The Charlie Kirk Show - Anthony Fauci Rewrites History with Rich Baris and Alex Berenson

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:00.000 Today at the Charlie Kirk Show, Rich Barris discusses the Tucker departure and also 2024 polling.

00:00:06.000 Alex Berenson talks about Fauci's return to public life.

00:00:10.000 Email us your thoughts as alwaysfreedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast.

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00:01:39.000 Joining us now is Rich Barris, who is from Big Data Polls.

00:01:44.000 Rich, welcome to the program.

00:01:46.000 Let's talk about Tucker's departure.

00:01:48.000 How do you believe this affects conservative media?

00:01:54.000 Let's play this out.

00:01:55.000 If Tucker remains off the airwaves through Election Day 2024, which seems to be a possibility due to contracts, how does that impact conservative media and the 2024 election?

00:02:08.000 I think it's indisputably a loss for the American right if Tucker stays off the air.

00:02:14.000 He was the lone voice, Charlie, that would not just, you know, for a long time, Fox News was the only outlet for the American right, but they were never fully on page with the energy of their party.

00:02:29.000 In fact, they opposed it quite a bit.

00:02:31.000 That's how Republicans ended up with Mitt Romney, right?

00:02:35.000 Tucker was different because Tucker, his rise was in part because of the rise of MAGA, but also because he had long held more libertarian that evolved into these views that are so widely shared by a part of the public that doesn't identify with Republicans, but agrees with them on wide issues.

00:02:57.000 Like, I don't want to go to war with Ukraine.

00:02:59.000 I don't want to go to war with Russia over Ukraine. 1.00

00:03:02.000 If, you know, I will help Ukraine, but if it means getting into a great power conflict, that's stupid. 0.98

00:03:07.000 And I don't want to do it. 0.98

00:03:08.000 All right.

00:03:09.000 Who did the January 6th footage go to?

00:03:12.000 There's just so much down the line during the pandemic.

00:03:15.000 Initially, he was pretty pro-lockdown, but he was one of the first nightly voices to come around.

00:03:21.000 And of course, he was in 2016, even before his rise, his big rise, he was someone who heard what was going on in the country.

00:03:32.000 So I think it's a massive blow.

00:03:34.000 There's a reason why he was the most watched APM prime time hour.

00:03:39.000 And it's a problem.

00:03:41.000 It's a problem for the right. 0.59

00:03:43.000 Yeah.

00:03:43.000 And so I'm trying to understand, you know, is there even possible for a replacement?

00:03:51.000 Do you think part of Tucker's power was in the 100 million homes he was able to get into, or is it Tucker himself?

00:03:58.000 Think he was able over seven years to build such a loyal audience that wherever he goes, he's going to take a lot of that audience with him.

00:04:06.000 Yeah, I think, you know, Fox didn't, you know, Fox needed Tucker.

00:04:10.000 I don't think Tucker needed Fox.

00:04:12.000 And I do think part of it is Tucker. 0.93

00:04:14.000 It's that, look, Charlie, staring into the camera when someone's saying something stupid, that Tucker, look, people, he had an appeal, still does, obviously, that people loved, but he also had built a record where people could appreciate and trust him. 0.95

00:04:29.000 So he would wade into these issues. 0.98

00:04:30.000 Nobody else, look, the Pentagon is celebrating in Politico today.

00:04:35.000 They ran to Politico and they're celebrating Tucker being off the air because of his critique of foreign policy and the conflict in eastern Ukraine.

00:04:46.000 There are also quietly, apparently, Republican lawmakers who are for instigation, escalation.

00:04:54.000 They're loving this.

00:04:55.000 So, I mean, that should tell us all we need to know.

00:04:58.000 Do you think Fox survives?

00:05:01.000 I think they have a major problem since 2015, which shouldn't shock anybody because of how they treated Donald Trump during the primary.

00:05:11.000 They took a hit in what's called the brand index and they never fully recovered.

00:05:14.000 They had some nice periods of happy times during the Trump administration because for a period there, what did they do?

00:05:21.000 They promoted Tucker.

00:05:22.000 They gave Laura Ingram more time.

00:05:25.000 And at that point, Hannity was pretty MAGA. 0.99

00:05:28.000 So they were riding high and Trump would call in the morning show on Mondays.

00:05:32.000 But if you take that little part out, Charlie, then you really have a pretty big, serious downward trend for Fox News.

00:05:41.000 And right now, they're appealing.

00:05:42.000 And you and I talk about this when it comes to elections all the time.

00:05:45.000 MAGA is young.

00:05:47.000 It's more diverse.

00:05:49.000 They're not watching Fox.

00:05:50.000 So to say this brutally and as blunt as I can, Fox's audience is going to die.

00:05:56.000 I mean, I don't know how they renew that loyalty.

00:05:59.000 I don't know how they find it.

00:06:01.000 And Tucker was pulling in that demo more than anything else.

00:06:04.000 So that let's talk.

00:06:06.000 I now want to talk about the 2024 election.

00:06:08.000 So, Rich, feel free to disagree.

00:06:09.000 I mean that.

00:06:10.000 I said yesterday Joe Biden is going to be hard to beat.

00:06:12.000 It's not about Joe Biden.

00:06:14.000 It's about a machine of ballot chasing, voter registration, billions of dollars of micro-targeted advertising.

00:06:19.000 And I just did a whole show the last hour about why the administrative state governmentally, from a policy perspective, likes Joe Biden.

00:06:26.000 Rich, I personally, I want to get away from polls.

00:06:28.000 I know that you do a lot of polls, but I think you would agree it's much more about ballot chasing and early voting operations and those sort of schematics.

00:06:35.000 Is that the way we should be thinking about 2024?

00:06:39.000 I couldn't agree more.

00:06:40.000 Yeah, I just couldn't agree more.

00:06:41.000 And this is why the number one question to me, because no matter who the Republican nominee is, Joe Biden is going to be extremely difficult.

00:06:49.000 I think it was very clear in 2022 that they did not give up.

00:06:52.000 This is like, I know a lot of Republicans think that this COVID ballot harvesting operation they had in 2020 was going to be temporary and that somehow that's not going to be that bad this time.

00:07:02.000 I think they're out of their minds and fooling themselves.

00:07:05.000 Democrats are going to turn out and they're going to turn out to vote for Joe Biden.

00:07:09.000 They're going to turn out because they have a machine to turn them out, because they're going to micro-target for ballots.

00:07:14.000 Because the voting window is so wide now, that doesn't require the physical work of getting human being A to polling place.

00:07:24.000 It just takes a piece of paper now into somebody's hands, which is illegal, but they do it anyway, or into a mailbox.

00:07:30.000 So they've basically shortened the logistical hurdle for the American Democrat Party.

00:07:35.000 And so, and then they have a 30-day window, and then they know in real time who is voting and who isn't.

00:07:39.000 Turnout is no longer really a thing, I think, anymore, Rich.

00:07:42.000 They're going to hit their benchmarks.

00:07:44.000 And if not, they'll just pour more money into it.

00:07:46.000 We saw it in Arizona.

00:07:47.000 When they were not hitting their benchmarks, they flew in 800 ballot chasers for Katie Hobbs.

00:07:52.000 And our strategy was like, well, I hope everyone shows up on election day.

00:07:55.000 It's not the way to victory.

00:07:57.000 That's right.

00:07:58.000 So no, Charlie, you and I are in total agreement with this.

00:08:01.000 Republicans, look, this is just my opinion. 1.00

00:08:04.000 Voters do what you're going to do, but Republicans fighting each other in a long, protracted primary is absolutely stupid. 1.00

00:08:11.000 It's that simple. 0.99

00:08:12.000 Yeah, so they don't know what they're up against.

00:08:14.000 A lab they don't understand.

00:08:15.000 So I call it.

00:08:17.000 Yeah, go keep going.

00:08:17.000 Fine.

00:08:18.000 I was just going to say they just don't understand what they're up against yet.

00:08:22.000 And I'm listening to some of these people talk about arguments, Charlie, like, oh, but this candidate will get these women in suburbs that don't like Trump. 0.97

00:08:30.000 And it's like, they are just like eight years too late.

00:08:34.000 You know, that's not what this is about anymore.

00:08:36.000 For me, the only way a Republican is going to beat Joe Biden, any Republican, is by having an appeal to a group of people that normally would not turn out for Republicans.

00:08:48.000 And then understanding that candidate has to understand that it's not just about persuasion anymore or galvanizing.

00:08:55.000 There needs to be infrastructure in place.

00:08:58.000 And I'm telling you right now, the argument about the suburban women, you're looking at nationally, maybe 6 million.

00:09:06.000 That's it, you know?

00:09:07.000 And this has been a problem for Republicans without Trump and before, actually.

00:09:13.000 This has been a downward trend in states like Arizona and Georgia for a while now.

00:09:17.000 So you need to inject a different voter into the electorate and you need to make sure you have the infrastructure to make it easy for them.

00:09:24.000 We actually went back and re-interviewed some people in Nevada.

00:09:28.000 Great example.

00:09:29.000 This guy who had said he was a Laxalt voter in Clark County, he said, and he still was a likely voter.

00:09:36.000 He had said he would vote for Laxalt if he voted and that he was likely, but not certain to vote, right?

00:09:42.000 And he had vote history.

00:09:43.000 So you got to include that voter.

00:09:44.000 He didn't go.

00:09:45.000 Yep.

00:09:45.000 Charlie.

00:09:46.000 He didn't vote.

00:09:47.000 And we called him back and we, you know, you're going to vote in 24?

00:09:50.000 Oh, absolutely.

00:09:51.000 And he's a Trump vote.

00:09:53.000 You know, absolutely.

00:09:54.000 And this is why the RNC is worthless, right? 0.98

00:09:57.000 They're completely worthless.

00:09:58.000 They had no early voting operation in Nevada.

00:10:00.000 They had no ballot chasing, but a lot of consultants made a lot of money on the grift.

00:10:04.000 We just call it the grift.

00:10:05.000 And it's an insult.

00:10:07.000 Adam Laxalt should be United States Senator.

00:10:09.000 You get 5,000 to 10,000 low-prop voters to go vote early in Washu, in Elko, Nevada, in Clark County.

00:10:15.000 You're trying to tell me those.

00:10:16.000 You just told me about one of them.

00:10:17.000 We know about a lot of them.

00:10:18.000 Producer Andrew is Mr. Nevada.

00:10:20.000 He was there.

00:10:21.000 And I'll tell you, a lot of these people they're not communicated with.

00:10:23.000 Meanwhile, Cortez Masto and these Democrats were going door to door, ballot chasing, ballot harvesting.

00:10:29.000 And our side said, oh, no, everyone show up on election day.

00:10:32.000 We will lose the country and lose every election with that mentality.

00:10:36.000 I'm calling for an end of the Republican primary.

00:10:38.000 It's over.

00:10:39.000 It's done.

00:10:39.000 Now, of course, you got to go through the motions, but everyone else should drop out.

00:10:42.000 We should put all of our money in a ballot chasing, ballot harvesting.

00:10:45.000 Trump is going to win either by 50 or by 15 or by 20.

00:10:49.000 You might hate that, but you know what?

00:10:51.000 I hope you hate more?

00:10:52.000 Joe Biden getting another four years because that's the likely scenario right now.

00:10:59.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:12:02.000 So, Rich, let's build this out a little bit more.

00:12:04.000 Looking at this completely objectively, Rich, I want you to walk through the downside of a long, expensive Republican primary.

00:12:13.000 Because we have Nikki Haley, Asa Hutchinson, you know, potentially Ron DeSantis, who does look like he's going to run.

00:12:20.000 So, it's safe to assume there's at least $200 million of F you money out there that donors are going to spend because they personally don't like Donald Trump on the right.

00:12:31.000 I know some of these donors, you know some of these donors.

00:12:33.000 I'm not going to say their names, okay?

00:12:35.000 They donate to some good things and to some bad things, but they really hate Trump, right?

00:12:39.000 A lot of them are in Palm Beach.

00:12:40.000 A lot of them are in Aspen.

00:12:41.000 A lot of them are in Big Sky, and a lot of them are in New York, right?

00:12:44.000 $200 million, right, that they're going to do is F you money.

00:12:48.000 And they say, I don't care.

00:12:49.000 It's just out of principle.

00:12:50.000 I'm going to spend the money because I hate Trump.

00:12:53.000 Walk us through analytically and objectively why that is a bad thing if we want to win the White House in 2024.

00:13:02.000 So there are historical considerations, and then there's the new, which is what we have been talking about, which is that things have changed now.

00:13:10.000 It's, you know, people used to say things like, well, having a competitive primary is a good thing and it'll make the candidate that emerges ultimately stronger.

00:13:20.000 That never really has been true, especially when it comes to incumbents.

00:13:24.000 And I actually think that in this situation, you would consider Donald Trump an incumbent almost, because the bottom line, Charlie, this is why the DNC is keeping everybody off the debate stage.

00:13:35.000 This is why they're moving South Carolina before Iowa and New Hampshire.

00:13:39.000 History, whether it's Herbert Walker or Bush, whether it's Jimmy Carter, when there's a known candidate, a known president, and they are run through the primary, they're run through the ringer, and they're battered by their opponents, making attack lines that are going to be used later.

00:13:52.000 They are weakened by it and they lose.

00:13:54.000 Everybody in my business knows that.

00:13:56.000 Primaries are not good unless you have a slate of new candidates.

00:14:01.000 That's the only time when they'll emerge.

00:14:03.000 And that's, by the way, Hillary Clinton, it didn't work out for her in 08, right? 0.88

00:14:07.000 So, and it didn't again in 16, when she was a known quantity, a known candidate, and Bernie beat her up a bit.

00:14:13.000 And then a huge chunk of Bernie's voters actually voted for Donald Trump and it cost her Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin.

00:14:19.000 So that's number one.

00:14:20.000 Number two, this operation that we're talking about is going to cost a fortune.

00:14:26.000 The only and that, and it's, and it needs to start now.

00:14:29.000 It can't be in, there's not enough time.

00:14:32.000 It's half a billion dollars minimum in three states.

00:14:37.000 Yeah, minimum, minimum, Charlie, because wouldn't it be great if we had time, if we started now to really go into other states to give us some cushion, to give us some a little bit more effort?

00:14:47.000 When Democrats did this in 20, they started months before.

00:14:52.000 That was the whole point of why the primary that Bernie was losing, I mean, that Bernie was winning turned out to be such a disaster for them because they really had started to put some of this stuff in place for Joe Biden before.

00:15:04.000 And it took them, they have unions, the right does not.

00:15:07.000 So there's a lot of organizational concerns that the right needs to address now.

00:15:12.000 And they need to, you know, there's just not enough time after a primary is over to pivot to a general.

00:15:19.000 So let's say we have this $200 million super PAC war chest of just any candidate but Trump, right?

00:15:25.000 30 million here, 10 million here, because billionaires are richer than ever.

00:15:28.000 The oligarchy has had a really good run, right, in the last five years.

00:15:32.000 A lot of cheap money flows upwards, right?

00:15:35.000 It goes upwards.

00:15:36.000 Those streams go up.

00:15:37.000 And so these billionaires are going to say, okay, I'm going to spend this money.

00:15:40.000 So, Rich, even though Trump is going to win, what does that do for Trump's name idea in these states?

00:15:45.000 What does that do for, you know, and by the way, that's money that can't then be spent, right?

00:15:52.000 And by the way, it could be more than 200 million.

00:15:54.000 This could end up being a $500 million primary because you're talking about some of these donors that have serious FU money that are just going to say, like, yeah, you know, I hate Trump, $250 million.

00:16:05.000 I'm going to put $250 million into a super PAC because I hate Trump that much.

00:16:08.000 That's Republican on Republican-friendly fire.

00:16:12.000 Rich, we could be in a place where we could be having to like tie up the primary a year from now in delegate counting in March and April.

00:16:19.000 We're like, well, this is a waste of time.

00:16:20.000 Meanwhile, Democrats will be chasing ballots and registering voters and running negative ads on Republicans fearmongering for nine months straight.

00:16:28.000 The only one who wins, the only people who win through a bitter primary on the Republican side is the Griff. 0.55

00:16:35.000 You know, if I lump them all up into one category, it's called what you're calling it, the Griff.

00:16:40.000 The consultants who feel like, and that's another part of this, Charlie, they want this fight, not the voters necessarily.

00:16:46.000 They want it.

00:16:47.000 They want to convince the voters to have it because they're out.

00:16:50.000 They're out right now.

00:16:51.000 They're not making the money that they would make without Donald Trump.

00:16:55.000 So you have the consultants, you have, frankly, politicians who are looking out for themselves before the party and its ability to beat Joe Biden in 2024.

00:17:05.000 And if they don't, it's because they put all of those selfish concerns first.

00:17:10.000 It really is that simple.

00:17:12.000 You know, I mean, that's, I don't know how else to put it. 0.99

00:17:14.000 He should be beaten. 0.61

00:17:15.000 And they had plenty of time to put together this infrastructure.

00:17:18.000 They got to start putting that before they, you know, put their own concerns and access, you know, questions about access, you know, ahead of what it takes to win.

00:17:27.000 Thanks so much, Rich.

00:17:28.000 Appreciate it.

00:17:28.000 All the best.

00:17:32.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

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00:18:34.000 Joining us now is the great Alex Berenson.

00:18:37.000 I'm a little disappointed in a weird background here, I know, but hopefully it's okay.

00:18:42.000 No worries, Alex.

00:18:43.000 I always enjoyed seeing you on Tucker.

00:18:44.000 So I'm sad that that venue is no longer there for you, but you're always welcome here.

00:18:49.000 So you do a wonderful job.

00:18:50.000 You could check out his sub stack, Unreported Truth Substack.

00:18:53.000 So, Alex, you got to wonder why all of a sudden is Fauci back on a media tour?

00:18:57.000 Is there something coming?

00:18:58.000 Usually, this stuff isn't out of nowhere.

00:19:01.000 Am I speculating too much?

00:19:03.000 Is this, it seems communicating.

00:19:05.000 It could be something as simple as a book deal.

00:19:08.000 And he's, you know, that he's got, you know, a couple offers out there and he wants a couple million dollars extra.

00:19:15.000 You know, it made me sad to read the comments that were posted at the bottom of the New York Times interview with him.

00:19:21.000 I mean, the interview itself was his usual, you know, nonsense and lies, but all these people on the left, they just, they don't get it.

00:19:29.000 They think, I mean, they still believe in him.

00:19:34.000 It's amazing to me that, you know, we're three years into this.

00:19:38.000 Basically, governments have given up on the vaccines.

00:19:41.000 Companies have given up on the vaccines.

00:19:45.000 I shouldn't say companies, but governments have certainly given up on the vaccines.

00:19:48.000 People have given up on the vaccines.

00:19:49.000 But if you read the New York Times, these people, there's this hard group of 20 or 30% of the United States that believes that without Fauci, we all would be dead.

00:20:00.000 And without the vaccines, we all would be dead.

00:20:02.000 I mean, he said so many crazy things in that interview, but the craziest thing he said was that he thought the vaccines had saved 5 million lives in the United States.

00:20:10.000 Unbelievable.

00:20:12.000 It's just made up out of thin air.

00:20:13.000 I mean, it's.

00:20:15.000 And so it might be, it might be a book deal, or it could be that there's some sort of negative new.

00:20:20.000 I mean, I don't want to get ahead of myself here, but sometimes when you see these profile pieces, at least this was the case with Andy McCabe, and this was the piece with Peter with Peter Strzok.

00:20:29.000 They're trying to get ahead of something.

00:20:30.000 But maybe I'm out here.

00:20:32.000 It could be just be pure narcissism, which is to be expected from him.

00:20:36.000 So I want to play a couple pieces of tape here because now he's back on a media tour out of nowhere.

00:20:40.000 He's crawled out of his hole with Caitlin Collins.

00:20:43.000 This is an amazing one, Alex, because it involves you, right?

00:20:46.000 And so Cut 49, Fauci says that America has a free spirit and they don't want to be told what to do.

00:20:52.000 And we need to do a better job of convincing.

00:20:54.000 They were never in the business of convincing, Alex.

00:20:57.000 They never wanted to talk to us.

00:20:59.000 They censored you.

00:21:00.000 They censored me.

00:21:01.000 They've not in the business of convincing.

00:21:03.000 They use the hammer to shut us up.

00:21:06.000 Play Cut 49.

00:21:08.000 You know, Caitlin, I don't want to say a mistake, but I think we really need to remember next time we're confronted with this, that when you have a situation where there's doubt in the minds of some people about whether something works or not, we better try to reach out and be a better explainer of why we feel these things are important.

00:21:28.000 Because whenever, particularly in our country with our free spirit, which we all embrace, that people being told what to do very often has the opposite effect.

00:21:38.000 That's what I was referring to in that interview.

00:21:40.000 Yeah, you said I said, I mean, Alex, we all embrace the free spirit.

00:21:45.000 I can't stand this guy.

00:21:46.000 Okay.

00:21:47.000 I mean, from look, the reason people stopped taking the vaccines is because the vaccines fail.

00:21:54.000 Okay.

00:21:55.000 This idea that there's this huge anti-vaccine hesitancy in the United States, it's a lie.

00:22:01.000 Look at the data about childhood vaccines in the United States in the last 10 years.

00:22:01.000 Okay.

00:22:06.000 Okay.

00:22:07.000 I mean, I'm talking pre-COVID.

00:22:08.000 I'm talking pre-the mRNA debacle.

00:22:10.000 Okay.

00:22:11.000 Most people got their kids vaccinated.

00:22:14.000 Yeah, there were places, and frankly, those places were mostly on the left where, you know, people had questions about, let's say, the MMR vaccine.

00:22:22.000 But for the most part, people listened.

00:22:24.000 Okay.

00:22:25.000 The reason people didn't want to take these vaccines.

00:22:29.000 And by the way, if you look at data on people over 65, there's very, actually very little difference between the United States and Europe in people over 65 on the mRNA vaccines, the COVID vaccines, even, I mean.

00:22:43.000 Okay.

00:22:44.000 The difference is that Americans heard from me and heard from you and heard from Tucker.

00:22:50.000 And some younger people realized this is probably not in our interest.

00:22:53.000 This doesn't, you know, this, this COVID is just not that dangerous for us.

00:22:57.000 And frankly, I don't think I'm going to be protected from it even with the vaccine.

00:23:01.000 I don't think I'm going to be protected from passing it to somebody else.

00:23:04.000 These people, Coney Fauci in particular, but all of them, instead of early on saying, you know what, we're going to target this at the people who might actually benefit from it.

00:23:14.000 And we're going to let everybody else make their own decision about it, decided it became a fight.

00:23:19.000 It became, we're going to shove this down your throat.

00:23:22.000 And one of the reasons they got to that place was because they had scared so many of those New York Times readers, those 40-year-olds living in Brooklyn who hadn't let their kids out of their apartments for a year.

00:23:33.000 They had to have some solution.

00:23:34.000 And this vaccine was going to be the magic solution.

00:23:37.000 And the fact that people like me and you were raising questions about it, they couldn't have that.

00:23:42.000 So that's what happened.

00:23:44.000 But I will say one other thing.

00:23:45.000 Okay.

00:23:46.000 There are two arguments here, right?

00:23:47.000 There's a philosophical argument.

00:23:48.000 And even if the vaccine had been completely effective and had no side effects, it would have been wrong to force healthy adults to take that.

00:23:56.000 Okay.

00:23:57.000 It's not right to make people, to take away people's medical autonomy.

00:24:02.000 That's a core American, a core Western value.

00:24:05.000 The fact that the vaccines don't work and may be dangerous are the icing on this, you know, Wano case.

00:24:12.000 And it's so frustrating, Alex, because there's this whole. component that is still ignored and was ignored, which is, is there any treatment that might be able to reduce the hostility of the virus against your body?

00:24:12.000 Yeah.

00:24:28.000 Is there any, I mean, maybe, maybe not, maybe ivermectin, maybe hydroxychloroquine, vitamin D levels.

00:24:32.000 That's an interesting one, right?

00:24:34.000 Maybe if you have a really low vitamin D level.

00:24:36.000 So Alex, that is still ignored in the telling of this history.

00:24:42.000 Well, it's funny.

00:24:43.000 I mean, people get mad at me.

00:24:44.000 Paxlovid actually does work.

00:24:46.000 There's good clinical trial data on that.

00:24:48.000 But, you know, you're right about the bigger question here, which is Tony Fauci in the 1980s wanted an HIV vaccine.

00:24:55.000 And it was only actually when really the gay community, gay activists came to him and said, you're killing us.

00:25:01.000 Find us some drugs that work. 0.82

00:25:04.000 That's what made HIV treatable.

00:25:06.000 Okay.

00:25:07.000 It wasn't Fauci.

00:25:08.000 Fauci was lucky.

00:25:09.000 People pushed him into doing the right thing.

00:25:11.000 And, you know, 35 years later, he made exactly the same mistake.

00:25:16.000 He wanted vaccines for a, for, in this case, for a respiratory virus that you basically can't really treat with vaccines or prevent with vaccines instead of good treatments.

00:25:25.000 You are exactly right, Charlie.

00:25:27.000 And, you know, the problem is the people who were telling him this, we, you know, we weren't sympathetic to the media in the same way that, you know, gay activists were sympathetic to the media or the media was sympathetic to them in 1989.

00:25:40.000 And so we got demonized for really trying to get him to look the right way.

00:25:46.000 So, and we have here, we're pulling the advertisement.

00:25:49.000 I personally get really triggered when I see these Paxlovid ads, not because of the efficacy or not efficacy.

00:25:55.000 I'm not an expert on that, but the fact that now we're allowed to talk about treatments, like, oh, really?

00:25:59.000 After you've mandated the vaccine, I mean, again, I know for certain that, hey, if we would have had a national thing, say, hey, if you lose 10 pounds, you're going to have a better shot of surviving this virus.

00:26:09.000 If you go for a walk outside, if you get some vitamin D exposure, get your vitamin D level above 50, right?

00:26:14.000 Vitamin D is abundant, not just in the sky, but all throughout Walgreens and CBS.

00:26:19.000 I mean, you could just, you could supplement it.

00:26:21.000 It's also really good for your bones.

00:26:22.000 It's super cheap.

00:26:23.000 I mean, and not to mention maybe baby aspirin can help, right?

00:26:26.000 Alex, it's just we never were able to even have a conversation about it.

00:26:30.000 Well, I mean, the first thing Tony Fauci pushed was remdesivir.

00:26:34.000 Now, remdesivir does not work.

00:26:36.000 And it's savage on your body, too.

00:26:37.000 Remdesivir.

00:26:39.000 Yes.

00:26:40.000 That's exactly correct.

00:26:41.000 So, you know, why did the U.S. have worse outcomes than Europe?

00:26:44.000 By the way, we didn't have much worse outcomes, but we did overall have worse outcomes than Europe. 0.88

00:26:48.000 You're exactly correct.

00:26:49.000 It's not because of vaccine differences.

00:26:52.000 It's because we're an unhealthier population, unfortunately.

00:26:54.000 We're more obese.

00:26:56.000 We don't exercise as much.

00:26:57.000 We don't eat in the same, you know, they eat more healthily in Europe.

00:27:02.000 Those are the things we should have been talking about.

00:27:04.000 Instead, Tony Fauci and the public health establishment locked people, including kids, in their houses for a year, made them more depressed, made them fatter.

00:27:13.000 Yeah, of course we had terrible outcomes from this.

00:27:15.000 Yeah, I mean, again, if we would have, but it's politically incorrect, right?

00:27:18.000 There's a couple of things, like, for example, I'll never forget when Fauci stopped short of, you know, not saying, okay, everyone needs to be locked down with a mask, but he didn't go after hookup culture, right?

00:27:27.000 Remember, he was asked that about, because that's a sacred cow.

00:27:30.000 It's a piety you can't make fun of.

00:27:31.000 The same thing with obesity.

00:27:33.000 You cannot tell the American body politic you're 15, 20 pounds overweight, right?

00:27:37.000 Can't do that.

00:27:38.000 Or 15 pounds overweight or 100 pounds overweight.

00:27:40.000 Oh, but you can't protest except if you're a protest.

00:27:43.000 100%.

00:27:44.000 Now, we're hitting on something though, right?

00:27:46.000 Which is, it's a pandemic of hysteria unless there are some central pieties and some holy elements of your society that actually matter more than quote unquote the pandemic, which is social activism, you know, obesity, which I think is an interesting one because it was in front of us the whole time, right?

00:28:05.000 Instead of public health awareness of, you know what, let's all as a country try to get our BMI down 10%.

00:28:10.000 Can we do that?

00:28:11.000 Yeah.

00:28:11.000 You know, could you imagine the backlash?

00:28:15.000 Yes, right.

00:28:16.000 I mean, it's the option.

00:28:17.000 You're shaming the whole country.

00:28:19.000 You're fat-shaming the country.

00:28:21.000 Yeah.

00:28:21.000 You know what?

00:28:22.000 The country does need to be fat-shamed.

00:28:24.000 Yeah.

00:28:25.000 So instead, there's a new, you know, there's a new drug, Ozempic.

00:28:28.000 Now, look, I have not looked at all at the Ozempic clinical trial.

00:28:31.000 Clearly, it works.

00:28:32.000 It helps you in the sense that you do lose weight.

00:28:34.000 But let's not be surprised if in 10 years there's some next side effects out of Ozempic that, you know, that nobody's even predicted, because this is what happens when you rely on a medical cure for everything instead of helping people or encouraging them to be healthy.

00:28:48.000 I can't believe that this is a conservative position.

00:28:51.000 Well, it's not my position, but I agree with you.

00:28:53.000 I have said for a while that the American right embraces obesity culture way too much.

00:28:58.000 Alex, tell us about you going to Rumble.

00:29:00.000 Telling people, telling people to be healthy.

00:29:02.000 How did that become a conservative?

00:29:04.000 How did telling people not to be fat become something that is a politicized point of view?

00:29:08.000 It's because we're, as you well know, we are purchased and owned and operated by corporations that make a lot of money, not just off of getting you fat, keeping you fat, and then selling you medication to subsidize you being fat and overweight.

00:29:21.000 When you get healthy, when you're taking the right supplements, you're happier, you're less depressed, you're less likely to be on benzos, less likely to be on SSRIs.

00:29:27.000 It's not a total thing, but if you get back your autonomy and get back into a healthy lifestyle and you eat kind of local and you're not getting processed foods and not GMOs, all of your hormone markers go in the right direction and you become less profitable for these ridiculous pharmaceutical companies.

00:29:44.000 I just want to say, you know, I think the word you used was autonomy.

00:29:48.000 You have more bodily autonomy and it gives you more political autonomy.

00:29:51.000 That's the connection.

00:29:52.000 You are more independent in every way.

00:29:55.000 And there are people who don't, I guess, don't like that, or at least think that you should be more reliant on the government and less on yourself.

00:30:02.000 That's the connection.

00:30:02.000 I think there's a psychological fear people have, right?

00:30:05.000 Because they want to be taken care of.

00:30:06.000 Deep down, I think there is a yearning in the soul and the programming of who we are as human beings to be taken care of.

00:30:11.000 And that scares them.

00:30:12.000 They're like, are you sure you can't just provide me what I need?

00:30:14.000 Alex, tell us about Rumble.

00:30:16.000 You're going to Rumble.

00:30:17.000 Tell us about your journey.

00:30:18.000 No, I'm not.

00:30:19.000 No, no, I'm not going to Rumble.

00:30:21.000 I have an offer from Rumble.

00:30:23.000 They want me.

00:30:24.000 They really want me to go on locals.

00:30:26.000 You know, look, I have a face that's made for radio.

00:30:28.000 I'll leave, I'll leave TV to pretty people like you. 1.00

00:30:31.000 Oh, yeah.

00:30:32.000 But, but no, so Rumble, and the reason this came out is because I wrote something about on my Substack yesterday.

00:30:39.000 So I have the Substack, the unreported true Substack, and I've got, you know, I've got a pretty decent sized audience.

00:30:43.000 I got a quarter million people who subscribe.

00:30:45.000 Most of those people don't pay. 0.73

00:30:47.000 And as I always tell people, you basically get the same product whether you pay or not.

00:30:51.000 But enough people pay that it's a good, you know, it's a good earning.

00:30:55.000 You know, it's my career at this point.

00:30:57.000 And so Rumble came to me and said, hey, we'd like you basically to move your product over to locals.

00:31:03.000 I mean, it was really locals.

00:31:04.000 You know, locals is a subscription arm of Rumble.

00:31:07.000 And, you know, we'll make it worth your while.

00:31:10.000 And we'll offer you, you know, we'll offer your subscribers the same, basically the same product that they see on Substack.

00:31:16.000 And I sort of felt, look, this is a big deal.

00:31:20.000 You know, Substack has become this sort of voice of free speech.

00:31:23.000 And I know Rumble and locals believe in free speech too.

00:31:26.000 So I actually thought to myself, look, the readers are the ones who pay my bills.

00:31:30.000 The readers are the ones I'm writing for.

00:31:31.000 Let me ask them what they think.

00:31:33.000 Would they rather I stay on Substack in the ecosystem that has Matt Taibbi in it and has Barry Weiss in it?

00:31:40.000 Or do they not care?

00:31:41.000 And maybe I should take this deal from locals and switch over.

00:31:44.000 And somewhat to my surprise, so I posted this last night.

00:31:48.000 More than 10,000 people have voted in this poll, and they pretty overwhelmingly want me to stay on Substack.

00:31:55.000 Now, that doesn't mean I have to listen to them, but it does mean I hear them.

00:31:59.000 And it's been striking to me.

00:32:03.000 The fight for free speech continues.

00:32:04.000 How is your lawsuit against Twitter?

00:32:07.000 Is that still ongoing?

00:32:09.000 Twitter, the Twitter lawsuit is settled.

00:32:10.000 Berenson v. Biden is ongoing.

00:32:14.000 And so the Pfizer executives, they have a lawyer now.

00:32:20.000 And Andy Slavet, I believe, assuming he is the same lawyer who responded to us last year, has a lawyer.

00:32:26.000 These are very, very high-paid civil defense lawyers.

00:32:30.000 And the Department of Justice is going to get involved.

00:32:32.000 So against this, I have my genius lawyer in North Carolina, James Lawrence.

00:32:38.000 And, you know, we have some people kind of helping us quietly advising us.

00:32:45.000 And we're not going to run out of money.

00:32:46.000 I've raised some money for the suits.

00:32:48.000 So we're in a strong position on that.

00:32:50.000 And we'll just go.

00:32:51.000 I mean, I think we have a really good case.

00:32:53.000 I think people, some people who've read the case who I think didn't know exactly how we were going to frame it have been surprised by the strength of it.

00:33:02.000 But, you know, we'll take our chances.

00:33:04.000 Very good.

00:33:05.000 So, Alex, I want to play another piece of tape here of Anthony Fauci talking about masks.

00:33:12.000 And again, this is never is he pressed about the social cost of masks.

00:33:16.000 Look, my whole stance on masks the entire time were they probably don't work, but it's bad for conversation.

00:33:24.000 It makes a nastier society.

00:33:25.000 It's bad for kids' language development.

00:33:27.000 That's always been my take on masks, is that the cost socially is way greater than any benefit.

00:33:33.000 And probably there is no benefit because no one wears them correctly.

00:33:36.000 Play cut 48.

00:33:37.000 If you read very carefully what I said, if you look at the broad public health effect when you have masks that are so-called mandated or supposed to be worn, because so many people don't wear them, even though they're in an arena in which masks are supposed to be worn or they don't wear them properly from a public health standpoint on the cohort of people, the effect can be only marginal.

00:34:02.000 And as we mentioned, it was 10, 13% or so.

00:34:05.000 But for the individual who religiously wears a properly fitted mask, the effect is much, much, much better than that.

00:34:14.000 It's 85, 90% or more.

00:34:18.000 Alex, and then we're supposed to act as if when we went through airports with, you know, these, I mean, these pieces of cloth that they were going to do something?

00:34:29.000 I can't.

00:34:30.000 I'm sorry.

00:34:30.000 I can't stand this.

00:34:32.000 Okay.

00:34:33.000 He's he, first of all, he's not telling the truth.

00:34:38.000 Okay. 1.00

00:34:38.000 He's talking about N95 masks. 1.00

00:34:40.000 Okay.

00:34:41.000 That would cost about $2 billion a day every day to have Americans quote unquote properly wear N95 masks, which most people can't tolerate for long periods of time anyway.

00:34:52.000 And, you know, there are several bucks and you'd have to swap them out. 0.65

00:34:54.000 So from a realistic point of view, it's a joke.

00:34:57.000 Okay.

00:34:58.000 So what he's really saying is we told you to wear masks, but the way we actually told you to wear them, they're useless.

00:35:04.000 And he's admitting that.

00:35:06.000 So it's all downside.

00:35:08.000 It's everything you said about masks not being effective and being sort of damaging socially.

00:35:16.000 And that's the point.

00:35:17.000 Yes, exactly.

00:35:18.000 Yeah.

00:35:19.000 So, so, so, so, and by the way, he's even wrong about the 85 or 90 percent.

00:35:23.000 When you actually look at the benefits of N95s against respiratory virus, it's minor when you can find it at all.

00:35:30.000 So he's just not telling the truth.

00:35:32.000 And, you know, he's done this thing now repeatedly in, you know, in a couple of dimensions, school closures, masks, lockdowns, where he said, well, it wasn't me.

00:35:40.000 I didn't really tell anybody to do anything.

00:35:42.000 I'm not the president.

00:35:43.000 I'm just Tony Fauci.

00:35:44.000 I just gave advice.

00:35:45.000 We have a quick tape. 0.90

00:35:46.000 That's such nonsense.

00:35:47.000 We have a quick tape.

00:35:48.000 Go to 61.

00:35:49.000 Look at his lies.

00:35:50.000 I wonder if you would recommend locking down schools if you had to do it all over again.

00:35:56.000 Well, you know, again, it's first of all, I didn't recommend locking anything down.

00:36:01.000 You're asking me questions.

00:36:02.000 You're talking about.

00:36:04.000 It was a decision to make a recommendation to the president.

00:36:07.000 I recommended to the president that we shut the country down.

00:36:14.000 Alex, I mean, there's one.

00:36:15.000 He was the most after the other after the other.

00:36:18.000 He was the most powerful person in this country in 2020.

00:36:21.000 He loved it.

00:36:22.000 He loved the hero, you know, the hero worshiping.

00:36:25.000 He loved throwing out that ball at the, you know, at National Stadium in 2020.

00:36:29.000 And for him to walk away now and pretend that we didn't do all this stuff, basically because he did it.

00:36:34.000 He knew he knew that if he resigned, Donald Trump would be impeached.

00:36:38.000 He had that power and he used it.

00:36:38.000 Okay.

00:36:41.000 Got to go.

00:36:42.000 Alex, check out his sub stack, Unreported Truths.

00:36:45.000 Thanks so much, Alex.

00:36:46.000 Charlie, thanks for having me.

00:36:48.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:36:49.000 Email us your thoughts.

00:36:50.000 As always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:36:53.000 Thanks so much for listening and God bless.

00:36:57.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - April 26, 2023

Anthony Fauci Rewrites History with Rich Baris and Alex Berenson

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