The Candice Malcolm Show - This video may soon be ILLEGAL

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00:00:30.000 The Trudeau government would like to ban critical thinking.

00:00:32.840 They'd like to criminalize uncomfortable questions surrounding the media's frankly absurd narrative when it comes to Canada's residential school programs.

00:00:40.680 Claims and narratives, by the way, that have been completely debunked and discredited over the past few years.

00:00:46.300 Well, if the Trudeau government moves forward with this bill, commentary like the one you're watching right now,

00:00:51.060 critical questions like the ones you've come to expect from us at True North,

00:00:54.100 and even just simply a journalist asking for corroborating evidence about the media narratives surrounding residential schools could soon become illegal in Canada.

00:01:02.820 I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is The Candice Malcolm Show.

00:01:04.880 Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning into the podcast.

00:01:18.280 Don't forget to like this video. Subscribe to True North.

00:01:20.520 Leave us a five-star review if you enjoyed the podcast.

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00:01:29.040 Okay, so you may have missed this story. It came out over the weekend.

00:01:32.340 It's a CP article, so that means that it appeared throughout the legacy media.

00:01:35.820 This is what the headline said.

00:01:37.300 Special interlocutor waiting for MP Bill criminalizing residential school denialism.

00:01:43.420 Well, this one piqued my interest, so I decided I would read it through in its entirety for you on the show,

00:01:48.960 and we'll go through it just to show how troublesome, how scary it is if the Trudeau government is to move ahead.

00:01:56.980 So here we go.

00:01:57.760 Ottawa.

00:01:58.200 Canada's Justice Minister is considering options raised by the independent advisor on Unmarked Graves,

00:02:04.920 who says Indigenous leaders want Canada to move on criminalizing residential school denialism.

00:02:10.440 Kimberly Murray called on lawmakers to consider legal mechanisms that could address the practice of denying or minimalizing the abuses Indigenous children suffered at residential schools,

00:02:20.560 in her interim report released back in June.

00:02:22.880 One way to do this is by amending the criminal code to criminalize such actions,

00:02:27.200 as Murray said in a recent interview, noting Ottawa did so last year on the issue of Holocaust denialism.

00:02:33.200 You could do the same for Indigenous people, she said.

00:02:35.580 Make it an offense to incite hate and promote hate against Indigenous people by denying that residential schools happened or downplaying what happened at these institutions.

00:02:44.880 OK. So here we go. This is what she's talking about.

00:02:48.180 She wants to make it an offense to incite hate. 0.99

00:02:51.180 Well, wait a minute. It already is an offense in the criminal code to incite hate.

00:02:55.140 That's against the law in Canada.

00:02:56.360 But she wants to make it an offense to incite hate by denying that residential schools happened or by downplaying what happened in those institutions.

00:03:06.360 Well, isn't that cute? That would mean that by simply denying what happened or downplaying or saying,

00:03:12.360 hey, it wasn't so bad or some people had a good experience or, hey, you know, those unmarked graves that the media told you about.

00:03:18.240 Well, that never really happened or when they did any kind of excavation, they didn't find anything.

00:03:22.920 Any of that would now be the same thing as inciting hate or promoting hate or inciting violence against a group.

00:03:29.860 So basically, any kind of critical discussion around residential schools, around the media narrative surrounding residential schools,

00:03:36.960 any critical questions, any demands for evidence, any of the kind of thing, frankly, that you've come to expect from True North

00:03:43.380 and the many reports that we've done on this topic, that would all presumably be illegal if this were to move forward.

00:03:51.480 I'll continue reading. This is another quote from Kimberly Murray, the special advisor that the Trudeau government appointed.

00:03:56.880 Keep this in mind. They appointed this woman to create a report so that she could come back to them and tell them to implement a law. 1.00

00:04:04.020 So this isn't just some sort of organic process here. The Trudeau government set this up.

00:04:08.100 They found this person. They hired her to come in and create this report.

00:04:11.580 And now this report has been written and she's lobbying the government to introduce her recommendations.

00:04:16.740 So Murray says, everybody in leadership, when I speak about this, indigenous leadership, they all want that amendment to happen in the criminal code.

00:04:24.720 So according to her, it's unanimous. Everybody in First Nations, everyone in indigenous leadership agrees that it should happen and therefore, no questions, it should happen.

00:04:34.200 I'll continue reading from this news report.

00:04:36.260 More than 150,000 First Nations, Métis, and Inuit children were placed into the government-funded church-run residential school system,

00:04:44.700 which was largely overseen by the Catholic Church.

00:04:47.820 The Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada, which spent six years investigating the system,

00:04:52.040 heard from thousands of survivors who experienced physical, emotional, sexual, and spiritual abuse, as well as neglect and maltrition.

00:04:58.480 And I'll just make a quick note. One day I'll do an entire show about the Truth and Reconciliation Commission because it was basically a farce.

00:05:04.480 It was completely one-sided. It was completely unscientific, very emotional.

00:05:08.740 It wasn't a serious, rigorous study. It wasn't done by the RCMP. It wasn't a criminal investigation.

00:05:15.320 It was very, let's just say, very social science.

00:05:19.060 It very much came out of the universities and it was basically just about listening and hearing.

00:05:25.320 There's a reason why the Truth and Reconciliation made hundreds of recommendations, most of which were ignored because, frankly,

00:05:30.820 most of which were so extreme and absurd that even left-wing governments haven't implemented them since.

00:05:38.040 We'll continue with the story.

00:05:39.580 An estimated 6,000 Indigenous children died at these institutions, while many experts believe the number to be higher.

00:05:45.840 The National Center for Truth and Reconciliation have recorded the names of more than 4,000 who died.

00:05:50.520 So let's just stop for a moment and think about this critically.

00:05:53.380 So they claim that out of the 150,000 children who attended these schools, more than 6,000, at least 6,000, experts say the number is much higher.

00:06:02.900 But of those 6,000 they claim have died, they've only been able to record the names of 4,000 children who died.

00:06:10.140 So they're saying that there's a more than 2,000 children gap between those who have been recorded and those who they claim have died.

00:06:18.160 Can you imagine, just for a second, that you're a parent or a family that sends your children off to school?

00:06:24.500 They never come back.

00:06:26.180 They die in the school, is the claim here.

00:06:29.260 And yet, you don't even bother reporting it.

00:06:31.480 You don't even have their names.

00:06:33.040 You don't even have any kind of records that these children exist.

00:06:35.960 This is why there's skepticism around this issue.

00:06:38.940 Because you would think that if a child went missing, if a child died at school while going to boarding school, that the parents would, at the very least, have that child's name.

00:06:47.800 Maybe they don't have a birth record.

00:06:49.200 Maybe they don't have record of the child registering in school.

00:06:52.140 I don't know why.

00:06:53.100 But you would think that they would at least have the name of a child.

00:06:55.920 So the fact that they're saying that there are more than 2,000 children who have died that we don't even know who they were or how the name is, I'm sorry.

00:07:03.560 I find that very hard to believe.

00:07:04.960 I'm skeptical of that claim.

00:07:06.920 I would like to see more evidence about this.

00:07:09.900 So I continue reading from the report.

00:07:12.540 Despite this evidence, Murray highlighted in her June report what she said is a concerning rise in denialism tied to what survivors and communities say about children who went missing or died at these institutions and are possibly buried in unmarked graves.

00:07:27.760 Okay.

00:07:28.180 So she's saying despite this evidence.

00:07:30.180 I'm sorry.

00:07:30.560 What evidence?

00:07:31.180 What evidence are you saying despite this evidence?

00:07:33.380 You're saying that you have 4,000 names, but that there's over 6,000 who died.

00:07:37.180 That's not really evidence.

00:07:37.940 That's sort of a lack of evidence.

00:07:39.180 And then she says that there's a concerning rise in denialism tied to what survivors and communities say about children who went missing or died and those who are possibly buried in unmarked graves.

00:07:50.440 So two things.

00:07:51.360 One, denying what people say about children.

00:07:54.420 And then second, denying the possibility that things are buried.

00:07:58.200 Hmm.

00:07:58.720 I wonder why there's concern about the murkiness here.

00:08:01.000 So you're not allowed to deny what people say.

00:08:03.460 What if what people say isn't true?

00:08:04.980 What if people exaggerate or what if they misremember?

00:08:07.060 Or you can't deny just what someone says.

00:08:09.500 We're not talking about facts or evidence.

00:08:10.840 We're talking about just claims or what people say.

00:08:13.640 I'm sorry.

00:08:14.320 Canada is a free country.

00:08:15.680 And you should be able to question what people say.

00:08:18.280 And secondly, again, we're not talking about hard evidence.

00:08:20.480 We're saying that the people that there are possibly buried in unmarked graves, that there's children possibly buried.

00:08:26.080 That word possible shows that we're not entirely sure.

00:08:29.720 And again, that should be open for discussion and debate in a free country like Canada.

00:08:34.460 I'll continue.

00:08:35.080 Attention to the deaths and disappearance of these children increased greatly when, in May 2021,

00:08:40.500 the Takamloops to Soquamquip Nation announced that ground-penetrating radar had located what are believed to be unmarked graves of more than 200 children at the site of a former residential school in Kamloops, B.C.

00:08:51.980 Since then, dozens more First Nations across Western Canada and parts of Ontario have begun their own searches.

00:08:57.780 Federal ministers have acknowledged that work could take years and has pledged millions to assist communities.

00:09:04.020 Murray, who says she is herself the target of denialism, reported back in June that each time an announcement of a discovery is made,

00:09:11.960 the community that shares the news is inundated with calls, emails, social media posted, in-person confrontations.

00:09:18.380 Okay, so again, this woman, Murray, claims that she herself is a target of denialism with no evidence, no claims, no details of what that means.

00:09:27.100 What do you mean the target of denialism?

00:09:29.020 Like, people ask you questions, people write skeptical posts on social media.

00:09:34.240 Again, we need more details here because this is really, really murky.

00:09:38.100 And then she says, anytime a community makes a claim, they're inundated with calls, emails, social media posted, in-person confrontations.

00:09:44.380 Okay, I've been in the news business for a bit of time here.

00:09:47.200 And let me just tell you, if you put out a report claiming that teachers, nuns, and priests mass murder children at your school, you're going to get some interest.

00:09:57.480 You're going to get some interest.

00:09:58.460 If you put out a news release claiming that you have been the victim of mass murder, your community has been the victim of mass murder, you're going to get people emailing you.

00:10:07.440 You're going to get people calling you.

00:10:08.640 You're going to get social media posts.

00:10:10.060 You're going to even get met with some skepticism.

00:10:12.460 That's the way the world works.

00:10:13.660 If you want to make absolutely shocking, shocking claims about Canada, you want to make these kind of accusations, you're going to get a response.

00:10:22.980 And if you get a response, that doesn't make it a crime.

00:10:25.640 It's not a crime to call someone, to email someone, to make social media posts, or to show up in person to ask questions.

00:10:31.960 That's all just sort of normal part of a society, of a democracy.

00:10:35.960 That's the way the media works.

00:10:37.020 I'll tell you, when these communities released these reports, I was emailing them.

00:10:40.240 I was calling them.

00:10:41.040 I wanted to interview them.

00:10:42.020 I wanted to ask questions.

00:10:43.120 I had a lot of questions.

00:10:44.460 Many of my questions still remain unanswered.

00:10:46.760 But just the very fact, they're putting out such alarming, shocking claims, and then they're upset that they're getting inundated with calls.

00:10:53.460 I'm sorry.

00:10:54.000 That is absurd.

00:10:54.620 That is not the way a free society works.

00:10:57.260 You can't control that.

00:10:58.320 You can't control that.

00:10:59.280 You can't stop that.

00:11:00.080 People are going to be interested.

00:11:01.520 And that's just the way of the world.

00:11:03.460 Okay, let's keep reading here.

00:11:04.560 The former executive director of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and member of the Canistaki Mohawk Nation in Quebec was appointed in June 2022 to take on a two-year mandate as an independent advisor to the federal government.

00:11:16.380 She's been tasked with recommending how Ottawa could better help communities and protect possible burial sites.

00:11:22.080 And her final report is due next year.

00:11:24.640 Just, again, keep that in mind.

00:11:26.380 We've gotten an interim report that came in June.

00:11:28.340 But her actual report isn't even out yet.

00:11:30.980 It doesn't get released until 2024.

00:11:32.780 So, again, you might ask, why is this news report out then?

00:11:36.560 The final report hasn't even been released.

00:11:38.800 Why are we already talking about legislation?

00:11:40.560 Why is she already pushing for legislation, going to the media and, you know, making these statements when her final report haven't even been issued? 0.99

00:11:48.540 Can't we read the final report before we jump to legal mechanisms and conclusions here?

00:11:53.260 Wouldn't that sort of be the normal process?

00:11:54.960 Apparently not.

00:11:55.980 Since Murray's appointment, Arif Verrani replaced Montreal MP David Lamedi as Canada's Justice Minister.

00:12:01.260 When Murray released her interim report, which contained nearly 50 findings, including a call for legal tools to tackle residential school denialism, Lamedi expressed an openness to doing so, including the possibility of outlawing such talk.

00:12:13.920 When asked whether Verrani is open to the same, a spokesperson in his office said the minister is, quote, considering the options raised in Ms. Murray's interim report and looks forward to receiving her recommendations in the final report, unquote.

00:12:27.060 We must not ignore the lasting impact these schools had on Indigenous peoples and intergenerational trauma that continues to be felt today.

00:12:32.960 The denial of the atrocities that took place is painful for survivors or families and communities, said a statement from Mr. Verrani's office.

00:12:39.600 Ms. Murray's final recommendations will be critical for putting in place a federal legal framework that will preserve and protect rights and respect the dignity of the children buried in unmarked graves and burial sites connected to residential schools, she added.

00:12:53.480 In the meantime, Murray says she hopes to see NDP MP Leah Gazan bring forward her private member's bill seeking to criminalize such denialism, as a parliamentarian has indicated that she will.

00:13:05.040 Asked recently about its status, the Winnipeg representative said, there is something in the works.

00:13:09.800 She later confirmed she remains committed to bringing it forward, but the timing remains unclear.

00:13:14.920 I'm really hopeful that she will and would support her in that and survivors want to support her in that, said Murray.

00:13:20.440 We're sort of holding our breath, waiting, hoping that she'll do it in November, end quote.

00:13:24.740 So again, just to get this straight, the person who wrote this report, Kimberly Murray, has a report, the interim reports out, the final one doesn't come out until 2024, and she's pressuring an NDP MP to put forward a private member bill to criminalize speech surrounding residential schools before the report has even been released.

00:13:42.540 The liberals said that once the report is released, they will consider all legal actions, and frankly, it seems like they're pretty enthusiastic about creating such a bill to criminalize speech around First Nations residential schools.

00:13:55.940 And yet here we are, months before the report is even finished, and she's pressuring a NDP MP to put forward a bill.

00:14:03.740 It really doesn't make sense.

00:14:05.220 Why wouldn't we just wait for the report to come out?

00:14:07.820 Why are we talking about this in the media?

00:14:09.160 Why is this Kimberly Murray person pushing this report in the media, talking to the media? 0.94

00:14:14.140 I don't quite understand that.

00:14:15.680 Okay, just a little bit left in the article here.

00:14:17.780 It says, last year, Ghazan brought forward a motion to the House of Commons that called on Parliament to recognize the residential school system as genocide, which it did.

00:14:26.380 Conservative leader Pierre Polyev's spokesperson, Sebastian Skamski, has not responded to a request about whether the Tories would support a push to criminalize residential school denialism.

00:14:37.360 And that's the end of the story.

00:14:38.460 Okay, just a couple points here.

00:14:40.000 First of all, I want to note how sad it is that the entire House of Commons decided to recognize the residential school program as genocide.

00:14:48.140 Look, genocide has a very specific meaning.

00:14:50.500 It's supposed to be reserved for the worst atrocities carried out by a civilization against another group of people.

00:14:57.120 It was coined after the Holocaust to describe what the Nazis did to the Jews.

00:15:01.600 It's only been used a handful of times since then.

00:15:04.680 And the idea is a purposeful program of systematic mass murder with the intent of eliminating an entire group of people, killing an entire group of people.

00:15:14.360 So, you know, we can have a lot of criticism about the residential school.

00:15:17.620 We can say it was an absolute failed program.

00:15:19.600 There's unspeakable abuses that happened.

00:15:21.160 It was clearly a failed program, clearly very misguided, lots of bad things about it.

00:15:26.720 But that does not mean it was genocide.

00:15:29.020 We can't go back in time and pretend that the intention of the residential school system was the same as the intention of concentration camps by the Nazis.

00:15:38.420 I'm sorry, those are just not the same thing.

00:15:40.680 The purpose of residential school program was to integrate, was to provide education, create tools for people to succeed.

00:15:47.880 The intentions, as much as the program failed, the intentions were good.

00:15:51.400 The intentions were to take a community that was impoverished, that was having problems, and help them integrate into the modern advanced economy.

00:16:01.640 Okay, obviously it failed, but the intention that was there was good.

00:16:05.700 It was to help people.

00:16:06.700 It was not to mass murder.

00:16:08.080 It was not genocide.

00:16:09.480 It was not genocide.

00:16:10.480 And I am sorry to see that the conservatives voted in favor of that bill.

00:16:14.680 I disagree with it strongly.

00:16:15.760 Now, next, as far as the purpose of this whole thing, notice in this entire story, which used that phrase denialism multiple times, probably about a dozen times, didn't once even attempt to define the word, didn't attempt to create any kind of clarity as to what denialism actually means.

00:16:35.200 Is media questions, media questions surrounding a claim, is that denialism, is showing some skepticism, is that denialism, is asking critical questions, asking for evidence.

00:16:45.980 And when there is no evidence pointing that out, is that denialism, is that denialism, is that denialism?

00:16:49.720 I fear that it is.

00:16:50.880 It seems pretty clear that that's the way that they are heading.

00:16:53.660 It seems like the media is cheering this on.

00:16:56.080 It seems that the liberal government is willing to do something about it.

00:16:58.880 The NDP is pushing for something.

00:17:00.620 The indigenous leadership, according to this report, says that they're all in favor of it.

00:17:05.700 So it's probably just a matter of time.

00:17:07.580 I don't really expect much from the conservatives on this, given that they basically capitulated to describing our residential school system as genocide, despite the effort.

00:17:16.140 So not very optimistic about this one.

00:17:18.820 But until it's a law banning this kind of speech, you can continue to expect to hear critical thinking and critical questions on this program from us here at True North.

00:17:28.560 Thank you so much for tuning in.

00:17:29.940 I'm Candace Malcolm, and this is The Candace Malcolm Show.

The Candice Malcolm Show - November 29, 2023

This video may soon be ILLEGAL

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