00:00:00.000Hey everybody, Tan the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:00:01.000It is my conversation from Dream City Church at Freedom Night in America, brought to you by TPUSA Faith at tpusafaith.com with one of my favorite people, Dr. Miriam Grossman.
00:01:15.000He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:01:22.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:34.000Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.
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00:02:13.000I'll tell you that story later once it's completed.
00:02:17.000But I have been going to college campuses, as you know, for 11 years and following, especially the last couple of years, this trans movement.
00:02:27.000And we were told that, you know, it's just for adults, not a big deal.
00:02:32.000And now we see the reality that it is institutionalized in our schools, in our medical practice.
00:02:38.000We see families now being bombarded with this idea that all of a sudden your son is your daughter and your daughter is your son.
00:02:55.000And when one of these topics comes up, especially one that is pushed so aggressively and ferociously, I want to make sure that I can learn from the best possible people out there.
00:03:05.000And this is a topic that impacts so many different things.
00:03:14.000It impacts the bond that you have between your child.
00:03:17.000It impacts whether or not we are going to defend children from the predators that are going after them to try and castrate them.
00:03:25.000And there is one individual that I came across.
00:03:27.000She came on my show, and I told our team, I said, she's spectacular.
00:03:32.000And she's different because unlike a lot of these wacky people that go on TV that talk about the trans issue, she's actually a doctor, not like a Jill Biden doctor, like actually a doctor.
00:03:46.000And she's a child psychiatrist who's been in the room.
00:03:51.000When a 14-year-old says, I'm a boy now, when a family comes in panic and says, we've been to three different specialists and they say my son has to now go on hormone blockers, cross-sex hormones, and potentially go for surgery.
00:04:06.000And she is a person of courage, of incredible clarity.
00:04:11.000Her book, Lost in Transnation, that's why I have my hands full here.
00:04:13.000So I want to make sure I promote the book, is I'm almost done with it.
00:04:18.000It is the prominent book, the premier book, where you, if you want to get the download of exactly how sinister and evil it is, this is the book.
00:04:27.000And I'm just thrilled that she's here tonight.
00:04:29.000We're going to dialogue for quite some time.
00:04:31.000I don't know if we're going to have time to get to questions because there's so much to cover.
00:04:35.000And this will motivate you for next year.
00:04:39.000I want you guys to help join us in this mission: that we have to shut down every gender-affirming care clinic in Arizona, and we've got to get them all shut down.
00:06:26.000Those are the two choices, male or female.
00:06:30.000That is permanent, that is never going to change.
00:06:35.000So that is the beginning of everything.
00:06:38.000And that's what I always want people to keep in mind as they're listening to this whole, how should I call it, a very dark chapter in medicine.
00:07:03.000Hermaphrodites is the old term that was used for very, very rare individuals that at the time they're born, they have ambiguous genitalia, and it's impossible to say for sure if they are male or female.
00:07:21.000So they used to be called hermaphrodites.
00:07:31.000Dr. Money became interested in these babies and how they should be raised.
00:07:38.000Because when a child is born, back then, no ultrasounds, obviously, it was really at birth then, that one of these kids was born, and the doctors didn't know if it was a boy or a girl for sure.
00:07:53.000It was a medical emergency, and it was a family crisis.
00:08:21.000And he used the word gender for the very first time to apply to humans.
00:08:28.000Because before that, gender was a grammatical term that was used, you know, in French and Spanish, right, in many languages, nouns are either feminine or masculine.
00:08:43.000And that's how the word gender was originally used.
00:08:47.000John Money came along, he took that word and he applied it to humans.
00:08:53.000And he said that gender is how a person feels about whether they are male or female, as opposed to their biology.
00:09:40.000Okay, so he proposed that we are all born gender neutral, and that meant that a boy had the potential of living his life as a girl, and vice versa, all depending on the first three years of life how they would be influenced by their environment.
00:10:12.000So that typically masculine traits like, you know, preferring rough and tumble play and, I don't know, trucks and, you know, girls liking makeup and dolls.
00:10:26.000And he said that's all a social construction.
00:10:30.000It was all put on this neutral infant when he or she was born.
00:10:38.000Now, there's not much really that he could do with it because how do you prove something like that?
00:10:46.000But he was a very eminent, respected psychologist at Johns Hopkins, and he opened a clinic for these kids who were ambiguous, their genitalia was ambiguous, and he ran the team that would endocrinologists and surgeons decide how to help these kids.
00:11:09.000What happened is that a family appeared in his office one day, a family by the name of Reimer, and they came from Winnipeg, Canada, a blue-collar family, young 20, 21 years old with parents.
00:11:27.000And they had gone through a terrible tragedy in which they gave birth to twin boys.
00:11:36.000They took the kids to be circumcised at eight months, and the first boy that they brought in for the circumcision, the equipment had a malfunction, and the penis was burnt off.
00:11:52.000The boy's penis was burnt off at the age of eight months.
00:11:57.000The other boy, his twin, did not go through the procedure, obviously.
00:12:12.000And they got various advice, but in general, no one really was sure about what to tell them.
00:12:19.000They, one day, were watching television, this was in the 60s, and they see John Money on there, Professor John Money, speaking, sophisticated, you know, well-spoken, sounds completely reliable, a medical authority.
00:12:40.000And he says that a boy can be successfully raised as a girl as long as the process starts early enough.
00:12:56.000And they immediately arranged to take their twins down to Baltimore and go to Johns Hopkins and see Dr. Money.
00:13:06.000They thought that he was the answer to their prayers.
00:13:11.000The truth was that they were the answer to his prayers because he was looking to, he was looking for fame, he was looking for recognition, and he wanted to prove his gender theory was correct.
00:13:27.000And look who shows up on his doorstep.
00:13:34.000These identical twins raised in the same environment, but one, he was going to advise the parents, to raise the one who went through the accident as a girl.
00:13:47.000And therefore, he had the potential here, John Money, of finding a proof of concept, let's call it, of his theory that a girl, a boy, now these are normal boys.
00:14:01.000These are not kids who are hermaphrodites or intersex or anything.
00:15:30.000We'd be here all day talking about it.
00:15:33.000I'll just shorten this by saying that John Money began to report this experiment as a great success when the twins were about six years old.
00:15:44.000And he went out publicly, he wrote papers, he gave speeches, it was reported in the lay press as well, not just the professional associations, and he claimed that this girl, Brenda, was thriving.
00:16:35.000Brenda was so masculine in terms of, and I'll say her, I don't know what pronoun to use, but in terms of Brenda's interests and what she preferred, the toys and the activities and what she wanted, the outfits that she wanted to wear.
00:17:07.000She didn't have any friends, but the kids at school called her Cave Woman because her mannerisms and the way that she walked were so masculine.
00:19:40.000He adopted his wife's three children, and it did sound for a while as if this was going to have a happy ending.
00:19:48.000However, these boys were so damaged, apart from the fact that they were used for this experiment, Every time they went down to see John Money, he was sexually abusing them.
00:20:09.000And I want to just interject for a second.
00:20:12.000John Money is considered to be a hero in every one of your taxpayer-funded universities.
00:20:18.000He is the godfather of this entire transgender craze.
00:20:23.000And I want, that story is so important for you to know because we are living through a consecutive multi-decade lie where even he was not able to prove his hypothesis with the perfect set.
00:20:40.000And so everything we're living through right now is a byproduct of this one individual that needs to become a household name, where the idea of gender came from him, the concept of transgender.
00:20:52.000And he was, as you say, a monster and vile, didn't care about the truth, didn't care about children.
00:20:59.000And then Dr. Grossman talked about how, because he was so, quote, well-respected, he started a cottage industry of gender and transgender care that has now completely gone out of control.
00:22:01.000He continued to report the experiment a huge success.
00:22:06.000And so what happened is that in all these fields of medicine and social sciences, psychology, sociology, you know, you name it, his idea that there was this thing called gender, which was completely separate from biology, it became canonized, let's say.
00:22:32.000It became, everyone accepted it as truth.
00:22:38.000And so it kind of evolved over the years and it entered into feminism and there was into the universities, into our sex education, which is where I discovered it.
00:22:54.000And it's basically why we are where we are right now.
00:22:59.000Now, another thing that I want to explain about John Money is that he had his own reasons for coming up with this theory that gender is separate from sex.
00:23:11.000His reason is because he himself was very uncomfortable with being a man.
00:23:19.000He had grown up in a farm in New Zealand, and his father was a raging, abusive alcoholic who used to beat him and beat his mother.
00:23:32.000John Money was a small, delicate boy, obviously very unlike his father.
00:23:42.000And in his child's mind, which is what children do, they think, well, if that's a man, I don't want to be a man.
00:23:52.000I want to be like my gentle mom and my aunt, who was also living in the same household.
00:24:00.000I don't want to be like this monster alcoholic father who kills animals, shoots birds in the garden, beats up his mother, beat up him.
00:24:11.000So John Money was very honest about it.
00:24:13.000He wrote in one of his books that he feels that his manhood, his male physicality, is vile.
00:24:23.000So these days, we would call that gender dysphoria.
00:24:26.000And so then, Dr. Grossman, talk then about how you came in contact with this and how now the entire scientific and medical community has been captured by this.
00:24:36.000This started as a social, this started as a contagion that John Money launched, and it is now at Phoenix Children's Hospital.
00:24:53.000And I want to hope, I just want to make this set in.
00:24:56.000If you go to a run-of-the-mill pediatrician here in Phoenix and your child says, as a daughter, I am now a boy or I am now a girl or vice versa, the standard care, thanks to John Money's original sin, is not watchful waiting, and we'll get into all of that, but it's medication, cross-sex hormones, testosterone, estrogen, and eventually surgery.
00:25:21.000So Dr. Grossman, talk about how you came across this and how captured our medical institutions have become.
00:25:27.000Okay, so I came across all this in 2008 when I was studying sex education, because I was a psychiatrist at UCLA and my patients there were UCLA students, and so many kids had an STD that I just couldn't.
00:25:46.000I couldn't understand what, especially the young women.
00:25:51.000I wanted to see what are kids being told about preserving their sexual health?
00:25:57.000So I started digging into what kids are told by Planned Parenthood and other organizations that get millions and millions of our tax dollars in order to create these curricula and lo and behold, I mean I discovered a lot about that, and that was that was another book that I wrote, but one of the things I discovered is this thing about gender and that kids were being told in a matter-of-fact way,
00:26:25.000not that this is a theory and that, you know maybe, maybe not.
00:26:30.000No, it's always presented with incredibly arrogant certainty, authority and these and it's simply not true.
00:26:42.000What I discovered in 2008 that kids were being told is this idea of gender being separate from one's physical body, and it's just.
00:26:52.000You know, there are people, it's a normal variant when individuals do not feel comfortable with their sex, and when that happens, then their bodies have to be brought into alignment with their feelings and I just thought what the heck We are telling kids that.
00:27:17.000Kids who need stability in terms of their identity.
00:27:22.000Kids who need to hear the truth about biology and about development.
00:27:36.000I discovered to what degree the medical organizations, including my own American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, have been taken over.
00:27:51.000You know, you were mentioning to me earlier that a lot of people think it's like a conspiracy theory to suggest that an organization like the American Academy of Pediatrics, 67,000 members, has been taken over by radical gender ideology.
00:28:11.000I'll tell you exactly how that can be.
00:28:14.000The way it happens is that you have a small number of activist doctors and they have a certain agenda that they wish to steamroll through without discussion, without debate, without hearing from rank and file members of the organization.
00:28:43.000So the way that these medical organizations are structured is that if, say, for example, the American Academy of Pediatrics is going to come out with a policy statement, you know, saying that sex is assigned at birth and there's people who are cisgender, there's people who are non-binary and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
00:29:03.000How does that happen, such a policy statement?
00:29:07.000Well, in the American Academy of Pediatrics, it actually happened because there was one person, one activist pediatrician, who wrote these guidelines in 2018.
00:29:22.000They were the most radical, everything that you hear, everything that your kids hear, all the jargon, all the cisgender and non-binary and puberty blockers are completely reversible and we're just giving kids the time to think and these are just all normal variants.
00:29:44.000All of that stuff was written by one pediatrician by the name of Jason Rafferty.
00:29:52.000Jason Rafferty was a young guy, well he's still a young guy, but he was at that time, I think he was still in training to become a child psychiatrist.
00:30:03.000He's a pediatrician and he's a child psychiatrist.
00:30:28.000So what now is the, I hate to use the word normal, but standard care for, let's say, right here in Phoenix, 15-year-old gets brought in by their parents.
00:34:11.000Every one of these individuals have untreated, undiagnosed, or ignored underlying mental health issues that get cast aside and instead they go straight to interventions based on a majority do have comorbid psychiatric conditions.
00:34:32.000Not every single, but a majority for sure have long-standing anxiety, depression.
00:34:43.000They may be on the autism spectrum, which places a child at increased risk to be attracted to this cult, let's call it, very similar to a cult.
00:34:56.000So if your kid is on the autism spectrum, you need to know that your kid is more vulnerable to this.
00:35:06.000But, Oh, so they have comorbid conditions, and what happens is they walk into the pediatrician's office, and you know, what the pediatricians do these days, as I'm sure you're aware, when your kid reaches puberty or just before, you know, they have this thing where they ask the parent to leave.
00:35:28.000You haven't, you're no, I haven't dealt with that.
00:35:30.000But should the parent, how should parents deal with that?
00:35:34.000Well, first of all, I would say you have to vet your pediatrician.
00:35:38.000I mean, you have to find out your pediatrician's position regarding this stuff.
00:35:43.000And if you haven't, or if your p well, if your pediatrician's position is not what it should be, then you don't want to have to use that pediatrician.
00:35:57.000Now, some people are stuck, they're in an HMO, whatever it may be, they may not have a choice, but you can refuse to leave that room.
00:36:04.000Because when you leave, what the pediatrician is asking, first of all, they're asking, do you have sex?
00:36:11.000If you have sex, do you have sex with boys, girls, or both?
00:36:21.000Do you feel comfortable being a boy, comfortable being a girl?
00:36:24.000And they're going in this direction of the whole gender issue.
00:36:34.000And they may not, you know, if your child says, well, I'm going to tell you this, but I don't want you telling my mom and dad, well, they may very well not tell you about it.
00:36:47.000So, you know, there's a wedge that is placed, and this happens at school, obviously, as well.
00:36:53.000This is a movement that is anti-nuclear family.
00:36:59.000And they place a wedge between parents and children at a time that the kids need their parents more than anybody else.
00:37:14.000But I think what you were getting at, Charlie, was that when these kids are put on the assembly line and they are told that you can pick a new name and new pronouns and everyone's going to honor that and you can use the boys' restroom and you can do all these things as if you're a boy,
00:37:38.000their mental health issues end up being pushed to the side and ignored.
00:37:46.000And these are the very issues that in most cases are the cause of their gender confusion.
00:37:54.000Now, Dr. Grossman, I want you to talk about watchful waiting.
00:37:58.000You make the contention that puberty is not the problem.
00:38:05.000They want to give puberty blockers to these children when your research, your experience, and also just practical knowledge and common sense is that some of these individuals might grow out of or break out of this problem.
00:38:20.000I want you to understand how evil this is.
00:38:22.000We are doing irreversible damage, mass sterilization for kids that are engaging in a fad, mass sterilization campaign.
00:38:32.000When we used to have a way to handle this, Dr. Grossman, which was watchful waiting.
00:39:06.000So yeah, the point is that, you know, we've known for decades in psychiatry that there were very rare individuals whose experience of themselves is that they are in the wrong body.
00:39:21.000And the approach was always, at least with the children, you know, let me just tell you this.
00:39:28.00020 years ago, there were only three clinics to help families that had kids like this who were struggling.
00:39:40.000Not three clinics in the U.S., three clinics in the entire world.
00:40:07.000So 20 years ago, there was not even one clinic in the U.S.
00:40:12.000The first clinic in the U.S. was in Boston in 2007.
00:40:16.000So what was found with those kids was that if, so that's watchful waiting means that you, you know, you give the child emotional support.
00:40:29.000You might say to the child, well, yes, you're a boy who feels like a girl, but you are still a boy.
00:40:38.000And we're going to help you with those feelings.
00:40:40.000And maybe we're going to allow you occasionally at home to wear a dress, to wear a princess outfit.
00:40:49.000And you kind of help the family through those years.
00:40:54.000And if these kids have the opportunity to go through normal puberty, the vast majority of them will outgrow this unhappiness with their bodies.
00:41:07.000Many of them are gay and lesbian, but they no longer want to be in a different body.
00:41:12.000But that is because they went through puberty.
00:41:21.000It is the most important period of development that we go through, aside from development in the womb.
00:41:33.000And so we need to go through puberty to become an adult.
00:41:37.000Puberty is not only about changing, you know, developing secondary sex characteristics such as facial hair and lowered voice and breasts and fat redistribution.
00:41:52.000But a lot of what's going on in puberty, we don't see.
00:41:55.000The brain, the brain, there's an explosion of development in the brain.
00:42:02.000Now, could that possibly be related to the fact that when people reach young adulthood, they realize like, hey, you know what, I'm actually okay with my body.
00:42:12.000Because they've been permitted to go through these surges of hormones, of estrogen and testosterone.
00:42:20.000Those hormones are not just going to the sexual organs.
00:42:29.000They're affecting the cardiac system, the lungs, the liver, and the brain.
00:42:34.000Okay, there's an incredible, it's a, what was that show called, in which those houses would be like re, an extreme re-over, what was it called?
00:42:59.000And what we're doing is we're putting these kids on puberty sometimes as early as eight or nine years old.
00:43:07.000Because all these organizations have come out and said that at the very first sign of puberty, which in some kids is early, we need to stop that puberty because it's the wrong puberty.
00:43:27.000So, Dr. Grossman, I think it's important for people to understand that right now, the United Kingdom just came out and they said no more puberty blockers for children.
00:43:40.000And we were not one to applaud the British universal health care system.
00:43:47.000Europe is retreating from this right now.
00:43:50.000Joe Biden and Admiral Levine have come out and they have said that child access to hormones, to cross-sex hormones, to testosterone, estrogen, Joe Biden said it's basically a sin if you do not allow children access to these pharmacological interventions.
00:45:01.000Okay, so she took a few years and had a big team of people do this study, and she came out with her conclusions that said we have no evidence that these medical interventions in kids, and even not only medical interventions, the social, the name and pronoun thing, there's no evidence that in the long term these help.
00:45:30.000To the contrary, the kids that are socially transitioned and they're allowed to, you know, we do the pronouns and the names and all the rest of it, they are much more likely than the peers that are not socially transitioned to go ahead with being medicalized.
00:45:47.000So they're being put on a path toward harm.
00:45:52.000And so then what is pushing these people?
00:45:56.000This is not supported by the majority of Americans.
00:46:30.000Well, now you're getting into sort of macro question.
00:46:34.000I generally deal mostly with the micro, which is the family, the child, what's happening in the organizations, the macro question of, you know, what is behind this?
00:46:46.000So, you know, first of all, the money.
00:46:50.000Let's not forget about all the money that's behind it.
00:46:53.000So every child who's medicalized, who's put on puberty blockers, which almost always is followed by cross-sex hormones, is worth a million dollars because it's lifelong.
00:47:06.000You're put on these cross-sex hormones, estrogen or testosterone, you have to stay on them your whole life.
00:47:14.000So I'm told that's going to be about a million dollars per child.
00:47:19.000And that's to say nothing of all the surgeries.
00:47:48.000So you're creating a population of consumers of these technological interventions.
00:47:57.000Now then there are also people who think that as humans we are going to evolve beyond humanity, humanity 2.0, and we are going to defy biology.
00:48:15.000We are going to enter a world in which we're not limited by our biology.
00:48:29.000There's somebody who's working at creating robots in which you download a person's all their experiences, the way that what they've been through, their beliefs, the way that they talk, the way that they act.
00:51:47.000So a good part of my book is about this, but I will tell you that there's a lot you can do to inoculate your family against this.
00:51:58.000And you want to start as early as possible.
00:52:01.000If you have teenagers, you can still, obviously, you're going to want to do this as well.
00:52:06.000But if you have younger children, you want them to understand that they were a boy or a girl from the very first moment that they were created on this earth.
00:52:24.000And you want them to hear that a lot so that when they do eventually hear that phrase, sex assigned at birth, your kid is going to go like, huh?
00:52:41.000So they begin to be able to recognize the lies and the indoctrination.
00:52:46.000The other thing, other things that you can do to even young children is to remind them that it's wonderful to be a boy or a girl, and there's also many ways of being a boy or a girl.
00:53:01.000There isn't just one way of being a girl.
00:53:04.000And there are girls that are more what we would call masculine or whatever.
00:53:33.000So you want early on to tell kids that there's many different ways of being a girl or a boy, and that the way that they are is 100% fine.
00:53:47.000And they shouldn't believe what anyone says.
00:53:54.000Now, you want your kids, and this is not only true for gender, but for many other subjects, obviously, to be aware that, unfortunately, there's a lot of stuff out there in the world, including maybe in their classroom, that they can't 100% accept.
00:56:02.000And you want to be loving and not necessarily loving in a way that's accepting, oh, I'm going to immediately call you by a new name and new pronouns.
00:56:26.000You understand that this is what they want right now, but you're not going to give them, just like in many other ways, you don't give them everything they want.
00:56:37.000This is another area that, you know, your father and I, your mom and I, we need to do a lot of research.
00:56:48.000We're going to end up knowing so much about this subject, but right now, it's just a time to have conversations.
00:56:57.000You may not like what I have to say about this, but it's possible in a family to have disagreements about big things and to remain loving and supportive, even with those disagreements.
00:57:15.000I mean, look, you can say, my sister's a big Democrat.
00:58:34.000They are building halfway homes, basically.
00:58:37.000Well, that's what their frame does, which is that if you believe that your parents are not accepting what you say that you are, they have places where these 12, 13, and 14-year-olds.
00:58:49.000Then they can go leave the state and get surgical interventions.
00:58:53.000It's a very dark time that we're living in.
00:58:57.000It's a dangerous time, but there is so much that you can do.
00:59:00.000And you want to, look, no relationship is perfect, but you want, parents have to walk this tightrope if they have a child who's made this announcement.
00:59:13.000And they want, the tightrope is: I'm loving you, I'm supportive of you, you're everything to me, but I'm not letting go of reality.
01:02:24.000And so what I explain throughout my book, and I have this in the book as well, is that the whole ideology, this belief system of gender, is all based on falsehood, on Sheker.
01:03:18.000I just want to say, Dr. Grossman, your work in the trenches, I hope you all understand they attack Dr. Grossman every single day because doctors that speak out, they target.
01:03:29.000She's been in the room with these parents.
01:03:31.000She's been in the room with these children.
01:03:33.000And my prayer is that we'll have hundreds and thousands of doctors as courageous as Dr. Grossman that will stand up and speak out.