The Candice Malcolm Show - Trudeau wants to decide what you see on the news

00:00:00.000 What are qualified Canadian journalism outlets and why has the Canadian government put itself

00:00:04.880 in charge of deciding what you get to see for your news? I'm Candice Malcolm and this is the

00:00:08.760 Candice Malcolm Show. Hi everyone, thank you so much for tuning into the podcast. So we've been

00:00:24.480 talking in recent days and weeks about the new legislation being put forth by the Trudeau

00:00:29.420 government and how it restricts our ability to speak freely as Canadians. It impacts our free

00:00:34.960 speech as well as freedom of the press and today I wanted to look specifically at Bill C-18 and

00:00:41.620 discuss how it impacts the news that you see. So it's called the Online News Act and part of this

00:00:48.420 legislation is designating certain journalism outlets as qualified Canadian journalism outlets. So in

00:00:55.220 order to be approved by the government, we've learned, you have to be approved by a small board

00:01:00.500 put together by the Trudeau government. So I want to go back to a Twitter thread put out by Jesse Brown.

00:01:06.100 Jesse Brown is the publisher and editor-in-chief over at Candleland. We put out a request to Jesse

00:01:11.100 to see if he'd want to come join the podcast and discuss what he's found. He hasn't gotten back to

00:01:15.980 us. If he does, I'd be happy to have him on the show. But Jesse Brown writes this. He says,

00:01:20.420 In 2020, the Trudeau government started paying ongoing subsidies to newspapers. It was a trip

00:01:26.360 into the unknown. How did government decide which papers to bail out and which to let die? What about

00:01:31.800 independence of the press? Big questions. Now, there are two years of answers threads. So this

00:01:37.300 is a thread that Jesse put together back on April 4th. So he continues. He writes,

00:01:41.860 Meet the five people who decide which news orgs are qualified Canadian journalism outlets,

00:01:46.620 which are known as QCJOs. It's a board of news experts, academics and retired journalists paid

00:01:53.400 by government to read articles from every news organization that applied and decide which are

00:01:59.160 up to the snuff. So here we see the five people who are appointed to this Trudeau government board.

00:02:04.500 And as you can see from this map, we have four people from Eastern Canada. Looks like two from

00:02:09.960 Quebec, one from Ottawa, which is almost basically Quebec, and one from the Maritimes. You have no one

00:02:15.540 from the entire center of the country, no one from the prairies, no one from the West, one person from

00:02:21.980 Vancouver. So really not a very balanced organization here regionally, if you ask me. But these are the

00:02:28.360 people who determine whether or not you are qualified. So Jesse continues. He says, In year one of the media

00:02:34.920 bailout, the board passed judgment on 159 news organizations. In June, they released their first

00:02:40.860 annual report. So how many news orgs from the 159 got in? Which ones? How much money did they get?

00:02:47.240 Also, who got rejected and why? And so he shows a screenshot from the annual report, it shows the

00:02:53.080 statistics. So between March 2020 and March 2021, the board has received and returned to the CRA a total

00:03:00.420 of 159 requests for recommendation. Of those 157 recommendations were QCJO designated applications, and two

00:03:09.800 were rejected. Okay, so so two were rejected, 157 were approved. But as Jesse continues, he says they aren't

00:03:16.840 telling. The names of the news organizations currently funded by taxpayers is a secret. The amounts they receive

00:03:22.500 are a secret. The names of those rejected are a secret. And the reasons why they were rejected are a secret. The board meets in

00:03:29.680 secret. There are no videos online of their meetings, no minutes can be read. Canadian newspapers said

00:03:35.240 that they would die without government aid. This board decides which ones qualify for it. Their

00:03:39.860 rulings could mean life or death for a news org, and it's all kept a secret. And then he says, don't blame

00:03:43.900 the board. It wasn't their choice. Governments chose to put this under the CRA, where tax laws conceal the

00:03:49.420 names of the beneficiaries. This broke an explicit promise of transparency that Minister Pablo Rodriguez made

00:03:56.500 to Evan Solomon. So here is a clip from CTV with Evan Solomon, the journalist, asking the Heritage Minister whether it be

00:04:04.120 secret. And you can see Minister Rodrigo's response right here. Here is that clip.

00:04:08.680 Will you promise to make every decision this advisory group makes and the next group makes transparent in terms of how your

00:04:17.180 government decides, who is what your government calls a qualified journalistic organization, and why they got the money? Will all that be

00:04:24.880 transparent and no secrecy? Absolutely. Absolutely. All the recommendations. And so they'll be making

00:04:32.040 recommendations on a lot of things. And some, some will maybe, anyways, 100% of the recommendations, as you were

00:04:39.920 asking, will be, will be public. It is because it's the whole intent of our action, making, making sure that this is done on an

00:04:49.240 arm's length basis, respecting the experts that sit on those panels. You know, the groups that are consulting to name

00:04:56.100 experts, can name people in their organization, can name people outside of their own organization. So we'll listen

00:05:03.600 to them, we'll listen to what they say, and we'll definitely make it public. It's really important that we do so. And we will.

00:05:09.200 And again, he says 100% transparency, the minister promised 100% transparency. And yet, we know nothing. The only thing we

00:05:17.280 know, as Brown later points out in his Twitter thread, is that the only people who we know what funding they receive

00:05:23.860 are publicly traded news companies who have to disclose their funding. So Post Media got $6.9 million in tax

00:05:30.020 credits. In 2020, the Toronto Star got $6.8 million. But we don't know for other newspapers that were privately

00:05:35.720 held such as the Globe and Mail. We do know about one organization that was rejected because they

00:05:41.700 themselves made it public. I'm talking about Rebel News. You may have heard the news last week that

00:05:46.220 Ezra Levant, Rebel Commander and Rebel News is suing the government after their outlet was denied to be

00:05:52.960 covered under this qualified Canadian journalism organization status. And so Levant tweeted this out.

00:05:59.760 He said that the board reviewed his content. They looked at a total of 276 news stories. It took

00:06:07.280 them over a year to do that. And the board, this is a quote from Ezra, they declared to get this,

00:06:13.220 that quote, less than 1% of the content meets the criteria for original news. So what a strange world

00:06:19.560 we live in, where the government is the one that gets to determine whether or not you're a journalist,

00:06:25.260 a qualified journalism organization, whether you qualify for funding, then there's a whole bunch

00:06:30.380 of other consequences that come with that. So joining me today on the podcast, I'm really pleased

00:06:35.180 to welcome my friend and colleague, Andrew Lawton. Andrew is a senior journalist here with True

00:06:40.740 North, and he is the host of The Andrew Lawton Show. Andrew, thank you so much for joining us today.

00:06:46.320 Hey, always a pleasure. Thanks for having me on.

00:06:48.480 So, I mean, I don't think that you will be a very big fan of this regime that's being brought in

00:06:54.200 when it comes to the mix of journalism and government. What do you think of this whole

00:06:59.360 secret panel and a government-appointed panel in the first place getting to determine

00:07:03.500 who is and who isn't a journalist? You know, I remember when the Global Conference for Media

00:07:10.120 Freedom took place back in July of, I think, 2019. And the government of Canada was in the UK talking

00:07:18.260 a big game about media freedom in Congo and media freedom in Venezuela and media freedom in Iran

00:07:24.000 without looking in the mirror and talking about its own very dismal record to media freedom.

00:07:28.880 And this isn't just the Liberal Party banning independent journalists from covering its campaign

00:07:33.300 events, but as we see here, it's the government getting into the business of deciding what a

00:07:39.060 journalist is. And this is something that is quite significant because it also means the government

00:07:44.400 is, as in the case of Rebel, also saying what isn't a journalist. And the idea of a government

00:07:50.540 designation, something that doesn't exist in Canada in the form of a license, is now effectively coming

00:07:56.940 in through the back door through this. Because if you're someone that is, let's just look at the

00:08:01.080 convoy as a great example. When you had police questioning people as to why they were walking

00:08:05.440 down the streets of Ottawa, and you could say, I'm a journalist, and they'd say, well, prove it.

00:08:10.420 And the response that I'd give is, well, there is no national license to be a journalist in Canada.

00:08:15.160 If you want to be a journalist, you just work as a journalist. But now when government is doing this,

00:08:20.120 that they're actually making themselves the gatekeepers. And it's very, very dangerous.

00:08:25.320 Well, I remember you telling the stories about how they were asking for like an official piece

00:08:28.520 of government ID. And to me, that's so Ottawa, that's such an Ottawa mentality that if you're

00:08:32.760 something official, you have some kind of an ID card. And basically what they were asking for was a

00:08:37.980 parliamentary press pass, which True North doesn't have. I mean, we can apply for temporary ones.

00:08:43.720 But this is really formalizing it. So what else? So if you become a qualified outlet,

00:08:50.680 I know you can apply for government funding. True North has chosen not to, because we don't want

00:08:55.800 government funding. We're not interested. So we haven't even bothered putting an application in.

00:09:00.680 What else is this qualification? What does it do? Aside from just government funding, does it have any

00:09:08.260 other powers? Does it have any other ability to prevent or enable journalists from practicing in

00:09:15.360 Canada? Well, not directly, but you have to look at the broader package of what the government is

00:09:21.580 trying to do here. And in the last parliament, there were three bills that significantly regulated

00:09:27.100 the internet. And a couple of those have come back already. Bill C-10 has come back as C-11.

00:09:32.240 One of the other ones came back as C-18, which is what we're talking about now. And then there was

00:09:37.040 also an online hate speech bill. And all of these combined basically expand the purview of the

00:09:43.860 government to regulate the internet and regulate internet content providers. And one of the things

00:09:49.140 that Minister Stephen Gilboa has said is that, well, we're not going to regulate news providers.

00:09:53.800 But the definition of what a news provider is, is now something that the government gets to decide.

00:09:59.980 So if they say, well, we don't recognize you as a news agency, all of a sudden the government is able

00:10:05.280 to regulate someone. So the government could regulate someone like Rebel News, for example,

00:10:09.880 as a group the government does not recognize as a legitimate journalism organization. And the reason

00:10:16.180 this also is significant is one of the things they're trying to do is force social media companies

00:10:21.780 like Facebook and Google to pay for news. So they want big tech to subsidize news.

00:10:27.540 Now, I've got a lot of issues with big tech, but I have to defend the tech companies here

00:10:31.800 because news is a very small subset of what they do. And Facebook has been very transparent or meta

00:10:37.640 rather to its credit about this, as far as the small percentage of their market share

00:10:42.460 that is related to news content. They get a lot more money out of influencers and silly videos and

00:10:49.200 cats and memes and all of that than they do out of news. And what the government is saying that,

00:10:53.920 no, no, no, you need to pay these companies. So it isn't just about the tax credits. It's not

00:10:58.040 just about evading government licensing. It's also about forcing a pipeline of money from big tech

00:11:03.780 companies to subsidize journalism. It's so funny where we're now in the situation where we're

00:11:09.300 defending these tech companies because usually, you know, we're some of the biggest critics of them.

00:11:14.140 But I'm just reading here that Bill C-18, the Online News Act, would ensure that news media and

00:11:20.560 journalists receive fair compensation for their work. So it would require tech giants to make fair

00:11:26.420 deals with outlets for the news and information that is shared on their platform. It just seems,

00:11:30.860 I mean, to me, the idea that somehow the government, the Trudeau government thinks that it is the one that

00:11:36.200 is responsible for ensuring that journalists get fair compensation for their work. Like, I thought that

00:11:42.200 was the job of the market, right? It's like, if you're a competent journalist who is able to get

00:11:47.880 people to pay for your work and encourage people that there's value in your work, that's up to the

00:11:54.220 journalists, that's up to the consumer, that's up to the market. This whole idea that somehow Trudeau is

00:11:59.820 going to like valiantly step in and, you know, be the knight in shining armor to save these media outlets

00:12:06.740 is just sort of, to me, it seems so antiquated and out of touch, Andrew, to your point that most of the

00:12:12.760 people who have huge audiences on social media platforms, it's because they're doing something

00:12:17.560 fun and compelling, not because the government is forcing their hand. I'm just wondering, like,

00:12:26.600 do you think this is going to work? Do you think that somehow this is going to save outlets like

00:12:31.740 Post Media and Toronto Star and Globe and Mail from the fate that they've seen over the last

00:12:36.700 several years of just declining readership and declining profits? I know. I mean, you can,

00:12:42.900 the problem is they need a business model that is going to be modern. And unfortunately, the only

00:12:48.760 alternative that's being offered up by government and also by a lot of these outlets is the subsidy

00:12:54.880 model. That's basically it. I mean, when we say find a new model, we don't mean replace

00:12:59.700 advertising and subscriptions with government subsidy. We mean, be innovative, do what True

00:13:04.880 North is doing, do what Rebel is doing, do what Epoch Times is doing. I mean, there's a whole host

00:13:09.220 of independent media companies that have developed new models, yet newspapers have tremendous overhead.

00:13:15.880 They've got these giant, you know, multi-million dollar buildings and downtown spaces. They've got

00:13:20.600 real estate holding. I mean, all of this stuff. And it isn't viable. It isn't working at all. But the

00:13:25.380 answer to that is not to get government to bankroll it, when even that hasn't exactly stopped layoffs

00:13:31.560 for media companies. And interesting thing here about social media is that we are talking about

00:13:39.360 companies here that are not messing around in some ways. And they're bigger than the countries

00:13:44.940 that are passing these. I remember when Australia moved very aggressively to do a very similar thing

00:13:50.840 to what Minister Gilboa was doing. And there was a time when Facebook, in protest of this,

00:13:55.460 banned you from sharing a link to an Australian news website. And I know for whatever reason,

00:14:01.400 my website had an Australian server. And there was a time until I got it sorted out where you

00:14:07.280 couldn't share a link to my website because Facebook thought I was an Australian, which may

00:14:12.040 have been a compliment. I don't know. But that was a very chilling thing when all of a sudden you're

00:14:16.640 trying to share a link and you're getting the old New York Post, Hunter Biden laptop treatment of

00:14:20.800 just the link will not post because Facebook has decided it's not worth the hassle. And I fear

00:14:27.060 that could happen in Canada. Any companies that are saying, we want Facebook to subsidize us,

00:14:33.320 I would say, well, are you not posting your content on Facebook? Are you not using Facebook and Twitter

00:14:38.700 to amass an audience? I mean, you need them more than they need you.

00:14:44.060 Well, it's so funny because we were talking about this. I remember when this,

00:14:46.880 because the media companies, the newspapers have been advocating for this for a long time. And it's

00:14:52.060 kind of funny, Andrew, I know in the early days when we were trying to get accredited for the

00:14:56.100 liberal campaign to have you embedded as a journalist there back at the 2019 election,

00:15:01.160 they were saying, no, you guys can't come because you're not journalists, you're activists,

00:15:04.540 right? And you do advocacy or something like that, which we don't, but that's just sort of code

00:15:09.640 their way of saying conservatives aren't welcome, basically, or conservative news outlets.

00:15:14.140 But anyway, at the same time, the newspapers were doing a real advocacy campaign to the Trudeau

00:15:19.340 government lobbying for them to get this kind of treatment. And, and, and one of the things was

00:15:24.100 that, you know, Facebook, everyone knows that Facebook and Google have sort of eaten the lunch

00:15:27.840 of the advertising company, you can you can, if you want to buy an ad for a small business,

00:15:31.320 you can target your audience so much better on Facebook and Google, you can reach the exact type

00:15:36.360 of person where that you want. Whereas if you put an ad in a newspaper, you know, it goes to

00:15:40.660 everybody and most of those people won't even pay any attention to your to your ad and you're not

00:15:46.400 going to get good bang for your buck. So Google and Facebook do a much better job with advertising

00:15:51.440 than these newspaper companies. But the idea was, oh, you know, people can share our content for free

00:15:56.780 on Facebook. You go to like almost any link shared by the Toronto Star. And it's like the only ones

00:16:03.020 sharing it are the Toronto Star. So somehow the Toronto Star wants to be compensated for the fact

00:16:08.660 that they're sharing their own news story on Facebook. And then it's wild, because that's

00:16:13.680 basically what this what this bill does is making sure that Facebook and Google pay these companies

00:16:20.160 for every time their link is shared online, even though they, frankly, they don't get shared that

00:16:25.100 much. A lot of the stuff they put out isn't that interesting. People aren't that, you know,

00:16:29.420 interested in sharing this kind of stuff. I wonder you, you mentioned the whole Australia thing,

00:16:33.840 and how Facebook, Facebook kind of just flex their muscles and said, like, we don't have to do this,

00:16:38.340 because all we have to do is shut you down, you have no recourse. Do you think that the tech

00:16:44.120 companies are going to go along with this? Because all of this legislation says we've modeled after

00:16:48.500 Australia. When I hear that, I kind of laugh, because I think the Australia legislation was a

00:16:53.380 failure. Like, they introduced this legislation, Facebook flexed by just completely shutting off all

00:16:58.980 the news stories, like you mentioned. And then Australia had to go and rejig and rewrite their

00:17:03.760 legislation so that it wasn't as aggressive because Facebook slapped it down so hard. So

00:17:08.200 I have a hard time imagining that big tech companies in Silicon Valley will go along with

00:17:14.140 government kind of trying to meddle in their business, meddle with their algorithm, tell them

00:17:18.160 they have to pay. Once they do this, it sets a precedent that they're going to have to do this

00:17:21.820 for all kinds of other governments. What do you think? Yeah, that's certainly the concern is that

00:17:26.500 all of a sudden, and again, these companies have invested considerably in government relations and

00:17:31.080 lobbying. So they are engaging with government on this. And I know they're probably trying to exact

00:17:35.980 concessions behind the scenes here. And again, how powerfully they're going to be able to do that,

00:17:40.960 we don't know. Governments are committed more to ideology right now. They want to be able to say

00:17:46.060 they're saving local news and saving journalism and all of this. But the result of it is that you have

00:17:51.280 a journalism industry that is entirely dependent on government. And even if, I mean, this is why it's

00:17:56.900 so brilliant, because government can pass a bill that makes Facebook and Google and Twitter and

00:18:02.160 whatever subsidize news outlets, but it's government that's claiming the credit. It's government that's

00:18:08.040 doing it without actually having to shell out the money. And they're saying, no, no, no, we're not

00:18:12.380 subsidizing. We're not paying, but we're saving, we're saving media. And in doing so, that is going

00:18:18.960 to be very difficult for the next government to take away. And we even saw in the last election in

00:18:24.440 September, Aaron O'Toole, and we can have a different discussion about the why, but Aaron O'Toole was very

00:18:30.080 reticent to say, we're going to rip up the $600 million media bailout and CBC defunding, because it

00:18:36.220 becomes very difficult once government has decided to establish some pot of money for something for

00:18:41.400 another government to go in and take that away. 0.80

00:18:43.960 Which is why you never see the rollback of government policies. And you're right. I mean, I hate to give

00:18:48.840 Trudeau any credit, but it's the brilliance of his campaign. And you can go back because in 2015, Andrew,

00:18:54.340 the Trudeau government pledged to quadruple a cut that had been made by the Harper government. So

00:19:00.940 I think Harper cut $150 million and Trudeau came back with like $500 million or something like that

00:19:08.320 in additional funds. So he basically won that election in part by bribing the CBC saying,

00:19:13.860 if you elect me, you'll get all this money. If you elect the other guy, you won't and you could lose

00:19:17.980 your job, which puts a journalist in a direct conflict of interest where their livelihood could

00:19:22.940 potentially be at stake. They were so successful in 2015 doing that. They brought out the same

00:19:28.140 playbook in the 2019 election, but made it much, much broader with the newspaper bailout because

00:19:33.820 Andrew Scheer, the conservative leader, was opposed to it. So all of a sudden, you know, you have

00:19:38.480 journalists covering an election where their jobs could potentially be at stake. How could anyone be

00:19:43.820 fair in that scenario? How could you provide fair coverage? And then now we're in a situation where

00:19:48.800 they're all on essentially the government dole. I mean, to me, it's wild. It's such a conflict of

00:19:54.200 interest. There is no free press in Canada when you have the government this entangled in it. I mean,

00:20:00.260 Andrew, you've worked in newsrooms, you've worked in legacy media in the past. Why is it that so many

00:20:06.760 journalists are just sort of complacent and they barely cover this and they don't seem to think it's

00:20:11.220 a big deal? They're allowing a government takeover of the free press in this country.

00:20:15.880 Yeah. And I think a lot of them are, I mean, there are good people I've worked with in mainstream

00:20:21.760 media newsrooms that I think know, well, I'm not affected by this. I'm not going to subsidize. I'm

00:20:28.060 not going to, you know, write favorably about the government because they've done this. So they don't

00:20:31.600 see the broader implication. I mean, in every other space, the illusion of a conflict of interest is

00:20:35.860 just as dangerous as a genuine conflict of interest. And I think there's a challenge in how the

00:20:41.540 newsrooms themselves are. I mean, when the National News Media Council or whatever it's called has

00:20:46.200 advocated for this, they have had coordinated campaigns for the front pages, literally the front

00:20:51.320 pages of all mainstream media newspapers are instead a letter to the government saying, do this,

00:20:57.700 implement this policy. And again, if you were to have to go back to our previous exchange about

00:21:03.460 a party wanting to roll that back, if you were to have a party in, let's say, 2025 or 2029 or

00:21:10.040 whatever, saying we're campaigning on rolling this back. Well, how are those newspapers going to

00:21:14.640 respond during the election? Is there going to be a big letter on the front page of newspapers telling

00:21:20.600 people why this policy is wrong? So the newspapers themselves have become the advocates, even if the

00:21:27.560 individual journalists aren't. And that can't not filter down to the coverage that people are reading.

00:21:33.880 Well, that's why I find it so funny and amusing that they would call us, you know, activists and they

00:21:38.500 would say that we engage in advocacy when they literally, you know, they're pushing for specific

00:21:43.780 legislation. True North would never do that kind of stuff. And for sure, I mean, who knows what kinds

00:21:49.260 of stories are buried or killed or, or what, you know, I mean, just as an example, it was a US

00:21:56.400 publication, Time Magazine, that first reported that Justin Trudeau was wearing blackface. And almost

00:22:00.560 immediately, a bunch of Canadian outlets put out follow up stories that they had other pictures. So they

00:22:05.460 were just holding, it was like the middle of an election. I think it was CTV and maybe the Global

00:22:09.360 Mail or something. Global had another one that they had not done anything with. Global. Yeah,

00:22:14.140 they were, and they were just holding it. And so it's like, okay, well, we might as well release this

00:22:17.320 now. It's almost like, what else do you have that you're not reporting? Because for whatever reason,

00:22:23.320 you've justified to yourself that it's not in the public interest. Again, I think we're, we're heading

00:22:27.700 down a pretty, I mean, we're already there. We're already in this weird dystopian world where

00:22:32.080 independent journalists are deemed to be activists, like the rebel, like True North.

00:22:38.120 Whereas the actual legacy media outlets are doing advocacy, successfully lobbying the government,

00:22:43.940 getting money from it. And then they create this club where they lock themselves out. So I guess,

00:22:48.980 final question here, Andrew, what does this mean for outlets like True North? What does this mean for

00:22:53.540 organizations like the Independent Press Gallery?

00:22:56.440 I think it means, well, I mean, for the Independent Press Gallery, I think it means there needs to be a

00:23:00.880 counterbalance to this. And I've always been very, very impressed, not just as a counterbalance to the

00:23:05.940 Parliamentary Press Gallery, but even to the National News Media Council and to these institutions that are

00:23:10.940 advocating for more of a relationship between government and the press and more of a financial

00:23:16.440 relationship. And I think for outlets like True North, it means that we have to be able to just continue

00:23:22.440 doing what we're doing. I mean, what government is trying to do is, as you mentioned earlier,

00:23:26.700 Candice, manipulate the market. They're trying to create a business model to keep these things going, 1.00

00:23:32.120 but they're only doing that because these outlets are in a very bad place otherwise. And I think the

00:23:37.900 fact that we are growing and hiring an independent journalist, I mean, the Western Standard has been

00:23:42.000 on a hiring spree in the last couple of months. And while they are a competitor in some way, I'm

00:23:46.880 actually quite pleased to see growth in independent media in general. So I think eventually it may take

00:23:52.420 some time, but the audience is going to have the final say on this. Well, you're right. And the

00:23:56.720 idea that during an election, you know, if the Conservative leader comes out and says, we're not

00:24:01.460 going to renew this, and all of a sudden you have front page ads in newspapers, I just think that that

00:24:06.340 further drives people away from legacy media. It'll drive people to independent media because it's like,

00:24:11.040 how can you trust these guys? They're not even pretending to be objective anymore. Well,

00:24:16.100 Andrew, I always appreciate your perspective and your opinion. Thank you so much for joining the show.

00:24:19.860 Thank you. All right. That's Andrew Lawton, host of the Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.

00:24:24.920 I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is the Candice Malcolm Show.

The Candice Malcolm Show - May 02, 2022

Trudeau wants to decide what you see on the news

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript