The Charlie Kirk Show - American Elites' War on White People

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, today on the Charlie Kirk show, there is a war on white people, a provocative conversation with Jeremy Carl, The Unprotected Class, How Anti-White Racism is Tearing America Apart by Jeremy Carl.

00:00:11.000 Check out his book today.

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00:00:35.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:36.000 Here we go.

00:00:37.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:39.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:41.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:45.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:48.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:49.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:50.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created.

00:00:57.000 Turning point USA. 0.65

00:00:58.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

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00:01:36.000 Jeremy Carl, who's become a really good friend and he's terrific, new book out called The Unprotected Class: How Anti-White Racism is Tearing America Apart.

00:01:47.000 Before we go into this conversation, everybody, you have to purchase this book.

00:01:50.000 They're going to do their best to censor it, to smear it, to slander it.

00:01:53.000 Check it out.

00:01:54.000 The unprotected class.

00:01:55.000 Jeremy, welcome to the program.

00:01:56.000 Great.

00:01:56.000 Thanks so much.

00:01:57.000 It's wonderful to be on, Charlie.

00:01:58.000 Jeremy, you do some excellent research.

00:02:00.000 This is a significant accomplishment.

00:02:03.000 And this is really the topic you're not allowed to talk about.

00:02:07.000 I see, what, 50 pages of endnotes and footnotes?

00:02:11.000 Yeah, I think it's 70, actually, but it's huge.

00:02:13.000 I mean, I had, I think, a 970 or something citations, and that was because I knew they would come after me.

00:02:19.000 So I wanted to kind of have everything as buttoned up as I could.

00:02:22.000 So tell us about the book.

00:02:24.000 Well, so it's sort of looking at the rise of institutional anti-white racism in the United States.

00:02:29.000 And Charlie, you kind of touched on it.

00:02:31.000 This is a forbidden topic.

00:02:33.000 Verboten.

00:02:34.000 It is verboten, and you're only allowed to kind of talk about other types of racism.

00:02:39.000 And by the way, I'm not suggesting that there are not other types of racism that happen in the U.S., either past or currently.

00:02:45.000 But what I kind of argue in the book is that this is the fundamental type of racism that we are dealing with now.

00:02:51.000 It's the most important.

00:02:52.000 And I kind of document what that looks like in a variety of different areas, looking at everything from crime to the schools to immigration policy to kind of throughout.

00:03:03.000 And then I kind of tie it up all together in a bow and talk about what's motivating it and what we can do about it.

00:03:09.000 So to the moderate person looking at this, they say, anti-white racism, what is it?

00:03:15.000 So give us kind of four or five glaring examples, the institutional anti-white racism in our country.

00:03:21.000 Sure.

00:03:21.000 So, I mean, I think one example I talk about in the book, now a little bit addressed in theory by the Supreme Court, was around affirmative action, the Bakke case, and just this was the original case that was a California student or something.

00:03:35.000 Yes, a student who applied to UC Davis Medical School and is vastly, vastly more qualified than some other minority students, particularly African Americans, who were accepted.

00:03:46.000 He's rejected.

00:03:47.000 This goes to the Supreme Court.

00:03:49.000 Eventually, it's a really complicated case, and you have six different opinions out of the nine justices.

00:03:54.000 But basically, the long and short of it is affirmative action is upheld in that case.

00:03:59.000 And what happens is the kind of student who takes his place at UC, Davis, all these great stories are written about him.

00:04:08.000 And Ted Kennedy, the former senator, kind of does a big thing about how wonderful he is and says this guy is the epitome of why affirmative action is great.

00:04:16.000 And as I kind of relayed in the book, it turns out later, you know, he ends up killing some patients and kind of being losing his medical license for incompetence.

00:04:25.000 And it's quite a story.

00:04:26.000 And then he ends up dead by the side of the road eventually.

00:04:29.000 And there's some intimation, although I want to stress that we don't have any proof on this, that maybe there was a former patient involved or something like that.

00:04:36.000 But that's some of it.

00:04:38.000 On immigration policy, any sort of attempts by people to say, hey, you know, we might want to slow down the pace of demographic change, let alone if we mention something like the great replacement, then you're automatically Adolf Hitler too. 0.71

00:04:53.000 This is kind of seen as an illegitimate way to look at America.

00:05:00.000 That kind of bleeds into the fact that all these statues are being torn down, and we're not just talking about Confederate statues, we're talking about the statue of Thomas Jefferson being removed from the New York City City Council chambers after 187 years or things like that.

00:05:15.000 So you could just kind of go on and on.

00:05:18.000 I mean, again, I talk about different things.

00:05:20.000 In healthcare, you've got prioritization going on by race of treatments.

00:05:25.000 You've got white doctors being told you can't research in this area without a minority researcher working with you.

00:05:33.000 You've got discrimination against medical schools.

00:05:35.000 So again, it just goes on and on.

00:05:37.000 And that's really what the book is about: kind of documenting all of this in painstaking detail.

00:05:42.000 And I really didn't just write it for true believers.

00:05:44.000 I wrote it for people who, you know, you could give it to your mom if she's skeptical.

00:05:48.000 And I'm not trying to be the so-called edgelord here.

00:05:52.000 You know, I'm trying to write this for a mainstream audience and really make a good case.

00:05:56.000 So explain to me how a population that is a majority of the country can have so much racism pioneered again, like configured against them.

00:06:08.000 Yeah.

00:06:08.000 That doesn't really make a lot of sense.

00:06:10.000 It's a great question, Charlie.

00:06:12.000 And it's actually a little bit of that is what I made look at it a follow-up because I think it's we don't have a clear answer.

00:06:20.000 There's almost a psyop going on where people have sort of decided that this is okay.

00:06:26.000 But essentially, you've got a lot of minority political leadership that is unified around this idea.

00:06:33.000 They may want resources of various types for their communities or whatnot.

00:06:37.000 And then you've got this kind of bizarre left-leaning community of white liberals that, I mean, that just is kind of very anti-white.

00:06:46.000 And I think the question why is it's not really clear how we answer that.

00:06:53.000 Some of it is actual self-hatred, and you can actually see this really clearly in survey data.

00:06:57.000 I kind of showed that.

00:06:58.000 It's self-loathing.

00:06:59.000 Yeah.

00:06:59.000 I mean, you see that liberal whites uniquely among all kinds of demographics that you could look at, they have what's called an outgroup preference.

00:07:09.000 So liberal African Americans like African Americans a little bit more than other ethnicities.

00:07:13.000 Liberal Asian Americans, same thing.

00:07:15.000 Again, regardless of ideology, but liberal white people actually prefer non-whites and they think badly about whites.

00:07:23.000 Where does that come from?

00:07:24.000 That I don't, I don't know.

00:07:26.000 I don't have a clear answer.

00:07:28.000 And this is actually kind of, again, what I want to explore in a kind of follow-up book.

00:07:33.000 But there is a part that I do think we can say more clearly, which is there's another element of this beyond self-hatred that's about status.

00:07:41.000 Because if you've got $100 million, okay, it's very easy for me to say, yeah, hey, I don't care about like we should give a leg up to these other people or white people are privileged because guess what?

00:07:53.000 It doesn't really cost you anything or at least anything that you can't afford.

00:07:57.000 So in any way, these sort of conspicuous displays in this case are actually a way of saying, I'm really powerful, I'm really influential.

00:08:05.000 So that part of it, I think we can understand a little bit more.

00:08:08.000 So the self-loathing is always fascinating to me.

00:08:12.000 And so what do older Americans in their 60s or 70s not understand about the racial caste system?

00:08:19.000 That people in their, so if I talk to a 18-year-old, they say, of course, there's a war on white people. 0.72

00:08:24.000 Yeah.

00:08:25.000 But if I talk to a 65-year-old, they say, Charlie, you're being racist.

00:08:28.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:08:28.000 This is a fascinating thing, right?

00:08:30.000 And I think part of it has been, and again, I talk about this a lot in the book, the huge demographic transition that we've had since those senior citizens are kids.

00:08:42.000 And so, I mean, they're thinking about their own experience growing up where they grew up in an overwhelmingly white society.

00:08:48.000 And depending on how old they are, I mean, pretty clearly a time when white people would have been benefiting more, or at least certainly not discriminated against.

00:08:56.000 And so they kind of look at this.

00:08:58.000 And even still, they are predominantly in white communities in many cases.

00:09:04.000 So they're not seeing this.

00:09:05.000 Meanwhile, if you are the age of my kids, you know, my oldest kid is 17, or some of the folks that you're dealing with, this is a reality of their everyday life.

00:09:14.000 Every day they're told they're evil because of the color of their skin.

00:09:16.000 Yeah, no, absolutely.

00:09:17.000 And so it's not shocking to them.

00:09:20.000 And that's kind of the encouraging thing.

00:09:21.000 I mean, it's discouraging for the country, but it's encouraging in terms of when I talk about the book, because when I talk to younger people, they say, oh, yeah, I just, and I just got done doing my first few public talks about this book.

00:09:33.000 They're like, oh, yeah, of course.

00:09:34.000 So I don't have to explain it to them.

00:09:35.000 No, no, they live it every single day.

00:09:37.000 But the skeptics are the people that are in, you know, late 60s, early 70s.

00:09:43.000 They say, yeah, they're not a war on white people.

00:09:46.000 You know, affirmative action might be okay. 0.56

00:09:48.000 Right.

00:09:49.000 You know, but there also is this embedded, like, we're still the country in the 1960s, maybe?

00:09:55.000 Right.

00:09:56.000 And again, I write about this, that there's also this, and this is actually, here is the most challenging thing for this book, is that everybody, and I think particularly white people who were responsible with all the good and bad of largely building this country over time, it's just a demographic fact of who was here.

00:10:15.000 It's painful to admit a change in status or to complain about it is sort of seen as, oh, you know, I'm whining to the refs.

00:10:24.000 I'm saying I'm low.

00:10:26.000 And I'd say two things.

00:10:27.000 First of all, I'm not writing this to whine to the refs because the refs don't like us, okay?

00:10:31.000 I'm doing this to rally the troops.

00:10:33.000 And I'm not doing it in terms of, oh, white people should be getting special favors.

00:10:37.000 I'm demanding equal treatment.

00:10:38.000 Well, yeah, and when I'm on campus, you know who's repulsed by this also is Hispanics. 1.00

00:10:42.000 No one likes the anti-white racism that's bubbling up.

00:10:45.000 If you have a conscience, I mean, if you don't. 0.78

00:10:47.000 And in fact, I want to dive deeper into some of the biggest critics of your book are going to be white people.

00:10:53.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:10:54.000 And that's so bizarre.

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00:11:59.000 The unprotected class, how anti-white racism is tearing America apart.

00:12:04.000 So if you read civil rights laws, they typically say that all forms of racial discrimination are illegal.

00:12:09.000 That would include anti-white racism.

00:12:11.000 Yet everyone knows that racism against whites happens in hiring, promotion, social admissions, and is so routine and blatant.

00:12:17.000 Why is that?

00:12:17.000 And if this is happening, why are we not able to stop it?

00:12:20.000 Yeah, well, I mean, part of it is really a psyop, Charlie.

00:12:23.000 And I think what we've seen.

00:12:24.000 What do you mean by that?

00:12:25.000 For someone that doesn't know what that is.

00:12:27.000 There's an element of what we'd almost call like Stockholm syndrome, if you're familiar with that, the kind of idea of...

00:12:31.000 You fall in love with your captors.

00:12:33.000 Yeah, you fall in love with your captors.

00:12:34.000 And I think that's happened here.

00:12:37.000 And I think what's interesting, for anybody who doubts that this is really going on, I think the most effective group that has come out of the Trump White House is, at least to my mind, America First Legal, which is Stephen Miller's group.

00:12:52.000 He's great.

00:12:53.000 And I think it's just done outstanding work.

00:12:54.000 And really, the primary element of what they've been doing since they got out is just taking stuff that is blatantly illegal, discriminatory stuff against whites and hiring, promotions, and they're just suing on it.

00:13:08.000 And nobody had really been doing this.

00:13:09.000 I mean, they've done it idiosyncratically, but not at scale.

00:13:12.000 And what they're finding is they're winning a lot of this, and they're going to win even more of it because the law is actually clear.

00:13:19.000 But people were kind of so sort of intimidated, they weren't even challenging the law.

00:13:24.000 They just sort of accepted that's how things were.

00:13:27.000 Do you think, so have we seen evidence that the courts will rule in our favor with anti-white racism?

00:13:32.000 Yeah, I mean, I think we have.

00:13:33.000 And I mean, some of this is just, it's kind of open and shut.

00:13:36.000 And in fact, what you're seeing in many cases is with, especially with things like scholarships and things like that, they're just folding.

00:13:43.000 They're not even going to court because we sue them and they're like, oh, yeah, actually, you know, we're going to lose this case.

00:13:49.000 And they just stop the illegal behavior.

00:13:52.000 They stop the...

00:13:53.000 We should sue for damages.

00:13:54.000 We should make the pain significant.

00:13:56.000 Well, that's what we need to do.

00:13:57.000 And I'll tell you, one of the good examples of this that I talk about in the book is you may remember a few years back, there was kind of an infamous incident about Starbucks around where some young African Americans had been asked to leave a store, and this turned into a big firestorm of controversy.

00:14:17.000 And it was, you know, it was really, in my view, appropriate.

00:14:20.000 But of course, the Starbucks people wailed.

00:14:22.000 Well, it turns out they were making a commotion or noise or something.

00:14:25.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:14:26.000 They wailed and they gnashed their teeth and they shut down for racial training.

00:14:29.000 And ultimately, they fired the white regional manager.

00:14:33.000 But you know who they didn't fire was the African-American manager of that Starbucks store, who in my view, again, had acted totally appropriately.

00:14:41.000 So they're eventually the regional manager who's white, who had nothing to do with this directly in any way.

00:14:48.000 She sues for discrimination and she wins a $25 million verdict.

00:14:51.000 So I think that if we push on this, if we make it systemic and we need to make it 100 times what we're doing right now, I think we can win.

00:15:00.000 But according to either civil rights law and or federal hiring practices, if you fire a white person, it's not a protected class.

00:15:10.000 Well, no.

00:15:11.000 So, I mean, that's been the actual practice, yes.

00:15:14.000 In theory, white people are protected under these laws. 0.82

00:15:17.000 That's the great irony of it, right?

00:15:19.000 You really think so.

00:15:19.000 You think that if a white person put a claim against us at Turning Point, that the federal government would hear their claim?

00:15:27.000 Well, that's the trick, right?

00:15:28.000 Because especially, as I point out, the civil rights division of the Justice Department, under a Republican administration, it's liberal, and under a Democratic administration, it's far left, right?

00:15:39.000 So I think the Biden administration, the Justice Department would absolutely not, they'd find a way to deny the claim no matter what the law said.

00:15:46.000 And that's one of the reasons why the left has concentrated so much on controlling the administrative state, so much on controlling the judiciary.

00:15:54.000 Yeah, like the EEOC, which is the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

00:16:00.000 If you're black or if you're Hispanic and you file one of these claims, they get accelerated.

00:16:06.000 They get taken very seriously.

00:16:08.000 Right.

00:16:08.000 And however, if you're white, they just laugh.

00:16:10.000 They're like, you got fired because you're white? 0.98

00:16:13.000 Like, tough life, man. 0.94

00:16:15.000 Yeah.

00:16:15.000 No, and it's, and I think one of the things that's interesting is we're kind of moving into this post-white America, as I call it.

00:16:21.000 I mean, just demographically, that's the reality.

00:16:23.000 And I think it's just, it's ultimately not sustainable, the current system we're on.

00:16:27.000 I mean, when whites are not even the majority anymore, like, why would we allow ourselves to be treated in a lesser way than some other group, right? 0.70

00:16:36.000 Like, these sorts of things could vaguely work when whites were a supermajority, but now they're just totally unviable, in my view. 0.99

00:16:41.000 Yeah, and then I want to talk about whites versus whiteness and where this idea of whiteness comes from.

00:16:46.000 Yeah.

00:16:47.000 You know, people remember the Smithsonian Museum, the African American Heritage Museum, History Museum, during Floyd Apalooza that came out and they said that speaking properly, using grammar, math, these are all attributes of whiteness, right? 0.84

00:17:02.000 You know, being on time.

00:17:03.000 And basically what they're saying is that Western civilization is whiteness.

00:17:06.000 Right.

00:17:07.000 And I guess my question is: are they right?

00:17:09.000 Right.

00:17:11.000 It's a profound question.

00:17:12.000 I mean, I think historically, I mean, first of all, the whole category of white is a little questionable.

00:17:18.000 It's a little catch-all, right?

00:17:19.000 Right.

00:17:20.000 I mean, because even though in 1790 when we had a naturalization law and it referred to white people, it was really clear who that meant.

00:17:28.000 But the reality is you had British and you had Germans and you had Irish.

00:17:31.000 And the idea of white comes from Caucasian, which is actually the Caucasus.

00:17:37.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:18:40.000 I have so many thoughts here, but let's dive into white versus whiteness. 0.70

00:18:44.000 What does this mean?

00:18:45.000 Sure.

00:18:45.000 Well, one of them is kind of almost a cultural category, whiteness.

00:18:49.000 And then white is more of an ethnic category, which is, again, a catch-all for a lot of people that would have been seen as similar in some contexts, but very different in others in American history.

00:18:59.000 But as you pointed out, whiteness is kind of used as an overall category to often just talk about things that a lot of us would just consider pro-social.

00:19:11.000 And of course, shouldn't be limited to any one race at all.

00:19:14.000 And in fact, aren't.

00:19:15.000 Yeah, that should be colorblinds.

00:19:17.000 Yeah.

00:19:17.000 But in fact.

00:19:19.000 I'll read off the list, but keep going.

00:19:21.000 Yeah, to stigmatize those things is seen as stigmatizing whiteness.

00:19:26.000 And it's not a coincidence, as I write about in the book, that when we begin to get our first kind of looks at white privilege, that term, it actually doesn't occur at a time, you know, 100 years ago when there would have been white privilege in the United States.

00:19:41.000 It happens in the 1980s with an academic at Wesleyan who uses that term.

00:19:45.000 This is right around the time that anything resembling white privilege is dying.

00:19:49.000 It's just sort of like if you're living under Kim Jong-un, you're not going to talk about Kim Jong-un's power.

00:19:54.000 It's only if you're safely away, then you can criticize Kim Jong-un.

00:19:59.000 The taxpayer-funded National Museum of African American History said that family structure, having a family is white culture.

00:20:07.000 Nuclear family, father, mother, two or three children is the ideal social unit. 0.95

00:20:12.000 This is the black history museum.

00:20:14.000 Wife is a homemaker. 1.00

00:20:17.000 That is whiteness. 1.00

00:20:18.000 Children should have their own rooms. 0.86

00:20:19.000 That is whiteness.

00:20:21.000 It is white.

00:20:22.000 Emphasis on scientific method.

00:20:24.000 So objective, rational, linear thinking, cause and effect.

00:20:28.000 Quantitative emphasis.

00:20:30.000 History based on Northern European immigrants' experience in the United States.

00:20:36.000 Protestant work ethic.

00:20:38.000 Status, power, and authority, meaning that you have to respect authority.

00:20:43.000 That is a white symptom. 0.69

00:20:44.000 Following time is being white.

00:20:48.000 Justice, protecting property and entitlements is white. 0.87

00:20:54.000 Competition, meaning if you believe in competing, you're white. 0.91

00:20:58.000 Communication, meaning written tradition, being polite.

00:21:03.000 These are all white culture. 0.99

00:21:06.000 If that's white culture, it actually sounds pretty. 0.97

00:21:08.000 Yeah, I'm about to say, I mean, I wrote this book.

00:21:09.000 I didn't realize.

00:21:11.000 I actually kind of want to deracialize the conversation.

00:21:13.000 Reading that list, I can't help but wonder: do they use like hyper-tribal tactics as a means to destroy Western civilization? 0.85

00:21:21.000 Meaning they do hate white people, but they've come to hate white people because they actually hate what white people might represent, or at least some would, which is the remnant of the West.

00:21:31.000 I think that's right.

00:21:32.000 And in many ways, this erasure of history that I write about is because they need to create something that they feel like they own as opposed to something that, in my view, they should participate in, which is great, and we want them to participate in, but that they would perceive as white zoning. 0.52

00:21:49.000 And just to kind of pick up, I mean, I could have done a number of things from that list you just read out, but just to sort of show the absurdity of some of these claims, you hear a lot about kind of the breakdown of African-American family structure as a legacy of slavery.

00:22:02.000 Well, if you go back 80 years, 85% of African-American parents were married.

00:22:08.000 That's okay.

00:22:09.000 Much, much, much closer to the time of parents.

00:22:11.000 Much higher percentage of white parents than are white parents being married today.

00:22:15.000 So what we've actually had is a full-scale cultural collapse that is really a product of leftism in very many instantiations that is being blamed on whiteness. 0.90

00:22:25.000 It's just nuts.

00:22:26.000 Yeah.

00:22:27.000 And when, so on campus in particular, that is like the origination point.

00:22:32.000 So white privilege, you said, started in the 80s, this idea of white privilege.

00:22:36.000 Jeremy, how do you then respond to people that would say, but whites have more money, whites get arrested less, or so on and so forth?

00:22:46.000 The disparate income disparities.

00:22:48.000 I deal with this on a daily basis.

00:22:51.000 And an activist on campus or a professor would say, how dare you say there's anti-white racism? 0.80

00:22:57.000 Whites have it great.

00:22:59.000 Well, again, I mean, there's, of course, a million different examples you can give throughout histories and cultures of groups that are discriminated against that have strong cultural ties or whatever else and are still doing very well.

00:22:59.000 Yeah.

00:23:12.000 It doesn't mean the discrimination doesn't exist.

00:23:16.000 I mean, the fact that Jews have been phenomenally successful in the United States doesn't mean that we've never had anti-Semitism, right?

00:23:21.000 So that's true.

00:23:23.000 That's like one trivial way of doing it.

00:23:25.000 The other way that often these arguments work, and again, I write about this, is it often erases Asian Americans because Asian Americans are the inconvenient minority.

00:23:34.000 Because pretty much any one of those metrics, Charlie, that you just read out, Asian Americans would be higher than white people. 0.88

00:23:40.000 But they say it's the model minority.

00:23:42.000 And I laugh.

00:23:42.000 Right.

00:23:43.000 I say, of course it is.

00:23:45.000 I mean a group that stays loyally married, doesn't commit crimes, cares a lot about schooling, and invests in their culture, saves money.

00:23:53.000 That is a model.

00:23:54.000 That's a model group for all people.

00:23:56.000 Right, right.

00:23:57.000 And that's really the answer.

00:23:58.000 And it's sort of like, and even among groups, right?

00:24:00.000 Like I talk about the Igbo or Igbo, which is a subset of a lot of Nigerian Americans.

00:24:07.000 If you were to look at them, higher educational attainment than the average white American, higher income, et cetera, et cetera, down all the sort of list of good things that you'd want. 0.85

00:24:17.000 So if we've got sort of systemic racism against African Americans, why did it just skip over them, right?

00:24:23.000 I mean, it's just, you know, these things don't stand up to kind of empirical scrutiny.

00:24:28.000 Yes, that's right.

00:24:29.000 And I mean, for example, there's plenty of Haitians in Florida that are doing fine.

00:24:34.000 And it's not a racial thing.

00:24:34.000 Yeah.

00:24:37.000 However, there's something that happened in the 50s or 60s with the collapse of the black family.

00:24:42.000 Where now today, and when I say this to activists on campus, they've never heard this, the left-wingers.

00:24:42.000 Right.

00:24:47.000 I say, what do you think?

00:24:48.000 How many blacks are being raised by a two-parent household?

00:24:51.000 They say, why does that even, first they say, why does it even matter?

00:24:53.000 Yeah.

00:24:54.000 Secondly, they'll say, I don't know, 60%.

00:24:56.000 I say, try 25%, and it's probably lower than that.

00:25:00.000 It's probably lower than that.

00:25:01.000 So 75% of kids, black kids in America, are raised without a father around.

00:25:06.000 75%.

00:25:08.000 So let's get back into the anti-white racism.

00:25:14.000 How do we then best fight back and withstand the criticism where they're going to say this is just a white lash or this is just you being a white nationalist?

00:25:23.000 Right.

00:25:24.000 Well, I mean, the simple answer to the white nationalist question is I'm just, I'm not.

00:25:28.000 You know, I'd tell them if I were, right?

00:25:30.000 But I'm just not.

00:25:32.000 So that's really easy.

00:25:33.000 I mean, there should be a backlash against the fact that they're being racist because that's good.

00:25:38.000 I mean, you shouldn't be able to be racist without accountability.

00:25:43.000 So I don't have any problem with that.

00:25:45.000 But I think there's lots of different tactics, whether it's lawfare, whether it's and kind of a creation, I think, over time of kind of getting, we need to really re-look at how we've enforced civil rights laws.

00:25:59.000 And again, I'm not saying that because I think we need to re-litigate the wisdom of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

00:26:05.000 It was put in at a particular time to solve I've criticized it.

00:26:10.000 Yeah, but it's Caldwell's thing.

00:26:12.000 Yeah, I mean, yeah, and Chris Caldwell is a colleague of mine, and I think it's, you know, it's fine to do that.

00:26:18.000 But I think just as a political strategy, I think if people want to say, hey, there were absolutely real problems that it was addressing, whether you think it did it in the perfect way or not.

00:26:29.000 But we're as far from that time right now as they were from the Wright brothers.

00:26:34.000 So there's a lot of things that have changed in American society.

00:26:36.000 We're not worried about people not being served at lunch counters anymore.

00:26:39.000 Yeah, and the Civil Rights Act, though, let's be clear, created a beast, and that beast has now turned into an anti-white weapon.

00:26:46.000 Yeah, and that's the reality.

00:26:48.000 And so we just need to fundamentally re-look at a lot of our civil rights legal regime.

00:26:53.000 And without that, even though I don't think it's sort of the magic bullet, but I think without that, there's limits to the amount of progress we're going to make.

00:27:00.000 Let's talk about discourse and dialogue.

00:27:04.000 This topic would have been even more forbidden four or five years ago, but it's now becoming in more and more mainstream circles.

00:27:11.000 Is that because the problem is becoming worse, or but our side is more courageous to confront it?

00:27:16.000 I think it's both, Charlie.

00:27:17.000 And I'm going to commend you in particular and Tucker and guys like Matt Walsh.

00:27:23.000 There's like three of us.

00:27:24.000 Yeah, it's really, you guys are the big three, but not the only ones, but definitely that have something to lose.

00:27:31.000 The big three who've really come out and talked about this.

00:27:33.000 So I think it's been a combination of things are getting worse, and that's actually put pressure.

00:27:38.000 And then that we've had a few folks like you who have been willing to speak forward.

00:27:42.000 And I'm really appreciative, or have people like me on the show to discuss it.

00:27:46.000 It's a no-brainer.

00:27:47.000 This is not controversial to me.

00:27:48.000 This is real.

00:27:49.000 I know it.

00:27:50.000 We live through it every single day.

00:27:52.000 Well, it helps because you're spending so much time with young people, Charlie.

00:27:55.000 So you see it.

00:27:56.000 You see it in a way that some of the older people are.

00:27:58.000 Well, and I want to also say, again, the liberal media is not going to cover all this, but if you have unapologetic, ferocious anti-white racism.

00:28:08.000 then young whites are going to find some very radical political positions.

00:28:11.000 Right.

00:28:12.000 And I don't want that, actually.

00:28:13.000 No, absolutely.

00:28:14.000 I mean, I didn't write this book to de-radicalize people, okay?

00:28:17.000 But I actually think that if people read it, they will understand.

00:28:20.000 If you're a white person and you're like, man, I'm just, I'm at the end of my rope and I don't know what I'm going to do.

00:28:26.000 But that's where a lot of the young white men that we speak to on campus, I sometimes have to kind of bring them back into like free society. 0.57

00:28:35.000 Like, let's calm down because they say everyone's against us.

00:28:38.000 We need to create our own identity politic group.

00:28:40.000 And I actually don't think that's a good idea.

00:28:42.000 I don't think more tribalism is the answer to tribalism.

00:28:45.000 But I see why they believe that.

00:28:47.000 I sympathize with it.

00:28:49.000 The media then says, how dare you sympathize with people that want to create their own identity group.

00:28:54.000 But can you speak to that, Jeremy?

00:28:55.000 It's like you can only push a group into a corner so much until they kind of say, I'm not going to take it anymore.

00:29:01.000 Yeah.

00:29:02.000 And I think that's what's happening.

00:29:03.000 And I think that's, you know, you're seeing this ferment and that's the left kind of loses its mind because they refuse to deal with the consequences of what they've created.

00:29:11.000 I do think that there's an element in the same way that Martin Luther King Jr., who we talked about before of the show, but he wasn't, you know, plus or minus, he wasn't kind of, he wasn't a black nationalist in the way that early Malcolm X was.

00:29:25.000 He was trying to organize black people, however, without apology. 1.00

00:29:29.000 I think in the same way, like, we've had a lot of airy appeals to equal rights, and it sort of hasn't gotten us anywhere.

00:29:36.000 We need to organize people, not in a way to kind of create racial identity politics, but to show that, like, these are the people being discriminated against, so they have to organize against it.

00:29:46.000 Actively.

00:29:47.000 And it is without a doubt the only group in the country that you're not allowed to say that you're even part of that group.

00:29:55.000 Right.

00:29:56.000 Let alone that you're being mistreated.

00:29:58.000 Right.

00:29:59.000 Why do you think that is?

00:30:01.000 Is it just that everyone's so afraid of being called a racist?

00:30:03.000 I actually think that simple explanation is the deep one.

00:30:06.000 Yeah, I think that's right.

00:30:07.000 That being called a racist is worse than being called a rapist in American society.

00:30:11.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:30:12.000 And you'll see even people who would be considered very, very far to the right, and they will disclaim, or they will feel like they've been slandered if that is used against them.

00:30:23.000 And you seem to get over it because ultimately, if you're being effective in this world right now, you're going to be called a racist by the left, but they don't even know what a woman is.

00:30:30.000 How would they know what a racist is?

00:30:32.000 That's right.

00:30:33.000 I get called racist every day.

00:30:34.000 And it's easy to say, why are you so terrified of being called a racist?

00:30:37.000 But there are huge consequences for being called a racist.

00:30:40.000 Of course.

00:30:41.000 Unless you have your own stuff and unless you're very unique and you're willing to punch through it and punch through it and punch through it and punch through it.

00:30:48.000 And then you come to the other side and you have intellectual purity and freedom.

00:30:51.000 But that's a small group of people right now because they might have employers and agreements and advertisers.

00:30:57.000 And we have advertisers.

00:30:59.000 But they're very supportive of the positions we take.

00:31:02.000 I get when people are, I don't want to say afraid, but cautious.

00:31:02.000 So I get it.

00:31:09.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:32:13.000 I want to quote a friend of yours and a teacher of mine, Michael Anton.

00:32:19.000 It's not happening, and it's good that it is.

00:32:22.000 Probably one of the most powerful pieces I've seen on the American mind in the last couple of years.

00:32:27.000 Michael Anton writes this piece, that is how the left responds.

00:32:30.000 So, Jeremy, the country's becoming less white. 0.95

00:32:33.000 They say it's not happening, but it's good that it is.

00:32:36.000 What are the consequences of the great replacement?

00:32:39.000 Well, I think they're profound, and we're just beginning to see them.

00:32:44.000 I mean, again, it's sort of we've had a history in the U.S. starting from well before we were even a country of a kind of European-focused civilization, and we're now kind of moving into something that is going to be something different.

00:33:00.000 So, that is pretty profound.

00:33:02.000 I think when whites also have a lot of resources that other people might like, that I argue that in the book, that that's one of the real motivators behind a lot of this politics: you need what's called, the sociologist C. Wright Mills called a legitimating ideology.

00:33:17.000 So, you can't just like take stuff from people.

00:33:20.000 You need to have a reason why it's good that you're taking it.

00:33:23.000 And so, I think.

00:33:24.000 Or at least a story.

00:33:25.000 Right. 0.97

00:33:25.000 And that's what this is: say, well, if white people are systemically racist and horrible and they've been oppressive for the entire X hundred years, then of course, you know, to make things equal, we have to take things from them. 0.97

00:33:36.000 So, I think some of that's going on. 0.95

00:33:37.000 So, it's a means to property confiscation.

00:33:39.000 Absolutely.

00:33:40.000 And it's a speculative argument, but it is.

00:33:42.000 No, it's 100% true.

00:33:43.000 Well, good, because that's what I say in the next to last chapter of the book.

00:33:47.000 But that's what they, at the core of, I hate to say Marxist because it sounds cliche, but it's true, of Marxist philosophy is the destruction of private property, the destruction of the family, and the destruction of any sort of belief in the transcendent or the divine.

00:34:01.000 Yeah.

00:34:01.000 And anti-white racism is a means for property confiscation, otherwise known as reparations.

00:34:06.000 Yeah.

00:34:06.000 And I talk a lot about reparations in the book.

00:34:08.000 Talk about it now.

00:34:09.000 Yeah.

00:34:10.000 So, I mean, you've got this, it's a sort of thing where a lot of things that the left does, and we laugh about it on the right.

00:34:17.000 And then, you know, I think of Gavin Newsom doing his illegal gay marriage ceremony, and everybody was like, this is insane, and he's going to pay this huge political price.

00:34:27.000 And then 11 years later, I'm going to...

00:34:29.000 Remind people about this.

00:34:30.000 He was the mayor of San Francisco.

00:34:32.000 Right.

00:34:32.000 He broke the law and still officiated and or convened homosexual, quote-unquote, marriage.

00:34:38.000 Correct. 0.60

00:34:39.000 And then everybody's like, this is insane.

00:34:41.000 And even in San Francisco, he may pay a political price or certainly would end his career in California.

00:34:45.000 11 years later, Supreme Court makes it the law of the land everywhere.

00:34:49.000 So in a similar way, Tanahisi Coates, who's a kind of prominent African-American intellectual, he writes about a decade ago a piece on how white people need to give reparations to African Americans, primarily for slavery.

00:35:02.000 And everybody kind of freaks out and says this is crazy.

00:35:06.000 And now what you have is even, you know, a decade later, you've got San Francisco and California and Boston and these other places.

00:35:14.000 By the way, invariably places where there was no slavery for any meaningful period of time, kind of beginning to really go down this reparations rabbit hole.

00:35:25.000 And I think if you don't think that this is going to be coming down the pike in a much bigger way, you're kidding me.

00:35:30.000 So the typical response I hear then from the audience is, but what does someone like Gavin Newsom think?

00:35:37.000 Won't he also be swept up in the reparations?

00:35:41.000 Can you explain that?

00:35:42.000 We only have a minute remaining on this radio, but help me explain to other people.

00:35:47.000 I see it clearly, which is all about power.

00:35:49.000 They think they'll be exempt.

00:35:50.000 They're in the oligarchy.

00:35:51.000 Is that the proper way of thinking about this?

00:35:53.000 I actually think it kind of is.

00:35:55.000 They do think they'll be exempt.

00:35:56.000 And in many ways, I think it's for my enemies, the law, for my friends, whatever they want.

00:36:04.000 Basically, there's a phrase.

00:36:06.000 And so I think the left, and you saw this with COVID, right?

00:36:09.000 Gavin Newsom was expert at getting out of his own COVID restrictions and going to fancy restaurants.

00:36:14.000 So I think they think they can get their way out of it.

00:36:16.000 They might be right, but you and I and everybody else, we're going to suffer from it.

00:36:20.000 Yes.

00:36:20.000 And the law need not apply.

00:36:23.000 The unprotected class, how anti-white racism is tearing America apart.

00:36:27.000 This is going to be a very censored book, a very banned book.

00:36:30.000 Yeah.

00:36:31.000 And I'm sure the left is going to really come after it very aggressively, but I think this is really important.

00:36:37.000 This is a conversation we can't run away from.

00:36:39.000 People say, well, it's uncomfortable.

00:36:40.000 It's uncomfortable for me to even talk about it.

00:36:42.000 I didn't want to.

00:36:43.000 I went through a whole long list of time where I was sort of like Jonah, not listening to God and saying, you know, I'm going to run away.

00:36:49.000 Go to Nineveh. 0.98

00:36:49.000 I don't want to go to Nineveh, right? 0.98

00:36:51.000 I want to go to Spain and just have my vacation.

00:36:54.000 But we have to talk about it.

00:36:55.000 And we have to talk about this not just because of white people.

00:36:58.000 Every race has an interest in avoiding the kind of cliff that we are running toward and making sure that we don't fall off it as a society.

00:37:05.000 So, Jeremy, where does the anti-white thing come from as far as is it easy just to say it's Marxism, critical theory?

00:37:12.000 Can you just give us some of the philosophical roots, thinkers, authors that were the genesis of this?

00:37:20.000 Yeah, well, I think certainly critical theory is part of it.

00:37:26.000 I do sometimes get a little bit wary of these cultural Marxism explanations because I think it kind of folds in a very 20th century or even 19th century arguments about property and sort of attempts to sort of shoehorn it in this place on a 21st century debate where it doesn't totally fit.

00:37:45.000 But I think certainly those thinkers are a key component.

00:37:50.000 Folks like Ibram Kendi, Ibram X. Kendi really kind of Henry Rogers or, and I'm just blocking out her name, the woman who kind of wrote about white fragility.

00:38:05.000 Yeah, there's Robin DeAngelo.

00:38:06.000 Robin D'Angelo, thank you.

00:38:07.000 I can't believe I just forgot her name.

00:38:09.000 So you've got these folks, and it was interesting.

00:38:11.000 I mean, these are not marginal figures who like 15 intellectuals are reading.

00:38:16.000 In the wake of George Floyd, these were the number one best-selling books in all of categories in the country.

00:38:22.000 Yeah.

00:38:22.000 So, I mean, these are reaching huge audiences, and they have their roots in the academic left, but they've spread far beyond that.

00:38:30.000 So the call to action is both legally and culturally, we need to put a stop to this anti-white racism.

00:38:36.000 Right.

00:38:36.000 And you lay out a blueprint of actually how to stop it.

00:38:39.000 My personal opinion, though, is that this stops the minute that white people stop allowing themselves to be abused.

00:38:46.000 I agree.

00:38:47.000 And Charlie, I'm so glad you said that because that is the key thing.

00:38:51.000 I'm not whining to the refs here.

00:38:52.000 I'm not saying, oh, you know, please don't.

00:38:54.000 No, we, you know, the fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, but in ourselves, as they say in Julius Caesar, we have to stop allowing ourselves to be treated that way.

00:39:07.000 And if you're listening to this show, I just hope you say, hey, you know, I'm not going to put up with this.

00:39:12.000 It's not right.

00:39:13.000 And as soon as we decide that we're not going to put up with it, it will begin to go away.

00:39:18.000 If you change the attitude on anti-white racism and stop cowering.

00:39:23.000 Yeah.

00:39:24.000 And can we also just talk about there's a lot of poor white people in this country, too.

00:39:27.000 Sure.

00:39:28.000 There's a forgotten underclass of white people.

00:39:30.000 Right.

00:39:30.000 This idea that every white person is rich and successful and has a debt-free life and a perfect home with a picket fence, that's not supported in reality or data at all.

00:39:40.000 No, absolutely not.

00:39:41.000 And in fact, I talk in the book about so-called deaths of despair, and there's a Nobel Prize-winning economist named Angus Deaton, who's at Princeton, and his wife Ann Case, also an economist, who have written about this, how you've seen particularly an explosion among middle-aged white Americans.

00:39:58.000 who are kind of middle and working class, who are sort of seeing the collapse of a lot of these systems around them, who are feeling that as whites, they're kind of at the bottom of the status totem pole.

00:40:07.000 And we've seen a huge growth in suicides, in drug overdoses, particularly localized to these groups.

00:40:14.000 So that's where you've seen the growth.

00:40:16.000 And I think they're sort of giving up.

00:40:18.000 And I want to encourage these folks not to give up and that we can stand up for ourselves and things can get better.

00:40:24.000 The unprotected class, how anti-white racism is tearing America apart.

00:40:28.000 Jeremy, anything we didn't discuss you want our audience to be aware of that, I mean, we covered a lot of ground.

00:40:34.000 Yeah, I mean, I think the centrality of immigration, we did touch on it, obviously, but I just, I think it is without kind of getting control of the border, which is obviously a huge issue right now, we can't begin to solve any of this.

00:40:47.000 Because if we do create, there's a fancy scholarly term called ethnogenesis, which means essentially you're creating a new ethnic group that may have a variety of different racial origins, but sort of sees itself as one people.

00:41:00.000 The necessary thing to do that is that you've got to get control of the border.

00:41:06.000 You've got to give us some breathing room and some time so that we can begin to reconstitute our culture and be a people.

00:41:13.000 Yeah, be one people again.

00:41:14.000 That's a different thing.

00:41:15.000 E pluribus unim.

00:41:16.000 They don't believe in e pluribus unim.

00:41:18.000 They don't believe in the American trinity of in God we trust, liberty or e pluribus unum.

00:41:22.000 Nope.

00:41:23.000 In fact, I think that anti-white racism goes after every single one of those things.

00:41:29.000 The important component that I hope people realize from this conversation, and Jeremy's really putting himself out there, is we must be unafraid to speak about these topics openly.

00:41:38.000 And if they call you racist, just laugh it off and keep on fighting.

00:41:43.000 You know who you are.

00:41:45.000 You know what you believe.

00:41:47.000 And they throw around the bigot label like a frisbee because they can't have substantive conversations about these things.

00:41:54.000 Absolutely, Charlie.

00:41:55.000 And if I can kind of make a plea for folks to purchase this book, if you know anything about the economics of books, I'm not going to get rich, sadly, from you.

00:42:04.000 You buy this book.

00:42:05.000 Unless this becomes white fragility. 0.90

00:42:06.000 Right. 0.77

00:42:06.000 Unless this becomes white fragility, then I'll get rich. 0.77

00:42:08.000 But what it does do is if this book sells enough copies, it tells publishers, oh, you know, there's an audience that wants to read about this stuff.

00:42:17.000 And it will encourage other people to write about it.

00:42:19.000 It will encourage publishers to publish about it.

00:42:22.000 So purchasing this book, reading about it, telling your friends it's a force multiplier, just like Charlie, you speaking out so courageously on this issue is.

00:42:29.000 If you have white grandkids, you have to educate yourself on this.

00:42:32.000 Yeah, absolutely.

00:42:34.000 I mean, we are entering a sinister, I don't want to say, I don't want to even say Jim Crow, but the same sort of idea pathogens that created the evil policies that we learned about in the 50s or 60s, they're re-emerging.

00:42:47.000 In fact, many of them are already here.

00:42:49.000 Yeah, that's absolutely right.

00:42:50.000 The unprotected class, how anti-white racism is tearing America apart.

00:42:53.000 Jeremy, thanks so much.

00:42:54.000 Thanks so much for having me on, Charlie.

00:42:55.000 God bless, man.

00:42:56.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:42:57.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:42:59.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

00:43:03.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - April 17, 2024

American Elites' War on White People

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