The Candice Malcolm Show - Standing up against the corporate media’s social justice agenda (Ft. Jamil Jivani)

00:00:00.000 The corporate legacy media fires yet another journalist who refuses to comply with the

00:00:05.500 woke left-wing ideology. I'm Candace Malcolm, and this is The Candace Malcolm Show.

00:00:20.820 Hi everyone, thank you so much for tuning into the show. So it seems like an all too familiar

00:00:25.300 story. The legacy media fires a bright and up-and-coming journalist for the crime of not

00:00:31.140 being woke enough. If you refuse to go along with the corporate media's social justice agenda,

00:00:36.020 if you fail to comply with the left's rigid, regressive, anti-scientific dogma, you very much

00:00:42.100 run the risk of losing your job. Now this is true in all sorts of sectors. I've heard of friends who

00:00:46.900 work at big banks who are required to put their preferred pronouns in their bio. Yes, you have to

00:00:52.500 tell the public whether you are he or she is if they wouldn't be able to tell from your name and

00:00:57.620 your photo. And here at True North, we've reported about how government workers are now often forced

00:01:02.160 to attend so-called anti-racist training, which is usually just filled with racist nonsense about 0.95

00:01:07.600 white people being universally oppressive and irredeemably bad. The woke mind virus, as Elon 0.98

00:01:13.640 Musk aptly calls it, has infected just what every company in corporate Canada, but it seems to be

00:01:19.140 the media that is hardest hit. There are anti-conservative purges happening in editorial

00:01:24.020 sections and managerial rooms across the country. Among the legacy media, I found that this is

00:01:29.800 particularly true in the world of talk radio. So talk radio used to be a medium that was dominated

00:01:34.860 by conservative voices and conservative ideas, but that has dramatically changed in the past decade.

00:01:40.500 We used to hear passionate and heated criticisms of never-ending leftist dogma. Well, today's the

00:01:45.660 opposite. We hear cheerleading of woke dogma. We used to hear voices ranting against things like

00:01:50.400 political correctness and government overreach, rants against progressive forces undermining family,

00:01:55.820 tradition, and the values of our society. Well, today, talk radio, again, champions all those things.

00:02:01.000 It sounds completely different. It's soft. It's effeminate. It's progressive. It's unapologetically

00:02:06.480 woke. The most trusted conservative voices in the talk radio world are long gone. Voices like

00:02:11.480 David Rutherford and Andrew Lawton. They have been pushed off the airways. The ones that still remain

00:02:16.840 like long-standing conservative voice Charles Adler. I once worked for him. Well, he's done a

00:02:22.500 complete 180. Adler used to be the voice of Canadian common sense. That was his tagline. That was what he

00:02:27.960 based his show around. Well, now it's the opposite. He's abandoned common sense, and he's become a pro-Trudeau

00:02:33.620 leftist voice cheerleading the liberal agenda at every possibility. It's unbearable to listen to. He routinely

00:02:39.620 thanks the government, and he calls conservatives the enemy. That's someone who used to be

00:02:44.080 a strong conservative voice. Well, I guess he did what he needed to do in order to keep his voice

00:02:49.220 on the air. Well, today, I'm pleased to be joined by a conservative who did the exact opposite,

00:02:54.160 a conservative who refused to bend the knee. He refused to parrot the left's deranged, woke ideology,

00:02:59.900 and he refused to be muzzled by the corporate legacy media. I'm talking about Jamil Javani. So,

00:03:05.420 Jamil, welcome to the program. Thank you so much for joining us.

00:03:08.340 Thanks for having me, Candice.

00:03:10.580 So, for those who are not familiar with Jamil, this is the first time he's come on the program.

00:03:14.840 He's a former radio host, and he is now a Senior Fellow for Diversity and Empowerment, I like that title,

00:03:20.600 at the McDonnell-Laurie Institute. He also sits on the Premier's Council on Equality and Opportunity,

00:03:25.640 and is an advocate for community opportunities in the Ford government. Jamil used to be the host of

00:03:30.720 Tonight with Jamil Javani on News Talk 1010 here in Toronto, but he was recently fired by Bell Media and

00:03:35.620 iHeartRadio for refusing to parrot left-wing talking points. Jamil is a graduate of Yale Law

00:03:41.920 School, one of the best and most selective law schools in the world, and he's the author of the

00:03:45.260 book, Why Young Men? Rage, Race, and the Crisis of Identity. So, Jamil, it's such an honor to have

00:03:51.220 you on the show. I know you and I talk, but this is the first time you've come on the Candice Malcolm

00:03:55.060 Show. So, welcome, and let's talk a little bit about your background. So, what got you interested in

00:04:01.540 the world of media? I know you went to law school, you're a lawyer by training. Why did you choose to

00:04:07.040 go into media and not into law? Yeah, well, it's great to be with you, Candice, and, you know, I've

00:04:12.780 been a listener to the show for a while, so it's cool to be on with you. You know, basically, my

00:04:18.180 interest in media came from doing advocacy work and activism on behalf of the communities that I

00:04:24.480 serve and that I have lived in. And, you know, I did about, you know, routinely doing interviews and,

00:04:30.720 you know, writing op-eds, eventually turned into some relationships in the media. And I think a

00:04:37.000 tipping point for me was the summer of 2020. In particular, you know, the Black Lives Matter

00:04:43.020 protests, some of which turned into riots in the United States, were happening. There was a church,

00:04:48.920 a very famous, and one of the oldest churches in Washington, D.C., that was burned down. You might

00:04:54.120 remember, it's the famous church where Donald Trump took a picture with an upside-down Bible.

00:04:59.160 And when that church was burned down, it just was very troubling to me to see how everyone was 0.82

00:05:07.400 pretending that this was somehow the will of Black people, that Black people wanted churches burned 0.97

00:05:13.420 down, that we wanted riots, that we wanted police officers being attacked. I just, that is not the 0.91

00:05:20.620 experience I've had as a Black person, both living in the United States and in Canada. And it's also not 1.00

00:05:26.380 what anyone who I worship with at church or who I see in community centers, what anyone wants,

00:05:33.240 regardless of their racial background. So it was very frustrating for me to see that. And that's what

00:05:38.260 made me kind of say, okay, maybe I need to spend a bit more time in the media space, because there's

00:05:43.640 got to be somebody to speak against this stuff. And to show that, you know, the average working

00:05:49.240 middle-class Black family has the same political priorities as the average working middle-class

00:05:55.740 family of any other race, white, Asian, Hispanic, whatever. And this idea that the media is

00:06:02.580 consistently sort of manipulating certain communities to be, in my view, Trojan horses for

00:06:09.440 a left-wing agenda. I just think that needed to be, you know, rebutted. And that's where the radio show

00:06:16.220 came in, where I sort of said, okay, I'm interested in doing more media now. And I had a radio show

00:06:21.220 pitched to me, and I said, okay, I mean, it's different than anything I've done before. But

00:06:24.780 at that point, I felt like my voice, and frankly, the voice of the guests that I wanted to bring on was

00:06:30.260 necessary. It's so interesting. I want to go back to that summer of 2020 episode, because it was such an

00:06:37.220 interesting sort of turning point in retrospect, right? You had COVID in full-fledged. Everyone was

00:06:42.420 ordered to stay at home. It was a new edict that we're all sort of getting used to. We were told two

00:06:47.300 weeks to flatten the curve. And then, as we know, that turned into many, many months of lockdowns. And in

00:06:51.820 the midst of all that, there was this huge traumatic event that was captured on film, and it sort of

00:06:57.340 captured the imagination of the entire world. I'm talking about the death of George Floyd, the murder at

00:07:04.240 the hands of a police officer in Minnesota. And that kind of really powerful story exploded into

00:07:13.080 just uncontrollable riots all over the country. It seemed to me the media was really kind of cheering

00:07:20.660 that on. They wanted to undermine Donald Trump's authority. They knew that the election was coming

00:07:24.660 up, and they wanted to paint the picture of a lack of stability and complete chaos under Donald Trump's

00:07:31.040 watch. I'm wondering, from your perspective, how did things get so out of hand? And you said that

00:07:36.940 the demands of people and the actions of the rioters and the protesters, there's peaceful

00:07:42.920 protesters mixed in with the sort of chaotic rioters, was not the will of the sort of typical

00:07:48.540 middle-class black family or black people. So how did that get so separated? And what do you think

00:07:56.620 of the fact that this issue of policing and police brutality aimed towards the black community

00:08:02.640 sort of got so separated from the best interests in protecting and ensuring stability and lawfulness

00:08:11.100 in black communities?

00:08:13.840 Well, the unfortunate reality is that a lot of us who may be considered, you know, symbols of diversity,

00:08:21.500 whether it's black people, indigenous people, women, the LGBT community, often we get used by elite

00:08:29.740 liberals who have their own political agenda, whatever it may be at the given time, whether

00:08:35.200 it's an attempt to draw up voters, or whether it's an attempt to push forward a new policy framework,

00:08:41.880 or increase corporate power in a certain industry, a certain aspect of our lives, like big tech,

00:08:48.820 for example, we get used. And it's unfortunate, because a lot of us do believe, and you know,

00:08:56.000 it's, it's, I don't say this dismissively, a lot of us do believe that these liberal elites are the

00:09:01.340 only way for our communities to have a voice. And so we're all too willing to accept being manipulated

00:09:07.940 and being used by them. And I think that's what happened in the summer of 2020, which is, you know,

00:09:14.160 the Democrats wanted to get black voters in particular, but I think all sorts of voters

00:09:19.980 angry at the Republicans angry at Donald Trump, so that they could count on their support in the 2020

00:09:27.180 election. And I also think that a lot of corporations who benefited, frankly, from pandemic policy,

00:09:35.260 because they were big businesses and small businesses, their competitors are being put out.

00:09:40.020 And so embracing race politics became a way to brand themselves as compassionate and thoughtful

00:09:47.880 and caring, at a time where masses of people were being locked down, and big business profits were

00:09:55.600 skyrocketing. So I really don't believe there's a lot of heart for disadvantaged people of any race 1.00

00:10:03.680 among these liberal elites. I think a lot of it is using us as pawns. And I think the clearest example

00:10:10.000 of that, as you mentioned, Candace, would be the way policing has been dealt with in the last two

00:10:15.020 years. The reason why what happened with George Floyd is so tragic, in addition to him losing his life

00:10:21.860 and his family having to mourn him, is that police are necessary in all of our communities, but especially

00:10:28.920 where children are exposed to crime. No parent wants their son or daughter walking home from school and

00:10:36.520 having to worry about a stray bullet hitting them. So in those sorts of situations, police violence is

00:10:43.300 doubly tragic. One, because of the violence itself, and two, because it undermines a really important

00:10:50.920 role for government services to have in creating an even playing field for people who are living in an

00:10:57.740 environment where crime may be a greater influence over their public safety than in other places.

00:11:03.020 And what we saw liberal elites do is instead of leaning into that complexity and saying, okay,

00:11:08.840 how do we try to solve this problem so we can have safe streets, but also make sure that police powers

00:11:14.440 are used in safe and restrained ways, they decided to just to make police the enemy. And we've seen

00:11:21.740 homicide rates in many areas in the United States increase dramatically since then, because liberal elites

00:11:28.840 have created narratives and fan flames of division between police officers and the communities that

00:11:34.320 they serve. So if liberal elites have a heart for our communities, if their genuine interest is in the

00:11:40.120 betterment of black people, indigenous people, women, LGBT, whatever minority group, or in the case of

00:11:46.120 women, majority group that they're claiming to have a concern for, I just think that outcomes would be 1.00

00:11:52.640 different and policy choices would be different. And I think that exposes, I think, the real intention behind a lot of this,

00:11:58.420 uh, so-called activism.

00:12:00.380 Well, it seems like there's so many contradictions, Jamil, in the left world, left-wing worldview and

00:12:05.920 ideology, because I'll just give you another example. You know, the left, uh, has also been sort of

00:12:10.540 championing this idea of, um, aboriginal reconciliation and, you know, doing the similar kind of routine where

00:12:16.640 they look the other way when, uh, statues are torn down and churches are burned down in Canada. Um, and so that they

00:12:22.460 really pretend to take an interest in, uh, you know, improving the lives of First Nations people. 0.70

00:12:27.500 Well, at the same time, they kill and cancel, uh, pipelines and, and projects that could give jobs and

00:12:34.880 give meaningful work to people in Northern communities. So, so while at the same time as

00:12:39.400 sort of pretending to champion the cause, um, the policies that they enact harm the, uh, the potential

00:12:46.200 of, of, of working and, and having meaningful, uh, you know, work in your life that, that, that enables you

00:12:51.660 so much more growth. I see the same kind of thing with Black Lives Matter. It's like, you know,

00:12:56.340 the, the, the, the, the people on the left, the spokespeople, the media, they, they, they pretend

00:13:01.020 to champion Black causes. They put up a Black square on their Instagram, but then they also

00:13:05.460 call for defunding the police. I know in, in Toronto, there was a big issue. The Toronto started

00:13:10.220 a big expose on the issue of carding and, uh, the idea that, that Black people were disproportionately

00:13:16.080 stopped by police, asked for their ID. Um, and the idea was sort of the proactive policing that

00:13:20.860 they, that they would go into neighborhoods that had higher crime and just sort of keep the peace

00:13:25.180 to prevent crime from coming down the road. Uh, after the Toronto Star investigation, they stopped

00:13:30.840 that practice and looked into it. And maybe there was some disproportionate racial profiling going

00:13:35.120 on, but it's, it's, it's undeniable that the crime rate in Toronto raised, uh, went up after that. And

00:13:39.500 we had more murders in Toronto than in New York city. Um, I think in 2018 or 2019. So it seems like a lot

00:13:45.260 of the policies that the left advocate for are actually worse off. I'm wondering if you can

00:13:50.040 comment on that. Well, yeah. So the, the police carding or street checks it's called in some parts

00:13:57.940 of Canada. Um, the, one of the reasons why it's a problem is that it allows for too much discretion

00:14:04.840 on the part of police officers to determine who is suspicious, who should be stopped, who should be

00:14:11.240 questioned. And I think, you know, as a conservative, I have a sensitivity to that, uh, because I think

00:14:16.820 it can enable government overreach into people's lives, but also as a black man, I have a sensitivity

00:14:21.840 to it because I experienced those sorts of policies and what it's like when a police officer just

00:14:27.680 arbitrarily decides to treat you like you've done something wrong when you haven't. So I understand

00:14:32.780 the concern and I don't think it's, it would be wise to dismiss why people get concerned about

00:14:38.440 these sorts of policies. But to your point about the Toronto star, for example, what it exposes that

00:14:44.640 when a problem is, uh, raised are people who sort of have a more nuanced balanced in my, from my

00:14:53.880 perspective, more sophisticated, uh, approach to trying to develop a solution actually prepared to

00:14:59.800 compete with the left-wing narrative that is going to sound the alarm and remove any kind of nuance

00:15:05.620 in the discussion at all. And frankly, misrepresent a lot of these communities, including many black

00:15:11.420 families, as though we are anti-police or we hate the police or don't understand how critical the police

00:15:17.600 are for us to have any sort of equality of opportunity in this society. So in my view, what the Toronto star

00:15:25.280 success is in shaping perceptions of police officers in this part of the country is a sign that we don't

00:15:33.200 have people sort of on the other side of the debate, well prepared to actually push back on

00:15:39.560 the Toronto star's efforts. I can give you a very clear example of that. We had, in my view, one of

00:15:45.120 the most talented judges in Canada, uh, justice Michael Tullock, write a report in 2018 about police

00:15:52.500 reform in Ontario. And a lot of his recommendations are applicable in other provinces as well. And in that

00:15:58.700 report, not once does a single black community organization that he interviewed, not once does a

00:16:05.380 single black mother or father that he spoke with or indigenous mother or father in that report say

00:16:11.500 the solution to any single problem is defunding police officers. All of their concerns could probably

00:16:17.640 summarize as mostly around training, building better relationships, police and communities. That is what a

00:16:24.060 black judge and all the black and indigenous community groups he interviewed. Those that was

00:16:29.960 their perspective. Now you would think that conservatives in power, whether it's a provincial

00:16:35.140 government here in Ontario, for example, might see that as an opportunity and say, okay, so these are

00:16:40.420 actually really reasonable, practical ways of addressing people's concerns about policing. We should get

00:16:46.180 behind that. It actually doesn't harm anyone. It doesn't take, uh, responsibilities or resources away from

00:16:52.720 police officers. In fact, it might lead to more resources for police officers. And yet conservatives

00:16:58.160 sat on that report for two years and did nothing. And then when the George Floyd thing happens,

00:17:04.300 the left is ready to push their agenda. And we had nothing to say in response because our work,

00:17:10.700 the work that was done on behalf of the working middle-class families that we should be thinking

00:17:15.120 about and prioritizing was just sitting on a shelf somewhere. So in my view, it's one, you know,

00:17:20.780 we can certainly be frustrated with the Toronto Star's alarmism or other examples of the left

00:17:26.620 being really successful in changing a conversation for the worse. But there's also tons of examples of

00:17:32.340 conservatives just not being ready to fight back and not being in a position to advance our own

00:17:37.260 worldview. And we can't blame anyone for that, but ourselves.

00:17:41.140 You're so true. You're so right. It's so true that conservatives are constantly on the defense.

00:17:44.840 And even when we have opportunities, like I would say that COVID presented a golden opportunity

00:17:48.940 for conservative governments to look at reforming our healthcare system, something that conservatives

00:17:53.080 have long complained about, the rigid government monopoly of healthcare. Well, here we have this

00:17:57.920 opportunity where healthcare system is failing and a lot of Canadians are noticing that. And rather

00:18:03.300 than conservatives being proactive and trying to push forth their own agenda, they're still sort of

00:18:07.560 playing defense on the latest cultural issues with liberals. It's so unfortunate, Jamil.

00:18:13.380 I want to go back to the whole situation with you at News Talk 1010 and what happened there. So you said

00:18:20.180 that you got approached and someone pitched a radio show to you in the midst of this social situation

00:18:27.000 that we were just commenting on. So tell us about your career with the radio station, what your show

00:18:33.940 was about, and how long you lasted on the air.

00:18:36.780 Yeah, so I was on the air for about a year and a half from summer 2020 until the end of 2021.

00:18:45.400 The person who was sort of directly above me in the very large bureaucracy that is Bell Media,

00:18:52.560 he was great. He understood that I was not a sort of token liberal, that I was a Black man with largely

00:19:00.420 conservative views on many issues, that I was not going to be a champion for Black Lives Matter,

00:19:05.520 that I had my own opinions, that I was going to bring on Black folks as guests who are not going 1.00

00:19:11.300 to be parrots for the liberal status quo. He knew all of that and he embraced it and he was a great

00:19:16.340 boss. But every single manager and executive above him was just like obsessed with trying to force

00:19:26.340 some sort of conformity on myself and on others on the air. And that was where a lot of the problems

00:19:32.640 existed, where it just felt like every day was an exhausting battle. You know, I knew anything I

00:19:39.660 said was going to be misinterpreted and I would be get some kind of weird email saying,

00:19:45.980 Driel, you know, we heard someone's upset about this. And I just, I just, it was like wearing me

00:19:51.780 down over time. That year and a half was brutal in terms of just not, I couldn't feel like I could just

00:19:57.460 do my job and then go home. It was like, I do my job and then I count down when someone's going to

00:20:02.440 complain about what I've said. Now let's keep in mind, what they're complaining about my opinions

00:20:07.840 are held by the majority of people in this country. I do not have fringe views on any topic. My views

00:20:15.480 on the air and my political opinions are informed by the reality that I grew up in an immigrant,

00:20:22.060 mostly immigrant community. I've lived and worked in middle-class communities all across Canada and

00:20:28.240 the United States. I'm very aware of the challenges people face. And I want to raise a political

00:20:34.980 conversation that I think actually responds to the concerns of the average mom and dad in this

00:20:41.620 country. So they're upset with me because I am not taking these ivory tower liberal positions,

00:20:48.340 whether it's on things like identity, race, and gender, whether it's on class issues like unionization,

00:20:55.760 whether it's on the power of the state to punish people who come from communities that I think have 0.98

00:21:02.940 historical reasons for being hesitant to get vaccinated and trying to encourage some sort of

00:21:08.780 sympathy and empathy for those families. Like it was just so weird to live in reality where most people

00:21:16.420 either if they, even if they disagreed with me, the average person I interact with at least can see

00:21:21.700 the reasonableness and all the positions that I take. And yet in bell media, these people who want

00:21:28.120 to sell you the internet and cell phones who in theory should be responsive to, you know, what the

00:21:34.720 masses of people think and believe in their priorities and their concerns and their debates wants to push

00:21:40.840 absolute conformity on a lot of these issues on the air. And that boiled over, uh, in Canada Day last

00:21:48.020 year, uh, where the day before Canada Day on June 30th, they wanted us to play a bunch of clips of

00:21:54.380 people complaining about how racist Canada is. They wanted us to go on the air and basically decry the

00:22:00.160 country as racist. And I was just like, this is not reality. Like I grew up in Brampton in a neighborhood

00:22:07.580 that is mostly black and Sikh. I never once heard people bad mouth the country. They may have issues

00:22:14.200 with, uh, discrimination in some cases or feeling like they're not getting an equal opportunity.

00:22:20.100 Sure. But I've never once heard people say, I wish I never came to Canada or I wish I could leave this

00:22:25.480 country or wow, how terrible. Never once, never. And so the fact that they were trying to take their

00:22:31.340 one black radio host and turn him into a whiny white, uh, graduate student, I just was, I just refused 0.97

00:22:41.100 to do that. And, uh, you know, these white liberal executives, I think took, uh, offense to the fact 0.96

00:22:48.600 that I was unwilling to do what they asked. And I was very, as you could probably tell from hearing me

00:22:53.700 now, very passionate about opposing their pressure. And, you know, unfortunately it's an industry,

00:23:00.440 as you know, well, uh, Candace full of people who are willing to bend the knee on everything,

00:23:04.760 even when they disagree privately, the media world in this country is like a giant country club

00:23:10.520 where people are afraid of offending their overseers because they may get kicked out.

00:23:16.160 And because of my background as a lawyer, because I work in policy and activism, I don't need the media.

00:23:22.640 And so I was not willing to let these people manipulate me into thinking I'll have no career

00:23:28.180 unless I do what they say. It's just not a position I was willing to accept. And I think

00:23:32.500 that more than anything is what led to them terminating me was they realized, you know,

00:23:37.020 they've got someone who might set a bad precedent. If other people in the industry look at me and say,

00:23:42.660 oh, you can have a career while like saying what you believe and standing up for yourself,

00:23:47.280 well, we can't have that. So they tried to make an example out of me. And I think they thought

00:23:51.240 they could, you know, uh, incentivize me with money or with additional job opportunities to

00:23:57.380 prevent me from telling the truth of what happened. But I was, I'm not willing to sign an NDA. I'm not

00:24:03.660 willing to take their, their bribes. I'm going to tell the truth. And, uh, you know, I know they're

00:24:08.560 upset about that, but that's what happens when you, uh, treat people this way. You know, they try to

00:24:13.520 dehumanize conservatives. Well, we're going to force them to recognize our humanity.

00:24:17.480 It's, it's so, there's so much irony in, in that story, Jamil, because they hired you, uh, to comment

00:24:24.280 on a very, you know, public social situation that was going on with George Floyd and Black Lives

00:24:28.480 Matter. And then they wouldn't let you have your own voice. They wouldn't let you say what you wanted

00:24:33.560 to say. They tried to pressure you. So you had white liberals pressuring a young black radio host

00:24:38.440 to, to, to, to repeat a certain type of, of ideas. And it's like, do they not realize

00:24:44.660 how sort of out of touch and, uh, propagandistic they are? It's, it's really, it's really wild.

00:24:51.840 I wonder, I know that you, uh, you, you said you started in radio in 2020. So you, you might not

00:24:57.000 have known what the industry was like sort of back in the day, but when I, when I was growing up,

00:25:01.160 I remember my dad would always listen to the news talk, uh, radio station in Vancouver. And it was,

00:25:05.700 it was right wing. That was, that was what talk radio used to be. It was, uh, you know, people

00:25:10.460 talking about how they wanted government, smaller government and basically to be left alone by

00:25:16.140 government. And that was sort of the theme that, that I would constantly hear. When do you think

00:25:19.860 that started to shift and when did this sort of woke, uh, dogma and, and, and the necessity that

00:25:27.160 everyone have the exact same opinion? Uh, when do you think that started to take over and what was

00:25:31.480 causing that? Well, one of the, one of the, a couple of things are happening here. So one of the big

00:25:37.460 issues is that, uh, too much, too many media outlets in this country are owned by a very small

00:25:44.120 number of people. So Bell media owns CTV news. They own a bunch of radio stations across the country.

00:25:51.120 They own TSN. They own a lot of media outlets. So even though, you know, the average consumer may

00:25:57.280 see these different brands at the end of the day, they're controlled by the same people. And what that

00:26:02.140 means for us as Canadians and living in a democracy is that a small board of directors, a small C-suite

00:26:10.160 set of executives get to decide what is politically acceptable on these outlets and what isn't. So the

00:26:17.380 centralization of corporate power over the media is a big part of what's gone wrong here, because what

00:26:24.080 you have in the case of Bell is the same company deciding what is politically correct on the radio or

00:26:30.420 on television is also a very risk averse company trying to sell you the internet and cable services

00:26:37.680 and cell phones. So they're taking a mindset of selling you products and applying that same corporate

00:26:46.120 philosophy to the media, which I think the average Canadian would say, we'd love it if our media were

00:26:53.060 independent enough to actually criticize big corporations. What if Bell media is doing something

00:26:58.980 that's harming the country? Like, for example, Bell media as a corporation takes positions on political

00:27:05.540 issues, like, for instance, systemic racism. And then now it spreads that philosophy and how they want

00:27:14.320 to talk about racism and race on all these media platforms. That seems like something journalists

00:27:20.360 should be talking about. Do we want corporations promoting their political philosophy from the top of a board

00:27:26.360 of directors all the way on down through its media platforms? We don't talk about that. The other

00:27:31.480 issue that comes from a Bell media is concentration of power is we know that Canadians are charged more

00:27:38.500 than almost any other country in the world, very high rates for cell phone services, and for internet

00:27:43.880 services. Bell media just raised its prices a few months ago. That seems like something Canadians might want

00:27:50.520 the media to report on. Should we be concerned? Should journalists be talking about why is it that

00:27:55.500 Canadians have to overpay for these things? Why is it that it's becoming increasingly difficult for the

00:28:00.840 average family, especially during a time like this, where everything's becoming more expensive? Why is it that

00:28:06.280 we shouldn't be making these things more affordable, especially, by the way, when the government's going to

00:28:11.100 force your kids to stay home and take classes online? Why is it now that Bell gets to raise the price of

00:28:18.320 the internet while more parents actually need the internet to give their kid a fair education? These

00:28:24.800 are all questions that you would want a fair and independent media to be exploring, and yet you see very

00:28:30.680 little coverage on these issues. So I think that's one big problem is the corporatization and the

00:28:36.300 centralization of corporate power in our media. Another issue, though, I would say that comes out

00:28:43.220 of this is a generation shift. And this is something that I think is really important for people to

00:28:48.920 understand. There is an older approach to conservative politics that I think is still welcome on a lot of

00:28:56.380 these platforms. And what I mean by that is, if you come out on the radio or on TV and say, we should be

00:29:02.260 cutting taxes. And I'm really mad at Justin Trudeau, because he's not cutting taxes. That

00:29:08.680 kind of conservatism is still embraced. Because frankly, a lot of these liberal executives, they

00:29:13.040 also want their taxes cut. They talk a big game, but they want to save money too. But the kind of

00:29:18.460 conservative politics that I would say is of our generation, Candace, where you're seeing, you know,

00:29:24.080 millennials, Gen Xers, Gen Zers talking about things like race and gender, and being, you know,

00:29:30.780 and having a clear view that is different from liberal orthodoxy, or talking about inequality,

00:29:36.540 and what we do about the fact that, you know, very small number of people got very rich during the

00:29:42.860 pandemic, that big tech power is growing and accumulating at an unprecedented rate. These are

00:29:50.040 the kinds of issues that I think younger conservatives are more inclined to talk about. These are the kinds

00:29:54.700 of things I talked about on my show. And they have a very strong problem with that. So they would love it

00:30:00.220 if they could trot out, you know, elderly people to repeat talking points from the 1980s,

00:30:07.960 because then they can caricature conservatives, they can say, Oh, these people are out of touch,

00:30:12.220 they don't know what's going on in the world right now. That's the kind of conservative they

00:30:16.000 would like. And frankly, you can see even some politicians that that mirror that approach to

00:30:21.920 politics, get a lot of support from the Bay Street type of crowd. But if you are bringing a different

00:30:27.880 perspective, one that might actually challenge these folks, it's yeah, it's gonna be a tough battle.

00:30:33.260 And I think that's, that's a big part of what's changed in the media landscape.

00:30:37.700 Well, it's so true, because there's always a certain brand of conservative that wants

00:30:41.480 strange new respect from the media. And I and I see it sadly, too often with conservative politicians.

00:30:46.620 Well, they'll they'll present themselves as being socially liberal, but fiscally conservative,

00:30:51.760 as if that's the sort of acceptable combination in the media, where you're completely right, the the

00:30:58.140 cultural battles of our of our time are really the defining issues. And and that's, those are the

00:31:03.680 ones that certainly the media and too many conservative politicians shy away from not talking

00:31:08.240 about social issues, I'm talking about cultural issues. And I actually feel, Jamil, that there's a bit

00:31:13.080 of a turning point, like the left has had a dominance for the last, I don't know, 20, 30, 40,

00:31:20.100 50 years when it comes to social progress, right, that the left has pushed its ideas through academia,

00:31:25.960 through the media, through corporations, big business, every everywhere you look, the left is

00:31:31.760 gaining ground. But I think I think they've gone too far. And there's a couple of big examples,

00:31:37.340 you see Ron DeSantis, the governor down in Florida, really pushing back against Disney. And it looks like,

00:31:43.140 you know, having having a victory in terms of, you know, pushing through legislation that protects

00:31:48.280 parents from their children being indoctrinated with the gender ideology in school, you know,

00:31:53.740 Disney pushing back, and then Disney losing their special status that gives them special tax and,

00:31:59.040 you know, exemptions from regulations. So on the one hand, that that cultural battle is being fought

00:32:04.740 out, and I think won by conservatives. And on the other hand, you have Elon Musk successfully,

00:32:09.560 it looks like buying Twitter and saying, I'm going to recreate Twitter to be what it was supposed to be,

00:32:13.760 a free speech platform. So I'm wondering if you can comment on these on these sort of victories that

00:32:19.380 conservatives have been having, whether you think that there is a shift and a turning point, whether

00:32:23.340 you would categorize these as victories, or if it's too soon to tell, what are your thoughts?

00:32:29.060 Well, I think you're right that there is a pushback mounting. It's becoming more commonplace to see

00:32:35.020 people acknowledge like this has gone too far, this, this woke political movement, however you want to

00:32:41.760 label it. I think it's becoming increasingly common for people to feel more comfortable saying what

00:32:47.380 they probably believed two years ago, but didn't know how to say without potentially risking their

00:32:52.320 jobs, their reputations. So that is a good measure, I believe, of pushback growing is just seeing it be

00:32:58.780 more commonplace for people to express dissent from this very well funded, well financed political

00:33:06.820 movement. Where I'm a little bit concerned is what you know, with someone like Ron DeSantis, I think

00:33:13.600 he's on the right track, in terms of establishing some safeguards for how power is used in our society.

00:33:21.780 I don't see the Elon Musk thing really being an example of that, like it's really just switching

00:33:27.720 from one center of power to another, maybe he'll use it in a way that's more pro free speech. But even

00:33:34.640 Jack Dorsey's comment on this is that he doesn't really believe that Twitter should be a company,

00:33:40.460 a private company anymore. He said that. And he said, if it's going to be a private company,

00:33:44.500 he's glad Elon Musk is in charge, but he doesn't believe that it should be a private company.

00:33:49.840 And I tend to agree with that. And I think Ron DeSantis' views are in line with that too.

00:33:55.680 Now, I don't know if that means it should be considered a public utility. Some of these

00:33:59.920 big tech firms, you know, I'm not super confident that's the solution either. But broadly speaking,

00:34:06.800 I do think that we need some sort of regulations in place. And this is what Ron DeSantis has done

00:34:11.620 well, just to make sure that power accumulating in the private sector is going to have some checks

00:34:17.840 and balances, the same way conservatives rightfully want power in the public sector to have checks 0.98

00:34:23.620 and balances. So from my view, that should be the ultimate goal. And any change that happens that

00:34:29.720 doesn't increase accountability on powerful institutions probably could be a good first

00:34:35.220 step, but probably is not where we should be hanging our hats, I think. Well, it's interesting because we

00:34:40.220 talk a lot about how corporations, especially big tech, they are more powerful in countries. And we see

00:34:44.980 examples of that time and time again, but they're not governed by anything remotely like a constitution.

00:34:49.180 So there's no, you know, transparency or public disclosure in terms of how the algorithm works. You

00:34:54.300 have no idea why you're not getting the same kind of reach as you might have before. It's completely

00:34:59.720 secretive. And then when it comes to protecting free speech and freedom of association and, you know,

00:35:06.740 the right to have a platform, essentially the right to speak in the public, you know, they'll just erase

00:35:14.080 your account and disappear you without any kind of, again, transparency or due process. So it seems

00:35:19.120 like it is a bigger challenge than just who's at the helm. However, I think I can't help but feeling

00:35:25.840 like that we're reaching this cultural turning point where the left has just pushed us too far

00:35:31.000 in so many ways. And it's been adopted by all of the sort of elite fancy people that hold the same

00:35:36.200 opinion that we're starting to see a bit of a pushback. Maybe that's too optimistic on my behalf,

00:35:43.460 but it's starting to feel like maybe there's a cultural turning point happening. I'll give you the

00:35:48.420 last word to give your thoughts on that. I certainly hope you're right, Candice, that there's

00:35:54.800 a cultural turning point. And I think you've given some great examples of where we have reason to be

00:35:59.640 optimistic. The only thing I would say is that this is a consistent sort of up and down, ebb and flow.

00:36:07.140 And really what conservatives need to do, in my view, especially in Canada, is build institutions,

00:36:12.880 whether it's media organizations and policy organizations like True North, whether it's

00:36:18.720 think tanks or even businesses. Whatever realm of society you're in, having institutions that are

00:36:26.020 going to be steadfast in adhering to conservative principles and making sure that the ebb and flow

00:36:33.440 doesn't leave conservatives without a place to have our voices heard, to make our concerns known to the

00:36:39.940 public, and most importantly, to develop solutions on how we might make the world a better place.

00:36:45.220 I think we need those institutions. And I don't think we should outsource that to Elon Musk. So

00:36:50.480 my hope is that we all just keep, you know, fighting the good fight and building the kind

00:36:54.660 of institutions that can do right by, you know, the working middle class in this country.

00:36:59.780 Oh, that's such a good point. All right, Jamil, thank you so much for joining the show. It's

00:37:03.180 really been great to have you on. I look forward to having you on again. Thank you so much for

00:37:07.160 joining us. That's Jamil Javani. I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is The Candice Malcolm Show.

The Candice Malcolm Show - April 27, 2022

Standing up against the corporate media’s social justice agenda (Ft. Jamil Jivani)

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