00:01:27.000He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:01:33.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:02:10.000So for over 100 years, they've said, we're just going to let the parents pick any public, any private school, put their kids there, and we'll use the state tuition amount, and they can just carry it to whichever one.
00:02:23.000Until a few decades ago, they decided, you know, we're going to change that.
00:02:26.000And we're just going to say, you can pick any school you want as long as it's not a religious school.
00:03:01.000The answer is, well, if we had white supremacist schools or CRT schools, I think our legislature would create a new law to take care of this.
00:03:09.000But the point is, under this law, the only people that get discriminated against are the parents who want to choose the school that's best for their kids, and it's a religious school.
00:03:19.000And I mean, we had clients, farmers, didn't have the money, and they were being robbed of the ability to.
00:03:54.000And you just take your little, and you can apply there, and it discriminates there on the basis of sex, does all these things that public schools can't do.
00:05:13.000They said, no, we're going to discriminate against you because that school.
00:05:17.000And the way they did it is they said, if you taught everything that the public school wanted you to teach, but you added one class on religion, you're out.
00:05:26.000And this is all religious schools, basically?
00:06:35.000And what this will mean is, if we win, and I do think we're going to win probably late June, along with the abortion decision, this will be another one of the controversial decisions.
00:06:45.000But if we win, it'll mean that from now on, when you have a school choice program, you can't exclude religious schools.
00:06:54.000You think about all the areas now where you can't, where there are no choices like that.
00:06:58.000They're going to come into existence because people who now, as parents, wanted to pick those types of schools, they'll come together and form those types of schools.
00:07:08.000So it'll make a huge difference in a lot of people's lives from here going forward.
00:07:12.000So not everyone gets to argue in front of the Supreme Court.
00:08:27.000And then you go into that lawyer's lounge where you're waiting, and then they eventually let you out into the courtroom.
00:08:34.000And for me, and I told our guy who was with me this time, Michael Bendis, a good guy with Institute for Justice, I said, this is the most nervous I was where you're standing right now.
00:09:39.000No, but the thing that you don't realize is the justices have had all these briefs and all this stuff and they've all got four of the smartest young attorneys in the country clerking for them.
00:09:50.000But they have not talked to each other.
00:09:53.000The first time they do is when the oral argument occurs, they're talking through you.
00:09:58.000So but when do they, so when they're having lunch or whatever, they're not talking about the case?
00:10:01.000They throw an argument at you because they're actually trying to speak to other justices.
00:10:07.000So are there people in the gallery while you're doing this?
00:10:09.000Normally, this last week, because of COVID, no one allowed justices.
00:10:13.000And it's not broadcast, though, but it's audio cast.
00:10:16.000It was, in fact, if people want to listen to it, we've got the audio where they can listen to the actual argument that occurred at firstlibertylive.com.
00:10:25.000We have the argument so they can listen and hear the questions.
00:10:28.000And what they'll realize, what a lot of people said to me is, I had no idea how intense and how hostile it was.
00:10:34.000I said, yeah, this is not, these are not, you know, friendly questions.
00:11:48.000One of the arguments that the Biden administration was trying to make is, well, you have a right to the free exercise of your religion, but you don't have a right for the government to provide you money to do it.
00:11:59.000But Clarence Thomas probably said, it's not the government's money, though.
00:12:01.000Well, and he said, isn't this a compulsory attendance?
00:12:07.000So the state is forcing them into a school, and then they're saying, but we're not going to allow you to choose the Christian school.
00:12:14.000He said, how is it a subsidy when you're forcing them to do it?
00:12:18.000But the facts and circumstances probably played into your hand because of Maine not having other public options.
00:12:24.000Somewhat, but I think it had been the same either way.
00:12:27.000I mean, I think the idea that if you create a, you don't have to create a program.
00:12:33.000Maine, if they wanted to just create public schools and have everybody go to public schools, fine.
00:12:38.000But when you create a program that says we're going to let parents choose, you can't at that point start discriminating because really it's no different than, let's say, let's take the college university.
00:12:50.000We're going to allow the student groups to use our facilities.
00:12:53.000But then as soon as the religious student groups apply, they say no.
00:13:17.000Him asking them, so the white supremacist school is okay and the CRT school is okay, but not the religious school.
00:13:23.000But my other favorite, he said, what if my religion, my religious school, was that what their beliefs were were tolerance and American values like, and he went through these sort of American values.
00:13:36.000And the response from the attorney for Maine was, well, that's real close to what the public school teaches, so that would be okay.
00:13:42.000Alito responded by saying, what I just described to you was the Unitarian religion, which he had just said, certain religions are in and certain are out, which that's a very bad thing for them.
00:13:56.000So I think the way the argument went, it showed, of course, Kagan, Breyer, Sodomayor, the liberals in the court were very much against this.
00:14:29.000You know, strife is when you discriminate against people, which is what you're doing.
00:14:33.000And there's some guy in Augusta, Maine, who's looking at your curriculum and how you're teaching and deciding whether you're really religious or not.
00:14:43.000Because there were schools that they said, well, we're not sure.
00:15:08.000And they said, well, no, you're, you know, so you've got this bureaucrat sitting in Maine deciding whether you're too religious or not, which is in and of itself problematic.
00:15:16.000This could have national ramifications.
00:16:59.000If they want to follow the law and see if they can accommodate, but they're just flaunting it.
00:17:04.000They've acknowledged that they have granted no exemptions over the past few years for religious accommodation, despite the fact the law requires it.
00:17:14.000It's really just kind of an arrogance and an abusiveness that they think they can get away with.
00:17:35.000I hope we'll get a decision by the end of the year.
00:17:37.000And I hope that by the end of the year, we will have an injunction against the Department of Defense that not only protects these 35 CEOs, these, I mean, think of the idea of throwing these guys out of the military.
00:18:05.000They have all kinds of issues that they've suffered for us.
00:18:08.000So, but not only will this, if we get the injunction, not only will it do a great thing for them, the 35 of them, but it will really impact all these other people who are right now being bullied.
00:18:20.000They're being told they're going to be dishonorably discharged.
00:18:23.000They've been told they're going to lose their pension.
00:18:25.000Like example, our lawyer on staff, top military lawyer in the country, Mike Berry.
00:18:32.000Mike has been told, he's in three years, his pension best.
00:19:05.000So what other cases are you guys working through?
00:19:07.000Probably one of the biggest ones that's sitting at the Supreme Court right now or waiting to decide if they take or not is the Coach Kennedy case.
00:19:19.000He was a Marine for 20 years, saw this movie, Facing the Giants, before he went to work, which is about Christians and coaching.
00:19:26.000And it just convicted him that after every game, I'm going to go to the center of the field by myself, say a 20-second silent prayer, and just thank God for the privilege of coaching these young men.
00:19:36.000And that's what he did for seven years until they came to him and said, if you go to a knee again, we're going to fire you.
00:19:43.000And he's a Marine, and he's like, what kind of example am I going to be for these kids?
00:20:32.000Not only did they say, yes, we're not going to allow coaches to pray in public, but the guy who wrote the majority opinion for the liberals, and by the way, there were 11 dissents.
00:20:42.000So we had a lot of judges on our side.
00:20:46.000He ended the opinion by saying that his religion, the judge's religion, was that you shouldn't pray in public.
00:20:53.000And then he castigated Coach Kennedy for doing so.
00:21:05.000So his religion was not a religion or something?
00:21:08.000His, yeah, that Coach Kennedy was doing wrong.
00:21:10.000The two things that I thought were so incredible that were added to already what was going on was that, was that, well, you really should pray in public if you're a religious person and then trying to put his religious beliefs on Coach Kennedy.
00:21:22.000But the other was they said that Coach Kennedy was, quote, pugilistic, meaning a fighter, that somehow it's inappropriate when you're fired to bring a lawsuit because that shows you're kind of a troublemaker.
00:21:37.000So I'm sure our founders are so enlightened that if you actually assert your constitutional right Luther King, you should somehow have them taken away if you assert that.
00:22:11.000The Americans United for Separation of Church and State, a left-wing atheist organization to represent the school district against Coach Kennedy.
00:23:20.000He was out of the country when they were writing the First Amendment.
00:23:23.000Enjoying wine and doing all sorts of things.
00:23:25.000So it was just something they threw out there, but it became what they used to really create a hostility to religion by the government.
00:23:34.000So our whole lives, we've seen attacks on nativity scenes that have a menorah before Hanukkah, A Ten Commandments monument, a religious symbol.
00:24:22.000It was originally American Legion property, but because they built roads around it, the state of Maryland took over the land just for safety.
00:24:29.000And then they said we have to tear it down.
00:24:31.000And they're like, we don't tear down veterans' memorials.
00:24:34.000I mean, if we're going to do this, we're going to have to go in the tomb of the unknown soldiers and erase known but to God off the tomb.
00:24:41.000We're going to have to take down all kinds of crosses.
00:25:21.000That was two years ago, two years ago, June.
00:25:23.000So it has, so is Lemon now in question?
00:25:27.000All the lower courts say, quote, Lemon is dead because of this opinion.
00:25:31.000And it's changing all the presumptions in the lower court decisions.
00:25:35.000I'm seeing a theme here, which is the court reconsidering Roe versus Wade, court reconsidering Lemon.
00:25:40.000There were some super radical decisions made by a bunch of postmodern, secular, progressive, John Dewey types in the 60s and 70s that are now getting a fresh constitutional look.
00:26:08.000When you put originalists in there, and look, you might disagree with a lot of their opinions, but this is the first time in 80 years we've had a majority of justices who think their job is to look to the original meaning of the text.
00:28:39.000And now, as the country has become a little bit more liberal or left-wing, and I think that's undeniable versus the culture of the 60s and 70s, the court has become more conservative.
00:28:55.000And for years of my life, the Republican approach was pick somebody without a track record so they won't see how conservative they really are.
00:29:04.000Bork kind of freaked a lot of people out, right?
00:29:07.000Because Bork, first time he had the televised hearings of it, I think that it was Reagan that appointed Bork, right?
00:30:20.000We have a lot of younger listeners that aren't.
00:30:22.000I encourage all of you to research and watch the documentary on Clarence Thomas.
00:30:27.000If you want to talk about cancel culture, Me Too, before, I'm very critical of George H.W. Bush, but he deserves credit for standing by Clarence Thomas.
00:30:48.000And so as a result of that, though, with Bork, the Republicans' lesson that they learned was pick people that don't have a really clear record that we know are conservative.
00:32:16.000And it's simply because the justices are going back to the words in the Constitution.
00:32:21.000And the founders built this country on religious freedom.
00:32:25.000So that in this time of darkness and attack on religion and attack on basic principles of right and wrong, it's so odd that at the same time, it's going to be a time of some of the greatest religious freedom we've seen.
00:32:39.000And it's just the, and I do want to give credit, the conservative movement did do a good job of holding the line and focusing on judges.
00:32:48.000Not the only thing, but it's very important.
00:32:49.000Let me ask you about Roe versus Wade as much as you can comment on this.
00:32:54.000So Roe v. Wade, a reckless, unconstitutional, corrupt, I think, drive-by shooting of the Constitution that happened, which set a precedent that abortion is legal, but it was never passed by Congress.
00:33:12.000Talk a little bit about that, kind of the unconstitutional nature of it, and what exactly is being now discussed in the Dobbs v. Mississippi.
00:33:23.000I think that's going to be a case that's as well known as Planned Parenthood v. Casey.
00:33:26.000So, because that's the second chapter of Roe versus what happened with Roe is really a misuse of our system.
00:33:33.000The way our system is supposed to work is that legislative or public policy issues are decided by the people through their representatives, the Congress, your state legislature, your federal legislature, your local officials.
00:33:48.000They decide the moral questions that the Constitution doesn't address.
00:33:52.000And if you don't like it, you throw them out of office and you change the law.
00:33:57.000But what happened in Roe is five justices essentially, or six, decided what our public policy was in a backroom.
00:35:19.000So the Dobbs case, and if people don't know what the Dobbs case is about, the Roe case just out of whole cloth, just out of nowhere, created a trimester system under the law for when the government could do.
00:35:33.000Before the technology was even that good, by the way.
00:36:45.000Do you think that's the most plausible or likely I think after the argument, what happens is, by the way, we didn't talk about this earlier.
00:36:54.000You have an argument on Wednesday, just like our argument was last Wednesday.
00:36:58.000Friday, they go into a room by themselves, the justices, and they.
00:37:10.000And then they share those things back and forth over the next month to convince people to change their vote.
00:37:14.000But they can change their vote, right?
00:37:16.000And all the way until probably the end of June, we'll get a decision.
00:37:20.000If you forced them to write a decision the day after the argument, I think it would have been five justices saying Roe v. Wade is overturned.
00:37:30.000Chief Justice Roberts saying, let's do it more subtly.
00:37:35.000And then the three saying abortion is abortion is great, right?
00:37:40.000But the question is, will Roberts, who's a very politically savvy guy, be able to convince somebody between now and June to join his more moderate way to do this?
00:37:52.000You mean pick off like Kavanaugh or Barrett or somebody?
00:38:46.000But when it comes to this, this is new.
00:38:50.000You haven't seen a lot of opinions here.
00:38:52.000But I think if you watched what was going on in the argument, Kavanaugh and Barrett are really strong.
00:38:58.000And if you'll remember, Kavanaugh made the point in the argument to say, hey, look, if we overrule Roe, all we're doing is being neutral by letting everybody else decide.
00:39:08.000Boy, is that a move of the Overton window, though?
00:39:10.000That's a big, I mean, that's a strong situation.
00:39:12.000To say that out loud as a Supreme Court justice, I mean, all of a sudden you have the National, you had Nate Rawl and Planned Parenthood and the reproductive.
00:39:19.000They said, how have we lost this over the last 50 years?
00:39:24.000For one Supreme Court justice to say that is a big deal, let alone that to become a majority.
00:39:31.000That goes to show the work you're doing, Kelly, and the conservative legal work has been one of the untold successes, I think, of the last 30 years.
00:39:41.000It hasn't obviously been enough, but without it, I don't know where we'd be.
00:39:45.000I would say what's really fun for me, I've been doing this for 32 years, and religious freedom, we're just at the beginning of a new renaissance, right?
00:41:00.000We have endless cases, so we can go on.
00:41:03.000The best thing they can do is just get the weekly update.
00:41:07.000That could be one of our insider updates.
00:41:09.000So firstliberty.org.org, and they can sign up there.
00:41:12.000And that way, when the SEALs case comes down, they can tell other people, because most people don't know about all these victories we're doing.
00:41:20.000So let's say right now we have a lot of people listening.
00:41:22.000Let's say that they are a Marine or they're working in the Army.
00:41:51.000So maybe the person watching this isn't that person, but I bet they know somebody.
00:41:56.000So just First Liberty has all those kinds of resources for people to let them know what their rights are because people aren't bold when they don't know their rights and they don't know we're winning.
00:42:06.000But when they see that, and that's why I would tell your folks, be the Paul or Paula Revere to like encourage other people to be bold, to speak out, to stand for our freedoms.
00:42:17.000Our cases will, I think, help people do that.