The Charlie Kirk Show - A Reformation for Islam? with Dr. Zuhdi Jasser

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, today in the Charlie Kirk Show Conversation with Dr. Zudi Jasser.

00:00:03.000 He's running for Congress here in Arizona.

00:00:05.000 He is a faithful Muslim and we talk about a reformation in Islam.

00:00:10.000 It's a very important conversation and he has a book out called A Battle for the Soul of Islam.

00:00:15.000 Super interesting.

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00:00:33.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:34.000 Here we go.

00:00:35.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

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00:01:17.000 Joining us is someone I've known for quite a while, Dr. Zudi Jasser.

00:01:20.000 It's great to be here, Charlie.

00:01:21.000 Thanks for having me.

00:01:22.000 Yeah, Dr. Jasser is running for Congress here in Arizona.

00:01:24.000 Your website's easy to remember.

00:01:26.000 It's the letter Z4AZ.com.

00:01:28.000 Yes, sir.

00:01:29.000 And you're looking, you're running as a Republican to unseat Greg Stanton, right?

00:01:34.000 Yep.

00:01:34.000 Former mayor of Phoenix.

00:01:35.000 So I'm really excited about that.

00:01:37.000 Tell us about that race.

00:01:38.000 Well, I think it's time for change.

00:01:38.000 Thank you.

00:01:40.000 Greg Stanton's been an empty suit.

00:01:41.000 He's been a rubber stamp for the Biden policies and has basically sat back as the border hemorrhages and ignores the effect on our citizens here in district with the crime rates, with the fentanyl infusion, ignored the fact that we need growth in our economy, has ignored the fact that most Americans in district really want to put bread on the table for their kids and family, and he has ignored the economic impacts on that.

00:02:06.000 And also health care, I can tell you as a physician practicing in district with a lot of patients.

00:02:11.000 Very well respected.

00:02:12.000 Thank you.

00:02:13.000 I can tell you that most of my patients are very concerned about access to health care.

00:02:18.000 Primary care takes three, four months to get into, and you're being bought out by private equity interests.

00:02:24.000 And really, the economy is so much worse from every aspect.

00:02:29.000 Free speech, ASU has had demonstrations that are anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, are just horrific.

00:02:36.000 Greg Stanton has said nothing but tweeted a few paragraphs about support of Israel.

00:02:41.000 Really, I think it's time for change.

00:02:42.000 I'm the antidote to the radical Ilhan Omars and Rashida Tlabes.

00:02:46.000 And I think my story about how my family came here legally, got political asylum, and were able to raise me in a small town in Wisconsin where I learned to have a personal relationship with God and separate myself from the Islamist movements and the dictatorships and be able to have a freedom that you just could not have anywhere else.

00:03:06.000 And I'd like to give back to my district, if back to my state here in Arizona.

00:03:09.000 I've been here for 26 years after serving in the Navy.

00:03:12.000 And I think it's time for change.

00:03:14.000 You're an American patriot, and we got to know each other through Foster Freeze.

00:03:17.000 Yes.

00:03:18.000 May he rest in peace.

00:03:20.000 You were one of Foster's favorite people.

00:03:22.000 He, you know, he did things for my family, for our foundation, the American Islamic Forum for Democracy that put us on the map.

00:03:22.000 Thank you.

00:03:31.000 He realized that America was and is a shining beacon on the hill for those who want to be free, regardless of faith identity.

00:03:39.000 You know, he did it as an evangelical Christian.

00:03:41.000 He told me, Zudi, I hope you find Jesus, but I'm going to help you help us be safer as Americans.

00:03:47.000 And he believed in that.

00:03:49.000 He did.

00:03:50.000 And he also loved that you were trying to have a reformation in Islam.

00:03:56.000 Is that fair to say?

00:03:57.000 To summarize some of your work.

00:03:59.000 And so one of the reasons, Zudi, I wanted to have you on is obviously help out your candidacy.

00:04:02.000 I'm all in.

00:04:03.000 Any way I can help.

00:04:04.000 Thank you.

00:04:04.000 Okay.

00:04:05.000 And I've known you for a long time.

00:04:06.000 You're a patriot.

00:04:07.000 You're so honest and humble and ethical.

00:04:10.000 But also, a lot of people have questions about Islam.

00:04:12.000 And you are a faithful Muslim, but you approach it in a way where you believe that Islam needs a reformation.

00:04:20.000 And you've wrote a whole book on this that Mark Levin and many others endorsed, which is called A Battle for the Soul of Islam.

00:04:26.000 So this is where I want to spend some of our time.

00:04:28.000 But you also want to do some disclaimers before we get into that, right?

00:04:31.000 Yeah, and listen, you know, I'm running for a seat to represent all citizens in our district, regardless of faith.

00:04:38.000 And my comments about particular faith and reformation are based on my foundational work and not based on representation in Congress.

00:04:46.000 So I think there's no faith test to run for Congress.

00:04:49.000 But I do think that obviously what I'm talking about is a political movement that masquerades as a faith that needs reform.

00:04:57.000 And happy to talk about solar.

00:04:58.000 So what do you mean by that?

00:04:59.000 A political movement that masquerades as a faith?

00:05:01.000 So if you look at the foundations of America, 1,789 years after Jesus' ministry, there was finally a country created that separated, that prevented the establishment of a church through government, a government of a theocracy, if you will.

00:05:17.000 And that Islam has not gone through. 0.98

00:05:19.000 It has not gone through a separation of mosque and state and an enlightenment process.

00:05:24.000 So Islam as a faith is 1,445 years old, and it still has to go through a process in which it rejects tribalism, rejects feudalism, in which the clerics run government, the clerics dominate thought and prevent critical thinking. 0.61

00:05:41.000 And right now, of the 56 Muslim-majority countries, almost every one of them is a dictatorship, is a military autocracy in which you can't ask the tough questions, which is why, Charlie, after 9-11, we had our first rally against terrorism in the country here in Patriot Square in downtown Phoenix, which is why I've been focused just running into the fire, if you were, towards the fire of radical Islam, because only Muslims can fix this problem. 1.00

00:06:10.000 And just like the silent Germans that sat back and watched the Nazis not only take over Germany, but slaughter Jews in a Holocaust, so many Muslims are silent, and we're the only ones that can fix this problem until we realize that we have to reject and begin to displace the leadership, not only in countries that are petrol trillion dollars rich, that are filling the bandwidth of discussion of Islam, but also in our mosques in this country where we're free to have this debate. 0.60

00:06:38.000 They're actually using the woke ideas.

00:06:41.000 I was talking about wokeism before it was a thing in 2005 and 10 saying, listen, Islamophobia is a contrived idea. 0.74

00:06:49.000 It doesn't exist.

00:06:51.000 There might be some bigotry against Muslims, but Islamophobia is a term the Gulf states created in order to prevent criticism against Islam, in order to invoke blasphemy laws.

00:07:03.000 And we need to reform these things and do what the West did in its 30 years war.

00:07:08.000 And it's not going to be bloodless.

00:07:09.000 It's going to be bloody.

00:07:10.000 We've seen with revolutions in the Middle East.

00:07:12.000 You see the women's movement in Iran.

00:07:15.000 There is hope out there, but we just have to be focused.

00:07:18.000 So I have several questions, and I just want to say I'm cheering for you.

00:07:22.000 And so if I were to say, Zudi, that it's concerning to me that a majority of Muslims in America, according to a poll, said that they supported Hamas' attack on Israel, what would drive that?

00:07:37.000 Let's pretend the poll is accurate.

00:07:39.000 I'm not sure if it is, 57%.

00:07:41.000 How do we get to a place like that?

00:07:43.000 I'm not going to give you any excuses.

00:07:45.000 It's moral decay.

00:07:47.000 Why do you see on campuses folks that are obviously Western, blonde-haired, blue-eyed, waving flags of the Palestinian flag that sometimes actually it's the Italian flag because they can't tell the difference?

00:07:59.000 And they think they're cheering on Palestine and they have no idea where it is on a map, and yet they're saying things that are horrifically anti-Semitic.

00:08:06.000 So part of it is ignorance.

00:08:09.000 Part of it is, I think, the primary thing is moral decay.

00:08:12.000 They have worn their faith as an ornament on their sleeves, but not really understood and enacted a moral agency.

00:08:21.000 So this is why as I talk to Muslims in our Muslim reform movement around the world and the movements for reform, they're saying, you know what?

00:08:30.000 Stop treating Muslims like children. 1.00

00:08:33.000 Stop giving them a pass on moral agency.

00:08:37.000 Just because you're occupied by Hamas, not by Israel, but if they're occupied, it's by Hamas in Gaza.

00:08:45.000 And if they're occupied and in an open-air prison, that doesn't have them lose moral agency where they can justify acting even worse than animals, where they behead babies and rape women and all these things that are being ignored by even the Rashida Tlaibs and Ilhan Omars. 0.51

00:09:01.000 It's beyond simply hate speech.

00:09:03.000 This is moral decay, number one.

00:09:05.000 Number two, the bigger reason is just like wokeism has finally Americans are starting to understand the battle I've been trying to have where we see the Chinese Communist Party, we see Qatar and all these trillion-dollar petro interests funding our universities, funding Middle East institutes that are horrifically anti-Semitic, anti-American, and don't care about morality.

00:09:30.000 So when Hamas attacks and targets by their manual, the manual of the militants said they needed to target a festival, target schools, target civilians and kibbutzes. 0.78

00:09:42.000 This was not an act of war, it was an act of genocide. 0.57

00:09:46.000 It was a pogrom against the Jews.

00:09:48.000 And Muslims who reject that are simply part of the propaganda arm. 0.74

00:09:53.000 They're not, I think, pious Muslims who understand Islam from the way I want to see it in a reform way. 1.00

00:10:01.000 And we need to, I think, push back and not have a bigotry of low expectations where, okay, if you're a Muslim, how do you not speak out against what Hamas did?

00:10:10.000 How do you then defer that and use some type of moral equivalency, which I think is corrupt?

00:10:15.000 It's a corruption.

00:10:17.000 The book is A Battle for the Soul of Islam by Dr. Zudi Jasser, also running for Congress here in the great state of Arizona.

00:10:25.000 In fact, we're in the district.

00:10:26.000 Yes.

00:10:27.000 Z4AZ.com, right?

00:10:29.000 Yes.

00:10:29.000 And I want to get into that because I think people have some opinions on Islam, of what they believe it is.

00:10:37.000 And some of it might be true, some of it might not be true.

00:10:39.000 So I want to dive into that.

00:10:42.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:11:44.000 So, Dr. Jasser, can you just repeat what you were saying?

00:11:46.000 You were saying that one of your goals is decoupling the state from Islam. 1.00

00:11:52.000 Is that correct?

00:11:53.000 Only way, and this is why I think if you look at all the offensive ideas into our country that's destroying universities and others, we need an offense.

00:11:53.000 Absolutely.

00:12:00.000 And I've talked about it and we formed a coalition called the Clarity Coalition, C-L-A-R-I-T-Y, which is Champions for Liberty Against the Reality of Islamist tyranny. 0.99

00:12:10.000 And that includes not only Muslim organizations but think tanks like the Middle East Forum, Hudson Institute, and so many others that are working with us to say, you know what, the problem is political Islam. 0.89

00:12:21.000 The problem is any Islamic state, not just ISIS, but the Islamic Republic of Iran, Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, even though it's run by a tribe, is basically an Islamic state with Sharia law. 0.80

00:12:33.000 Any state that uses Sharia islamic is the Arabic word for Islamic jurisprudence.

00:12:40.000 So just like there's canonic law and Talmudic law, Islamic law is Sharia.

00:12:45.000 And there are states across the world with hundreds of millions of people living under Sharia law that mandates the way women dress, it mandates the killing of homosexuals, it mandates the forced punishment and brutal punishment for crimes and things that is just from medieval times. 0.79

00:13:04.000 So if I were to say, Zudi, and if I is this an unfair summary, that in most Islamic circles in the Middle East, if they want to bring forth Sharia law, they believe in those things. 0.77

00:13:17.000 Yeah.

00:13:18.000 I don't want to be unfair to those are pupils that say that 84%, for example, of Egyptians, 90% of Pakistanis think if somebody leaves Islam, they should be killed.

00:13:29.000 And they see that as sedition, as treason, because they have an Islamic state.

00:13:34.000 So all of these things, jihad, what is jihad?

00:13:37.000 Jihad is what the military of an Islamic state undergoes when it goes into battle.

00:13:43.000 So Turkey, a so-called NATO ally, when it went into cross the border of Syria only a few years ago, was slaughtering Kurds and posting video that they were enacting a jihad.

00:13:53.000 So even a so-called democracy will use jihad.

00:13:57.000 So the way to fight that is to say, you know what?

00:14:01.000 For example, Indonesia had a scholar that we had worked with who was the former president of Indonesia, and he said, we need to create an Islam and a reform that people have a state of Islam in their heart, but they reject the concept of the Islamic State or the idea of the Islamic State.

00:14:18.000 So you can have a personal relationship with God.

00:14:20.000 In Israel, for example, Muslims have Sharia courts for family law, but it's just for personal pietistic law and not for state law, obviously, in a Jewish state.

00:14:31.000 So this is the issue: you can't reform Islam unless you first say, you know what, just like America's Constitution is under God, the word Christian is not in our Constitution, even though we're a Judeo-Christian country for a reason. 0.88

00:14:45.000 They didn't want to debate about the nuances of Christianity.

00:14:48.000 And Islamic Reformation, I think, needs to embody some of those things that our founding fathers taught us.

00:14:52.000 So I guess the devil's advocate would be, Zudi, that the reason why they're inseparable is because that is what the Hadith or what later Islamic theology would mandate.

00:15:03.000 And so how would you respond to that?

00:15:06.000 Yeah, so the Islamic intellectual institutions, the educational institutions, the mosques have all perpetuated their power by saying that if you look in Egypt, for example, Al-Azhar, which is supposedly the seat of Sunni thought in the planet in Egypt, in addition to Saudi Arabia, there's a battle there, but they put forth the idea that they influence LCC. 0.81

00:15:33.000 They influence the Egyptian government by telling them what is and what is not Islamic. 0.73

00:15:37.000 So even though that's supposedly a secular government, they have Sharia law instituted there.

00:15:43.000 So ultimately, that debate of separation has to evolve in the West.

00:15:49.000 It's not going to happen in Middle Eastern countries. 0.99

00:15:52.000 Did the teachings of Muhammad directly mandate the creation of an Islamic State?

00:15:58.000 I don't know the answer to that.

00:15:59.000 The answer to that is actually yes, they do.

00:16:04.000 And that's to be fully honest.

00:16:06.000 But the bottom line is that the Prophet existed in the 7th century.

00:16:10.000 There was no government in the planet that separated.

00:16:13.000 So the Prophet not only was a messenger of God to Muslims, but he was the head of a military and he was the head of state.

00:16:20.000 So he wore all three hats.

00:16:22.000 So to say that we can separate it based on his example is not possible.

00:16:26.000 However, just as Muslims use modern medical science, modern computer science, there's nothing in his tradition, I believe, in our reform. 0.95

00:16:34.000 Now, separate the hadith.

00:16:35.000 It's impossible to reform Islam if you use. 1.00

00:16:39.000 We used basically the Quran, which is the only what we believe to be the revealed word of God to Muslims.

00:16:45.000 In there, there's nothing that prohibits you from separating mosque and state and saying, you know, the Imams have nothing to do with government. 0.76

00:16:51.000 The state should have nothing to do with Islamic identity. 0.98

00:16:55.000 And if the Prophet didn't do it at that time, you don't have to do it later. 0.99

00:16:59.000 So if you have modern political science, you would reform and separate it.

00:17:02.000 Dr. Zudi Jasser, check out Z4AZ.com.

00:17:08.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:18:10.000 So Dr. Jasser, you were mentioning that in order for this to be possible, a reformation, you'd have to get back to the original Quran, not the later hadiths or commentary.

00:18:20.000 Can you explain to our audience what that all means?

00:18:22.000 Yeah, so Muslims believe the Quran is the Arabic, what we believe is the Arabic script that was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad.

00:18:28.000 Even the English translations, most of which is what you'll find online, are Saudi interpretations that, you know, my father did his own translation that is very different than what you read from the hate translations that come from Saudi Arabia.

00:18:40.000 And when I was on the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, we sat with the Saudis and the Brotherhood and others in the Middle East and tried to tell them, can you modify these translations?

00:18:50.000 Because they're creating a lot of hate.

00:18:52.000 But if you look, there's these volumes of hadith.

00:18:54.000 Hadith means discussions of the Prophet in Arabic.

00:18:57.000 It's like a catechism or the oral tradition.

00:19:00.000 It's almost like the oral tradition in Judaism.

00:19:03.000 But none of that is revealed.

00:19:05.000 Every page of the hadith, the earliest, was 70, 80 years after the Prophet Muhammad. 0.96

00:19:10.000 So even the ones that might be legit are found to be legitimate based on succession of transmission of people orally for generations.

00:19:19.000 So most of that is contrived.

00:19:21.000 There are hadith that the Hamas's Hamas's doctrine, their constitution of their horrific organization, says kill a Jew behind every stone.

00:19:31.000 That's taken from a hadith that I actually in 2004 signed a global petition to, and we started that to say, listen, that's a fake hadith.

00:19:42.000 It's illegitimate.

00:19:43.000 It's contrived. 0.99

00:19:44.000 There are hadiths that call for the killing of Jews. 1.00

00:19:47.000 I mean, not only killing of Jews, but killing of gays, to saying that women are fourth class, have a half the size of the brain of a man. 0.99

00:19:55.000 I mean, there's just horrific things written in the hadith. 0.96

00:19:58.000 There are a lot of efforts at reform to saying that, you know what, 70, 80% of the hadith is contrived by tribes all over the world that did so in order to create control within the faith and we should return back to scripture, almost like the Bible church movements did. 0.62

00:20:16.000 And many in the Protestant movement said, you know what, let's go back to the original scripture and not deal with too much of the sort of man-made part of the faith, especially in Islam.

00:20:26.000 How is that usually received?

00:20:29.000 I'm either viewed as a heretic or as an apostate.

00:20:34.000 There are websites that have attacked me and our work for that.

00:20:39.000 We're discarded as Quranists, if you will, which isn't true.

00:20:43.000 What does that mean?

00:20:44.000 A Quranist is someone who rejects the prophet's tradition, and that's not what I do. 1.00

00:20:48.000 My personal faith practice includes a lot of things that we wouldn't, Muslims would not know how to pray if it wasn't for the, you know, because there's no descriptions of the details of prayer in the Quran. 0.98

00:20:59.000 But at the end of the day, most of the radicalism is coming from there.

00:21:02.000 Now, there are passages like the fifth chapter in the Quran that we need to deal with.

00:21:07.000 What would that be?

00:21:08.000 It says, for example, the Saudi translation says in the fifth chapter, it says, do not take Jews and Christians as friends.

00:21:15.000 Now, that Arabic word is awliya, which actually says legal sponsors in our courts.

00:21:21.000 It has nothing to do with friends because there's other passages that say you may intermarry Jews and Christians.

00:21:26.000 You may marry them and they, you know, may be the mother of your children.

00:21:29.000 So at the end of the day, that can't be either God had a split personality and was giving mixed messages or they interpreted it wrong.

00:21:37.000 And most translations will show that the Saudis intentionally put in anti-Semitic, the passage said by most Muslims around the world the most is the opening passage.

00:21:48.000 And the Saudis have a footnote that says, you know, and the passage that says, do not be led astray.

00:21:54.000 And the Saudis add a footnote to their Quran that says, like the Jews and Christians. 0.79

00:21:59.000 And, you know, MBS is talking about removing some of that, et cetera, but they're not doing it from the pulpits.

00:22:05.000 It's not the theologians.

00:22:06.000 It's simply sort of political expediency.

00:22:09.000 Do you feel as if there is a growing appetite in Islam for reform?

00:22:15.000 I think so.

00:22:16.000 I think the more we see Hamas and ISIS of the world and al-Qaedas, they're going to keep coming back like a hydra unless Muslims really take ownership and, you know what, and become American first and Muslim second. 1.00

00:22:30.000 And that our personal possible absolutely.

00:22:32.000 That's what my book is about.

00:22:34.000 It's about the fact that my personal relationship with God will always be there.

00:22:38.000 It's part of my moral compass.

00:22:39.000 But at the end of the day, it's my country that gives me my freedom to practice, to be a businessman, to have a family, all these things.

00:22:47.000 Run for Congress.

00:22:48.000 They run for Congress, exactly.

00:22:49.000 And be an antidote to the Rashidah Tlaibs and Omar. 0.98

00:22:53.000 So Rashida Tlib and Elon Omar, you have the same faith, but you couldn't be more almost diametrically opposed.

00:23:00.000 Yeah, they're operatives of a political movement, a global movement, no different than Marxism, communism.

00:23:06.000 They're Islamists who will say whatever possible to advance the Islamist movement or the Palestinianist movement, if you will. 0.61

00:23:14.000 I'm an American first, a conservative who believes in conservative principles for our country based in foundational, our foundations of our founding fathers, our Constitution, and Bill of Rights.

00:23:25.000 So to me, that's where the debate is: is that every individual has a relationship with God.

00:23:31.000 They may not have a relationship.

00:23:32.000 But at the end of the day, what separates me from them is the Rashidah Tlabs, Ilhan Omars, the Council on American Islamic Relations, Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi.

00:23:44.000 These are large movements that are inspired by theocracy.

00:23:50.000 And I want to be, as an American, somebody that stands against all types of autocracy and theocracy because this country gives me more freedom than anywhere else in the world.

00:24:00.000 Are you implying with Rashida Talib and Elon Omar the Takiya? 0.92

00:24:04.000 Is that what it is?

00:24:05.000 Takiyah? 0.93

00:24:06.000 In T-A-K-I-Y-A, where you can lie to advance the faith? 0.55

00:24:11.000 Am I...

00:24:12.000 So Takiyah actually, and historically, is something that was within the faith where some Muslims pretended to be, for example, Sunni or Shia to avoid persecution.

00:24:21.000 Bottom line is that's one form of corruption where they lie, they dissimulate.

00:24:27.000 The Islamists were constantly dissimulating. 1.00

00:24:29.000 I've testified to Congress about this repeatedly, in that many times you'll see Muslims claim that they believe in the legal system of this country, but actually they're Islamists who will say one thing as a minority, and then you find when they're a majority in places like Dearborn or elsewhere, they invoke principles that are about things that are un-American, that are anti-American, because they have a majority. 0.98

00:24:55.000 And they can't distinguish between majoritocracy and true democracy, liberal democracy that defends minority rights.

00:25:04.000 And so with the mass amount of Elon Omars that have come in, I see that plural.

00:25:12.000 Does it bother you to see sometimes the lack of assimilation?

00:25:17.000 And where does that come from?

00:25:19.000 It comes from, I think, an intentional fear of America, a hate for the West.

00:25:25.000 Ilhan Omar, many times, I served on the USS El Paso, was a medical department head, joined my ship in the Mediterranean when they were on their way back from Somalia.

00:25:34.000 And I remember her a few years ago tweeting out on the anniversary of what she said was the greatest terror attack by Americans was on Somali soil.

00:25:44.000 And I'm like, oh, hold on a second.

00:25:46.000 I was there.

00:25:47.000 And this is, you know, my ship was there.

00:25:50.000 And that was not an act of terror.

00:25:52.000 You hate America.

00:25:53.000 And you shouldn't even be in Congress, let alone say that Americans are committing acts of terror. 0.59

00:25:58.000 You should be speaking out against Islamist terror like Hamas and ISIS, et cetera. 0.96

00:26:02.000 But yet their world view is an anti-American view.

00:26:07.000 Their world view as Islamists is one in which they seek Islamic domination, if you will. 0.89

00:26:13.000 And she's never spoken against that.

00:26:15.000 You know, her constituents should actually, I think, hold her accountable. 0.51

00:26:19.000 I can't believe they continue to put her back in office.

00:26:22.000 Do you think the constituents hold those views, too?

00:26:24.000 Gosh, it wouldn't make any sense.

00:26:27.000 But what does make sense, Charlie, and this is what I hope your viewers and listeners understand, is that there's this red-green axis, this axis between the neo-Marxists that we saw of the Black Lives Matter movement and Louis Farrakhan and other anti-Semites, along with the green, which is the Islamist across the world. 0.56

00:26:46.000 So the Qatars and the Irans are working with the Venezuelas and the Chinas of the world. 1.00

00:26:52.000 So you've got to believe that many of her constituents, if they're not Islamists, which are Muslims, then they're American to the anti-Americanism, the anti-Semitism of the far extreme progressive left.

00:27:02.000 Yeah.

00:27:03.000 And so the battle for the soul of Islam, you have a fair amount of debates where invited with Imams.

00:27:10.000 And you kind of feel like Martin Luther?

00:27:14.000 Well, different metaphors or analogies can, I'll let them say that about me posthumously, if you will.

00:27:22.000 But at the end of the day, even the Imam here in district in Tempe, Shukai Rod, I debated him.

00:27:27.000 The video is online.

00:27:28.000 You can see it.

00:27:30.000 He didn't want to do it again because he spent the whole time attacking me personally.

00:27:33.000 I spent the time basically saying these are the issues we need to reform in our faith that you're ignoring.

00:27:39.000 These are the issues that Americans would need to hear, not to feel threatened by your movement, but actually embrace you for religious freedom.

00:27:45.000 And he rejected that.

00:27:46.000 And I think time and time again, I did it in Columbus.

00:27:50.000 We debated them at Duke, in Notre Dame, and elsewhere, all across the country.

00:27:54.000 We've had debates with Imams, and every one of them are part of the, not everyone, 90% or more are part of what I call the Islamic establishment, which was, you know, I think if you look at the Trump movement, for example, it was about fighting the establishment.

00:28:09.000 No, that's right.

00:28:10.000 I've been fighting the establishment in my faith.

00:28:13.000 You know, there's things online written about me that say I was kicked out of mosques.

00:28:16.000 I've never been kicked out of one.

00:28:18.000 I will run into the burning building and take them on, but I have never been kicked out because they realize they can't do that in America.

00:28:27.000 Now, when we have our meetings in Europe and elsewhere, some of the women's, you know, female Imams that come in that have been targeted come in with security, with protection. 0.90

00:28:36.000 I didn't know females could become Imams.

00:28:38.000 I know. 1.00

00:28:38.000 That's why she needs protection. 1.00

00:28:39.000 The Imam in Germany that I know that's a woman comes with German police protecting her because she's attacked and has come near quite significant injury in the past.

00:28:50.000 So she's always protected, and I've not needed that, thank God.

00:28:54.000 So I'm sure you received the criticism, and I want you to just respond to it in one minute, that you're Americanizing Islam, that you're allowing the West to influence your religion. 0.83

00:29:05.000 I'm sure you've received that feedback.

00:29:07.000 How do you respond to that?

00:29:09.000 You know, listen, I'm running for office because I want to protect this country.

00:29:13.000 The faith can fix itself.

00:29:14.000 They should do that in their mosques. 0.89

00:29:17.000 I do think that if you're going to be free in this country, you need to reject ideas that are a threat to the security of this country.

00:29:23.000 So the slippery slope, the conveyor belt towards the ISIS is an al-Qaeda's. 0.93

00:29:27.000 I have a chapter in my book on Fort Hood.

00:29:30.000 How does a guy like Nidal Hassan end up with a resume like mine and then end up working for al-Qaeda?

00:29:35.000 At the end of the day, it's because he hated America, had a worldview that was al-Qaeda's worldview, and we need to defeat that sort of caliphism, if you will, to create the utopian sense of Islamic states in this corrupt, evil way. 0.96

00:29:51.000 So, yeah, I think ultimately it's not about Americanizing.

00:29:54.000 It's about getting the faith in the world.

00:29:56.000 I don't hold that view.

00:29:57.000 I'm just sure you receive that.

00:29:58.000 Oh, no, I know.

00:30:00.000 Yeah, I think ultimately it's not about Americanizing.

00:30:03.000 It's about getting it back to its root morality, its humility, its integrity.

00:30:09.000 Character is destiny.

00:30:10.000 So every American Muslim that believes they want their kids to be Muslim, I think, should ask the question: what are the principles they're teaching? 0.89

00:30:17.000 Are they accepting the propaganda of radical movements?

00:30:20.000 Are they speaking out about movements publicly like they do at their dinner table?

00:30:25.000 And that's the reality of my candidacy: that not just about faith, but about the economy, about the border, about health care.

00:30:33.000 I speak the truth on what I believe, whether it benefits my causes or hurts them.

00:30:39.000 Dr. Zudi Jasser, the book is A Battle for the Soul of Islam.

00:30:43.000 He's running for Congress, and he would be a great member of Congress.

00:30:45.000 Z4AZ.com.

00:30:49.000 Have you become a member of the Charlie Kirk exclusive yet?

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00:31:45.000 That is members.charlikirk.com.

00:31:50.000 The book is A Battle for the Soul of Islam.

00:31:53.000 Dr. Zudi Jasser, he's also running for Congress, Z4AZ.com.

00:31:57.000 Dr. Jasser, I'm sure you're receiving a lot of media requests right now because people have a lot of questions about what's going on in the Middle East.

00:32:04.000 How should we think from your perspective about what's happening with Israel and Gaza?

00:32:09.000 I think the first step is to decimate Hamas's leadership and defeat them militarily, just like it was when the Trump administration appropriately finally said, you know, let's get rid of ISIS first and then deal with the issues after. 0.57

00:32:21.000 Second, once Hamas is decimated, then the next step is to say, okay, so wait a minute, how many times does this hydro need to keep getting a head back before, you know, whether it's al-Qaeda, then ISIS, Hamas, al-Qaeda back, Hamas again, what are we going to do long term to protect our security?

00:32:39.000 Number one is to stop the hemorrhaging of the border here.

00:32:42.000 And that we've seen not only are there 160 people on the terror watch list that we don't know where they are but have come through the border, but Hamas is coming through and Hezbollah law and others.

00:32:53.000 Secondly, is we need a forward strategy.

00:32:56.000 We've been playing defense on the wokeism into our universities, into TikTok and all these other things, social media.

00:33:02.000 We need an offense.

00:33:04.000 Advance, we can't win this militarily.

00:33:06.000 Like you've said so wisely, so many times, we keep thinking we can nation build and send troops.

00:33:14.000 But we do need to have a we have it.

00:33:16.000 We need to have a dog in the fight, if you will, as far as the ideas that are being battled across the Middle East and across the world and represent our interests in the media, just like we did in the Cold War.

00:33:28.000 We didn't have to fire a bullet against the Soviets and they fell apart because we had Radio Free Europe, because we had the pushing of ideas.

00:33:35.000 And I can tell you, a quarter of the world's population is Muslim.

00:33:39.000 And the women's movement in Iran, the best anti-nuclear program in Iran would be for us to pump ideas and help them. 0.55

00:33:46.000 We don't need troops. 0.99

00:33:47.000 Just help them.

00:33:49.000 I think I know why, though, Doctor.

00:33:50.000 I mean, I don't want to be too sinister, but the American intel agencies and government are hesitant to reform Islam because I think theocratic Islam hates America as much as they do. 0.91

00:34:00.000 I mean, I hate to be that dark.

00:34:02.000 I'm so glad you asked that, Charlie, because, again, as a member of Congress, this is not about reforming a faith.

00:34:08.000 This is about advancing ideas of liberty.

00:34:11.000 It would be good for America.

00:34:12.000 Exactly.

00:34:13.000 And advancing within their society secular liberal democracy.

00:34:17.000 So this is why I'm cheering for you, Dr. Jasser.

00:34:19.000 I wanted to have you on.

00:34:20.000 The liberalization, I mean that in the best way.

00:34:23.000 Classical liberalism of Islam would be good for the planet. 1.00

00:34:27.000 And this is, it's long overdue.

00:34:27.000 Amen.

00:34:30.000 And I would tell anyone who thinks that this is why I think my candidacy is about diversity.

00:34:35.000 It's about the fact that the true party of diversity are the Republicans, because we believe in diverse ideas.

00:34:40.000 It's not about skin deep.

00:34:42.000 You know, we are colorblind to any of our candidates and any of our constituents.

00:34:46.000 But the idea of political diversity, ideological diversity, is that we would push the fact that you have free speech on campus.

00:34:54.000 You should have free speech around the world.

00:34:57.000 And the ideas of liberalization involve not putting people in prison because they argued against the Islamic State because they argued we need to be defending these ideas and giving them the platforms to do so.

00:35:09.000 I didn't give you adequate time to do this, Dr. Jasser, but you said the Islam that you grew up with.

00:35:14.000 What are the tenets of the faith that you believe are compatible with Western culture, that you live your life with?

00:35:20.000 Piety, humility.

00:35:22.000 It's about morality, family.

00:35:24.000 My personal family values with my wife.

00:35:26.000 My kids are 21, 19, and 15.

00:35:28.000 We teach them to be humble, to be honest, that Any single thing that they're dishonest about will then affect their character.

00:35:37.000 It's about character strength and helping those that are weaker than you.

00:35:41.000 That when you see somebody in need, you help them.

00:35:44.000 This is why I went into medicine, why I focus on medical ethics as one of my expertise, and ultimately about leaving the world a better place than you found it, about speaking out against things that are wrong, against things that are unethical, that are evil.

00:36:02.000 It's about the fact that God watches us at every moment, whether you're by yourself or with your family or with the world, that ultimately you're held accountable for all the things that you do and that we are people of integrity and people of honesty.

00:36:14.000 Dr. Jasser, a battle for the soul of Islam, 30 seconds, anything you wanted to plug or mention that we didn't get a chance to talk about?

00:36:21.000 Well, I think ultimately the issues that concern me are the border, our health care, our national security, the economy, and growth.

00:36:30.000 These are the issues that I will bring to fight for our citizens here and across the country.

00:36:35.000 I think the party can be rebranded as a party of diversity and that there's going to be a wave that puts Biden out of the White House, that puts the likes of Stanton, Greg Stanton here, out of Congress, and ultimately will be a new day for our party and for conservatism.

00:36:50.000 Amen.

00:36:51.000 A battle for the soul of Islam. 0.96

00:36:53.000 Again, the website is z4az.com.

00:36:56.000 Dr. Jasser, we'll have to have you back on.

00:36:57.000 I encourage people to check out your social media.

00:37:00.000 You're writing extensively about this in real time, right?

00:37:03.000 Including the anti-Semitism on campuses, and you're speaking out about it a lot.

00:37:07.000 We appreciate that.

00:37:08.000 Thank you, Dr. Jasser.

00:37:09.000 God bless you.

00:37:09.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:37:11.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:37:14.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

00:37:18.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - November 03, 2023

A Reformation for Islam? with Dr. Zuhdi Jasser

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