The Candice Malcolm Show - Carney’s own words come back to HAUNT him, room goes DEAD SILENT when reporter asks this question

00:00:00.000 Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is the Candice Malcolm Show. We have a great episode for you

00:00:05.700 today. And before we jump into it, I want to say a quick congratulations to my friend and

00:00:10.220 former colleague, Andrew Lawton. Andrew was sworn in as a member of parliament yesterday. So here

00:00:15.940 is what that looked like. He writes this on X. He says it was an honor of a lifetime to be formally

00:00:20.200 sworn in as a member of parliament for Elgin St. Thomas, London South this morning. It's the people

00:00:25.000 of my writing who sent me here, and it's them I am committed to serving. So, you know, Andrew was

00:00:30.800 a longtime journalist with me at True North, and we are very proud of him. There you can see pictures

00:00:36.440 of him getting his fortnight with his beautiful wife, Jen, as well. So congratulations, Andrew.

00:00:40.380 We're really looking forward to seeing what you're going to do in Ottawa. Give them hell, man, and hold 0.99

00:00:45.160 them accountable. Okay, now to get to the topic of the show today, I'm very pleased to be joined by 0.95

00:00:50.040 one of my favorite guests here on the Candice Malcolm Show, talking about Brett Wilson. Brett

00:00:53.460 is an investment banker, entrepreneur, and philanthropist. You know him best from his

00:00:57.140 role on CBC's The Dragon Dunn. He also hosted Risky Business on Slice. Brett, thank you for

00:01:02.700 joining us. Welcome to the show. Always a pleasure. Okay, I want to talk. It's been a while since I've

00:01:07.580 had you on. I guess we had you on right at the end of the election here. So I guess first question

00:01:11.340 for you is, what did you make of the election? What did you think? Were you surprised? Were you

00:01:16.100 happy? Tell us what your thoughts are. Well, for sure I was surprised, and second, I was disappointed.

00:01:22.260 Um, I mean, I'm a, I'm a fan of Mark Carney, the person, but the party he's with is the same party

00:01:29.600 that supported Trudeau mucking up our country for a decade. And so I think my concern is that people

00:01:37.620 thought that Mark Carney represents a different party. No, he represents the same party. Now,

00:01:44.380 is he speaking a different tune? I mean, Pierre Paulette has with a smile said, he's using my

00:01:50.300 campaign and, uh, and, and winning votes. And so I think that's a big part of what Mark did was

00:01:56.460 say to the world, I will move the world forward. I had the privilege, and I may have shared this with

00:02:02.340 you once before. I had the privilege of having lunch with Mark, uh, in my own offices about a week

00:02:07.640 before he became leader of the liberal party. And we sat down to talk about three things and I had

00:02:13.540 even prepared slide decks. So it was a very formal pitch, but he was there for an hour. We ate burgers

00:02:19.360 and, and chips and, uh, and slammed through it very quickly. Uh, but we talked about politics,

00:02:24.700 getting rid of bill C 69, bill C 48. We talked about the need for improving how electricity is managed in

00:02:31.780 Canada. And we also talked about pipelines and the oil and gas industry and Alberta's dream goal plan

00:02:37.960 vision of doubling its production over the next decade or two. So we had a great conversation.

00:02:42.800 But the other thing I said to Mark, when I laid these things out, as I said, this is the same pitch

00:02:47.760 I would give to Pierre Paulette. And if Jagmeet Singh would talk to me, I'd tell him the same thing.

00:02:53.540 And I had the same conversation with Daniel Smith or Scott Moe or, uh, Wob Canoe, all people I know.

00:02:58.980 And I said, so I was basically pitching what's right for Canada, not the politics of what's right

00:03:04.560 for Canada, but the facts, the reality. And how was that received? I mean, I've heard that people

00:03:10.700 like the Daniel Smith, for instance, said that when he was in Alberta, he said one thing when he's out

00:03:14.880 in Quebec, he says something different that he had committed to pipelines, uh, earlier in the campaign

00:03:19.520 and since walked back on them. So I'm just curious, how, how, how was the reception of your pitch

00:03:24.020 to Mark Carney and did he seem receptive? Very receptive. But of course,

00:03:28.980 that's a marketing moment. He was crystal clear. He said, Brett, I can get a pipeline through

00:03:33.320 Quebec. I'm absolutely confident. And we'll talk about Quebec in a moment, but he was, he was,

00:03:38.800 he was very receptive. The only place we disagreed was when I said to him that we shouldn't be calling

00:03:44.420 it coast to coast to coast. It should be coast to coast to border because we have a border and

00:03:50.340 the border is the most important part of all our relationships. He kind of laughed and said,

00:03:54.280 I'm going to stick with coast to coast to coast, but that was the only place where we had, we agreed

00:03:58.820 that we disagreed everything else. He was accommodating, interested, curious, and I can tell

00:04:04.620 you, I'm still in touch with him. And if he walks the talk, we're going to make some progress here.

00:04:13.280 I'm really curious. I'm, I'm apprehensive because when you look at the, the, the membership of his,

00:04:19.400 uh, his, uh, cabinet, you know, just Gibo and just use the one word Gibo. What the hell was he

00:04:27.560 thinking? Letting Gibo step back up. But when I challenged him on Gibo, he said, Brett, please

00:04:33.380 listen to Hodgson. Some say the bubbles in an arrow truffle piece can take 34 seconds to melt in your

00:04:39.660 mouth. Sometimes the very amount you're stuck at the same red light, rich, creamy, chocolatey arrow

00:04:46.060 truffle. Feel the arrow bubbles melt. It's mind bubbling. Okay. In other words, he politely, he

00:04:53.480 didn't say, don't listen to Gibo, but he focused on redirect, stay with Hodgson. That's where the

00:04:59.040 noise, whatever Hodgson's noise is. Hodgson's here in Calgary this week, and I'm working very hard to

00:05:04.740 bring him back for a larger group meeting, uh, at the end of June. And I want him sitting with truly

00:05:10.340 just the, the iconic business leaders of pipelines, midstream, oil and gas, electricity, mining,

00:05:17.900 um, uranium. I got the guys out of Saskatoon Keene to come. I mean, there's so much to talk about at a

00:05:24.280 very high level and Hodgson's Keene. So we'll see what, we'll see whether or not we can actually

00:05:28.820 deliver on a meeting. Then we have to figure out if we can deliver on results. Well, it's interesting

00:05:33.900 because I think a lot of people trusted that Mark Carney was changed, that he did represent some

00:05:38.780 kind of change, that they were departing from the sort of like woke, more extreme liberal party that

00:05:43.400 Justin Trudeau had built. And that Mark Carney was, you know, more pro-business, pro-growth. He

00:05:48.600 understood the economy and that he, he, he was at least, you know, willing to change course, uh, clearly

00:05:54.020 by picking up some of Pierre Polyev's, uh, policies, he, he signaled that. Um, and then yet when we saw that

00:05:59.680 cabinet last week, I mean, it's not just Stéphane Guilbeault, it's also Chrystia Freeland and

00:06:03.760 Melanie Jolie and, uh, Francois Champagne, uh, Philippe Champagne. Like it's the same people,

00:06:09.940 it's the exact same cast of characters that got us into this mess. So it's, it's difficult,

00:06:14.180 I think for Canadians to draw that separation. I think a lot of them feel a little duped and I

00:06:18.620 think others feel duped by this sort of reversal that we've seen from Mark Carney. So recall that during

00:06:23.760 the campaign, Mark Carney told us over and over again that the relationship with the United States

00:06:29.380 as we know it is over. He, he uses terms. He, he played up the fact that Canada is in the midst of a

00:06:35.600 crisis, like, uh, you know, an existential crisis when it comes to our trading relationship with the

00:06:40.420 United States. And then we saw, we saw a different Mark Carney, uh, when he was interacting with

00:06:45.680 President Trump in the Oval Office. Now you could just say that's diplomacy. I want to play this clip

00:06:50.320 for you though, Brett. This is yesterday. Um, Mark Carney was being questioned by Mackenzie Gray,

00:06:55.020 give him credit with the global news. Um, a very solid line of questioning here saying that,

00:07:00.920 look, this is what you said before. You said the relationship is over. You said that, that the

00:07:04.980 trade relationships could be different. And yet, uh, here you are today looking to form a deeper

00:07:09.740 integration. Uh, the, the latest announcement was that Mark Carney wants to work with President

00:07:13.640 Trump in building a so-called golden dome, sort of like the iron dome, a North American missile

00:07:18.700 defense system. And so here is Mark Carney, um, being questions. And I, from my perspective,

00:07:23.600 he just fails to give any kind of a coherent answer. I'll just play that clip.

00:07:27.140 During the election, you're a Republican saying that the old relationship that Canada has with

00:07:30.400 the U S is over. You said that Donald Trump is trying to break us so he can own us. But

00:07:33.500 now just a couple of weeks after the election, there's conversations at least about further

00:07:36.920 integrating the Canadian military with the U S about the golden dome. What do you say to Canadians

00:07:41.020 who voted for you based on your elbows and mentality with the Americans? Well, first, um,

00:07:45.060 one of the reasons why we're having, uh, more constructive, uh, discussions with the Americans

00:07:49.940 is, uh, because, um, we are demonstrating our ability that we have choices. We have choices,

00:07:55.780 uh, economically, we have choices, uh, with respect to, uh, our defense. We are in a position now where

00:08:01.960 we cooperate when necessary, but not necessarily cooperate. Just seems like a bit of a word salad

00:08:07.800 there. What do you think, Brett? He's bumping around, but let's go back to the big picture.

00:08:12.300 I happen to love and admire what Donald Trump is trying to do. I don't love, admire, or respect

00:08:20.120 how he's doing it. But the idea of trying to minimize global wars, optimize his border,

00:08:26.700 minimize fentanyl inbound, get rid of bad people. I mean, there's so many things that he wants to do

00:08:31.980 well, and he's got a very different, um, history. And that's what gives the world some challenges in

00:08:37.640 terms of here's a business negotiator, not a political negotiator. Now, what's interesting

00:08:42.920 is Carney comes out of the business world. And so I think he's respectful of what Trump does when

00:08:49.580 Trump will make a statement and then see how people respond. And then a day later change the statement

00:08:55.240 and go, yeah, but he doesn't feel Trump isn't accountable for changing his mind. And so that's

00:09:00.860 the only place I would dance is to say, I'd rather judge Carney by results, which is, are we going to

00:09:07.000 get some projects underway? Daniel Smith's been absolutely adamant, as has the industry, that a

00:09:11.880 pipeline across West, Western Canada and, and central to Northern BC into, uh, the Kitimat, Prince

00:09:19.040 Rupert regions makes sense. So are we going to get an accelerated approval on a pipeline that was once

00:09:25.720 almost, uh, the pipeline route, everything was approved. So what can we do? And that goes back

00:09:30.120 to results. And, uh, cause all there's so much talk, not as concerned of the talk as I am call

00:09:36.040 it the results. And that's, he's, we're only a month into it now. Let's see what the next two or

00:09:41.260 three months holds. That's true. I want to ask you though, one of the things that we learned last

00:09:45.400 week was that we won't get a budget, uh, that Carney and his new finance minister say that they just

00:09:49.880 don't have time. So we're going to have to wait to the fall. Wondering what your thoughts are on that.

00:09:53.540 Well, let's remember a budget is about being accountable. In other words, here's a forecast

00:09:58.300 for what we're going to spend and where the revenue is going to come from. But let's be

00:10:02.480 clear. They're still spending, they're still generating revenue. So everything's happening,

00:10:06.680 whether you have a budget or not, they're just doing stuff. And that's why they're,

00:10:10.620 they're basically running the country in the absence of a budget, but built on where they were

00:10:16.100 before. And that's one of the dangerous parts, which is, you know, Freeland and Trudeau and their

00:10:21.340 concern for budget balance. We still remember Trudeau saying, well, the budget will balance

00:10:26.160 itself. One of the stupidest comments ever by a political leader of any party, the budget will 1.00

00:10:32.020 balance itself. So I think the, I think the party's been a bit disrespectful of the budget process in 1.00

00:10:37.800 terms of accountability to Canada, but they're still, they're still running the cost. They're still

00:10:42.960 generating revenue. What they've also said now is that they will do a budget in the fall. The earlier,

00:10:48.540 when I first heard them say, skip the budget, it was kind of like, we'll do one for next year,

00:10:53.520 but we'll just keep working off of old information for this year. But they have said they'll bring out

00:10:57.960 one in the fall. So again, let's, results will be everything. Interesting. I, you know, one of the

00:11:03.440 things about Justin Trudeau's comment when he said it, right, the idea was that he said, well, look,

00:11:06.900 we're going to grow the economy. The economy is going to grow. Taxation will go up. Well, the budget

00:11:10.780 will balance itself. To hear that from somebody who never balanced the budget, who was prime minister for

00:11:14.960 nine years and never even came close to balancing the budget. It's interesting that, yeah, that one

00:11:20.500 line that he said kind of stuck with him because he just never got it done. I want to switch gears.

00:11:25.200 You did mention Danielle Smith. And one of the things that we have been observing and reporting on here

00:11:29.960 at Juneau News since the federal election are changes that are happening in Alberta. Specifically,

00:11:36.300 Danielle Smith changed the Citizens Initiative Act, which she changed the rule to lower the threshold

00:11:42.340 that would prompt a referendum. So you need a certain number of signatures. She lowered that

00:11:46.920 threshold and lengthened the period of time that they needed. So from 20% of voters down to 10%.

00:11:54.740 And I think she extended it to several months, 120 days. What do you make of those changes coming

00:12:00.880 right after the federal election? Do you think that she was signaling something or, you know,

00:12:05.780 she said that they were going to make these changes either way. But I think that the signaling

00:12:09.780 there was pretty alarming. Let's add one more data point to this conversation. And that's the ability

00:12:17.440 to recall a municipal mayor. And the requirement was something like half a million people had to sign

00:12:24.920 the Recall Act. And so it was tabled then that these Recall Reconsideration, Let the Public Have a Say

00:12:31.500 Acts were inappropriate. They were structured terribly. And again, Jody Gondek, there was 100,000 people said,

00:12:39.240 do we want you gone? And she goes, yeah, well, it doesn't matter. You know, we needed 300,000 or 500,000

00:12:44.580 people to vote against. I think all that Danielle's done is allow the separatist movement a voice. I don't

00:12:51.500 think of her as a separatist in any way, shape, or form. And in fact, I was sitting at a dinner the

00:12:57.560 other night with a conversation about separatism and I'm getting pressed and pushed by a few people to

00:13:04.140 play a more profile role in separatism. And I politely say, well, if the separatist movement

00:13:10.440 wants us to separate, is the plan to build a chain link fence 20 feet high or a wall like Trump did

00:13:18.880 down in the border? Or are we just going to build a moat, a 20 foot wide, 10 foot deep moat? And people

00:13:25.920 look at me, that's one of the stupidest things you could ever say. You're right. It is stupid. 1.00

00:13:30.940 So let's talk about the difference between separation and improving the deal we have. We're not going to 1.00

00:13:37.480 separate. We're not physically separating. Separation simply means a better deal, a different deal. And

00:13:43.540 right now we're working on a better deal, a different deal, whether it's converting equalization

00:13:49.660 or getting a true energy corridor or respect for what it is we're doing as a province. And again, that's

00:13:56.400 uranium, it's mining, it's the north, south, east, west pipelines. There's so many things. And I often

00:14:03.620 now start to push, instead of separation, why don't we focus on what we would call the collaboration

00:14:09.280 movement? Collaboration would be Manitoba, next to Manitoba, something called Saskatchewan,

00:14:16.500 then Alberta and BC. We have two access ports to the north and to the west. We have every resource

00:14:25.280 Canada has. We have in spades, so to speak. And so if the west could collaborate, work cooperatively,

00:14:33.700 I think the rest of Canada, oh, and there's a group of people, a group of provinces in the, on the west

00:14:39.500 called the, oh, the Atlantic provinces. They work as a collaboration. I'm suggesting that the west be more

00:14:47.040 thoughtful about collaboration. And certainly Mo and Smith, I haven't talked to Wob Canoe, but the conversation

00:14:53.340 about the idea of just being more voiceful and more organized, again, collaborating as the west

00:15:01.120 would make Canada better. And we just punt this nonsense about, to be blunt, separation.

00:15:07.460 Interesting. I had Preston Manning, former leader of the, well, founder of the Reform Party,

00:15:11.640 former leader of the opposition. And he, he painted a similar picture where he was calling for an

00:15:16.860 assembly of the west. So Western politicians from provincial legislatures, getting together

00:15:23.420 and talking policy, like having a democratic debate, which he claims it doesn't happen as much

00:15:28.380 with elected officials because it's too partisan, it's too back and forth, but having sort of a

00:15:32.560 collaborative discussion of the best ways to boost the efforts. I thought that was a very interesting

00:15:37.300 way of thinking about it. I'm curious, I had Keane Beckstein, my co-founder at Geno News, on last week,

00:15:41.620 and he said that people in central Canada think that the people behind the separatist movements are a bunch of

00:15:45.940 hillbillies. He's like, but the reality is, he's like, I went to a meeting and there was like a bunch

00:15:50.180 of Ferraris outside and that the people who are pushing this movement are like wealthy bankers and

00:15:54.680 successful business people. And I'm just, I'm just curious if you think that there's any validity to

00:15:58.860 that point. I'd suggest that there's no one profile. There's no rednecks, there's no business leaders. 0.88

00:16:04.240 It's just people in Alberta who are, to be blunt, pissed off. And they have every right to be pissed off,

00:16:09.800 every right to be frustrated because 10 years of federal government with absolutely no concern,

00:16:15.380 consideration for the businesses of the West, the economic structures of the West. Again, it's

00:16:21.940 the whole equalization concept. And someone in the East, a friend of mine said, well, you don't write

00:16:27.180 a check to Quebec. You're correct. We don't. But take a look at what Quebec takes from the country.

00:16:33.340 And it's pretty clear that we effectively write a check. So don't tell me that the mechanic matters

00:16:38.600 as to who we write the check for. Money is absorbed from Alberta and the West and our energy and our

00:16:44.840 uranium and all our businesses and industries. And then it's absorbed and given to a province that

00:16:51.120 doesn't have to report hydro revenue, electrical generation. They don't have to report that as part

00:16:58.240 of their assets. Something very, very wrong with this structure. And so we've got every reason to be

00:17:03.400 pissed off. And whether it's a separatist wearing a make a Canada great hat again, or, or what it is,

00:17:10.260 I don't care, but I wouldn't really characterize the, I've got friends who talk separation at every

00:17:16.620 level, whether it's a lawyer, a banker, or the people at the, the coffee shop I hang out at.

00:17:22.640 They're all frustrated. They're all concerned and they have a legitimate frustration, a legitimate

00:17:26.960 concern. I'm simply, and again, I wasn't aware that Preston was talking about the West,

00:17:31.720 but, uh, I've been in several meetings recently where this idea of collaboration has been tabled.

00:17:36.740 And I can tell you, if I had to have a vote, I would have had a hundred people say a hundred percent

00:17:42.500 on side with collaboration and 20 people would have said no separation is more important.

00:17:48.760 So it's a very, it's a very vocal minority. And that's where with Daniel Smith letting,

00:17:54.200 you know, whatever the number is, 170,000 people, um, sign a petition that will trigger

00:18:00.800 a referendum. Let's not forget that the referendum vote doesn't come for a year

00:18:05.140 ish. And we've got a year for Carney, Hudson, and whatever Pierre can do in the background,

00:18:11.460 as well as, you know, Bob Canu and, and Scott Moe and, uh, Daniel Smith and maybe Eby,

00:18:17.580 um, trying to do something better for Canada, in particular the West. But if the West is better,

00:18:23.640 Canada's better.

00:18:24.660 Interesting. Okay. I really want to get your thoughts on this one. So Arlene Dickinson,

00:18:28.160 your former colleague at the Dragon's Den, she's a Canadian businesswoman, a very prominent

00:18:31.920 investor in television personality. She had this to say about Premier Smith. Here is

00:18:36.760 quoting from CTV. She says it's wholly un-Canadian. So let me just read this. It says,

00:18:41.040 last week, Canadian businesswoman Arlene Dickinson posted on social media. She's genuinely stunned

00:18:45.600 by Premier Daniel Smith's actions of Bill 54. That's the one that we're talking about changing the

00:18:49.780 Citizens Initiative Act. She calls the bill wholly un-Canadian. She writes,

00:18:54.980 I'm an Albertan and I share the deep frustrations that Albertans have. I absolutely understand them.

00:18:59.320 But there is a real difference between fighting for fairness and threatening the foundations of

00:19:03.940 our country, Dickinson told CTV News Edmonton. She adds that while she understands how Albertans feel,

00:19:10.100 Smith isn't demonstrating leadership and hoped that she would rise to the occasion. So tell me,

00:19:14.940 Brett, what do you think of that?

00:19:16.420 Well, Candice, my frustration with Arlene, and it's tied in no small way to her close friendship

00:19:26.760 with Jan Arden, illogical, irresponsible, unprofessional, unethical conversation. So if

00:19:34.600 they want to start challenging people who are questioning what's going on in Canada, I mean,

00:19:39.500 all Danielle Smith has said is, I will let those with a voice around separation have a voice. But it

00:19:48.840 doesn't mean she's giving them any control. There's no outcome that's a guarantee. And in fact,

00:19:54.360 what frustrates Albertans and the West is how they're treated by the East. And guess what? Arlene

00:20:00.860 lives down East and she's part of that world. All due respect, she didn't do much for deals,

00:20:05.660 isn't much of a business person. I mean, all due respect, she doesn't do much. And it's a lot of

00:20:13.020 fun to work with on the show. And in fact, she was the person who put my name forward. So I'm

00:20:17.620 respectful of Arlene the Dragon, but not Arlene the business person, and certainly not Jan Arden as a

00:20:24.100 spokesperson for Alberta. It's just nonsense. And I'm just not there. Again, as I keep saying,

00:20:28.900 I'm not a separatist, but the separatist movement is elevating the voice of the debate and the

00:20:34.540 conversation that we're having with a country run by the same party that has made hundreds and

00:20:42.220 hundreds, if not thousands of unethical mistakes running our country. And so we're going to let,

00:20:49.300 no, Carney's being challenged for sure, but let's see what time does for us.

00:20:53.060 Well, thank you so much. It's always a pleasure to have you on the show, Brett. We really appreciate

00:20:56.240 your time and your insights. I hope to have you back again real soon. All right, folks,

00:21:01.360 that's all the time we have for today. Thank you so much for tuning in. We'll be back again

00:21:04.900 tomorrow with all the news. I'm Candace Malcolm. This is The Candace Malcolm Show. Thank you and God

00:21:08.820 bless.

00:21:09.100 You're watching Juno News, Canada's fastest growing independent news network. Our team works day and

00:21:20.020 night to bring you nationwide coverage of the issues that matter. Honest reporting of the stories that

00:21:27.900 put Canadians first. From far and wide, Juno is doing the work to turn the dial in the right

00:21:36.360 direction, bringing you the news from the field and in the studio, wherever it takes us. We get the job done

00:21:45.320 for you, for Canada.

The Candice Malcolm Show - May 22, 2025

Carney’s own words come back to HAUNT him, room goes DEAD SILENT when reporter asks this question

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript