00:00:00.000Welcome to the Candace Malcolm Show. My name is Chris Sims. I'm the Alberta Director for the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. I'm filling in for Candace this week. We have got a different sort of show for you today. Today is Thursday, September the 11th, and it's usually a very solemn day of reflection for many people. Today that's especially poignant because something horrible was done in the United States yesterday.
00:00:30.460Charlie Kirk, the founder of Turning Point USA, was shot and killed while he was on stage at a campus at a university in Utah. The reason why this is so important to talk about here on this show, on Candace Malcolm's show on Juno News, and on behalf of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, is that Charlie Kirk was different.
00:00:55.760He wasn't what you would imagine to be a stereotypical, you know, commentator online that is, you know, owning people and destroying people in quick clips. He had his strong views, of course, as many of us do.
00:01:11.520But Kirk did the work. He started when he was 17 years old. One of my former colleagues at Sun News Network, who is now a producer for Glenn Beck, shared this online last night.
00:01:26.980And it's a tweet from back in 2011. So that would have been right in the middle of Sun News Network. And it was a tweet from one Charlie Kirk to then Glenn Beck, asking, saying, I'm a high school student. Here I am. I'm 17.
00:01:43.200And how do I fight debt and deficits? And how do I push back against bias? So he started very young. And he started Turning Point USA when he was 18 years old. And what was different about Kirk is that he did the work like he went from campus to campus to campus, speaking to people all the time, having those difficult conversations all the time.
00:02:11.920And I got to say, in the advocacy world, you know, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, we're an advocacy organization. We were started in 1990. We have a youth wing called Generation Screwed, which sets up booths and does tabling at campuses across Canada. And we have conversations about things like free speech, and about things like the government not taxing you so hard that you can't afford a house, that you can't afford to heat the house, that you can't afford to drop it.
00:02:41.920Or buy food. Sometimes those conversations can get pretty heated. Amplify that by the amplification that is the United States of America. And you can get a strong sense of what it was like at those campus meetings, year after year after year.
00:03:01.360And I got to say, as someone who kind of works in that ecosystem, getting out there at the grassroots level, you're missing stuff at home, you're on the road a lot, you're setting up the booth, you're putting up the banners, you're stacking the books, you're making sure the mic works, like you're having those in-person conversations all the time.
00:03:21.220And we have a compilation here that shows, generally, how Charlie Kirk talked to young people. Let's watch.
00:03:51.220Because Kamala Harris and Joe Biden have spent $6 to $7 trillion of unnecessary federal spending, which have inflated asset prices. As a liberal, I imagine you don't like war, right? Under Donald Trump, it was the first president in 40 years where he had no new wars. So which way are you leaning?
00:04:10.220Everybody, do me a favor. Please be respectful, okay? Tell me more about how you view politics. Is that okay? Or if not, feel free to walk away.
00:04:24.540Archer, thank you for coming up, and I hope you have a great day.
00:04:26.540Thank you so much. Thank you for clarifying.
00:04:27.520And let me just say one last thing. I could tell you probably have a negative impression of Christianity, maybe. I hope one day we can earn back your support. I'm sorry if the church has failed you in that way.
00:04:37.400I do appreciate the candor and the courage to come up here, but we will pray for you. Thank you.
00:04:42.960I go around universities and have challenging conversations because that's what is so important to our country is to find our disagreements respectfully because when people stop talking, that's when violence happens.
00:04:57.380He really said it right there. And the response, so folks know we're not showing the footage, so don't worry about that.
00:05:04.320You can keep watching this show, and you're not going to get surprised with that.
00:05:09.000He really said it there. And after what happened happened, you could see statement after statement coming out from everyone.
00:05:19.760We saw opposition leader Pierre Pauliev come out right away condemning this act of violence.
00:05:27.800We saw Premier Wob Canu talking about this.
00:05:31.140Stateside, we had everybody from U.S. President Donald Trump to Gavin Newsom, Barack Obama, talking about this.
00:05:39.000So, Kirk did so much grassroots kind of sign up and get out there activism that he's wound up touching a lot of normal people and getting them engaged in politics.
00:05:54.120Now, you cannot want to, you know, sign up for the Republicans.
00:05:58.000That's obviously not what this is about.
00:05:59.480This was about someone who was using his voice in order to have conversations with young people and get them engaged.
00:06:07.560And you could picture someone who's trying to do it for a different party or for a different purpose, who's out there, microphone in hand, freedom T-shirt on, speaking to a crowd.
00:06:19.420And I think this is why this is affecting so many people.
00:06:22.880We're going to be speaking with a young person about this very soon.
00:06:26.700But I will share that a lot of, I would say, teenagers, so folks who are in grade 12 and up into the first years of university, this gentleman, Charlie Kirk, and his group, Turning Point, he's had a lot of influence on a lot of people.
00:06:45.540We can see here there's a message from a gentleman in the United States who said that Charlie Kirk changed my life.
00:06:50.760I was 14 years old when I was trying to make a difference, and he reached out to me and, you know, treated me as an equal.
00:06:58.840And I went to all of his different events, and he said that I think he eventually said that he had known Charlie Kirk for, I think, a third of his life because he's a really young person.
00:07:08.080There's another that shows this is my favorite time where we were building the headquarters together back seven years ago.
00:07:14.520So the reason why I wanted to highlight this is because quite often in this circle, in this ecosystem, we're asking people to stand up and be heard.
00:07:27.780And it's really important that folks stay hopeful, stay very positive.
00:07:32.980And I would advise, turn the temperature down.
00:07:38.380Like, think about what you're going to post.
00:07:41.020Think about what you're going to tweet.
00:07:43.780Do your best to have a very civil dialogue, even if the person opposing you votes differently or has a different opinion.
00:07:53.360And I just wanted to encourage, especially the young people out there, that they can keep soldiering on to get a better perspective of how Charlie Kirk and his organization, so that kind of grassroots ground game activism, affects young people on both sides of the border when it comes to fighting for things like even debt and deficit.
00:08:16.420You saw that first tweet from Charlie Kirk, you know, talking about things like that is our bread and butter, who's talking about accountable government, who's talking about getting rid of censorship and having free speech so that we can hold government to better account.
00:08:31.460To get a better sense of how this is rippling through the young community, let's find out now.
00:09:03.140Everybody's trying to have those really engaging conversations.
00:09:06.340And on the way home from the conference, I had my teenager with me, and I asked, what's your most influential political, like, leader who, like, you know, you think of when you think of something inspiring outside of Alberta?
00:09:33.280It did hit me really hard when this happened, because I think that you couldn't say anything more than that Charlie Kirk was a deeply decent man.
00:09:41.200And I think what really made him, like, a powerful person is that before politics and before everything, the man loved God first.
00:09:48.900And so that drove the way that he did everything.
00:09:53.020And when you're at a conference like we were at a few days ago, this was just a Canada Strong and Free Network.
00:09:59.580It wasn't a TPUSA event, but everything felt like it was kind of influenced by Charlie Kirk.
00:10:05.940Because so many ways that we do things in Canadian politics, in American politics, is based off of things that Charlie Kirk had just been pioneering over the past few years, which was direct conversation, direct grassroots organizing, you know, an opposition to radicalism.
00:10:25.160And I think, like a lot of young people, even though I was never somebody who met him in real life, even things I do on my own show, I'd taken from things that Charlie Kirk had done, like, I'd gotten inspiration from the way that he had done a lot of political organizing on the ground, tried to engage people, not just wanting people to, you know, watch content, but also go out there and then get involved themselves.
00:10:51.400So, yeah, it's going to be sort of trite to say, because I think a lot of people are going to keep saying it, but I think it's right that it's going to be a big void left for people to fill, considering all the work he had done that I don't think can be easily replicated.
00:11:11.080Well, in the intro, we were showing just some of the very personal expressions online that I found on X and other people were seeing on X, and just young person after young person after young person saying something along the lines of,
00:11:24.860I was just a, you know, grade 12 high school kid who wanted to make a difference in my community and I started doing videos and this guy, Charlie Kirk, reached out to me and helped me get a grassroots thing going and actually roll my sleeves up and do it and organize it and do it earnestly.
00:11:41.880And, like, people who have no followers were getting contacts like this and do you think that he kind of set himself apart in the sense that there's a lot of commentators that are online?
00:11:53.840I realize I'm one of those people doing one of those things right now, but there's, I find that there's a difference between those who are kind of closed into the studio, always talking on camera, versus those who also get out there.
00:12:09.500They're driving the vehicles, they're setting up the banners, they're setting up the booths, they've got a stack of books, they've got a microphone in their hand.
00:12:16.500Do you think he really set himself apart in that way?
00:12:19.120I think he sacrificed a lot of, like, in terms of his time and even, to a certain extent, his popularity, and it's hard to underestimate how popular he was, but in the sense that he would use his show in order to drive change, in the sense that he was not trying to get people to watch, to say the flashiest thing, to have, you know, the hottest take.
00:12:43.120It was, at the end of the day, that you have to get involved too, that you can't sit back and just consume politics as entertainment, that at the end of the day, you need to go out there and actually create social change yourself.
00:12:55.020And I think that a great example of how you do that is, yes, reaching out to people who nobody knows who they are and maybe probably doesn't have a lot of people paying attention to them,
00:13:04.220but he would recognize talent or even recognize even just the potential for real talent at something and want to take away his time.
00:13:11.380He could be doing something else. He could be making money. He could be trying to, you know, make more of a figure of himself, and he would go and try and make a figure of somebody much smaller.
00:13:20.080That's really well put. What is it in particular about Charlie Kirk's approach that appeals to young people?
00:13:29.180Because I know that there's just so many young people.
00:13:32.560So at the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, we have a youth wing called Generation Screwed, and they go to campuses, like they're directly talking to other students all the time.
00:13:41.200They're doing their tabling, as they call it, always reaching out because we have a message of low taxes, less waste, accountable government, small government, right?
00:13:48.500What was it about Kirk's approach that you think attracted so many young people to it?
00:13:54.980Was it because he was so enthusiastic and he was giving them the tools in their hands, or what was it, do you think?
00:14:00.820It was definitely the enthusiasm. He was a positive figure.
00:14:05.060And I think what also got a lot of people into politics or at least directly into campaigning was just the actual change they could see him making.
00:14:14.640Because obviously young people do want to make positive change in the world.
00:14:20.660And I think they also saw somebody doing it who wasn't a firebrand, was a decent person, who would, again, go out of his way to help other people.
00:14:33.660And so it wasn't somebody you're looking at who seems politically cynical.
00:14:38.080He was the furthest thing from a cynic.
00:14:40.300And I think that that's what a lot of people were attracted by.
00:14:43.300It wasn't what happens a lot in politics today that of naysaying and trying to, like, mock other people or trying to simply win for the sake of it.
00:14:56.140Yeah, I don't recall many, you know, video thumbnails of destroys or, you know, things like that in the same way that I see with other commentators, both on the right and the left.
00:15:11.240It's difficult because he was clearly one of those folks that we want more of.
00:15:18.340We want more people respectfully speaking with others across the aisle, so to speak, talking about difficult subjects.
00:15:25.840OK, just it's such a muted Canadian example compared to what's going on in the States.
00:15:31.360But for the longest time, even talking about the carbon tax in Canada, I mean, I was screamed at and called a climate change denier and a monster.
00:15:39.060And you want people to burn in their homes like things can get kind of nuts out there when you're actually there advocating and speaking with a microphone in your hand.
00:15:47.420But where do you see this going for especially for young people, because I didn't want to dominate the conversation with just my generation and older because I really sensed the loss for your generation.
00:16:02.660Where do you see this going for kind of the youth movement, for a smaller government, more freedom?
00:16:07.520I wouldn't be able to predict exactly where it's going to go, but I think where I'd like to see it go is that in the wake of this, that a lot of people would want to step up and kind of become Charlie Kirk as well.
00:16:21.220And in the sense of not being, you know, being scared into doing what's right, but just following the model of somebody who would always do what was right, no matter what.
00:16:31.420And I think that that's something that that people can't assume that now it's something's over rather than you can do it, too, that there was somebody who proved that it was possible.
00:16:40.600So that means you can absolutely follow the model.
00:16:44.580What did you think about the wide response to this?
00:16:47.780I know, like, in my own circles, of course, people were upset and shocked and talking about it a lot.
00:16:53.840But it wasn't too soon before, like, we saw Boris Johnson commenting on this.
00:16:58.240Barack Obama came out and talked about this.
00:17:00.700Wob Canu came out with a video statement about this.
00:17:03.400Like, he really seems to have affected a lot of people.
00:17:07.680And the thing is, like, naturally, you're not expecting people in high positions to have anything negative to say.
00:17:15.080But at the same time, I think that you're going to say, especially when it comes to Charlie Kirk, again, going back to his decency, that I don't think anyone could disagree about his actual virtue.
00:17:25.480You can disagree with his particular policy solutions at times if you want.
00:17:30.320But there was never an edge to him where he was too, you know, he was too nasty to engage with in some way.
00:17:39.280Even Gavin Newsom, when he wanted to pick somebody from the other side to do a podcast with to discuss issues, he chose Charlie Kirk for a reason.
00:17:47.740It's because Charlie Kirk is not there to hit him with a gotcha.
00:17:51.840You know, he believes maybe someone like Newsom is wrong, but he's there to talk with him and discuss the issues and try and bring him to his side.
00:18:01.200And even if you have actually seen Gavin Newsom since then, in a lot of ways, he's actually had to moderate on positions post talking to Charlie Kirk.
00:18:34.900Very good to hear from someone in their 20s talking about how this affects them going forward.
00:18:40.360And for being out in the field, it doesn't really get more grassrootsy, like we were pointing out, than something like the Turning Point USA organization.
00:18:52.300There's others, of course, that do, you know, a lot of leadership training in that in the United States.
00:18:57.220And there's those of us who do things like this on this side of the border in Canada.
00:19:01.000And one of the gentlemen that really helps make that happen, who is with, you know, he was with Preston Manning.
00:19:32.440He is the president for the Manning Foundation for Democratic Education, a longtime friend of mine.
00:19:39.440Troy hired me, along with my other boss, to be a director at the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.
00:19:45.820And you don't usually do a lot of on-camera interviews anymore, Troy, because you're so busy in the background.
00:19:50.480But with what has been done in the United States, I reached out to you last night and wanted you to talk about this because you started standing at booths talking to young people, like handing out the pamphlets and pounding the pavement.
00:20:37.320And I often try to end my interviews or my podcast shows or any of my speeches that I do, mic and hand on stage, with get out there, get active, speak to your neighbors, tell 10 friends.
00:20:54.840And so when I saw what was done yesterday, it hit pretty hard.
00:21:00.320I wanted to pull up this tweet again one more time because it hits so close to home.
00:21:04.880This is from 2011, and it's from a 17-year-old, Charlie Kirk, reaching out to who was then a huge media star and still is in the alternative media, Glenn Beck.
00:21:16.080And he says, I'm concerned about debt and deficit.
00:21:21.040And he wanted to know how he got out there and would fight.
00:21:41.300I mean, and I think it hit home, you know, personally to me and to you and to many others we know, Chris, because sometimes we think if something terrible like that happens, it's a politician.
00:21:53.880But this is someone who was in civil society.
00:21:58.320It was someone who was out there doing political advocacy who chose not to be a partisan.
00:22:04.560So it just made you think that much deeper.
00:22:07.540And, you know, I was talking about and thinking about all of the years out on college campuses, university campuses.
00:22:19.500You would never think or comprehend that something like this would happen.
00:22:24.620You know, free expression, exchanging ideas in the arena of ideas is at the heart of liberal democracy.
00:22:32.860And so no matter what side of the fence you are, this event pierces at that.
00:22:38.880It pierces at the very essence of what we take for granted, I think it's fair to say, in this country, in the United States and in the Western world, the right to be able to exchange ideas freely.
00:22:51.800In that, you know, in public, online, in written words, on doing shows like this.
00:23:02.520And so it's, I think it's obviously a sad day, I think, for those of us that do this kind of work.
00:23:10.680But obviously, too, for a family, a man of just 31 years old with two young children under the age of five.
00:23:18.200I mean, obviously, that's very personal for those of us that are parents, too.
00:25:33.920I saw him once he was on a podcast with women in the pornography industry and talking to them about the importance of monogamy and relationships and religion and things.
00:25:47.260He was everywhere and he reveled in it and he was good at it.
00:25:57.740I'm told Turning Point had a budget of over 90 million dollars.
00:26:01.440Now, I can tell you, as someone who has built organizations, whether it was the one we worked with, Chris, or the ones I work with now, building an empire that size is absolutely a remarkable success.
00:26:12.380So I just wanted to acknowledge that now.
00:26:29.560And I just don't know that that's the case.
00:26:31.940I think we are living in such an amped up time with our politics and with our rhetoric that even something as simple yesterday as a moment of silence in the U.S. Congress.
00:27:33.000I will say to your point with the way that Charlie Kirk built his empire and how he worked, it's, it's, it's my kids' generation who, who watch him all the time.
00:27:43.720Like deeply influential for high schoolers and a little bit up.
00:27:47.900Um, and so, but when I would tune in, cause I want to see what they're watching, right.
00:27:52.160Um, what struck me was his Socratic method with people who clearly wouldn't vote the way he votes.
00:28:33.120Let's talk about something we can both agree on.
00:28:36.020And then you start doing baby steps from there.
00:28:38.920And I, I notice like probably not every single interaction, but many of the interactions I watched on those videos, he would do that of let's unpack this as the Socratic method of why do you think that and what's next and what's next.
00:28:53.460And it was, it was remarkable because sometimes they'd come in hot.
00:28:57.140Like those would be kind of a hostile thing.
00:28:59.480I think the tent said, you know, prove me wrong.
00:29:21.420I'm aging myself a bit, but you remember William F. Buckley in the 1960s used to go around to university campuses, but William F. Buckley didn't have X and social media.
00:29:32.080So did Ayn Rand, actually, one of our other favorites.
00:29:34.280So, um, in some ways he's the, when you talk about young people today who wouldn't know who William F. Buckley is, but they know who Charlie Kirk is.
00:29:42.800In some ways he's a reflection of the times that way.
00:29:45.940Um, but I think, you know, it's, it's been a good contribution and the fighting to make sure that, you know, university campuses are bastions of ideas and exchanges of, of, um, open debate, um, is very important.
00:30:00.060So, yeah, I think in that spirit, something will continue what that looks like.
00:30:04.340We don't know, but obviously he was a significant figure in that work, um, in that work going forward.
00:30:09.660Um, I, you know, I have to say, um, I, I, I go back to the 1980s, um, back to the 80s and 90s.
00:30:23.300We used to look each other in the eyes more.
00:30:27.020There's something, a dynamic that changes.
00:30:29.400Even if you disagree with someone, if you can look them in the eyes and sit across from them, that relationship is so much different.
00:30:35.780Then today, what I fear is hiding behind the internet, hiding behind your keyboard.
00:30:42.420And it's just so much easier to get amped up with the language and the accusations of people you may disagree with and actual hatred of people that you've never looked at or sat beside or had lunch with, or even talked to, for goodness sakes.
00:31:00.000Um, you know, back then you could find people that were completely nuts or way out to lunch, but there was never a critical mass of them, right?
00:31:08.860Now you can go online and find, you can so easily radicalize yourself.
00:31:14.880Um, again, I, I don't know that there's a, this is the world we live in, but boy, it's, um, it's not good.
00:31:42.560And, um, it, I, it was remarkable to see quite quickly, um, statements coming out from not only U.S. President Donald Trump, but former U.S. President Barack Obama, former U.S. President Joe Biden,
00:31:55.060Gavin Newsom, Boris Johnson, Wob Canoe, Daniel Smith, like it was very quick to have people say, whoa, whoa, like, let's not do this.
00:32:10.960Um, I wanted to ask you, so at the, at the Manning Foundation, like, so for folks who don't know, it's named after Preston Manning, the former, the founder of the Reform Party, of course.
00:32:22.980And you guys do so much direct work with young people.
00:32:26.720Uh, I know we were just, uh, pushing the fact that you guys have an essay contest, like an entry contest for, for undergrad students.
00:32:34.080Like, this is how directly groups like yours are involved with young people of exactly this age group.
00:32:41.140Um, what are you hearing, um, that is inspiring young people right now?
00:32:46.860Are, are they fighting for things like owning a home?
00:32:49.120It was interesting right off the top of the show, we played a clip of Charlie Kirk saying, do you care about being able to ever own a house?