality with the Americans? Well, first, um,
00:07:45.060 one of the reasons why we're having, uh, more constructive, uh, discussions with the Americans
00:07:49.940 is, uh, because, um, we are demonstrating our ability that we have choices. We have choices,
00:07:55.780 uh, economically, we have choices, uh, with respect to, uh, our defense. We are in a position now where
00:08:01.960 we cooperate when necessary, but not necessarily cooperate. Just seems like a bit of a word salad
00:08:07.800 there. What do you think, Brett? He's bumping around, but let's go back to the big picture.
00:08:12.300 I happen to love and admire what Donald Trump is trying to do. I don't love, admire, or respect
00:08:20.120 how he's doing it. But the idea of trying to minimize global wars, optimize his border,
00:08:26.700 minimize fentanyl inbound, get rid of bad people. I mean, there's so many things that he wants to do
00:08:31.980 well, and he's got a very different, um, history. And that's what gives the world some challenges in
00:08:37.640 terms of here's a business negotiator, not a political negotiator. Now, what's interesting
00:08:42.920 is Carney comes out of the business world. And so I think he's respectful of what Trump does when
00:08:49.580 Trump will make a statement and then see how people respond. And then a day later change the statement
00:08:55.240 and go, yeah, but he doesn't feel Trump isn't accountable for changing his mind. And so that's
00:09:00.860 the only place I would dance is to say, I'd rather judge Carney by results, which is, are we going to
00:09:07.000 get some projects underway? Daniel Smith's been absolutely adamant, as has the industry, that a
00:09:11.880 pipeline across West, Western Canada and, and central to Northern BC into, uh, the Kitimat, Prince
00:09:19.040 Rupert regions makes sense. So are we going to get an accelerated approval on a pipeline that was once
00:09:25.720 almost, uh, the pipeline route, everything was approved. So what can we do? And that goes back
00:09:30.120 to results. And, uh, cause all there's so much talk, not as concerned of the talk as I am call
00:09:36.040 it the results. And that's, he's, we're only a month into it now. Let's see what the next two or
00:09:41.260 three months holds. That's true. I want to ask you though, one of the things that we learned last
00:09:45.400 week was that we won't get a budget, uh, that Carney and his new finance minister say that they just
00:09:49.880 don't have time. So we're going to have to wait to the fall. Wondering what your thoughts are on that.
00:09:53.540 Well, let's remember a budget is about being accountable. In other words, here's a forecast
00:09:58.300 for what we're going to spend and where the revenue is going to come from. But let's be
00:10:02.480 clear. They're still spending, they're still generating revenue. So everything's happening,
00:10:06.680 whether you have a budget or not, they're just doing stuff. And that's why they're,
00:10:10.620 they're basically running the country in the absence of a budget, but built on where they were
00:10:16.100 before. And that's one of the dangerous parts, which is, you know, Freeland and Trudeau and their
00:10:21.340 concern for budget balance. We still remember Trudeau saying, well, the budget will balance
00:10:26.160 itself. One of the stupidest comments ever by a political leader of any party, the budget will
00:10:32.020 balance itself. So I think the, I think the party's been a bit disrespectful of the budget process in
00:10:37.800 terms of accountability to Canada, but they're still, they're still running the cost. They're still
00:10:42.960 generating revenue. What they've also said now is that they will do a budget in the fall. The earlier,
00:10:48.540 when I first heard them say, skip the budget, it was kind of like, we'll do one for next year,
00:10:53.520 but we'll just keep working off of old information for this year. But they have said they'll bring out
00:10:57.960 one in the fall. So again, let's, results will be everything. Interesting. I, you know, one of the
00:11:03.440 things about Justin Trudeau's comment when he said it, right, the idea was that he said, well, look,
00:11:06.900 we're going to grow the economy. The economy is going to grow. Taxation will go up. Well, the budget
00:11:10.780 will balance itself. To hear that from somebody who never balanced the budget, who was prime minister for
00:11:14.960 nine years and never even came close to balancing the budget. It's interesting that, yeah, that one
00:11:20.500 line that he said kind of stuck with him because he just never got it done. I want to switch gears.
00:11:25.200 You did mention Danielle Smith. And one of the things that we have been observing and reporting on here
00:11:29.960 at Juneau News since the federal election are changes that are happening in Alberta. Specifically,
00:11:36.300 Danielle Smith changed the Citizens Initiative Act, which she changed the rule to lower the threshold
00:11:42.340 that would prompt a referendum. So you need a certain number of signatures. She lowered that
00:11:46.920 threshold and lengthened the period of time that they needed. So from 20% of voters down to 10%.
00:11:54.740 And I think she extended it to several months, 120 days. What do you make of those changes coming
00:12:00.880 right after the federal election? Do you think that she was signaling something or, you know,
00:12:05.780 she said that they were going to make these changes either way. But I think that the signaling
00:12:09.780 there was pretty alarming. Let's add one more data point to this conversation. And that's the ability
00:12:17.440 to recall a municipal mayor. And the requirement was something like half a million people had to sign
00:12:24.920 the Recall Act. And so it was tabled then that these Recall Reconsideration, Let the Public Have a Say
00:12:31.500 Acts were inappropriate. They were structured terribly. And again, Jody Gondek, there was 100,000 people said,
00:12:39.240 do we want you gone? And she goes, yeah, well, it doesn't matter. You know, we needed 300,000 or 500,000
00:12:44.580 people to vote against. I think all that Danielle's done is allow the separatist movement a voice. I don't
00:12:51.500 think of her as a separatist in any way, shape, or form. And in fact, I was sitting at a dinner the
00:12:57.560 other night with a conversation about separatism and I'm getting pressed and pushed by a few people to
00:13:04.140 play a more profile role in separatism. And I politely say, well, if the separatist movement
00:13:10.440 wants us to separate, is the plan to build a chain link fence 20 feet high or a wall like Trump did
00:13:18.880 down in the border? Or are we just going to build a moat, a 20 foot wide, 10 foot deep moat? And people
00:13:25.920 look at me, that's one of the stupidest things you could ever say. You're right. It is stupid.
00:13:30.940 So let's talk about the difference between separation and improving the deal we have. We're not going to
00:13:37.480 separate. We're not physically separating. Separation simply means a better deal, a different deal. And
00:13:43.540 right now we're working on a better deal, a different deal, whether it's converting equalization
00:13:49.660 or getting a true energy corridor or respect for what it is we're doing as a province. And again, that's
00:13:56.400 uranium, it's mining, it's the north, south, east, west pipelines. There's so many things. And I often
00:14:03.620 now start to push, instead of separation, why don't we focus on what we would call the collaboration
00:14:09.280 movement? Collaboration would be Manitoba, next to Manitoba, something called Saskatchewan,
00:14:16.500 then Alberta and BC. We have two access ports to the north and to the west. We have every resource
00:14:25.280 Canada has. We have in spades, so to speak. And so if the west could collaborate, work cooperatively,
00:14:33.700 I think the rest of Canada, oh, and there's a group of people, a group of provinces in the, on the west
00:14:39.500 called the, oh, the Atlantic provinces. They work as a collaboration. I'm suggesting that the west be more
00:14:47.040 thoughtful about collaboration. And certainly Mo and Smith, I haven't talked to Wob Canoe, but the conversation
00:14:53.340 about the idea of just being more voiceful and more organized, again, collaborating as the west
00:15:01.120 would make Canada better. And we just punt this nonsense about, to be blunt, separation.
00:15:07.460 Interesting. I had Preston Manning, former leader of the, well, founder of the Reform Party,
00:15:11.640 former leader of the opposition. And he, he painted a similar picture where he was calling for an
00:15:16.860 assembly of the west. So Western politicians from provincial legislatures, getting together
00:15:23.420 and talking policy, like having a democratic debate, which he claims it doesn't happen as much
00:15:28.380 with elected officials because it's too partisan, it's too back and forth, but having sort of a
00:15:32.560 collaborative discussion of the best ways to boost the efforts. I thought that was a very interesting
00:15:37.300 way of thinking about it. I'm curious, I had Keane Beckstein, my co-founder at Geno News, on last week,
00:15:41.620 and he said that people in central Canada think that the people behind the separatist movements are a bunch of
00:15:45.940 hillbillies. He's like, but the reality is, he's like, I went to a meeting and there was like a bunch
00:15:50.180 of Ferraris outside and that the people who are pushing this movement are like wealthy bankers and
00:15:54.680 successful business people. And I'm just, I'm just curious if you think that there's any validity to
00:15:58.860 that point. I'd suggest that there's no one profile. There's no rednecks, there's no business leaders.
00:16:04.240 It's just people in Alberta who are, to be blunt, pissed off. And they have every right to be pissed off,
00:16:09.800 every right to be frustrated because 10 years of federal government with absolutely no concern,
00:16:15.380 consideration for the businesses of the West, the economic structures of the West. Again, it's
00:16:21.940 the whole equalization concept. And someone in the East, a friend of mine said, well, you don't write
00:16:27.180 a check to Quebec. You're correct. We don't. But take a look at what Quebec takes from the country.
00:16:33.340 And it's pretty clear that we effectively write a check. So don't tell me that the mechanic matters
00:16:38.600 as to who we write the check for. Money is absorbed from Alberta and the West and our energy and our
00:16:44.840 uranium and all our businesses and industries. And then it's absorbed and given to a province that
00:16:51.120 doesn't have to report hydro revenue, electrical generation. They don't have to report that as part
00:16:58.240 of their assets. Something very, very wrong with this structure. And so we've got every reason to be
00:17:03.400 pissed off. And whether it's a separatist wearing a make a Canada great hat again, or, or what it is,
00:17:10.260 I don't care, but I wouldn't really characterize the, I've got friends who talk separation at every
00:17:16.620 level, whether it's a lawyer, a banker, or the people at the, the coffee shop I hang out at.
00:17:22.640 They're all frustrated. They're all concerned and they have a legitimate frustration, a legitimate
00:17:26.960 concern. I'm simply, and again, I wasn't aware that Preston was talking about the West,
00:17:31.720 but, uh, I've been in several meetings recently where this idea of collaboration has been tabled.
00:17:36.740 And I can tell you, if I had to have a vote, I would have had a hundred people say a hundred percent
00:17:42.500 on side with collaboration and 20 people would have said no separation is more important.
00:17:48.760 So it's a very, it's a very vocal minority. And that's where with Daniel Smith letting,
00:17:54.200 you know, whatever the number is, 170,000 people, um, sign a petition that will trigger
00:18:00.800 a referendum. Let's not forget that the referendum vote doesn't come for a year
00:18:05.140 ish. And we've got a year for Carney, Hudson, and whatever Pierre can do in the background,
00:18:11.460 as well as, you know, Bob Canu and, and Scott Moe and, uh, Daniel Smith and maybe Eby,
00:18:17.580 um, trying to do something better for Canada, in particular the West. But if the West is better,
00:18:23.640 Canada's better.
00:18:24.660 Interesting. Okay. I really want to get your thoughts on this one. So Arlene Dickinson,
00:18:28.160 your former colleague at the Dragon's Den, she's a Canadian businesswoman, a very prominent
00:18:31.920 investor in television personality. She had this to say about Premier Smith. Here is
00:18:36.760 quoting from CTV. She says it's wholly un-Canadian. So let me just read this. It says,
00:18:41.040 last week, Canadian businesswoman Arlene Dickinson posted on social media. She's genuinely stunned
00:18:45.600 by Premier Daniel Smith's actions of Bill 54. That's the one that we're talking about changing the
00:18:49.780 Citizens Initiative Act. She calls the bill wholly un-Canadian. She writes,
00:18:54.980 I'm an Albertan and I share the deep frustrations that Albertans have. I absolutely understand them.
00:18:59.320 But there is a real difference between fighting for fairness and threatening the foundations of
00:19:03.940 our country, Dickinson told CTV News Edmonton. She adds that while she understands how Albertans feel,
00:19:10.100 Smith isn't demonstrating leadership and hoped that she would rise to the occasion. So tell me,
00:19:14.940 Brett, what do you think of that?
00:19:16.420 Well, Candice, my frustration with Arlene, and it's tied in no small way to her close friendship
00:19:26.760 with Jan Arden, illogical, irresponsible, unprofessional, unethical conversation. So if
00:19:34.600 they want to start challenging people who are questioning what's going on in Canada, I mean,
00:19:39.500 all Danielle Smith has said is, I will let those with a voice around separation have a voice. But it
00:19:48.840 doesn't mean she's giving them any control. There's no outcome that's a guarantee. And in fact,
00:19:54.360 what frustrates Albertans and the West is how they're treated by the East. And guess what? Arlene
00:20:00.860 lives down East and she's part of that world. All due respect, she didn't do much for deals,
00:20:05.660 isn't much of a business person. I mean, all due respect, she doesn't do much. And it's a lot of
00:20:13.020 fun to work with on the show. And in fact, she was the person who put my name forward. So I'm
00:20:17.620 respectful of Arlene the Dragon, but not Arlene the business person, and certainly not Jan Arden as a
00:20:24.100 spokesperson for Alberta. It's just nonsense. And I'm just not there. Again, as I keep saying,
00:20:28.900 I'm not a separatist, but the separatist movement is elevating the voice of the debate and the
00:20:34.540 conversation that we're having with a country run by the same party that has made hundreds and
00:20:42.220 hundreds, if not thousands of unethical mistakes running our country. And so we're going to let,
00:20:49.300 no, Carney's being challenged for sure, but let's see what time does for us.
00:20:53.060 Well, thank you so much. It's always a pleasure to have you on the show, Brett. We really appreciate
00:20:56.240 your time and your insights. I hope to have you back again real soon. All right, folks,
00:21:01.360 that's all the time we have for today. Thank you so much for tuning in. We'll be back again
00:21:04.900 tomorrow with all the news. I'm Candace Malcolm. This is The Candace Malcolm Show. Thank you and God
00:21:08.820 bless.
00:21:09.100 You're watching Juno News, Canada's fastest growing independent news network. Our team works day and
00:21:20.020 night to bring you nationwide coverage of the issues that matter. Honest reporting of the stories that
00:21:27.900 put Canadians first. From far and wide, Juno is doing the work to turn the dial in the right
00:21:36.360 direction, bringing you the news from the field and in the studio, wherever it takes us. We get the job done
00:21:45.320 for you, for Canada.