The Candice Malcolm Show - May 12, 2025


Preston Manningļ¼š Mark Carney will be Canadaā€™s LAST Prime Minister


Episode Stats

Length

32 minutes

Words per Minute

167.8638

Word Count

5,492

Sentence Count

314

Misogynist Sentences

2

Hate Speech Sentences

2


Summary

Former Reform Party Leader Preston Manning joins The Candice Malcolm Show to talk about his life and career, the recent election, and his thoughts on the current state of Canadian politics. He also talks about his new book, "The Biggest Threat to National Unity: How the Liberal Party Threatens Western Canada."


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm and this is The Candice Malcolm Show. I hope everyone had a wonderful
00:00:06.620 weekend and to all of the mothers out there, happy Mother's Day. I hope you were spoiled
00:00:10.460 and I hope you had a wonderful time. Of course, I'm a mother of four small children and my
00:00:14.660 kids absolutely love Mother's Day. They've been making Mother's Day cards for like a
00:00:18.860 month and as soon as Mother's Day was over, as soon as they gave me the cards, they started
00:00:22.860 immediately on making their Father's Day cards. So it was all very fun and very cute. I want
00:00:27.440 to give a quick shout out though to my own mother because so much of the reason that
00:00:31.560 my life is the way it is and the way that I am able to have four kids and also run a business
00:00:37.020 and be a journalist and have a podcast is because my mom actually lives with us and she does
00:00:40.680 so much. So having a basically a stay-at-home grandmother is like the best gift that we
00:00:45.260 could give to our children and she's actually out on her own adventure right now. She's not
00:00:49.320 here. She is in Spain. So her and her sister have decided to go off on sort of the adventure
00:00:54.420 of a lifetime. They're doing the Way of St. James or as it's called in Spanish, the Camino
00:00:59.160 de Santiago where they're basically walking across Spain doing an 800-kilometer pilgrimage
00:01:04.360 from Balboa. They flew into Madrid and then up Balboa and then they are walking across the
00:01:12.120 country, a 30-day trek and they're really having the adventure of a lifetime. So I'm so proud of my
00:01:17.380 mom for going and doing this with her sister, having this time for herself, for her health and her
00:01:22.240 faith and everything like that. And we really miss you and we can't wait for you to come home,
00:01:26.020 grandma. Okay. Now to get to the news today, I am very pleased as an interview I've been trying to
00:01:31.300 set up for some time because this person is so relevant to the conversation that we are having
00:01:35.800 in Canada. Right now I'm talking about Preston Manning. Preston is the founder and the leader of
00:01:40.300 the Reform Party. He led that party from 1987 to 2000 and he was the leader of the official opposition
00:01:46.180 from 1997 to 2000 and always just a voice of wisdom in these troublesome times, especially
00:01:52.760 talking about the pathway towards independence or the question of independence for Western Canada
00:01:57.680 and for Alberta. So Preston, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us today.
00:02:01.120 Okay. Well, thanks for having me. That was a good reference to Mother's Day too. That's a very
00:02:08.300 important point to make. Well, thank you. Thank you. Okay. So I haven't spoken to you in a while.
00:02:15.760 We had you on the show a few months ago and we were talking a little bit about this issue,
00:02:19.340 but obviously it's really flared up. So first of all, why don't you just tell me what your reaction
00:02:23.260 to the recent election was? Were you surprised to see the Liberals get reelected? And what do you
00:02:28.520 make of Mark Kearney as the Prime Minister? Well, the election shifted from the expectation was that
00:02:35.240 Mr. Trudeau was going to be the Prime Minister and the Liberal leader and the official opposition was
00:02:41.800 well-tuned up to deal with all the inadequacies of the nine years of Trudeau reign. But of course,
00:02:49.940 when that changed and President Trump intervening himself in our election and Mr. Kearney
00:02:57.760 becoming the quickly becoming the leader of the Liberals, the whole scene changed. And I'm disappointed
00:03:05.520 with the election results because like a lot of Canadians, particularly in Western Canada,
00:03:09.640 we wanted a change in administration, just a complete change. And the fact that that didn't
00:03:15.840 happen has led to a lot of unrest and discouragement with the results of the election.
00:03:22.420 Well, you had a really interesting op-ed in the Globe and Mail back on April 2nd. The headline that
00:03:28.020 they gave it, I don't know if you wrote this or if that's just what the editor put, but Mark Kearney
00:03:31.480 poses a threat to national unity. And so you write that politicians, the media, voters in Central
00:03:39.520 Canada, whether they realize or not, the greatest threat to national unity is emerging not from
00:03:43.260 Quebec, but on the Western front. Again, revealed by a recent Polaris survey on account of mismanagement
00:03:49.580 of national affairs by the Liberal government and its consistent failure to address those issues of
00:03:54.240 greatest concern to Western Canadians. Large numbers of Westerners simply will not stand for
00:03:58.700 another four years of Liberal government, no matter who leads it. So I'm wondering what compelled you
00:04:04.560 to write this op-ed in the Globe and Mail? And what do you make of the sort of, I mean, it went,
00:04:11.020 you know, it was really noticed by the elites in Central Canada. Many of them didn't like it at all.
00:04:16.080 And what did you make of the backlash to this piece?
00:04:18.760 Well, I'm glad that the Globe managed to print it. It's not in line really with the Globe's own
00:04:25.560 editorial policy, but I think it's a message that voters and elites in Central Canada need to hear,
00:04:33.460 that there's enormous unrest in the West and dissatisfaction with the way the federations
00:04:40.420 manage, particularly the intrusion of the federal government in the natural resources sector,
00:04:47.840 which is so fundamental, not just to the Western economy, but to the entire economy.
00:04:52.560 There's no pipelines built. There's bans on making it difficult for energy to get to seaboard.
00:04:59.720 That unrest is just building and building. And there's an indifference to it in Central Canada.
00:05:07.220 They think this is just some kind of regional whining. And I think it's a lot more serious than that.
00:05:13.400 The Central Canadian media often always seemed to think this is just an Alberta phenomena.
00:05:20.780 And the polling shows this is much broader than Alberta. It's just as strong.
00:05:25.100 This feeling of unrest is just as strong in Saskatchewan, in rural parts of Manitoba,
00:05:32.180 and in Eastern, Central, and Northern British Columbia.
00:05:35.900 So I wrote that to try to get the voters in Central Canada and Atlantic Canada to realize that if you reelect the Liberal government
00:05:44.320 and you have the population to do it, you're going to see an increase in this Western unrest rather than a decrease in it.
00:05:52.140 It'll be interesting to see the polls, if polling is being done as to post-election,
00:05:57.280 to see if that Western sentiment increased or stayed the same or decreased as a result of the election.
00:06:03.280 I expect it will have increased.
00:06:06.760 Well, there has been some polling, and I'll get to that in a minute.
00:06:09.440 But I just wanted to highlight a few more pieces from your op-ed and just get you to reply.
00:06:13.340 I mean, first of all, that line there that no matter who leads the Liberal Party,
00:06:17.380 a large number of Westerners will simply not stand for another four years.
00:06:21.900 You also write to voters, particularly in Central Atlantic Canada,
00:06:24.920 need to recognize that a vote for the Kearney Liberals is a vote for Western secession,
00:06:29.980 a vote to break up Canada as we know it.
00:06:32.100 And then you finish a piece by saying the next Prime Minister of Canada,
00:06:35.520 if it remains Mark Kearney, would be identified in the history books,
00:06:39.360 tragically and needlessly, as the last Prime Minister of a united Canada.
00:06:43.820 And so I'm just wondering if you could elaborate on that.
00:06:46.060 Do you really think that Western Canada is at the point where it won't last another four years,
00:06:50.560 it won't stand for it, and that that is perhaps how Mark Kearney will go down?
00:06:54.260 I think it's the combination.
00:06:55.780 Some say the bubbles in an aero truffle piece can take 34 seconds to melt in your mouth.
00:07:02.660 Sometimes the very amount you're stuck at the same red light.
00:07:06.300 Rich, creamy, chocolatey aero truffle.
00:07:09.160 Feel the aero bubbles melt.
00:07:11.200 It's mind bubbling.
00:07:12.960 Quebec secession sentiment is there as well.
00:07:16.740 It looks like the Parti Quebecois is destined to form the next government in Quebec.
00:07:24.000 The first plank in their platform is to hold another referendum on the secession issue.
00:07:29.880 So you're going to have that continued problem probably increased on the eastern front,
00:07:35.220 and then you combine that with this unrest in Western Canada,
00:07:40.340 dissatisfaction with the way the Federation is working.
00:07:42.920 Those are two forces that, if they start operating at the same time,
00:07:48.240 have the potential to blow the country apart.
00:07:51.180 And what's most worrisome in Western Canada is the utter indifference
00:07:55.220 of the Central Canadian elites and media to this phenomenon.
00:08:01.360 And even the misreporting on it, they keep thinking it's just an Alberta phenomenon.
00:08:07.180 It's polling shows it's broader than Alberta.
00:08:10.220 They also think that the only thing that's being talked about is secessions, the separation.
00:08:14.840 That's not the only thing that's been talked about.
00:08:17.100 The other thing that's being talked about is how could the Federation,
00:08:20.200 the federal government react in such a way as to diminish that unrest.
00:08:25.060 That's just as much on the table.
00:08:26.540 It's been advocated by Premier Smith and Premier Mo of Saskatchewan.
00:08:31.640 So there's other options besides separation.
00:08:34.800 But it's not all Alberta.
00:08:36.340 There's other options other than secession.
00:08:38.820 But Central Canada and elites better pay attention to it.
00:08:42.380 It's got the potential to wreck the Federation.
00:08:46.440 Well, you say that Central elites might be indifferent to it.
00:08:49.880 In some ways, it seems like they're deliberately hostile.
00:08:52.960 I'll point to this Toronto Star article op-ed.
00:08:55.800 It wasn't even an op-ed, Preston, because it was written by someone who writes for the paper, a business columnist.
00:09:01.160 And the title is, Is It Time for Alberta to Go Alone and Break from Canada?
00:09:06.360 And the sort of way that the Toronto Star was promoting this was, let them go.
00:09:10.120 Yes, it's time for Alberta to go let them go, as in like there's some kind of a burden to the rest of Canada.
00:09:15.180 Reading that as an Albertan, what goes through your head when you see that kind of thing?
00:09:19.520 Well, that's typical of the Toronto Star.
00:09:21.640 In fact, if you wanted to fan the flames of secession in Western Canada, the best way to do it would be to give every Westerner a subscription to the Toronto Star.
00:09:33.000 Because A, the indifference, B, the hostility, and C, the ignorance of the role that the Western provinces, particularly Alberta, play in the Federation.
00:09:47.640 The revenue that is generated for the national government, the proportion of GDP that is generated particularly by the petroleum industry.
00:09:56.800 That op-ed just indicates a complete ignorance of the relevance of that fact and its relevance even to central Canada.
00:10:04.300 Well, it is something that I think a lot of Albertans know is how much Alberta contributes to the rest of the country above and beyond what it gets back in services.
00:10:12.560 I don't know that that's common knowledge to folks in Ontario and Quebec, although it should be.
00:10:17.800 I'm curious to hear your thoughts, Preston, on how Premier Danielle Smith has sort of responded.
00:10:22.380 So the day after the election, April 30th, she came out and announced changes to the Citizens Initiative Act, which basically lowers the threshold by which a referendum can be prompted through a sort of democratic process where signatures requirement went from 20 percent of all voters down to 10 percent of all voters.
00:10:42.380 And the threshold timeline was increased.
00:10:44.980 And then last week, Premier Smith came out and announced what she calls the Alberta Accord, which is a plan to basically guarantee more pipelines for the future.
00:10:54.820 She made four major demands, including a corridor to get Alberta energy and oil to tidewater in the Pacific, Arctic and Atlantic.
00:11:05.020 She said that they wanted the feds to stop interfering with the development of natural resources, including getting rid of the No New Pipelines Law Bill C-69, as well as the oil tanker ban.
00:11:15.740 They also demanded that the government refrain from imposing export tax or any restrictions on Alberta's natural resources.
00:11:22.280 And finally, basically an end to equalization, that they wanted to create a new formula whereby big, wealthy provinces like Quebec, Ontario and British Columbia no longer get the transfers from Alberta.
00:11:36.460 So what do you make of Premier Smith's actions and sort of what she's laying out on the table here?
00:11:42.480 Well, I think it's a responsible approach.
00:11:44.500 I think it's supported by a large number of Albertans and what the approach she is basically taking, say that there's a list of conditions that have to be met by the federal government and the federal parliament for the West to remain content within the federation.
00:12:03.360 And she spells them out.
00:12:04.780 Premier Moe has done the same thing.
00:12:07.020 And I think her list is correct.
00:12:09.360 It's very much based on this fundamental fact that apparently large numbers of Canadians don't get, that the biggest economic strength of this country is its natural resources.
00:12:23.600 Canada is the largest country, second largest country in the world by landmass, which means you have the second largest or maybe the largest stock of natural resources, agriculture, energy, mining, forestry and the fishery.
00:12:37.720 And the fact that under the Trudeau administration, those sectors were treated as relics from the past and environmental liabilities, those are the building blocks to the Canadian economy.
00:12:51.540 And what she's doing is asserting there's certain things that have to be done to remove the obstructions to the development of those sectors by the federal government.
00:12:59.980 And that's not just in Alberta's interest, that's in the national interest.
00:13:03.220 And the ball is now in the federal government's court and people are going to watch the throne speech.
00:13:08.560 Not just the speech, there's been talk, talk, talk about all this for a long time.
00:13:13.700 They're going to watch whether there's any action on the part of the federal government to address those things on her list.
00:13:21.300 And in terms of the referendum, of course, Alberta, again, Western Canada, tends to favor more democratic mechanisms, referendums, citizens' initiatives, freer votes in the legislatures than the parliament.
00:13:35.160 And this is quite in accordance with that tradition.
00:13:38.020 And basically, the referendum gives people a chance who want a particular position to be adopted by the governments to have a referendum to see how much support there is for it.
00:13:49.240 Well, you mentioned earlier about having popular support and you'd be curious to see what the polling numbers show.
00:13:55.840 Well, last week we did get some polls.
00:13:57.520 So according to a new poll released by City News, 36 percent of Albertans and a majority of UCP voters want to leave Canada.
00:14:06.960 An Angus Reid poll also found that roughly half the people in both, to your point, Alberta and Saskatchewan would be interested in independence.
00:14:16.420 And so I'm wondering, though, like, I mean, Canada's constitution does allow for provinces to separate.
00:14:24.140 If there's a popular will, there's a formula.
00:14:27.320 Do you think that there really is that type of sentiment enough to push this over?
00:14:33.260 What those polls don't mention, there are other options besides separation, like what the premier is offering.
00:14:40.260 There's several others.
00:14:41.400 And I'm involved with a group that wants to put on what we're calling a Canada West Assembly, where you would get a bunch of representative people from the four provinces, almost like a legislature, and then have these major propositions for what should the West do put in front of that.
00:15:02.300 And subject to cross-examination and debate and everything else.
00:15:07.080 And one of the options certainly would be the secession option.
00:15:11.060 But again, secession to do what?
00:15:13.100 To form an independent country?
00:15:14.520 Maybe that's one option.
00:15:15.960 Secession to form an independent country that would end up in some kind of union with the United States?
00:15:21.280 That's another option.
00:15:22.460 All of those should be put on the table.
00:15:23.980 Too much of this is done in the back rooms and small groups working on it.
00:15:29.720 No, get it out in front of a democratic forum and have those options looked at.
00:15:34.840 And then take some votes as to which ones would be best to recommend to the provincial governments.
00:15:43.180 One of those is the secession one.
00:15:45.600 It's not nearly as simple as people think it is.
00:15:48.700 You could hold one of those referents.
00:15:50.960 Quebec is further along this road than the West is.
00:15:55.040 But suppose you have to have, according to the Clarity Act, you have to have a clear question and a clear majority on it.
00:16:03.760 So let's suppose, let's take Quebec, but it could be the West.
00:16:07.800 You have a question, should Quebec secede from the Canadian Federation and form a new country?
00:16:13.520 Clear question.
00:16:15.320 And then you've got to get a clear majority.
00:16:17.820 And there's a big argument, what's a clear majority, but it's probably 60% plus.
00:16:22.060 But suppose you get it.
00:16:24.060 Suppose you get that.
00:16:25.260 Suppose you get that.
00:16:26.260 What's going to happen then?
00:16:28.160 Is that entity going to secede automatically, get out of the Federation?
00:16:32.020 No.
00:16:32.980 No.
00:16:33.260 What that will trigger is a big federal, provincial, constitutional conference triggered by a crisis and focused on that particular problem.
00:16:44.440 But that's all that that triggers.
00:16:47.220 And then you're basically going to have a debate about whether you can reconfederation.
00:16:52.920 And that would happen whether Quebec does it or whether Alberta does it.
00:16:56.900 It's not simple.
00:16:57.860 And a lot of these people that are advocating that just think it's that simple.
00:17:02.060 That idea should get in front of some people that know what it's all about.
00:17:05.820 And not antagonistic to it, but just say, here, you should understand constitutional law.
00:17:11.060 And it's not as simple as you make it.
00:17:14.560 Right.
00:17:14.940 And so, I mean, just to go back to your op-ed in the Globe and Mail, you predicted that Carney, if he's reelected, might be identified.
00:17:22.740 You said would then be identified in the history books as the last prime minister of United Canada.
00:17:27.240 So presumably you do foresee something like this happening in the next four years.
00:17:31.040 Now, if the federal government responded to some of this, then some of this could be averted.
00:17:37.920 But there's a real skepticism in the West.
00:17:41.580 I mean, Mr. Carney's done a 180-degree turn onā€”he used to be a total champion of climate change.
00:17:49.240 Now that's been put in the background.
00:17:52.120 The Liberal Party was opposed to hydrocarbon energy development, opposed to pipelines, etc.
00:17:58.880 And now he professes to be in favor of these things.
00:18:03.020 Standing behind him at presentā€”he's going to maybe change this tomorrowā€”was a cabinet of 23 people who just three months before were saying exactly the opposite of what he's been saying.
00:18:15.120 So you can forgive Westerners for being pretty skeptical.
00:18:19.340 And they'll be skeptical about the throne speech, too.
00:18:21.360 More words, more words, probably words that try to address it.
00:18:24.920 Where's the action?
00:18:26.120 And that's what the premiers are watching.
00:18:30.360 One of the themes that relates to this isā€”or if I was in the federal government's shoes and wanted to send a signal to the provinces to try to reduce this federal-provincial conflict,
00:18:44.260 which virtually exists with every provincial government, I would introduce an act respecting provincial jurisdiction.
00:18:52.540 And what that act would do is amend the major statutes, the federal statutes, that authorize intervention in areas of provincial jurisdiction, like the Canada Health Act.
00:19:05.000 Health is a provincial responsibility, but the federal government intervenes under the Canada Health Act.
00:19:11.340 Natural resources development, the Constitution's perfectly clear that this is in provincial jurisdiction.
00:19:16.460 But the federal government passes legislation that directly interferes with it.
00:19:21.320 The Impact Assessment Act, the No Pipelines Act, there's half a dozen of them.
00:19:27.960 And then municipal government.
00:19:29.700 The Constitution is perfectly clear.
00:19:31.560 Municipal government and municipalities is a provincial responsibility.
00:19:35.800 The federal government intervenes through the Canada Housing Act and through the Canada Mortgage Bank Act, where the mortgage bank makes big loans to municipalities without even talking to the provincial government.
00:19:48.760 And then the Constitution also says property and civil rights is a provincial responsibility.
00:19:54.780 The federal government intervened in that area through the emergency act, and the courts even mentioned that some of that intervention was unconstitutional.
00:20:05.020 So if the federal government passes statutes like that, pulling back out of those areas by amending the statutes and give it the power to do that,
00:20:11.940 that would be a pretty clear signal to the provinces that the federal government understands the basis of unrest.
00:20:18.380 But more speeches, more press conferences saying we're going to do something, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, I don't think it's going to take some action to remove the skepticism on those points.
00:20:33.520 Well, I think it's granted.
00:20:34.660 I mean, just the recent election that we just fought, I mean, this issue was basically never raised.
00:20:39.120 I don't think I heard anyone put the question to Mark Carney.
00:20:42.180 The focus of the campaign was almost entirely on our relationship with the United States, on President Donald Trump, potential tariffs.
00:20:49.980 If anything, you know, we had two federal debates.
00:20:52.140 One of them was in French, where the entire debate was basically focused on Quebec and how to appease them and how to give them more.
00:20:58.160 And I don't think that Alberta was even mentioned.
00:21:01.160 So, you know, what kind of hope do you have that Mark Carney cares about this?
00:21:05.780 I mean, he doubled down on Bill 69.
00:21:07.380 He said he's not getting rid of it.
00:21:08.500 So, is there any expectation that he will meet any of Daniel Smith's silver report?
00:21:12.580 Well, the skepticism is that he won't.
00:21:14.920 Now, that puts the ball in his court to prove that that's not the case.
00:21:20.320 But the other thing that, again, rankles Westerners, no part of North America has had more experience with populism.
00:21:33.900 Not just populist movements, populist governments, populist movements that became governments than Western Canada.
00:21:43.180 If anybody ought to be able to figure out a strategy of how to deal with Donald Trump, because he's on top of a populist movement.
00:21:50.720 In fact, the whole axis for looking at the political landscape, I think, has changed.
00:21:58.460 The old landscape, it's all left, right, or center.
00:22:02.240 If, where is it left, right, and center?
00:22:03.800 No, that's not the axis anymore.
00:22:06.020 The axis is this way.
00:22:07.700 Bottom-up democratic populist movements versus political parts dominated by aristocratic elites.
00:22:14.540 That's the new axis.
00:22:15.720 And if you want to interpret the American landscape, that's what's happened there.
00:22:21.940 You've got this bottom-up populist movement that put a leader at the top.
00:22:26.340 Whether he's a populist or not, time's going to tell.
00:22:29.920 But he's on top of a populist movement.
00:22:32.040 Well, by Western Canada's experience, how do you get to the leader of a populist movement?
00:22:37.320 Not necessarily, but going to Washington.
00:22:39.560 I mean, maybe there's a place for that.
00:22:41.680 You get to him through his own followers.
00:22:44.120 That's how you get to him.
00:22:46.140 Trump has to pay attention to the people that got him there.
00:22:49.860 And one of the promises he made to the people that got him there was he'd lower their cost of living.
00:22:55.260 Now, what tariffs and counter-tariffs do is increase.
00:22:58.480 It's the consumer that ends up paying in those non-productive tariff wars.
00:23:03.280 So I think there's a way to get to Trump if you want to, say, reduce his policy on tariffs.
00:23:09.800 It's not through counter-tariffs, although you can maybe make a short-term argument for them.
00:23:15.720 It's by getting to his followers.
00:23:17.820 And when Premier Smith went down and got on one of these big American talk shows that's got 30, 40 million followers, that's what she's doing.
00:23:28.840 She's getting to Trump's constituency.
00:23:31.820 And there's going to be senatorial elections in the third of the states in 2026.
00:23:37.020 Canadians ought to be involved in those and get anti-tariff Republicans to get into the Senate.
00:23:45.400 And Western Canada has some wisdom on how you deal with populist movements and populist governments.
00:23:51.700 Central Canada doesn't have the foggiest notion about it.
00:23:54.840 And most of those commentators, I say to political science students, particularly, if your prof is still talking about politics, left, right, center, left, right, center, left, right, center, ask him, does he also think the earth is flat?
00:24:10.600 He's operating in a framework that I think doesn't exist.
00:24:15.040 I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the Oval Office bilateral meeting that we saw last week between President Trump and Mark Carney, because it seems to me that if you're watching online and you saw the commentary from Axe and YouTube, it was very critical of Mark Carney.
00:24:31.380 And it basically said that this guy was out of his league and Trump basically just had him for breakfast.
00:24:36.720 Whereas if you're watching the traditional media, the CBC and others, they were very complimentary of Mark Carney saying that he was sort of masterful playing a game of chess and whatever.
00:24:46.820 My own perspective is that I think Trump kind of humiliated him.
00:24:50.320 Like he gets that Mark Carney is there because of Donald Trump.
00:24:54.440 And like they're sort of denying that.
00:24:55.700 Like Donald Trump came in, he created this huge political problem in Canada, and Mark Carney was seen as the one who could solve it.
00:25:01.120 Mark Carney got elected basically off of bashing Donald Trump.
00:25:05.620 And Trump almost kind of appreciates that.
00:25:07.600 He was having fun with Carney, sort of saying like, you know, this is one of the greatest political comebacks of all time, even better than mine, right?
00:25:14.180 And almost kind of taking credit for the fact that he was there, laughing at the fact that Carney had been bashing him, maybe open to some kind of a discussion or debate.
00:25:22.800 But in my perspective, it seems that Carney was unwilling to make the concessions, right?
00:25:28.120 Like Trump is concerned about the trade imbalance.
00:25:31.740 Carney has no interest in reducing many of our own barriers and our own subsidies and our own sort of supply management issues.
00:25:38.860 And he was more interested in just hitting back like dollar for dollar tariffs and all that kind of stuff.
00:25:42.980 So I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that exchange.
00:25:46.380 Well, for one thing, I find it embarrassing from a Democratic standpoint that an American president can dominate and almost dictate a Canadian election.
00:25:59.500 The fact that there was a fair increase or holding the line on the voter turnout, you know, what does that say about Canadian democracy?
00:26:10.220 That only a threat and statements by an American president can get people to wave the flag and be patriotic?
00:26:20.400 Like what does it, is there not enough in this country, regardless of who the American president is, to be proud of?
00:26:26.660 Is not our economic strength through the resource sector, something that should make you proud?
00:26:32.880 Is not our history, although it gets trashed by the professors at a lot of the universities and teachers?
00:26:39.160 Haven't we got enough to be proud of, regardless of what the president of the United States does?
00:26:45.580 I find that embarrassing and worrisome, that that's what it takes to get Canadians to feel patriotic, act patriotic and wave the flag.
00:26:58.200 I think we've got enough to be proud of, regardless of who the president is.
00:27:03.260 100%.
00:27:03.740 Okay, well, I have one question, just sort of imagining a future independent Western Canada or Alberta.
00:27:09.180 One thing that often gets raised is, say Alberta and Saskatchewan did decide to leave Canada and go it alone, they would be landlocked.
00:27:17.320 And so they potentially would be met by the same kinds of issues where they can't get their product to Tidewater because they would still have to deal with Canada.
00:27:25.880 That's a assumption that this worry is just confined to Alberta and Saskatchewan.
00:27:31.040 It isn't.
00:27:32.900 It's broader.
00:27:33.940 It does go into Manitoba so that you could get access to the Atlantic through a port at Churchill.
00:27:43.020 It's very strong in British Columbia, including in the area that has the deepest deep water port in the country.
00:27:51.560 Like, if you just confine it to those two provinces, yes, you've got this landlocked problem.
00:27:57.440 But if you broaden it out to the entire West, then that goes away.
00:28:02.620 It doesn't go away, but there's ways of meeting it.
00:28:06.140 One of the other challenges, and this is one that a lot of the people that talk about secession haven't addressed,
00:28:11.540 is what will be the status of indigenous groups that have treaty arrangements with the crown and with the federal government under those circumstances?
00:28:21.080 How is that going to be handled?
00:28:22.600 One of the challenges, one of the proposals will be that they be treated as, be given municipal status,
00:28:30.420 but will some of them settle for that?
00:28:34.740 Back in 1995, when people forget that there was a referendum in Quebec that came within 34,000,
00:28:41.380 if 34,000 people out of 4.5 million had changed their minds, you would have had a yes vote for secession from Quebec.
00:28:48.580 And I was a member of parliament at that time.
00:28:50.740 We had representatives from the northern Cree come to our office and say,
00:28:55.980 we don't care what Quebec does.
00:28:58.300 We are under federal jurisdiction.
00:28:59.920 We expect the federal government to continue to deal with us and look after us.
00:29:04.760 And so what would have happened?
00:29:07.060 And some of these people were quite threatening.
00:29:09.980 We can do some real damage to Quebec hydro's towers in our area.
00:29:13.960 Maybe blink the lights in New York was one of the phrases that were used.
00:29:17.560 Maybe that would get some attention to our concern.
00:29:20.840 Wow.
00:29:21.200 There's issues like that that would have to be resolved and not easy.
00:29:26.220 Interesting.
00:29:26.660 And yeah, we are still sort of dealing with those concerns, whereas some of the First Nations in Alberta say you can't do this.
00:29:34.880 Juneau News talked to constitutional lawyers that said that there isn't standing for them to block a citizen's initiative like this.
00:29:41.480 So that's definitely an interesting, outstanding issue.
00:29:44.380 Well, Preston, we always really appreciate your time.
00:29:46.840 Sorry, did you have any final thoughts on that?
00:29:49.760 Well, just on just what you said there, this business is trying to shut up the people that want something different, secession or whatever the options are.
00:29:58.860 I don't think that's a democratic way either.
00:30:01.460 I think the democratic way is let them put that position together.
00:30:06.060 There's about 10 groups working on this in the behind and they're not unified.
00:30:11.340 Let them get their position together and let them get it out in front of the public and let the public have a kick at it.
00:30:18.300 I think by suppressing the talk about these things, you do more damage than getting them out and having a genuine political discourse.
00:30:25.460 And if this assembly we're talking about comes about, one of the things we're hoping is to demonstrate, maybe for a week or 10 days, what genuine democratic discourse is about.
00:30:39.080 It doesn't occur in the legislatures now that are just partisan, divided.
00:30:44.260 It certainly doesn't occur in the Parliament of Canada, and I know about that.
00:30:47.180 But can we not, for 10 days, have people present positions clearly and they're listened to?
00:30:55.680 Can we not have them cross-examined by asking questions and getting answers?
00:31:01.740 Can those people not be obliged to listen to other people?
00:31:05.040 We're going to listen to you, but you've got to listen to something else.
00:31:07.660 And can you not take some votes at the end that indicate how much support there is for a particular proposition?
00:31:12.940 Where today is there genuine democratic discourse?
00:31:18.540 Hopefully, maybe this assembly can demonstrate it and demonstrate it on an issue of the future position of the West in the federation.
00:31:27.540 Well, it's so interesting, Preston Manning.
00:31:29.380 Thank you so much for your time, your insights.
00:31:31.200 We're really looking forward to, I hope that comes to fruition, and maybe we will have some real debate and real democratic discussions in this country.
00:31:39.520 Thank you so much for everything.
00:31:40.940 Well, thank you for having me.
00:31:42.940 All right, folks, that's all the time we have for today.
00:31:44.660 Thank you so much for tuning in.
00:31:46.120 I'm Candace Malcolm.
00:31:46.660 This is the Candace Malcolm Show.
00:31:47.540 Thank you and God bless.
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