Do black Canadians support the renaming of Dundas Square？
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Summary
On Dec. 14th, Toronto renamed Dundas Square after Henry Dundas, an abolitionist who helped end slavery in the British Empire. But did you know that Dundas was actually a slave trader? And that the name of the new square is actually from a tribe in Ghana that was part of the slave trade? In this episode, I'm joined by writer and scholar Samuel Say to discuss how people feel about this.
Transcript
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Canadian elites want to rewrite our history and erase any mention of the old history.
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Now this in theory is a bid to make newcomers and new immigrants feel more welcome and more
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comfortable. But does it actually do that? Well today I'm joined by writer and scholar
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Samuel Say to discuss how people really feel about woke cancel culture bids.
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I'm Candice Malcolm and this is The Candice Malcolm Show.
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Hi everyone, thank you so much for tuning into the podcast. Don't forget to like this video,
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subscribe to our channel. If you're listening to this podcast and you enjoy it, please consider
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leaving us a five-star review. Don't forget to check out our website tnc.news. Okay, so you've
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definitely heard the news by now on Thursday, December 14th. Toronto voted, the socialist mayor
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and the city council voted unanimously to rename the city's iconic Dundas Square. The new name
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would become Sankofa Square. Well Andrew Lawton almost immediately broke the story that the
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name Sankofa comes from a tribe in Africa in Ghana called the Akan tribe and they actually
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have their own sordid history when it comes to slavery. They were part of the slave trade,
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part of the transatlantic slave trade. They used their own slaves. So we were told that
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Henry Dundas had to go because of his alleged connections to slavery. Turns out that Henry
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Dundas was actually quite an abolitionist who fought against slavery and helped end slavery
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in the British Empire. And yet here we are bringing in a new name that has its own connections. It
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really makes you shake your head and wonder what's going on in city council in Toronto. Do they do
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research? Do they even bother googling things before they try to fundamentally change Canada? Well I
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wanted to bring in a new perspective, a different perspective on this story. So I've asked a writer,
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scholar and occasional True North contributor Samuel Say on the program today to get his perspective. So
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Samuel, welcome to the Candice Malcolm Show. Thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for
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having me. Okay Sam, so you saw the story and well first of all I just want to say congratulations on
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the recent birth of your son. Welcome to the joys of fatherhood and parenthood. It's really wonderful
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to see you and your wife so happy. And I did want to get your perspective on what is happening in
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Toronto. So what do you think of all this? Yeah, you know, I'm a Ghanaian. I'm a Ghanaian Canadian.
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I'm actually part of the Akan tribe. So when I read this, I'm like, it's frankly so stupid to me.
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It's absurd. You mentioned already just how dumb it is because of the fact that if the whole goal
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is to try to erase the so-called connections to slavery, well, I mean the Akan tribe, particularly
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the Ashanti tribe, the biggest tribe within the Akan tribe, were massive slave traders. They
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were, they didn't just trade with the Europeans. They were the one who actually suggested the
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slave trade to the Europeans, right? And then it was actually, of course, the Europeans, especially
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the British, that abolished the slave trade. People like Henry Dundas. Now they say that, you know,
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he helped delay the slave trade as well too. Well, in a sense that's true, but they're ignoring a lot of
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context there. Nevertheless, he was still an abolitionist. At least, even if he's an imperfect
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abolitionist, he's still an abolitionist. But the Akan tribe or particularly the Ashanti tribe within
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the Akan tribe in Ghana, they were not abolitionists. They were forced to end slavery through the
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British. So it's so bizarre that they would choose this name to, and you know, one of the fascinating
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things is that as an Akan person, as a Ghanaian, the meaning of Sankofa is actually very, very
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important. It means that we should not erase the past. It means that we should not forget the past.
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We should remember it, right? And to, you know, to try to live in a better way because we remember
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the past. Well, this is so bizarre because this is literally trying to ignore the past, right? So it's
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really weird that they're trying to, they're choosing the name Sankofa by doing the very thing
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that the meaning of the word suggests you shouldn't do. So it's so bizarre. Wow, Sam. Well, thanks for
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sharing. I mean, there's so much irony wrapped up in this, right? It's like you're taking away the
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name of an abolitionist and naming it after a tribe that turns out is sort of infamous or well-known,
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at least for people who are aware of it, with their ties to slavery. And then, of course, the meaning of
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that word is to do exactly the opposite of what city council has done. Interesting, I noticed on
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Twitter there's a woman named Jennifer Dundas who, she's actually a guest on Harrison Faulkner's
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Ratio podcast the other day. I definitely recommend you check that out. But she's a
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descendant of Henry Dundas. She's actually a former CBC journalist as well and a crown prosecutor.
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She wrote that the name was on a shortlist for 14 months and that there was a lot of debate inside
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council about this. So you would think, you know, they've been planning to do this for years.
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This was on the shortlist for 14 months. Why didn't anybody bother to sort of look into this?
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Do they not think about it? Like, what do you think the mindset is behind
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this unanimous vote? Like, every single councillor, there wasn't a single one that said,
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hey guys, hold on a second, let's like maybe think this through a little more. No one,
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apparently no one in the city council had that insight. Why do you think that is, Sam?
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Well, we've seen lately in our country, considering what happened with the Nazi that was celebrated
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by our parliament, when they're thinking of virtue signaling, they're not really thinking about doing
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research. They're so focused on getting applause from certain groups of people that they just choose
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to not care about the history. They don't care to think about whether it was the Nazi looking him up
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to make sure that he's actually a Nazi and not really this war hero that they're making him out to be.
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Or, like the word Sankofa, they're not thinking about, huh, what are the ties here? Could there be,
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could anything go wrong with this? They seem to be so focused with virtue signaling that that's all that
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matters to them. And look, here's the reality. I'm a young Ghanaian Canadian. Ghanaian Canadians do
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not care about this. We're not, like, there's no Ghanaian Canadian that I know. And I spoke to many
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of them who are like, yeah, this is, no, what they care about, right? And look, black, black Canadians
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tend to be, of course, almost all immigrants, right? First generation immigrants or second
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generation immigrants. And what they care about most is the economy. They care about fixing the issues
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that young people, right? Young families are, that Canadian Canadians are trying to feed their
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families. They're trying to buy homes. They can't. Nobody cares about changing this. It's not pleasing
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anybody. But as always, it is just the silly government trying to ignore real issues, issues
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facing real immigrants. They're trying to ignore that by doing this virtue signaling. And it's not
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doing anything. Nobody cares. I really, I really do think that a lot of Canadians have just had enough
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in general. And it's interesting to hear your perspective about immigrant Canadians and black
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Canadians as well. It seems to me really, Sam, that multiculturalism is failing before our eyes.
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I'll give you a few examples of just what we've seen in the past, I don't know, 72 hours here in
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Toronto. It seems that all the bad stuff is happening in Toronto. So first up at Yorkdale Mall, just north
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of Toronto, the northern part of the city, we saw families being harassed and intimidated by Hamas
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supporters at Yorkdale Mall. They're visiting Santa Claus, okay? They're with their kids trying to sit on
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Santa's knee. And you can hear the jeers and shouting of the crowd. Let's play that quick clip.
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Next, down at Eaton Centre, which is just across the street from Dundas Square, we saw more Hamas
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supporters, this time swearing at Christmas shoppers and even threatening police officers. Looks like a
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pretty scary, intimidating crowd. Here's a quick glimpse of what that looked like.
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And then finally, Sam, we saw the news of this gigantic 55-foot religious statue being erected
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in Brampton, Ontario. There was a tremendous backlash and opposition to this large statue,
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of course, against the backdrop that Canadian statues get torn down with some frequency. And
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as we're talking about today, names get removed from our history. And so it's a little strange to
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see other cultures getting celebrated in this way. What is happening in Toronto? What's happening in
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Is a symptom of what's happened to our country with multiculturalism. Look, I'm an immigrant. I love
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my Ghanaian culture. But I also know that I'm in Canada. And that Canada, we do have a culture.
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It's unfortunate that we're trying to push this multiculturalism thing. There is a Canadian
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history and a Canadian culture. And people are trying to abandon that. These are, of course,
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the woke leftists. But the reason why I mentioned that is because, look, when I immigrated to the
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country 26 years ago, I knew that I had to assimilate. I knew that there was a dominant
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culture that I had to respect. And I love the culture that I've came to respect. But the issue
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now is this. When you push multiculturalism, what you're doing is you're teaching people,
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you're teaching new immigrants, new citizens, not to respect the culture that Canada has.
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Therefore, and look, when you have multiculturalism, you're going to have competing cultures.
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So what happens is when people have competing cultures, there will eventually be a struggle
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for a dominant culture. And you're seeing that right now. There's some people who want their
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culture to dominate other Canadians. And that's what you're seeing already with some of these,
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some of these, what happened at Yorkdale Mall, or what we've seen already with a lot of the
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protests, the anti-Semitic protests you've been seeing as well, too. There are people who are
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trying to establish their own dominant culture, because they know that, unfortunately, so many
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Canadians or so many politicians want to do away with the Canadian culture. Now, when it comes to
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that statue, it's, it's, it's work, I'm from Brampton, and I know that's in Brampton. That,
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to me, is absurd as well, too. Because the reality is this, is that I, you know, believe in religious
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freedom, right? I want anybody who, you know, I don't want Hindus to be, of course, kept from coming to
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the country, necessarily. That's not the case at all. However, the reality is, now, if you are
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somebody in Brampton, you have this massive statue that you almost can't avoid. It's like, you know,
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55 foot tall. It's, there is this, it's basically Brampton saying, the, the, the God we worship here
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is a Hindu God. I can't imagine that if some other religious group wanted to establish that, that would
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be okay. I can't imagine that that would be tolerated. But because it seems like we are okay
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respecting any other religion, except for the traditional Christian religion in Canada, then
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that, that's okay. And again, it's, this stuff is going to keep happening if Canada continues to reject
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its own cultural heritage. No, that's a really good point. Like, I, I completely agree with the
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religious freedom aspect of it. I think that Hindus should be able to pray however they want. I'm glad
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that they have that freedom in Canada. I'm very happy that they come. In so many ways, Hindus are model
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citizens. But there is something political, like a statement being made by erecting a statue of that
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size happening. It's like a mis, misreading of the tone of the country. Like everyone else's
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statues are getting torn and you're erecting this, this large statue. You can, you can draw some like
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historical parallels to that. But if anything, it's just a little bit like distasteful or disrespectful
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in, in Canada. But, you know, I, I think you're right. I think that, that newcomers have sort of lost
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the, the respect and Canadians, it's, it's, it's our fault. We haven't, especially our elites and those
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in charge haven't demanded that newcomers respect Canada and, and come to terms with the fact that
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there is a dominant culture. I thought it was interesting, Samuel, you might not have heard
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this, but there was a proposal to make December Christian Heritage Month in Canada so that Canadians
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can learn about Christianity and the traditions that actually helped find this, found this country,
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like a country was based on Christian morals and values. And it was rejected. And if you look at the
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list of all of the other heritage months that we celebrate in Canada, they're, you know, November
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is actually Hindu Heritage Month and like every other culture and every other country and other
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other religion gets a month or at least a week or a day to celebrate their heritage. And when it comes
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to the founding religion of this country, no, you can't, you can't have that. Yeah. And you know,
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you know, our very, of the official model of Canada is explicitly Christian, right? It has come from
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Psalm 72, right? From dominion to dominion, that's referring to Christ, lordship and kingship,
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over Canada. And yet here we are rejecting this and we rather have, and you know, speaking of
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doing away with Henry Dundas because he supposedly was a, you know, wasn't a real abolitionist. Well,
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here's the issue. I mean, let's face it. There have been a lot of atrocities that has happened under a
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lot of Hindu pagan worship. And here we are though, choosing a pagan god to, you know, to be erected in
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Brampton while, as you said, in terms of, you know, while we're, you know, doing away with some
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historical figures that mean a lot to Canada, we're saying that, well, they should be canceled,
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but we should celebrate Hindu gods that again, in the name of worshiping them, so many atrocities
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have happened under these gods as well. It's absolutely absurd. But again, while we continue
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to reject the Christian traditional history that has made Canada what it is, we are going to have a
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It's so true how they sort of whitewash the crimes and the real dark parts of history from other
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cultures, and only focus on the dark moments in Canadian history, which really aren't that dark
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compared to some of the histories of the rest of the world. Well, Samuel, I always really appreciate
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talking to you. I love your perspective. I love hearing from you. So thank you so much. And I hope
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you have a wonderful Christmas with your new and growing family. God bless you. And thank you for joining
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us. Thank you so much. All right. Thanks for tuning in. I'm Candace Malcolm, and this is the Candace