The Charlie Kirk Show - An Immigration Shutdown Is President Trump's Big Winning Issue

00:00:03.000 My name is Charlie Kirk.

00:00:05.000 I run the largest pro-American student organization in the country fighting for the future of our republic.

00:00:11.000 My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth.

00:00:14.000 If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're going to end up miserable.

00:00:19.000 But if the most important thing is doing good, you'll end up purposeful.

00:00:24.000 College is a scam, everybody.

00:00:26.000 You got to stop sending your kids to college.

00:00:27.000 You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible.

00:00:31.000 Go start a Turning Point USA college chapter.

00:00:33.000 Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter.

00:00:35.000 Go find out how your church can get involved.

00:00:37.000 Sign up and become an activist.

00:00:39.000 I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade.

00:00:41.000 Most important decision I ever made in my life.

00:00:43.000 And I encourage you to do the same.

00:00:45.000 Here I am.

00:00:46.000 Lord, use me.

00:00:48.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:49.000 Here we go.

00:00:56.000 The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.

00:01:09.000 I'm Andrew Colvett, executive producer of this show, and Blake Neff, one of the producers here.

00:01:14.000 And also, excited about this guest, Rich Barris, the people's pundit, big data poll.

00:01:20.000 Rich, welcome back to the show.

00:01:23.000 We had an eventful weekend.

00:01:25.000 I actually tuned in for one of your streams, rather.

00:01:27.000 It was very entertaining.

00:01:28.000 You were fired up.

00:01:30.000 And we were going back and forth on the prediction that I made instantly.

00:01:34.000 As soon as I heard this, I was like, I know two things are going to be true.

00:01:38.000 The media is going to rage.

00:01:39.000 And two, this will be extraordinarily popular.

00:01:43.000 And of course, I'm referring to the third world immigration moratorium that President Trump announced on Wednesday night, Thursday morning, depending on what time zone you're in.

00:01:52.000 It was a late message he sent off.

00:01:54.000 So, Rich, you came to my defense.

00:01:58.000 You said, Andrew's going to be proven right.

00:02:00.000 And you immediately launched some polling on this, which I think is super fascinating.

00:02:05.000 I don't know where you're at in the process, Rich, if you're done or if it's still ongoing, but I would love to hear what your results are showing.

00:02:11.000 It is still ongoing.

00:02:12.000 I don't know if you had time to check out the graph that I sent.

00:02:15.000 I sent it kind of late because it is still ongoing, but we did.

00:02:19.000 We said, you know what?

00:02:20.000 We're going to poll this right away.

00:02:22.000 And I had an idea.

00:02:23.000 You know, I had an idea of what it would show, Andrew, because, you know, you talk to enough voters, you know what they want after a while.

00:02:31.000 But we went in the field and this thing has not pulled below a majority for the three days we've been in the field.

00:02:38.000 Among likely voters, it's actually higher, just to show people.

00:02:41.000 Yeah, I was just going to tell them this is where we're at with it right now.

00:02:44.000 I mean, you're looking at about a third who opposes it combined.

00:02:47.000 And you can tell who they are, right?

00:02:49.000 We're talking about the left.

00:02:51.000 And by the way, there are significant chunks of Democrats who support this.

00:02:55.000 But overall, independents and Republicans, Andrew, this thing is popular.

00:03:00.000 Among likely voters, it's actually 57%.

00:03:03.000 It's plus 24.

00:03:05.000 So, I mean, we just don't see policies this popular very often anymore in this country.

00:03:11.000 We're so polarized that when you talk about issues like voter ID, things like that, you'll get up to, you know, 70% plus.

00:03:21.000 But we just, we, we have a hard time in this country, unfortunately.

00:03:24.000 It's just the state of our politics.

00:03:25.000 We have a hard time reaching consensus like this on anything.

00:03:29.000 And this is a consensus.

00:03:31.000 It's enormously popular.

00:03:32.000 Well, and look, you know, two things that stand out to me is you've got 10% apparently that are like unsure.

00:03:38.000 I don't know what you're unsure about.

00:03:39.000 But you look at strongly support versus strongly opposed.

00:03:43.000 Strongly support is at 34.1%.

00:03:46.000 It's that big piece of the pie right there.

00:03:48.000 The strongly opposed is only 19%, Rich.

00:03:52.000 That's yes.

00:03:52.000 I mean, you have a way bigger core of support for this pop this policy that supports it versus those who oppose it.

00:04:00.000 That to me is a telltale sign that this is going to be massively, massively energizing for the base, which I bring up, Rich, because you and I, last time you were on, we talked about how there was too much focus on foreign policy, there was too much focus on things that were abroad and abstract.

00:04:17.000 People wanted to focus on domestic, and it was like in one fell swoop, in one tweet, it was like the grab bag of goodie bags for the MAGA movement.

00:04:27.000 And it's like instantly, President Trump is a hero again on X and all the other social platforms with the base.

00:04:33.000 Month can do wonders in politics, can it?

00:04:37.000 I mean, seriously.

00:04:38.000 And it's interesting too, because these very same people, you know, we always talk about Americans being generous.

00:04:45.000 These very same people are also willing to support a host of other things.

00:04:50.000 But when it comes to third world immigration, it is popular among everybody.

00:04:54.000 But also, you know, when it comes to that enthusiasm, that's what it comes for me.

00:04:59.000 I saw this as a just a shot in the left cheek for MAGA.

00:05:04.000 You can see it in the extremely enthusiastic numbers over the last two days.

00:05:08.000 The right still trails Democrats as far as excitement to vote, but the gap closed.

00:05:14.000 I haven't seen it close in a long time, Andrew.

00:05:16.000 It's weeks and weeks and weeks.

00:05:18.000 Democrats have said they are more likely to vote.

00:05:21.000 They're more extremely enthusiastic about voting.

00:05:24.000 And for the first time, we saw this thing shoot up among Republicans.

00:05:28.000 They're almost at parity now with likely to vote, which I'll be honest with you.

00:05:33.000 I don't think will hold unless we continuously see more stuff.

00:05:37.000 I think it's probably likely that Democrats will end up, you know, being more certain.

00:05:42.000 That's the nature of the coalition these days.

00:05:44.000 But as far as that excitement number, Republicans shot up like eight points, Andrew, just from just from this.

00:05:51.000 I mean, that's a wow.

00:05:53.000 It says a lot.

00:05:55.000 They've been trailing badly.

00:05:57.000 Say that again. 0.71

00:05:57.000 We shot our enthusiasm metric in your polling shot up eight points from this tweet alone. 0.71

00:06:04.000 It did.

00:06:04.000 And they've been trailing badly by double digits for a long time.

00:06:08.000 So we'll say, you know, how likely are you to vote in the 26 midterms?

00:06:12.000 And now, how enthusiastic are you for everything from extremely, very, moderately, slightly, not at all, right?

00:06:18.000 And on that extremely number, that's the only thing we ever care about because even when people say they're very enthusiastic, if you're not picking extremely, you're not enthusiastic, right?

00:06:30.000 I mean, just it's just, and by the way, on that 10%, what are you unsure about?

00:06:34.000 They're unsure whether they want to tell the pollster the truth or not.

00:06:37.000 That's what they're unsure, but they're not really unsure, most of those people.

00:06:40.000 They just don't want to go on record saying, yeah, I want to cut off immigration from third world countries, right? 1.00

00:06:46.000 I mean, it's just, that's what it comes down to.

00:06:48.000 People are still, you know, uncomfortable with some of these talking to people, perfect strangers, pollsters, about their opinions on some of these issues.

00:06:56.000 They want to look like they're generous.

00:06:59.000 They want to look like they're decent.

00:07:00.000 But when you get when you're in private with them and they have anonymity, then I'm telling you, they have a totally different point of view.

00:07:09.000 They just don't want to tell the pollster that it really is interesting.

00:07:12.000 I love to think of politics almost as like a battle in the military where you have to occupy good terrain and you want to be on defense versus offense.

00:07:21.000 And it occurs to me on the immigration issue, how much you can totally reframe it in your favor with basically the exact same policies if you're making it so the big debate that they're attacking you over is, oh, he's keeping out people from the third world versus, oh, here's these videos of him.

00:07:37.000 They're deporting people.

00:07:38.000 Here's this crying child.

00:07:39.000 And it's really mean.

00:07:41.000 And you can be doing the exact same things, but if you make it so the contested ground is, I don't want to let in welfare charges from the third world, I suspect the Democrats won't be able to help themselves from attacking him over it. 0.99

00:07:54.000 And yet it's as Rich says, it's going to be a big winner.

00:07:57.000 No, you're right.

00:07:58.000 It's funny because President Trump is at his strongest when he is playing offense on immigration and law and order, crime.

00:08:06.000 So by the way, he's getting the memo, Rich, by the way.

00:08:09.000 167, throw it up.

00:08:10.000 President Trump truthed social tweet from me and then a tweet from Jack Pasovic saying Trump's moratorium on third world migration will be his most popular policy to date.

00:08:22.000 And he truthed that, which I was very honored by.

00:08:25.000 And I think it's important we get the message out that we can play offense on this issue.

00:08:29.000 Not only is it the best thing for the country, not only is it wildly popular with the base, but it will increase your enthusiasm numbers.

00:08:36.000 This is like such a shot in the arm.

00:08:40.000 It's truly remarkable.

00:08:41.000 I'm so thrilled to see that A, the prediction was right, but B, that our enthusiasm numbers are going through the roof again because this is what people voted for in November.

00:08:51.000 They wanted to see this constant, you know, we call it the one switch that fixes all that ails you, right, in our country.

00:08:58.000 So many issues from cultural cohesion, the division, the welfare charges, fraud, the cultural displacement that most people just feel in their communities now.

00:09:10.000 They don't feel like they're living around their neighbors or people that they trust or know or relate to anymore.

00:09:14.000 And this has all happened within basically 20 years.

00:09:17.000 And the demographic and the birth rates of native-born versus foreign-born citizens, it's not looking good either.

00:09:24.000 So this is going to have an echo boom after the fact.

00:09:27.000 And so I just, Rich, where else do you want to see the president go on this?

00:09:31.000 What needs to happen next to lock in these gains?

00:09:34.000 Yeah, I think this message, I think you can drive support for this higher, Andrew.

00:09:38.000 I do.

00:09:38.000 I mean, we had only a few days of this conversation so far.

00:09:43.000 It is in the wake of this tragic event, too.

00:09:45.000 So, you know, I think that Americans take a couple of days to process this.

00:09:49.000 You can beat this like a dead horse.

00:09:51.000 Beat it like a dead horse.

00:09:52.000 Because in truth, Americans do see immigration out of control, a completely broken immigration system as the root of a lot of our problems, right? 0.95

00:10:03.000 At the root of a lot of our problems.

00:10:05.000 So you just said, this is what I voted for.

00:10:07.000 And we don't just interview people, you know, telling them to take the questionnaire and we just want, you know, your numbers and we're done with you.

00:10:15.000 If they are willing to, we want to speak to them and have them elaborate on why they, you know, they feel the way they do right now.

00:10:22.000 And you just echoed a ton of people that said just that.

00:10:26.000 Like, this is what I voted for.

00:10:28.000 This is what I voted for.

00:10:29.000 Amen.

00:10:32.000 In business, they say you can have better, cheaper, or faster, but you can only pick two.

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00:11:34.000 We have Rich Barris, the People's Pundit, Big Data Poll.

00:11:38.000 Rich, you said another, I guess, poll that you're conducting that is pretty discouraging, but it's exactly what Charlie had predicted: that we are at a fork in the road.

00:11:50.000 Culturally, politically, where on the one side we have Mangionism, we have Mamdaniism, on the other side, we have MAGA.

00:11:58.000 One is national, populist, conservative, renewal, revitalization of the nation state.

00:12:04.000 The other is deep into socialism.

00:12:07.000 And you're doing some polling on people that identify as Democrats, and you dug even deeper, which I think is really important.

00:12:15.000 This is cut image 165.

00:12:18.000 Please throw this up. 0.76

00:12:19.000 And you have that about 60% of this party now self-identifies as either a Democrat socialist or just a pure socialist.

00:12:31.000 Explain this graph that we're looking at here, Rich.

00:12:34.000 Okay, we have to drop the pretense here.

00:12:37.000 This is for people who don't know.

00:12:39.000 Maybe they're listening on radio.

00:12:41.000 We've been asking just the same way that we ask Republicans: do you identify as America first or do you identify with traditional Republicanism?

00:12:48.000 We also ask Democrats whether or not they identify as a traditional liberal, Democratic socialist, or socialist.

00:12:55.000 And we have got to drop the pretense that the Democratic Party still believes in things like traditional liberalism.

00:13:01.000 They don't.

00:13:02.000 Andrew, that number as a traditional liberal has collapsed.

00:13:07.000 And the amount, the acceleration in this trend is unbelievable.

00:13:12.000 But this is a party of socialists now.

00:13:15.000 They are.

00:13:16.000 And we have to stop pretending that there's still such a thing as a moderate Democrat.

00:13:22.000 They're not.

00:13:22.000 Even in our numbers with ideology, they'll call themselves socialists and then describe ideologically as a moderate.

00:13:29.000 Come on, that's not, that's just not reality.

00:13:33.000 Nowhere on the American political spectrum is a moderate a socialist, right?

00:13:38.000 That is somebody who is far, far left.

00:13:40.000 But the truth is, they don't even view themselves as liberal.

00:13:44.000 So the liberal number for ideology has hung around 22 to 25% for a long time, as this number has skyrocketed.

00:13:51.000 So, guys, half the party is going to identify with Democratic socialism.

00:13:56.000 And sometimes that number with socialists gets as big as 10%.

00:14:00.000 So, yeah, you're looking at six in 10 Democrats who identify with some form of socialism.

00:14:06.000 And that's the reality, right?

00:14:08.000 And you did see Republicans, you know, what did they do?

00:14:11.000 They passed a bill censuring socialism or something like that.

00:14:14.000 I mean, we have to have just a more, I think we need to have a more open conversation because we're going to end up with either right-wing populism in the form of MAGA, or we're going to end up with what is always sold as a left-wing populism, but it's not.

00:14:29.000 There's nothing populist about it.

00:14:31.000 It doesn't end with populism.

00:14:32.000 It ends with democide.

00:14:34.000 It literally took the most human souls of anything in the 20th century.

00:14:39.000 War couldn't keep up with democide from socialist governments in the 20th century, folks.

00:14:44.000 There were more people killed by governments of left-wing fanatics than there were people who died in the great wars combined.

00:14:52.000 I mean, this is serious.

00:14:54.000 Yeah, it's very serious.

00:14:54.000 But Blake, I throw to you on this.

00:14:56.000 How much of this is just like uneducated liberals basically going, oh, I want Norway and Sweden?

00:15:03.000 I don't think it is uneducated.

00:15:04.000 I think a lot of it is, it's a rise of, frankly, I think it's the third worldification of America.

00:15:09.000 And it's one of the bleakest ones because you look at why are a lot of countries just chronically not able to get it together.

00:15:16.000 And a lot of it is because it actually takes a lot of discipline and a lot of patience to make good economic policies work.

00:15:24.000 A lot of them are counterintuitive, whereas socialism has a lot, like a lot of socialist impulses have a very innate appeal to people.

00:15:32.000 It kind of appeals to the morality of like the village base moralities.

00:15:36.000 Yeah, the base morality.

00:15:37.000 Not based, base, raw instincts.

00:15:40.000 And so you get what happens.

00:15:41.000 Argentina before Malay, that was a good example where they just had a lot of very backwards policies that it was very difficult for them to break out of. 0.98

00:15:49.000 And they made themselves a poor country.

00:15:51.000 And this happens in a lot of Latin American countries.

00:15:54.000 They'll grow, grow, grow, grow.

00:15:55.000 Oh, actually, it's time for us to do socialism.

00:15:57.000 And they screw it all up.

00:15:59.000 Mexico did this repeatedly.

00:16:00.000 And it's really hard to get rid of that.

00:16:02.000 Mexico had collective farms throughout the 20th century.

00:16:05.000 Absolute disaster, complete failure, incredibly popular.

00:16:09.000 And you could very easily get that.

00:16:11.000 You see that in New York.

00:16:12.000 Every economist will tell you rent control, incredibly dumb idea.

00:16:16.000 It makes New York vastly more expensive to live in.

00:16:18.000 And Ma'am Donnie just ran on, I'm going to do a stronger rent control, a rent freeze. 1.00

00:16:23.000 All their housing is going to, all their problems will get worse with that.

00:16:27.000 It'll be popular.

00:16:28.000 Yeah.

00:16:28.000 Rich, do we have any idea when you're polling this, like how many are foreign-born or immigrants that you're doing?

00:16:37.000 We do.

00:16:38.000 And I actually just sent it to you, but let me read it right off the screen because we do ask whether or not you're first generation, second generation, third generation, or you are foreign-born.

00:16:48.000 Among those who are second and third generation, those numbers are much lower.

00:16:52.000 Among those who are not U.S. born, they're foreign-born, which I just sent to you, it's much higher. 1.00

00:16:58.000 So Democratic, well, not much, but it's higher.

00:17:00.000 Democratic socialism identification rises to 60% among those who are foreign born.

00:17:07.000 And socialism, straight up socialism, rises to 12%.

00:17:11.000 So yes.

00:17:12.000 So I had a feeling Blake was on to something.

00:17:14.000 I just needed a second to go through the selector.

00:17:17.000 It's literally a dropdown.

00:17:18.000 You know, give me all of those who are just foreign born. 1.00

00:17:21.000 And there it is.

00:17:22.000 And the reason we ask that, we don't always throw this in all of our polling.

00:17:26.000 We will from now on because we're, I don't, we, we did for years.

00:17:30.000 I don't, I honestly don't know why we stopped.

00:17:32.000 But when we poll something about immigration specifically, we'll make sure it's in there.

00:17:36.000 So we were very lucky to have this in there and be able to answer that question.

00:17:40.000 So Rich, you're basically saying we're importing a bunch of people that want to take from productive members of society, tax them into oblivion, wider, richer neighborhoods, if you will, to quote Mamdani's political platform.

00:17:53.000 And they basically want to destroy the growth prospects of the United States.

00:17:57.000 Am I reading that right, Blake?

00:17:58.000 Is that about it?

00:18:00.000 That's what the data is saying.

00:18:02.000 I mean, that's what it comes down to.

00:18:04.000 It's also predictable and frustrating, Rich.

00:18:07.000 That's what makes me so annoyed at this.

00:18:10.000 We do need an immigration moratorium. 1.00

00:18:11.000 We do need remigration. 1.00

00:18:13.000 We need to get these people out. 0.83

00:18:14.000 We need to make sure that their 15 children are not indoctrinated in the same ideologies and filling up our classrooms with this garbage.

00:18:21.000 We got a quick question from Chris in our emails.

00:18:23.000 He says, please define the term democratic socialism.

00:18:27.000 And I will tell you what it is.

00:18:28.000 It is socialism, but they call it democratic to try to say, we're not the communists who are going to shoot you.

00:18:34.000 It's got a better brain.

00:18:35.000 It's got a better brain.

00:18:36.000 They're like, I still support democracy.

00:18:38.000 I don't support the dictatorship of the proletariat, basically.

00:18:42.000 Unfortunately, we're kind of coming big circle.

00:18:45.000 What did Turning Point USA start with?

00:18:47.000 It was Charlie saying socialism sucks on college campuses because, you know, Obama's America and all of that.

00:18:52.000 And we're looping back around to that.

00:18:54.000 It is important to remind people, socialism does suck.

00:18:58.000 It is very bad.

00:18:59.000 It has a remarkable track record of failure and a remarkable track record of coming back despite that.

00:19:05.000 Charlie was right again.

00:19:06.000 Rich Barris, thank you, my friend.

00:19:08.000 Excellent stuff.

00:19:09.000 We'll see you next time, my friend.

00:19:11.000 All the best, guys.

00:19:12.000 Take care.

00:19:15.000 Thanksgiving holds so many memories, and I'm sure it's the same for you.

00:19:20.000 Right now, there's a girl finding out she's pregnant. 1.00

00:19:22.000 In the next couple of weeks, she's going to make a decision.

00:19:25.000 And whatever decision she makes will become her memory of this Thanksgiving for the rest of her life.

00:19:31.000 What will she be thankful for a year from now?

00:19:33.000 You.

00:19:33.000 She'll be thankful that you introduced her to her baby by providing a free ultrasound.

00:19:39.000 And she'll be thankful that she chose life as she prepares for her baby's first Thanksgiving.

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00:20:17.000 Heather McDonald joins us, the great Heather McDonald. 0.85

00:20:22.000 She is one of the, I think, the absolute experts on what would be like on merit-based culture, on incarceration rates, on crime statistics.

00:20:35.000 And she's a contributing editor of the City Journal and author of When Race Trumps Marriage.

00:20:39.000 Heather McDonald, welcome back to the show.

00:20:41.000 Thank you so much, Andrew, and thank you for carrying on the Turning Point USA Legacy with such bravado and insights.

00:20:48.000 I really appreciate it.

00:20:49.000 Well, thank you, Heather.

00:20:50.000 Well, I'm just so honored to have you.

00:20:52.000 You're absolutely one of Charlie's most favorited guests ever.

00:20:57.000 I think.

00:20:57.000 I mean, there's not enough adjectives and superlatives to throw at you.

00:21:03.000 You know, he loved you, and your insights made a profound impact on this show and on Charlie's work and mission as well.

00:21:09.000 And I hope you internalize that and know that, Heather.

00:21:13.000 I'm absolutely honored to know that.

00:21:15.000 I wasn't aware, and so that means a huge amount to me.

00:21:19.000 Oh, yeah.

00:21:20.000 I'll never forget, actually, this is a fun story.

00:21:23.000 When everything happened with the BLM riots, Charlie, you know, we were sort of locked down still with COVID, and Charlie was like, We're going five days a week.

00:21:30.000 So that was actually when the show first went to five days a week, was right after the COVID lockdowns.

00:21:35.000 And you came on the show in those first few weeks and just dropped a ton of science on everybody about crime stats and how they were, you know, basically corrupt.

00:21:48.000 And we wrote them all down and we just started repeating them and repeating them and repeating them.

00:21:53.000 And it became a major theme of the show in those early days.

00:21:56.000 So thank you for your contribution then, Heather.

00:21:58.000 So, Heather, I sent you two questions over the holiday weekend, and you wrote back very graciously pretty quickly.

00:22:06.000 And this came off the back of this story in Chicago.

00:22:10.000 The first question was, you know, do we have an under-incarceration problem?

00:22:14.000 And I was, of course, inspired by Lawrence Reed, who set a woman on fire.

00:22:19.000 And then we find out there were 40 prior arrests, or maybe even 72.

00:22:22.000 I'm seeing conflicting reporting there on just how many times this gentleman had been arrested.

00:22:27.000 And of course, there was the Irina Zarutska story out of Charlotte, who was stabbed to death actually just before Charlie was assassinated.

00:22:36.000 It was a huge story then.

00:22:38.000 And she was just doing public transportation.

00:22:41.000 So two stories like this where we had multiple, multiple incarcerations.

00:22:45.000 Do we have an under-incarceration problem?

00:22:48.000 Heather McDonald.

00:22:49.000 We absolutely do, Andrew.

00:22:50.000 The criminal justice system, as set up by our elites, values the freedom of criminals and deranged people over the safety of the law-abiding and the hardworking.

00:23:02.000 Every one of these abominations was wholly predictable.

00:23:07.000 These deranged maniacs who have taken the lives or nearly destroyed the lives of this poor woman who was chased around a subway with gasoline on her until the maniac was able to light her on fire.

00:23:21.000 They all have long criminal histories.

00:23:25.000 The quality of their criminal history suggests people that are absolutely in the realm of psychosis, schizophrenia.

00:23:36.000 They were predictable, and yet they're back on the streets.

00:23:40.000 Why?

00:23:41.000 Because the overall theme in our criminal justice system for decades now, Andrew, has been we would rather not incarcerate the people who should be in prison than incarcerate criminals in a fair, law-abiding, constitutional manner, if doing so would have a disparate impact on black criminals.

00:24:02.000 And as a result, we are way under-incarcerating.

00:24:06.000 We're decriminalizing.

00:24:08.000 And the public officials who wink at these assaults are all complicit.

00:24:15.000 The criminal liability does not rest exclusively on the criminals themselves.

00:24:21.000 It is a statistical certainty.

00:24:24.000 I'm here in New York.

00:24:26.000 There are walking time bombs.

00:24:29.000 Anybody can identify them visually.

00:24:32.000 These deranged, lunatic, drug addicts, predominantly black, who are walking the streets, muttering, gesticulating, on the subways, threatening people. 1.00

00:24:43.000 It is a certainty that in the next week or two, somebody will be pushed or stabbed by one of these.

00:24:49.000 And our politicians do everything but focusing on this. 0.54

00:24:54.000 It's an abomination.

00:24:56.000 And, you know, we talked to the other, at the end of last week, just the sort of not just the cost of direct crime, but the cost on people, just the sense of disorder in our lives.

00:25:07.000 I'm sure you've seen this where, for example, because we're so afraid to actually place these people, basic things, you see people jump turnstiles all the time in a lot of cities because they decide to not enforce that.

00:25:19.000 Or even really minor ones.

00:25:20.000 The classic one that people will complain about all the time online is people who loudly play music or do other overtly performatively disruptive things on public transportation.

00:25:32.000 But it's bigger than that, too, because we've talked about on this show, Heather.

00:25:36.000 It was another insight from Blake, that crime has an impact on housing.

00:25:40.000 How affordability because there's fewer and fewer neighborhoods that are acceptable to live in for families.

00:25:46.000 And then they have to break the bank just to get into a neighborhood with a good school or that's not crime riddled or that they have to worry about walking with a stroller on the sidewalk.

00:25:54.000 Or how many people just choose not to take a job where they might be the most qualified person or where it might be where they're most productive because, oh, that job is in a dangerous part of the city or it's in a city I just don't want to live because it's so unpleasant.

00:26:07.000 There's so much friction in American life.

00:26:09.000 And it all is downstream of we just refuse to let our cities be safe, orderly, clean, and pleasant.

00:26:16.000 Yes.

00:26:16.000 And so I'm going to go to the next step.

00:26:17.000 Well, we just elected a socialist mayor in New York and the sky is going to fall in.

00:26:24.000 But one of his ridiculous planks was government run grocery stores in every borough because allegedly we have a food affordability crisis.

00:26:32.000 I'm very skeptical of the claim.

00:26:35.000 But if we do, the problem is that stores move out because they can't handle the shoplifting.

00:26:40.000 There was a Target that moved into East Harlem, a great fanfare around 2015, I think, had exquisitely multicultural offerings, and it couldn't handle the retail theft.

00:26:51.000 And so it left, you know, and that happens again.

00:26:54.000 So yes, crime affects cost of living.

00:26:57.000 It affects insurance costs, but it is above all a psychic cost.

00:27:02.000 And that, again, all of this is preventable.

00:27:05.000 It's all preventable.

00:27:07.000 It's preventable by closing Rikers, right?

00:27:09.000 Because I know he's promised to do that, right?

00:27:11.000 Right, exactly.

00:27:13.000 We need more capacity.

00:27:14.000 We certainly need more mental institutions.

00:27:17.000 So it's not just a question of locking up the sort of pure criminal.

00:27:21.000 It's also a question of locking up the deranged.

00:27:24.000 If you combine mental illness and drug addiction, you have a very, very high rate of violence.

00:27:30.000 Again, any politician who changes the subject after the burning of the Chicago woman, after the stabbing of Irina Zarutska, is complicit in murder.

00:27:44.000 So this is something else that I, because I was tweeting about this and I was seeing people's reaction.

00:27:50.000 And one of the things that kept coming up repeatedly is that we actually have a capacity issue.

00:27:55.000 And it struck me, Heather, that there has been a, I would say, a propaganda war waged against the prison system, right?

00:28:04.000 Now, some of it might have, there might be valid critiques embedded somewhere in there, right?

00:28:08.000 There might be grains of truth in this.

00:28:10.000 But the prison system, all I ever see on Netflix is like, you know, look at this terrible prison, how they treat people and all this.

00:28:17.000 Meanwhile, they got cell phones and they got like, you know, they're smoking cigarettes and all this stuff's going on.

00:28:21.000 They can watch TV.

00:28:22.000 They have prisoners who seem to have internet access.

00:28:24.000 Yeah, they got to do it.

00:28:25.000 They're coordinating like gang activity on the streets from some.

00:28:29.000 Anyways, that's not the point.

00:28:30.000 The point is that there has been a coordinated assault on the prison system.

00:28:35.000 I don't think we build them anymore.

00:28:37.000 I don't think we're expanding capacity.

00:28:39.000 And so even if we wanted to arrest and throw away the key with some of these guys, we don't have enough space.

00:28:47.000 Is this correct?

00:28:48.000 It's absolutely correct.

00:28:51.000 Prison remains a lifetime achievement award for persistence in criminal offending.

00:28:56.000 You have to work very hard as a criminal to get a prosecutor and a judge to agree on sending you away for a long time.

00:29:04.000 Inevitably, people are given community services, you know, probation.

00:29:12.000 They're supposed to be monitored.

00:29:14.000 And when they're out there without being incarcerated, they go on to commit more crimes.

00:29:19.000 People don't stop all of a sudden.

00:29:21.000 You know, it would be great if we could rehabilitate people in the community.

00:29:26.000 We don't know how to do it.

00:29:29.000 The criminals are created by decades of poor parenting, the failure of socialization.

00:29:36.000 And after they're arrested for their sixth robbery or assault, they don't suddenly stop offending.

00:29:44.000 The thing that works is prisoner menopause. 0.55

00:29:46.000 People age out of crime, but that's about the best thing we can do.

00:29:51.000 So getting incapacitation is an absolute known virtue and success of the prison system.

00:30:00.000 If we don't know how to keep people from reoffending in the community, my view is you don't get two bites of the apple, three bites of the apple.

00:30:08.000 We've got to bring it down much.

00:30:10.000 Again, the purpose of government is to protect the law-abiding.

00:30:15.000 It's not to protect criminals.

00:30:18.000 We have gone through a 300 or 180-degree sea change in the way our government officials think about themselves.

00:30:26.000 They think about themselves as protecting the allegedly marginalized against that horrible majority.

00:30:32.000 No, that's not their role.

00:30:34.000 Their role is to protect people who respect the rights and lives of others so they can go about the glory of commerce, of self-actualization.

00:30:45.000 We don't elect the government to be self-professed advocates for the criminals and the dysfunctional.

00:30:52.000 That's not their role.

00:30:54.000 Heather, I think you're articulating this feeling of the upside-down world that so many Americans feel like they live in so well and with such moral clarity.

00:31:03.000 And this is why we love having you on the show.

00:31:05.000 It does feel like the entire system somewhere along the line, the last 20, 30 years, tweak by tweak by tweak, became rigged against people that do the right thing, that wake up, that go to work, that shower before and after work, that send their kids to school, that pay their taxes and follow the law.

00:31:22.000 Meanwhile, it's been tweaked in favor of these people that murder Irina on the train or set people on fire.

00:31:30.000 By the way, you're talking about criminal menopause.

00:31:32.000 I guess it was like 50, and he was still doing this stuff.

00:31:36.000 This is Lane Schoenberger, Chief Investment Officer and Founding Partner of YReFi.

00:31:41.000 It has been an honor and a privilege to partner with Turning Point and for Charlie to endorse us.

00:31:47.000 His endorsement means the world to us, and we look forward to continuing our partnership with Turning Point for years to come.

00:31:53.000 Now, here Charlie, in his own words, tell you about YReFi.

00:31:56.000 I'm going to tell you guys about whyRefi.com.

00:31:58.000 That is YREFY.com.

00:32:01.000 WhyReFi is incredible.

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00:32:05.000 WhyReFi is refinancing distress or defaulted private student loans?

00:32:09.000 You can finally take control of your student loan situation with a plan that works for your monthly budget.

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00:32:18.000 WhyReFi can get them released from the loan?

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00:32:24.000 Go to whyrefi.com.

00:32:26.000 That is why FY.com.

00:32:29.000 Let's face it, if you have distress or defaulted student loans, it can be overwhelming.

00:32:33.000 Because of private student loan debt, so many people feel stuck.

00:32:36.000 Go to yrefi.com.

00:32:37.000 That is why.com.

00:32:40.000 Private student loan debt relief, yrefi.com.

00:32:45.000 So Daisy on the team just told me something, just went live on thecharlikirkstore.com.

00:32:52.000 So if you could throw up 172, this is pretty cool.

00:32:54.000 We have Freedom Crew Necks now, which is like very, very, I didn't even know this was happening.

00:33:01.000 They look gorgeous and high quality, made in America, the official freedom shirt.

00:33:05.000 So it was actually Daisy and Charlie who designed the original Freedom shirt.

00:33:11.000 And so that just came from our team here.

00:33:13.000 And then it's become this international iconic symbol.

00:33:17.000 And I love it.

00:33:19.000 And our email is freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:33:22.000 These are all from Charlie.

00:33:24.000 So we have it now in crew neck sweaters, which is awesome.

00:33:27.000 So check it out there.

00:33:28.000 CharlieKirkstore.com, pick it up.

00:33:30.000 And we are all caught up in orders.

00:33:31.000 I know a lot of you guys ordered stuff and it was like delayed because it was just taking a long time.

00:33:36.000 But we are all caught up.

00:33:37.000 So check that out as well.

00:33:40.000 I am going to play, oh, check this out.

00:33:43.000 Another piece of housekeeping.

00:33:44.000 Throw up 178.

00:33:45.000 This is out of this is in New York Times.

00:33:48.000 So Heather's in New York. 0.81

00:33:49.000 And they have Charlie.

00:33:51.000 So these are our friends at Rumble talking about Amfest coming up.

00:33:55.000 And so this is in New York Times right now, which is very, very cool.

00:33:59.000 Mamdani has to look at it.

00:34:01.000 So, you know, poor Mamdani.

00:34:04.000 And then, so this was actually the pivot that I was planning here.

00:34:11.000 And this is Blake's favorite person, Wajahat Ali.

00:34:15.000 173, and this will kind of pivot to what we're going to talk about with Heather.

00:34:19.000 173.

00:34:20.000 Now it's on you.

00:34:21.000 You want to blame all Afghans for this crime? 1.00

00:34:23.000 Okay, using your logic, deport all white men. 0.99

00:34:26.000 Sorry, white men are the problem. 1.00

00:34:27.000 Number one mass shooters, white men. 0.63

00:34:29.000 Sorry, your rules.

00:34:30.000 So are white people more likely to break the law or immigrants?

00:34:36.000 Or does it matter?

00:34:37.000 Are we asking the right question, Blake?

00:34:39.000 Well, one of the answers is it doesn't matter because for Wahajali, it's like generally those are Americans. 0.97

00:34:45.000 Yeah.

00:34:45.000 And we don't have an obligation to bring any foreigner into America.

00:34:48.000 All right.

00:34:49.000 Heather McDonald, I'm going to play this clip from Jasmine Crockett and have you respond on the other side.

00:34:53.000 Let's go ahead and play Cut 123.

00:34:55.000 Now you want to go against every single immigrant. 1.00

00:34:58.000 That doesn't make sense.

00:35:00.000 And it's frankly not who we are because if that's the case, let's talk about the white supremacists and how many of them need to be kicked out of this country because I can guarantee you I can track down more crimes that they've committed because overall immigrants have a lower crime committal rate than white supremacists.

00:35:18.000 But we don't want to talk about that in this country.

00:35:20.000 We don't want to talk about that in this country.

00:35:22.000 Heather McDonald, your reaction.

00:35:23.000 I love to hear the left say, well, you don't want to paint an entire group with the sins of the one.

00:35:30.000 Oh, I see.

00:35:31.000 That's why we're all being packed off to white privilege training.

00:35:34.000 You know, that these numerous white supremacists and why the entire white races or Western civilization, Europeans are responsible for all the world's evils, which is, of course, a complete lie.

00:35:46.000 I just have to say, Western civilization has saved the world from poverty and penury and oppression.

00:35:51.000 But in any case, this is ludicrous.

00:35:57.000 The white supremacist killings are absolutely horrible, but they are very, very few.

00:36:03.000 We had in 2022, you had a 19-year-old who killed 10 people in a Buffalo grocery store.

00:36:09.000 Then we all remember 2015, Dylan Roof killed nine in a church in Charleston.

00:36:14.000 These are white-on-black crimes. 0.78

00:36:17.000 And he's sentenced to death.

00:36:20.000 Whites are not the ones committing crimes over all in this country.

00:36:25.000 The black-white crime rate is blacks are 35 times more likely to commit violence against whites than whites against blacks.

00:36:33.000 As far as immigrants go, it's a very difficult topic, Andrew, because we have really lousy data.

00:36:39.000 You know, if you're Wellesley, Massachusetts, or New York City jail, you have zero incentive to try and find out the immigrant status of people in your jail because if the feds ask to deport somebody after he's finished his sentence, you're not going to comply anyway.

00:37:01.000 So the data that we have for especially illegal alien offending is very, very scattershot and incomplete.

00:37:11.000 It depends as well on the source country, the ethnicity.

00:37:16.000 Asians generally have a much lower crime rate than everybody else.

00:37:21.000 Hispanics generally have a much higher crime rate than whites, but it's lower than blacks.

00:37:27.000 So generally, I would say my general rule of thumb is that by the second and third generation of immigrants, that's where you see crime going up as the children of immigrants assimilate into the underclass culture. 1.00

00:37:42.000 The first generation, again, it's hard to know, but the issue, I think, sometimes conservatives overstress crime and terrorism concerns, which need to be addressed, but the real issue is cultural change and whether any society has the right to say we prefer to stay the way we are.

00:38:06.000 We prefer a particular cultural heritage and we should be determining our own immigration policy, not people living outside the country determining our immigration policy for us by virtue of their decisions to enter the country overwhelmingly illegally.

00:38:24.000 Well, I thought that was really, really well said.

00:38:27.000 We do tend, I think people tend to focus on the crime and the terrorism stuff because it's candidly easier to talk about than the cultural assimilation arguments, and it's less uncomfortable for like a country club republic.

00:38:39.000 They've been trained that it's not okay to just say, I want my country to be the way I remember it.

00:38:45.000 I want to bequeath it to my children and our posterity.

00:38:49.000 I want my country to remain my country and not become another person. 0.95

00:38:52.000 It doesn't feel like America in so many places of the country anymore.

00:38:55.000 Heather McDonald, when race trumps merit, throw up 174, buy her book, buy her stuff, follow her, give her all the support you can.

00:39:02.000 She is a national treasure.

00:39:04.000 Thank you, Heather McDonald, for making the time for us today.

00:39:07.000 Thank you, Andrew and Blake.

00:39:08.000 It's such an honor.

00:39:09.000 Thank you.

00:39:11.000 You know, in the case of Europe, we know that the crime rates are higher for the immigrants. 1.00

00:39:16.000 Saying.

The Charlie Kirk Show - December 02, 2025

An Immigration Shutdown Is President Trump's Big Winning Issue

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