The Candice Malcolm Show - June 03, 2025


The REAL STORY behind Carney’s meeting with the premiers + Alberta independence (ft. Ted Morton)

Topics
decarbonized oil projects
Hosted by
Candice Malcolm
Mentioned
Mark Carney Justin Trudeau Danielle Smith Ted Morton Tom Flanagan Jack Mintz Harold Ron Bell Catherine McKenna Alberta Premier Gerald Butts Bill C-63 X. He
Carney FLIPS on supply management, Food Professor explains why food inflation is going UP in Canada Carney LOSES vote in the House, refuses to open the books + it’s “pride season” now

Episode Stats


Length

12 minutes

Words per minute

182.74

Word count

2,340

Sentence count

151

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Candice Malan talks about Prime Minister Mark Carney's meeting with the premiers of Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and Saskatchewan, and why she thinks there's no chance Canada will get a pipeline built under Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's leadership.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.000 Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is The Candice Malcolm Show.
00:00:05.040 We have a great episode for you folks.
00:00:07.380 We have Dr. Ted Morton joining the program in just a little bit.
00:00:10.660 But first, I want to talk about what happened yesterday in Saskatoon.
00:00:14.880 So as you know, Prime Minister Mark Carney met with the premiers in Saskatoon for their annual first ministers meeting.
00:00:21.200 This meeting was focused on nation building, focused on removing interprovincial trade barriers to strengthen Canada's economy amid U.S. trade pressures.
00:00:30.040 Now, if you listen to the legacy media, if you watch the CBC, they will tell you that this meeting was a staggering success, that Mark Carney is a grown up, that he commanded the room, that he seems committed to working together, even with conservative premiers, to grow our economy.
00:00:45.360 Let me just give you a sample of some of the glowing media coverage that he received.
00:00:49.320 So here is our friends over at the National Post.
00:00:51.740 The best meeting we've had in 10 years, Carney, premiers united on nation building projects.
00:00:55.780 Next, from the CBC, premiers expressed optimism after pitching major projects to Carney.
00:01:02.240 Next, CTV News says premiers heap praise on meeting with Mark Carney, but no specific projects identified.
00:01:08.360 That's a key point.
00:01:09.160 We'll get to that in a minute.
00:01:10.500 Next, from Global News, Mark Carney and premiers say they're united on energy projects, but no final list.
00:01:16.880 And even the Calgary Herald, check out this headline, folks.
00:01:20.420 Daniel Smith vows to work with Carney, says he's way better than Justin Trudeau, Alberta Premier.
00:01:26.660 Daniel Smith hasn't scored a pipeline, but she's willing to work with Prime Minister Carney, saying he is nothing like Justin Trudeau.
00:01:33.880 So if you just listen to that, you would think, wow, Canada's on the right track.
00:01:38.480 Mark Carney has sure gotten the job done.
00:01:40.320 And I'm willing to hold out hope for optimism.
00:01:43.120 I'm a generally optimistic person about the future.
00:01:45.780 Maybe Mark Carney really is nothing like Justin Trudeau.
00:01:49.080 Maybe he really will placate the radical environmentalist faction of his own party and commit to building pipelines.
00:01:56.200 But I am going to give it two straight.
00:01:58.940 I'm a little more skeptical, a little bit more pessimistic.
00:02:02.100 And I'm going to tell you why.
00:02:03.380 Let me just walk you through first what happened.
00:02:05.040 So here is what Mark Carney wrote on X.
00:02:07.540 He posted this after his meeting.
00:02:09.460 He writes, the premiers and I want to make Canada a global energy superpower and build the strongest economy in the G7.
00:02:15.340 Wow. So do I.
00:02:16.300 That's that's almost sounds like a conservative.
00:02:18.360 He says we're working together to break down trade barriers across the country and get big nation building projects off the ground.
00:02:24.620 I just have to point this out.
00:02:25.660 Check out this picture that he posted.
00:02:27.460 And if we just zoom in on Premier Danielle Smith, look at her face. 1.00
00:02:30.480 She just doesn't look happy in this picture.
00:02:32.320 What an odd choice for a photo to post on social media.
00:02:36.280 Next, here is Mark Carney telling reporters that the energy projects will be selected using specific criteria to meet Canada's highest environmental standards.
00:02:47.980 Let's play that clip.
00:02:48.540 I think there is a shared understanding based on our discussion of the main criteria for consideration.
00:02:54.180 I listed them there in the communique.
00:02:56.040 I'm not going to repeat them given interest of time.
00:02:57.900 What's being clear is what's being put in place or what is being proposed, will be proposed in legislation is the ability of the federal government to devote the right resources to these projects, to make quick decisions about those projects.
00:03:11.860 That way, respect our environmental responsibilities, other responsibilities, work with the provinces directly to move forward and to get the country building.
00:03:19.920 Now, specifically, he also said that Canada is open to building pipelines.
00:03:25.160 This is the big question, the big point of contention.
00:03:27.360 Will there be new pipelines built under the Mark Carney Liberal government?
00:03:30.400 He said he's open to it, but it has to be specifically for what he calls decarbonized oil.
00:03:35.620 Let's play that clip.
00:03:36.200 Specifically within energy, opportunities, yes, for an oil pipeline, oil pipeline to get to Tidewater.
00:03:43.400 Now, within the broader context of national interest, the interest is in, as mentioned in the press release, decarbonized barrels.
00:03:51.880 So working alongside forms of decarbonization for those barrels.
00:03:55.440 That is absolutely in our interest.
00:03:57.920 Decarbonized.
00:03:58.380 OK, we're going to break that down a little bit.
00:04:00.000 So at the end of the day, despite all the excitement, all of the positive praise from legacy media and some premiers, there was no specific projects that were identified.
00:04:09.420 We're not leaving this meeting with anything concrete planned.
00:04:12.220 There's no deals signed.
00:04:13.860 There's nothing listed.
00:04:15.580 Carney emphasized that any project has to meet the highest environmental standards.
00:04:19.800 So does that mean that he's just going to say that he would, in theory, be OK with an oil pipeline, but then it will be destined to get rejected once the environmental standards get applied?
00:04:30.000 I mean, that's what Bill C-69, after all, is all about.
00:04:33.580 Next, Carney talked about decarbonized oil.
00:04:36.500 So by this, he's meaning carbon catcher, which is a hugely expensive project that basically the private sector doesn't see the willing – they're not willing to invest in it because it's so expensive.
00:04:48.080 It doesn't really help with their bottom line.
00:04:50.020 And there's no guarantee at the end of the day that the government will be in agreement with future oil and gas development.
00:04:55.000 So it's not really worth the investment.
00:04:56.660 That's why the governments have to get involved in the first place because there isn't really a business case for this stuff.
00:05:01.260 And finally, Mark Carney says that, just like Justin Trudeau said, the projects need to have First Nations involvement and essentially approval.
00:05:09.960 So we're sort of talking about a veto power, right?
00:05:12.440 The idea that you could have 95 percent of First Nations agreeing with a project, but then you can always find some unelected hereditary chiefs to block the project.
00:05:21.540 That's exactly what happened with the coastal gas leak pipeline in British Columbia.
00:05:25.880 So forgive my skepticism.
00:05:27.600 But this all sounds a lot like Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
00:05:30.620 It sounds a lot like the liberal government that we've had over the past 10 years.
00:05:34.600 And at the end of the day, why would people like Gerald Butts, Kathleen McKenna and Stéphane Gilbeau, why would they backmark Carney if they believed that he was just going to turn on them and build the pipeline?
00:05:46.220 I kind of think that there's more going on behind the scenes.
00:05:48.280 So we're going to have to wait and and see.
00:05:51.000 You know, maybe we should be optimistic.
00:05:52.660 Maybe we should be happy that Carney is at least at the table and having these discussions with people like Premier Daniel Smith.
00:05:58.100 And, you know, she seems like she's somewhat happy by the meeting.
00:06:03.140 But again, I'm still a little bit skeptical.
00:06:05.340 OK, I want to bring on our guest to get his comments and thoughts on all of this.
00:06:09.780 Very pleased today to be meeting with one of the biggest figures in politics in Alberta.
00:06:14.720 I'm talking about Dr. Ted Morton.
00:06:16.260 He was a key figure at the Calgary School, the University of Calgary, where he taught for decades.
00:06:20.980 He co-authored the 2001 Firewall letter pushing for Alberta's provincial autonomy.
00:06:26.320 Of course, he was a progressive conservative MLA in that province from 2004 to 2012.
00:06:31.400 And he's an author of a very important book that was published in 2020 called The Moment of Truth, How to Think About Alberta's Future, that was published alongside economist Jack Mintz and professor Tom Flanagan.
00:06:43.080 So, Dr. Morton, thank you so much for joining us.
00:06:46.400 It's good to be with you again, Candice.
00:06:48.260 So I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the first minister's meeting and all of the news that came out of it.
00:06:55.100 Well, I listened to your introductory remarks and I guess I share your skepticism.
00:07:01.860 I think we can be confident that Mark Carney is a lot more intelligent than Justin Trudeau.
00:07:06.620 But does that make him better or more dangerous?
00:07:10.860 And he still seems to be dancing around both sides.
00:07:14.640 Decarbonized oil.
00:07:15.540 Well, what's that going to mean?
00:07:19.340 But I think to be fair, both to him and to premiers Smith and Moe, Saskatchewan and Alberta premiers, I think we're kind of in a honeymoon period or trial marriage, whatever you want to call it.
00:07:32.660 And they're hoping that, I think, Carney, the banker, the economist, will prevail over Carney, the politician.
00:07:42.800 And I think one of the quotations I read from Daniel Smith, Premier Smith of Alberta, was that any of these big infrastructure corridors that you want to build, whether it's east, west or north, you're looking at billions and billions of dollars.
00:08:00.080 How are you going to pay for that?
00:08:02.320 The only way you're going to pay for it is to start getting more Western Canadian oil and gas to global markets or global prices at economically competitive rates.
00:08:16.100 So I think we're in a, as I said, a trial marriage or a honeymoon that lasts maybe a couple months, maybe.
00:08:24.220 But clearly, Moe and Smith, Alberta and Saskatchewan, are going to see the talk turned into action.
00:08:33.040 Well, and the fact that they're saying that behind the scenes or around the table, he's much better than Justin Trudeau.
00:08:38.080 I mean, I interviewed Premier Smith back when Mark Carney was just running for liberal leader, and she worried that because of his book values and his ideology that he professed, that he was going to be worse than Justin Trudeau.
00:08:48.240 So I want to go back to some of Smith's words right here in Calgary.
00:08:53.300 Harold Ron Bell writes that Smith vows to work with Carney and says he's way better than Justin Trudeau.
00:08:57.580 The Premier says Carney is a dramatic improvement over Trudeau since he recognizes the value of Alberta oil and wants to get it to market and get it to Asia.
00:09:05.640 On X, she posted that she was encouraged by discussions that she had.
00:09:09.660 And I want to play a few clips.
00:09:11.200 So first, here she is yesterday speaking to reporters, saying that specifically there are nine terrible laws and terrible policies that are hurting investment and that this is what she wants to see addressed.
00:09:23.380 Let's play this quick clip.
00:09:24.900 I think that there seems to be an appetite to talk about getting pipelines built so that we can get oil and gas to market.
00:09:32.080 The problem is, unless we address the nine terrible policies that have damaged investor confidence, we're not going to get the proponents coming forward with major investment.
00:09:42.380 So she's laid out these nine terrible laws, terrible policies. 1.00
00:09:45.700 She put it in a letter that she gave to him before the meeting.
00:09:48.580 And yet I don't think that any of these were really addressed.
00:09:51.360 So, yes, Mark Kearney is showing up at the table.
00:09:53.520 Yes, he's giving lip service to the idea of building nation-building projects and getting Canada's economy off the ground.
00:09:57.940 But the specific, the devil's in the details, and I don't think that he's addressed the details at all.
00:10:03.180 What do you think of that?
00:10:05.000 I would tend to agree.
00:10:06.940 I saw nothing in the news coverage referring to, specifically referring to the reversal or removal or amending of any of those nine policies.
00:10:18.120 As I mentioned to you just before we came on, of those nine policies, I think four or five have been enacted just in the four or five past years.
00:10:28.560 So the book that you referenced, Moment of Truth, that Jack Mentz and Tom Flanagan and I did five years ago, we thought we make the case then that it's time for the Western premiers to start playing offense rather than defense because things were getting worse.
00:10:47.120 And of the nine policies that Smith and Moe have identified as necessary to move forward, almost half of those are since we wrote that book five years ago.
00:11:00.000 So things have been getting worse, not better.
00:11:03.460 What's Kearney going to do?
00:11:04.780 Well, it's going to be an interesting six months.
00:11:07.440 Well, I think you might have to write an updated chapter on that book because I did interview you right after that book came out.
00:11:13.860 And it was almost bore or abstract back then.
00:11:16.500 And now I'm just looking at the title again, right?
00:11:18.440 So how to think about Alberta's future.
00:11:20.340 And you have a sort of like weather vane or one of those signs pointing different directions.
00:11:25.860 And the options are go it alone, 51st state, let them freeze, roll over, pop on a bust or build a firewall, which seems sort of like you had a crystal ball and you were looking into the future at what the conversation might look like.
00:11:37.440 That was the reality in 2020, but then COVID hit and it pushed everything else off the, if you like, the political map, the public awareness for, what, a year and a half, at least.
00:11:50.480 At least.
00:11:51.120 So, but we're not just back to where we were.
00:11:55.180 In many respects, the oil and gas producing provinces, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and BC to consider, are worse off today than we were five years ago.
00:12:06.220 Certainly interesting.
00:12:07.020 Okay, well, I do think that the elephant in the room in all of these discussions with the first minister's meeting yesterday really comes down to the future of Alberta and Alberta Independent.
00:12:16.540 So I do want to ask you a few questions about this, Dr. Morton.
00:12:20.160 But for folks on YouTube, we're going to cut the video off here.
00:12:23.020 And if you want to watch the rest of the conversation, it's going to be good.
00:12:25.860 Head on over to Juno News, become a premium subscriber, and you can enjoy the rest of this interview right now.
00:12:37.020 Thank you.
00:12:38.140 Thank you.
00:12:38.640 Thank you.
00:12:39.940 Thank you.
00:12:40.460 Thank you.