00:00:00.000Hey everybody, on this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show, we have a special, unique, and exclusive conversation with a brave liberal named James Lindsay.
00:00:11.000You are going to love his takedown of BLM Incorporated, critical race theory, and so much more.
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00:00:30.000If this conversation moves you in any way, you feel this conversation needs to be heard by more people, and you want to support us before the end of the year and our team here on the Charlie Kirk Show, go to charliekirk.com/slash support.
00:01:17.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:02:09.000I want to start here, which is who's actually the one that gets to decide who is the untouchable?
00:02:15.000Can you ever redeem yourself from that if you say something incorrect when you're young or if you happen to take a picture with someone that you know you shouldn't have?
00:02:24.000This entire idea of kind of being the moral referee of society has now impacted every single portion of our life, culturally, economically, politically.
00:03:19.000I made a bestseller list on every one of them but the New York Times.
00:03:22.000Sold three times as many as other on the on the list, but didn't make it.
00:03:26.000And the people who make those kinds of decisions, largely in media, but some kind of a revolving door there with politics as we're starting to find out more and more, those people, kind of that intellectual class, very, very fed by academia, which has been captured for 20, 40 years maybe, those people are making the decisions, the community guidelines, if you will, for who can talk and how they can talk, who can be friends and who they can be friends with.
00:03:54.000And they punish you with kind of social means because they can't use legal means.
00:05:12.000You know, when you have that level of brokenness and dysfunction, but I had already decided, it was very specifically when they were talking about packing the courts and when they were talking about, well, there was an article that came out that said, abolish the Constitution.
00:05:39.000So you can cram a bunch of that stuff in there in low-level appointments that nobody's paying attention to.
00:05:43.000So it's just absolutely, it was a no-brainer by that point.
00:05:47.000So I said it, and then I had to go on TV in like three countries to explain myself.
00:05:51.000And so what ends up happening is this kind of academic to media pipeline that exists.
00:05:56.000Where there's a credentialing kind of wall, where if you do not have the proper credentials from the right schools, all of a sudden you're considered to be completely incapable of even discussing these topics.
00:06:27.000Because if you say one wrong word, that's when they seize on you.
00:06:31.000You become the point of focus for maybe it's a day, maybe it's three days, maybe it's a week, maybe it's two weeks.
00:06:36.000And they do everything they can to make sure that your opinion is no longer going to be valid.
00:06:42.000But there's this pipeline through the institutions.
00:06:44.000It starts even now in kindergarten, all the way through our schooling, all the way through the, but the big one is in the credentialing one.
00:06:57.000You cannot become a teacher in this country without going through a leftist indoctrination, a woke indoctrination.
00:07:04.000They captured the critical pedagogists, that's the technical name, captured our teaching colleges by the early 1980s.
00:07:11.000It is not possible, therefore, to get a public sector job teaching in this country without going through a political indoctrination to get credentialed.
00:07:21.000So you have these pipelines of credentialing.
00:07:23.000And they do, the activists that are into this, they're cultural activists.
00:07:27.000They have a heavy-duty preference, a very strong preference to want to take over places where they get to train people, where they get to set community guidelines for people, where they get to busybody manage people.
00:07:37.000So they want to be middle managers and the hiring managers and things like that to control the flow of people and information where nobody else really wants those jobs.
00:07:47.000And they create pipelines that feed their own thing in, right?
00:08:24.000And so that's the long march taking place.
00:08:30.000They targeted education very vigorously.
00:08:32.000The universities made for a very soft target because they wanted to look progressive.
00:08:36.000This ideology, the woke ideology, which is just a new manifestation of kind of the underlying communist ideology, it plays upon certain things that academics are very susceptible to.
00:09:08.000It attaches to that in our willingness to hear the argument, John Stuart Mill to hear all sides of the argument from its best proponents and to articulate that back and forth and to give as much charity as possible.
00:09:21.000That's the vector that the virus gets in.
00:09:31.000They have an overwhelming fear of looking like they're the stupid person in the room.
00:09:36.000So the second somebody says, well, you don't even know the definition of systemic racism, all of a sudden you've got an academic on his heels.
00:09:43.000So they just, you know, you're doing that kind of thing.
00:10:35.000So you had these activists filling the universities and kind of especially humanities departments at first and some social science departments.
00:10:45.000And what they started doing was creating the ability to credential themselves and people like them to give themselves tenure to start building out of the English departments were born women's studies first, then gender studies, then all the different ethnic studies departments.
00:10:58.000And then that has blossomed now into this whole kind of monstrosity.
00:11:02.000And since they're all activists, they all want to change the culture in the academy.
00:11:06.000They understand what I talked about at the summit.
00:11:10.000They understand that politics is downstream from culture and that culture is downstream from education in the broadest possible sense, what you learn.
00:11:18.000So they started getting into the schools and they started credentialing themselves, making up their own fake academic disciplines and journals.
00:11:29.000I got into their academic journals, published papers about dog sex, got an award in academic excellence for publishing papers about dog sex in their journal.
00:11:57.000This is one of the greatest things that's ever happened in the history of Western civilization.
00:12:00.000It was technically mostly his idea, but I was actually the one who was in charge of making it happen.
00:12:06.000So we decided that the academic literature in these disciplines needed to be exposed for what it was, which is fraudulent.
00:12:16.000We needed to be able to show that these people are starting with their dumb conclusions, including in the dog sex paper, for example, including that it's acceptable to train men the way that you train dogs in order to combat rape, this rape culture that they talk about.
00:12:33.000You can start with the conclusion and get yourself there.
00:12:42.000So we started writing these fake academic papers, sometimes under fake names.
00:12:46.000We had one guy, professional bodybuilder, actually.
00:12:48.000He's this huge, stacked 70-year-old, like just ripped 70-year-old Richard Baldwin, who let us use his identity to write.
00:12:55.000So we wrote a fat bodybuilding paper where you get up on stage and present how fat you are instead, but it's not a competition because they're against competition.
00:13:03.000So we wrote 20 papers in the span of 10 months.
00:13:07.000We submitted them, and seven of them had been accepted.
00:13:10.000One about the dog sex won an award for excellence in scholarship.
00:13:14.000One of them was a rewrite of a chapter of Mein Kampf using intersectional feminism.
00:13:45.000So seven of those things got accepted, and then we still had seven more that were under consideration by the time the Wall Street Journal caught us.
00:13:52.000The dog sex paper was just too over the top.
00:13:54.000And so journalists started asking questions.
00:13:56.000And eventually, you know, the Wall Street Journal called.
00:13:58.000Why didn't they ask questions out of the people that were accepting the papers?
00:14:01.000Well, they did, kind of, but they were trying to dig into the story and find out what was going on.
00:14:07.000So as the putative author of the paper, I had the email address for this Helen Wilson PhD who doesn't exist.
00:14:14.000They emailed me and I got this email from the Wall Street Journal.
00:14:17.000And the journalist, I was like, oh, no, that's big.
00:14:20.000You know, I can deal with campus reform.
00:14:23.000I can kind of like, you know, get rid of them.
00:14:26.000I can't deal with the Wall Street Journal digging into it.
00:14:28.000They're going to do their due diligence properly.
00:14:31.000They had actually contacted the journal and started asking really hard questions like, did you vet the identity of this person?
00:14:37.000So I also that morning woke up to an email that said from the academic journal, you need to provide, you know, proof of identity that you are who you are.
00:15:02.000Well, it's, you know, we want to avoid that mature rating on your thing.
00:15:06.000So we had one of our papers was that straight men would be less transphobic if they practiced, say, by getting as the term of art is pegged.
00:15:17.000And that was an article that just came out the other day.
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00:18:24.000That was done in a paper that's been heavily challenged at this point that was published by these people.
00:18:29.000And so you even had President Obama stand up and repeat that as justification for the Dear Colleague Project, the expansion of Title IX.
00:18:37.000And it turns out to be a very bogus statistic.
00:18:42.000They were very expansive in their definition of rape.
00:18:45.000It included many things that nobody would consider rape, like just being, you know, having somebody like try to kiss somebody or grab them or even accidental stuff or even, you know, after the fact regret, relationship regret or whatever, all could fall into it.
00:19:01.000There were actual participants in the study who later found out that they were included in the one in four, one in five that it reported.
00:19:08.000And they're like, wait, I've, no, no, that never happened.
00:19:12.000And so this is when you hear somebody say, well, there's a study that says papers, there's academic papers that say our scholars have said this is who we're talking about.
00:20:04.000We're technically in the middle of a pandemic, and our medical journal is publishing crazy stuff that is based in critical race theory, which has no scientific basis whatsoever.
00:20:15.000It is a borderline, you know, religious, if you will, worldview in a very kind of twisted sense of religion, cult worldview.
00:20:24.000But there's no basis in science at all.
00:20:26.000In fact, it calls science a white supremacist construct to justify white power.
00:21:04.000And so that way they can keep the race narrative going, that there must be racial discrimination somehow.
00:21:09.000So now the ones that are doing well who aren't white are now white.
00:21:12.000Which is funny, by the way, because that's what they say is the problem, is that white is a political identification, that white people had the power to expand to include who they wanted.
00:21:22.000And now that's exactly what they're doing, is expanding it so that they can use...
00:21:28.000Everything they do is projection, Charlie.
00:22:06.000You have neo-Marxism or critical theory, which started in the 1920s.
00:22:11.000And then you have a different tradition that arose in France.
00:22:15.000It's called postmodernism that arose in the 1960s.
00:22:18.000And what happened is in the 1980s and going into the 1990s, they combined and became one thing.
00:22:23.000Jordan Peterson referred to it as postmodern neo-Marxism for a while, which is a mouthful, violating Carlin's laws of syllables and hyphens.
00:22:36.000And so critical race theory is one of these that has adopted the postmodern ideas about truth into its otherwise neo-Marxist or critical theory ideology.
00:22:51.000So critical race theory is a, just to keep it kind of simple, it is a view about race and racism that begins with the assumption that racism is the ordinary state of affairs in society.
00:23:04.000It explicitly says it is not an aberration.
00:23:08.000And the people who are qualified, they have a critical race consciousness to be able to find the racism that's ordinary in everything that happens are called critical race theorists.
00:23:19.000And they use critical race theory to do it.
00:23:21.000And so a simple articulation of that that came from Robin D'Angelo, I think first in 2012, is the question under critical race theory is no longer, did racism take place, but how did racism manifest in the situation?
00:23:36.000So here's a good example of how it thinks about the world.
00:24:15.000Or you realized that if you chose, you really wanted to choose the white person, but you knew if you did, you'd be thought of as racist.
00:24:21.000So you signaled by choosing the black person who you didn't really want to choose, racist.
00:24:25.000Or on the other hand, if you had chosen the white person instead, they'd say, oh, it's obvious.
00:24:29.000You think that black people are second-class citizens and have to wait, which was racist.
00:24:32.000So you can see it's a choose your own adventure kind of structure that always gets to the same place.
00:24:37.000Whatever you did was racist on the back end.
00:24:39.000This sets up a total grift where you can just accuse people of racism, get them to feel that guilt, get them, no matter what they did, all you have to do is have a little bit of creativity to figure out how it's racist, then twist the knife on them and then use that, whether it's for politics, whether that's for straight-up grift.
00:25:19.000So that's in a nutshell kind of how it operates, but it is an attempt to use this Marx's idea of conflict, that same structure we're going to pit the proletariat, the oppressed proletariat against the bourgeoisie, yeah, the capitalists who are elites.
00:25:37.000You're going to pit them against each other in societal conflict, except you take it out of producers and the workers and you shift it over to racially dominant and racially oppressed.
00:25:49.000It's the exact same architecture there.
00:25:53.000And I think it's really helpful if you help unpack how this is not a fringe ideology.
00:26:00.000So when I talk about this, the number one piece of response I receive is: okay, your summary is correct, but very few people are learning this.
00:26:17.000So as many of your viewers will know, the president, President Trump, issued an executive order in September removing certain tenets of critical race theory from being able to be taught in federal agencies and federal contractors as a part of their workplace training.
00:26:34.000And it cannot be taught as a matter of uncontested fact in anything that receives federal dollars in the education system.
00:26:40.000It can still be taught as an academic subject.
00:26:42.000You can still have diversity training.
00:26:44.000You can still have racial sensitivity training.
00:26:47.000It just pretends it's the only way to do that.
00:26:49.000Well, there was an article that came out just the other day in one of these major newspapers that said, one of the results of Trump's ban is that almost all diversity training has been canceled, which means basically everything has diversity training.
00:27:04.000Nearly all of it got canceled, which means nearly all of it must have contained critical race theory.
00:27:33.000They're forcing police now to take all kinds of unconscious bias training, which is bogus.
00:27:38.000All these kinds of race and diversity trainings rooted in critical race theory.
00:27:41.000Had a police officer send me a message very stressed out, and he said, we make split-second decisions that are life and death for us and for the people that we're serving and protecting.
00:27:50.000And you add a few microseconds to that, and somebody's dead.
00:27:54.000And now we have to, oh, well, is pulling the trigger in this emergency going to be a racist incident?
00:28:08.000Protecting my family is my number one priority, but I want to do it safely.
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00:30:23.000He came out and said Kanye is no longer black.
00:30:27.000And then over the summer, we got our explanation.
00:30:29.000Nicole Hannah Jones of the 1619 Project, the New York Times, explains that there's a difference between being racially black and politically black.
00:30:37.000And then mysteriously enough, she deleted that tweet, you know, with an screenshots everywhere, but she deleted that tweet within, you know, an hour or something very quickly because, whoops, you're not supposed to say that part.
00:30:53.000And they're after power, by the way, for themselves, and to tear down Western society so that they can have the power.
00:30:58.000I think that's a good segue to really where I want the positive part of this, which I know it sounds like, what's the positive part of this?
00:31:05.000Which is exactly kind of what on earth brought a liberal and a conservative, you know, a couple days before Christmas in Palm Beach, Florida, to talk about this is because this is such a, and I use this term intentionally, existential threat.
00:31:40.000And that's a deeper, we could totally have that conversation at a different time.
00:31:44.000But more pressingly is you have this really interesting theory that it's Protestant Christianity and people who are really, you know, from the Enlightenment that all of a sudden find themselves natural allies.
00:31:58.000One is that the Protestant thing breaking off from the Catholic thing, the Reformation, was a process of saying, no, we're not going to go through this gated institutional narrative, as Eric Weinstein would call it.
00:32:41.000But the point is, you believe in objective truth and you locate it in God.
00:32:46.000As an atheist, I would say that if I had to say I bow to a God, it's Spinoza's God.
00:32:50.000But Spinoza's God is the universe, not in some kind of hippie way, in a way that there is something all around me bigger than me that I can't understand.
00:33:00.000And I'm subject to that, whether I like it or not.
00:33:04.000And so there is an objective truth that is in that.
00:33:07.000And I have to set myself aside, just like Christians know, they have to set themselves.
00:33:32.000So as long as you understand me, they may be a different perspective on things, but nevertheless, we agree that objective truth exists and that the best ways to get at it are through things like Enlightenment rationalism, whether that's applied to exegesis, whether that's applied to the scientific method, neutral principles of law, constitutional law, equality theory under law.
00:34:01.000It's a bit dated, but Sandra Harding, a feminist theorist in the 80s, wrote, I think in the trying to remember the title of the book, it's something like the feminist problem with science or something like that.
00:34:14.000She wrote that Newton's Principia Mathematica was a rape manual.
00:34:18.000Yeah, so they're against the idea of objective truth entirely.
00:34:21.000That's why all summer I fought 2 plus 2 equals 4.
00:34:26.000I had to get that against people who were saying, you know, it can equal other things.
00:34:30.000And in particular, they doubled down into 2 plus 2 equals 5.
00:34:32.000The reason was somebody who's high up in the Department of Education in the state of Washington, one of these activists, got accused for her ethno-mathematics program.
00:34:41.000She's forcing into the schools all the way down to kindergarten again in the state of Washington that's being copied down the West Coast.
00:34:48.000She keeps getting accused of teaching 2 plus 2 equals 5.
00:34:52.000And her reaction to that wasn't to say, no, that's not what we're doing.
00:34:56.000Her reaction was, how can we turn this into a true statement?
00:35:00.000And the postmodern activists, the relativists, the subjectivists came to her defense, including Fields Medalist-winning mathematicians debasing themselves, saying that 2 plus 2 doesn't equal 4.
00:35:12.000Now, my PhDs in math, but I don't need a PhD in math to know 2 plus 2 equals 4, right?
00:36:10.000So that's why we have this alliance between people who have different faiths in our case, who have different politics, I'm sure, in some regards in our case.
00:36:19.000Certainly the person I was a year ago, very different politics.
00:36:24.000And there is this repolarization to people who believe in truth versus subjectivism.
00:36:29.000There's this repolarization between people who believe in freedom versus control.
00:36:34.000And there's a recalibration of putting together, putting aside any labels to say maybe we should confront big tech, woke ideology, and preserve the West.