The one group of people Canadians openly discriminate against： the unvaccinated
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Summary
In this episode, we are joined by Samuel Say, a scholar and writer based in Brampton, Ontario, to talk about the impact of mandatory vaccines in Canada, and how he started a campaign to bring awareness to the issue.
Transcript
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Thousands of Canadians have lost their jobs, their education, and their well-being as a result of
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vaccine mandates and vaccine passports. They're the one group in society we are now allowed to
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denigrate, demonize, and scapegoat. And the legacy media refuses to report on the devastating effects
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of these mandatory vaccines, but we at True North were willing to do that.
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I'm Candice Malcolm and this is The Candice Malcolm Show.
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Hi everyone, thank you so much for tuning in. You know, if you watch the legacy media,
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if you tune into the CBC, you would see a lot of scapegoating of the unvaccinated. You would see
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very visceral reactions. There is an infamous now Toronto Star front page headline that said,
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let them die. I can't imagine any other group in society being treated the way that our society
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has been treating the unvaccinated, treating them as if they're barely human, that they don't have
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the same rights and freedoms as the rest of us. And according to our law now, they don't. They don't
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have the same rights and the same freedoms as other Canadians, even though they are Canadians.
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One of the most shocking things of the 2021 federal election this year was the way that Trudeau was
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openly bashing these Canadians, like as if they weren't actually Canadian citizens, as if they didn't
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deserve the same dignity, respect and rights as other Canadians. It was disturbing to see. And again,
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no other group would be treated this way, no other group. And so to talk about this today,
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I wanted to bring back Samuel Say. We had him on the show yesterday and this is an area that he's
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really good at as well. So I invited him to come on again today. So if you don't know Samuel, you should
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really check him out. He runs the website slow2write.com. He's a scholar and a writer based in Brampton,
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Ontario. And he has a lot of areas of expertise. Usually he's out there investigating and critiquing
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critical race theory and talking about biblical theory. But one of the things that he did that
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was really, really useful and interesting was that he created a long form piece of writing about people
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and their individual stories of how they've been affected, how their freedom has been upended
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because of the vaccine mandates and their own personal unwillingness to get vaccinated.
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Really heartbreaking story. So first of all, Samuel, thank you so much for joining the Canada's
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Welcome Show again today. Thank you for having me again. I appreciate it.
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Okay. So why don't you tell us, first of all, how did this idea come to fruition? So really, you put
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out an open call and you heard back from a lot of Canadians. So how did this idea come up and tell
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us a little bit about it? Yeah. Well, it started because I've been following just the lockdowns and
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especially the vaccine issue. And I was very concerned already that a number of, you know,
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black people that I know a lot of my family and friends would be heavily impacted by the vaccine
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mandates. And I was just thinking about how, you know, last year, our federal and provincial governments
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talked about how they, they care about black lives matter and everything else. And yet they're about
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to push a mandate that would disproportionately harm black people. And I was really bothered by that
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hypocrisy. And then I reached out to a good friend of mine now, Jamil Giovanni, who was an author and
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a radio host. And he is the Ontario government advocate for community opportunities. So I said,
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look, Hey, this is in your area. Doug Ford hired you for this. I would love to have maybe
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do something with you on this. And he's a great guy. He said, you know what, let's think of something.
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And then he mentioned, you know, Sam, maybe we should have a place on your website to have people
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share their stories on how the vaccine mandates are harming them. And then we will share it with the
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Ontario government and then see how they re how they respond to that. And I can't go in detail,
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actually, but we know that it did have some impact. Some of these stories have had an impact
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in their mandates, as much as we don't like the mandates, we know it could have been much worse,
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if not for these stories that we were able to able to collect. So then I ended up, you know,
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creating a space on my on my blog, slow to write for people to share their stories. And we've received
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over 100 entries so far from people across mostly Ontario, but across all of Canada sharing how
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these mandates are harming their lives. You know, it's really interesting, it's rarely reported that
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vaccine hesitancy is highest in black indigenous communities. And, you know, we had you on the show
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yesterday, and we talked all about critical race theory. And we know that so many of these initiatives
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are sort of, in theory, at least designed to help black indigenous people, you know, realize a greater
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level of opportunity in our society. And yet, at the exact same time as they're advocating,
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some people in the lab are advocating for these, you know, woke ideological
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ideas, like critical race theory, or the ideas that come from critical race theory.
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At the same time, those are some of the loudest voices advocating for really heavy handed measures
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against unvaccinated. Is there a disconnect here? Like, do the people advocating not realize
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who the unvaccinated people in large part are? Or, I know, Doug Ford, first, you resisted the
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idea of a vaccine mandate, so you didn't want to create a split society. And yet, you know, that's
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sort of what we're what we have at this point. So, yeah, I wonder if you could just address that?
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Yeah, well, last year, I didn't believe them. And I don't believe them this year as well,
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that they don't care about Black Lives Matter. They don't care about black people, anything like that.
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I'm not saying they're racist. I'm just saying that it's all just politics. They'll say anything
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they need to say to win elections. So, last year, when, you know, I mean, Trudeau went to the Black
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Lives Matter rally and bent his knee, admitting that Canada is systemically racist. Well, that would
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mean then that he is saying that he is the leader of a racist system. That would be him saying that he
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is a racist. He doesn't really believe that. Of course he doesn't. He's just saying that because
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he thinks that's what's best for him to do politically. And the same...
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Well, he also said that he believed that Canada was committing genocide.
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Not that we did commit genocide, not that Canada committed genocide in the past,
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but that Canada is currently committing genocide. So, him admitting that would be admitting that he
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is a genocidal prime minister, which, you know, is pretty wild that he admitted that and then he
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got away with it. The media just gave a pass about that. But anyway, I'll let you continue because I
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interrupted you. Virtuously. It's really bizarre. We live in a society where, you know, the way to get
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to be seen as a virtuous person is to admit that you're a homo person, even though you don't really mean it.
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That's just our society right now. So, in the same way, you know, the reason why they're doing
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what they're doing, even though they know it's harming mostly black people or not mostly, but
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it's a personal number of black people or just people, it's because they know what's best for
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them. At least they think it's best for them politically to be doing this anyway.
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So, can you tell us some of the, I mean, I read through some of the stories. I have to admit,
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I didn't read them all because I found them pretty just heartbreaking, frankly, to read.
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But can you share some of the, like, the gist of some of them or some of the ones that you found
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particularly difficult to read? Absolutely. Some of the most, there are a lot. I've read every single
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one of them and it's been difficult. It's difficult to read them because people are sharing their
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their difficult, difficult stories. So, there are many immigrants who've mentioned how
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they left their countries, they left a communist or oppressive regime to come to Canada for freedom.
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And then now they're thinking, what do they come here for? Because the same things that were
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happening, well, the same things they saw in their original nations are not being happening,
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are happening here, where they're not being treated as second-class citizens. I heard from,
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from nurses who were like, you know, at the beginning of this pandemic, they're being referred
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to as heroes. But now they're being told, at the time anyway, that if you don't get vaccinated,
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not only are you not a hero, you're not, you know, you're not worthy of working, working for us.
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I've also heard from those one person in particular that was especially heartbreaking for me.
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This person has a history of, I think she's just 18 or 19 years old, she has a history of autoimmune
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disease in her family, and she herself has an autoimmune disease. And she is supposed to be in her
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I think in her second or last year of university, she would be the first person in her family
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to get a degree. Her parents are both, you know, ill and they're not able to provide
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suicide past the next few years. So they've been relying on her to finish her degree so that she
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can provide for the family. And now because she can't get the vaccine because of her autoimmune,
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you know, disease, she's not able to continue her studies right now. And she was telling me she's
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depressed. And many people have been saying that their mental health have suffered greatly, that she's
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depressed, she's crying every day, she has no hope. And it's deeply concerning. We know that mental
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health and suicide has increased dramatically over the last couple of years over this. And I'm deeply
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worried reading some of the stories about younger people and older people suffering in light of all
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this. I also heard people who didn't want to take the vaccine because of their concerns about how it
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would affect them, but because they were forced to into doing so because of their jobs or school, they
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ended up having really bad adverse reactions from it. And, you know, so the stories are very difficult to read.
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Well, it's really excellent journalism that you're doing over there. And it's sort of surprising that
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the legacy media doesn't do this kind of thing, because we don't we don't see any sympathy whatsoever.
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In fact, we see the opposite, we see sort of drumming up negativity and demonization. Obviously,
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we saw it a lot during election, we continue to see it. And it's just sort of, you know,
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par for the course for the legacy media. What do you think it is about the media,
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Samuel, that make them so one sided on this issue, you know, so relentless in their sort of badgering
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that the Canadians must all do this, this thing. And just full disclosure, and viewers know this,
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I'm vaccinated, I decided to do it mostly because I just wanted to get back to regular life. And even
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after doing it, it's like, we're never going to get back to regular life. You know, we did this
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because we were told that if we did it, you wouldn't have to wear a mask anymore, you could travel more
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easily. That's not true, obviously. And now there's a new variant. And they're saying,
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well, your old vaccine doesn't work anymore. With this new variants, you got to go out and get
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more vaccines. It's like, this is never ended, right. But specifically back to the media, like,
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can you can you can you help me? What do you think it is that makes the media in Canada so one sided on
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this issue? Yeah, there are a number of reasons why. So full disclosure as well, too, I'm actually
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unvaccinated. I actually have COVID right now. You already knew that. But I have COVID. I've been
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taking something other than I am I'm not against the vaccine. I just don't think I need it. And
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I'm on day seven of, you know, having COVID symptoms. And besides congesting, I'm okay,
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I've been taking an alternative. You know, I'm taking vitamins and other things to help myself,
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you know, to overcome COVID. But I say all that because the media really has become very,
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very friendly with big government and big pharma. And they don't want to go against the narrative,
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seemingly. So I think that's one. The other thing is, I think they don't want, because they're very
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much pro vaccine, which again, I'm okay with someone being pro vaccine, that's no problem.
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The problem is, I think, since they become so tied to the narrative, they're not willing to show the
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other side, because if they show the other side, then some people might realize that wait a minute,
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the vaccine is not the only way to survive against COVID. And I think that's one of the problems.
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The other thing I think too, is if you show the other side, if they were to highlight some of the
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stories that I'm highlighting, they would understand why the vaccine may not be the best option for
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everybody. Because then you will see some of the real stories of people having really bad adverse
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reactions from this, and they don't want to do that. So they rather ignore people like myself and
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Well, I had an interview the other day, Samuel, and the subject said that, you know, a lot of this
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stuff, they're proving the conspiracy theorists, right? And I feel like that's kind of the case
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here. It's like, they hide stories. So if you get sick from COVID, that's news, right? If you die from
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COVID, that's front page news. If you get sick from the vaccine, or if you die from the vaccine,
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they bury that they don't want anyone knowing. And it's like, the more that you bury that, the more
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people start to wonder, like, hey, what, why aren't we hearing about this? Why, what was with the
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discrepancy, people start to sort of look into it and doubt it. And I feel like they create
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conspiracy theorists, but then also just the way that the goalposts are constantly moving. And some of
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the things that people were predicting a year ago, and you know, oh, we're still going to be locked down,
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oh, there's going to be forced vaccines and mandates, people said, oh, that that's a conspiracy.
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And now we're living it, right? It's like, this is like a, the slippery slope kind of argument. But
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I mean, just, you know, and now the next, the next thing is little kids, little kids who
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don't really have it, you know, don't really die from COVID. The hospitalization numbers are so
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minuscule that the mobility, fatality, case fatality rate is basically nothing. And yet little
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kids are getting vaccinated. I read now that they're talking about getting babies vaccinated.
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It's against COVID, you know, something that doesn't really pose a mortal threat to them.
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It's sort of bizarre. And I'm sure through your reporting,
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you realize that the people who are choosing not to get vaccinated, it's not just because they're
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crazy. It's because they have a health reason or they have a legitimate reason that's sort of being
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ignored. So what is the sort of big takeaway from your project? You said that you did have
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a positive sort of interaction with the Ontario government. That's good to hear. But
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what was the sort of the big, the big takeaway for you from the project?
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Yeah, the big takeaway, honestly, is more, more discussed with the media. To be honest with you,
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one of the things that broke my heart more was that people were telling me, Sam, thank you for doing
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this. Thank you. No one, we don't want anybody out there who's amplifying our voice. And I know there's
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true north. I know you guys are doing a great job with all this stuff. But legacy media is completely
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ignoring all of this. So I was just sad that we don't have more people in our nation that will give
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them voice. Again, some of them wrote essays, essentially, because they were finally glad that
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they could talk about this. And not just so that I could share it on my blog so that people could see
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it, but that they knew that some people in the government would be finally able to hear them.
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So that's the first thing that comes to mind for me. That's great. No, that's really important work.
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And also to me, because like I said, I'm vaccinated, but I don't have the, I don't have the ideology
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that everyone must. Like, I don't, you know, we were told you get vaccinated to protect yourself,
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right? So then in theory, it shouldn't matter who around me is vaccinated or not because I'm
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protected. Well, it turned out that wasn't really true because, you know, they were saying, well,
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you know, you can still get COVID even though you're vaccinated. I think we have to have more
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empathy and more understanding that there are different paths for different people. We don't
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all have the same health. We don't have the same bodies. We don't have all the same, you know,
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backgrounds and underlying issues and age. And there's so many variations among us that why should
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there be a one size fits all policy, especially coming down heavy handed from the government? Some
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of the negative effects that I read about and that I saw on your blog have to do with the healthcare
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system. So even though Ontario doesn't have a vaccine mandate implemented for healthcare workers,
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many hospitals do. So as a result, we've seen delayed surgeries. We've seen patients turned away.
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We've seen healthcare workers fired. We've seen shortages of healthcare workers. We've seen emergency
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rooms shut down. You know, our healthcare system is already fragile. It's already,
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I think fundamentally flawed because of the sort of single payer state run centralization and not
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enough money going into the system. What do you think of our healthcare system? Can it recover from
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the effects of the vaccine mandate? And how long do you think these mandates will be in place?
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I, you know, so I'm in the Peel region where every time I hear talk about, I hear talk about our
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hospitals being overcrowded. I'm like, it's been overcrowded well before COVID. What are we talking
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about? And this is, and this is very funny. This has been a major issue in the Peel region for some
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time. Nevertheless, honestly, I said the very first, you know, within the first two weeks of the original,
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the 15 days to sort of spread. Um, I mentioned that this is not going away anytime. Um, once you,
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once we become so afraid that we give the government power, um, to protect us, um, from, from, uh, a virus,
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we're in deep trouble. I knew that Ben, I knew that then in two years afterwards, we're still here.
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Um, I have still heard, um, from credible people that there still might be lockdowns, uh, coming,
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or at least most of your restrictions coming. Uh, and it seems like with the, the new variants,
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um, there are, uh, it's become more and more legitimate over time. Uh, I don't, I don't,
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unfortunately, I don't see this ending till well into maybe next year or early, um, early, uh, 20, um,
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23. Uh, so I'm forgetting which, uh, these years, but I hope I'm wrong.
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It's, it's all a blur, right? It's all a blur the whole, the last two years. Well, exactly. And,
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and, you know, saying that kind of stuff two years ago would have gotten me called a conspiracy
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theorist. And yet, uh, here we are two years in and you still have to wear a mask, uh, just to go
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inside to get a coffee or to go on the subway or whatever. It's like, it doesn't, you're right.
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The government got a little taste of the power and they're not going to easily let it go. Okay.
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Well, final question for you, Samuel, what do you think Canadians can do? I mean,
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there's a lot of people who refuse to get vaccinated. That's their prerogative, all the
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power to them. Other Canadians that just want to get through the pandemic, they'll do anything just
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to get through it. I, you know, to your point that we're giving the government so much power,
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it's going to be hard to take it back or for them to relinquish it. What do you think the best
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thing for Canadians to do in the face of all this? Uh, one of the most encouraging, um, things I,
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I saw from the, um, the vaccine passport stories on my, on my blog is there were
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a handful of vaccinated people, um, who were saying, look, they're vaccinated, they're pro the
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vaccine, but they don't, they hate this vaccine, uh, these vaccine passport systems. So they were,
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they refuse, um, to live as first class citizens in our country. And that blessed me so much. And I
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think one of the things people can do is since most Canadians are vaccinated, reject these vaccine
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mandates. Do not live as a first class citizen, because if you live as a first class citizen,
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that means then that you are allowing second class citizens, uh, in your nation and don't do that.
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If, if vaccinated people reject this system, then the system will collapse. They cannot,
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then they can't do anything. So, um, that's what I, that's what I recommend for people to do.
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That's great. And I, I just heard a story today about someone who did just that, that, that she was
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going to the, going to the doctors, refused, even though she was vaccinated, refused to show her,
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her card and said, no, I don't have to show it. I refuse. They said, no, you can't come in. She
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goes, no, I know, I, I know my rights. I can come in and, and just completely refused. And part of the
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reason why was because this person was, uh, you know, an immigrant from Eastern Europe and, and had
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seen this, seen this movie before, and it didn't want to participate in a society that demanded to see
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your papers just to go about your daily life. So, uh, Samuel, I think that's a great, very wise,
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uh, good words of advice there. And thank you so much for joining the show, sharing, uh, your insight
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and also just for undertaking this incredibly important, uh, work is sort of telling that,
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that, that journalism like this isn't happening on the CBC. It's not happening in the mainstream.
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It takes independent people like yourself to do it. And I definitely applaud you for, for taking this on.
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Well, honestly, I'm just trying to follow, um, you know, your footsteps. Uh, I really appreciate
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what True North does. So thank you so much. Oh, well, that's very kind. All right. Thank you so
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much, Samuel, for joining. Thank you for tuning in. I'm Candace Malcolm, and this is The Candace Malcolm Show.