The Candice Malcolm Show - Tamara Lich faces 7 YEARS, Liberals push censorship law as CBC execs get raises

00:00:00.000 This is the Candace Malcolm Show. My name is Chris Sims. I'm the Alberta Director for the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.

00:00:09.000 Thank you so much for joining us. Candace, of course, will be back in her hot seat starting tomorrow. 0.99

00:00:15.000 We've got a lot to cover on this show. This show, I would like to say, is fundamentally about things like freedom of expression.

00:00:24.000 Because, of course, if you don't have freedom of speech or freedom of expression, you can't protest the government.

00:00:30.000 You can't defend yourself against the state. You can't speak truth to power.

00:00:35.000 That's one of the reasons the Canadian Taxpayers Federation was fighting so vehemently against things like Bill C-11,

00:00:42.000 which was, of course, an attempt to censor our expression online. That, unfortunately, passed into law.

00:00:48.000 And we've got another big monstrous bill called Bill C-63, which could again curtail your right to free expression.

00:00:56.000 Because if you're at the Taxpayers Federation, how soon will it be that we can't put a bunch of pink pig statues, right, 0.61

00:01:05.000 all across the lawn of Parliament Hill? We call politicians pigs at the trough all the time. 0.97

00:01:11.000 So if you can't properly express yourself and protest the government freely without fear, then you don't have free expression. 0.82

00:01:21.000 And on the other side of this vice grip, if you picture it, okay, on one side, we've got online censorship, crackdown on free expression.

00:01:29.000 On the other side, we have this monster of government funded media.

00:01:34.000 Okay, we've got the CBC, which is, of course, government funded media by definition.

00:01:38.000 But we have a huge portion of mainstream media, which is now also on government payroll.

00:01:45.000 If you break it down like the folks at Black Locks Reporter do, who don't take a cent from government,

00:01:49.000 they do great independent investigative journalism.

00:01:52.000 If you break it down, it works out to close to $30,000 per media company employee for government funding and subsidies and stuff.

00:02:01.000 So this is a huge vice grip on your ability to freely express yourselves, including calling for things like lower taxes, less waste and damn well more accountable government.

00:02:12.000 So this is why shows like this are super important.

00:02:15.000 Speaking of free expression, we've got some breaking news here, and I really wanted to highlight this for you because it just hit online.

00:02:22.000 It's on X, it's on Twitter. Let's pull up Pierre Polyev's tweet here.

00:02:26.000 Investing is all about the future. So what do you think is going to happen?

00:02:31.000 Bitcoin is sort of inevitable at this point.

00:02:33.000 I think it would come down to precious metals.

00:02:36.000 I hope we don't go cashless.

00:02:38.000 I would say land is a safe investment.

00:02:40.000 Technology companies.

00:02:41.000 Solar energy.

00:02:42.000 Robotic pollinators might be a thing. 1.00

00:02:45.000 A wrestler to face a robot. That will have to happen. 0.76

00:02:48.000 So whatever you think is going to happen in the future, you can invest in it at Wealthsimple.

00:02:55.000 Start now at Wealthsimple.com.

00:02:58.000 Quote. So this is, of course, in relation to the sentencing hearing that is happening this week in Ottawa.

00:03:03.000 We had to highlight this because, of course, it's connected to what went down with the Emergencies Act.

00:03:08.000 Quote. Let's get this straight. While rampant violent offenders are released hours after their most recent charges and anti-Semitic rioters vandalize businesses, terrorize daycares and block traffic without consequences,

00:03:20.000 the Crown wants seven years prison time for the charge of mischief for a leech and barber.

00:03:26.000 How is this justice?

00:03:28.000 So Polyev, of course, doesn't have a seat in Parliament right now.

00:03:31.000 He's campaigning for that seat during a by-election out here in Alberta, not too far here from Crowsfoot.

00:03:37.000 I think I've actually got my cousins up there in Stetler.

00:03:40.000 So he's campaigning. He's out on the campaign trail.

00:03:43.000 So he just stopped to tweet this out because, of course, a lot of people are remembering what was going on during the lockdowns,

00:03:50.000 and especially from the taxpayers' perspective, the Emergencies Act.

00:03:55.000 People might remember what happened during the protest in Ottawa is that the government passed the Emergencies Act,

00:04:02.000 which is a new reincarnation of the War Measures Act.

00:04:05.000 Why does that matter to average people?

00:04:08.000 Well, bank accounts got frozen by the government.

00:04:11.000 And this is a problem because this can stem into a chilling effect for other advocacy organizations,

00:04:18.000 for other peaceful protest groups who are standing up to the government.

00:04:22.000 If you start allowing for the government to impose the Emergencies Act when it feels like it,

00:04:28.000 then we start running into major problems of not being able to speak truth to power and to hold government to account.

00:04:34.000 That's why it was so interesting when at the federal court level, Justice Mosley said,

00:04:40.000 No, the Emergencies Act invocation that happened in Ottawa and across Canada, frankly, was unconstitutional.

00:04:47.000 We'll be getting back to that very soon.

00:04:49.000 But again, if you zero in on what we're dealing with in Canada right now,

00:04:54.000 it is the vice grip on one side of online censorship.

00:04:59.000 So things like Bill C-11 and the so-called Online Harms Act of Bill C-63,

00:05:04.000 which is threatening online expression if it's brought back into Parliament.

00:05:08.000 And on the other side, we've got government funded media.

00:05:12.000 And a reminder, the CBC is taking $1.4 billion from taxpayers this year.

00:05:20.000 To put that kind of money into perspective, that kind of money could pay the full-time salaries of about 7,000 paramedics plus 7,000 police officers just this year.

00:05:33.000 It is an astonishing amount of money.

00:05:35.000 People might remember what happened when the CBC was caught handing out massive bonuses.

00:05:42.000 Catherine Tate, the CEO, was dragged in front of committee.

00:05:46.000 We had all parties criticizing the CBC for being tone deaf, handing out big bonuses.

00:05:51.000 And then we had the CBC backpedaling, saying they went on a listening tour and they're going to mend their ways.

00:05:58.000 They're going to stop the bonuses.

00:06:00.000 They're going to stop paying people so much.

00:06:02.000 Well, two things.

00:06:03.000 One, the CEO, the new one, is still at CEO level 7.

00:06:08.000 That new CEO, same as the old CEO.

00:06:11.000 She's still being paid in the range of about half a million dollars per year. 1.00

00:06:15.000 Yes, that is more money than any premier across Canada.

00:06:19.000 And that's the head of the CBC.

00:06:21.000 Second, they said they were going to get rid of the bonuses.

00:06:25.000 But all they did, based on access to information requests that the Canadian Taxpayers Federation has found,

00:06:30.000 here it is.

00:06:31.000 It's right on the website.

00:06:32.000 If you guys go to Juno News, okay?

00:06:34.000 My colleague, Franco Terrazzano, discovered this.

00:06:37.000 The CBC did a sleight of hand.

00:06:39.000 They said we're getting rid of bonuses.

00:06:42.000 Nothing to see here, folks.

00:06:43.000 And then they just cranked up their salaries by like an outrageous amount.

00:06:48.000 Like way more than they ever have in previous years. 1.00

00:06:51.000 So they think you're stupid. 0.99

00:06:53.000 They think that they can just hand out more money and not call it a bonus. 1.00

00:06:57.000 So it won't be a bonus.

00:06:59.000 So it'll be okay.

00:07:00.000 This again gets down to the brass tax of being able to hold the government to account.

00:07:06.000 Because at the end of the day, when you add up all the different layers of government and all the different layers of taxation,

00:07:13.000 they're taking half of your money.

00:07:17.000 Roughly half of your money.

00:07:19.000 To do a little thought experiment, imagine what lands in your bank account.

00:07:23.000 Say you're on salary.

00:07:24.000 Say you get paid every two weeks.

00:07:26.000 Close your eyes and imagine every two weeks, instead of what is landing in your bank account, double it.

00:07:33.000 Double it.

00:07:34.000 Double that amount.

00:07:35.000 Could you afford more nutritious food for your kids? 0.99

00:07:38.000 Could you put them into a better school?

00:07:40.000 Could you save for a down payment for a house?

00:07:42.000 Could you pay off some of your credit card bills?

00:07:44.000 There's a million wonderful things that you could do with your own money if you kept more of it.

00:07:51.000 That's how much the government, various levels of it, are taking from you.

00:07:56.000 That's why it's so important to have our fundamental right of free expression protected in this country.

00:08:03.000 Where are we when it comes to things like the threat against our free expression?

00:08:09.000 Where are we when it comes to things like online censorship and the crackdown against us being able to speak up?

00:08:15.000 Let's find out.

00:08:17.000 Joining me now is Christine Van Gein.

00:08:19.000 She is the litigation director for the Canadian Constitution Foundation.

00:08:23.000 She has her own TV show.

00:08:25.000 Her group has their own podcast.

00:08:26.000 It's called Not Reserving Judgment.

00:08:28.000 I highly recommend that you add this to your kind of smaller government freedom movement podcast list.

00:08:35.000 I know mine is growing by the day.

00:08:37.000 They're a must listen.

00:08:38.000 And of course, her excellent book, Pandemic Panic.

00:08:42.000 Okay, it sits on my bookshelf between Franco Terrazzano's book on the carbon tax and Andrew Lawton's wonderful book.

00:08:49.000 Now, Christine, thank you so much for joining us.

00:08:52.000 I know you've got a lot on your plate.

00:08:55.000 But right off the top, given what's going on in Ottawa, there's probably going to be a big media circus this week.

00:09:01.000 I just wanted you to quickly update our listeners on the Emergencies Act.

00:09:06.000 Because, of course, it was your organization, along with one other, that had that huge win.

00:09:12.000 I would argue, I would argue personally, that that was a game changing win.

00:09:17.000 Like, I always think about it.

00:09:19.000 And that was, of course, the win in federal court.

00:09:22.000 Where in federal court, they said, yeah, no.

00:09:25.000 The Emergencies Act went too far.

00:09:27.000 You can't be freezing people's bank accounts for peaceful protests, all of that.

00:09:31.000 My understanding is the government is appealing this.

00:09:34.000 Can you just give us an update on where that court case stands? 0.88

00:09:37.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:09:38.000 I'd be happy to.

00:09:40.000 And it's always a pleasure to talk to you, Chris.

00:09:42.000 So our group was one of the organizations that challenged the Justin Trudeau government's invocation of the Emergencies Act,

00:09:49.000 an extraordinary piece of legislation that allows the cabinet to make new criminal law by executive order.

00:09:56.000 We challenged the use of that in response to the 2022 Freedom Convoy, which the Rouleau Commission found was notable for its lack of violence.

00:10:06.000 We challenged that in federal court, and Justice Mosley at federal court found that the high threshold to invoke the Emergencies Act had not been met,

00:10:16.000 that there was no threat to the security of Canada, which is part of that standard, that its use was unreasonable.

00:10:24.000 And he found that the regulations created under the Emergencies Act, which included the prohibitions on gatherings across the country, not just in downtown Ottawa, where those protests had went on for quite a while,

00:10:39.000 that these gatherings were across Canada were now criminalized and the regulations freezing bank accounts of around 200 Canadians.

00:10:51.000 Justice Mosley found that those were unconstitutional, that those violated the charter rights of Canadians.

00:10:56.000 This was a massive win for civil liberties in Canada that our organization had spearheaded, and we were thrilled with the result.

00:11:05.000 Obviously, the Trudeau government was not thrilled with the result.

00:11:09.000 They announced their intention to appeal within, I think, you know, 13 minutes, maybe less of the decision, the 200 page decision coming out.

00:11:19.000 So then obviously not really possible to have even read the whole thing before deciding they disagreed with it because it held them accountable.

00:11:27.000 And so the appeal was heard in February in Toronto at the federal court of appeal on a three judge panel.

00:11:35.000 That appeal went on for two days and we're still awaiting the decision.

00:11:38.000 Typically, it takes about six months for a decision to come out.

00:11:41.000 But we do think because this is the first time this extraordinary piece of legislation has ever been used,

00:11:47.000 that it will take a little bit longer than the six months we usually expect.

00:11:52.000 And also, this is a federal court matter or federal court of appeal matter.

00:11:56.000 So you add in a little bit of time because they translate these decisions and release them at the same time in English and in French.

00:12:03.000 So add a little bit of time there.

00:12:05.000 So we might get one decision before the end of the year, but we might not.

00:12:09.000 But whenever we get it, what we're hoping for is another win for the fundamental freedoms of Canadians.

00:12:15.000 Well, we're in your corner, obviously, because if you can't protest the government peacefully,

00:12:20.000 as the justice pointed out, you have no freedom of expression.

00:12:24.000 Then what are we in this for?

00:12:25.000 That's really kind of game over unless you want to start some underground speakeasy.

00:12:29.000 I mean, I love Art Deco style, but I don't want to have to go to that in order to protest the government.

00:12:33.000 In all seriousness, I did want to stress, like I've covered court from everything from parking tickets

00:12:38.000 up to the Supreme Court.

00:12:39.000 What I found very interesting about Mosley's decision when I read it was I'm paraphrasing him.

00:12:44.000 So forgive me.

00:12:45.000 But he said something along the lines of I went into this thinking one way that I was going to kind of rule, you know, on the other side.

00:12:53.000 But it was the strength of the arguments from those who were intervening, including your organization, Christine, that changed my mind.

00:13:02.000 Yeah, we weren't intervening.

00:13:04.000 We were we were the party.

00:13:06.000 But yeah, absolutely.

00:13:08.000 It shows the importance of public interest litigation by groups, charities like the CCF, because if we hadn't brought this,

00:13:16.000 I don't think that we would have had the result we had today.

00:13:19.000 I mean, Justice Mosley basically said as much in his decision.

00:13:22.000 And it's very validating to hear that from a judge.

00:13:25.000 We often get decisions we don't like from the courts.

00:13:28.000 And this one really for us was something we're really proud of.

00:13:33.000 But but more than that, it was the right decision and it guaranteed these really core rights that Canadians have.

00:13:40.000 This is a really, really huge piece of legislation that that is so easy to abuse.

00:13:46.000 It's it's in emergency situations that governments tend to overreact and grab more power and do things that violate civil liberties.

00:13:56.000 Emergencies are generally the greatest threat to civil liberties of anything that can happen.

00:14:01.000 It's when governments do these kinds of things.

00:14:04.000 So we really need to make it clear what this legislation can do.

00:14:08.000 And that the Emergencies Act, keep in mind, replaced another piece of legislation.

00:14:13.000 The War Measures Act that had been abused by Justin Trudeau's own father, Pierre Elliott Trudeau, during the October crisis.

00:14:20.000 And not to downplay what happened in the October crisis.

00:14:25.000 I mean, there there was violence, including a murder.

00:14:30.000 But nothing that happened in the convoy rose to the level of what happened during the the abuse of the War Measures Act in the October crisis, where hundreds of people were arrested.

00:14:43.000 Homes were searched without warrants.

00:14:44.000 People were detained without habeas corpus.

00:14:46.000 And the court that I mean, the outcome in the War Measures Act was everyone sort of agrees that that piece of legislation was over the top, that its use was overkill.

00:14:58.000 And the Emergencies Act was created in response to that.

00:15:01.000 It came with all these bells and whistles and thresholds and things that the government needed to do to demonstrate its use against civilians in a public order emergency was justified.

00:15:11.000 And Trudeau's son, Justin Trudeau, just blew through all of that.

00:15:18.000 So much so that there was opposition from within his own party.

00:15:22.000 I know a lot of us were talking in what I would call the freedom movement or small, more accountable government movement at the time.

00:15:28.000 And there was a lot of dissension in the ranks, even in the Senate.

00:15:31.000 So like that was not a very comfortable situation, to put it mildly.

00:15:34.000 I wanted to briefly touch on something quickly before we move on to Bill C-63, that it doesn't even need to be something as dramatic and frightening as getting your bank account frozen for a government to try to take advantage of emergencies.

00:15:47.000 We just recently saw the provincial government in British Columbia try something kind of mundane, but which would have really hurt taxpayers and voters in British Columbia.

00:15:56.000 And that was basically saying something to the effect of, oh, well, the tariff war is like a real war.

00:16:02.000 And so it's an emergency. And so we should be able to basically do whatever we want, including major spending bills with no oversight in the legislature in Victoria, just using the emergency cloak as an ability to override people's rights.

00:16:18.000 And so to your point exactly, Christine, it's when the government starts talking about declaring an emergency that the average person really needs to be careful and watch them like hawks, because that's usually a dinner bell where they're going to try to grab more power and ultimately take more of your money.

00:16:35.000 I wanted to move to Bill C-63 here because everybody's in kind of the summer mode.

00:16:40.000 You know, Pierre Polyev doesn't have a seat right now. They're all waiting to see what happens at the by-election.

00:16:45.000 To me, this kind of feels like, you know, the phony war moment. They haven't quite gotten down to brass tacks.

00:16:50.000 If and when this all comes back together in the fall, as people are expecting it to, where is Bill C-63?

00:16:57.000 Like for a quick reminder for people, when we last left off, correct me if I'm wrong, Bill C-63 was this weird chimeric hybrid,

00:17:06.000 where on one side it was about online harms and protecting children against images of childhood sexual abuse online.

00:17:13.000 Also some really crazy stuff that people are doing with deep fakes, which is super disturbing.

00:17:19.000 But next to it was this strange sort of, you know, futuristic sort of minority report-esque thing of like,

00:17:28.000 if you say something online that offends another person, they can anonymously report you and you can be put under house arrest for it.

00:17:35.000 Like the other part of that bill sounded so far-fetched to me that I had trouble believing what I was reading.

00:17:42.000 Where are we with this bill? Is there a chance Carney could just like squelch it and not bring it back?

00:17:48.000 So Bill C-63 is dead.

00:17:51.000 Okay.

00:17:52.000 It was killed in the last parliament when it was prorogued.

00:17:55.000 And with a new parliament, it would need to be reintroduced.

00:17:58.000 I think that there might be some procedural way to bring it back, but I think it would have to be on unanimous consent.

00:18:04.000 And honestly, I'm not like a parliamentary procedure geek, so I'm not 100% sure.

00:18:09.000 But my understanding is they would probably almost certainly have to reintroduce it from scratch.

00:18:14.000 They really were hammered on this bill by civil liberties groups like ours at the Canadian Constitution Foundation.

00:18:20.000 The bill essentially had three parts.

00:18:22.000 The first part were changes to the criminal law that would have created higher penalties for hate speech offenses,

00:18:31.000 including the possibility of life imprisonment for hate-related offenses or hate-motivated offenses.

00:18:40.000 The problems with this could include, for example, overcharging by prosecutors.

00:18:47.000 So if a young person engages in some hateful graffiti, they could be charged with vandalism.

00:18:56.000 But on top of that, they could be also charged with hate-motivated vandalism, which then carries a much higher penalty.

00:19:02.000 And of course, we should put people in the criminal process if they're engaging in crime.

00:19:07.000 But the risk of overcharging is a real one.

00:19:11.000 And the risk of getting someone who might not even be guilty of an offense to plead out

00:19:17.000 because now the prosecutor has this hammer of this potential life imprisonment for an otherwise minor offense, that's a big problem.

00:19:25.000 That's a big problem in the criminal law system already.

00:19:28.000 And this would have exacerbated it.

00:19:30.000 The other issue in the criminal law amendments was that sort of minority report issue that you had described.

00:19:37.000 So what this involved were peace bonds, which is sort of a prior restraint on an individual that restrains them from doing some future act.

00:19:47.000 And if there were, if a member of the public believed some person was going to commit some future hate speech offense, they could apply to the, I think it's the Attorney General, who could then have a peace bond applied to this individual to do all kinds of things that restrain that person from doing things, including house arrest or ankle monitors and things like that.

00:20:14.000 For a speech offense that they have not even committed, but that they might commit in the future.

00:20:21.000 We obviously have problems with that type of that type of thing.

00:20:25.000 Now, the second part of the online harms bill related to regulations of online platforms that would have put obligations on platforms for things like online hate speech or online bullying, which have this risk of, first of all, would have created a whole new, huge, giant bureaucracy at a time when this government's bureaucracy is already absolutely out of control.

00:20:53.000 And then it would have created a chilling effect on these platforms.

00:20:58.000 So all kinds of speech that might not rise to the level of hatred or a hate crime, but which is objectionable, which frankly is a lot of speech that you see online, might get proactively taken down by platforms because of their fear of financial penalty by this new giant regulator.

00:21:16.000 Now, the third part of Bill 63 was the child protection provisions, which deal with higher penalties and new reporting obligations for child sexual abuse imagery, which I think everyone agrees would have passed ununanimous consent if that part of the bill had been split off.

00:21:35.000 I think the conservatives had said that they would have voted to support that.

00:21:39.000 I don't think any of us at the civil liberties movement disagree with that.

00:21:44.000 I think child welfare and child protection is something that's incredibly important.

00:21:48.000 important.

00:21:49.000 I think that this government, if they had been actually serious about protecting children, they would have just split this part of the bill off and had it passed by itself without tying it to these controversial and probably unconstitutional aspects of the bill.

00:22:05.000 And also they might just put child sex offenders in jail and stop enacting legislation or doing things that allow for lower sentences for child sex abusers.

00:22:19.000 Big time. And to your point exactly, I've been in the game for a long time.

00:22:23.000 I've been a staffer, been a reporter, mostly worked as a court reporter.

00:22:28.000 And what got me when this first came out, other than obviously the huge chilling effect that I would say this would have on free expression.

00:22:35.000 And again, if you can't speak up for yourself, including things like criticizing the government, like we use pig statues. 0.89

00:22:42.000 We call government pigs all the time. 0.98

00:22:44.000 We call out the carbon tax as being, you know, a load of bull. 0.97

00:22:47.000 People get really upset about that kind of stuff.

00:22:50.000 And that's OK for them to be offended by what we say.

00:22:52.000 That's free expression.

00:22:54.000 The other part that that struck me was just how disingenuous and calculating it was to tack on protecting children to an otherwise really problematic law, proposed law.

00:23:07.000 I don't know anyone who doesn't want tougher crimes, at least tougher sentencing, tougher consequences for people who hurt kids.

00:23:15.000 And just telling a little war story.

00:23:17.000 I remember back when I was at Sun News Network and then the prime minister of the day, Stephen Harper, had mandatory minimums for things like child sexual abuse.

00:23:26.000 And I think the mandatory minimum for an adult sexually abusing a child was something crazy.

00:23:31.000 It was like 12 months or like 18 months.

00:23:34.000 And people were still freaking out about the fact that there is even a mandatory minimum.

00:23:39.000 So to turn around and have the same sort of crowd say, oh, well, this is all about protecting children while we're threatening your right to free expression.

00:23:48.000 I just found that really disingenuous.

00:23:50.000 It just seems cynical.

00:23:52.000 It's cynical.

00:23:53.000 It's to inoculate themselves against criticism for their otherwise unconstitutional bill so they can hold up the child protective aspects of the bill and say, but think about the children.

00:24:04.000 This bill is about protecting children when really they are using abused children as a shield for their unconstitutional censorship law.

00:24:15.000 I mean, pass the part of the bill that relates to children and drop the rest of it.

00:24:21.000 And in fact, that was where the government, the Trudeau government was heading when this was when Parliament was prorogued.

00:24:28.000 They dropped the first part of the bill, the criminal law provisions, but they kept the rest of it.

00:24:34.000 The the the online regulation bureaucracy problems were still going to be there, but at least they dropped the criminal provisions.

00:24:42.000 Frankly, I think that the Carney government, I don't know that they want to spend political capital on that when the Trudeau government really took a beating from civil liberties groups over it across the spectrum.

00:24:55.000 There are civil liberties groups on on the on the left and on the right and on the center who all disagreed with those criminal law changes.

00:25:03.000 I think that the Carney government might introduce something related to bubble zones.

00:25:09.000 So I don't think they've talked about that. It was in their platform.

00:25:12.000 Those are likely unconstitutional laws that they're, you know, sort of flirting with and considering introducing.

00:25:19.000 So I don't think that they are a free speech party, this government.

00:25:23.000 But I think that those criminal prohibitions that were contemplated in C63, my sincere hope is that they are dead and are not coming back.

00:25:32.000 I was just wanted to touch on that quickly.

00:25:35.000 A friend of mine called Trudeau's bills like this, his ideology vision quest that he was on in many, in many cases, an ideological quest.

00:25:44.000 I don't see Carney as the same sort of cat.

00:25:47.000 Now he's got a horrendous plan to blow the budget.

00:25:50.000 He's got a horrendous plan to pile on the debt.

00:25:52.000 There's a whole lot of issues we have with him trying to ban the sale of regular cars and trucks.

00:25:56.000 There's a billion things that I'd criticize him on.

00:25:59.000 But my sense from him is that he's a bit more pragmatic.

00:26:04.000 That he doesn't, to your point, want to spend a lot of political capital on this.

00:26:08.000 Do you think that there's, if you were a betting lady, would you bet that he's going to just introduce the child protection elements within the criminal code and adjustment under the justice ministry and leave the rest of this out?

00:26:22.000 I think that he's going to introduce legislation on bubble zones, which is a different issue on free speech.

00:26:28.000 I don't think he's going to reintroduce the criminal code prohibitions on hate speech, but I could be wrong.

00:26:34.000 I just don't have enough information about Mark Carney and what he believes on freedom of expression issues to have any sense of where he's going to go.

00:26:44.000 He just seems like the type who has a belief that you should do what's right and proper and just be nice and don't offend people.

00:26:54.000 And unfortunately, that's not a very free speech orientation because the whole point of freedom of expression is that you can say things that bother people and that upset people and that offend people.

00:27:06.000 Even if it is not consistent with, you know, elite British sensitive sensibility.

00:27:13.000 Yes, we have to be able to offend people. I really wanted to quickly touch on what's going on in Ottawa this week with sentencing.

00:27:21.000 And I know that your group is not representing an individual here, but you guys did, again, amazing work fighting the Emergencies Act.

00:27:28.000 Your book, Pandemic Panic, again, is a must read for anybody who's freedom oriented.

00:27:33.000 Did you have any thoughts on what's going on here with the proposals of like a seven year prison sentence for a possible mischief conviction?

00:27:41.000 Just in my personal experience being a court reporter, I don't remember there being an actual sentencing for mischief.

00:27:49.000 However, I have heard it threatened before because in the criminal code, there is kind of a hefty sentencing provision in there for mischief convictions.

00:27:58.000 Did you have any thoughts on what's going on in Ottawa?

00:28:01.000 I know we have to be careful because, again, it is before the courts.

00:28:04.000 And I would advise everybody to be a little bit more careful with how they're talking about this before sentencing happens.

00:28:09.000 Yeah. So you're alluding to the sentencing of Tamara Leach or Leach.

00:28:14.000 And look, we're not representing her.

00:28:17.000 We didn't represent any individuals who were charged related to the Freedom Convoy movement.

00:28:21.000 We were a public interest litigant.

00:28:23.000 I just broadly would say that a first time offender with a low likelihood to reoffend on a charge of mischief seven years seems just pretty bonkers as a request.

00:28:38.000 I just don't see the rationale for that.

00:28:42.000 Yeah.

00:28:43.000 Yeah.

00:28:44.000 That's all I'd say on it.

00:28:46.000 Yeah.

00:28:47.000 We're not involved in any of those cases, but that seems like overkill big time.

00:28:53.000 Yeah.

00:28:54.000 I think anybody who's been a court reporter, again, who sat there and watched, I mean, I've seen like repeat arsonists just walk out of court.

00:29:02.000 You know, it's pretty wild.

00:29:04.000 I encourage people, by the way, it is your right as an individual and as a citizen to peacefully sit in and watch most court cases.

00:29:11.000 A lot of people don't know that, but it is absolutely your right to sit in the public gallery so long as it's not in camera and there's a special thing.

00:29:18.000 You can't record.

00:29:20.000 No.

00:29:21.000 There are limitations on what you can do.

00:29:23.000 You can't, you know, interrupt.

00:29:25.000 Yeah.

00:29:26.000 Don't podcast from there, please.

00:29:28.000 Don't.

00:29:29.000 And don't become the story, but you can silently witness it.

00:29:32.000 It's part of having an open court system.

00:29:34.000 I wanted to get to something that I hope is more fun, but I haven't braced myself because I haven't watched the footage.

00:29:40.000 But apparently we have footage of this.

00:29:42.000 So correct.

00:29:43.000 Stop me if I'm wrong.

00:29:45.000 There's this dude in Mississauga, Ontario.

00:29:48.000 Correct.

00:29:49.000 He had a front lawn that people got all butthurt about because they didn't like what he was doing with their lawn.

00:29:54.000 I don't think that was the terminology that the city staff were used, but that's okay.

00:29:58.000 And then the city ripped it up because his lawn wasn't up to spec.

00:30:02.000 Like, tell us about this.

00:30:04.000 What is going on?

00:30:05.000 Yeah.

00:30:06.000 So for background, so people understand there's something called the naturalized garden movement.

00:30:11.000 And these are people who have a different aesthetic preference.

00:30:15.000 They don't want their front lawn or their back lawn to look like a manicured rose garden or rose of hydrangeas or something that is more typical of what you would see in a suburban residential garden.

00:30:30.000 They like wild flowers.

00:30:33.000 They like their garden to look like a forest or a meadow or just embracing the native plants that grow in their community rather than importing plants from another place.

00:30:46.000 That this ended up creating an environment for native wildlife, for butterflies, dragonflies and a habitat that is good for the environment.

00:30:59.000 And this type of gardening is it's an aesthetic preference, but it's also a political viewpoint about ecology, about the environment, about human beings interaction with the environment.

00:31:11.000 And there are a series of cases related to, you know, nosy neighbors who don't like the wildflower meadow that grows beside their rows of hydrangeas.

00:31:23.000 And so a lot of cities have bylaws about tall grass and weeds.

00:31:28.000 And there are a series of cases where municipalities have enforced those bylaws by coming onto that private property and ripping out the garden, mowing it all down, cutting the whole thing down.

00:31:39.000 And one of the first cases is from the 1990s involving a woman named Sandy Bell.

00:31:45.000 The bylaw at issue, the Toronto bylaw at issue in that case was found to be a violation of the charter, that her garden is an expression of her belief about what is beautiful and about about nature.

00:31:58.000 And she's entitled to those beliefs.

00:32:00.000 And her beliefs were not harming anyone in any way.

00:32:03.000 Her growing her golden rod and milkweed was not interfering with anyone else's safety.

00:32:09.000 And we have a similar situation now in Mississauga with a homeowner named Wolf Ruck, who has had his garden reported by an anonymous neighbor multiple times.

00:32:22.000 The city has come multiple times.

00:32:24.000 I think three years in a row now have have twice mowed it down and are trying to mow it down a third time.

00:32:30.000 And it's all about your aesthetic taste.

00:32:34.000 It's all about imposing what the government thinks is beautiful onto another person's property, his private property that he owns, that he has spent years trying to cultivate this sort of wild meadow habitat for animals, insects and native plants.

00:32:56.000 So we intervened in his case at Superior Court to challenge this bylaw and stand up for Wolf's right to express himself and his beliefs about what's beautiful.

00:33:08.000 The city even said that the purpose of this bylaw is about aesthetic beauty and no one gets to decide what's beautiful.

00:33:15.000 We all have different tastes.

00:33:17.000 I don't want the government telling me what is beautiful because I might have a different opinion and I probably do.

00:33:23.000 Yeah, it's not as if this guy, from what I can tell from that video, has like four junked cars in the front lawn.

00:33:30.000 Absolutely not.

00:33:31.000 Absolutely not. 0.89

00:33:32.000 Squirrel reefs for squirrels or some crap. 0.77

00:33:34.000 Like that is not the case. 0.68

00:33:35.000 And I can see even in that video, those are native grasses because I'm one of those people.

00:33:40.000 My front lawn is full of wild flowers. 0.96

00:33:42.000 You criminal, Chris. 0.91

00:33:43.000 I know. 0.99

00:33:44.000 Don't come after me.

00:33:45.000 Thank goodness I'm in Lethbridge, God's country.

00:33:47.000 Imagine if somebody tried to tell you what to do with your property in Lethbridge.

00:33:50.000 Like it's full of clover and wild flowers and corn flowers, those little blue ones because it's native prairie and some prairie grass, lots of water for the birds.

00:34:01.000 And like it's that's how it looks.

00:34:03.000 Now, I have little fences around it and I keep it trimmed around the edges.

00:34:06.000 But yeah, it's not like a carpet of green with perfectly clipped roses.

00:34:11.000 But again, those look beautiful.

00:34:12.000 I walk around my neighborhood and I love my neighbor's yards.

00:34:15.000 I just really think it's important personally to support bees, especially, and native birds.

00:34:21.000 The irony is that these governments have their own policies promoting this.

00:34:26.000 But then like the the the boulevards have this exact type of this exact style of garden with milkweed and goldenrod and tall grasses like on Wolfe's property.

00:34:38.000 It's their own policy, their pollinator friendly garden policy.

00:34:41.000 And there are fields throughout these cities, including Mississauga with an uncut grass and wild meadows.

00:34:50.000 But only when a nosy neighbor complains does it get enforced on his private property, which, by the way, he's then sent a bill for a few thousand dollars to pay for this work that destroyed his property.

00:35:07.000 It's completely inappropriate.

00:35:09.000 And just leave this man alone and let him grow his plants. 0.69

00:35:13.000 This makes me so friggin mad because I will bet you that Mississauga has not had a huge property tax cut, you know, descending over the last 10 years out on a limb here.

00:35:24.000 Like this is why people get so mad at local government.

00:35:27.000 We generally expect our local governments to keep our streets safe and in good repair.

00:35:33.000 End of list.

00:35:34.000 They don't want them going onto people's property, destroying bee habitat.

00:35:37.000 They don't want them saving the world.

00:35:39.000 They don't want them putting in, you know, bike lanes through the middle of the major highway zones. 1.00

00:35:43.000 Like this is so stupid and what a crazy waste of money. 1.00

00:35:46.000 All right. 1.00

00:35:47.000 Where does this stand right now?

00:35:48.000 Like what's the where is it in the meandering court case labyrinth?

00:35:52.000 Yeah, so it we we actually have intervened twice now.

00:35:55.000 So we went to the Court of Appeal where it was kicked back to lower court.

00:36:01.000 And we were heard two weeks ago, I think now at Superior Court where we intervene to argue about these freedom of expression issues.

00:36:11.000 So we argued in our intervention that a government claiming that it has standards for aesthetic beauty on your property is not a valid purpose for a law to limit your rights.

00:36:26.000 The government needs to be limiting them for what's called a valid public purpose.

00:36:29.000 And that just isn't one.

00:36:31.000 Just the very notion of government deciding what is aesthetically beautiful.

00:36:36.000 This makes me want to bark for your own property.

00:36:38.000 I actually think they should have standards for their own government buildings.

00:36:42.000 They should maybe try to make them look nice and of ugly, you know, balancing that against cost.

00:36:49.000 But they don't get to decide what's beautiful for your property.

00:36:54.000 That's a big problem here.

00:36:55.000 They're trying to come on your property and say, we don't like your garden and we're going to come and cut it down and then charge you for it.

00:37:02.000 Destroying this habitat.

00:37:04.000 He has animals living in this garden.

00:37:07.000 He has rabbits and chipmunks and animals that live there and destroying the habitat for them.

00:37:14.000 And cutting down these plants right in the middle of their pollination season.

00:37:18.000 Cool.

00:37:19.000 Gross. 0.99

00:37:20.000 Absolutely gross.

00:37:21.000 Now, Christine, I don't know if I'm telling tales out of school, but did you want to mention your new book that's coming out this fall?

00:37:26.000 Is that generally?

00:37:27.000 No, it's not.

00:37:28.000 I haven't made a formal announcement yet, but I'll tell your viewers because I think that they'd be really interested in this.

00:37:33.000 So we have a book coming out this fall, September 2nd, about freedom of expression and it's for children.

00:37:40.000 And it sort of tells the story of it's based on these garden stories.

00:37:46.000 So it's about a little girl who wants to grow a garden and the city comes and cuts it down and then she tries to protest and the city tells her she's not allowed to protest.

00:37:55.000 She tries to go to city hall and they tell her she can't have a sign in city council chambers.

00:38:01.000 We've been working on some litigation about that as well.

00:38:04.000 She tries to put up posters around the city and the city says that's not allowed either.

00:38:09.000 These are all based on real Canadian case law about freedom of expression.

00:38:13.000 And in the end, the court sides with her and says that you have a right to freedom of expression that's guaranteed under the Charter and the government can't interfere with that in a way that isn't justified.

00:38:26.000 And it's illustrated by a Canadian artist who I actually grew up with, who had her own sort of as an artist cancellation attempts against her.

00:38:37.000 So she really understands the importance of freedom of expression in in our culture.

00:38:43.000 The great irony is trying to cancel an artist, right, who are supposed to be the in the industry where you can speak truth to power and coming at you for expression, expressing yourself and trying to have you canceled for expressing yourself as an artist is especially egregious.

00:39:00.000 But it's beautifully, beautifully illustrated. And the reason I wanted to write this book is because my husband's American.

00:39:09.000 I'll go to the United States sometimes and we'll go to a historic site. And, you know, when you exit through the gift shop, you always walk through and you see all these different items for children about America's rich constitutional history.

00:39:22.000 And these are books, picture books for children that are in every American museum shop.

00:39:28.000 And we in Canada have an incredibly rich constitutional history and incredible case law and protections for free expression.

00:39:37.000 And we should embrace that and celebrate it and teach our children about these protections from an early age.

00:39:43.000 I'm so thrilled that I have an opportunity to do that with this new children's book.

00:39:47.000 So it's called Maple's Garden and it's going to launch on September 2nd and you can preorder it on Amazon right now.

00:39:55.000 So if you search up Maple's Garden on Amazon, you'll find it.

00:39:59.000 And yeah, if you buy it and help me out, we might end up on the Toronto Star bestseller list like Pandemic Panic.

00:40:08.000 My last book did much, I think, perhaps the chagrin of the star.

00:40:14.000 But I think people of every persuasion need to understand the value of freedom of expression, starting with children.

00:40:21.000 I love this for a few reasons.

00:40:23.000 One, that you're releasing it on Atlas Shrugged Day, September 2nd.

00:40:26.000 I didn't even make that connection.

00:40:28.000 It's OK. We nerds have your back.

00:40:30.000 We nerds have your back. 1.00

00:40:31.000 And then also that you're tackling this from different angles because it's easy or I guess I should say it's kind of comfortable,

00:40:38.000 like, you know, soft, supple shoe leather to just get mad about things all the time.

00:40:42.000 And I totally understand why people get mad all the time.

00:40:44.000 I wake up mad most of the time.

00:40:46.000 But we really do need to embrace some art, have some joy and especially teach our kids about this stuff,

00:40:53.000 because otherwise we're just ripe for the picking.

00:40:56.000 Christine Van Gein, Litigation Director for the Canadian Constitution Foundation and Freedom Fighter.

00:41:01.000 Thank you so much for joining us on the show here on Juneau.

00:41:04.000 Awesome. It was a pleasure.

00:41:06.000 That was an outstanding conversation.

00:41:08.000 Thank you again so much to the Canadian Constitution Foundation and all the other great advocacy organizations

00:41:14.000 that are arguing for smaller, more accountable government.

00:41:17.000 Folks, we have to walk the walk here. 0.63

00:41:20.000 OK, we have to support organizations that matter because the government is funding organizations quite often who are on the other side of these sorts of issues.

00:41:31.000 OK, so if the government is taking your money and handing it to media organizations,

00:41:36.000 it's super important for those of us who care about accountability, a free press and free expression to support the groups who are fighting for you.

00:41:47.000 Juneau News is one of those become a subscriber, spread the word, share the message with your friends and family.

00:41:54.000 Head on over to JuneauNews.com and join the fight.

00:41:58.000 And join the fight.

00:41:59.000 And join the fight.

00:42:00.000 And join the fight.

00:42:05.000 Thank you.

00:42:06.000 See you then.

00:42:16.000 Good afternoon.

00:42:17.000 Looks super good.

00:42:18.000 Thank you for joining us.

00:42:19.000 Good afternoon.

00:42:20.000 Looks so good.

00:42:21.000 What's the�� 때� În over to Juneau?

00:42:22.000 Looks super cool.

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00:42:24.000 And clip foi Wright Hewma Roots Yeah.

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The Candice Malcolm Show - July 21, 2025

Tamara Lich faces 7 YEARS, Liberals push censorship law as CBC execs get raises

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