TWO-TIERED Justice： Constitutional Lawyer weighs in on the fate of Freedom Convoy organizers
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Summary
On this day in Canadian history, Tamara Lynch and Chris Barber, two Freedom Convoy organizers, stand trial for their role in the 2011 uprising against Canadian government restrictions on freedom and democracy. Today, we re going to find out the fate of these two heroes.
Transcript
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Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm and this is The Candice Malcolm Show. Folks, we have a great episode for
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you today. We have John Carpe, constitutional lawyer, joining the program a little later on,
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and we are going to talk about this day in Canadian history. This is an important day,
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folks. We are going to find out the fate of Freedom Convoy organizers Tamara Lynch and Chris
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Barber. And so we're going to do a little bit of a flashback and look back at what exactly happened
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in January and February of 2022, the Freedom Convoy, the uprising against COVID tyranny,
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because that was what was happening in our country. We'll talk about how the legacy media
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painted them in Justin Trudeau's image. Justin Trudeau's narrative was that these were
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insurrectionists, these were racists, these were bad people, small French minority with unacceptable
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views, and that they had to be stopped at all costs. And so he did. He used legacy media to
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completely tarnage their image, to call them the most awful names in the book, and then to use all
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of the powers of the state in the Emergencies Act to crack down on these peaceful protesters.
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And now here we are three and a half years later, folks, and we are still fighting this battle. The
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two brave Freedom Convoy organizers are still standing trial in what I believe is a witch hunt
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and a political prosecution. And it's really interesting because how you view Tamara Litch and
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Chris Barber, it's one of the most polarizing things that I've ever seen in Canadian politics.
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And it's still a litmus test today for many liberals and people on the political left, right?
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If you see the Freedom Convoy as a bunch of no-good insurrectionists, sedition, as Mark Carney famously
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called it, in the Globe and Mail, filled with racists and far-right radicals and funded by
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mega-Republicans, it's probably because you've been watching the legacy media, you've been viewing
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through the lens of the CBC. And the rest of the country, the way that we saw, the way that I saw it,
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was an inspiring, patriotic, heart-warming uprising of Canadians, blue-collar Canadians, Canadians from all
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backgrounds, just saying enough is enough. We want our lives back. We don't want to live under COVID
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tyranny anymore. We don't, the mandates don't make any sense. The vaccine mandates, the idea that you
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have to get vaccinated, it doesn't work the way that they said it was going to work, okay? And so that is why
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I talked about this on social media, but this is the way I see it. COVID-19 was a story of mass hysteria.
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It was a moral panic. It was a story of propaganda and textbook government overreach, okay? The story of
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Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his ultimate demise. He was a story of an incompetent ruler who
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was exposed for being incompetent. The story of the Canadian truckers is the story of a peaceful,
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blue-collar uprising against what had become a tyrannical regime. And their story of their
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prosecution remains. It's a story of Canada's broken justice system, two tiers, and Canada's
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Laurentian elites tragically misguided priorities. And yes, I do believe that Tamara Lynch and Chris
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Barber are political prisoners. They're guilty of opposing this overreach, of exposing our foolish
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prime minister at the time, of leading a peaceful protest against tyranny, heroically standing up to
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the powers that be, representing millions of Canadians, and just simply being on the wrong side
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of the Laurentian elites. There's no doubt, folks, that the Freedom Convoy marked a change.
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It was an inflection point in the dark era of COVID. It showed that enough people were opposed
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to the entire regime, and that it didn't make sense, and that the science wasn't standing up
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any longer. And it was the beginning of the end of the COVID restrictions, and the beginning of the end
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of the Trudeau government. And so that is why these people are heroes. And today is another important
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turning point for our country. We're going to find out later today whether petty tyranny will prevail,
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and whether these political prisoners will actually be thrown in prison for possibly seven or eight
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years, or whether Canada will arc back towards justice. I said yesterday on the show that I'm
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still optimistic for the future of Canada. I got a little bit of pushback on the comments and in
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social media. I don't think Canada is heading in the right direction. I don't think that Canada is on the
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right path. I don't think that we have the right leadership in Ottawa. But the reason why I'm still
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hopeful for our country is because of things like the Freedom Convoy, because of the truckers,
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because of people like Tamara Litch and Chris Barber, who are standing up to tyranny. It gives
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me hope for a country that there are still good people out there, that I think the majority of
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the country is still on the right side deep down, whether they're the silent majority or whether
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they are the actual activists in the streets. And so I want to just do a little bit of a flashback
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to our coverage at True North. I think that we caught on with a lot of Canadians. We really grew our
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audience during this time. And I want to show you how we were reporting it at the time myself,
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as well as my colleague Andrew Lawton, who has since gone on to become an elected member of
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Parliament for the Conservatives. At the time, he was reporting on the ground in the Freedom Convoy.
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So we have that montage for you here. The trucker convoy was a huge success by every measure. It was one
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of the strongest movements of patriotism and national unity in recent memory in this country.
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Meanwhile, the legacy media outed themselves as being aggressively partisan, openly deceitful.
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The Freedom Convoy is mainstream, and it is uniting Canadians regardless of what Justin Trudeau
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or his cheerleaders in the legacy media have to say about it. He says that you are a small
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fringe minority, hardly even worth his time. He thinks that you are a nobody. He thinks that
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you're minuscule. He thinks that you are unimportant. Somebody who doesn't even deserve
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the basic charter rights supposedly guaranteed to all people in the country. What an amazing,
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spectacular weekend. It was one of those things that you just, I was glued to my computer screen,
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glued to the television all weekend long. I couldn't get enough of these beautiful,
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beautiful images of Canadians coming together. It was celebratory. It was happy. The mood on the
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ground, as reported by True North journalists who were there, as reported by the thousands of people
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who became independent journalists by attending the rally, by posting their own images and videos,
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We are on Parliament Hill in downtown Ottawa in front of Centre Block for the Truckers for Freedom
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Convoy. It hasn't even started yet, and this place is packed. We've got trucks lining Wellington
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Street. We'll show those in just a moment. We've got people from all over the country here,
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and the message is a very simple one. It's not about violence. It's not about white supremacy.
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It's not about extremism. Well, I mean, if you watch the CBC or listen to Justin Trudeau, it is.
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No, it's about freedom. It's a very simple message. It's a very unifying message,
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and it's one that the people here are making sure is known.
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So that was our view. That was our take at the time. It was optimistic. It was happy. Andrew Lawton
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was jovial, even just reporting. It was like a breath of fresh air and light at the end of a dark
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tunnel from COVID. But again, that was our perspective. That was how we saw things and how we were
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reporting it. But there was a whole other side of the country, a whole other side of Canadians that
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did not see it that way, that took their cues from the CBC and from Justin Trudeau. And because of
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that, they still to this day believe that the truckers and the Freedom Convoy was really just
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about a violent uprising, about hatred, about being racist and white supremacist. So apologies for doing
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this, but here is what our prime minister at the time, I always do a trigger warning when I'm showing
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videos of Justin Trudeau. But here's our prime minister at the time saying, no, no, no, this
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isn't a happy uprising. These people are unacceptable. Here, let's play that clip.
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The small fringe minority of people who are on their way to Ottawa or who are holding unacceptable
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views that they're expressing do not represent the views of Canadians.
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Yes, actually, they do represent the views of Canadians. And it turns out that it was just,
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I mean, those are maybe perhaps some of the most infamous words from prime minister Justin Trudeau,
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that they are a small fringe minority holding unacceptable views. And so that's sort of when
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things started to turn dark. We had the emergencies power unleashed. This was from the day, February 18th,
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so a couple of weeks later, when the protest was trampled by the Emergencies Act, police state
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Oh, come on through. Come on through. What is happening here? Wow. What is this lady doing?
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Trampling. Trampling horses. Trampling. Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. What? Oh my God.
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They just trampled this lady. They just trampled that lady.
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And then, of course, Andrew Lawton of True North was pepper sprayed, sprayed in the face by police
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for the crime of just standing there. That was moments after that trampling happened,
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when the police were just given the order to do what they could, do what they had to do to get
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people out, including spraying journalists, assaulting journalists, and just trying to break
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up the crowd. And so that is, that was sort of the end of the, of the protests. And thankfully,
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the mandates and the lockdowns and everything else ended shortly thereafter, but it didn't
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end for organizers. And so we know that Tamara Litch and Chris Barber have now been on trial
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for 688 days. They were first arrested over 1,200 days ago. It doesn't typically happen in Canada.
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Oftentimes, people are dismissed from crimes because of delays in court. Well, this trial itself
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has been conducted over 45 days. And it's worth noting that Litch and Barber were found not guilty
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on most charges. So back in April 25, they were convicted of many, they were, they were charged with
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many things. Most of them, they were found not guilty. The only thing that they were convicted of
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was mischief, mischief. And so the, today we will learn what the actual court order will be and
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what the sentences will be. And to talk about all of this, I'm very pleased today to be joined by our
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friend, John Carpe. John is a constitutional lawyer, president of the Justice Centre for
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Constitutional Freedoms. The Justice Centre has provided legal support and funding for Freedom
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Convoy protesters and organizers, including Chris Barber and Tamara Lynch. And of course,
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they successfully challenged the Emergencies Act in federal court, which ruled in January 2024
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that yes, that did violate Canada's charter rights. So John, welcome to the podcast.
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So help us understand what is happening today. Um, and, uh, what, what, what do you expect
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So Wednesday, July 23rd, Thursday, July 24th, two days of oral argument by the crown calling
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for a seven year jail term for Tamera Leach and eight years for Chris Barber and, uh, lawyers
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for Chris Barber and Tamera Leach are also arguing on sentence. My, my understanding is that, um,
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um, the lawyer for, um, are arguing for an absolute discharge, meaning no penalty, um, taking into
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account the Tamera Leach has already spent 49 days in jail. Um, so the decision will likely
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be rendered next week, the week of July the 28th or in August. Um, we're, we're not anticipating
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And so, I mean, maybe help us understand because, I mean, if you're listening to legacy media
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and Justin Trudeau and CBC, I mean, they call this an uprising. They call this an insurrection.
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I mean, they call it sedition. Uh, but the charge of mischief, I mean, that almost seems like
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something that, you know, a teenager who's caught trespassing and up to no good. I mean,
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I walked down the streets in Toronto or Ottawa, I see all kinds of mischief on a daily basis,
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right? People using drugs, people's petty thief, people actually committing crimes. I mean,
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there's violent crimes in this country. There, there's a whole litany of issues in our country.
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And yet this court case is dragging on and, and the charge of mischief. Can you, can you tell us
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like how common is that for something like this?
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So mischief has several, there's different, there's different crimes of mischief that are set
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out in, in section four, four 30 of the criminal code. One of them is property damage,
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vandalism. So if somebody keys your car or spray paints a wall, that's mischief. It's also the
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unlawful interference with the use and enjoyment of property. So for example, if you are walking
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down the sidewalk and I get in your way and obstruct you, that's mischief because you lawfully can walk
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down the sidewalk, or if you're trying to get into or out of your house, uh, physical obstruction
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that prevents people from doing what they have a legal right to do is mischief. And so I've,
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I've read the 105 page decision and, uh, you know, it's, it's debatable. We'll have to wait and see
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whether the verdict is going to be, uh, appealed, but the judge ruled that there was interference with,
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um, that, that some Ottawa residents, um, had interference with the lawful use and enjoyment
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of their own property because some of the streets were too clogged up or people had trouble, uh,
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driving their cars out, out of their apartment building, parkades, uh, people had trouble getting
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around. So there was a finding of guilt on the, uh, on the obstruction, uh, and encouraging that
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insofar as Tamara Leach and Chris Barber called on Canadians to come to Ottawa and to, to protest
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peacefully. But so that, that's a verdict that, that might be appealed. It's interesting because
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usually it's the left that's calling for civil disobedience and sort of peaceful protest. And yes,
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technically there are some rules that are broken if you're blocking traffic or something like that,
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but I'm sorry, from where I'm standing, we have seen environmental protests that block freeways,
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that block pipelines, that block people from getting to work. We've seen the same thing
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after the hoax regarding the unmarked graves where there were massive violent protests and the tearing
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down of statues that are symbolic of our country, uh, in the, in the aftermath. Well, I mean,
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since 2023, we have seen weekly or monthly, uh, Hamasnik protests where they, again, they shut down
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freeways. They, they intimidate, uh, school children going into synagogues. And I mean, we, we,
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we see very aggressive protests on the streets in Canada all the time, but usually that is happening
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for the pet issues of the far left. And they seem to be able to sort of get away with it.
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And yet here we had like a once in a blue moon, um, working class people, uh, not even politically
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active people. Like, I don't know if these people identify themselves as conservatives or not, but
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people just tired of government overreach when it came to COVID, which I think we all universally
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agree at this point that everybody overreacted a lot during COVID and the law of the rules and
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restrictions were nonsensical and counter to society. I mean, your own organization helped
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prove that the emergencies act was government overreach. And so we're all kind of in agreement
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of that now. And yet this case is dragging on. I think there's so many Canadians. We just see it
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as a total, uh, misuse of justice, uh, the wrong priorities. And it's kind of making mockery. We're
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saying that some people can get away with this kind of stuff if you have the right
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politics. Um, whereas other people, if you have the wrong politics, you're going to go to jail.
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Well, that's the biggest problem in Canada. It's the unequal application of the law.
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Uh, the most glaring example that comes to my mind was in July of 2021, when some
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Aboriginal protesters, uh, protesting against residential schools, they tore down, uh, and
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vandalized a statue of Queen Victoria, uh, that was on the grounds of the legislature.
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And in broad daylight, they tore down this statue. It's a good thing. It would have killed
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anybody that it landed on. Cause it's made out of, it was very heavy and, and they, they,
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they, they tore it down from a piece of marble that it was standing on. So nobody got hurt, but the,
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the police stood by and watched police were present and it is a crime to destroy other people's
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property. You can legally destroy your own property if you want to, but you cannot destroy somebody
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else's property or public property. And a few months later, the crown prosecutors in Manitoba
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announced that nobody would be prosecuted. No charges laid for obviously criminal conduct.
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Uh, we saw the same very soft approach to people in March of 2020. Um, a little bit before lockdowns
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were imposed, we had these people blockading railways and in the name of, um, Aboriginal rights in the
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name of the environment. And, uh, the prime minister Trudeau said he wanted to sit down and meet with them.
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Right. So it's, it's, it's all about the cause. And I think if the truckers, if the people in Ottawa,
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if they had been waving rainbow flags or Hamas flags, uh, instead of the rude anti-Trudeau flags,
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um, like the whole thing would have been, would have been different if, if it hadn't been against
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the vaccine mandates, I don't think that the federal cabinet would have met and decided prior
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to anybody setting foot in Ottawa without even knowing too much about what it was all about.
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This came out in the public order emergencies commission, the federal cabinet determined that
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they were going to, uh, paint the freedom convoy protesters as one or more of racist, white supremacist,
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neo-Nazi criminal, dangerous, violent. That was the narrative. And then it spun around in a vicious
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circle with the government funded media. So the politician would say that, that these, uh, the
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truckers were really dangerous and they were arsonists. And then the media would report on that.
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And then the politicians would comment on the media reports. So this just went back and forth in their own
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little bubble, uh, projecting this image, uh, which unfortunately, you know, for the Ottawa residents who were
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listening to government funded media, some of them were scared. They weren't scared, uh, based on
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reality of, of the protesters actually being violent or dangerous, but they were scared by the media
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coverage that, that completely misrepresented these Canadians. Well, it's so interesting that you say
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that because we were watching very closely. We had several reporters on the ground during the protests.
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And from what I saw, it was like, it was just so heartwarming. It was like a beautiful scene of like,
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you know, families, people bringing sandwiches, homemade signs, like the bouncy castles. I saw
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images of the men like cleaning the streets, sweeping the sidewalks, uh, scraping them so that
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people wouldn't slip and fall. It was a huge outpouring of just community love and support.
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And it was so strange to then like, you know, stumble upon left-wing Twitter or turn on the CBC.
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And it's like the thing that they were reporting on was so different than what we were seeing with our
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own eyes. It was like seeing the power of propaganda and your point that the cabinet,
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that this was all coordinated. This was all planned. I mean, I remember from the very beginning,
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John, um, when the first trucker convoy left British Columbia and the CBC had a report about
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how they were protesting against dangerous road conditions, like literally. And they found a couple
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of East Indian people they interviewed that, that actually, I guess, were protesting against dangerous
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road conditions, but they, they, they, they totally distorted the thing from the very beginning.
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And watching that unfold, it was like seeing a lesson in propaganda and how Canadians can so easily
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fall for probably. I, I think the Canadians are some of the most propagandized people in the world,
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but I want to tie this to, uh, the current political discussion because Pierre Polyev,
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leader of the Conservative Party, he voiced support for the truckers back in 2022. He took a lot of flack
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for it and he is still voicing his support courageously against, uh, the, the mischaracterizations
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and the media pushback. So this is what he wrote on X on Monday evening. He says, let's get this
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straight. While rampant, violent offenders are released hours after their most recent charges
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and antisemitic writers vandalize businesses, terrorize daycares and block traffic without
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consequence. The crown wants seven years prison time for the charges of mischief for leech and
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barber. How is this justice? So I'm curious, John, uh, to, to, to get your, your take, and then we'll get to
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some of the media criticism of Polyev. Uh, but, but what do you think about the way that Polyev has
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commented on this so far? Well, everybody is, is entitled to comment on judicial proceedings
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and that includes lawyers, non-lawyers. This is par for the course. This is a healthy part of the
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judicial system is, is that the public does comment on what's going on. It would be really interesting to
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see what jail sentences, uh, if even jail time that the crown was seeking in cases of other people
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blocking roads, because to block a highway, uh, and, and highway, uh, in, in the legislation includes
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city streets, right? It's not just a highway between two cities, but to, to, to block a highway is
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criminal conduct and you can be criminally charged for doing so. And it would be interesting to see
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other cases where highways were blocked as has, has happened certainly many times in, in Ontario and,
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and, and in other provinces as well, you know, where, where was the crown seeking seven or eight years
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for that? And I don't know the answer off the top of my head, but that would be, uh, something not
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that hard to find out actually, uh, to, to look up the, the case law on, on other cases of, um,
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obstructing a highway. That kind of thing. I mean, it happens all the time. And so,
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but Pierre's decision to, to, to jump in and continue to the fort, to support the truckers,
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he's obviously taking a political risk. And I want to read through some of the media reactions.
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So we had the CBC writing a piece, poly of conservative MPs criticized crown
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ahead of freedom convoy's leader sentences. The CBC interviewed Michael Spratt, an Ottawa-based
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defense lawyer who called the MPs decision to weigh on the pro, uh, pro sentences,
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craven politics. It's very dangerous for politicians to be weighing in on matters before the court,
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he said, and then basically just accused conservatives of trying to advance their
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political narrative. Uh, likewise, Tom Broadback in the Winnipeg free press, a columnist writes,
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Pierre Polyevs led Tories gearing up for more ballot box failure with support for convicted
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mischief ring leaders. And so it's really interesting to see the way that these newspapers,
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these media companies continue to paint the trucker convoy as again, this sort of like racist
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uprising, right. And that anyone who touches it is political poison. Andrew Coyne of the
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Globe and Mail and CBC, uh, writes this, he says, incredible. They have learned nothing. Um, again,
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criticizing, uh, Pierre Polyev for daring to voice support for the freedom convoy leaders. Next,
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we have national observer columnist, Max Fawcett on X. He said, this is the kind of thing you say
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when you're nervous about losing an internal conservative leadership vote. So they think that
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it's all just about, uh, drumming up support from the base and, and pandering, uh, Rachel Gilmour,
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who is a TikTok journalist wrote, Pierre Polyev comes out swinging dot to dot for the organizers of the
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freedom convoy. Good to know all the talk of a pivot was actually a pivot even further rightwards from his
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camp. And then finally you have Paul Wells, who is a very respected journalist. He runs a sub stack
00:23:36.500
and he just says noted noted as in we're watching you, Pierre, the Laurentian elite and the media
00:23:42.980
is noting that you are choosing to go on the other side. So Paul Wells is basically hinting that,
00:23:50.100
you know, there's good guys and bad guys and we in the lunchroom meet, we're the good guys. And this
00:23:53.860
is how we see the country. And Pierre continues to defiantly see the country the other way. And so
00:23:58.340
I thought it was like, sort of like just the perfect thing. Like the Laurentian elite are watching Pierre
00:24:03.380
and they're not happy with the fact that he is voicing concern. Um, what do you make of all this,
00:24:08.260
John? Well, part of the reason why it's okay for people to comment, uh, state their opinions about
00:24:17.940
judicial, uh, proceedings and, and they're public for a reason is that you have that, that transparency,
00:24:23.780
right. In a, in a healthy democracy, in, uh, the free and democratic society that Canada is supposed
00:24:29.540
to be, you don't have a secret trials because then their secrecy opens things up for abuse.
00:24:38.340
Right. So we have the, the open courts principle. Um, but part of the reason why it's okay for,
00:24:44.820
for all citizens, including elected politicians, including lawyers to comment on court cases is
00:24:50.180
because we expect judges to ignore public commentary. They might hear about it. They might even
00:24:55.940
deliberately seek it out, although it's probably not a good move, but they might hear about it,
00:25:00.980
but they're, they're looking at the evidence presented in court. And this is another very dark
00:25:04.980
aspect of the lockdowns era was, um, as we talked about this previously in regards to my book,
00:25:12.980
corrupted by fear. We have judgments where, uh, judges wrote the media narrative into their court
00:25:21.460
rulings and that make assertions there that, that they've heard on the CBC news or that they've read
00:25:27.380
on the internet that are just simply not supported by evidence that was put before the court. And so
00:25:32.180
judges took great liberties to, to, to write the media narrative into their court rulings, which prior to
00:25:38.580
2020, I think would have been very rare. I think that judges, whether it's a murder trial or family
00:25:45.540
law dispute or constitutional challenge, um, I think prior to 2020 Canadian judges would always ignore
00:25:52.420
what the media was saying and focus only on the evidence before the court. But we've, we've got so
00:25:57.300
many examples of judges, uh, that are simply writing the media narrative into their court ruling on these
00:26:04.260
lockdown challenges. I'm not saying it's a universal problem, uh, but, but on the constitutional challenges
00:26:10.180
to lockdowns as being unjustified violations of our charter freedoms of conscience, religion,
00:26:15.700
association, expression, et cetera. Uh, we, we've got too many examples of, of judges that are not
00:26:22.500
limiting, uh, themselves to what is placed, uh, before them in court. I had a question for you,
00:26:28.660
John, about the sort of jurisdiction, because I know that these are federal charges and everyone
00:26:33.380
thinks of this as sort of a liberal government, uh, Justin Trudeau continued into Mark Carney.
00:26:38.420
And yet it's interesting to learn, and Brian Lilly had a calm sort of, uh, alluding to this. Um, but
00:26:44.340
it's actually the Ford government and the government of Ontario that is overseeing and possibly pulling
00:26:49.700
the strings in this case. So I'm wondering if you could just help us understand the jurisdiction
00:26:53.300
breakdown and how Doug Ford could actually have maybe possibly stopped this or at least lessened some of
00:26:59.140
this. Well, it's the provinces who were in charge of administration of justice. And so in Ontario,
00:27:06.180
the crown prosecutors, even though they're prosecuting the criminal code offenses and the
00:27:12.020
criminal code is federal legislation, uh, but the prosecutors in, in Ontario and every other province,
00:27:18.260
they, they prosecute all offenses. I mean, you've got municipal bylaw infractions, you know, if you're,
00:27:23.460
if your dog's barking all night, keeping the neighbors awake and you get a ticket for that,
00:27:27.060
it'll be prosecuted by it. It's the province that pays for the prosecution service, uh,
00:27:32.980
traffic courts, speeding tickets, as well as criminal code offenses. And so the prosecutors are
00:27:39.940
supposed to be working at arms length from government. Uh, I, I, I hope that they are, I,
00:27:47.460
I assume that they are. So you don't have the premier or the justice minister. Uh, we saw this in the SNC
00:27:53.620
Lavalin case with the Trudeau government, right? It's not appropriate for the, uh, the prime minister
00:27:59.540
or, uh, any other cabinet minister to be directing prosecutions and saying, well, you know, go hard
00:28:06.820
on this guy, go easy on that guy. Oh, my cousin got charged with impaired driving. You know, can you just
00:28:11.700
turn a blind eye and let them get off? Cause he's a good guy. Like you don't want the politicians
00:28:16.420
directing the prosecutors. So this, uh, I guess I would say fanatical attitude towards, uh, using up
00:28:25.300
huge resources, uh, to prosecute Tamera Leach and Chris Barber, when the same crown prosecutors
00:28:31.220
complain publicly, they don't have enough resources to bring, uh, murder charges and, and aggravated
00:28:38.020
assault and sexual assault, get some people walking away scot-free without a trial. Crown prosecutors
00:28:43.940
say they don't have enough resources. So I would hope that it's still a bad thing. If the crown
00:28:51.060
itself is so obsessed with, uh, w w w with the freedom convoy, that would be a bad thing. It would
00:28:58.820
be even worse if it was directed, uh, and guided by the Ford government. I would like to believe that
00:29:04.900
it is not, and I certainly don't have any evidence to, to suggest that, that the crown is being directed
00:29:11.380
by Premier Ford. Well, I know we've gone over this a little bit, but there is obviously a double
00:29:15.220
standard in our justice system. When you just look at even just some of the recent news, John,
00:29:19.460
so we had Sam Cooper over the bureau reporting that charges have been dropped against a Chinese
00:29:23.940
scientist in Vancouver tied to Xi's talents program and Canada's synthetic drug pipeline. Uh,
00:29:29.940
no worries, no charges there. A man in Edmonton with a history of attacking people
00:29:34.500
was, uh, given seven years for random killing on an LRT. So he murdered someone he's getting seven
00:29:40.500
years, which is what Tamara and Chris might possibly get. Uh, next we had Juneau news reporting that a
00:29:46.820
judge has spared an Indian immigrant jail after trying to buy sex from a child from a minor, um,
00:29:53.300
because the judge didn't want that poor Indian immigrant to possibly have to get deported. So,
00:29:58.580
uh, they, they didn't give him, uh, jail time, right? A Quebec woman pleads guilty to joining ISIS
00:30:06.020
and they were just sentenced to one day in custody because, you know, uh, she, she, she was obviously
00:30:12.660
remorseful or whatever. Uh, we had an ex Belltech get mere house arrest after exposing himself to
00:30:19.540
customers. So, I mean, this is just like, I could, I could pull out a thousand examples for you, John,
00:30:25.780
of judges just going really easy on some people and then others, uh, uh, people like the freedom
00:30:32.900
convoy organizers going really hard. I don't expect you to make a prediction, but you watch these kinds
00:30:37.780
of stories carefully and closely. I wonder, uh, what do you think is going to happen? Do you think
00:30:42.500
that they will actually get jail time? And if so, uh, what, what do you expect the reaction to be from
00:30:47.300
the Canadian public? Well, I won't make any predictions. I mean, your guess is as good as mine,
00:30:53.220
you know, with some of the court cases over the years that I've been, uh, involved with or, you
00:30:59.060
know, or lawyer acting for clients in court, I, I have won cases that I should have lost and I have
00:31:04.900
lost cases that I should have won. And it's always, it's always a surprise. Um, you know, even the
00:31:10.900
guilty verdict, I mean, uh, would not have surprised me if there had been an acquittal. So without making
00:31:18.100
predictions, I will say if there's any jail time at all for, uh, Chris Barber or Tamara Leach or both,
00:31:25.380
then, uh, that's going to bring the administration of justice into further disrepute in the minds of
00:31:32.260
millions of Canadians. It's going to be seen as this, uh, double standard where other protesters,
00:31:39.860
if they're protesting for the right cause, a cause that, that the politicians like, uh, or that,
00:31:46.580
that the establishment likes, um, that double standard is, is just a glaring problem in, uh,
00:31:53.460
in Canada. So, but we'll have to wait and see what comes out. I, I really, yeah, no predictions.
00:31:59.540
Well, we will be following it very closely for you folks and we will give you an update when that comes
00:32:04.020
down. I want to change gears a little bit with you here, John, cause I know you're representing
00:32:07.540
a family and it's just absolutely extraordinary case. So Ontario teachers were just fired over their
00:32:13.300
personal values. The Alexander family were punished for standing by their beliefs. So we have Matt
00:32:20.580
and Nicole Alexander of Cobden, Ontario have dedicated over two decades of their lives to
00:32:26.660
supporting students in their community as educators in the Renfrew County District School Board.
00:32:31.140
They were basically fired or pushed out for just very innocuous, um, not adhering to extreme woke
00:32:40.500
ideology. John, can you tell us a little bit about their case and why you're representing them?
00:32:46.420
So Matt Alexander has been teacher for 20 years, spotless record. Uh, his wife, Nicole,
00:32:53.060
uh, was teaching kindergarten. She had been teaching for three years after taking time away from her
00:32:59.460
teaching career to raise her family at home. They both had great performance reviews and there,
00:33:07.140
nobody has alleged neither the school board nor any member of the public nor any parent nor any student,
00:33:15.140
nobody has alleged that Matt or Nicole Alexander, uh, has ever mistreated a student, treated a student
00:33:22.340
unkindly or unfairly, or has been discriminatory in, in their attitudes. Um, what happened one morning
00:33:31.220
was that, uh, Nicole came to work and she found a, uh, a pride, a rainbow pride poster, uh, that somebody
00:33:40.100
without her knowledge or consent had, uh, affixed to her door. And she noticed other doors, uh, nearby did
00:33:47.860
not have a pride poster and this was not some school policy or directive or edict. So she took down the
00:33:54.660
pride poster, put it in the cupboard and proceeded to go to work. And not long thereafter, she's called into
00:33:59.860
the principal's office and the superintendent of the school district is there. Uh, and, uh, she is
00:34:07.060
immediately suspended and she's later fired. Uh, her husband, Matt Alexander, who was teaching grades
00:34:14.020
seven and eight was, uh, phoned by the principal one day and told that he was suspended and under
00:34:19.780
investigation, uh, because of complaints about his social media posts. He did not have a social media
00:34:25.620
account at the time when he received this phone call. So what it ultimately came down to, they were
00:34:30.900
fired because they were asked to, uh, celebrate and affirm LGBTQ issues. And so you've got these very
00:34:39.700
woke, uh, radical policies that are in place in, in, uh, just about every public school board in Canada,
00:34:46.980
as far as I know. And so these teachers, they're not, they're not mistreating anybody. They're not
00:34:53.620
doing anything wrong. Philosophically. Uh, they don't want to say that they want to celebrate and
00:35:01.300
affirm, you know, they don't want to wave the rainbow flag and they don't want to push that LGBTQ, uh,
00:35:07.940
narrative that is being pushed by so many government agencies and school boards on that basis, they were
00:35:16.100
fired, not for any actual misconduct, but basically they, they said, look, we're not enthusiastic about
00:35:22.660
pushing and promoting, celebrating, affirming this LGBTQ narrative. Uh, on that basis, they lost their
00:35:28.340
jobs and the, their, their union, the elementary teachers Federation of Ontario essentially in a nutshell
00:35:34.900
did nothing to help them or, or to defend them. It's unbelievable. I mean, I'm sorry, but she's a
00:35:41.540
kindergarten teacher that didn't want a gay pride poster on her door and nobody told her that she had to
00:35:46.420
have it up. So she quietly removed it. Like in, in, in what world is that a firing offense? How, how, how,
00:35:52.340
like, what about her freedom of conscience? And also their children, their four and five-year-old
00:35:57.060
children, why do they have to be propagandized into an ideology, like any ideology? I mean, this is,
00:36:03.380
this is just so outrageous, John. Um, so what, uh, what's, what's next, uh, for this family?
00:36:07.940
So the, and the union did not raise, uh, there's very strong arguments. There's strong legal arguments
00:36:14.820
on their side. They, they have their, uh, freedom of conscience and religion, their freedom of
00:36:19.700
expression. Freedom of expression includes being free from compelled speech where somebody is forcing
00:36:24.900
you or pressuring you to say something that you disagree with. Uh, the school boards are government
00:36:30.100
entities. So the charter does apply to the school boards. And so the union didn't raise the freedoms of
00:36:37.060
religion and conscience, uh, or arguments also under Ontario's human rights legislation. Um,
00:36:43.620
the employer has a legal obligation for reasonable accommodation. Uh, so for example, somebody belongs
00:36:51.540
to a religion where they can't work on a Saturday, the employer has to accommodate that employee and not
00:36:56.820
require them to work on a Saturday, right? As an example. So the union didn't raise these arguments and
00:37:03.220
claimed that the case was weak. They didn't push it forward to arbitration. Uh, when asked why the
00:37:10.740
union felt that they thought that the case was, was weak and doomed to failure and not worth pursuing
00:37:15.700
to arbitration, the union provided no explanation other than saying, uh, well, we've given it a careful
00:37:22.340
review. So what's happening now are two things. Uh, human rights complaints have been filed on behalf of
00:37:27.300
the Alexanders against the school board for, uh, discrimination, uh, against their, uh, religion
00:37:33.940
and, and creed and further, uh, legal proceedings have been commenced before the Ontario labor relations
00:37:42.180
board to, or labor relations tribunal, I forget which to, to, um, take the union to task for its failure
00:37:49.780
to provide effective representation. Well, I'm very happy and pleased to hear that you
00:37:56.020
are fighting on behalf of this family. It is so outrageous the way that people are treated in
00:38:00.900
fields across the country. We had Amy Eileen Han on yesterday who was fired as a nurse because she
00:38:06.500
didn't want to promote this ideology. It's happening to teachers in Ontario, nurses in British Columbia,
00:38:10.900
it's happening all over the country. And John, we thank you, uh, for standing up for these types of
00:38:15.940
people and, uh, giving them a fighting chance. Uh, that's John Carpe of the justice center for
00:38:21.220
constitutional freedoms. Thank you so much, John, for joining us. Thank you. All right, folks,
00:38:25.620
all the time we have for today. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Candace Malcolm. This is
00:38:28.260
the Candace Malcolm Show. Thank you and God bless.