The Charlie Kirk Show - Andy Biggs for Governor of Arizona!

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here, live from the Bitcoin.com studio.

00:00:04.000 Big news, we have endorsed Andy Biggs for governor of Arizona.

00:00:07.000 The entire Turning Point Action machinery is getting behind the true conservative endorsed by President Trump.

00:00:13.000 Andy Biggs, the election is still a way out, but we are planting the flag, and I make the case as to why Andy Biggs will be a phenomenal governor, a great candidate, and why we need to unite behind Andy Biggs to be governor of State 48. Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

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00:00:43.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:44.000 Here we go.

00:00:45.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:47.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:49.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:52.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:55.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:57.000 He's an incredible guy.

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00:01:42.000 We're going to break some news here today.

00:01:44.000 We're really excited as we're broadcasting live in State 48 here in the beautiful state of Arizona.

00:01:49.000 We are going to make our endorsement official for the governor's race.

00:01:52.000 We have to win back the governor's mansion here in Arizona, and we are fully endorsing my friend, Andy Biggs.

00:01:58.000 Andy, we are behind you 100%, and we're excited to make you the next governor of the state of Arizona.

00:02:05.000 Thanks, Charlie.

00:02:06.000 You know, you are the leader in the conservative movement today around the country, and to have your endorsement and your team's endorsement, that means so much.

00:02:14.000 It's incredible.

00:02:16.000 We're going to win this thing, Charlie.

00:02:19.000 There's not a doubt in my mind.

00:02:20.000 Yes, and so tell us why you're running, and this is an incredible opportunity because this state voted for President Trump more so than any other battleground state.

00:02:31.000 We are increasingly a red state, but we have a Democrat governor.

00:02:33.000 We have a Democrat secretary of state.

00:02:35.000 We have a Democrat attorney general.

00:02:37.000 We have two Democrat senators.

00:02:39.000 And it all starts with getting you as governor.

00:02:41.000 Yeah, I think so.

00:02:42.000 We're on the cusp of turning this state red again.

00:02:44.000 And it has to go red again because if you think of everything from the border security problem that we had under this current governor, first thing she did, Charlie, was disband the Border Security Task Force, which has led to higher crime.

00:02:56.000 We're the gateway to fentanyl in the country.

00:02:59.000 Something like 50%.

00:03:00.000 50% of all fentanyl coming into the country comes through Arizona.

00:03:02.000 We've got to stop that.

00:03:03.000 So Trump's done a great job on the border.

00:03:05.000 We still have a problem there.

00:03:08.000 This governor has actually hindered the economic growth that we should be having.

00:03:15.000 Arizona's a great state, and there are businesses that want to come here and locate here.

00:03:18.000 She has not worked on deregulation.

00:03:21.000 She's not worked on creating energy.

00:03:23.000 She's not worked on making sure we had the water resources or the other infrastructure we need.

00:03:28.000 You know, that stuff has got to be taken care of.

00:03:31.000 Education.

00:03:32.000 I mean, how come our NAEP scores keep going down, but we keep spending more money on education in Arizona?

00:03:38.000 We need bang for the buck there.

00:03:39.000 And then I guess, ultimately, the prototypical thing for her is she has vetoed more bills than ever.

00:03:47.000 And here's one.

00:03:48.000 The election integrity bill.

00:03:51.000 We want to know who wins our election on election evening, right?

00:03:55.000 Not three weeks later.

00:03:56.000 Exactly.

00:03:57.000 Exactly.

00:03:58.000 Why is that so hard?

00:03:59.000 And she vetoed that.

00:04:00.000 We are the mockery of the country when it comes to counting our votes.

00:04:04.000 And so it was just a matter of doing it quicker.

00:04:06.000 As Florida does it, you must have all your votes in by a certain amount of time.

00:04:10.000 You must.

00:04:10.000 Yeah, that's exactly right.

00:04:11.000 And that's what our bill was modeled on Florida.

00:04:14.000 I have to tell you, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania members of Congress tell me sometimes, they say, we're grateful for Arizona.

00:04:20.000 The first time I heard it, I said, why is that?

00:04:21.000 And they said, because you make our elections look like they're run smoothly.

00:04:26.000 You guys are a disaster.

00:04:27.000 We're an embarrassment.

00:04:28.000 So these are things that we can take care of, Charlie, and we can do it the first time.

00:04:33.000 The first week that I'm elected, because I know how the place runs.

00:04:37.000 I served in the state legislature.

00:04:38.000 I know how that place runs.

00:04:39.000 I worked with two different governors.

00:04:41.000 I know how the executive branch works here in Arizona.

00:04:43.000 I wrote budgets for the state.

00:04:44.000 I know how you budget for the state.

00:04:46.000 I didn't even know all that background.

00:04:48.000 So you've worked in the cap as well, obviously being a fighter in D.C. Yeah, absolutely right.

00:04:53.000 So I wrote many state budgets.

00:04:56.000 And it's not hard if you actually...

00:05:00.000 Get into it and dig.

00:05:02.000 But we haven't had anybody that wants to do that.

00:05:04.000 And that's what we've got to do.

00:05:05.000 And if we do that, I think we're going to turn the state red again.

00:05:09.000 We could turn it into the Florida West.

00:05:10.000 Absolutely.

00:05:11.000 In fact, I told Byron Donalds.

00:05:12.000 I called him up when he announced, and I had already announced, and I said, Byron, you know what's going to happen about 90 days after we're elected?

00:05:19.000 And he said, no.

00:05:20.000 And I said, You're going to see a couple of red dots leaving you.

00:05:24.000 And he says, what's that?

00:05:25.000 And I said, that's our taillights.

00:05:26.000 Arizona's taillights as we go past you as the most conservative, productive state in the country.

00:05:32.000 There is such untapped potential here in this state.

00:05:34.000 And the people that are moving to Arizona are actually very Republican, very conservative.

00:05:38.000 And also, you are endorsed by President Donald Trump.

00:05:41.000 You are Trump-endorsed for this race.

00:05:43.000 Everyone needs to know that.

00:05:44.000 President Donald Trump has endorsed you, and we're honored to second that.

00:05:47.000 Yeah, I appreciate that.

00:05:49.000 Yeah, President Trump, I mean...

00:05:50.000 He and I have a great relationship.

00:05:51.000 I like to say, you know, it's one thing to have his endorsements, but it's another thing to, you know, have a personal relationship with a guy.

00:05:57.000 I mean, we're talking about we've golfed together, we've dined together.

00:06:01.000 For years you've had his back.

00:06:02.000 Yes, that's right.

00:06:03.000 Through the impeachments, through January 6th, you never wavered throughout all of that.

00:06:07.000 That's right.

00:06:08.000 In fact, I got investigated for standing with him.

00:06:11.000 No, I know.

00:06:11.000 The January 6th thing, they came after you pretty hard, and you never, ever wavered.

00:06:14.000 Ever.

00:06:15.000 Well, there was no need to waver.

00:06:16.000 He was in the right.

00:06:17.000 And, I mean, the Ukraine thing was a disaster, that bogus impeachment over that phone call.

00:06:24.000 I mean, Charlie, that was bogus.

00:06:26.000 But our colleagues, a lot of our colleagues, they kind of fled him.

00:06:29.000 But the reality is there were a lot of us there standing with him.

00:06:34.000 Late Nancy Pelosi impeachment.

00:06:36.000 And then the Mueller investigation.

00:06:37.000 I think it was one of the first ones.

00:06:38.000 I think it was me and Louie Gohmert that stood up and said, Mueller is compromised.

00:06:42.000 He should not be doing this.

00:06:44.000 And we had our own party saying, we want to do this investigation.

00:06:49.000 I'm like, that's bizarre.

00:06:51.000 Now Mueller ended up...

00:06:53.000 Not finding anything, which we knew he wouldn't.

00:06:55.000 So let's just focus again.

00:06:56.000 We're 100% behind Andy.

00:06:58.000 It's a ways out from the election.

00:06:59.000 We're doing this early to set the tone, to be very clear.

00:07:02.000 And we're going to be doing an event, by the way, together at the Arizona Biltmore, which kind of has some legend in Arizona politics.

00:07:09.000 We're doing that May 31st.

00:07:12.000 Everyone should come by.

00:07:13.000 It's at 2 p.m. at the Arizona Biltmore Resort.

00:07:17.000 That is two weeks, kind of an announcement.

00:07:19.000 Bigs for governor.

00:07:20.000 You're going to be working the state all summer.

00:07:22.000 I imagine.

00:07:22.000 You've already working your tail off.

00:07:26.000 Please, tell us.

00:07:27.000 Yeah, no, Charlie, you're right.

00:07:28.000 I've been all over the state.

00:07:32.000 We have 15 huge counties.

00:07:34.000 I was in one county, and I said, remind me how big our county is.

00:07:37.000 This county is as big as New Jersey.

00:07:39.000 So we have massive counties here, and I've been through the majority of those.

00:07:44.000 In fact, one of the counties I went to said, nobody comes to our county.

00:07:48.000 And I said, well, I am.

00:07:49.000 Was it Cochise or what was it?

00:07:50.000 It was actually Graham.

00:07:52.000 Oh, yeah, that's right.

00:07:53.000 Graham's kind of out of the way because you don't have a freeway to it.

00:07:58.000 That's lesser appreciated.

00:07:59.000 Yeah.

00:08:00.000 But that all adds up.

00:08:00.000 Going to all those counties add up.

00:08:02.000 Yeah.

00:08:03.000 I mean, the people are great.

00:08:04.000 They've been incredibly supportive, gracious, and welcoming.

00:08:07.000 And they all want this state to succeed, too.

00:08:09.000 I mean, so you've got the mineral counties.

00:08:12.000 You've got places that we should be doing.

00:08:15.000 Yes.

00:08:16.000 There's so much potential in this state.

00:08:18.000 By the way, we need more desal plants.

00:08:21.000 We need to build more, maybe even another nuclear plant.

00:08:24.000 But the AI revolution could be powered here in Arizona, the intellectual capital of this state.

00:08:31.000 And you represent the East Valley, Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa, Queen Creek.

00:08:36.000 Is that right?

00:08:36.000 That's right.

00:08:37.000 Santan Valley.

00:08:37.000 Yeah.

00:08:38.000 And so there is so much.

00:08:42.000 The best of America lives in the East Valley of Phoenix.

00:08:46.000 I believe that.

00:08:47.000 It's a family state.

00:08:49.000 Talk about that.

00:08:49.000 This is one of the most family-friendly states in the country.

00:08:52.000 We want to make it even more so.

00:08:54.000 Yeah, I mean, so everything from educational choice to support parents as they raise their children.

00:09:00.000 You want to have good, solid communities.

00:09:03.000 And we have some places that have fallen in hard times, I think because bad leadership.

00:09:09.000 Either on the local level or at the state level from our governor.

00:09:12.000 But you want to make sure that they're safe and can get out and have fun and play and grow as families.

00:09:17.000 But you also want to make sure that their jobs are there.

00:09:20.000 And Arizona could grow.

00:09:21.000 I mean, when you start talking about it, I've talked with the folks at TSMC when I went to Taiwan, met with those folks.

00:09:30.000 There is so much we can do there, Charlie, and you're right.

00:09:34.000 If we make sure our power grid is strong, provides reliable and dispersible energy, we're going to be able to welcome in the data centers.

00:09:44.000 And AI data, that's going to provide incredible jobs.

00:09:48.000 We have the employee infrastructure here.

00:09:51.000 When you start telling them that we have over 30,000 engineering students at ASU, you talk to these businesses, they're like, really?

00:09:58.000 They had no idea.

00:10:00.000 So we can get on this bus.

00:10:02.000 And build this state and provide these great jobs and then protect, you know, you've got to protect the water and the range management that we have to deal.

00:10:13.000 So forest has got to be taken care of.

00:10:15.000 This is a biodiverse state that people don't recognize.

00:10:19.000 You go 90 miles north of here to Payson, you think you're in Colorado.

00:10:23.000 I mean, you have incredible forest.

00:10:26.000 You have the Grand Canyon.

00:10:29.000 Right?

00:10:30.000 I think we have four national parks in this state.

00:10:32.000 We have down south in Tucson.

00:10:36.000 We have incredible beauty in this state.

00:10:38.000 I love it.

00:10:39.000 It's home.

00:10:40.000 But again, why are the Democrats running this state?

00:10:42.000 We have to stop it.

00:10:43.000 We have to end it.

00:10:44.000 We're going to talk about that in the next break.

00:10:45.000 I also need to ask you about the big, beautiful bill because that is some breaking news.

00:10:48.000 The website, though, is Biggs4Arizona.com.

00:10:51.000 B-I-G-G-S 4Arizona.com.

00:10:54.000 Chipping some money.

00:10:56.000 President Donald Trump has endorsed Andy Biggs for governor of Arizona, and you guys should give him all of your support.

00:11:02.000 Breaking news here, we're endorsing Andy Biggs for governor.

00:11:05.000 We're just following President Trump's endorsement.

00:11:07.000 The conservative running for governor here in Arizona, it's still a ways away.

00:11:12.000 We're still like, what, 15 months out?

00:11:14.000 But we're setting the tone early.

00:11:16.000 Biggsforarizona.com.

00:11:17.000 That is Biggsforarizona.com.

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00:12:19.000 We are here with Andy Biggs, the next governor of the great state of Arizona.

00:12:23.000 Still a ways out.

00:12:24.000 It's going to be a long campaign season, Andy.

00:12:26.000 Yeah, it is.

00:12:27.000 But you know what?

00:12:28.000 We've got to run through it, run through the tape.

00:12:30.000 Totally.

00:12:30.000 And get through it and win.

00:12:32.000 The breaking news is that the big, beautiful bill has failed in the Budget Committee.

00:12:36.000 I was just talking with my good friend here, Andy Biggs, soon to be Governor Andy Biggs of the state.

00:12:41.000 We're actually talking about I-11 and our good friend Mike Ingram.

00:12:43.000 We've got to build a highway from Phoenix to Las Vegas, but we'll talk about that at another time.

00:12:47.000 Very important.

00:12:48.000 We need a highway from Phoenix to Vegas.

00:12:50.000 But let's talk about the big, beautiful bill.

00:12:52.000 So you are in the House right now.

00:12:54.000 You're going to serve out your entire term while also running for governor.

00:12:57.000 This bill failed.

00:12:58.000 Is that a surprise to you?

00:12:59.000 Yes and no.

00:13:00.000 I mean, I knew the bill might be in trouble, but that there was enough votes to actually kill it in committee surprised me.

00:13:09.000 They're going to have to redo it and bring it back up, and no doubt working this weekend to try to get rid of some of the warts.

00:13:18.000 It's a big, beautiful bill.

00:13:19.000 There's a lot of beautiful stuff in it, Charlie, but it's got a few...

00:13:24.000 Warts and unsightly blemishes on the face of that beautiful bill.

00:13:29.000 Again, I support the President completely.

00:13:31.000 I support the White House.

00:13:32.000 I was just texting with the White House staff today.

00:13:33.000 I'd be like, hey, what's going on?

00:13:34.000 This is kind of disorienting.

00:13:35.000 I want to get my marching orders.

00:13:36.000 And they were really quick to respond.

00:13:38.000 But for my liking and for yours, this does not cut spending enough.

00:13:42.000 Is that fair to say?

00:13:43.000 Yeah, I think that's fair to say.

00:13:45.000 And then most of that spending reductions, Charlie, are taking place in the last two years of that 10-year cycle.

00:13:51.000 And as our experience tells us, they're just not going to cut.

00:13:53.000 They're not going to realize them.

00:13:54.000 Yeah, they're not going to get those cuts.

00:13:56.000 So explain to me that in the budget vote that just failed, was this as the president submitted it, or did Congress change what the president submitted?

00:14:04.000 The framework was largely there, but they changed the details.

00:14:10.000 So the way to think of it is you put a work requirement on able-bodied adults who are receiving benefits, right?

00:14:19.000 None of that kicks in until after President Trump's out of office.

00:14:22.000 And that's a $360 billion savings over 10 years, but it needs to be spread out over the whole 10 years.

00:14:28.000 And because, as you know, after President Trump's out of office, a new president or a new Congress could come in and just wipe that out and kill that savings.

00:14:37.000 Yeah, and so while, everybody, this is a little bit of a shocking news item.

00:14:42.000 This is not our last chance.

00:14:43.000 I mean, we could do votes forever.

00:14:44.000 I mean, what we did, 25 speaker votes.

00:14:47.000 Something like that, Charlie.

00:14:49.000 You had to go there, did you?

00:14:51.000 No, that's good.

00:14:52.000 I mean, look, Andy, he's a principled guy.

00:14:54.000 That's why we need him as governor.

00:14:55.000 No, but I'm saying, though, that we could do more.

00:14:57.000 Absolutely.

00:14:57.000 And we've got to get people back into the room and say, hey, we have to have real cuts and not just future projected, hope so promising cuts.

00:15:05.000 Because, as Steve Bannon would say, the bond markets get a vote, too.

00:15:09.000 And if we are going to ignore the fiscal apocalypse, the looming national debt and deficit, then what good are we doing here?

00:15:18.000 I'm with you all the way.

00:15:20.000 And we get back to, does it have to be a big, beautiful bill?

00:15:25.000 The tax package that's in there is pretty good.

00:15:29.000 Because it extends everything from the Tax Good Jobs Act.

00:15:34.000 But it also gives you the no tax on tips, no tax on seniors, no tax on overtime, those types of things.

00:15:42.000 I can't remember if there's a fourth one in there.

00:15:44.000 How about if you just did that bill first?

00:15:46.000 What would it look like if you did that bill?

00:15:49.000 I totally agree.

00:15:50.000 In fact, I was always a two-bill guy.

00:15:52.000 Again, I'm not in charge, and the president knows far more than I do, and I support whatever he decides.

00:15:57.000 But in my kind of elementary wisdom, I said that why don't we get a win the first 100 days on border and then do tax over the summer?

00:16:05.000 Well, you know, there were so many ways to do it.

00:16:08.000 The president wanted a big, beautiful bill.

00:16:09.000 And that's fine.

00:16:10.000 I get the mentality of it.

00:16:11.000 I get it.

00:16:11.000 Yeah, and I told him, I said, I actually support a big, beautiful bill if we use the leverage right to get everybody on.

00:16:19.000 I mean, so you have the salt states, right?

00:16:21.000 I mean, you've got a group of people there.

00:16:22.000 This is a huge thing.

00:16:23.000 Yeah, this is the state and local tax.

00:16:25.000 And they want other Americans to subsidize their high property taxes to the tune of about 250.

00:16:34.000 That $250 billion over 10 years was too little for them.

00:16:38.000 They wanted more.

00:16:38.000 We've got to keep SALTA.

00:16:40.000 But it's not even the high taxes.

00:16:42.000 We're subsidizing their bloated government programs indirectly.

00:16:45.000 So we're subsidizing the California Pension Fund because they can't get their fiscal act together.

00:16:51.000 That's exactly right.

00:16:52.000 It's an indirect subsidy to Democrat policies.

00:16:55.000 Totally correct.

00:16:56.000 I think the fact we got rid of SALTA during the first Trump cuts shocked me.

00:17:01.000 And I think we've got to keep SALT out of the way.

00:17:03.000 I think the SALT, state and local deduction, I know that blue state people lose their mind.

00:17:07.000 I'm sorry, guys.

00:17:09.000 But is it state and local or is it property taxes?

00:17:12.000 It's both.

00:17:13.000 I thought so, yes.

00:17:15.000 But the bottom line is, the offer, it was in the bill.

00:17:19.000 It was in this bill, Charlie, giving up to $30,000 deduction.

00:17:24.000 That would have cost us $250 billion plus.

00:17:26.000 But then people want to write off their property taxes.

00:17:28.000 I say no.

00:17:30.000 Property taxes also, unlike Chicago, they're funding all the public sector teacher unions.

00:17:33.000 The federal government should not give you any sort of alleviation.

00:17:37.000 Your local government should exist separate from the federal government budget.

00:17:42.000 Continue.

00:17:43.000 No, no, you're right.

00:17:44.000 I mean, that's what I call the restoration of federalism that Trump is actually getting into.

00:17:48.000 And he's doing a great job, and you see it all over what he's doing by cutting down the size of the federal government.

00:17:54.000 So there's just some other issues that I hope we work through.

00:17:58.000 Andy Biggs is going to come back.

00:17:59.000 We're 100% behind him.

00:18:00.000 Biggsforarizona.com.

00:18:01.000 We've got a big event coming up in two weeks.

00:18:03.000 Andy, keep fighting for what's right.

00:18:05.000 Thank you.

00:18:06.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:18:08.000 Charlie Kirk here.

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00:19:13.000 Joining us now is Dr. Thomas West, professor of politics at Hillsdale College, and just an overall phenomenal person.

00:19:20.000 Dr. West, welcome to the program.

00:19:21.000 Thank you for taking the time.

00:19:22.000 Yeah, happy to be here, Charlie.

00:19:24.000 So you are an expert, I would say, on how the founders would view certain issues, how they would view political matters.

00:19:32.000 How would the founders interpret the idea of birthright citizenship in its current form in this country?

00:19:40.000 The founders, of course, would have been happy with birthright citizenship for children of citizens.

00:19:47.000 And, of course, that's primarily what...

00:19:51.000 What birthright citizenship meant to them.

00:19:53.000 In today's world, there's this new idea, especially being promoted on the left, that birthright ought to apply to children who are not children of citizens, and in fact, who are citizens of other countries.

00:20:08.000 And even, of course, in the case of illegal.

00:20:11.000 So all of that.

00:20:13.000 But from the point of view of the founders, citizenship had a very distinct meaning.

00:20:19.000 You had to be a member of the society to be a citizen.

00:20:25.000 And what that meant was you are one of the people who makes, who agrees to and abides by the social compact.

00:20:34.000 What is that?

00:20:35.000 That is the social compact is the agreement among a group of individuals who decide we're going to be fellow citizens together.

00:20:44.000 Once that compact is formed, it's an agreement binding.

00:20:48.000 On the existing citizens to obey the law, but at the same time to enjoy the privileges of the law.

00:20:58.000 And that, of course, is very different from from what we're used to now, where citizenship has come to mean something like access to benefits and not too much.

00:21:12.000 We don't hear too much anymore about duties, things like.

00:21:16.000 Serving in the military, perhaps, in time of war.

00:21:19.000 But that's the basic outline.

00:21:23.000 And so for them, if you're somebody who wants to join an existing social compact, that's something that ought to be done only when there's consent on both sides.

00:21:38.000 The basic principle of the founding, all men are created equal, meant...

00:21:45.000 That you have a right to liberty, and that that right to liberty then expresses itself when you form a compact, when you agree with others to become part of a government.

00:22:00.000 And that means that once the government is formed, it has a right to liberty in regard to the rest of the world.

00:22:07.000 It gets to decide on its own policies.

00:22:10.000 So from then on...

00:22:11.000 Any relationship with non-citizens has to be based on either the voluntary consent, as in the case of immigration policy that permits immigration, or non-consent, in which case we close the borders or perhaps even go to war in the extreme case.

00:22:32.000 But that's what it means to be a citizen and to have a right to liberty.

00:22:40.000 Enforced and implemented by government.

00:22:43.000 And so we're far off that mark that the founders set and that they believed in.

00:22:52.000 Why would you say, I want to reiterate this because you understand natural rights very well, why was birthright citizenship or is birthright citizenship a denial of both natural rights of both citizens and non-citizens?

00:23:06.000 Right.

00:23:07.000 It's a denial of the rights of citizens.

00:23:09.000 Because of their inherent right to liberty, which is expressing itself in the form of a compact that makes its own rules for itself.

00:23:17.000 So when the Constitution says "we the people" of the United States, that's characteristic of the founders' way of thinking.

00:23:25.000 Government is only for the people who are part of the compact, no one else.

00:23:30.000 And so if anyone else in the world wants to join...

00:23:39.000 Then there has to be consent.

00:23:41.000 But why is it a violation of the rights of non-citizens to be told all of a sudden your children are citizens?

00:23:49.000 And that's because citizenship from the point of view of the founders is supposed to be based on consent both ways.

00:23:57.000 So if you happen to be here in America and have a child, say a tourist or something like that.

00:24:04.000 Who doesn't want to have it, you know, who didn't intend to make their kids into Americans.

00:24:08.000 All of a sudden, they're Americans.

00:24:10.000 And all of a sudden, then they're subject to the draft, subject to paying income tax for life, subject to any kind of claim that the United States government has a right to make on anyone who is a citizen.

00:24:22.000 And that's a denial of their right to liberty, right?

00:24:25.000 They were just, their attitude, their point, what their attitude might have been, I just came here to visit.

00:24:31.000 Not to find my kids all of a sudden stuck in this position of having all kinds of duties to America throughout their lives.

00:24:39.000 And that's why that's a violation of their rights as well.

00:24:43.000 That's why, from the point of view of the founders, it has to be consent both ways.

00:24:47.000 The citizens have to consent to the newcomers, and the newcomers have to consent to be part of America.

00:24:55.000 And we've so lost sight of that that it's really almost impossible any longer to discuss this topic without people getting confused about, I don't know, the rights of the whole world to welfare or health care or whatever it is that we have to offer here, better jobs, a better police force.

00:25:16.000 The whole concept of citizenship would exclude all of that.

00:25:22.000 The idea is that everyone else in the world is supposed to take care of themselves.

00:25:25.000 That's what citizenship means, both for us and for other nations.

00:25:29.000 Of course.

00:25:30.000 I mean, it's so self-evident that if you deprive other countries the ability to be self-reliant and to take individual responsibility, they will weaken.

00:25:41.000 And then you only actually further subsidize.

00:25:45.000 The decline of both their country and your own.

00:25:47.000 So there was, let's just say, a looming question some would have about citizenship, and some would argue that the 14th Amendment partly set that straight.

00:25:56.000 From the text of the 14th Amendment, I know that you're not a legal scholar, but you are a great historian.

00:26:02.000 What would you say about the 14th Amendment and how it connects to this idea of birthright citizenship?

00:26:08.000 Do you think the intent of the 14th Amendment and the way the founders viewed the structure of our government should apply to somebody on birth tourism?

00:26:15.000 No.

00:26:16.000 The 14th Amendment was written by people who were fully conscious of the principles of the founding and who quoted them all the time in the congressional debates.

00:26:25.000 This is common knowledge among scholars of that period.

00:26:31.000 So the idea that birthright citizenship should include the children of non-citizens was explicitly ruled out in the 1866 Civil Rights Act, which preceded the 14th Amendment by two years.

00:26:49.000 In the 66 Act, they explicitly said that the rights that they were listing in the law...

00:27:00.000 Did not apply to foreigners, which meant children of foreigners.

00:27:04.000 And when the 14th Amendment was written, instead of explicitly saying it doesn't apply to foreigners, they used the phrase that citizens had to be born here and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

00:27:23.000 And so subject to the jurisdiction from the point of view of those people who made the 14th Amendment was meant to be more or less equivalent to not subject to the jurisdiction of the US, meant subject to the jurisdiction of a foreign power.

00:27:41.000 So any citizen of another nation would automatically have been excluded from the 14th Amendment definition of citizenship.

00:27:50.000 And for a long time, that was understood in the legal community, in the courts, when it came to Questions arose of like, is so-and-so a citizen?

00:28:06.000 Quite a lot of time had to pass after the 14th Amendment before people began to introduce into it the much more strained and artificial reading, which I think is incorrect, that we are now living with.

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00:29:29.000 In closing here, Dr. West, the intent of the founders is lost on so many of our political leaders.

00:29:36.000 You teach a phenomenal course at Hillsdale College.

00:29:39.000 Inform our audience about your scholarship.

00:29:43.000 And the work that you do at Hillsdale College and primarily the work you've done on online courses to try to educate the masses on the founders' view of natural rights and the structure of the U.S. Constitution.

00:29:54.000 Yes, we've done a whole series of video courses at the college here.

00:30:00.000 I've been involved in a few of them.

00:30:04.000 I highly recommend those courses for people who are interested in this question.

00:30:11.000 My take on the founding, I think I would say, is not only a response to the leftist critique that the founders didn't really believe in equality.

00:30:21.000 We hear a lot about that.

00:30:23.000 And I'm almost a little bit tired of that debate.

00:30:26.000 It's so obvious that they did care.

00:30:28.000 But the other more interesting debate is a critique coming from the right.

00:30:32.000 The founders are too interested in liberty and equality and therefore prepare the way for what we have now in 20th, 21st century liberalism.

00:30:41.000 That's what my focus has been on.

00:30:44.000 And what I've been trying to show is that's not true.

00:30:49.000 The founders themselves were much more conservative than almost anybody today who goes under the name of conservative.

00:30:56.000 I'm going to keep you for another segment, Dr. West.

00:30:58.000 That is so interesting to me.

00:31:00.000 I'm going to keep that for another segment because I'm so glad you said it that way.

00:31:04.000 That was one of the great insights I've gathered from your work, because I'm told by professors and from activists on campuses, not Hillsdale, the founders were a bunch of liberals.

00:31:13.000 They were small-L liberals that were simply enlightenment, but your scholarship shows no.

00:31:18.000 Actually, they were far more conservative than you would ever give them credit for.

00:31:22.000 Dr. West, please tell us more about the founders, because I am told that they were liberals.

00:31:29.000 The common view on these campuses is that they were...

00:31:33.000 They were trying to change the structure of British governance and the declaration was fundamentally a small-l liberal statement.

00:31:42.000 What is your contention and what would you like to share with the audience?

00:31:47.000 I think the mistake that a lot of conservatives make is they hear the words equality and liberty and they just assume they have the same idea about that that people today do when they have Transform those terms into something very different from the founding.

00:32:05.000 You can just take the case of immigration itself, for example.

00:32:09.000 For the founders, the character of the people was fundamental to the future of a free country.

00:32:17.000 They didn't believe in anything goes.

00:32:20.000 They believed you had to have a people that had enough character, enough self-restraint, but also self-assertion, like courage, virtues like courage.

00:32:30.000 Vigilance, forthrightness.

00:32:31.000 They thought only that kind of a people would survive, would be able to maintain a free country.

00:32:38.000 And so immigration, right?

00:32:40.000 So they talked about this.

00:32:41.000 Well, where do we want our immigrants from?

00:32:42.000 And the answer predominantly was we need European immigrants.

00:32:45.000 We want people who are going to be able to assimilate, not just in the sense of being able to mouth the slogans, you know, all men are created equal, which is the way it's often discussed today.

00:32:56.000 But rather like people who had the right kind of character and the right kind of moral orientation to be serious and earnest citizens.

00:33:04.000 And you could say one of the ways in which you also see this element in the founding is their preoccupation with education, like moral education.

00:33:16.000 There had to be, from their point of view, a citizen body that understood virtues like justice, moderation, courage.

00:33:27.000 Topics that are discussed in several of the state constitutions as essential to a free country.

00:33:33.000 Conservatives today are often unaware of those kinds of features of the founding, and yet they were fundamentally, they were central from the point of view of the founders themselves.

00:33:44.000 And third example, you can take the family from the point of view of the founders.

00:33:48.000 The family was fundamental.

00:33:52.000 Family didn't mean gay rights and gay marriage.

00:33:54.000 It meant you want men and women to get together, marry, stay married, and raise responsible children.

00:33:59.000 They thought of that as a central feature, again, of a free society.

00:34:05.000 And we've just forgotten that.

00:34:08.000 We think today that the founders believed you could just do whatever you wanted to in regard to sex and reproduction.

00:34:15.000 And that element, again, that conservative element, we would call it today, of the founders, has been largely forgotten.

00:34:24.000 And just two minutes remaining, Dr. West, why do you think it's been forgotten?

00:34:28.000 Has it been an intentional omission, or has it just been gross negligence?

00:34:34.000 No, it's intentional.

00:34:36.000 The reason why people don't understand the founding anymore starts with...

00:34:41.000 The attack that began about 150 years ago on the founders, very explicitly during the early progressive era, starting in the 1880s.

00:34:51.000 And that attack became radicalized and deepened in the 1960s and 70s.

00:34:59.000 So their argument was, what the founders were doing was fundamentally racist, sexist, and homophobic, and therefore...

00:35:09.000 It should be rejected altogether.

00:35:12.000 That's on the one hand.

00:35:13.000 But on the other hand, they also made the argument of we can take over their terms.

00:35:17.000 We can use their language, the language of liberty, equality, freedom, constitutionalism, and turn that to our purposes.

00:35:25.000 And so those phrases have come to mean almost the exact opposite in many cases.

00:35:30.000 Of what people thought they meant in the founding.

00:35:33.000 And that was intentional.

00:35:34.000 They want us to think that what equality means is making everybody the same, giving everybody the same income, homogenizing the population, cutting down on people who have excellence, getting away from meritocracy, getting away from aspiring to excellence and strength.

00:35:55.000 That was, from the point of view of the founders, what liberty was for.

00:35:59.000 Full development of the human virtues and qualities that make man great when he is at his peak.

00:36:04.000 And now today, we've substituted for that in the same name, the name of equality and liberty, this other ideal, the ideal of making everybody the same, pushing us down into a kind of morass of mediocrity, and turning that into a definition of what virtue is and freedom.

00:36:25.000 And so, you know, that's unfortunate that...

00:36:28.000 That we no longer understand this, but it was.

00:36:30.000 No, it's part of an agenda that led to that change.

00:36:33.000 I totally agree.

00:36:33.000 And I think we need to be able to oppose that today.

00:36:35.000 Dr. West, phenomenal work.

00:36:37.000 Thank you for your impact on my life.

00:36:39.000 Everyone can learn more from Dr. West at charlieforhillsdale.com.

00:36:43.000 That's charlieforhillsdale.com.

00:36:45.000 Thank you, Dr. West.

00:36:45.000 Thanks.

00:36:46.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:36:48.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - May 16, 2025

Andy Biggs for Governor of Arizona!

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