The Trudeau government would like to ban critical thinking. They d like to criminalize uncomfortable questions surrounding the media s frankly absurd narrative when it comes to Canada s residential school programs. Well, if the Trudeau government moves forward with this bill, commentary like the one you re watching right now, critical questions like the ones you ve come to expect from us at True North.
00:00:30.000The Trudeau government would like to ban critical thinking.
00:00:32.840They'd like to criminalize uncomfortable questions surrounding the media's frankly absurd narrative when it comes to Canada's residential school programs.
00:00:40.680Claims and narratives, by the way, that have been completely debunked and discredited over the past few years.
00:00:46.300Well, if the Trudeau government moves forward with this bill, commentary like the one you're watching right now,
00:00:51.060critical questions like the ones you've come to expect from us at True North,
00:00:54.100and even just simply a journalist asking for corroborating evidence about the media narratives surrounding residential schools could soon become illegal in Canada.
00:01:02.820I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is The Candice Malcolm Show.
00:01:04.880Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning into the podcast.
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00:01:29.040Okay, so you may have missed this story. It came out over the weekend.
00:01:32.340It's a CP article, so that means that it appeared throughout the legacy media.
00:01:58.200Canada's Justice Minister is considering options raised by the independent advisor on Unmarked Graves,
00:02:04.920who says Indigenous leaders want Canada to move on criminalizing residential school denialism.
00:02:10.440Kimberly Murray called on lawmakers to consider legal mechanisms that could address the practice of denying or minimalizing the abuses Indigenous children suffered at residential schools,
00:02:20.560in her interim report released back in June.
00:02:22.880One way to do this is by amending the criminal code to criminalize such actions,
00:02:27.200as Murray said in a recent interview, noting Ottawa did so last year on the issue of Holocaust denialism.
00:02:33.200You could do the same for Indigenous people, she said.
00:02:35.580Make it an offense to incite hate and promote hate against Indigenous people by denying that residential schools happened or downplaying what happened at these institutions.
00:02:44.880OK. So here we go. This is what she's talking about.
00:02:48.180She wants to make it an offense to incite hate.
00:02:51.180Well, wait a minute. It already is an offense in the criminal code to incite hate.
00:02:56.360But she wants to make it an offense to incite hate by denying that residential schools happened or by downplaying what happened in those institutions.
00:03:06.360Well, isn't that cute? That would mean that by simply denying what happened or downplaying or saying,
00:03:12.360hey, it wasn't so bad or some people had a good experience or, hey, you know, those unmarked graves that the media told you about.
00:03:18.240Well, that never really happened or when they did any kind of excavation, they didn't find anything.
00:03:22.920Any of that would now be the same thing as inciting hate or promoting hate or inciting violence against a group.
00:03:29.860So basically, any kind of critical discussion around residential schools, around the media narrative surrounding residential schools,
00:03:36.960any critical questions, any demands for evidence, any of the kind of thing, frankly, that you've come to expect from True North
00:03:43.380and the many reports that we've done on this topic, that would all presumably be illegal if this were to move forward.
00:03:51.480I'll continue reading. This is another quote from Kimberly Murray, the special advisor that the Trudeau government appointed.
00:03:56.880Keep this in mind. They appointed this woman to create a report so that she could come back to them and tell them to implement a law.
00:04:04.020So this isn't just some sort of organic process here. The Trudeau government set this up.
00:04:08.100They found this person. They hired her to come in and create this report.
00:04:11.580And now this report has been written and she's lobbying the government to introduce her recommendations.
00:04:16.740So Murray says, everybody in leadership, when I speak about this, indigenous leadership, they all want that amendment to happen in the criminal code.
00:04:24.720So according to her, it's unanimous. Everybody in First Nations, everyone in indigenous leadership agrees that it should happen and therefore, no questions, it should happen.
00:04:34.200I'll continue reading from this news report.
00:04:44.700which was largely overseen by the Catholic Church.
00:04:47.820The Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada, which spent six years investigating the system,
00:04:52.040heard from thousands of survivors who experienced physical, emotional, sexual, and spiritual abuse, as well as neglect and maltrition.
00:04:58.480And I'll just make a quick note. One day I'll do an entire show about the Truth and Reconciliation Commission because it was basically a farce.
00:05:04.480It was completely one-sided. It was completely unscientific, very emotional.
00:05:08.740It wasn't a serious, rigorous study. It wasn't done by the RCMP. It wasn't a criminal investigation.
00:05:15.320It was very, let's just say, very social science.
00:05:19.060It very much came out of the universities and it was basically just about listening and hearing.
00:05:25.320There's a reason why the Truth and Reconciliation made hundreds of recommendations, most of which were ignored because, frankly,
00:05:30.820most of which were so extreme and absurd that even left-wing governments haven't implemented them since.
00:05:39.580An estimated 6,000 Indigenous children died at these institutions, while many experts believe the number to be higher.
00:05:45.840The National Center for Truth and Reconciliation have recorded the names of more than 4,000 who died.
00:05:50.520So let's just stop for a moment and think about this critically.
00:05:53.380So they claim that out of the 150,000 children who attended these schools, more than 6,000, at least 6,000, experts say the number is much higher.
00:06:02.900But of those 6,000 they claim have died, they've only been able to record the names of 4,000 children who died.
00:06:10.140So they're saying that there's a more than 2,000 children gap between those who have been recorded and those who they claim have died.
00:06:18.160Can you imagine, just for a second, that you're a parent or a family that sends your children off to school?
00:06:33.040You don't even have any kind of records that these children exist.
00:06:35.960This is why there's skepticism around this issue.
00:06:38.940Because you would think that if a child went missing, if a child died at school while going to boarding school, that the parents would, at the very least, have that child's name.
00:06:53.100But you would think that they would at least have the name of a child.
00:06:55.920So the fact that they're saying that there are more than 2,000 children who have died that we don't even know who they were or how the name is, I'm sorry.
00:07:06.920I would like to see more evidence about this.
00:07:09.900So I continue reading from the report.
00:07:12.540Despite this evidence, Murray highlighted in her June report what she said is a concerning rise in denialism tied to what survivors and communities say about children who went missing or died at these institutions and are possibly buried in unmarked graves.
00:07:39.180And then she says that there's a concerning rise in denialism tied to what survivors and communities say about children who went missing or died and those who are possibly buried in unmarked graves.
00:08:35.080Attention to the deaths and disappearance of these children increased greatly when, in May 2021,
00:08:40.500the Takamloops to Soquamquip Nation announced that ground-penetrating radar had located what are believed to be unmarked graves of more than 200 children at the site of a former residential school in Kamloops, B.C.
00:08:51.980Since then, dozens more First Nations across Western Canada and parts of Ontario have begun their own searches.
00:08:57.780Federal ministers have acknowledged that work could take years and has pledged millions to assist communities.
00:09:04.020Murray, who says she is herself the target of denialism, reported back in June that each time an announcement of a discovery is made,
00:09:11.960the community that shares the news is inundated with calls, emails, social media posted, in-person confrontations.
00:09:18.380Okay, so again, this woman, Murray, claims that she herself is a target of denialism with no evidence, no claims, no details of what that means.
00:09:27.100What do you mean the target of denialism?
00:09:29.020Like, people ask you questions, people write skeptical posts on social media.
00:09:34.240Again, we need more details here because this is really, really murky.
00:09:38.100And then she says, anytime a community makes a claim, they're inundated with calls, emails, social media posted, in-person confrontations.
00:09:44.380Okay, I've been in the news business for a bit of time here.
00:09:47.200And let me just tell you, if you put out a report claiming that teachers, nuns, and priests mass murder children at your school, you're going to get some interest.
00:09:58.460If you put out a news release claiming that you have been the victim of mass murder, your community has been the victim of mass murder, you're going to get people emailing you.
00:10:07.440You're going to get people calling you.
00:10:08.640You're going to get social media posts.
00:10:10.060You're going to even get met with some skepticism.
00:10:13.660If you want to make absolutely shocking, shocking claims about Canada, you want to make these kind of accusations, you're going to get a response.
00:10:22.980And if you get a response, that doesn't make it a crime.
00:10:25.640It's not a crime to call someone, to email someone, to make social media posts, or to show up in person to ask questions.
00:10:31.960That's all just sort of normal part of a society, of a democracy.
00:10:44.460Many of my questions still remain unanswered.
00:10:46.760But just the very fact, they're putting out such alarming, shocking claims, and then they're upset that they're getting inundated with calls.
00:11:04.560The former executive director of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and member of the Canistaki Mohawk Nation in Quebec was appointed in June 2022 to take on a two-year mandate as an independent advisor to the federal government.
00:11:16.380She's been tasked with recommending how Ottawa could better help communities and protect possible burial sites.
00:11:22.080And her final report is due next year.
00:11:32.780So, again, you might ask, why is this news report out then?
00:11:36.560The final report hasn't even been released.
00:11:38.800Why are we already talking about legislation?
00:11:40.560Why is she already pushing for legislation, going to the media and, you know, making these statements when her final report haven't even been issued?
00:11:48.540Can't we read the final report before we jump to legal mechanisms and conclusions here?
00:11:53.260Wouldn't that sort of be the normal process?
00:11:55.980Since Murray's appointment, Arif Verrani replaced Montreal MP David Lamedi as Canada's Justice Minister.
00:12:01.260When Murray released her interim report, which contained nearly 50 findings, including a call for legal tools to tackle residential school denialism, Lamedi expressed an openness to doing so, including the possibility of outlawing such talk.
00:12:13.920When asked whether Verrani is open to the same, a spokesperson in his office said the minister is, quote, considering the options raised in Ms. Murray's interim report and looks forward to receiving her recommendations in the final report, unquote.
00:12:27.060We must not ignore the lasting impact these schools had on Indigenous peoples and intergenerational trauma that continues to be felt today.
00:12:32.960The denial of the atrocities that took place is painful for survivors or families and communities, said a statement from Mr. Verrani's office.
00:12:39.600Ms. Murray's final recommendations will be critical for putting in place a federal legal framework that will preserve and protect rights and respect the dignity of the children buried in unmarked graves and burial sites connected to residential schools, she added.
00:12:53.480In the meantime, Murray says she hopes to see NDP MP Leah Gazan bring forward her private member's bill seeking to criminalize such denialism, as a parliamentarian has indicated that she will.
00:13:05.040Asked recently about its status, the Winnipeg representative said, there is something in the works.
00:13:09.800She later confirmed she remains committed to bringing it forward, but the timing remains unclear.
00:13:14.920I'm really hopeful that she will and would support her in that and survivors want to support her in that, said Murray.
00:13:20.440We're sort of holding our breath, waiting, hoping that she'll do it in November, end quote.
00:13:24.740So again, just to get this straight, the person who wrote this report, Kimberly Murray, has a report, the interim reports out, the final one doesn't come out until 2024, and she's pressuring an NDP MP to put forward a private member bill to criminalize speech surrounding residential schools before the report has even been released.
00:13:42.540The liberals said that once the report is released, they will consider all legal actions, and frankly, it seems like they're pretty enthusiastic about creating such a bill to criminalize speech around First Nations residential schools.
00:13:55.940And yet here we are, months before the report is even finished, and she's pressuring a NDP MP to put forward a bill.
00:14:15.680Okay, just a little bit left in the article here.
00:14:17.780It says, last year, Ghazan brought forward a motion to the House of Commons that called on Parliament to recognize the residential school system as genocide, which it did.
00:14:26.380Conservative leader Pierre Polyev's spokesperson, Sebastian Skamski, has not responded to a request about whether the Tories would support a push to criminalize residential school denialism.
00:14:40.000First of all, I want to note how sad it is that the entire House of Commons decided to recognize the residential school program as genocide.
00:14:48.140Look, genocide has a very specific meaning.
00:14:50.500It's supposed to be reserved for the worst atrocities carried out by a civilization against another group of people.
00:14:57.120It was coined after the Holocaust to describe what the Nazis did to the Jews.
00:15:01.600It's only been used a handful of times since then.
00:15:04.680And the idea is a purposeful program of systematic mass murder with the intent of eliminating an entire group of people, killing an entire group of people.
00:15:14.360So, you know, we can have a lot of criticism about the residential school.
00:15:17.620We can say it was an absolute failed program.
00:15:19.600There's unspeakable abuses that happened.
00:15:21.160It was clearly a failed program, clearly very misguided, lots of bad things about it.
00:15:26.720But that does not mean it was genocide.
00:15:29.020We can't go back in time and pretend that the intention of the residential school system was the same as the intention of concentration camps by the Nazis.
00:15:38.420I'm sorry, those are just not the same thing.
00:15:40.680The purpose of residential school program was to integrate, was to provide education, create tools for people to succeed.
00:15:47.880The intentions, as much as the program failed, the intentions were good.
00:15:51.400The intentions were to take a community that was impoverished, that was having problems, and help them integrate into the modern advanced economy.
00:16:01.640Okay, obviously it failed, but the intention that was there was good.
00:16:15.760Now, next, as far as the purpose of this whole thing, notice in this entire story, which used that phrase denialism multiple times, probably about a dozen times, didn't once even attempt to define the word, didn't attempt to create any kind of clarity as to what denialism actually means.
00:16:35.200Is media questions, media questions surrounding a claim, is that denialism, is showing some skepticism, is that denialism, is asking critical questions, asking for evidence.
00:16:45.980And when there is no evidence pointing that out, is that denialism, is that denialism, is that denialism?
00:17:00.620The indigenous leadership, according to this report, says that they're all in favor of it.
00:17:05.700So it's probably just a matter of time.
00:17:07.580I don't really expect much from the conservatives on this, given that they basically capitulated to describing our residential school system as genocide, despite the effort.
00:17:16.140So not very optimistic about this one.
00:17:18.820But until it's a law banning this kind of speech, you can continue to expect to hear critical thinking and critical questions on this program from us here at True North.