The Charlie Kirk Show - A Moral and Spiritual Defense of President Trump with Theologian Wayne Grudem

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00:00:09.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:10.000 Happy Sunday.

00:00:10.000 Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, we have the amazing Wayne Grudem, legendary theologian.

00:00:16.000 He has written numerous books, including Politics According to the Bible, and he is a theologian supporting President Donald Trump.

00:00:26.000 You are going to love this conversation, especially in response to many other pastors that are not putting their name behind Donald Trump.

00:00:33.000 This is a legend of the theologian community that loves the Lord, loves the Bible, and he's supporting Donald Trump.

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00:01:19.000 Wayne Grudem is here, theologian for Trump.

00:01:22.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:01:24.000 Here we go.

00:01:25.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:01:27.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:01:29.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:01:32.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:01:36.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:01:37.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:38.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:01:46.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:01:55.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:57.000 Hey, everybody.

00:01:58.000 Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:02:00.000 I am just so honored and thrilled to be joined by a legend, Dr. Wayne Grudem, who's a theologian and is just one of the most clear thinkers in all of Christianity when it comes to every aspect of life, interpreting the Bible correctly.

00:02:17.000 But also, your book, Politics According to the Bible, is amazing.

00:02:22.000 You gave it to me, I think it was a year and a half ago or two years ago when we first met in Arizona.

00:02:27.000 I've learned so much from it and from your, I guess I could call it a Bible commentary.

00:02:32.000 Is that fair?

00:02:33.000 On politics and government.

00:02:34.000 I also gave one to President Trump.

00:02:37.000 Well, I hope he read it.

00:02:38.000 I hope so too.

00:02:39.000 I don't know.

00:02:41.000 So for some people in our audience that don't know you, you are a living legend in the Christian world, and you are really an authority figure in the modern era on the Bible, on the inerrancy of scripture, on understanding the harmonies of the scriptures, and also interpreting it, applying it to today's time.

00:03:04.000 I first became aware of you when you wrote a piece, and then I think you went back on it and then wrote again with Trump in 2016.

00:03:12.000 Am I misremembering that?

00:03:14.000 Yes, I wrote something called Why Voting for Donald Trump is a Morally Good Choice.

00:03:18.000 And then this Excess Hollywood material came out, and I said, I wrote a second piece saying I think he should withdraw because of what was in those tapes.

00:03:28.000 But after four or five days, I realized I was helping Hillary to win.

00:03:33.000 And so I wrote a third piece called, If you Don't Like Either Candidate, Vote for Trump's Policies.

00:03:38.000 And that's where I ended up, and that's where I am today.

00:03:40.000 Well, no, I wouldn't say I don't like either candidate.

00:03:43.000 I don't like Joe Biden as a candidate.

00:03:45.000 I do think President Trump is doing a fantastic job as president in spite of the incredible, unfair hostility of the press.

00:03:52.000 Absolutely.

00:03:54.000 And so let's start to unpack this.

00:03:56.000 We get a lot of emails from young Christians across the country that listen to our political commentary.

00:04:02.000 And we do talk about Christianity every so often on this podcast, and we have pastors.

00:04:09.000 However, there is a significant push to try and persuade young Christians to vote for Joe Biden.

00:04:17.000 Can you just help build out first and foremost, before we even get into Joe Biden versus Trump, how should a Christian approach government?

00:04:26.000 What kind of framework should they be working from a biblical worldview?

00:04:32.000 Well, we live in the United States in a unique situation, Charlie.

00:04:36.000 In ancient history and even more recent history, there were kings that ruled over governments, and the only way you could influence government was become a friend of the king or an advisor.

00:04:46.000 Daniel was that, Nehemiah was that, Mordecai was that.

00:04:51.000 But today, we have a much better way to influence government.

00:04:55.000 We vote, we campaign, and we can help different campaigns.

00:04:59.000 We can talk to each other because we have a government that is ultimately determined by the people of the United States.

00:05:06.000 An amazing government, an amazing constitution.

00:05:10.000 But I think our goal as Christians should be to influence government for good.

00:05:17.000 Charlie, I went and looked in the Bible to see if there were any examples of God's people influencing not the government of Israel, any examples of God's people influencing secular government.

00:05:32.000 And there were quite a few.

00:05:33.000 In Genesis 41, there was Joseph second in command over all of Egypt, reporting only to Pharaoh.

00:05:41.000 Go forward a little bit, and we have Daniel as a high advisor to King Nebuchadnezzar.

00:05:46.000 I'm sorry.

00:05:47.000 Darius is who sentenced him to death.

00:05:49.000 Right.

00:05:51.000 And Nehemiah was an advisor to the king.

00:05:56.000 Esther went in before King Ahashuaris and risked her life to protect the Jewish people from destruction.

00:06:03.000 And Esther's relative Mordecai was second in command over the kingdom.

00:06:10.000 So those are the narrative of scripture views those examples with approval.

00:06:16.000 And they're examples of God's people influencing government for good.

00:06:23.000 And I see another example in the New Testament where John the Baptist in Luke 3.19 rebuked Herod, who was the Roman ruler, rebuked Herod for all the evil things he had done.

00:06:33.000 And that had to include a number of public policies.

00:06:37.000 So I see this, Charlie, as examples throughout history of God's people influencing nations in a positive way.

00:06:45.000 I see that as an outworking of God's promise to Abraham in Genesis 12, where God told Abraham, In you shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.

00:06:53.000 And I think throughout history, Christians have brought blessing to nations through their influence.

00:06:59.000 And there's a book by Alvin Schmidt called How Christianity Changed the World, which gives a lot of examples I could go into, but I don't know if you want to go that way.

00:07:08.000 I would love to, and it's similar to a book we've talked about.

00:07:11.000 And I guess we've had the book that built your world by Vishal Mengal Waldi.

00:07:15.000 I don't know if you're familiar with that.

00:07:17.000 I've heard of him and heard of a similar piece of literature.

00:07:21.000 He comes at it from an Eastern perspective, Indian, looking into our experiment.

00:07:27.000 Please build that out for us, though.

00:07:29.000 Yes, some of the examples that influenced me, way back in the Roman Empire, Christian influence led to the outlawing of abortion and infanticide and child abandonment in 374 AD. 0.78

00:07:44.000 So say that again.

00:07:45.000 So in 374, that was after Constantine turned the Eastern Roman Empire into a Christian.

00:07:53.000 And Christian influence did what?

00:07:55.000 No more abortion. 0.73

00:07:56.000 Led to laws outlawing abortion, infanticide or murder of infants, and child abandonment, and the gladiator contest as well.

00:08:05.000 Wow.

00:08:06.000 Where the loser was put to death. 1.00

00:08:08.000 And that was the Christian influence. 0.90

00:08:10.000 Yeah, not to set up the gladiators to end the practice.

00:08:16.000 And we don't have sports teams today where the losers are put to death.

00:08:20.000 Thankfully. 1.00

00:08:21.000 We do still have abortion, unfortunately. 0.83

00:08:24.000 Yes, we do.

00:08:26.000 Going forward, throughout history, in various places and times, Christians have been responsible for women gaining voting rights and property rights and other protections, education, because of a conviction that both men and women are created in the image of God and deserve equal rights.

00:08:45.000 In the 1830s, in the United States, there was an abolitionist movement seeking to abolish slavery.

00:08:54.000 Two-thirds of the leaders of that abolitionist movement were Christian clergymen preaching politics from the pulpit saying that slavery was immoral and needs to be abandoned.

00:09:07.000 And they eventually had an influence on the nation that succeeded.

00:09:14.000 Going over, oh, the War of Independence from Great Britain, in the 17, I think it was 1750 in Boston, a pastor preached a sermon called Discourse on Unlimited Submission, where he was saying unlimited submission to George III, King of England, was morally wrong from the Bible and its teachings about freedom.

00:09:40.000 And that sermon was reprinted many times in 1750, had a great influence on the American thinking that normally Christians should submit to government, but when the government becomes tyrannical and oppressive and doing more harm than good, then Christians have a responsibility to escape from it, as Moses and the people of Israel did from Egypt.

00:10:03.000 So the American pastors had a great influence on the Declaration of Independence, ultimately, from Great Britain.

00:10:14.000 Overseas, other countries, in India, there was a terrible practice of burning widows alive with their dead husbands, which the widows didn't have a very good experience at their husbands' funerals.

00:10:36.000 But Christian influence led to the outlawing of that practice in India.

00:10:40.000 And in China, there was a practice of binding, that was outlawed, the burning of widows alive with their husbands was outlawed in, I believe, 1829, but I have to check.

00:10:53.000 In 1912, Christian influence led to the banning of the cruel practice of binding women's feet, crippling practice of binding women's feet that was outlawed.

00:11:06.000 And then, in our more recent history, my memory, not yours, Charlie, a Baptist pastor named Martin Luther King began preaching from the Bible, saying that segregation and discrimination are morally wrong and the laws need to be changed.

00:11:25.000 And that led to the civil rights movement and changing our laws and in our society.

00:11:32.000 So Christians throughout history have influenced government for good.

00:11:36.000 And I think you are doing that same thing today.

00:11:39.000 Well, that's very kind of you.

00:11:41.000 And so some of the pushback I get, and I'm not alone in receiving this criticism, is that some Christians believe that we should not be in the public square, that we as Christians should stay away from politics, that the church has no role in politics.

00:12:01.000 And this has now been almost the prevailing and dominant viewpoint of many of the biggest churches in the country.

00:12:10.000 Your incredibly, incredibly effective point of mentioning Joseph and Nehemiah, Esther, I missed all the names, but they're phenomenal.

00:12:20.000 Mordecai.

00:12:21.000 Mordecai of Daniel of people in the Bible who are looked at favorably.

00:12:30.000 Yes.

00:12:31.000 We're influencing secular government.

00:12:33.000 Yes.

00:12:34.000 And so is it your position that we as Christians are called to do whatever part we can, small or big, to try and influence public policy or elections or for the welfare or the betterment of the nation that we're in?

00:12:48.000 I believe so, Charlie.

00:12:49.000 Now, different people are called to different things and different occupations and different callings.

00:12:56.000 But, you know, Christians are in the New Testament, we're viewed as exiles from our true homeland.

00:13:01.000 Our true homeland is in heaven.

00:13:03.000 And so there's a tendency to think, well, we shouldn't have anything to do with the earth on which we are exiles.

00:13:10.000 We're not here forever.

00:13:12.000 This world is not my home, that kind of thinking.

00:13:15.000 But I go back to Jeremiah the prophet, who spoke to the exiles, the Jewish exiles who had been taken away from Palestine, their homeland of Israel, and they were carried away 800 miles to Babylon.

00:13:30.000 And they were in a foreign land.

00:13:31.000 And you'd think they would be praying to God to destroy the Babylonian Empire.

00:13:37.000 But Jeremiah said, seek the welfare of the city where God has called you into exile.

00:13:43.000 That word welfare is the Hebrew word shalom.

00:13:45.000 It means well-being.

00:13:46.000 Or peace.

00:13:48.000 Yeah, peace.

00:13:48.000 It's commonly peace, but peace and a positive everything is right in relationship with God and you and the world.

00:13:55.000 Seek the welfare, well-being, the good of the city where God has sent you into exile and pray to the Lord on its behalf, says Jeremiah, for in its welfare you will find your welfare.

00:14:07.000 So Jeremiah is telling them to bring blessing through their prayers to the kingdom of Babylon as long as they are there and in exile.

00:14:16.000 So we should influence civil government for good while we're here on earth as exiles.

00:14:23.000 And the other answer to that is, what do we do with 1 Timothy 2, where Paul says, Pray for those in authority that you might live quiet and peaceable lives.

00:14:30.000 Right, we're to pray for good government.

00:14:31.000 I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.

00:14:42.000 So if we're to pray for good government, pray for change in government, isn't it right also to work as God calls us for good government?

00:14:52.000 So some pastors will say, I don't get involved in politics because of Romans 13.

00:14:59.000 Why don't you preach on Romans 13?

00:15:02.000 Tell me why they're wrong.

00:15:03.000 Romans 13 is where it's the longest passage in the New Testament, Romans 13, 13.

00:15:07.000 Really?

00:15:08.000 No, no, on government.

00:15:09.000 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:15:10.000 Okay, yeah.

00:15:11.000 But it's used all, as you know, it's cited so frequently.

00:15:17.000 I think incorrectly.

00:15:18.000 So for listeners who may not have their Bible app open, let every person be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

00:15:35.000 And then in Romans 13, 4, Paul says the civil authority is God's servant for your good, God's servant for your good.

00:15:44.000 Well, if people who work in government are God's servant for our good, we should do what we can to help them and encourage them in their work.

00:15:53.000 But that's part of God's work on earth, is to call people to some to work in business, some in medicine, some in education, but some in government.

00:16:04.000 And so some Christians say that, what's the point?

00:16:09.000 Why should I vote?

00:16:10.000 I think you've just outlined a very compelling argument that we are commanded biblically to, as you mentioned, want good government and want the betterment of the nation.

00:16:22.000 Pray for it.

00:16:23.000 Pray for it in Jeremiah and Babylon.

00:16:25.000 Pray for 1 Timothy 2, the New Testament. 0.72

00:16:28.000 Pray for kings and those in authority.

00:16:31.000 And then I would say to pastors, Charlie, there are many passages in the Bible that talk about government.

00:16:36.000 Romans 13 is one of them.

00:16:38.000 When are you going to teach your congregation what that passage means and what it says?

00:16:43.000 When are you going to preach on Romans 13?

00:16:44.000 You can't stop with chapter 12.

00:16:47.000 When are you going to preach on 1 Timothy 2 or 1 Peter 2, which talk about government?

00:16:52.000 Or how about Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes?

00:16:54.000 The word king or kings occurs 112 times.

00:16:58.000 Wow.

00:16:59.000 I think God has some things to tell us about how he wants government to work.

00:17:04.000 So that is a perfect transition.

00:17:06.000 So now we've established, I think, a really good foundation.

00:17:10.000 And I'm sure listeners are now convinced.

00:17:12.000 Okay, I'm a Christian.

00:17:14.000 I want to get involved.

00:17:15.000 So now what do we do?

00:17:16.000 And let's just say we're here in 2020, and many of the criticisms that are thrown at President Trump are: I don't like his lifestyle.

00:17:28.000 I don't like his style.

00:17:30.000 I don't like his tone.

00:17:32.000 There is a multi-million dollar effort to try and persuade Christians to vote for Joe Biden.

00:17:40.000 Why should a Christian support President Trump?

00:17:47.000 Because he's doing a good job as president.

00:17:49.000 I have on my website, WayneGrudem.com, WayneGrudem.com.

00:17:55.000 I have on my website an article called List of 30 Good Things President Trump Has Done for America.

00:18:01.000 And the list could go on beyond that.

00:18:04.000 I have a summary of it there.

00:18:06.000 Can I take a look at it?

00:18:06.000 I love it.

00:18:07.000 Yes.

00:18:08.000 You have it here.

00:18:09.000 Protecting unborn babies, building a stronger U.S. military, historic tax cuts and deregulation.

00:18:15.000 But let's talk about number one.

00:18:16.000 And I think you put it there for a reason.

00:18:18.000 And it's similar to a piece you just wrote where your title was The Threat of Judicial Tyranny is the case to vote against Biden, but you have number one as judges.

00:18:28.000 Yes. 0.95

00:18:29.000 Why should Christians care about judges? 0.97

00:18:30.000 They're powerful.

00:18:32.000 They have immense power in our political system.

00:18:37.000 But this is going to take a little bit of explanation, Charlie.

00:18:41.000 Take all the time you need.

00:18:42.000 Okay.

00:18:44.000 In starting the government of the United States, the founders of our country were able to start from scratch and construct a government as they thought best.

00:18:55.000 And there were what I heard somebody say is the greatest collection of political geniuses ever assembled in one place.

00:19:03.000 And they had different views, so they argued back and forth, but they came to compromise on many issues and they came up with a U.S. Constitution, which is amazingly wise.

00:19:12.000 Here's the situation: government has to have enough power to govern the country so we don't have anarchy.

00:19:21.000 But then how is government going to be itself restrained?

00:19:25.000 And how are we going to keep government from becoming a tyranny, dictator, An evil emperor.

00:19:35.000 The answer that the founders of the Constit and the authors of the Constitution came up with was: we're going to divide power or separate power in various areas.

00:19:45.000 We're going to separate national from local power.

00:19:48.000 So states and cities have a lot of power.

00:19:51.000 I think states in the United States have more power than any regional governments in any country that I know of on earth, and I've been to a lot of countries.

00:20:00.000 And then at the national level, power is separated between the Congress, which is legislative, the president, which is the executive branch, and the judicial, which is the judges.

00:20:11.000 There's a separation of power.

00:20:13.000 And then there's a separation of power from the government to the people because we have protected the right of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, freedom to petition the government for grievances, right to bear arms.

00:20:29.000 And there's freedom of the press.

00:20:33.000 So, and then we have regular periodic elections.

00:20:37.000 People who make the laws, the senators and congressmen are accountable to the people.

00:20:41.000 Now, that is key.

00:20:43.000 People who are making the laws have to answer to the population.

00:20:49.000 And then the powers with the separation of power is among the various states.

00:20:53.000 50 states all have some power.

00:20:55.000 So power to govern is scattered throughout all these different branches.

00:21:01.000 The essence of the separation of power, the heart of it, is judges are the final rulers who the final determiners, the final evaluators of whether someone is breaking the rules or not.

00:21:18.000 Because over the Congress, over the president, over the Supreme Court, over the states, over the national government, over all those branches of government is the Constitution.

00:21:29.000 And the judges are to say: if you step outside the bounds of the Constitution, your law is no good.

00:21:34.000 We nullify it, we strike it down.

00:21:38.000 So now we have a liberal idea that came along a few decades ago.

00:21:43.000 Judges can invent new laws and say that they're part of the Constitution when they're not.

00:21:51.000 So in 1973 in Roe v. Wade, we had the judges of the Supreme Court, the justices, say there's a right to abortion in the Constitution, where the Constitution has not one word about abortion.

00:22:05.000 And then Obergefell recently, there's a right to same-sex marriage in the Constitution.

00:22:10.000 Well, the authors of the Constitution would have been astounded to think anybody could see that.

00:22:16.000 Well, here it is right here in this phrase, due process of law.

00:22:19.000 It's not there.

00:22:21.000 So the judges are all of a sudden making laws and laws respecting freedom of religion as well.

00:22:30.000 Charlie, imagine a football game where the referee comes and picks up the football and runs it to the end zone, to the red team's end zone, giving the blue team a touchdown.

00:22:44.000 And the red team protests and says, referee can't carry the ball into the end zone.

00:22:49.000 And the referee says, look at the NFL rule book, Rule 15.2.3.

00:22:55.000 The referee shall be the final determiner of the position of the ball.

00:23:03.000 And then the red team says, that doesn't mean you can pick up the ball and take it into the end zone.

00:23:08.000 It's not what it meant when it was written.

00:23:10.000 And the referee said, I say that's what it means.

00:23:13.000 And there it is what it means.

00:23:15.000 And the blue team's touched on stands.

00:23:17.000 Kick off.

00:23:19.000 Next play.

00:23:24.000 He does the same thing over and over again.

00:23:26.000 And there's nothing anybody can do to stop him because he's the final determiner.

00:23:30.000 So that's what's happening, what's happened with our Supreme Court.

00:23:33.000 When they stopped judging laws and started making laws, the separation of powers, there's two great powers to make laws and to judge laws, evaluate, that separation of powers was destroyed.

00:23:48.000 And now the Republicans, if Amy Coney Barrett is confirmed, which I think she will be.

00:23:53.000 She's phenomenal.

00:23:55.000 There will be a six to three conservative majority on the Supreme Court. 1.00

00:23:59.000 That will protect, and that's six to three, the six conservatives will not make laws.

00:24:05.000 They will only evaluate them.

00:24:06.000 And she was very clear in her hearings in the Senate Judiciary Committee that that's what her job would be.

00:24:11.000 So it's restoring the separation of powers that protects us from tyranny because the people who judge the laws are just judging whether they're according to the Constitution, which protects us, protects our freedom or not.

00:24:23.000 So the answer of the Democrats, many Democrats has been, and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have not disavowed this.

00:24:30.000 They won't answer questions about it, has been, well, that's simple.

00:24:34.000 We'll just add six justices to the Supreme Court, more liberal ones who can start making laws again.

00:24:39.000 That's adding more referees who can make touchdowns for their favorite team.

00:24:45.000 But what that does is it takes the power to make laws and the power to evaluate laws in the same body.

00:24:52.000 And that concentration of powers among a small group of people is what James Madison called in the Federalist Papers the essence of tyranny.

00:25:02.000 Because they could enact the whole liberal agenda, and we couldn't do a thing about it.

00:25:09.000 And the president has the best record on judges that we have seen.

00:25:13.000 Amazing.

00:25:14.000 200 federal judges.

00:25:15.000 More.

00:25:16.000 Yeah, it's not headlines, but they keep there may be 300 by the end of his term.

00:25:16.000 More.

00:25:22.000 It's incredible.

00:25:22.000 The first term.

00:25:23.000 Yeah, by the end of his first term.

00:25:25.000 And then you have Amy Coney Barrett, Gostrich, and Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.

00:25:28.000 The Ninth Circuit has almost been completely flipped.

00:25:33.000 That's where we live.

00:25:34.000 Jeez.

00:25:34.000 Yeah.

00:25:35.000 And you get all the most extraordinary rulings out of that.

00:25:40.000 You also, you have protecting unborn babies.

00:25:43.000 Right.

00:25:44.000 So one of the complaints that some Christians have about President Trump and Republicans is that they only care about being pro-life and then they don't care about anything after that. 0.52

00:26:02.000 Well, how about wages going up?

00:26:04.000 The lowest 10% of wage earners in the United States had the greatest gains from the Trump tax cuts and deregulation.

00:26:12.000 The lowest 20% or 25% had the greatest percentage gains in wages.

00:26:18.000 And 6 million people came out of poverty.

00:26:20.000 6 million people came out of poverty.

00:26:21.000 And unemployment went to record lows, lowest ever for black men, and perhaps a record for Hispanic workers as well.

00:26:33.000 Lowest unemployment ever.

00:26:36.000 That's caring for poverty. 0.99

00:26:37.000 So I'm going to ask you an obvious question for you, but it's not so obvious for every Christian out there.

00:26:41.000 Right.

00:26:42.000 Why should Christians be pro-life in the sense that you and I are preventing abortion?

00:26:49.000 Because the unborn child is a person, is to be treated as a person.

00:26:57.000 When after Mary, the mother of Jesus, got the announcement that she was going to bear a son, she went to visit her relative Elizabeth, who was six months pregnant.

00:27:12.000 And Elizabeth said, when your greeting came to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

00:27:21.000 That's John the Baptist before he was born.

00:27:23.000 He was just in a six-month pregnancy.

00:27:25.000 But he leaped for joy.

00:27:26.000 Now, that's a human activity.

00:27:32.000 Psalm 139, the psalmist says, You knit me together in my mother's womb.

00:27:37.000 David or the psalmist thinks of himself as a person that God put together.

00:27:46.000 More persuasive, ultimately, than those passages, which are important, is Exodus 2021 or 22.

00:27:59.000 I have my Bible here in my briefcase.

00:28:01.000 You have your Bible in your head.

00:28:02.000 You know it better than anyone I've ever met in my life.

00:28:04.000 It's amazing.

00:28:06.000 It's a law in the laws of Moses that says if two men are fighting and they strike a woman with a child, a pregnant woman, and then literally the Hebrew text says, so that her children come out, that is, there's a premature birth or miscarriage.

00:28:25.000 The penalty is, now this is accidentally causing premature birth or miscarriage.

00:28:31.000 If there's no physical harm to the mother or the baby, then there's still a fine to be paid because they endangered human life.

00:28:39.000 But if there's any harm to the mother or the baby, you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, arm for arm.

00:28:46.000 That is, includes life for life.

00:28:50.000 Now, when you go through the other laws that God gave through Moses, accidentally killing someone, like you're chopping wood and the axe head flies off and hits somebody in the head, that isn't punished with capital punishment.

00:29:03.000 There's no death penalty.

00:29:04.000 You just flee to the city of refuge until the death of the high priest.

00:29:08.000 Then you're free to go again.

00:29:09.000 So there's a punishment for accidentally killing another human being, not being careful, but it's not death penalty. 0.87

00:29:17.000 But if you do this with a pregnant woman or her baby, it causes death to either one of them, you lose your life. 0.65

00:29:25.000 That is, there's a stronger punishment for the harm to an unborn child, for the death of an unborn child, than for any other crime in any other accidental wrongdoing in Israel's history, or Israel's laws. 0.60

00:29:41.000 So I think that means, Charlie, that God is putting a higher premium on protecting the life of the unborn child than on protecting the life of any, and his mother, than on protecting the life of anybody else in Israelite society.

00:29:54.000 Plus, there's just the fact that any woman who's pregnant knows there's a person in there.

00:30:03.000 Our son and daughter-in-law recently had a wonderful little baby girl.

00:30:08.000 And when the pregnancy was moving along, they got an ultrasound.

00:30:17.000 It was so funny that they were trying to decide from the ultrasound whether the baby looked like the dad or the mom.

00:30:23.000 But they were thinking of names, they were thinking of him as a separate person.

00:30:28.000 The mother knows.

00:30:30.000 Yeah.

00:30:31.000 Amen.

00:30:32.000 And unlike other parts of the mother's body, unlike parts of the mother's body, not other parts, every cell in the baby's body has a different DNA than the mother.

00:30:44.000 And I don't know how many cells in a baby's body, but we have over 30 trillion cells in our bodies as adults.

00:30:54.000 Not just a clump of cells.

00:30:56.000 30 trillion.

00:30:58.000 If it's not your DNA, it's not your choice.

00:31:01.000 Frequently say that. 0.96

00:31:03.000 Yeah, good.

00:31:04.000 I had never heard that before, but good.

00:31:08.000 Exactly.

00:31:10.000 So these evangelicals for Biden, I've seen the headline, Pro-Life Evangelicals for Biden.

00:31:18.000 That's deceptive because when you go to the website, what they're saying is pro-life means, yes, we're concerned about abortion, but they won't say we need laws to prevent abortion.

00:31:30.000 They'll just say help unwed mothers carry their pregnancy to term and things like that.

00:31:36.000 But pro-life, they say, also means relief of poverty, health care, insurance, health care, opposition to smoking, opposition to racism, and prevention of climate change.

00:31:52.000 So pro-life, which has been in English, has had one standard definition, meaning in favor of laws against abortion.

00:32:04.000 These pro-life evangelicals for Biden are dishonest because they're taking the word pro- or the phrase pro-life and making it mean something it has never meant in American political discourse.

00:32:16.000 No one previously has said, I'm pro-life, which means I'm for government increase in government welfare payments, overcoming smoking, overcoming racism, national health insurance, and climate change opposition.

00:32:34.000 No one, if you say, to an ordinary conversation I'm pro-life, that doesn't mean you're opposed to climate change.

00:32:41.000 It's dishonest.

00:32:43.000 And it's intentional wordplay, which is typical of the left.

00:32:47.000 They do this quite often.

00:32:48.000 Yes, they're trying to change the meaning of the historical meaning of the phrase court packing.

00:32:53.000 Same.

00:32:54.000 They call it depoliticizing the court now.

00:32:57.000 That's what the Associated Press is calling it.

00:33:01.000 Which means we should have all originalists on the court.

00:33:06.000 Because justices who are independent referees are absolutely not political.

00:33:13.000 They're returning the power to make laws to the legislatures and the president, the Congress and the President, or the state legislatures and the governors.

00:33:21.000 That's depoliticizing the court, is electing conservatives to the or nominating and confirming conservatives as justices.

00:33:32.000 I love it.

00:33:34.000 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil.

00:33:37.000 Which verse is that?

00:33:38.000 I don't know.

00:33:43.000 I was hoping you were going to tell me because I don't know.

00:33:46.000 I could find it, but it's probably in Proverbs somewhere.

00:33:49.000 Yeah, or Psalms.

00:33:50.000 Yeah.

00:33:51.000 There's a great - there's actually a really, really great verse in Job, Job 5:12.

00:33:56.000 And I'm paraphrasing, but it's God will confuse the wicked of their corrupt ways, something of that.

00:34:05.000 And it always comforts me when I see some of the people that are pushing for such darkness like we're seeing right now.

00:34:16.000 Yeah.

00:34:17.000 And they just seem to get kind of confused as it kind of gets down to the end.

00:34:21.000 So anyway, that's a side point.

00:34:23.000 I hope.

00:34:24.000 I pray.

00:34:25.000 So you have here number six, standing with Israel.

00:34:30.000 Yes, President Trump moved the American embassy to Jerusalem, which many previous presidents had promised to do, but they haven't followed through.

00:34:38.000 That's a characteristic of President Trump.

00:34:40.000 He gets things done that others haven't been able to finish.

00:34:44.000 His life is a story of achieving impossible goals.

00:34:51.000 He's a doer, incredibly energetic worker who doesn't stop until he gets a solution.

00:34:58.000 But not just moving the embassy to Jerusalem, which is amazing and I think very right.

00:35:05.000 He has negotiated Historic agreements now to normalize diplomatic relations between Israel and Bahrain, Israel and the United Arab Emirates, which is where Dubai is. 0.65

00:35:21.000 This is a history-changing accomplishment, which the press is ignoring, but it's monumental because I think other countries will follow, other Arab countries will follow and ultimately isolate Iran. 0.95

00:35:37.000 Iran is the bad bad player in the Middle East right now. 0.91

00:35:40.000 Yes. 1.00

00:35:41.000 Why should Christians care about Israel?

00:35:47.000 Because someday Romans 11 says God's going to bring a restoration of the people of Israel to trust in Jesus as Messiah. 0.97

00:35:57.000 That is, they will be grafted back into their own olive tree, is the image that Paul uses.

00:36:06.000 Now, here it is, Charlie. 0.94

00:36:09.000 A partial hardening has come upon Israel, Romans 11:25, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved.

00:36:18.000 Romans 8:28, as regards the gospel, this is key. 0.96

00:36:22.000 They are enemies for your sake.

00:36:23.000 So they don't believe they're not trusting in Christ as Messiah.

00:36:26.000 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake.

00:36:29.000 Now, what is they? 0.96

00:36:30.000 It's the people of Israel who have rejected Christ.

00:36:33.000 But as regards the election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.

00:36:37.000 God has a special plan yet for the Jewish people where I think they will be grafted back into their own olive tree. 0.98

00:36:47.000 If their trespass means riches for the world, if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean? 0.99

00:36:54.000 So I think that God has planned that eventually the great revival, Christian revival, is going to come to the Jewish people.

00:37:06.000 And I think their gathering into the land of Israel as a nation in 1948, 72 years ago, is God's preparation for that.

00:37:14.000 And President Trump is the most pro-Israel president.

00:37:18.000 He is.

00:37:19.000 Yeah.

00:37:19.000 I saw the Jerusalem Times say that.

00:37:22.000 They've said that more than once.

00:37:23.000 He's the most pro-Israel president in American history.

00:37:27.000 Recognizing the Golan Heights, moving the embassy to Jerusalem.

00:37:30.000 Yes. 0.58

00:37:31.000 And negotiating peace.

00:37:32.000 Israel and the United Arab Emirates is incredible.

00:37:35.000 The art of the deal.

00:37:36.000 So you have here number 11: withdrawing from Paris Climate Accord.

00:37:42.000 Well, that was expensive.

00:37:44.000 That was an incredibly costly agreement that would have made us more and more dependent on expensive sources of energy, solar energy and wind power, which are unreliable and very expensive.

00:38:01.000 It's all based on an idea that carbon dioxide, which is a harmless and necessary gas, carbon dioxide is what comes out of the can when you open a coke and the fizzes.

00:38:14.000 And we exhale carbon dioxide when we breathe.

00:38:18.000 It's not a poison, it's not a pollutant.

00:38:21.000 But the political left has become convinced that the use of coal, oil, and natural gas, releasing carbon dioxide, is going to overheat the earth.

00:38:36.000 But my thought is this.

00:38:40.000 Do you think that God put these abundant energy sources in the earth, coal, oil, natural gas?

00:38:46.000 They're easily easily transportable once we have them and they're very powerful energy sources.

00:38:51.000 Do we really believe that God put those things in the earth so that we would use them, but he booby-trapped them so that by using them we would destroy the earth?

00:39:00.000 I just don't think God has done that.

00:39:03.000 A big push amongst some young Christians is an environmentalist streak in them.

00:39:09.000 Right.

00:39:09.000 And we are called to love God's creation.

00:39:12.000 However, can you tell us how we are supposed to theologically approach our interaction with the environment?

00:39:19.000 Are we here to, I don't want to use this word worship, but to be subservient to the earth, or are we called to dominate the earth? 0.81

00:39:30.000 I ask because some young Christians almost act as if we are the ones that are contaminating the earth and that we're visitors here.

00:39:38.000 Can you help clarify that?

00:39:40.000 Yeah, that well, I think the position I would advocate is wise use of the earth's resources.

00:39:49.000 Not use the earth's resources and pollute the waters of our country, the lakes and the streams, and not raise crops and leave the land unsuitable for future cultivation.

00:40:07.000 But wise use of the earth means cutting down trees and planting new ones so that more, ever since 1921, every year there have been more board feet of timber growing in the United States than the year before.

00:40:20.000 Because when forest lumber companies come into a wild forest, they cut down the trees that are scattered in random places throughout the area and they plant rows of trees which can get a lot more trees in the same acreage.

00:40:37.000 So we keep getting more and more.

00:40:39.000 100 years ago, 30% of the earth's surface was covered with trees, and now the percentage of the earth's surface covered with trees is 30%.

00:40:48.000 Wow.

00:40:48.000 So it's greener than it ever has been.

00:40:50.000 No, it's the same.

00:40:51.000 30 and 30.

00:40:51.000 Oh, it's the same.

00:40:52.000 Oh, okay.

00:40:53.000 Yeah.

00:40:54.000 Amazing.

00:40:56.000 So you also have on this list persuading European nations to pay more for NATO, protecting against false accusations on college campuses, protecting freedom of speech on college campuses.

00:41:09.000 Which you know.

00:41:10.000 I know a little bit about that.

00:41:11.000 Yeah.

00:41:12.000 And we need it.

00:41:13.000 Oh, boy, do we ever.

00:41:14.000 It's essential to the functioning of democracy. 1.00

00:41:17.000 Why should Christians care about freedom of speech? 0.90

00:41:20.000 Because eventually what will happen without it is you can't preach the gospel publicly.

00:41:26.000 China is just cracking down on the church violently, prohibiting the printing of hymns or printing of Bibles.

00:41:38.000 Can you make the argument why you think the best form of government is not a theocracy for the Christian biblical worldview?

00:41:47.000 Well, Jesus said, render to Caesar that which is Caesar's and render to God that which is God's.

00:41:51.000 So he made a distinction between areas of life that are rightfully governed by civil government.

00:42:01.000 That is paying taxes to Caesar because Caesar's inscription was on the coin that he held.

00:42:06.000 But and render to God the things that are God's indicates that there are some areas of life which the government has no right to control, and that would be certainly our worship and our obedience out of our conscience, obedience to the dictates of our conscience.

00:42:24.000 And this is where conservatives or Republicans and Democrats differ.

00:42:28.000 The dominant view in the Democratic Party is we should force people to people in creative professions, we should force them to affirm a same-sex marriage, which is contrary to their conscience.

00:42:43.000 It's compelled expression. 0.55

00:42:46.000 And that's coercion.

00:42:49.000 And driving people, it'll drive people out of many photography, bakers, florists, Drive them out of those occupations and they'll have to find new work after their lifetime has been given to that occupation.

00:43:05.000 And forcing doctors and nurses to participate in abortion for sacred licensing, those kinds of things.

00:43:17.000 A lot of the feedback I get from swing voters, because we have a lot of people that listen to this podcast.

00:43:24.000 Despite our very outward Christian and conservative position, there's a lot of people that enjoy just listening.

00:43:24.000 Right.

00:43:30.000 I found that, which is really interesting that you can still build a big audience of a diverse viewpoint without pandering.

00:43:38.000 Well, you are interesting yourself.

00:43:39.000 Oh, that's very kind.

00:43:40.000 I don't know about that.

00:43:41.000 That's very kind.

00:43:42.000 But we definitely have some people that are spectators and people in the middle.

00:43:48.000 They say about Trump.

00:43:51.000 I'm a Christian, and I wince when he gives one of those tweets.

00:43:56.000 I can't stand the lifestyle that he lives.

00:43:58.000 He's braggadocious.

00:44:00.000 He's all these sorts of things.

00:44:02.000 How could I, as a Christian, possibly put my name behind something like that?

00:44:07.000 How do you help unpack that?

00:44:09.000 There's no perfect candidate.

00:44:12.000 There are only two choices.

00:44:14.000 We're going to either have Joe Biden as president and all the Democratic policies that come with him, which I think are very destructive to the nation, and 4,000 appointments that the president gets to make in the federal government.

00:44:28.000 We have package A, Biden, or we'll have package B, Trump, with the policies of the Republican Party, which I think are very helpful for the nation and consistent with biblical teaching.

00:44:41.000 And 4,000 appointments that the president gets to make.

00:44:44.000 That's the whole package.

00:44:45.000 Now, in package A, you get Joe Biden's personality, his moral standards, what seems to be his use of government influence for the benefit of his financial benefit of his family.

00:44:58.000 Certainly seems that way.

00:44:59.000 Right.

00:44:59.000 And if you get President Trump in that package, you get President Trump's abrasive personality and his insulting of people.

00:45:05.000 And I wish he wouldn't do that.

00:45:09.000 But he's not perfect, Charlie.

00:45:12.000 But if I'm going through a hostile crowd and I have a bodyguard, I want a bodyguard who's tough.

00:45:18.000 I use the same description.

00:45:22.000 No, I think I did.

00:45:24.000 I think you said at the Republican Convention.

00:45:27.000 Okay.

00:45:27.000 You did.

00:45:28.000 Thank you because I've been using that illustration.

00:45:31.000 Well, I call him a bodyguard for a reason because having to deal with the left as much as I do, I've had my fair share of bodyguards.

00:45:31.000 Thank you.

00:45:40.000 And the bodyguards that make me feel the most safe, that I can live my life, do what I need to do, they're the meanest, toughest dudes you'll ever meet.

00:45:50.000 And they know how to fight.

00:45:52.000 And they turn to me and say, don't worry, I got it.

00:45:55.000 We go through that crowd, and they're six foot eight, and they got shoulders that could fill the whole door.

00:46:00.000 And I think it's just clear that just we have to kind of understand that what kind of president do we want in this time that we're in in our country.

00:46:09.000 And we're in a place, it's a democracy, yes, a special kind of democracy called a republic.

00:46:09.000 Right.

00:46:17.000 But we're in a conflict.

00:46:20.000 There's a conflict between those who want to allow babies' lives to be snuffed out and those who want to protect babies' lives. 0.63

00:46:27.000 Between those who want a strong military and those who want a weak military, between those who want a strong economy and those who want high taxes and government control of business, which is a weakened economy, between those who want spiritual freedom, freedom of conscience for Christians, and those who want to suppress Christians and have us p express moral convictions only inside the walls of the church.

00:46:54.000 Those who are promoting the validity of homosexuality to be taught in public schools versus those who say as Christians, we don't want our children taught those moral standards.

00:47:12.000 There are conflicts at many levels in many policies.

00:47:17.000 Those who want us to be able to use their resources for our benefit, use them wisely, and those who want to restrict and forbid us to use the earth's resources.

00:47:28.000 Those who think that the best solution to poverty is jobs that allow people to support themselves and give the dignity of work, versus those who think the success is increasing the number of people on welfare, not increasing the number of people, increasing the amount of welfare that is distributed, yeah.

00:47:51.000 So they're very different.

00:47:53.000 I think of political liberals as those who think that they know better than we do how we should run our lives.

00:48:01.000 And the Bible places, as I read it, the Bible places a very high value on individual personal freedom and personal responsibility.

00:48:09.000 There's another difference.

00:48:10.000 Do we think that individuals who riot and commit looting and arson are responsible for their actions?

00:48:17.000 Or do we blame the society that brought them up and influenced them?

00:48:21.000 And we talk about this often on our program, which is just going back to the roots of social contract theory of Rousseau versus Lobbs.

00:48:29.000 Rousseau versus Hobbes versus Locke, which is, are we, who are we in our natural state?

00:48:38.000 Are we flawed and in need of a savior such as Jesus Christ?

00:48:42.000 Or anything that you see that is less than, is it because of the system?

00:48:42.000 Yes.

00:48:47.000 And Rousseau would hold that view.

00:48:49.000 Rousseau would hold the view that any sinful nature is not that at all, or any activity that you might deem to be impermissible, it's because of the system around you, and you have to change the system.

00:49:03.000 Right.

00:49:04.000 So that shields people from personal responsibility for their actions.

00:49:09.000 Yes.

00:49:10.000 But the whole history of the Bible is people are held accountable for their own actions.

00:49:17.000 The son shall not suffer for the father's sin or the father for the son.

00:49:25.000 And it changed that.

00:49:26.000 I mean, that changed all of, you know, civilization up until that point where there was an idea of blood guilt and an idea of just being group accountability.

00:49:41.000 Yes.

00:49:41.000 Group culpability for moral wrongdoing.

00:49:43.000 Yes.

00:49:44.000 Which is a retreat to tribalism, which is what I'm afraid.

00:49:47.000 It is.

00:49:47.000 And then there's no accountability for individual wrongdoing.

00:49:55.000 And crime and violence and murder increase rapidly, as we're seeing in Chicago, in New York, in other cities controlled by liberal Democrats.

00:50:08.000 So I have to ask you about this one.

00:50:10.000 It just caught my eye.

00:50:11.000 Number eight, actually building a border wall.

00:50:14.000 Yes.

00:50:15.000 I am told by Christians that are pro-life.

00:50:19.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:50:20.000 They are anti-socialism.

00:50:21.000 Yeah.

00:50:22.000 But they say, why don't we have looser borders?

00:50:25.000 Why don't we have a more generous immigration policy?

00:50:29.000 I don't like the wall. 1.00

00:50:30.000 It's un-Christian. 0.89

00:50:31.000 What do you have to say about that? 0.98

00:50:38.000 I was in a taxi.

00:50:39.000 I don't know if it was India or Brazil, someplace talking to a taxi driver.

00:50:45.000 And I somehow said to him, would you like to come to America?

00:50:48.000 And he said, you know, he was talking about coming to America.

00:50:50.000 I said, you'd like to come to America?

00:50:52.000 He said, everybody in the world wants to come to America.

00:50:56.000 I think that was a taxi driver's wisdom to realize.

00:50:58.000 But the population of the world is 22 times the population of the United States.

00:51:02.000 And we have limited resources, obviously.

00:51:06.000 Yeah. 0.96

00:51:07.000 When I fly to the United States from a foreign country, I can't just walk off the plane into my car and go home.

00:51:15.000 I use this example all the time. 0.93

00:51:17.000 I have to go through border control.

00:51:18.000 And customs.

00:51:20.000 I have to go through immigration and customs because the United States has an interest, as every other nation on earth does, in controlling who comes into the country. 0.55

00:51:33.000 So we. 0.84

00:51:37.000 Oh, I just let's see.

00:51:40.000 Just let me gather my thought here.

00:51:45.000 I would encourage people who think a border wall is a bad idea to take a concordance or a Bible app and search for the word wall in the Bible.

00:51:56.000 There are many examples of walls being a blessing.

00:52:01.000 When the wall around Jerusalem was completed, it was a blessing from God, a sign of God's favor.

00:52:10.000 And there's a proverb: a man without self-control is like a city broken into and left without walls.

00:52:17.000 That's a shameful thing for a city to have.

00:52:20.000 Now, cities had gates so people could come in, but there was a control over who came in.

00:52:25.000 Wasn't it Nehemiah that helped rebuild the wall? 0.69

00:52:27.000 Yes.

00:52:28.000 Yeah.

00:52:29.000 Yeah.

00:52:30.000 Whole books about that.

00:52:31.000 Yeah.

00:52:31.000 But there are other passages in Psalms and Proverbs about the blessing of a wall.

00:52:38.000 You were secure within the walls of the city.

00:52:42.000 So I think we need to build a border wall.

00:52:44.000 Now, I think we should have a big gate.

00:52:47.000 I think we should let Lott in.

00:52:48.000 It's a big country and we can accommodate many more people.

00:52:53.000 And I'm thankful for immigrants.

00:52:54.000 We should be thankful for immigrants.

00:52:57.000 We're a nation built on immigrants. 0.95

00:53:00.000 But we need the right to control, the ability to control who comes in and who is admitted. 1.00

00:53:06.000 It's a harm to the country, but it's a harm to those who come in undocumented and secretly and live in a subservient or subordinate class or group that is unknown to the system, but then they can be robbed or beaten and they're afraid to report the crime to the police. 0.95

00:53:28.000 They're taken advantage of because they don't want it known that they're here without documentation. 0.98

00:53:33.000 It's a harm to them as well as a harm to the society. 1.00

00:53:38.000 I think we should let in many, many, many immigrants. 1.00

00:53:40.000 We let in a million a year legally, which is more than any nation in the world.

00:53:46.000 I think we could do more.

00:53:47.000 But the American people will not, there will not be a popular will to come to a reasonable solution about immigration until people feel the wall is secure, the border is secure. 1.00

00:53:59.000 Then, what do we do with people who are here illegally? 0.99

00:54:01.000 I think there should be a path to citizenship.

00:54:03.000 It should be a humane solution.

00:54:06.000 Now, the details of it would have to be worked out in politics.

00:54:10.000 But I think, Charlie, and this is my own opinion.

00:54:13.000 I think that there's a difference in the political parties.

00:54:16.000 The Republicans want a comprehensive immigration reform plan that would allow a lot of immigrants in legally.

00:54:22.000 But the Democrats don't want any deal at all because they think it helps them politically to keep on letting more and more undocumented immigrants come into the country because eventually they think they'll become Democratic voters.

00:54:37.000 That is their strategy.

00:54:40.000 So, in closing, I want to talk about why you think certain churches have remained silent on the political issue and why other churches have embraced kind of critical race theory and BLM Incorporated.

00:54:52.000 And so, why do you think that the church does not see these issues as clearly as you do?

00:54:58.000 Now, a majority of Christians do, actually, but some of these institutions seem as if they have wavered on some of these issues.

00:55:06.000 Is it that they're not teaching proper theology?

00:55:08.000 They're afraid of losing membership.

00:55:10.000 What do you attribute that to?

00:55:13.000 I am hesitant to explain what people's motives are because I don't even always know the motives in my own heart for my own actions.

00:55:23.000 So, I'm reluctant to say with much conviction what I think the reasons are that pastors sometimes don't preach about political issues.

00:55:33.000 My own pastor does.

00:55:35.000 He gave a very good sermon a couple weeks ago.

00:55:38.000 And you're a tough grader.

00:55:39.000 Yeah.

00:55:41.000 I wouldn't want to give a sermon to you.

00:55:45.000 But there's a natural fear.

00:55:47.000 I'm going to alienate people in the church.

00:55:50.000 I'm going to drive away visitors.

00:55:52.000 I'm going to, some people will walk out and be mad at me.

00:55:56.000 And my answer is to say, look, your responsibility is to proclaim all of the Bible's teachings.

00:56:04.000 What Paul says in Acts 20, 27, I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole council of God.

00:56:10.000 That means everything the Bible teaches.

00:56:12.000 So I don't think we're responsible.

00:56:20.000 I don't think we're responsible for no one ever leaving our church.

00:56:24.000 People walked out on Jesus.

00:56:26.000 People stoned Paul and drove him out of city after city.

00:56:29.000 Iconium Lystra, Antioch, Iconium, Lystra.

00:56:32.000 He was driven out of Thessalonica, Ephesus, ultimately.

00:56:37.000 But he, at the end of his life, could say, I've fought the good fight, I've finished the race, I've kept the faith.

00:56:43.000 So I want to be able to say that too.

00:56:47.000 I want to be able to say I've been faithful in teaching everything that God wanted me to teach and everything his word said.

00:56:56.000 Jesus, in fact, said this is something that pastors could think about.

00:57:00.000 Woe to you when all people speak well of you.

00:57:06.000 That's good.

00:57:07.000 If you're not being criticized, you're probably not doing something right.

00:57:10.000 Yeah.

00:57:11.000 Amen.

00:57:12.000 Well, we're right up against the selection.

00:57:14.000 I think you've made a very compelling argument.

00:57:17.000 I want to list all 30 very quickly.

00:57:19.000 I talk very fast.

00:57:20.000 You said 30 good things President Trump has done for America, and this is from a Christian biblical worldview.

00:57:25.000 It's on my website, Wayne Grudem.

00:57:26.000 WayneGrudem.com.

00:57:27.000 It's judges, tax cuts, building a stronger U.S. military, protecting unborn babies, expanding educational freedom, standing with Israel, negotiating a historic agreement between Israel and the UAE, building a border wall, comprehensive immigration reform proposals, religious freedom and freedom of conscience, withdrawing from Paris Climate Accord, energy production, energy independence, waterways of the U.S., halting the increase in corporate average fuel economy standards, defeating ISIS, persuading European nations to pay more for NATO,

00:57:56.000 protecting against false accusations on college campuses, my favorite, protecting freedom of speech on college campuses, 18.

00:58:02.000 Protecting boys and girls' bathrooms, locker rooms, and sports teams, very important.

00:58:06.000 Negotiating new trade agreements that are more favorable to the U.S., streamlining environmental reviews for major construction projects, sending weapons to Ukraine, standing up to China and Russia, withdrawing from the Iran deal, a wise COVID-19 response, reforming the Department of Veteran Affairs, criminal justice from reducing prescription drug prices, protecting federal property from rioters, and welcoming evangelical Christians in positions of influence.

00:58:30.000 And you say the context, refusing to waver in the face of the most biased reporting in American history.

00:58:35.000 And you say for every one negative statement of Biden, there's 158 negative evaluations of Trump.

00:58:40.000 That's evening news, NBC, CBS, and ABC during June and July.

00:58:45.000 I remember that because 158 is the number I see when I step on the scale.

00:58:51.000 That's funny.

00:58:52.000 You're right.

00:58:53.000 Those three major networks when the Media Research Center counted the negative evaluative statements made about Biden and Trump.

00:59:02.000 For every one statement that was negative about Joe Biden, there were 158 negative statements about President Trump.

00:59:08.000 Now, people say, I don't like his character.

00:59:10.000 Well, he's been subject to character assassination for three and a half years.

00:59:14.000 And I think that people who say that think that he's much worse, much, much worse than he is.

00:59:19.000 I agree with that.

00:59:20.000 That's a great point.

00:59:21.000 I think his contact, I agree, his previous contact, his previous conduct.

00:59:26.000 I agree that his previous conduct regarding marriage has not been stellar, has not been faithful.

00:59:32.000 It's been contrary to God's moral law.

00:59:35.000 But people change.

00:59:38.000 And while he's been in office, he's been exemplary in his conduct, not always in every word he says.

00:59:45.000 And I'm not going to defend all his words.

00:59:48.000 But in his conduct as president, he's shown dignity and strength of resolve and patriotism and love for the country and courage.

00:59:56.000 And I think he's doing a good job.

00:59:58.000 Well, it's been amazing, Dr. Grudem, WayneGrudem.com.

01:00:02.000 And I encourage everyone to check out your politics according to the Bible book.

01:00:06.000 It's phenomenal.

01:00:07.000 And you have some articles that have been written about the election.

01:00:10.000 They're all on my website.

01:00:11.000 And I encourage everyone to check them out and circulate them to friends and family.

01:00:15.000 And I hope that this episode helped clarify why you should get involved in politics.

01:00:20.000 The five examples that you named of people in the Bible that were influencing secular government.

01:00:28.000 You said Joseph, Nehemiah, Esther, Daniel, Mordecai.

01:00:31.000 Right.

01:00:31.000 I don't think that's an exhaustive list, but that's a pretty good one.

01:00:33.000 John the Baptist.

01:00:34.000 John the Baptist.

01:00:35.000 Jeremiah.

01:00:36.000 Jeremiah.

01:00:36.000 See, I just keep adding this.

01:00:39.000 And then Paul, 1 Timothy 2.

01:00:41.000 Peter, 1 Peter 2.

01:00:44.000 And then you mentioned how Christians have helped build the modern world.

01:00:48.000 And so we had that framework.

01:00:50.000 Right.

01:00:51.000 And then we built up from there what we should actually do in this election, which I think is a very compelling argument from a biblical worldview to re-elect President Trump.

01:01:00.000 So thank you, Dr. Grudem.

01:01:01.000 Good to be with you.

01:01:02.000 God bless you.

01:01:03.000 Thank you.

01:01:03.000 Okay.

01:01:06.000 What a great conversation that was with Wayne Grudem.

01:01:09.000 Please consider getting involved with Turning Point USA.

01:01:12.000 Start a chapter.

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01:01:18.000 Email us, freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:01:21.000 And if this podcast has moved you, touched you in any way, and you want young people to hear this message and you say, man, I just wish my nephew, my niece, my son, my daughter, my granddaughter would hear messages like this.

01:01:35.000 Well, you can help make that possible at charliekirk.com/slash support.

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01:01:46.000 Thank you guys so much.

01:01:47.000 God bless.

01:01:48.000 Talk to yourself.

The Charlie Kirk Show - October 25, 2020

A Moral and Spiritual Defense of President Trump with Theologian Wayne Grudem

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