The Candice Malcolm Show - Trudeau catastrophically underestimated the truckers (ft. Rupa Subramanya)

00:00:00.000 Who are the truckers and what exactly do they want?

00:00:03.060 Today, I talked to one of the very few legacy media journalists who has bothered to go to the protests,

00:00:08.020 to talk to the truckers, and to seek to answer these very important questions.

00:00:11.960 I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is The Candice Malcolm Show.

00:00:17.920 Hi everyone, thank you so much for tuning into the podcast.

00:00:20.440 So we continue to look at the Freedom Convoy in Ottawa,

00:00:23.740 continue to try to look closely at it and answer some of the questions that are being neglected

00:00:28.340 and failed to be asked by the legacy media.

00:00:31.740 Yesterday on the show, we tried to tackle the question of why the legacy media tried to smear this convoy.

00:00:37.100 Why were they so quick to assume the very worst about the protesters?

00:00:40.920 And why did they fail to cover the protests in good faith?

00:00:43.860 I was joined by Jonathan Kay, who is the editor of Great Interview.

00:00:47.400 I encourage you to go check that out.

00:00:48.760 Today, I want to ask another meaningful question that is being neglected

00:00:52.920 and failed to be questioned or answered by the legacy media.

00:00:55.960 And that is finding out who these truckers are.

00:00:59.060 Who are they as individuals?

00:01:00.840 What has motivated them to get to this point?

00:01:03.080 Why are they at this breaking point?

00:01:04.440 And why are they doing what they're doing?

00:01:06.720 Which is something that's frankly out of character for people who are used to just keeping their head down,

00:01:12.200 working hard, doing what they have to do to survive.

00:01:15.120 They're taking an extraordinary length.

00:01:16.800 They're getting involved in the political and democratic process

00:01:19.040 in a way that they probably haven't ever before in their life.

00:01:21.660 So who are these truckers and what exactly do they want?

00:01:25.720 What is it that they're trying to accomplish by being on Parliament Hill and being in the midst of this standstill?

00:01:31.680 So the media were very quick to jump onto Justin Trudeau's petty, divisive, partisan attacks about the truckers.

00:01:38.500 They assumed that those were true.

00:01:39.700 They assumed that these truckers were dangerous.

00:01:41.440 They were extremists.

00:01:42.480 They were radical. 1.00

00:01:43.080 They were racist. 0.91

00:01:43.940 They were part of the far right.

00:01:45.280 Well, my guest today is challenging all of those very assumptions.

00:01:49.000 And in a recent piece that she wrote, a beautifully written and beautiful photographs that she wrote for Barry Weiss's Substack,

00:01:55.980 she refutes some of these claims and tries to understand more about these truckers,

00:02:00.100 paints a totally different picture of them.

00:02:02.340 And so I'm very pleased today to be joined.

00:02:05.020 My guest today is Rupa Subramania.

00:02:07.900 She is a freelance journalist.

00:02:10.040 She's a columnist over at the National Post.

00:02:12.180 She used to write for the Wall Street Journal, Foreign Policy Magazine.

00:02:16.160 And she is a distinguished fellow at the Asia-Pacific Foundation of Canada.

00:02:20.820 Rupa lives in Ottawa.

00:02:22.240 And like I said, she was one of the few journalists who bothered to go in and take a closer look at these truckers.

00:02:27.860 So, Rupa, thank you so much for joining the podcast.

00:02:29.700 It's great to have you.

00:02:31.000 Thanks for having me, Candice.

00:02:32.320 It's great to be here.

00:02:33.820 So you live in Ottawa and you have been covering these protests very closely.

00:02:38.000 So I want to ask you, how did it feel for you to go into the crowd?

00:02:42.520 And what is your impression of these truckers?

00:02:44.720 Well, when I first got there on the first Saturday of the protests, I went with it keeping an open mind.

00:02:53.880 I'd read all of the news stories about some of the more unpleasant aspects of the convoy.

00:03:01.540 That, you know, there are some people attached to the movement who have white supremacist views and, you know, and they wanted to topple the government.

00:03:14.400 And, you know, and so I'd read all of these stories.

00:03:16.500 I went with it.

00:03:17.780 Just, you know, I wanted to check it out for myself as a resident of the city.

00:03:21.820 I wasn't going there as a journalist or as a columnist.

00:03:27.520 You know, I just really wanted to see what was going on and make up my own mind.

00:03:31.020 And so my first impressions were that it was like a carnival-like atmosphere.

00:03:37.220 I have never seen anything like this in Ottawa.

00:03:40.880 It was, you know, there were people dancing.

00:03:44.320 Of course, you had the sound of honking trucks, the trucks honking.

00:03:50.040 And, you know, it was a carnival-like atmosphere.

00:03:54.440 My first impression was that this looks a bit like Canada Day.

00:03:59.240 You know, I couldn't believe just how many people had shown up, you know, on an extremely cold day.

00:04:05.440 We had multiple extreme cold warnings from Environment Canada, frostbite within minutes of exposure.

00:04:14.740 And I felt it.

00:04:15.580 I have a fairly good jacket.

00:04:16.800 And I, you know, and I, and I, and I'm, you know, very active outdoors in the winter.

00:04:21.800 But that day was bitterly cold.

00:04:23.740 And so that, that was an important part of, you know, of, of, you know, what I'd observed, that there was commitment.

00:04:31.940 You know, these were, these were people not, these people were not showing up because the weather was good.

00:04:37.140 The weather was nice.

00:04:38.100 It was warm.

00:04:39.040 And, you know, and, and, and, and, and, but it was, it was cold.

00:04:43.580 And, and you had, I think, Ottawa police estimated that about 8,000 to 10,000 people showed up on that first day.

00:04:52.160 And that's extraordinary for, for, for this time of year.

00:04:56.020 And that too, in such extreme weather conditions.

00:04:59.880 And, and I, as I made my way through the crowd, I noticed that there was a fair bit of diversity.

00:05:07.200 Of course, the overwhelming demographic characteristic of this protest is white, but we're overwhelmingly white in this country.

00:05:19.260 There's nothing wrong with that.

00:05:20.980 But there's, there was, I did notice C Canadians. 1.00

00:05:25.420 I noticed Chinese Canadians.

00:05:27.460 I noticed Black Canadians.

00:05:28.940 I noticed Indo-Canadians.

00:05:32.140 I, I noticed First Nations and, and, and people from Quebec, people from Alberta, people from Manitoba.

00:05:42.000 These are people who've driven, you know, long distances to get here, to make their voices heard.

00:05:49.840 And so I was, so the diversity of it was the other aspect of it.

00:05:54.000 Um, what was really striking was the friendliness of it all.

00:05:59.160 Uh, you cannot walk through those streets without someone making an, uh, making eye contact with you and smiling, uh, or just random people just coming up to you and giving you a hug.

00:06:09.880 Um, there was a woman who had a, uh, hug me placard on her back. 1.00

00:06:14.360 I, I, and, and, and, and there was a spontaneous, um, uh, hugging of people and, uh, and, you know, and it, it was, it was electric.

00:06:23.600 The atmosphere was electric.

00:06:25.220 There was music.

00:06:26.040 There were block parties, um, and, uh, there were DJs spinning tunes.

00:06:31.200 There were people dancing.

00:06:33.000 I, I, I, I, it was, it almost felt like, you know, there was this great unleashing of all of the stress and worries that people had been carrying for the last two years or so.

00:06:43.900 Um, especially those who, uh, have felt ostracized, uh, because of their, uh, uh, vax status or the fact that they're unvaccinated.

00:06:55.540 Um, uh, I, I spoke to people who are vaccinated, uh, but showed up, uh, in solidarity, uh, uh, uh, with, with those who are unvaccinated because they oppose the mandates.

00:07:07.580 They find them divisive.

00:07:08.800 They find them, uh, find it discriminating.

00:07:11.120 I was really struck on the first day at seeing many people carrying a copy of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

00:07:17.380 That was very, very, so for me, I was, I was thinking, well, why, why would insurrectionists be carrying the Charter of Rights and Freedom?

00:07:25.160 You know, what, what, what is up with that?

00:07:27.720 Uh, but I saw a lot of people doing that and, uh, and I saw messages of hope, peace, unity.

00:07:34.260 Um, I did not see the swastika flags or the Confederate flags.

00:07:38.560 I looked for them.

00:07:40.120 Uh, I'm not, I'm not denying that they were there.

00:07:42.900 You know, I'm not denying that they did, that they showed up at the protest.

00:07:46.720 I just didn't see, see it myself.

00:07:49.400 Uh, but that quickly disappeared.

00:07:51.940 Uh, look, they've been around since, they've been around for 10 days.

00:07:56.020 Um, and apart for those first couple of days where these flags were spotted, uh, across

00:08:01.340 the city, it was that one truck that kept driving around with a Confederate flag.

00:08:05.920 I, I'm sure you, you've seen that image as well.

00:08:08.160 And there was this other image of someone carrying a swastika flag.

00:08:11.860 Um, those, those images, those people haven't shown up.

00:08:15.140 I, I, I haven't seen anything like that.

00:08:17.340 In fact, what's happened is the movement has gotten really, um, big.

00:08:23.000 It, it, it, it almost, I hate, you know, I, you know, it almost sounds like it's inclusive, 1.00

00:08:27.940 you know, it's, it's, it's inclusive of so many, uh, different types of people.

00:08:32.360 It's inviting, uh, their, their, their soup kitchens have, uh, uh, popped up all over,

00:08:38.500 uh, uh, downtown Ottawa.

00:08:40.060 Um, you can, I, I, you know, I just walk, walk around, I can grab a cookie, I can get a

00:08:45.980 burger, I can get a hot dog.

00:08:47.480 It's all free, um, uh, you know, I see them feeding a lot of homeless people, uh, around

00:08:53.420 here, um, the downtown core is, um, you know, has several homeless shelters, um, and, uh,

00:09:00.360 some of them have been doing really badly during the pandemic, um, and, uh, um, and, and so,

00:09:06.280 you know, it was nice to see, um, them being fed and being taken care of, uh, they've joined

00:09:12.040 in, in the protest as well.

00:09:13.380 I've seen them dancing, I've, I've seen them happy, uh, which is extraordinary, uh, there,

00:09:18.600 there was something nice about that, uh, you know, we just, uh, and I, and I, you know,

00:09:24.260 I, I, I also say this, you know, as someone who lives in the city, I often just don't even pay

00:09:29.200 attention to them.

00:09:30.020 I just walk by them, but, but, but, you know, the last few days I've, I've, I've stopped to

00:09:35.800 see the expressions on their faces and they seem happy.

00:09:39.100 They're, they're, you know, they're being, you know, people are speaking to them, people

00:09:43.620 are inviting them to their, um, uh, to these block parties.

00:09:46.980 It's, it's all very, uh, inclusive and there's a party like atmosphere every day.

00:09:52.440 Wow.

00:09:53.040 So just to sort of unpack what you just said, because so much of the things that you said

00:09:57.460 in your own experiences, your own sort of eyewitness understanding of the convoys is in such

00:10:02.200 stark contrast to the legacy media narrative and the things that Justin Trudeau says, you know,

00:10:07.520 we hear from legacy media that these people are stealing from the homeless.

00:10:10.980 Um, you're describing that they're helping care for the homeless.

00:10:13.520 Um, you know, the media try to characterize the whole group, um, by a few French people

00:10:18.080 who showed up for one, for one day and didn't come back.

00:10:20.720 Um, so, so it's interesting.

00:10:21.900 I want to pick up on some of the things that you wrote about in your piece, because I just

00:10:26.200 thought it was so, so powerful.

00:10:27.400 So, so, so first of all, you, you spoke to over 100 protesters gathered in the nation's

00:10:34.260 capital and you, you write that what's happening is far bigger than the vaccine mandates.

00:10:39.640 And one of the themes that I noticed in your piece, Rupa, is that you talk about how these

00:10:43.780 people feel invisible, that they feel ignored, that they feel that the elites don't understand

00:10:48.400 them.

00:10:48.940 And I was wondering if you could, um, expand on that.

00:10:52.700 One of the lines you wrote, um, the elites, the people who have zoomed their way through the

00:10:55.980 pandemic, it's kind of funny because you and I are on zoom right now.

00:10:58.560 And so I think we fit into that later category.

00:11:01.320 Um, however, I think unlike sort of the elites that they're talking about, um, I think that

00:11:06.840 you and I try to have a better understanding of what it's like for other people who haven't

00:11:10.180 been able to have luxury of working from home easily.

00:11:12.460 Like some people have had to work through the pandemic.

00:11:14.820 And so you write the elites had better start paying attention to the fentanyl overdoses,

00:11:18.860 the suicides, the crime, the despair, or else.

00:11:21.820 So, so, so what else is the, is, is the protest about aside from just wanting to, and the

00:11:27.000 mandates, wanting to have their freedom back and, and, and you sort of write the elites

00:11:31.080 had better start paying attention or else.

00:11:32.800 So I wonder, um, if you could expand on that a little bit.

00:11:35.940 Well, um, it's, it, it is, it is principally about opposing the mandates.

00:11:40.360 Uh, uh, you speak to anyone here, the truckers, the protesters, they just want the mandates

00:11:44.940 gone.

00:11:45.340 They want to be left alone.

00:11:46.600 They want their, uh, medical status to be private.

00:11:50.320 Um, uh, it, uh, uh, you know, they, they, they see that and, you know, infringement of their

00:11:56.360 privacy, uh, they, uh, they see, uh, this is, uh, they, they, they, they, um, they want

00:12:02.680 to stand up for their body, bodily autonomy.

00:12:05.280 Um, and, uh, what, what was striking about my, what was striking about the conversations

00:12:11.440 I had with some of these people is that they're not anti-vaxxers, not all of them.

00:12:15.940 Uh, many of them have actually taken other vaccines.

00:12:18.380 They've taken, they take the flu shot.

00:12:19.980 They take, uh, tetanus shots.

00:12:21.320 They take, uh, take travel related vaccines.

00:12:24.260 Um, but they just don't want to take this, this particular vaccine because for one thing,

00:12:30.120 they, uh, feel that it hasn't been out for too long.

00:12:33.160 Um, number two, they feel that, um, it's, um, the, the messaging around it has been very,

00:12:40.060 uh, has been very confusing.

00:12:42.440 Um, it's, uh, been caught up in politics.

00:12:45.160 The, uh, the rhetoric around us around it is divisive, um, and they just feel uncomfortable,

00:12:50.600 uh, being part of that.

00:12:53.220 Um, and, um, and, and then, so, um, you know, it's, it's just, um, um, sorry, I'm just losing

00:13:00.740 my train of thought.

00:13:01.800 So, uh, but, uh, just asking about, you know, like, what, like what, what is it?

00:13:07.760 Yeah.

00:13:08.380 Yeah.

00:13:08.700 So they, principally, they want the mandates to be dropped.

00:13:11.440 That's what they want principally.

00:13:12.780 But it is, there is something bigger going on.

00:13:15.220 They see that the last few years, they have been ignored, that they feel like they're

00:13:20.600 an underclass.

00:13:21.420 They feel that, um, government overreach has reached, uh, has, has, is, is, um, you know,

00:13:30.000 has been extraordinary over the years.

00:13:32.360 Um, they, you know, they, they find that, uh, they're, you know, increasingly, they increasingly

00:13:38.180 feel like they're a prisoner in their own country.

00:13:41.320 They can't say this as a, the culture of political correctness.

00:13:44.980 Um, they get, uh, they're afraid of being doxed on social media.

00:13:48.580 Several of the people, um, uh, that I spoke to were uncomfortable sharing their last names,

00:13:53.660 for example.

00:13:54.220 And that was very interesting.

00:13:55.520 Um, and I asked them, you know, why, um, you know, why are you, what are you so afraid

00:14:00.940 of here?

00:14:01.420 You're here standing up to the government, which is right there.

00:14:04.780 Why won't you give me your last name?

00:14:06.620 And they genuinely fear, uh, uh, government reprisal.

00:14:10.480 They genuinely fear, um, um, um, you know, people taking their names, reporting them to

00:14:16.660 their employers, getting them fired.

00:14:18.960 Uh, and some of that has been happening over the last few days.

00:14:22.280 Um, and so this genuine concern about, um, you know, uh, a collusion, what they see as

00:14:30.400 a collusion between government, big pharma, big tech, uh, and they're all coming together

00:14:36.360 to, to, uh, you know, to, to, uh, to, uh, gang, uh, they're coming together and ganging

00:14:41.960 up on them essentially.

00:14:42.960 Um, and so freedom, that's, that's what they're here for.

00:14:48.860 That's, that's what you hear.

00:14:50.460 That's what you hear.

00:14:51.600 Yes.

00:14:51.780 It's principally about opposing the mandates and, and, and ending all restrictions, ending

00:14:56.760 the mask mandates, um, uh, uh, you know, and no more lockdowns, no more restrictions,

00:15:02.200 uh, but it's about freedom.

00:15:04.720 And that's, uh, that's how I would, uh, distill it down to, because that's what you keep hearing,

00:15:11.320 uh, constantly throughout, um, you know, day in, day in and day out, uh, the flags, it's

00:15:18.080 all about freedom.

00:15:19.240 Uh, we're here for our freedom.

00:15:20.580 We're here for our children's future.

00:15:22.660 Uh, we want our children's future, uh, to, to, to be, uh, you know, to be, you know, to,

00:15:28.340 to, to not have these, to not have this divisiveness.

00:15:31.280 They're here for unity, which is another interesting theme, um, of the, um, of the protests.

00:15:37.520 Um, you know, they, they're tired of the divisiveness.

00:15:40.560 They feel that there's, um, there's been a ratcheting up of that.

00:15:44.280 The rhetoric from our politicians, um, uh, has been, uh, you know, as the, the, the,

00:15:50.860 has gone up and it's created, uh, divisions in the country and they want to see an end to

00:15:56.500 that.

00:15:57.220 Um, and, uh, yeah, so that's, that's, that's pretty much, you know, that's, that's, that's

00:16:02.580 how I would, you know, I would say that it's bigger than the mandates, but it's principally

00:16:07.020 about freedom.

00:16:08.260 It's interesting.

00:16:08.980 I mean, I mean, they're not the only ones who think that the, uh, the, the, the vaccine

00:16:13.580 policies has become divisive.

00:16:15.000 I mean, uh, two members of Justin Trudeau's own liberal caucus have come out and said the

00:16:19.140 exact same thing in recent days.

00:16:21.220 Um, and, and I'm not surprised also that they fear that they don't want to give their name

00:16:25.160 because they fear repercussions because you have journalists online saying, let's report

00:16:30.320 the license plate numbers.

00:16:31.520 Let's call the insurance companies.

00:16:32.900 Let's make sure that these people lose their jobs and lose their livelihood.

00:16:35.720 So I think that their fear is, is justified, uh, given what is happening in, in this situation.

00:16:41.200 I want to pull one other quote that you wrote, Rupa, because it's so interesting.

00:16:45.380 You wrote that if Trudeau sauntered down to the mess of the rigs on Wellington street, if

00:16:50.280 he talked to these people for a few minutes, he would understand it will not stop.

00:16:54.120 What's happening in Canada right now is bigger than the mandate.

00:16:56.260 So what did you mean by it will not stop?

00:16:58.220 I mean, you're, you're in Ottawa right now.

00:16:59.400 We're kind of at an impasse, a standstill.

00:17:01.560 Um, it seems like the police are really cracking down and Trudeau really wants these guys out

00:17:05.940 right now, but, but we, we get the feeling, I get the feeling that this is so much broader

00:17:10.260 than just even the folks in Ottawa, right?

00:17:13.080 We saw the ambassador bridge in Windsor and Detroit completely shut down.

00:17:17.360 Uh, we see another convoy out in Alberta on the Coutts border with Manitoba that are doing

00:17:22.720 the exact same thing, uh, over the weekend, last weekend, we saw huge rallies all over

00:17:26.800 the country, Quebec city, Victoria, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto.

00:17:30.860 I mean, I get the feeling that this isn't ending and it's not going anywhere, but, um,

00:17:35.080 I'm interested in what you think because you wrote, it will not stop.

00:17:37.500 So what did you mean by that?

00:17:38.880 It will not stop until the mandates are dropped.

00:17:41.320 That is what everybody has been saying, uh, that, uh, this is, um, uh, this is where they

00:17:47.120 draw a line in the sand, uh, for them, um, this, this divisiveness has to stop the, they

00:17:53.000 see vaccine mandates as discriminating.

00:17:55.520 Um, they, uh, they, this, they see the vaccine passport system as, um, as a tool of, uh, tool

00:18:03.220 to ostracize them, uh, as publicly shaming them.

00:18:06.600 You know, what is, what, uh, what is missing from the reportage, unfortunately, are, are the

00:18:12.900 stories of these people.

00:18:14.120 They're real people.

00:18:15.000 They've been hurting.

00:18:15.580 Um, they've been bottling up these frustrations, the anger for the last two years, um, and more

00:18:22.120 so in the last few months, since we've had the vaccines and the vaccine passport system,

00:18:25.840 um, came into being, um, they, um, they, they, they, they, they've had an awakening.

00:18:33.020 That's how I would describe it.

00:18:34.440 They've had an awakening.

00:18:35.840 Many of these people didn't really care for politics.

00:18:39.140 They didn't really have any time for it.

00:18:41.160 They're too busy, um, you know, driving their trucks.

00:18:44.500 They're busy at their jobs.

00:18:45.880 They're, uh, frontline workers, like grocery store workers.

00:18:49.220 They're nurses there. 1.00

00:18:51.160 I've even met some civil servants who've been, um, suspended, uh, without, uh, with, without

00:18:56.760 pay, I think, or with pay.

00:18:58.140 I'm not sure what, what, uh, what that, what that is exactly.

00:19:01.720 I think it's without pay if you're unvaccinated.

00:19:03.800 Yeah.

00:19:04.040 Okay.

00:19:04.420 Yeah.

00:19:04.700 And, uh, they're, they're, uh, they're hurting, um, and, uh, and it's, they're hurting and,

00:19:12.300 and, and while they're hurting, we're heaping on these, uh, this abusive, um, uh, rhetoric

00:19:18.880 on them by calling them racist, fringe, unacceptable views.

00:19:23.320 Uh, what is so on next unacceptable about someone who just wants to dine at a restaurant where

00:19:30.220 she works, uh, someone who, who was, uh, their lives have come to a standstill.

00:19:35.780 You know, they, they, they, they, they, they were avid travelers at one point, but they

00:19:40.420 can't, they, they feel like they're a prisoner in their own country because they can't get

00:19:44.040 on a plane, um, uh, and go see their families, uh, in, uh, Greece or Italy or in India.

00:19:51.360 Uh, um, some of them haven't seen their families in three years and that, that is likely going

00:19:56.920 to continue, um, uh, you know, as long as the vaccine, uh, mandate is in place.

00:20:02.100 Um, and so they've had some kind, there's been an awakening.

00:20:06.280 That's how I would describe it, uh, of their, of, of their rights, of, you know, what, of,

00:20:12.500 of their freedom, uh, how important this is to them, uh, and, uh, and that, uh, and that

00:20:18.480 they're going to fight for it no matter what.

00:20:21.000 Um, and, uh, but they all, I should say, I've, I've, they, they're all peaceful.

00:20:26.380 They'll, they'll follow all of the processes in place.

00:20:29.200 Uh, they're not here, uh, to overthrow the Trudeau government.

00:20:33.680 Um, uh, they're not, uh, uh, that is not their objective.

00:20:37.200 They, they just want the truckers and the protesters, uh, really just want the mandates to, to go.

00:20:43.780 And then they say, we'll leave, we'll leave.

00:20:45.660 And we'll, we just want to get back to work.

00:20:47.420 Keep in mind that many of these people, um, some of the truckers are actually still working.

00:20:53.320 Um, they're, they're here on vacation time.

00:20:56.320 Um, uh, some people have taken time out from their work, uh, and, and, and, and so this

00:21:02.080 is, or from their families even, uh, and, and so they, they would like to go back to their

00:21:07.340 lives.

00:21:07.740 Uh, it's not, it's not, not exactly a vacation here.

00:21:11.520 If you're sitting in your truck, um, I don't know if you've been inside one of these big rigs,

00:21:16.360 uh, and I, and I did, they're, they're very difficult to get into and some of them come

00:21:20.780 equipped with the, uh, with, um, with a bunk bed.

00:21:24.040 Um, it's a tiny little space, but imagine spending 10 days, um, in that, uh, day in and

00:21:30.060 day out, you're just sitting in your truck doing nothing.

00:21:33.220 Um, the truckers will say, look, you know, we're used to this, you know, this is what

00:21:37.440 we do for a living.

00:21:38.240 We live in our trucks, essentially.

00:21:39.940 Sometimes our families come with us, but it is quite extraordinary.

00:21:43.340 They're not moving anywhere.

00:21:44.320 They're just stuck in the same spot.

00:21:45.640 Um, and, uh, so, you know, that's, that's, you know, I think that's what they're, they're

00:21:50.560 standing up for freedom, their, their freedom.

00:21:52.460 And they're saying, they also say that there's, I'm standing up for your freedom.

00:21:56.300 You know, it's not just about me.

00:21:57.880 I'm fighting for all of us.

00:21:59.860 Um, and, uh, and, and, and, you know, and I, and I'm, I'm not going to stop till, uh, till

00:22:05.540 we're heard.

00:22:06.340 And what is extraordinary about this so far is that, uh, Prime Minister Trudeau, um, refuses

00:22:12.100 to meet them.

00:22:12.780 The organizers, um, you know, even yesterday when I, when I, when I attended, uh, their,

00:22:19.800 uh, the presser, um, uh, you know, are still open to dialogue, uh, but they haven't, uh,

00:22:27.160 they, they haven't been, uh, they haven't even been acknowledged, uh, uh, by the, uh, by

00:22:33.440 the government, um, you know, they, they had, no one's reached out to them.

00:22:37.500 And, and, and so, um, uh, you know, so I, I think, you know, this is, this is, this is

00:22:42.980 not a good situation in my view.

00:22:45.380 Um, I'm, I'm all for dialogue.

00:22:47.000 I think, I think the government needs to meet them.

00:22:49.400 I think that should have happened last week.

00:22:51.460 Uh, at least hear what they have to say.

00:22:53.460 Um, my, the, the impression I got on the first day when I came home and I spent all day, um,

00:23:00.320 at the protest and I came home in the evening and I came home and, uh, and I, and I, and

00:23:05.240 I told my partner, um, you know, this, uh, they've, they've really misjudged this moment.

00:23:11.220 There's something bigger going on here.

00:23:12.860 Um, our political class is, uh, you know, are completely disconnected from what is happening

00:23:18.260 here.

00:23:18.940 Uh, and this is going to backfire and this is going to have political repercussions.

00:23:23.000 It's going to change the political landscape, whether anyone likes it or not.

00:23:26.740 Um, I tweeted this and, uh, several mainstream media journalists pounced on me and said, ah,

00:23:33.680 this is just a fringe group of people.

00:23:36.660 It's like a PPC gathering.

00:23:38.980 Um, and, uh, you know, but it just got bigger.

00:23:42.300 Uh, and, uh, and, and, and, and, and it just got bigger.

00:23:46.300 It got more diverse.

00:23:47.720 Um, and, and, uh, and, and, and, and here we are.

00:23:50.920 And within a couple of days of the protest, uh, Erin O'Toole had to resign. 1.00

00:23:54.800 Um, and, uh, and now we have a leadership race.

00:23:58.500 So it, it, it, it, and, and, and, and it's, and it's, um, and it's, um, and it's happening.

00:24:03.540 You, you've had already two liberal, uh, MPs from Quebec who've, uh, who've spoken out against

00:24:10.080 the mandates and the divisive rhetoric.

00:24:12.640 And I think, I think it's just going to, uh, keep getting bigger in my opinion.

00:24:17.400 I think you're right.

00:24:18.040 I think that, that anyone who's sort of dismissed this as just another sort of PPC rally.

00:24:22.520 I mean, we've been having, uh, freedom rallies throughout the entire, uh, throughout the entire

00:24:27.680 pandemic.

00:24:28.060 We've seen them in Toronto.

00:24:28.900 We've seen, we saw lots and lots of rallies during the federal election, but what was happening

00:24:34.940 during this convoy just felt different right from the beginning when you saw Canadians go

00:24:39.500 out on overpasses and you would just see those images of overpass after overpass after overpass.

00:24:44.100 I think that inspired the truckers as well.

00:24:45.900 And they started to realize that, you know, when, when the kids were handing out cookies

00:24:49.240 with handwritten notes and you, you had all the kids calling in and thanking the truckers.

00:24:53.060 Like, I mean, the story went around the world and it, I think it inspired people all over

00:24:58.140 the world to say, look, here you have mild mannered law abiding Canadians standing up and

00:25:04.600 saying enough is enough.

00:25:05.520 When, when, when the Canadians are the ones that are, you know, willing to go to these 0.99

00:25:10.940 extreme lengths, um, you, you can tell that they're at their breaking point.

00:25:14.500 And I think that public opinion has sort of shift.

00:25:17.180 I mean, I can point to half a dozen public policy changes that have happened just since

00:25:22.320 this convoy.

00:25:22.920 I mean, you mentioned that we had, uh, uh, the leader of the conservative party replaced.

00:25:27.420 That is a direct result of the convoy, um, and, and his inability to address it in a meaningful

00:25:32.520 way and respect the truckers enough to meet with them.

00:25:34.540 Uh, we had two liberals come out against their own prime minister.

00:25:38.340 I don't think it's happened Rupa since Justin Trudeau was elected, um, aside from the members

00:25:43.180 that he ejected, um, Jody Wilson-Raybould and Phil, uh, Jane Philpott, but, but sitting members

00:25:47.780 of caucus from Quebec, those are his allies, um, speaking out against him.

00:25:52.420 Alberta dropped their vaccine mandate program.

00:25:54.940 Saskatchewan dropped their vaccine mandate program.

00:25:56.760 Manitoba announced that they are, um, loosening restrictions.

00:26:00.520 Restrictions will be eased in Prince Edward Island starting on February 19th.

00:26:05.040 Uh, Quebec planned to lift its pandemic restrictions in mid-March.

00:26:08.720 They also eliminated, um, the plan that they had to have an additional tax levy on, um, people

00:26:15.140 who were unvaccinated.

00:26:16.240 So we're starting to see this, this tide of public opinion change.

00:26:20.940 There's been a couple of major studies that have come out.

00:26:23.220 One from Johns Hopkins showing the lockdowns didn't really work.

00:26:25.560 Uh, we've also seen a lot of public opinion polling.

00:26:29.020 There was a Leger poll that found that 44% of Canadians sympathize with the frustrations

00:26:34.660 of the convoy.

00:26:36.220 We also saw an abacus poll that found really, really remarkably, the overwhelming majority

00:26:41.600 of Canadians think that Justin Trudeau has handled this situation either poorly or very

00:26:45.940 poorly.

00:26:46.780 Um, and interestingly, I don't know if you saw this, but, uh, Joe Biden's press secretary,

00:26:51.540 Jen Psaki was asked about the truckers and, and she said that she respected them and that

00:26:57.340 they have a P a right to peaceful protest.

00:26:59.040 And she was, she was quite positive about them.

00:27:01.320 Almost like, uh, it's just such a stark difference with Trudeau.

00:27:04.500 And I think, I think that, that she, she sees the potential of this trucker convoy to come

00:27:09.560 to the U S and wreak havoc and the American Democrats rely a lot more on working class 0.95

00:27:14.120 voters than, than the liberals do in Canada.

00:27:16.740 So I thought that was really interesting.

00:27:18.640 And I think that, I think that more and more people see the truckers as sort of a mantle

00:27:24.220 for freedom and, and they're starting to side with them more than, more than Trudeau.

00:27:28.300 What do you think is next for Trudeau?

00:27:31.300 What do you think Trudeau should do?

00:27:33.020 What will he do?

00:27:33.800 Um, and, and how can he sort of salvage a situation that seems like he's, he's in a

00:27:37.740 pretty bad place right now?

00:27:39.580 Um, yeah, um, he's got to, uh, you know, um, he has to meet them.

00:27:46.660 He has to try to diffuse the situation, um, because this can't go on indefinitely.

00:27:51.880 Um, um, and, um, and that should have happened last week, as I mentioned earlier.

00:27:57.200 Um, but instead, uh, as recently as a couple of days ago, um, he doubled down on the

00:28:03.780 divisive rhetoric.

00:28:04.580 Uh, he once again mentioned the swastikas and the Confederate flags, which, you know,

00:28:09.240 as I mentioned, they, they, you know, they, they, I'm sure they were there.

00:28:14.320 Uh, well, I haven't seen them, but they haven't returned since.

00:28:17.720 I don't, I don't think that you can say swastikas because from best I can tell there's one guy

00:28:21.400 with the swastika flag.

00:28:22.460 And I think that maybe there was someone else who drew one on a sign, but it wasn't like

00:28:25.820 that, that, that it wasn't like that was what you could classify the entire protest.

00:28:30.520 I mean, there's thousands of Canadian flags.

00:28:32.620 It's like, how can you see thousands of Canadian flags, one Nazi flag, and assume that everyone

00:28:37.480 there holding a Canadian flag is a Nazi?

00:28:39.220 It's, it's so absurd.

00:28:40.380 Yeah, no, it is, it is.

00:28:41.780 And, um, I, you know, I was struck by that as well.

00:28:44.380 And, um, you know, it's unfortunate that that's how it ended up being portrayed, but, but Prime

00:28:49.160 Minister Trudeau really needs to speak to them.

00:28:52.260 Uh, they're open for dialogue.

00:28:53.940 What is extraordinary about this is that these people are being called occupying forces, rebel

00:28:59.120 forces, I've seen journalists referring, refer to them that way as though, you know, I don't

00:29:05.900 know what occupying force or rebel force would be interested in having a dialogue, but that's

00:29:10.900 what they've been saying.

00:29:11.780 You know, we want to speak to the prime minister, let him, why, why doesn't he hear us?

00:29:16.180 Uh, you know, why, why does he continue to pour scorn on us?

00:29:19.760 Um, so, and here's, here's one thing, Candace, and I wrote this recently for the national

00:29:24.640 post, um, uh, that, you know, there is room for compromise.

00:29:28.180 So we have, Prime Minister Trudeau, um, if you've noticed has doubled down on the vaccines

00:29:33.240 or nothing, um, um, um, and has doubled on down on vaccines or nothing.

00:29:38.480 Uh, he, uh, we've have, we have therapeutics.

00:29:42.980 We, uh, in this country, we do not recognize recovery from, uh, COVID, um, uh, Germany does. 0.78

00:29:50.220 Um, um, um, I think Switzerland does a lot of Europe, Denmark does a lot of European countries

00:29:55.820 recognize recovery from COVID.

00:29:58.180 Uh, but we've taken an extraordinary position here that, uh, vaccines are the only thing that

00:30:04.280 is going to get out of our, uh, get us out of the pandemic, uh, given the fact that most

00:30:08.800 of us are vaccinated, I'm triple vaccinated.

00:30:10.920 I've also recovered from Omicron recently.

00:30:14.140 And, um, and, and, uh, you know, and, and, but it's, it's, you know, so I'm not, you know,

00:30:19.940 I, I urge people to get vaccinated.

00:30:21.620 I think, I think you should, I think it does.

00:30:24.240 I believe in the science.

00:30:25.140 I think it does prevent you from, uh, it, it, it, uh, you know, it, uh, prevents you from,

00:30:30.540 uh, winding up in the ICUs.

00:30:32.400 I do believe in that.

00:30:33.560 Um, but, uh, but, but we've taken a very, um, um, um, you know, extreme position here

00:30:40.040 that if you are not vaccinated, you're not going to get out of the pandemic, uh, given

00:30:44.460 the fact that we're, you know, a country that is, that has had one of, has one of the highest

00:30:50.060 vax rates in the world.

00:30:51.260 Um, so, and what is also happening here is that Canada is increasingly an outlier, uh, among,

00:30:58.320 uh, developed, uh, Western countries, uh, where, where, where they're, uh, seeing the end game

00:31:04.800 of the pandemic, uh, they're, uh, they're getting, uh, so yesterday, New York, um, got rid of, uh,

00:31:11.280 indoor mask use, um, uh, uh, Europe is getting rid of, uh, some European countries, um, are, uh, you know,

00:31:20.620 are dismantling the vaccine passport system like Switzerland, um, and, and, uh, and what is

00:31:26.040 extraordinary here is that we're doubling down on these things, um, and we're not recognizing,

00:31:31.060 um, a recovery from infection, which is, which I think is an important step to take.

00:31:36.700 Uh, I think it would be something that should come from our public health officials.

00:31:40.580 I'm not sure why they refuse to do that.

00:31:43.060 Several of the people that I've met at the protests, uh, have had COVID.

00:31:47.060 Um, I, I don't know if you're aware of a recent, uh, CDC study that came out, uh, saying that people

00:31:52.460 who've recovered from COVID have very high antibodies, um, uh, even higher than those of us who've been

00:31:58.540 vaccinated.

00:31:59.300 So why is it that we don't do that?

00:32:01.040 Why is it that we don't recognize, uh, natural immunity, which is as old as time itself?

00:32:05.860 Um, it's extraordinary that we put all, uh, we've put everything on vaccines, but we've

00:32:12.780 ignored everything else that could be testing.

00:32:15.340 Why are we so behind in testing?

00:32:17.920 Um, yesterday I, I saw a news report, uh, that, uh, that, you know, uh, if you live in

00:32:23.660 Ontario, you can now finally get these rapid tests by walking into a pharmacy or a grocery

00:32:29.640 store, you know, the rest of the world, including India, where I originally come from,

00:32:35.600 that's been the case for more than a year.

00:32:37.680 Uh, what, what is going on?

00:32:40.240 Who, who do we, who, who's responsible for it?

00:32:42.500 Is it the feds?

00:32:43.280 It's, is it the provincial governments?

00:32:45.000 Why are we so, uh, you know, behind on something as basic as rapid tests?

00:32:50.480 Uh, because rapid tests was something that could have been a lot more useful during the

00:32:54.720 previous Delta waves.

00:32:55.620 I'm not even sure that it accurately will let you know whether you have Omicron or not.

00:33:00.260 I've heard really competing stories in my own family.

00:33:02.680 Uh, we had to test my son like five times, even though we knew that he had COVID, we

00:33:05.980 knew that he'd be exposed to a swim coach and he was showing the symptoms and he kept

00:33:09.820 testing negative on these rapid tests.

00:33:12.100 And we finally took him in for a PCR and it was positive.

00:33:14.740 I don't even know why we bothered because it was just, I guess, peace of mind to confirm

00:33:18.160 it.

00:33:18.760 But, uh, I've had, I've had just, even in my own household, so many weird instances where

00:33:23.660 someone's positive one day and negative the next day.

00:33:26.060 It's like, I'm not sure how, how accurate those are, but I get, I get your point that

00:33:30.140 Canada just seems to be really dead set on vaccines and not looking at even, even sort

00:33:36.100 of the underlying health issues.

00:33:37.740 I took issue with a Trudeau, um, for her, his former health minister.

00:33:42.220 I actually, I'm not sure she's still the health minister, Patty Haju, but she said that she

00:33:45.540 didn't recommend people take vitamin D supplements, uh, which is, is really, really puzzling.

00:33:50.800 Um, given what we know about the, uh, number of people who have COVID who also have vitamin

00:33:56.580 D deficiencies and there have been lots of studies.

00:33:58.920 And so the fact that she's telling people not to take vitamin D supplements is just curious

00:34:03.840 because it's like, why, why wouldn't you tell people to do everything they can to be

00:34:07.120 healthy, go outside and get exercise, get some fresh air, make sure you eat a healthy

00:34:10.620 diet and take vitamin D supplements.

00:34:12.600 We live in the North and we don't get a lot of sun during the winter.

00:34:14.580 Like it just seems like some of those basic messages have never been communicated to the

00:34:19.580 public.

00:34:19.980 In fact, what is striking, um, is that, and I have doctors in my family and they say, you

00:34:25.640 know, what is missing from the messaging here from our public health officials is that, uh,

00:34:31.420 they don't, nobody even talks about, uh, trying to be healthy, trying to stay fit, trying to,

00:34:36.680 you know, so you close gyms, uh, which is extraordinary when, you know, that could actually help you,

00:34:42.320 uh, you know, uh, give you the tools to fight COVID if you were to get it.

00:34:46.540 Um, so we, we've, we've had it completely backwards.

00:34:50.300 For example, gyms in the UK were open during Omicron.

00:34:53.480 We closed everything down.

00:34:55.140 Uh, we, we, we just, we just, we, the first sign of trouble here, we, we shut everything

00:34:59.920 down like the Rideau center, which is, which has been closed indefinitely, but the businesses

00:35:04.120 around it are, uh, are, you know, are open.

00:35:06.700 Um, so, you know, I think, I think it's, it's important that our, our political class, our

00:35:12.720 political elites, uh, uh, uh, principally, uh, Prime Minister Trudeau, uh, they need to

00:35:18.140 really think long and hard, uh, about what is happening in the country right now, um, and,

00:35:24.020 and, and, and, and listen to, you know, and pay attention to the frustrations of these

00:35:28.620 individuals.

00:35:29.040 They are, you're, they're, you're the prime minister of all Canadians, not just those who voted

00:35:34.340 for you, um, and these frustrations are real, uh, uh, and, and, and the, and some of the

00:35:41.520 stories are heartbreaking, um, and, and he really needs to, uh, diffuse the situation,

00:35:47.640 um, uh, go and speak to the convoy organizers, uh, hear them out, uh, chart out a plan, um,

00:35:55.480 you know, what is, what is, what is happening right now is that we, um, don't seem to have

00:36:00.940 an end game in sight.

00:36:02.000 Um, yesterday, the health minister, uh, in Ontario, uh, refused to tell us when, when

00:36:08.580 we're going to get out of this, um, you know, this roadmap is all well and good, but, you

00:36:13.240 know, it doesn't really get us back to 2019, does it, uh, when the rest of the world is

00:36:17.820 moving in that, uh, direction, um, so, you know, it raises questions, why, uh, what, what

00:36:24.240 is going on here?

00:36:25.000 What, what, what are we so afraid of?

00:36:27.300 We're, uh, what is it?

00:36:28.780 Eighty percent or more double vaccinated here?

00:36:31.720 And Trudeau said yesterday that nine out of 10 Canadians are now vaccinated.

00:36:35.240 So, uh, vaccines are, are way out of the pandemic.

00:36:38.480 So what is that going to be now?

00:36:40.060 I mean, 110 percent?

00:36:41.760 I'm not sure.

00:36:42.520 Uh, and, uh, but, you know, I'll also tell you, uh, Candace, that, um, uh, what I've also

00:36:48.300 now seen is that, um, you know, I'm, it's, it's not, it's, it's in, I've been noticing

00:36:53.300 it.

00:36:53.660 This is even before the, uh, protesters and the convoy arrived in Ottawa, uh, people who

00:36:59.420 are triple vaccinated are living in fear.

00:37:02.540 They're, they're walking around with masks outdoors.

00:37:06.820 I, I never, I never thought that I would see that.

00:37:10.080 Um, I, I, you know, I, I get it.

00:37:12.480 I mean, as long as the mask mandate isn't in place, I'm going to wear a mask wherever,

00:37:16.320 wherever I go, but I certainly will not wear a mask when I'm outdoors because that just,

00:37:20.780 it's, it's just crazy.

00:37:22.260 Being outdoors is what they've been telling us being outdoors is better than being indoors.

00:37:26.400 Well, we've known that since the very beginning of the pandemic that, uh, that COVID doesn't

00:37:30.700 really spread outside.

00:37:31.380 I'm not sure about Omicron, but, and we saw that with our own prime minister, he's triple

00:37:34.840 vaxxed.

00:37:35.260 He just recovered from COVID and he's standing outside wearing a mask.

00:37:39.220 It's like, how are we supposed to believe that, that vaccines get us out of the pandemic

00:37:44.120 when you've had COVID, you had, you're vaccinated, you still had COVID like so many other Canadians. 0.82

00:37:48.560 I know so many Canadians that are double, triple vaxxed, still got COVID, including everyone

00:37:52.140 in my household.

00:37:53.520 And, and yet here you are still wearing a mask, still imposing all of these things.

00:37:58.040 So it's, it's really hard to believe him when he doesn't even live up to what he's

00:38:03.000 saying.

00:38:03.420 His, his rhetoric doesn't match his own actions.

00:38:05.760 And, and that those images are powerful.

00:38:07.680 When you see the prime minister of the country at a press conference outside and there's really

00:38:12.280 no one else around, you know, there's a lot of distance between him and whoever is there.

00:38:17.140 But he's still wearing a mask.

00:38:19.220 He's triple vaccinated and recovered from COVID that people, people see that.

00:38:24.780 And the, and the triple vaccinated, I find are more fearful than the unvaccinated, which 1.00

00:38:31.040 is extraordinary.

00:38:31.920 And you see that here, you, you can spot the triple vaccinated or the double vaccinated and

00:38:37.940 the ones who are unvaccinated, the unvaccinated who are dancing and smiling and hugging everybody.

00:38:43.920 It's the double, triple vaccinated who are walking around in masks, looking grumpy, their 1.00

00:38:48.900 shoulders, you know, stooped and, you know, they're slouching and you can see them, you

00:38:56.020 can spot them.

00:38:57.480 And, you know, so it tells me, it tells me that this, this, this, I don't know how big

00:39:04.960 this is, how, how big their numbers are.

00:39:06.900 It tells me that I, some people are just not ready to say goodbye to the pandemic.

00:39:11.560 Now, how much of that is reflected in the decisions that our politicians are making?

00:39:16.980 I don't know, because at the end of the day, they're also humans.

00:39:20.460 They're also, you know, they're also susceptible to the fear and, and concerns about going back

00:39:28.820 to normal life.

00:39:30.240 But, but, but it is quite extraordinary.

00:39:34.060 And, and, and so, you know, I think, I think going back to your question, I do think that

00:39:38.280 Prime Minister Trudeau, it's time for him to speak to them.

00:39:41.300 This is not a good look for the country, Candace.

00:39:43.680 I'm getting messages from people all over the world saying, you know, what is going on?

00:39:49.280 I mean, he's, you know, why doesn't he talk to them?

00:39:51.840 Why doesn't he, why doesn't he, why doesn't he speak to them?

00:39:55.120 Why doesn't he engage with them?

00:39:56.660 What is going on in Canada?

00:39:57.940 And, and, and, you know, and you mentioned Joe Biden's press secretary.

00:40:01.800 I think, you know, I think there's another element to this.

00:40:04.840 Politicians everywhere else are watching this.

00:40:07.300 And I think they're, and they're, and they're taking notes.

00:40:10.660 And, and, and they, and they're saying, look, I don't think it's a good idea for us to double

00:40:15.420 down the way Justin Trudeau has, because, you know, we're going to see mass protest movements

00:40:21.120 here as well.

00:40:21.840 And, and that's not something we want to deal with right now.

00:40:25.480 And that I'm sure that's happening.

00:40:27.620 And I think that's, you know, probably because of the truckers.

00:40:31.480 And, but again, we're an outlier here.

00:40:35.620 I don't know what, what, what, what the thinking here is.

00:40:39.040 I don't know how Trudeau comes out of this.

00:40:41.780 You know, how this is advantageous for Trudeau politically.

00:40:46.640 I remember early on in the protest, several people were saying, oh, this is, you know,

00:40:52.100 Trudeau is going to get, win a majority in the next election.

00:40:55.140 This is a done deal because these, these people have managed to do that.

00:41:00.180 I'm not so sure about that anymore.

00:41:02.100 I think, I think public opinion, the, the narrative is changing.

00:41:07.240 It's, it's changing.

00:41:08.300 Um, uh, and, uh, and I, and even people who are skeptical, uh, questioning about the, questioning

00:41:16.220 the protests, you know, are tired of the restrictions.

00:41:19.560 They do want to go back to life, normal life.

00:41:23.240 Um, and they want to put this behind them.

00:41:25.840 And ironically, that is what the truckers and the protesters want.

00:41:29.700 They want their lives back.

00:41:31.420 Well, it's so, uh, interesting to hear your perspective, Rupa.

00:41:34.520 And I really appreciate, um, not just coming on the show, cause it's great to talk to you,

00:41:37.980 but I appreciate the fact that you go out there, you go against the grain.

00:41:41.280 You don't just do what everyone else in the legacy media does.

00:41:44.100 And you really sought, um, to tell the other side of the story.

00:41:46.920 So it's great to, great to have you on the show.

00:41:48.720 I appreciate your time.

00:41:49.780 Um, that's Rupa Subramania.

00:41:51.640 Thank you so much for joining us.

00:41:53.360 Thanks, Candice.

00:41:54.520 Thanks for having me.

00:41:55.860 Thank you so much.

00:41:56.740 All right.

00:41:57.020 Thank you for tuning in.

00:41:57.800 I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is the Candice Malcolm show.

The Candice Malcolm Show - February 10, 2022

Trudeau catastrophically underestimated the truckers (ft. Rupa Subramanya)

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