The Candice Malcolm Show - Rupa Subramanya joins True North!

00:00:00.000 True North continues to knock it out of the park. We have doubled in size over the past year. We now

00:00:04.620 reach over 10 million Canadians each and every month across our platforms. Our stories are being

00:00:09.560 picked up by our competitors in the legacy media. We're having a real influence on politics and

00:00:14.860 public policy in this country and we're helping to shape the political culture in Canada. Today

00:00:20.300 I'm very excited to share some big news with our audience. I'm Candice Malcolm and this is The

00:00:24.660 Candice Malcolm Show. Everyone thank you so much for tuning in. So today I am delighted to announce

00:00:41.960 that True North has hired one of the brightest journalists in the country, a rising star in

00:00:47.100 conservative political circles. I'm proud to announce that Rupa Subramania will be joining

00:00:51.540 True North as a columnist and a podcast host and Rupa joins me on the show today. So Rupa,

00:00:57.620 thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much, Candice. I'm truly excited to be part of the

00:01:03.360 True North Center team and I'm really excited about my show and I have lots of good things coming up,

00:01:11.180 lots of great topics and ideas and guests and I'm really looking forward to tackling the important

00:01:17.340 issues of the day that matter to us as Canadians and hopefully issues that nobody in the mainstream

00:01:25.260 media wants to touch or they give short shrift to these ideas and I hope to take them on head on and

00:01:31.360 have meaningful discussions with my guests and so I'm really, really excited about this.

00:01:37.920 Well, we feel very lucky to have you and it's been great to connect with you over the past few months.

00:01:42.540 For people who aren't completely familiar with you, Rupa is also a columnist over at the National

00:01:47.880 Post. She's written for the Wall Street Journal, Foreign Policy Magazine. She's a distinguished fellow

00:01:52.560 with the Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada. Rupa, you live in Ottawa and I think a lot of Canadians

00:01:57.360 came to know you and came to see your journalism firsthand during the trucker convoy because you were

00:02:03.640 doing something that your colleagues in the media failed to do which was just go out and talk to the

00:02:08.120 truckers and get to know them and try to understand what was motivating them and what they were there

00:02:12.440 for and what it was all about and it seemed really like basic, basic journalism but no one else was

00:02:18.540 willing to do it. Instead, they were all too happy to just sort of parrot Justin Trudeau's

00:02:22.800 dismissals of the truckers and his criticisms of them. You know, some of the most interesting things

00:02:29.920 that we heard was that, oh, these truckers are a bunch of racist white supremacists and here you are 0.91

00:02:35.480 as an Indian woman and you said that you felt safe and comfortable and that people were nice and kind 0.98

00:02:40.560 and welcoming. You didn't see any of those kind of attitudes that the media were trying to tell us

00:02:44.360 about the truckers. So you really did outstanding work. I'm wondering if you could just sort of tell

00:02:49.840 us about why you approached the trucker convoy so differently than everybody else in the media or so

00:02:56.300 many other people in the media in Ottawa. Well, several different things. So I approached it as a

00:03:01.940 resident of the city, as someone who was just very curious about what was happening in my neighborhood

00:03:07.000 and I had heard about the convoy before it even arrived. I'd heard about, you know, I'd read about

00:03:14.700 some of the key players and that and what Justin Trudeau said about the unvaccinated and the protesters.

00:03:21.440 So I was aware of all of this, the narrative that was already in place before the protesters even showed

00:03:27.300 up and I was just really intellectually curious to see what was happening in Ottawa. So I walked around

00:03:32.700 and I spent about eight or nine hours that day in the bitter cold and I saw something

00:03:40.580 extraordinary. I saw people, you know, it was people of different backgrounds. It was like Canada Day

00:03:48.520 in the winter. It felt like a winter carnival. And I, you know, I saw some diversity in the crowds as

00:03:57.100 well. And it was just a very, very, you know, it was a joy. It was, it was joyous. This, it was,

00:04:06.080 it was almost cathartic for a lot of people to be there. People who, you know, we've been under,

00:04:11.080 we'd been under a lockdown for two years, under restrictions for two years where, you know,

00:04:15.300 many of us couldn't even see our loved ones. And suddenly there was this explosion of emotions

00:04:21.900 right here in the nation's capital and that too, in some very, very cold conditions. And that to me

00:04:29.440 indicated that, you know, people were there because they were really committed to the cause.

00:04:34.960 They were really dedicated to it and they really believed in it and they were willing to spend

00:04:38.820 hours on end to make their voices heard. And by, by the end of that, I, you know, I, I came home and I,

00:04:46.560 you know, I, and I, and I tweeted saying, you know, I think the elites in this country, the political

00:04:51.460 establishment, the media establishment have really misjudged what is happening here. This is much

00:04:55.840 bigger than anything anyone expected. It was bigger than anything I had expected. So for me, it was

00:05:01.200 an eye-opening experience. And, and also what was interesting was that, that first weekend, I got a lot

00:05:09.140 of messages from some, some of my journalist friends who work for very well-known publications,

00:05:14.520 including the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, and they were, they,

00:05:19.440 they were trying to understand what was happening in Ottawa. They asked me, why is there no actual

00:05:25.860 on-the-ground reportage of what is happening in Ottawa? It seems pretty big, but all we keep hearing

00:05:30.980 is that there are a bunch of white supremacists and they're being caricatured. Where are the stories?

00:05:35.660 Where's the actual on-the-ground reportage? And, and I was, you know, really struck by that question

00:05:41.680 because everything that we had, uh, that was being reported on, if you can even call it, that was

00:05:47.600 just someone's opinion, you know, or just, uh, uh, just, just talking from, uh, just directly from

00:05:54.860 the, uh, Justin Trudeau's talking points. And, but yet there were all of these people with very

00:06:01.520 interesting stories that come, uh, they, they, they, they driven long hours to get to the city.

00:06:06.440 Um, they were there in the cold. They were, uh, and keep in mind that, um, Ottawa was still under a

00:06:13.140 semi-lockdown at that point. And by the end of the first weekend, the Rideau Center closed, there were

00:06:18.880 no washroom facilities anywhere. Uh, you know, people literally were just out there all day. Uh, you

00:06:24.960 couldn't eat anywhere. You couldn't grab, uh, you know, the only two things that were open were the

00:06:30.420 McDonald's and the Tim Hortons. So there was really nothing you could do except be there to make your

00:06:35.260 voice heard. And, um, and so, you know, it just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And I felt

00:06:42.340 that the best way to tackle, so I started tweeting the best way to tackle this corrosive narrative.

00:06:47.820 And I really thought it was a very corrosive narrative that was, that was, that was, uh, being pushed by,

00:06:53.340 uh, you know, some, some important journalists and large sections of the media. And of course,

00:06:58.380 the, the political establishment as well is that I thought I would tackle it in a humorous way. I'd be,

00:07:04.220 you know, that I wanted to be sarcastic about it because there was no other way of taking it on.

00:07:08.700 Um, you know, I couldn't be serious about it. I just had to be, I had to, you know, mock the

00:07:14.500 situation and that's exactly what I did. So here I am a person of color. I'm walking around,

00:07:19.220 you know, and I'm walking in the badlands of Ottawa. That's, that's how I, um, described Ottawa

00:07:24.800 to my, to my, uh, you know, while tweeting and that here I was being mobbed by people wanting

00:07:30.480 to give me a hug and they were handing out food and I felt very threatened. And, uh, and I was just

00:07:36.000 being, you know, ironic about the whole situation. And, uh, and at first I think people were a little

00:07:41.160 confused because sarcasm doesn't always translate well on, on social media. Uh, but then people started

00:07:46.820 to get an idea of where I was coming from. You know, I said, wow, you know, this is, you know,

00:07:50.580 I'm, I'm really, um, stunned by this, but you know, you know, you know, first people from Montreal

00:07:55.560 are coming to Ottawa to party. And that's exactly what was happening. Um, uh, Ottawa became, um,

00:08:01.600 this destination to, to party, but at the same time, you, you, you, you know, you were also protesting.

00:08:06.540 You were also exercising your right to civil disobedience. And, uh, um, and, and so all of those

00:08:12.780 things were happening. So I, my tweets got a lot of traction. I think it resonated with a lot of

00:08:17.660 people because, you know, I was, I was saying something, something that was different. It felt

00:08:22.380 like I was in an alternate reality from, from what was being reported on by large sections of the

00:08:27.020 media. I, uh, um, you know, what I was experiencing there was completely at odds with, at odds with what

00:08:33.560 was being reported. And, and that was the reaction of many of the protesters themselves. You know,

00:08:38.420 they, you know, they, they tune into, um, your, you know, whatever it was, the CBC, the CTV,

00:08:45.340 CTV, and, uh, and, and they would, they would, they would find that the reporting of it was, uh,

00:08:50.980 at complete odds with what they'd experienced, especially this, this was especially a strong

00:08:55.220 feeling among people of color that I had interviewed. You know, they couldn't believe that

00:08:59.300 they were, um, somehow, you know, that, that they were being, uh, that it was the, that they were

00:09:04.640 being told that they were part of some white supremacist movement when, when, you know,

00:09:08.400 they experienced something totally different. Um, so I felt that I felt at that point and I've

00:09:13.540 been, I, you know, I've tracked media propaganda for a very long time in various countries. I knew

00:09:18.060 exactly what was going on here. And, um, I knew, I knew that this, you know, what was happening here

00:09:23.620 was rather insidious and I wanted to, um, you know, put a, put a correction to it. And, uh, and that's

00:09:32.920 exactly, I think what I did by, by tweeting about it. And then I was asked to write about it and,

00:09:38.000 uh, and I'm glad I did because I think that was an important contribution to what was being said out

00:09:42.400 there and, uh, um, and, and it challenged that, that, that, uh, that narrative, uh, I think in a

00:09:50.420 substantial way. And I was happy to play my, my, my role in that.

00:09:54.520 Well, good for you. And absolutely that, that piece that you wrote for Barry Weiss and her

00:09:58.300 sub stack, uh, was absolutely must read, uh, essential reading for anyone who wanted to really

00:10:04.540 understand the trucker convoy. And I've said this on the show before, but the photographs that

00:10:08.780 accompanied your piece were just absolutely stunning and beautiful. And I think that the

00:10:12.960 whole thing was incredibly well done. Uh, well, Rupa, I, I, I wonder, because to me, the, I am

00:10:19.380 similar. I've been monitoring the, uh, Canadian media, uh, for a very long time and I've had criticisms

00:10:25.960 about them for a very long time. It seems to me that every time there's new, new story or a new

00:10:30.960 narrative that comes up, they sort of ratchet it up more and more. And the trucker convoy was like

00:10:36.720 peak Laurentian elite biased media. Like they had no interest in telling the story. They only had an

00:10:42.560 interest in pushing the narrative that they, that they previously decided on. And, and, and to so many

00:10:47.660 people, to your point that that was a turning point for them because they saw on social media or

00:10:52.220 with their own eyes in Ottawa, what was happening. And then you juxtapose that with the very, very

00:10:58.460 inflammatory things the prime minister was saying, which was being backed up by a very, sorry, uh,

00:11:03.640 loyal servitude press. And, and, and it was really quite something. I, I want to ask you though,

00:11:10.420 you know, you, you, you sort of work, you sort of have a foot in both, um, uh, in both ponds with

00:11:15.860 independent media now and, uh, legacy media and you're a freelance journalist and you've written for

00:11:20.940 all of these incredibly prestigious publications. Um, so what, what, what are your thoughts on the

00:11:26.420 current, uh, legacy media and what do you think about the sort of new upstart, um, environment

00:11:31.320 where there's a whole bunch of new sort of either independent people doing subsects like Barry Weiss

00:11:36.200 or in, uh, independent media organizations that, that stay removed from government, uh, like True

00:11:41.180 North. I think it's a very exciting time to be an independent voice, uh, because I think the

00:11:47.080 public is starting to see, um, the, the, uh, you know, they're starting to see what, what's happening.

00:11:53.480 Uh, and I have these conversations with a range of different people, um, um, who were, uh, you know,

00:11:59.900 they, they wouldn't, um, they would only believe what was said on the CBC or, or, or, or, or on a

00:12:05.940 mainstream, uh, outlet. And that's starting to change. They're starting to see what is going on here

00:12:12.240 because some of some, some of what is being said is at complete odds with what they themselves are

00:12:17.280 experiencing, just like with the protesters at the freedom convoy. And even if you were not here

00:12:22.580 protesting, um, a lot of people sought through the propaganda and, and started questioning it. Um,

00:12:30.280 and I'm, I'm seeing, so I think this is a very exciting time for independent voices to make their

00:12:34.900 mark. Um, um, and, um, and as far as the legacy media is concerned, as far as the established media is

00:12:41.680 concerned, I think, um, I think they're going to have to, uh, start taking note. Uh, you know,

00:12:47.480 my piece for Barry Wise probably resonated more than anything that was written in, uh, in the Canadian

00:12:54.560 media, in Canadian media. I, I, I, I think it was, um, um, um, there's a space for that, for that,

00:13:01.100 for that kind of reportage. There's clearly a market for that kind of reportage. Uh, uh, there's a market

00:13:06.460 for alternate opinions, I think. Um, and like I mentioned, the public is just very, uh,

00:13:11.480 starting to see through this and, uh, and, uh, and our craving for something that is different.

00:13:15.500 Um, and, uh, and I think, uh, and I think the mainstream media justifiably feels very threatened

00:13:22.420 by what is happening in the independent media space. Uh, and, and just as well, you know,

00:13:26.960 because I think competition is good. Uh, I think, uh, plurality of, uh, different voices is better than

00:13:33.000 just one, uh, uh, hegemonic, um, uh, narrative that is in place thanks to, um, you know, state-funded,

00:13:40.020 uh, media organizations. I think it's very important, um, what, uh, independent media is

00:13:45.740 doing, and I'm so grateful for, uh, the True North Center, uh, and, um, media outlets, um, like

00:13:52.920 the True North Center for what they're doing, because if not for them, uh, you, you, you'd just

00:13:57.160 be fed on this constant, you, uh, you know, it's constant propaganda and, uh, it's, it's not entirely

00:14:03.400 a hundred percent propaganda. Of course, there's some genuine bona fide reporting from the mainstream

00:14:08.120 media establishment. It's just that when it, I've, I've noticed that when it comes to polarizing

00:14:12.840 issues, whether it is reporting on the COVID-19 pandemic or is, or it's the protests, um, there

00:14:19.300 seems to be an agenda at play and, uh, and it's a clear agenda, uh, at work that wants to project a

00:14:26.980 certain kind of narrative. And, uh, and that is where it gets very problematic for me. Um, I, and

00:14:33.060 the media is a large space. Let me put, let me make that very clear. I write for the National Post.

00:14:37.320 They're incredibly supportive, uh, of my opinions. They're, um, you know, I, I, you know, I have a great

00:14:42.260 platform with them. And so it's not, so, you know, when I, when I say the media, you know, we, we have to be

00:14:48.640 very careful because there are, there are players in the, in the mainstream media establishment like

00:14:53.500 the National Post, for example, that do, um, good work. And I'm not just saying that because I write

00:14:59.040 for them, but I genuinely feel that they're the only ones who, uh, give me a voice, uh, give me a

00:15:04.180 platform. And, uh, and that's important to recognize as well. Uh, but like I said, competition is good. Uh,

00:15:10.580 we really need to have a contestation of ideas. Um, and this is where the independent media outlets play,

00:15:17.420 um, uh, uh, uh, a very important role. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, the National Post hosts

00:15:23.320 some of the most fantastic thinkers in Canada, people like yourself, Rex Murphy, Barbara Kay,

00:15:28.960 Conrad Black. Uh, but then they're also part of the post media chain, which often picks up,

00:15:33.300 uh, Canadian press news stories where you get the sort of same regurgitated, uh, insider sort of

00:15:39.620 perspective, which, which is, is, you know, it's unfortunate. There's obviously bigger issues at

00:15:43.980 play, uh, with the legacy media. Rufa, one of the things I've noticed recently is that some of

00:15:49.140 the better sort of reporting and opinion pieces on Canada and specifically on Justin Trudeau

00:15:55.220 come from abroad. Um, you know, we had during the tracker convoy, the New York times, uh, reporting

00:16:01.100 on things that, that several times legacy media journalists, people like Rosemary Barton at the

00:16:05.680 CBC, uh, would, were openly criticizing and telling the New York times to take this down because

00:16:09.840 it's, it's wrong. Well, it wasn't wrong. It just didn't fit with the Trudeau narrative. Uh, you

00:16:14.140 know, the idea that they were breaking into vehicles and arresting people at gunpoint, that

00:16:17.460 was sort of like an inconvenient story that, that, um, the Canadian media didn't want. Uh,

00:16:21.980 one of the other things I've noticed is a sort of disconnect between, so in Canada, if, if you say

00:16:27.440 that Justin Trudeau is acting like a dictator or that Canada is going down a tyrannical or authoritarian

00:16:32.840 path, uh, the media sort of like clutch their pearls and say like, that's reckless and, and, uh,

00:16:38.840 you know, hyperbolic, how dare you? Uh, more and more, we're hearing that opinion, um, being

00:16:44.040 taken from people around the world, outside observers, uh, people who are critical of,

00:16:48.940 of Trudeau. And, uh, I saw that you shared a piece by a Rav Arora, who's a great young

00:16:54.720 writer from Vancouver. He wrote a piece in the New York post, um, titled once a liberal

00:16:58.900 democracy, Canada is now an authoritarian state. So it's a great piece. I encourage reader, uh,

00:17:04.360 viewers to go out and read it. Uh, Rav argues that Canadian government has taken away,

00:17:08.460 has taken its power to extreme levels. He tells a story about how he almost wasn't allowed back

00:17:12.060 into Canada, um, despite, um, you know, being a Canadian. And, um, he, he, he also makes a point

00:17:18.460 saying that, you know, his family left India when he was a child and he feels that, you know, Canada

00:17:23.300 is not necessarily more free than India. Um, I'm wondering, uh, if you, if you can give us your,

00:17:28.460 your thoughts on, on Rav's piece and, and sort of generally that direction that not only is Canada

00:17:34.300 heading towards this direction, but you don't see these kinds of, uh, opinion pieces much in

00:17:38.000 Canada, increasingly you are seeing them around the world though. Uh, exactly. I, uh, very much

00:17:43.600 enjoyed Rav's piece and I shared it. Um, um, um, you know, I shared a very, uh, important quote from

00:17:49.140 the tweet where he says that, you know, the, the country that my parents left behind India, um, you

00:17:54.620 know, seems a lot less authoritarian than Canada at this point, because he's unvaccinated and he can't 1.00

00:18:00.120 get on a plane and, uh, and he's essentially a prisoner in his own country. I think that's, um,

00:18:05.540 I, you know, I'm very, um, uh, sympathetic to that point of view. Um, I, I, I, you know,

00:18:11.020 I know a lot of unvaccinated people and they're really struggling. It's, um, in Canada is an outlier

00:18:17.440 in this regard. Um, uh, India country that I'm also very familiar with having spent a lot of time

00:18:23.640 there has no vaccine mandates, uh, in place. In fact, the Supreme court of India said that vaccine

00:18:28.880 mandates, um, were, uh, were unconstitutional and, uh, in a, in a recent ruling, um, and, uh, that,

00:18:36.660 um, you know, you can't, uh, and, and, uh, and, uh, emphasized on the importance of bodily autonomy.

00:18:43.140 Uh, it was an extraordinary ruling and, um, and it makes, made me question why, uh, you know,

00:18:49.220 what is happening with our courts here? You know, why aren't we seeing this kind of, um, uh, you know,

00:18:54.280 why aren't we seeing this sort of thing happening here? Uh, and, and, and, and, and so a lot of

00:18:59.300 people like Rav, you know, feel that the country that they grew up in, and I, I will say this as

00:19:05.660 someone who spent, um, 25 years, uh, you know, I came here as a teenager and I've been, you know,

00:19:11.480 and I've been here for, uh, for, for a long time. And I can tell you that I don't recognize this

00:19:17.000 country anymore. I don't, I don't, I don't, um, uh, recognize what, you know, I don't understand

00:19:22.360 what is happening here. I don't know why Canada is an outlier here. Of course, there are problems

00:19:27.340 with India. I wouldn't say that, uh, you know, India is necessarily freer than Canada. I think

00:19:33.080 that would be a little bit of an exaggeration if one were to say that, but one can certainly point

00:19:37.960 to the fact that, um, Canada is heading in the wrong direction. It is an outlier in the advanced

00:19:43.740 West. It is, it's an outlier among major countries in insisting on, um, vaccine mandates on the two

00:19:50.720 dose, uh, vaccine mandate, which makes absolutely no sense. You have, um, uh, research, uh, upon

00:19:57.160 research coming up from various credible, uh, health agencies from across the world, whether

00:20:01.800 it's the CDC, whether it's the UK, uh, or it's the UK health authority, uh, or UK health agency

00:20:07.500 that show that the two dose vaccine, uh, regimen is actually not very effective at this point

00:20:13.380 where if you've done two doses, um, you're, you're, you're really the vaccine effectiveness

00:20:19.000 has essentially gone down to zero. So, but, but the diff, but the thing is I can get on

00:20:24.740 a plane, uh, and I can, uh, apply for a federal government job, uh, but the unvaccinated can't. 1.00

00:20:30.700 And that's the, and that's what's, um, very cruel about the situation. Um, and, and, and also

00:20:37.040 we've, we've completely ignored the fact that, um, uh, a lot of unvaccinated people probably

00:20:42.400 have, um, a great deal of natural immunity at this point. At this point, everyone's more

00:20:47.440 or less been infected. And so you have, uh, immunity from vaccination and you also have

00:20:52.580 immunity from having recovered from COVID-19. Um, yet, yet the government insists on these

00:20:59.080 vaccine mandates, which absolutely make no sense. So I, I appreciate where he's coming

00:21:03.640 from, where Rav Aurora is coming from, and, um, I sympathize with it and it is an absolutely

00:21:09.020 frustrating situation to be in. Um, and, um, and, um, you know, I, uh, I, and he faced

00:21:15.060 a lot of pushback, um, on the piece. Um, in fact, I think a lot of people thought that

00:21:19.960 I was writing the piece. Um, uh, your, your, your tweet sort of went viral, you know, because,

00:21:26.600 because you're from India too, it kind of seemed like maybe you would have it, but, but yeah.

00:21:30.580 The reactions were, you know, borderline xenophobic, outright, you know, racist in, in a sense. Uh,

00:21:39.340 they, they thought that I'd written the piece or they thought that he had written or, or they

00:21:44.280 correctly assumed he wrote the piece and they told us to go back to India. If we felt, uh, that things

00:21:49.640 were so bad here, why are you here? Go back to India. Um, Rav's response was, well, I'd like to, 0.59

00:21:55.660 but I can't get on a plane. Um, uh, I think that was his response. And, uh, and honestly, that,

00:22:01.820 that kind of response is extremely xenophobic and problematic. And it comes from, um, the so-called

00:22:08.180 liberal left, you know, and, uh, because they're, they're supposed to be better than this, but,

00:22:14.780 you know, it doesn't take much to, uh, for, for these kinds of sentiments to, uh, to, to, to come out

00:22:20.320 as anytime I criticize Canada, I'm told that I, you know, I should just go back. Well, why should I?

00:22:25.440 I chose this country, you know, I chose to be here and I choose to remain here and I will, uh,

00:22:31.540 fight for what is right. And, uh, and, and that's really the best response you can give to such

00:22:36.440 people, but it was quite extraordinary the pushback because I think, I think, um, Rav, uh, touched a

00:22:43.880 nerve, um, um, and in a way that my piece, my piece did something similar. It touched a nerve. Um,

00:22:51.780 um, and I, and I, and I think, I, you know, I, I will quote this and I'm paraphrasing here, but the

00:22:56.780 New York times correspondent who, um, covered the protests, uh, for the New York times, uh, was I

00:23:02.420 think interviewed by Canada land shortly after. And, uh, and her parting shot was that, you know,

00:23:08.300 I don't think Canadians are used to seeing themselves in this manner. And I think that's,

00:23:13.280 that's, that's what's going on here. That, that explains the, um, the pushback that, uh, at least the

00:23:19.400 pushback that she was getting. And I think that really does sum up the pushback, um, describes the

00:23:24.620 pushback that Rav and I, uh, have been getting. Right. Well, I mean, what happened to the whole

00:23:29.260 Canadian is a Canadian is Canadian. In Rav's case, he moved to Canada when he was four years old. So

00:23:33.440 it's not like he, you know, it's not like he grew up in India and, and, and has a place to go back

00:23:37.940 there. It's like his family made this choice. And interestingly for him, you know, he's a, he's a young

00:23:42.740 guy. I think he's in his early twenties. And the reason that he didn't get vaccinated is because he got

00:23:47.500 COVID and he had natural immunity. So you're right. He probably has stronger immunity and a better

00:23:51.180 chance of being okay than, than, than most other people. Yeah. And that is the science. That is the

00:23:57.360 science. There is actual science there and we are completely ignoring it. And that is just very

00:24:04.020 perplexing. Like if I can go to Germany tomorrow and I can show a proof of, um, I can either show

00:24:10.340 proof of vaccination or proof of a negative COVID test or proof of recovery. A lot of European 0.96

00:24:14.760 countries accept proof of recovery. Uh, what makes us so special? Why are we so different

00:24:19.900 here? Uh, it's not just Canada, but it's also the U S. Um, and you know, then it leads to all

00:24:25.660 of these questions, you know, then it leads us into this rabbit hole of, uh, conspiracy theories.

00:24:30.540 You know, what is going on here? Is it the pharmaceutical companies? We bought all of these

00:24:34.420 vaccines. Maybe they're just, they just want to push this on us because they bought all of these

00:24:38.560 vaccines. I'd rather not go there. You know, I'd rather like take on the policy for what it is

00:24:43.140 and criticize it. But, um, but it is quite extraordinary that we, uh, are an outlier,

00:24:48.260 uh, in, in much of the world. And, uh, and we're just, it's, it's, uh, needlessly punishing,

00:24:54.640 uh, five or 6 million Canadians for, uh, making a medical decision.

00:25:00.560 Well, absolutely. And, and, and the bizarre decision this week for the federal government,

00:25:04.620 the liberal party and the NDP to extend these travel restrictions sort of indefinitely. It's like,

00:25:10.280 you know, we can't, we can't even at this point admit that most of these measures are no longer

00:25:16.180 necessary. Some of them were never necessary in the first place. It's like they're, they're completely

00:25:20.280 sort of stuck to that. I, I want to ask you this, Rupa, you recently wrote on some of the various

00:25:25.120 polls about Canadians, particularly new Canadians and new immigrants, how they're losing confidence

00:25:31.080 in Canada and the direction. And I think this is what you're talking about. Touched a nerve with a lot

00:25:34.920 of liberals is that, uh, well, the Leger poll commissioned by the Institute for Canadian

00:25:39.600 Citizenship found that 30% of new Canadians age 18 to 34. So they were more likely to move to

00:25:45.520 another country within the next two years. You know, Canada is a country that sort of prides itself

00:25:49.940 on, uh, being very welcoming to immigrants. Uh, all of the political parties are very pro immigration

00:25:56.260 and Canada is sort of held up as this country where pluralism works and immigration has been

00:26:01.280 successful. Um, and yet, you know, under this direction of all people, Justin Trudeau, the

00:26:06.560 person who sort of champions, um, diversity as our strength, he says it all the time. Um, and yet

00:26:11.820 under his leadership, especially young immigrants, which are the ones that really Canada wants to 1.00

00:26:17.020 recruit because they're the ones that help our economy and help us grow and help balance out the

00:26:20.960 aging population and the demographic crunch and all that kind of stuff. Increasingly, they don't want

00:26:25.060 to come to Canada. They want to live here. I think this creates a huge problem, uh, for Trudeau.

00:26:29.700 So why don't you tell us a little bit about your research and your reporting on this area?

00:26:34.120 Well, um, so I think, um, if I, if I remember correctly, uh, that poll, uh, talked about how

00:26:41.040 a lot of people were losing trust in the government. Uh, there was an increasing loss of trust in the

00:26:47.920 way government works and that there was a lack of democratic accountability, um, uh, um, that, that,

00:26:53.900 that people were generally feeling. Um, and that is very, um, interesting, uh, because, um, you know,

00:27:02.240 normally new immigrants, um, are not necessarily looking at these issues. Um, I would say they're, 1.00

00:27:08.200 they're, they're focused on the bread and butter issues. They're looking at the, you know, they're

00:27:13.740 looking at employment options. They want to send their kids to school. Um, they, they want to earn a

00:27:19.840 living. Uh, so the fact that they're focused on these other issues is quite extraordinary. Um,

00:27:26.220 and I think it is a general sense of malaise that everybody's been feeling, especially over the last

00:27:31.400 couple of years. Um, and, uh, and, and, uh, new immigrants are not, um, um, immune from that. Uh, 1.00

00:27:38.900 in fact, I would say that new immigrants have also, um, uh, probably, uh, been at the receiving end

00:27:44.720 of some of these, um, harsh, um, harsh restrictions, uh, whether it's the mandates. I, I, I, I've met a

00:27:50.800 few new immigrants who, uh, don't want to be vaccinated. Uh, and, and they have, they, you 1.00

00:27:56.160 know, so it affects them directly. Um, and, and just this, like, as I said, there's a general sense

00:28:01.300 of malaise, you know, where are we going here? You know, uh, and, and there's a lot of other stuff

00:28:06.680 going on here as well. New immigrants tend to be generally very conservative. I think new immigrants 1.00

00:28:11.440 probably, and I can't speak for all new immigrants, but generally conservative new immigrants are not

00:28:16.820 necessarily interested in wokeism. This is not something that they identify with. Um, if you tell,

00:28:22.180 um, a conservative new immigrant, uh, that, uh, a woman is not really a woman or that, uh, there is no

00:28:29.720 such thing as a woman, uh, they're going to be shocked at these kinds of views. And, uh, and I, I,

00:28:35.300 and, and so there's a cultural element to this. I conjecture, um, I don't have, um, data to back

00:28:41.280 this up, but I do think that there's a strong cultural component to the way, uh, new immigrants

00:28:45.980 feel about being in Canada because Canada in a sense has completely, um, you know, uh, bought into

00:28:53.480 this woke narrative more than any other country, maybe except for the United States. Um, but, uh,

00:29:00.540 certainly, you know, European countries, you know, there's a great deal of, um, you know,

00:29:05.160 there's a contestation of these, of these, of these narratives, uh, much more than, uh, what

00:29:10.660 we're seeing here. And, uh, so there's a strong cultural component, um, economic component. Sure.

00:29:17.060 Uh, new immigrants are always struggling to find jobs. Um, uh, the, the fact that they come here, 1.00

00:29:22.260 uh, highly skilled and can't, uh, translate those skills into, uh, meaningful employment here,

00:29:27.960 that continues to be an issue. I know the Ford government is working on changing that. Uh, but,

00:29:33.220 you know, there's still a lot of PhDs and doctors driving taxis. Um, so there is still an economic

00:29:39.460 component. It's still, it's, it still matters. Uh, but I think increasingly there's also a cultural

00:29:44.860 component to these, um, to these, uh, to these, uh, to, uh, to this general feeling of, uh, malaise

00:29:51.640 and that, you know, they're not happy being here. Absolutely. Well, another news story this week is

00:29:56.780 that the true government is decriminalizing drugs in British Columbia. I know that's one issue that,

00:30:01.300 uh, for, for my, uh, my husband's family is from Iran and that's something that they just really

00:30:06.360 can't wrap their head around, uh, just from like a human dignity perspective. Why is Canada allowing

00:30:11.300 people to use heroin and these other hard drugs? Uh, there's such, there's such a huge disconnect.

00:30:16.080 Um, and, and it is really interesting to see, uh, Trudeau. Uh, I, I, I think he's really jumping

00:30:21.700 the shark with so many of these issues where he's just so incredibly out of touch with the people he

00:30:26.580 reports to, to stand for. Well, Rupa, I, I can't, I can't tell you how excited we are to have you as

00:30:31.620 part of the team. It's such an honor. And I'm really looking forward to your, uh, your, your

00:30:36.400 contributions with us. Uh, tell us a little bit about your podcast, uh, what viewers can expect

00:30:41.820 and what kind of issues you're going to be diving into. Well, um, no, it's an honor, Candice. And I'm

00:30:47.460 so thrilled that I'm doing this for the True North Center. And I'm really excited about what,

00:30:52.600 what, what is going to come in the coming weeks and months. Um, and, uh, so first of all, I'm

00:30:58.420 going to be, um, it's going to be, uh, about 20 minutes or so, and we'll, uh, have, um, uh, you

00:31:04.340 know, I'll have a guest on, uh, and I'll obviously pick the topics and these are topics and ideas

00:31:10.660 that I care about. And so it, it, it, it's, it'll be similar to the kinds of things that I, uh, write

00:31:15.820 about, uh, but the difference being that we'll, we'll, we'll have more in-depth, uh, conversations, uh,

00:31:21.780 and, and, and also talk about things that I couldn't go into my column. Um, so it'll be

00:31:26.240 everything from all of the issues that we care about and the issues that don't necessarily

00:31:30.720 make it into mainstream media conversations. I think that is very important for me. I do want to

00:31:36.320 pay, you know, give some attention to these, to these, uh, to these issues and, um, and, and, and,

00:31:43.360 and, and that's basically where, where I'm coming from and hopefully, um, it'll stimulate, um, an

00:31:50.320 interesting, uh, conversation around these topics, uh, as we go on. Uh, and I, my, uh, viewers, my

00:31:57.680 listeners don't necessarily have to agree with me. Uh, I think it's, it would be good, uh, if, if, if they

00:32:03.820 actually disagreed with me, I think it would be, it would spark a discussion around these things,

00:32:08.400 uh, around these ideas. But, um, so I, you know, I, I, I want them to be able to, uh, uh, get something

00:32:14.800 out of these, uh, discussions. I want it to be intellectual. I want it to be stimulating. Some

00:32:19.460 of the topics may be provocative, but I'm, I'm, I'm not shy about being provocative. So, um, so I

00:32:25.140 think, I think, uh, it, it, it, it, it hopes to be very promising and I'm really looking forward to it.

00:32:30.620 Well, that's great. Rupa, I can't wait. Your, your first, uh, episode's going to air next week. So

00:32:34.560 everyone, uh, stay tuned for that. Uh, thank you so much, uh, for joining the show and, and thank

00:32:39.180 you for joining us and welcome aboard to True North. Thank you so much, Candice. It's a pleasure.

00:32:44.500 Okay. That's Rupa Subramania now with True North. I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is the Candice Malcolm

00:32:48.760 Show.

00:33:04.560 I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is the Candice Malcolm. Thank you so much, and thank you.

00:33:10.160 Thank you.

The Candice Malcolm Show - June 01, 2022

Rupa Subramanya joins True North!

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