00:01:16.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:57.000Happy to be here with you today, Charlie.
00:01:58.000All right, there's a lot I want to talk to you about.
00:02:00.000Let's just start with the James O'Keefe story.
00:02:02.000He's been in the news the last couple days.
00:02:04.000If I'm not mistaken, you are representing Project Veritas with the raid that occurred of his apartment.
00:02:10.000What is the latest with that situation?
00:02:14.000Well, the latest is that, you know, there are kind of two parallel things happening.
00:02:17.000There is a situation happening with the New York Times where the New York Times is being sued by Project Veritas, and the New York Times has actually been publishing confidential information of Project Veritas.
00:02:34.000And I'm not at liberty to go into all of the details there, but what I will say is that I think that the overall, the situation of the United States Department of Justice using its awesome power to raid a journalist's home at 6 a.m. in the morning without probable cause,
00:02:54.000without due process, in violation of the First Amendment, the Privacy Protection Act, which is a federal statute, and United States Department of Justice guidelines passed by this very Attorney General.
00:03:05.000I think it is truly chilling and shocking.
00:03:07.000It's something that should disturb every American journalist and every American citizen.
00:03:12.000And I am proud to be part of the team that's helping to expose what the DOJ is doing in coordination with liberal allies in the media and the government.
00:03:22.000Yeah, the collusion is what is so stunning about this whole thing, which is it seems as if there is an inside-out relationship between the security apparatus and the New York Times.
00:03:32.000We had James on our show during America Fest, and he had to be careful what he said.
00:03:37.000I connected the dots for the audience in the sense that it sure looks like privileged conversations that James O'Keefe had somehow found its way into the New York Times lap.
00:03:48.000Now, how that happened, we don't know.
00:03:50.000Why the New York Times is in the business of publishing privileged information?
00:03:54.000It very well could have been from the raid and then turned around quickly and leaked illegally, which we know is a pattern from the security state.
00:04:02.000But regardless, we do know that James O'Keefe shockingly received a call from the New York Times right after this raid occurred.
00:04:10.000They would only know that if the information was leaked.
00:04:13.000And so can you talk a little bit about how once upon a time, the New York Times, a long time ago, 30 or 40 years ago, they used to be critics of the security state.
00:04:23.000Now they seem to be auxiliaries of it.
00:04:44.000There really is no other explanation than a leak from the United States Department of Justice, the same type of thing that we saw with CNN cameras being outside Roger Stone's home during a completely unnecessary violent raid.
00:04:57.000What's happening here is that the media, which used to be skeptical of the state generally, and by the way, that includes the whole liberal establishment, the American Civil Liberties Union and so forth, they have become all too cozy with the government.
00:05:12.000And in part, that's because many of them are liberal and they're not shy about using inside information and trading favors with government officials to push a particular agenda.
00:05:23.000We certainly see that with respect to a complete lack of curiosity or criticism of COVID mandates, questioning sort of the efficacy of the vaccine on the Omicron virus.
00:05:35.000These types of issues, you have an adoring fanboy culture in the liberal media of the liberal state.
00:05:44.000Even as a conservative, my entire life, I used to rely on liberal media and liberal activists to actually ask questions of the government and put the government to the test.
00:05:56.000And that's the gap that conservative lawyers like myself and conservative journalists like James and others are filling now.
00:06:04.000And there's very much fewer of us than there were of the liberal edifice.
00:06:08.000So we have a ways to go to catch up, Charlie.
00:06:10.000Yeah, there's still some honest people out there.
00:06:12.000Glenn Greenwald has been really consistent to his credit.
00:06:15.000Obviously, he's no fan of the security state.
00:06:18.000And I think that is a mutual hatred that they have of each other.
00:06:21.000He obviously broke the Edward Snowden story almost 10 years ago.
00:06:26.000So I want to ask you, Harme, there's this story that's been developing slowly in the last couple months of the National School Board Association of America that wrote this letter that then triggered surveillance from the Department of Justice, or at least we know threat assessment tags from the DOJ and FBI to categorize moms and dads as terrorists.
00:06:45.000Came out yesterday that the head of the education secretary, Cabrera, who's there, now actually there's evidence to show that he asked the National School Board Association of America to for the letter, right?
00:07:01.000So this is an important point that the government is asking a private organization for a letter to try and then get justification to then trigger domestic surveillance.
00:07:19.000This is to me, this is part of a pattern.
00:07:22.000You know, we, for example, my law firm and nonprofit, the Center for American Liberty, sued the state of California over a similar fact pattern where after the 2020 election, the state, working together with the National Association of Secretaries of State and social media companies, asked the social media companies to take down speech of certain speakers that was critical of the Secretary of State.
00:07:51.000And Twitter did that in almost 100% of the cases and other social media companies to a lesser degree.
00:08:06.000You have a, by the way, such a corrupt situation because each of these corporations or entities is regulated by the same regulators who are asking for these favors.
00:08:18.000And these favors are being dealt as, I think, deal making for personal or business benefit.
00:08:26.000The average citizen doesn't have access to letters or custom-ordered prosecutions or takedowns.
00:08:33.000And only the powerful elites have that.
00:08:36.000In this case, we aren't talking about individual teachers.
00:08:39.000We're talking about the powerful elites of the California and the other national teachers' unions, which are incredibly powerful in electing people, Democrats throughout the United States, and now in wielding influence over exactly what children are being taught in the schools.
00:08:54.000And in fact, characterizing parents who care about their children as terrorists.
00:08:59.000This is something every parent and every American should be concerned about, Charlie.
00:09:03.000I mean, not only are they teaching critical race theory, but they're able to concoct a scheme to use the FBI to categorize parents they don't like as potential Timothy McVades.
00:09:17.000And that's a whole new level of influence in a bad way.
00:09:20.000I got to say, Hermie, you're on the front lines of so many of these fights right now.
00:09:25.000I want to get into the big tech issue.
00:09:27.000I also want to kind of get into some of these, the OSHA mandate and the COVID regulation.
00:09:31.000There are not a lot of lawyers out there that are willing to challenge the power centers.
00:09:39.000I say, if you really want business, go get in the business of defending constitutionalists and conservatives because business is a booming, as Leonardo DiCaprio would say, unfortunately.
00:09:51.000There's not a lot of you, as you well know.
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00:11:46.000The court selected only two parties to argue.
00:11:48.000One was Ohio on behalf of secretaries of state, most of whom in the country are challenging this vaccine mandate for different reasons.
00:11:56.000And the other was a large business association.
00:11:59.000So based on the Friday hearings, I felt, I would say right after the hearing, that there were five solid votes to overturn the OSHA mandate or enjoy it.
00:12:10.000Potentially sixth one with Justice Roberts, who started off a little more skeptical, but made some very good comments during the argument.
00:12:18.000And then you definitely have three solid votes to defer to the government, even despite the very shallow record that the government has produced that the vaccine mandate is necessary in the workplace to prevent harm to workers that's unique to the workplace.
00:12:38.000And I've been sitting by the computer hitting refresh on the Supreme Court docket, like other lawyers who have cases before the court here in this situation.
00:12:49.000But a couple of observations I'll share because last year, my nonprofit and our law firm were involved in three separate lawsuits that won at the United States Supreme Court over religious liberties.
00:13:00.000And in those cases, the court didn't even have a hearing.
00:13:03.000They just did what we call a grant cert vacate the lower court and remand.
00:13:08.000In this case, I think in order to sort of shield itself from criticism, the court did schedule an argument, but it did it very quickly.
00:13:15.000And it did it with just two of the 13 or 14 parties before the court.
00:13:19.000That to me suggests that a lot of the justices already had their minds made up and started writing their opinions.
00:13:24.000That is, the clerk started writing the opinions over the Christmas break.
00:13:28.000And now I suspect the delay, which a lot of us expected that there would have been a ruling by Monday morning when the vaccine mandate went into effect at the beginning of compliance.
00:13:38.000I think we're probably looking at some persuading and horse trading going on amongst the conservative justices, hopefully, to see if they can get to a larger consensus.
00:13:46.000And if there is a larger consensus, it's going to be on a narrow ground.
00:13:49.000So a lot of conservatives ask us, why didn't I hear about liberty?
00:13:53.000Why didn't I hear about the efficacy of the vaccine?
00:13:55.000Why didn't I hear about the Constitution so much during those arguments?
00:13:59.000And the answer is that skilled Supreme Court advocates like the ones before the court, they're really looking not to persuade the ones who are definitely not going to vote their way or the ones who are definitely going to vote their way.
00:14:10.000They're looking to persuade the couple of justices in the middle.
00:14:14.000And that's why they make arguments that are more limited and potentially technical than what advocates and sort of people who are very passionate about the Constitution would like.
00:14:24.000So I don't have a criticism of those arguments.
00:14:26.000I am nervous about the time that the court has been taking.
00:14:29.000I hope and still feel like we're going to get a positive ruling on the workplace mandate, on the mandate that has to do with hospitals and other medical facilities because the mandate is tied to federal funding.
00:14:41.000I think there's a much larger chance the justices uphold that.
00:14:58.000Well, since I have cases before the Supreme Court from time to time, I'm not going to criticize any particular justice.
00:15:05.000You know, I will only say that I have been disappointed myself as a lawyer with many cases before the court in this past COVID cycle at the results from the court.
00:15:18.000The rulings have generally been narrow, but Amy Coney Barrett did join the majority in a very important case that we had at the Center for American Liberty, Tandon versus Newsome, which was over people meeting in their homes to do Bible study during COVID.
00:15:32.000And she was one of the justices on the right side of that case.
00:15:38.000So I hope she goes the way of Gorsuch and Thomas and Alito.
00:15:43.000Kavanaugh's been okay, and Roberts has not.
00:15:49.000Hillsdale College wishes to thank you for standing with them as they celebrate over 177 years of blessings.
00:15:55.000Since 1844, the Beacon of the North, the last college, Hillsdale College, has held fast to its mission to provide the kind of education essential to preserving free government.
00:16:04.000And for decades, the college has extended its educational mission on behalf of liberty through a variety of outreach programs.
00:16:10.000Perhaps you receive in primus for every month, or have taken one of Hillsdale's excellent online courses, or attended one of Hillsdale's free regional events.
00:16:17.000You know of Hillsdale's refusal to take even one penny of government money.
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00:16:27.000And no time in our nation's history has there been a greater need for this kind of classical liberal arts education that Hillsdale offers on its campuses and nationwide.
00:16:34.000So, during this season of blessings, Hillsdale thanks you for partnership in extending its mission to the country.
00:16:39.000To learn more about Hillsdale College and take their online courses: the Aristotle course, the Winston Churchill course, the Dying Citizen course, which I'm about to wrap up with Victor Davis Hanson.
00:17:32.000Okay, so starting with a personal perspective, that as an immigrant to this country, I can tell you that this country has the freest and most open elections in the world.
00:17:41.000It is very easy for American citizens to vote.
00:17:46.000And most Americans agree with what I just said.
00:17:49.000So when you hear the type of demagoguery, incoherent yet quite dangerous, the parts we understood from what the president said yesterday, you know that this message is being pushed not for reasons to increase voting in this country, but for reasons to obtain a partisan advantage in this country.
00:18:11.000And that's really not the appropriate role of the president to be pushing these types of actual lies as he did in Georgia in order to undermine confidence in the integrity of our elections.
00:18:39.000So what's really going on here is Democrats are trying to rig our elections to allow less security for the elections, to allow more anonymity in people being able to sign up to vote without any verification of who they are, to allow people to vote who aren't even United States citizens, which I think should be banned in this country.
00:19:00.000And so that's what's really going on here.
00:19:02.000Now, let's get more granular and talk about it from the Republican and RNC perspective.
00:19:08.000I have to say that I think that a lot of Republicans in the states, which is where most of our election laws are made, the vast majority of them, I think people were asleep at the wheel.
00:19:16.000I think Republican legislatures, including that of Georgia and many other red states, simply just had this kind of weak attitude towards these issues.
00:19:24.000They caved anytime anybody, Stacey Abrams or any other boogeyman, filed a lawsuit or made noises or called them mean names.
00:19:31.000And as a result, we had a, I think, catastrophic election in 2020 with an absolute shambles, compounded by COVID, of course.
00:19:51.000We had a lot of states like Wisconsin completely ignoring their own guidelines and written laws regarding who gets an absentee ballot.
00:19:59.000So the good news is that a lot of Republicans did wake up after that election.
00:20:04.000Legislatures, including Georgia's legislature and their governor, including Montana, you don't hear a lot about, but Montana did a great job overhauling their election laws and actually rolling back some of the destructive things that Democrats had done.
00:20:18.000And so now what Democrats are doing, led by lawyer Mark Elias, who has an unlimited budget and dozens of lawyers at his disposal to go file completely frivolous lawsuits, they're simply attacking every Republican legislature or legislature in the country that has tried to increase the integrity of our elections.
00:20:35.000And so Republicans are playing a game of catch up.
00:20:38.000And so, you know, the Republican National Committee has actually done a terrific job.
00:20:41.000They get a lot of criticism, but as a member of the RNC, I can tell you the RNC has invested more in litigation in the last year than they ever have before, including five interventions in Georgia, which is a very important battleground state, and also planned litigation in other places.
00:20:57.000And I'm honored to represent the RNC in many cases and Republican parties throughout the country.
00:21:01.000Later today, I'll be filing a lawsuit in one of these states to protect the election integrity of that state.
00:21:07.000And I think it is heartening to see that.
00:21:10.000But I want to explain to your viewers, Charlie, that we see sometimes the Republican parties raising more money than the Democratic Party.
00:21:17.000But what we don't see is that what the Democratic National Committee is doing is just the tip of the iceberg, literally.
00:21:24.000Nine-tenths of what they're doing is under the surface, and it's not being done through the party.
00:21:29.000It's being done through these fake nonprofits that these liberals have set up over the years.
00:21:35.000Hundreds of these nonprofits are raising money quietly.
00:21:38.000And there's dark money flowing into these coffers and they're being used for political purposes.
00:21:43.000So even though you might see a plaintiff being an ACLU or a welfare rights organization or what have you, in reality, the money is coming from Democrat donors who are trying to rig elections to a particular outcome.
00:21:56.000So Republicans need to man up and match that dollar for dollar and get their checkbooks out and spend less money on crappy candidates who aren't possibly going to win their election and spend that money instead on strengthening our laws so that it's not just members of Congress and Senate, but we're talking about school boards, we're talking about mayors, we're talking about where the majority of our laws and our governing is done.
00:22:20.000That can only be protected by strong laws in the states.
00:22:24.000And there is no federal solution for this.
00:22:26.000We have to be very vigilant of these efforts to try to make everything into California with HR1, HR4, you name it.
00:22:33.000They put some fancy name of some great civil rights leader on a law and they push absolute garbage designed to shred our election laws.
00:22:42.000Right now, Charlie, our ability in the states to have laws written at the level they're supposed to be under the Constitution at the states, it depends on the good health and the favor of two Democrat senators, Kristen Sinema and Joe Manchin.
00:23:17.000A lot of our audience, though, doesn't really buy part of what you said, just to be very honest, because the RNC wasn't on top of it in 2020.
00:23:26.000The reason we have two Democrat senators in Georgia, like you just said, Warnock and Ossif, is Brian Kemp signed a consent degree in the spring of 2020 and no one knew about it.
00:23:40.000I don't think that there was a great record here.
00:23:43.000But what I want to, again, emphasize is that the majority of our election laws are made at the state level.
00:23:50.000And I can tell you, as a Republican lawyer who has gone to the RNC, every single time I see an issue that I become aware of, whether it's in my state, California, or whether it's in another state, the lawsuit I'm going to file today is not in California.
00:24:40.000A lot of donors gave a lot of money to go watch Warnock and Osset win in a very, very win, very fixable situation where there could have been a special session called in Georgia and there were no lawsuits.
00:24:52.000And we just like, oh, yeah, we're just going to let 1.2 million ballots go into the state of Georgia.
00:24:56.000I think it's, I agree that there's been changes made, but it's we're in this situation because of some of the organizations that raised hundreds of millions of dollars and didn't do anything.
00:25:12.000But can I add one more point, which is that there's an institutional problem, which is that a lot of the lawyers who have typically been given the business, the contracts to do this type of litigation inside the beltway, and I mean dollars from the RNC, the NRCC, the NRSC, all the alphabet Republican organizations which send, which bombard your phone with direct mail messages all day long.
00:25:37.000They like to hire, you know, certain handful of establishment lawyers in DC now, which is not me, by the way.
00:25:43.000I'm as far away from D.C. as you can be.
00:25:49.000Like we don't just need better Republican legislators and lawmakers.
00:25:53.000We need better Republican lawyers too and more of them.
00:25:56.000I get intense about this, Harme, and you're part of the solutions because I know firefighters and police officers that gave more money than they had because they started getting text messages about fighting for voter integrity and all this.
00:26:06.000And I hear stories that we didn't even have lawyers on Retainer in Nevada when Matt Schlapp landed on the ground.
00:26:25.000And I've talked to Rana about this and she, you know, acknowledges that there's a lot better operation running here.
00:26:31.000I just, I do want to make sure it's clear, though, that as we look at the Democrat-controlled Senate, there's no reason why Warnock and Ossaf ever shouldn't have won.
00:26:55.000So let me tell you that this is something that I took a leadership role in in California.
00:26:59.000For example, Gavin Newsom and the Democrat legislature here wanted to impose a requirement that President Trump or any candidate release their tax returns as a condition of being on the ballot for governor or president in California.
00:27:12.000And of course, that is not a requirement in the United States Constitution.
00:27:32.000And we established yet again the principle that states and governors and secretaries of state and even Supreme Court justices of a state, they don't have the right to change the qualification requirements to get on a ballot.
00:27:47.000Only in the case of a presidential qualification, it's what's in the United States Constitution, okay?
00:27:53.000And so I do not think Mark Elias, for all of his bluster, he can go to court, he can make noises.
00:27:58.000But until we have a constitutional amendment that puts these fake controversies into the Constitution, which in my opinion is never going to happen, not in my lifetime, hopefully, I think he's just making noise and raising dollars.
00:28:12.000I think that he's not going to be able to disqualify President Trump or anybody based on some fake criteria.
00:28:19.000Now, what I will say is that there are Republicans out there who, you know, frankly don't deserve the title of Republican, who will readily side with, I think, people who are inimical to the values of this country to join with Democrats on that.
00:28:34.000There are Republicans in Congress right now.
00:28:35.000There's Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger and you name it.
00:28:38.000And there are some Republican senators who will say something on television and say something different in the cloakroom.
00:28:45.000But overall, I think that, you know, I am ready and many other lawyers will be ready with lawsuits if any such thing ever passes into legislation.
00:28:53.000I think it's laughable from a legal perspective, the fact that you could disqualify people for insurrection, even though no one's been charged with insurrection.
00:29:00.000But he is a slippery guy and he's very sneaky and he controls a lot of money.
00:29:04.000And I encourage everyone to go read the Time magazine article written by Molly Ball, the secret campaign or the shadow campaign that saved the 2020 election.
00:29:13.000And Elias was the center role of that.
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00:30:30.000What's on your mind that we haven't covered that you're working on or that you think our audience needs to know about?
00:30:36.000Well, Charlie, I think the big tech censorship issue is definitely one where I feel it's a very critical thing for the future of our country in so many different ways.
00:30:47.000My law firm over the years has filed many lawsuits against the big tech companies.
00:30:50.000I think I've sued all of them in different ways over time.
00:30:53.000The lawsuit that I mentioned earlier in the hour against Twitter on behalf of Rogan O'Hanley, I feel that's a very important case.
00:31:00.000And we're likely to take that case to the next step as well to appeal because the idea that the government can collude with corporations to silence our speech in the very places that Americans talk today and gather, particularly during COVID, especially during COVID, I think that's really problematic.
00:31:20.000But ultimately, I think that the main way that we're going to be able to prevent that from happening in the future is if we do two things.
00:31:26.000Number one, we have to elect lawmakers to office, whatever party, who are committed to openness and freedom of speech and not corporations.
00:31:34.000And number two, they need to not be committed to it in rhetoric, but actually do it and have it be passed and signed by a president.
00:31:41.000Now, in both parties, we see these big tech companies really electing their own puppet lawmakers, and that includes a lot of Republicans.
00:31:51.000So the problem is a bipartisan problem.
00:31:54.000And I think it requires a bipartisan solution.
00:32:12.000But I mean, is there any legal accountability path here?
00:32:18.000It just seems like most of these lawsuits fail.
00:32:21.000Well, they do fail, and I've filed several of them.
00:32:24.000So the challenges that have failed have include Prager University claiming that YouTube is a public forum.
00:32:31.000I've sued Twitter not over freedom of speech per se, but violating its own terms of service.
00:32:36.000So using a contract theory, and the court shut that down in California on the basis of Communications Decency Act, Section 230.
00:32:44.000Right now, I think the wrong interpretation of Communications Decency Act, Section 230, which is a minor little statute 1996, never meant to be a total block of liability to these companies, it is barring almost every type of lawsuit.
00:33:00.000And I mentioned the lawsuit that I just filed and we just got a negative ruling on.
00:33:04.000I thought that was a case that definitely should have proceeded, and we may see it proceed ultimately after we appeal.
00:33:10.000There, you know, the question is whether the government can collude with private entities to suppress your civil right, that is to speak freely about an election.
00:33:21.000That's protected First Amendment activity.
00:33:24.000And certainly where a company on its own has rules and it has its own rules and it can get away with under Communications Decency Act censoring you.
00:33:32.000That doesn't mean the government can do that.
00:33:34.000And the government can do that using the tool of big tech censors.