The Charlie Kirk Show - Are Biden's Autopen Pardons Null and Void?

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, Andrew Colvin in for Charlie Kirk and the Charlie Kirk Show team.

00:00:04.000 Charlie's out today, so I'm anchoring alongside Blake Neff.

00:00:07.000 We have a really robust discussion about Autopen.

00:00:11.000 Is it real?

00:00:12.000 Should we pursue it?

00:00:13.000 Are the pardons of President Biden, Nolan Void, so much more?

00:00:18.000 We don't know the question, but it's a fascinating discussion.

00:00:20.000 Then we bring in Josh Hammer, who is the author of a new book, Israel and Civilization.

00:00:25.000 We dive into some of the stickiest.

00:00:28.000 Hardest to understand issues of Israel.

00:00:30.000 And you're going to get educated in this interview.

00:00:32.000 Josh knows this topic inside and out.

00:00:34.000 Great guest.

00:00:34.000 Great conversation.

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00:00:54.000 Buckle up. 0.96

00:00:55.000 Here we go.

00:00:56.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:58.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

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00:01:08.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:01:09.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

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00:01:54.000 Andrew Colbert in for the one and only Charlie Kirk, who is out.

00:01:59.000 He's a little under the weather, but I'm being told he's on the mend.

00:02:03.000 It's myself, who I'm always honored to be with all of you, and Blake Neff, who's in studio.

00:02:09.000 Blake, on my list are egg prices, hooties, and terrorists, reciprocal.

00:02:15.000 So those are things I want to get to.

00:02:17.000 You pick which one of those, or maybe surprise you with another one.

00:02:21.000 I mean, should we talk about the Biden auto pen thing?

00:02:24.000 We've totally not talked about it.

00:02:25.000 Okay, we can talk about the Biden auto pen thing.

00:02:29.000 I'm sure we've got a clip of this.

00:02:32.000 Blake, why don't you set the stage, and I'll see if we can get the right clip here.

00:02:36.000 Yeah, so this dropped last night, I think after midnight Eastern time.

00:02:40.000 So this has been building up for a few weeks.

00:02:43.000 You know, people in the right-wing media have been talking about this, but I think it was something linked with Heritage did a review of Biden's executive orders or his pardons, and they noticed all of the signatures are completely identical.

00:02:55.000 He clearly signed them with an auto pen.

00:02:59.000 And the follow-up...

00:03:02.000 The thought some people have had is Biden is signing all of these with an auto pen because he's totally out of it.

00:03:10.000 So people are actually just signing things in Biden's name while he's not aware of it.

00:03:16.000 And this led some people to follow up by saying then if Biden wasn't aware this was happening, it's invalid.

00:03:22.000 And I didn't give too much thought to it, but one person who did is President Trump, who last night came out.

00:03:29.000 And said he's declaring Biden's pardons to be null and void on the grounds of Autopen.

00:03:36.000 And as a result, for example, he suggested he could investigate the people on the January 6th committee.

00:03:44.000 My personal guess is this won't legally hold up because there are constitutional mechanisms for a president who is incapable.

00:03:55.000 You can invoke, I think it's the 25th Amendment, and you can say, Well, he's incapable, so the vice president is assuming the power of acting president, or the cabinet is to declare this.

00:04:07.000 And Congress can also act through—they have the power of impeachment, for that matter.

00:04:11.000 So if the cabinet and the vice president are basically colluding to say the president is fine, I don't think there's a lot of room for the next president to come in and say, actually, he wasn't fine, and it's null.

00:04:25.000 Also, Biden's still around.

00:04:27.000 He clearly, even though he's in bad decay, he's still capable of speaking.

00:04:30.000 He did deliver a farewell address.

00:04:32.000 I imagine he could show up in any court and say, yeah, I approved all of these things.

00:04:37.000 They weren't exactly done in secret.

00:04:39.000 But it'll be certainly another showdown for the courts to litigate.

00:04:44.000 And like I said, I'm kind of glad if we're going to have a big showdown with the courts that we're having it over the Trendy Aragua thing rather than this.

00:04:52.000 Yeah, I tend to agree with you.

00:04:54.000 I mean, I know that the MAGA base is excited about this Autopen thing because, you know, who's on that list?

00:05:01.000 It's Adam Schiff.

00:05:02.000 It's Adam Kinzinger.

00:05:04.000 Two of the worst Adams ever, by the way.

00:05:06.000 Can we just all agree on that?

00:05:08.000 It's Dr. Anthony Fauci.

00:05:10.000 It's Hunter Biden.

00:05:12.000 But I think, to your point, I mean, it's not like Joe Biden is, you know, is...

00:05:18.000 Passed on or something, you know, or incoherent at this point.

00:05:21.000 He can simply say, listen, this was my will.

00:05:25.000 You know, I wanted these pardons to be executed.

00:05:29.000 And, you know, I tend to agree with you that looking forward, I get the desire of the base to go after these people, to simply say, there is no pardon available.

00:05:40.000 We're going to take these people out well-deservingly.

00:05:43.000 But I think it's shaky legal grounds.

00:05:46.000 I just want to set everybody's expectations.

00:05:47.000 It's not that I don't understand where people are coming from and sort of the inherent excitement about this.

00:05:54.000 And it is disrespectful.

00:05:55.000 I think Trump had a clip here where he basically said, you know, this is disrespectful to the office, first of all.

00:06:01.000 And I totally agree with that.

00:06:02.000 The fact that the president of the United States didn't take the time to actually sign the legal documents, the binding documents of this country and was using Autopen is...

00:06:12.000 Massively disgraceful and disrespectful to the office.

00:06:17.000 Beyond that, I don't know if it's on steady legal footing.

00:06:22.000 Let's go ahead and play Cut 79.

00:06:25.000 This is Trump talking about it.

00:06:27.000 We have thousands of murderers that Biden and his incompetence, he's always grossly incompetent, but that Biden and his people and his probably auto pet, it looked like we had an auto pet for a president and we would have been better off if we had probably.

00:06:44.000 But it looks to me like, you know, that's a big subject.

00:06:47.000 I'm sure you won't ask about that.

00:06:48.000 But the whole subject of autoped, did he know what he was doing?

00:06:53.000 Did he authorize it?

00:06:54.000 Or is this somebody in an office, maybe a radical left lunatic, just signing whatever that person was?

00:07:01.000 That's not what it's all about.

00:07:06.000 I never use it.

00:07:07.000 I mean, we may use it as an example to send some young person a letter.

00:07:12.000 It's nice.

00:07:13.000 You know, we get thousands and thousands of letters and letters of support for young people, for people that aren't feeling well, etc.

00:07:21.000 But to sign pardons and all of the things that he signed with an auto pet is disgraceful.

00:07:27.000 Yeah.

00:07:28.000 And and, you know, he's basically saying they're null and void and Trump.

00:07:31.000 Then later goes on to say, it's not my decision.

00:07:34.000 That would be up to the court.

00:07:35.000 But I would say that they're null and void because I'm sure Biden didn't have any idea what was taking place.

00:07:40.000 You know, with so many battles on the horizon, I tend to agree with you that it's probably not.

00:07:48.000 The number one fight that I would pick right now, Blake.

00:07:51.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:07:52.000 It's understandable.

00:07:54.000 The Biden administration was awful.

00:07:57.000 We all hated it.

00:07:59.000 There's a lot of grievances against it.

00:08:00.000 And there's a lot of bitterness over...

00:08:02.000 It was very ugly.

00:08:03.000 He went and he just pardoned his son in a flagrantly corrupt manner to make sure he couldn't be held accountable for stuff that we basically all know he did that was incredibly corrupt and criminal. 0.99

00:08:17.000 That stinks.

00:08:17.000 But I think this is kind of grasping at something that wouldn't ultimately be productive.

00:08:24.000 The best revenge is to govern well and...

00:08:28.000 Anytime we spend on basically trying to re-litigate the January 6th committee when we already won the election, we already pardoned the people who were persecuted by that committee, the need to go all the way and like, oh no, it's not over until Liz Cheney is a defendant in court on a criminal charge.

00:08:49.000 No, that has way more potential to go wrong than it has potential to go right.

00:08:55.000 And it's just better to make Liz Cheney angry because we haven't started a war for four years. 1.00

00:09:00.000 Make Liz Cheney angry because we disassembled the intelligence, espionage, domestic surveillance state. 1.00

00:09:10.000 Make him mad for that reason.

00:09:11.000 Let me counter it with just one thought here, though.

00:09:15.000 And to the base's credit, you know, I don't think it is about revenge.

00:09:19.000 I think it's about accountability on some level.

00:09:22.000 And I think this comes from a good place with the base.

00:09:25.000 Maybe this is a rabbit trail that gets us distracted.

00:09:28.000 But, you know, Trump has proved that he can, you know, to use the leftist favorite expression, walk and chew gum at the same time.

00:09:34.000 Let's just go after all of this at the same time.

00:09:36.000 Add it to the mix, you know, because the fact that we were forced to endure this charade.

00:09:43.000 of a presidency where he was obviously in cognitive decline.

00:09:48.000 He had Sundowner syndrome.

00:09:50.000 That's my theory, that he was basically good between a very narrow window after a certain time.

00:09:55.000 We saw this in the debate, which ultimately led to the downfall of his candidacy to run for a second term.

00:10:01.000 You know, it's like we have to restore law and order.

00:10:06.000 We have to restore a sense of dignity in the office of the presidency.

00:10:10.000 We have to You know, the legitimacy of a cognitive, in-charge executive.

00:10:17.000 And so I understand the desire to look back and say, hey, these things weren't right.

00:10:21.000 And if we don't address them and we sweep them under the rug, that's not good either.

00:10:26.000 I agree with you.

00:10:27.000 Is it my favorite fight?

00:10:28.000 No, but I understand why he wants to pick it, and I understand why people are excited about it, because there was so much injustice done and perpetrated against the American people, and so much of it is still very offensive to them and very offensive to me, and so I understand it.

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00:11:28.000 That is 1-800-4-RELIEF. 1-800-4-RELIEF. I'm joined now by Josh Hammer, who is the senior editor-at-large of Newsweek, host of The Josh Hammer Show, and also author of the new book, Israel and Civilization.

00:11:45.000 Josh, welcome to the show.

00:11:47.000 Congratulations on your new book.

00:11:48.000 As somebody who's been...

00:11:50.000 In and around books.

00:11:51.000 I've not written one myself, but been in and around them and helped Charlie with his books, launching them.

00:11:56.000 It is no small task, and so congratulations.

00:11:59.000 It's just an accomplishment to get it done.

00:12:02.000 Second of all, to have one of such import with your book on Israel, which is at the top of a lot of people's minds these days, obviously.

00:12:10.000 So congratulations, my friend, and welcome to the show.

00:12:12.000 Andrew, I really appreciate that.

00:12:14.000 It is a lot of work.

00:12:15.000 It's the kind of thing that I said I wanted to do for years.

00:12:17.000 It took me a lot of time to finally kind of get my butt and start moving towards the finish line there.

00:12:22.000 But once it started, it was kind of just free-flowing.

00:12:25.000 It was a lot of fun to write this book.

00:12:26.000 And, you know, God willing, Andrew, it's going to be successful.

00:12:29.000 It's actually number three on Amazon.com right now for literally all the books.

00:12:33.000 So it's off to a very strong start, actually.

00:12:36.000 So we'll see where it is at this time next week or so.

00:12:39.000 But we're off to a great start.

00:12:41.000 Well, congrats.

00:12:41.000 That's fantastic, Josh.

00:12:43.000 So, Israel and civilization, the fate of the Jewish nation, and the destiny of the West. 0.90

00:12:49.000 I see what you did there, Josh.

00:12:51.000 And I actually happen to agree with that.

00:12:53.000 Now, I am not Jewish.

00:12:55.000 I am a proud American first, American, red-blooded, homegrown.

00:12:59.000 This is my country.

00:13:00.000 I love Israel.

00:13:02.000 And so I wanted to talk to you about this today because I think it brings up a lot of questions about what role does Israel play in our foreign policy?

00:13:10.000 If you are not Jewish, how should you think about Israel?

00:13:14.000 It has become dramatically more controversial.

00:13:18.000 Post-October 7th, which I find somewhat appalling, actually.

00:13:22.000 But I think there's valid questions to bring up.

00:13:25.000 But in that subhead specifically, Josh, you tie the fate of the Jewish nation, Israel, to the destiny of the West.

00:13:31.000 Why do you tie those two together?

00:13:33.000 What is the thesis statement there?

00:13:35.000 All right.

00:13:36.000 So, Andrew, let me take the foreign policy part first, and then we'll kind of go back to the latter part there.

00:13:41.000 So the foreign policy part, and I'm really happy that we're talking here on this show because, you know, Charlie's amazing audience is exactly who I want to understand this message here.

00:13:50.000 We're talking here about foreign policy realism.

00:13:52.000 I, like you, Andrew, I'm a MAGA America First foreign policy realist.

00:13:56.000 I have been criticizing neoconservatives for longer than I think most people have even known what the word neoconservative means here.

00:14:03.000 I am a genuine national interest foreign policy realist who views every single foreign policy issue around the world through a essentially...

00:14:10.000 Fairly singular lens as to whether or not involvement in this fear redounds to the American national interest.

00:14:17.000 I actually have an entire chapter in this book making the MAGA America First foreign policy realist case for close-knit U.S.-Israel relations.

00:14:25.000 Frankly, it's not a particularly difficult case to make because Donald Trump literally did it over the entire course of his first term.

00:14:31.000 His entire first term was just a one grand extensive example as to the realist MAGA America First case.

00:14:44.000 We absolutely do have to reprioritize resources towards the Indo-Pacific.

00:15:03.000 The relevant question, Andrew, is how do we do that while simultaneously safeguarding our interests in the region?

00:15:11.000 You saw Donald Trump just this weekend, actually, in his lengthy post on Truth Social, talk about, for instance, the importance of the Red Sea, which is a core international waterway here. 0.93

00:15:21.000 And he says that America should start bombing the crap basically out of the Houthis there. 1.00

00:15:25.000 I'm happy he's doing that. 0.98

00:15:26.000 But the point is that America is always going to have various interests in this particular part of the world when it comes to oil and natural gas, when it comes to radical Islamic Jihad.

00:15:35.000 We just saw the Bourbon Street Massacre.

00:15:37.000 Tragically, on New Year's Day, just two and a half months ago.

00:15:40.000 So the question then, the question, Andrew, is how can we make sure that America's interests are secured in the Middle East while simultaneously allowing us to...

00:15:50.000 Ourselves prioritize on the Indo-Pacific.

00:15:52.000 And the solution is to embolden our like-minded allies in the region to patrol this region essentially on our behalf.

00:16:00.000 That was the whole purpose of the Abraham Accords. 0.99

00:16:02.000 That's why I mentioned the Trump foreign policy from the first term.

00:16:05.000 This idea that you will embolden Israel, that you will strengthen U.S.-Israel ties, bring Israel into these peace accords with, in that case, the UAE, Bahrain, Morocco, and Sudan, and then essentially pass them the baton and say, okay, You know, you guys do your thing because your enemies are our enemies there. 0.57

00:16:22.000 When you're knocking off this jihad or that jihad, you're basically doing both of us a favor there.

00:16:27.000 And last year, there were actually some very important, concrete examples of this.

00:16:30.000 This is actually in Chapter 6 of my book there.

00:16:32.000 So, for instance...

00:16:33.000 There were a few months, Andrew, last year where Israel kind of went on this Michael Corleone kind of godfather-esque, you know, revenge killing spree. 0.52

00:16:41.000 And among the leading jihadists that they killed there, they basically took off the entirety of the Hezbollah leadership up to and including Hassan Nasrallah, the longstanding leader itself.

00:16:49.000 But before they got Nasrallah, they knocked off two individuals who I like to mention.

00:16:53.000 One guy named Fuad Shakur, the other named Ibrahim Akil.

00:16:57.000 Why do I mention these two guys by name?

00:16:59.000 They were the ones who were responsible for the 1983 Beirut-Lebanon bombings of the U.S. Marine barracks and the U.S. Embassy.

00:17:06.000 In fact, the U.S. State Department had a $5 and $7 million bounty on those two jihadis' head.

00:17:12.000 For over four decades, until Israel literally did the job for us there. 0.87

00:17:16.000 So this notion that America does not in any way benefit here, this notion that we don't have the same enemies, it's ludicrous.

00:17:23.000 We have exactly the same enemies there.

00:17:25.000 And this is frankly a realist way to focus our resources on the Far East while essentially securing our interest in the region.

00:17:33.000 So it's a perfect fit for a foreign policy realism.

00:17:35.000 This notion that Israel is kind of this antiquated Bush administration, neoconservative issue, it's total nonsense.

00:17:41.000 Frankly, actually, a lot of the neocons aren't actually even particularly stalwart supporters of the state of Israel there because they're obsessed with the idea of nation-building.

00:17:50.000 They're obsessed with the idea of trying to democratize, and they oftentimes get too involved in trying to carve out a brand-new Palestinian Arab state and all the same failed experiments that ultimately met their... 0.56

00:18:03.000 Their ruination in Baghdad, Iraq, and so forth there.

00:18:06.000 So it's actually the neoconservatives, frankly, who are oftentimes not great supporters there.

00:18:10.000 I happen to think that U.S.-Israelitians are a perfect fit for a foreign policy, realist, MAGA, America first paradigm approach there. 0.77

00:18:18.000 But the broader book, and pardon my filibuster there, but the broader book, Andrew, is making this fundamental case that Jews and Christians also have to be lockstep, arms to arms, linking arms, shoulder to shoulder here.

00:18:31.000 We say that Western civilization is at a crossroads.

00:18:34.000 We're at an inflection point.

00:18:35.000 And I totally agree with that.

00:18:36.000 But I'm also a lawyer, Andrew, and I like to define terms.

00:18:39.000 What is the West?

00:18:41.000 Well, I mean, you know, we kind of sort of know.

00:18:43.000 You know, it's Jerusalem.

00:18:44.000 It's Athens there.

00:18:45.000 But to me, when we say the West, we're really talking above all about the Bible.

00:18:49.000 We're talking above all about the Judeo-Christian heritage.

00:18:52.000 I argue going back all the way to God's revelation to Moses and the Israelites at Mount Sinai, so much of what we take for granted today.

00:19:00.000 In our constitutional structure, in our day-to-day lives, in our law, in our morals, in our ethics there, it all goes back, actually, to what we Jews call the Torah, what Christians call the Old Testament.

00:19:10.000 So much of it is in there, there.

00:19:12.000 And I really painstakingly kind of explain this in the chapters and all throughout there.

00:19:17.000 But the point, Andrew, is that unless we in the West, Jews and Christians, shoulder-to-shoulder, linking arms in lockstep accord here, unless we double down on our biblical heritage, I do not think that we are going to be adequately equipped.

00:19:32.000 to destroy us, which I identify as wokeism, Islamism, and global neoliberalism. 0.58

00:19:37.000 You have to stand for something.

00:19:39.000 Values neutrality is never an option.

00:19:41.000 You want to defeat the wokes, defeat the radicalismists, you got to stand on something.

00:19:44.000 That's something, Andrew, that's something is the Bible.

00:19:46.000 Josh, I actually think one of the strongest points that you can make in defense of your thesis is the approach that President Trump took to the Middle East and specifically to Israel in his first term.

00:19:58.000 And what we saw from that is that we had an outbreak of peace for once in that region, and it quickly fell apart without strong American leadership.

00:20:07.000 But I think when America waffles on Israel, we embolden Israel's enemies, which are also our enemies. 0.82

00:20:14.000 And that is one of the strongest sort of practical...

00:20:17.000 Foreign policy positions that you can assert in this space without making it about some abstract, you know, moral good this way.

00:20:26.000 But it really comes down to the fact that peace is good for the economy, right?

00:20:31.000 It's good for oil prices.

00:20:32.000 It's good, you know, we talk about the Houthis right now. 1.00

00:20:35.000 There's a great clip from Marco Rubio that I'm actually going to play, where he's just talking about the importance of that trade lane, which is super important to American interest.

00:20:43.000 Let's go ahead and play that Cut 75. Well, first of all, the problem here is that this is a very important shipping lane, and in the last year and a half, the last 18 months, the Houthis have struck or attacked 174 naval vessels of the United States, attacking the U.S. Navy directly 174 times, and 145 times they've attacked commercial shipping.

00:21:02.000 So we basically have a band of pirates, you know, with guided precision anti-ship weaponry.

00:21:08.000 And if the exacting atoll system and one of the most important shipping lanes in the world, that's just not sustainable.

00:21:13.000 We are not going to have these people controlling which ships can go through and which ones cannot.

00:21:18.000 And so your question is, how long will this go on?

00:21:20.000 It will go on until they no longer have the capability to do that.

00:21:25.000 Josh, this is an example of the moral clarity of the Trump administration by contrast of this waffling of Joe Biden.

00:21:32.000 Joe Biden did support Israel, but he was sort of...

00:21:35.000 It was mixed signals.

00:21:36.000 We were funding Hamas at the same time, and we were emboldening Iran and the enemies of the West. 0.93

00:21:43.000 And this is the last point I'll make, and then I'm going to throw back to you, is that if you are an American who is frustrated with our support of Israel, never forget that the same Islamist forces that want to destroy Israel want to also destroy America. 0.85

00:22:00.000 They want to destroy the West.

00:22:01.000 They want to...

00:22:03.000 They want to subdue us.

00:22:05.000 They want to subjugate us.

00:22:06.000 And they will do it over the long term.

00:22:08.000 They'll do it by slowly coming in and then demanding more rights, having more children. 0.98

00:22:13.000 You're seeing this in certain neighborhoods of the United Kingdom, all over Europe.

00:22:18.000 So whether or not you even buy into these larger civilizational arguments, if you just simply understand that radical Islamism is...

00:22:28.000 Out to get the West and to subdue all of us, not just Israel. 0.99

00:22:32.000 I think that's another piece that is important to realize when you talk about foreign policy realism.

00:22:37.000 One minute, Josh, your reaction.

00:22:39.000 Yeah, look, I'll give you just one example that really kind of drives this point home.

00:22:43.000 So I was giving a talk in Washington, D.C. this past summer to a generally younger audience.

00:22:47.000 I kind of noticed this guy who was dressed a little funny standing in the back who was like...

00:22:52.000 Very vigorously nodding along to what I had to say.

00:22:55.000 So he approaches me afterwards.

00:22:57.000 He's from Iran.

00:22:58.000 He grew up in Tehran there.

00:22:59.000 Andrew, he told me that growing up in his K-12 and his education there, their equivalent of saying the Pledge of Allegiance every day, like we in the United States do, their equivalent to Iran is they basically say, I solemnly vow to do all that I can to help destroy the little Satan of Israel and the great Satan of America. 0.96

00:23:17.000 They actually believe this stuff.

00:23:19.000 I remember, Josh.

00:23:21.000 Yeah, go ahead.

00:23:23.000 No, I'm just saying, I mean, like, they actually genuinely believe this stuff.

00:23:27.000 I mean, like, they really are out to get all of us.

00:23:29.000 Hamas, Houthis, Hezbollah, but not hiding in Andrew at all.

00:23:31.000 No, I totally agree.

00:23:35.000 We see it all the time when I visit college campuses.

00:23:37.000 Young adults demonize the concept of free markets and think government is the solution to every problem.

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00:24:36.000 Josh, this is a question that perplexes a lot of Americans and actually kind of frustrates the whole Israel discussion.

00:24:46.000 Jews in Israel are actually pretty pro-Trump, especially the more religious ones.

00:24:50.000 Jews as a country are pretty favorable towards America, but Jews in America tend to vote left still.

00:24:57.000 Are we seeing movement on that front?

00:25:01.000 Are we seeing Jews in America get behind MAGA, get behind conservatives, get behind President Trump more?

00:25:06.000 Are we still stuck in like 70-30 or whatever it was?

00:25:10.000 You know, it's been historically stuck at this overwhelming majority for Democrats.

00:25:15.000 Great question.

00:25:16.000 Lots went back on that, actually.

00:25:17.000 So you're totally right.

00:25:18.000 If you look at foreign countries' approval ratings of the United States, the state of Israel, Israelis as a whole, have an extraordinarily high approval rating of the United States, certainly of President Trump.

00:25:32.000 President Trump, as you can imagine, because he's so pro-Israel, is a wildly, wildly popular figure.

00:25:37.000 In Israel, they literally named a town after him, Andrew, called Trump Heights in the Golan Heights.

00:25:43.000 I know because I've been there because I've literally driven by and took a photo of it just for the memories there.

00:25:48.000 He's an extraordinarily popular figure there.

00:25:51.000 Here in the United States, it's complicated for a few reasons.

00:25:56.000 There is – I guess I'll explain it this way.

00:26:00.000 The problem, Andrew, you're a Christian. 1.00

00:26:05.000 Politics is very often downstream of religion, okay?

00:26:08.000 And when you have a strong biblically-based worldview, you're more likely than not going to end up with a conservative political worldview.

00:26:18.000 That is why evangelical Christians, traditionalists, Catholics, Orthodox Jews—I mean, Orthodox Jews— Vote for Trump at like an 80-20, 85-15 rate.

00:26:27.000 I mean, so-called ultra-Orthodox Jews, a.k.a.

00:26:29.000 Haredi Jews, it's literally like 95 to 5. I mean, it's beyond overwhelming margins.

00:26:34.000 They vote in blocks, too.

00:26:35.000 They tell each other how to vote.

00:26:37.000 I mean, you see this in neighborhoods in New York, and I'm jealous of it.

00:26:43.000 I love the unanimity of it.

00:26:48.000 Yeah, I mean, I'm religious.

00:26:50.000 I go to Orthodox services there.

00:26:52.000 The notion that you would find essentially anyone here where I go to synagogue in South Florida, you would be hard-pressed to find virtually anyone who voted for Kamala Harris.

00:27:00.000 It's totally not a thing, honestly.

00:27:02.000 The problem is that demographically across the United States there, tragically, tragically, most Jews, the statistical majority of them, are not Orthodox, are not religious there, do not observe all the various commandments of Jewish law there.

00:27:17.000 And it's because of the secularization of large swaths of American Jewry, of the American Jewish people, that is why so many of them vote for left. 0.78

00:27:25.000 So one of the audiences...

00:27:27.000 For my book, Andrew.

00:27:28.000 I mean, I have a lot of audiences here.

00:27:29.000 I really want to reach young Christians.

00:27:31.000 I want Christians to fall in love with the Bible, with the Old Testament again, with everything from Genesis through Psalms and Proverbs and all that.

00:27:38.000 All that's in there.

00:27:39.000 But I also have a special message to my fellow Jews as well because I actually grew up quite secular.

00:27:44.000 I have not become religious until the past few years or so there.

00:27:47.000 And part of my message is actually, like, I did it.

00:27:50.000 You can do it too.

00:27:51.000 I mean, you know, the Jews are called, Andrew, to be a light unto the nations in the book of Isaiah there.

00:27:56.000 And the way that we are called to be a light unto the nations is to actually lead by trying to be holy, by trying to be moral, by actually observing God's law, the law of Moses, and so forth there.

00:28:07.000 So we have a very unique role to play in kind of the grand scheme of things there.

00:28:11.000 And I really make, and at times probably aggressive, borderline acerbic arguments to my more secular, inclined Jewish brethren, basically saying, like, you guys really ought to strongly consider doing this for real the same way that I made a... 0.59

00:28:26.000 Conscientious decision at some point that I was going to start doing it for real as well here.

00:28:30.000 So God willing, as the religious demographics here in the United States change, the political results will change too.

00:28:36.000 The good news, Andrew, is that statistically the demographics are on the side of Orthodox Jews because Orthodox Jews are actually marrying fellow Jews. 0.92

00:28:43.000 They're having a lot of children.

00:28:44.000 They're having large families.

00:28:46.000 Reform Jews are typically marrying out. 1.00

00:28:48.000 They're not really having children because they're just secular like other seculars.

00:28:53.000 Josh, we're seeing the same dynamic with Christians. 1.00

00:28:56.000 I mean, people of faith are getting married more often.

00:28:59.000 They're having more children.

00:29:00.000 Me and my wife, we have three kids.

00:29:02.000 Across my friend group, it's all the Christians that are getting married having kids.

00:29:06.000 It's going to be unclear how this plays out in 20, 30 years, but certainly we have a chance to outbreed these people.

00:29:12.000 I mean, I think that's a totally valid...

00:29:15.000 I mean, if the Muslims are putting that strategy in place, like... 1.00

00:29:19.000 People of faith and Christians and Jews, faithful Christians and Jews should be doing the exact same thing.

00:29:23.000 100% agree with that.

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00:30:25.000 I really wanted to ask you a question specifically because you and I were texting back and forth when this, when this news sort of happened originally.

00:30:35.000 And it's gone back and forth.

00:30:37.000 I'm not sure where we stand, but the issue of Gaza.

00:30:40.000 Do you address that in your book?

00:30:42.000 And if you don't, what do you make of it?

00:30:45.000 And then I want to ask you one follow-up question about Israeli judicial activism, because it plays into the news cycle now.

00:30:51.000 But Gaza specifically, what do you make of it?

00:30:54.000 What do you think needs to happen?

00:30:55.000 What's the humane thing?

00:30:57.000 What's the politically expedient thing to do?

00:31:00.000 Your take, Josh.

00:31:02.000 All right, so I finished drafting the book, Andrew, this past October.

00:31:05.000 So before the 2024 election, I mean, well before Donald Trump shocked the world with his comments about how the U.S. will take over Gaza.

00:31:11.000 So none of that is addressed in the book.

00:31:13.000 I do talk in the book certainly about the need to finish the job against Hamas, a U.S.-recognized foreign terrorist organization, an organization that slaughtered and raped and beheaded and took hostage many American citizens as well, by the way.

00:31:26.000 You know, it's funny, Andrew.

00:31:27.000 There are some people who kind of pump their chest and say, America first.

00:31:31.000 But, like, Americans were literally slaughtered.

00:31:34.000 Americans were literally taken hostage.

00:31:36.000 I mean, October 7th, even on its own America terms, was the single largest American hostage crisis since Tehran in 1979 under President Jimmy Carter there.

00:31:46.000 So Hamas has to go.

00:31:48.000 And the question right now is, frankly, whether or not Prime Minister Netanyahu gets the message and acts on it because President Trump admirably has been crystal clear.

00:31:55.000 He has been above and beyond.

00:31:57.000 Do what you have to do.

00:31:58.000 There will be hell to pay and this and this there.

00:32:01.000 So the question, frankly, is really what Israel do.

00:32:03.000 The ball is, frankly, in Israel's court when it comes to eradicating Hamas. 0.75

00:32:06.000 In terms of what the actual future and the long-term settlement of Gaza ought to be, look, Andrew, in my heart of hearts, I would prefer that Israel take it over. 0.91

00:32:17.000 I'm not enamored with the idea of the United States having a permanent presence there, frankly.

00:32:21.000 It's not my instinct because...

00:32:23.000 I'm not an imperialist.

00:32:26.000 I'm a nationalist.

00:32:27.000 I fundamentally get a little skittish when it comes to the idea of America as kind of having an ever-increasing global footprint around the world.

00:32:33.000 I'm open to the idea, okay?

00:32:35.000 I'm not totally opposed to it.

00:32:37.000 I would like to hear a little more details as to exactly what President Trump has in mind.

00:32:40.000 He obviously is an outside-the-box thinker, and I'm very open and willing to be persuaded here.

00:32:46.000 In my heart of hearts, I do think it's best...

00:32:48.000 In theory, if Israel takes it over. 0.86

00:32:50.000 But unfortunately, Andrew, something does have to happen to the Arabs there in order for Israel to take it over there. 0.69

00:32:56.000 And that's kind of where this other part of Donald Trump's plan comes in there.

00:33:00.000 You've got to try to put massive sticks and carrots diplomacy on Jordan, on Egypt, and trying to get them to bring in lots of these Arabs there. 0.99

00:33:08.000 I think pragmatically, realistically, the most likely thing that's going to happen in Gaza, if we interpret Donald Trump's stance as an opening bid, the most likely stance, Andrew, is...

00:33:18.000 Probably you'll have the Saudis, the Emiratis, the Bahrainis, these various other wealthy Sunni Arab states that go in with some sort of consortium.

00:33:25.000 These are very wealthy countries.

00:33:26.000 They can build up the infrastructure fairly closely there.

00:33:29.000 The U.S. will be involved in some capacity to make sure these Arabs are not putting in a bunch of, you know, crypto-jihadis to basically make Hamas rise again there.

00:33:37.000 But that's my guess as to what it actually looks like.

00:33:40.000 Fair enough.

00:33:41.000 I like that idea.

00:33:42.000 I like that idea, Josh.

00:33:43.000 Now, I'm actually going to...

00:33:44.000 I've got a limited amount of time here, and I'm going to change my second and final question.

00:33:50.000 Charlie goes on campuses, and now about a third of the questions is about Israel.

00:33:54.000 I mean, the younger generation is obsessed with Israel.

00:33:58.000 And honestly, it's a lot of negativity towards Israel.

00:34:01.000 And one of the common things that they say about Israel is that they are – essentially it's an open-air apartheid state that they have been abusing their Arab neighbors.

00:34:10.000 I just want to give you two and a half minutes here to react to those accusations against Israel.

00:34:15.000 And I know you're an American.

00:34:16.000 You're not an Israel apologist.

00:34:17.000 But what would you say to that?

00:34:20.000 Sure.

00:34:20.000 So the notion that Israel is an illegal occupier, Andrew, is just legally incorrect.

00:34:25.000 And I guess I will just take 30 to 60 seconds to explain the international law here.

00:34:30.000 So the international law is basically as follows.

00:34:32.000 So the modern Middle East is carved up after World War I. That's when you get the British mandate for Palestine. 0.61

00:34:39.000 The British mandate for Palestine consisted of two parts.

00:34:41.000 You had the mandate for the Emirates of Transjordan.

00:34:45.000 That became Jordan.

00:34:46.000 Then you had mandatory Palestine. 1.00

00:34:48.000 That was the land of Israel. 0.62

00:34:49.000 And the mandate for Palestine actually included Judea and Samaria, a.k.a.

00:34:53.000 the West Bank.

00:34:55.000 This was actually the original two-state solution.

00:34:58.000 So quite literally, anyone who's literate with history could tell you that Jordan, about 100 years ago, was actually the so-called Palestinian state.

00:35:05.000 So what happened then was...

00:35:07.000 In 1948, Israeli War of Independence happens, and the Jews had previously accepted a smaller two-state solution.

00:35:15.000 The Arabs had rejected it.

00:35:16.000 They decided to invade Israel the next day. 0.65

00:35:17.000 You have a series of temporary armistice lines there.

00:35:20.000 These are not final settlement lines.

00:35:22.000 These are armistice lines.

00:35:23.000 And yes, it's true that Jay and Samaria was not part of that, but it was simply an armistice.

00:35:28.000 So there was no final settlement.

00:35:30.000 And under an international law principle known as Utiposididis Eurus, it is a commonly accepted international law maxim.

00:35:37.000 This is how it works with the breakup of Yugoslavia.

00:35:39.000 This is how it works in many African countries.

00:35:41.000 When a new sovereign state is formed, it actually assumes the inherited borders of the previous existing sovereign entity in that particular sliver of the world.

00:35:49.000 So when Israel was founded in May of 1948, it actually assumed the full borders of mandatory Palestine, aka included Judea and Samaria and Gaza.

00:35:57.000 So there's no illegal occupation going on here under international law.

00:36:01.000 Your political mileage may vary as to what you think is the best solution.

00:36:04.000 But the best solution, again, From an American national interest, emotionally detached perspective, is to embolden our ally.

00:36:11.000 Because our allies won who's taken out our enemies.

00:36:13.000 They're the ones who are hunting down the jihadis.

00:36:15.000 They're trying to kill us both. 0.89

00:36:16.000 What is in the American national interest of trying to carve out yet another Muslim terrorist state, let alone one in the heart of the Holy Land that could, God forbid, have custody over Jewish and Christian holy sites? 0.99

00:36:28.000 It's absolutely nuts. 0.90

00:36:29.000 It makes no sense whatsoever.

00:36:30.000 There is no, no, no American national interest.

00:36:33.000 That's zero, zero, zero.

00:36:35.000 So they're not an occupier under international law.

00:36:37.000 There is no compelling political case whatsoever to carve out yet another state.

00:36:42.000 Donald Trump, to his great credit, totally understands this, Andrew.

00:36:45.000 You know, this rise of— Sorry to interject here.

00:36:50.000 I just want to state one final thing here as well.

00:36:53.000 And Josh, great book.

00:36:54.000 A great job on the book.

00:36:56.000 Congratulations.

00:36:57.000 You're one of the most articulate defenders of this stuff, and you know the issues inside and out.

00:37:00.000 And I would just say, you know, there was essentially a two-state solution in place before October 7th and see how that worked out.

00:37:07.000 And remember that Israel...

00:37:08.000 Gave land for peace, and that peace has proven futile, unfortunately.

00:37:15.000 And so something does have to take place.

00:37:18.000 Hamas has proven that they are incapable of governing that area, at least in a peaceful, responsible way. 0.82

00:37:26.000 I don't know what's going to happen.

00:37:27.000 There's a lot of people there and it's a complicated solution.

00:37:31.000 I like your consortium idea.

00:37:33.000 Perhaps that's the right way forward.

00:37:34.000 But Josh, once again, congratulations.

00:37:36.000 And we'll have to have you on again soon to talk about it because it ain't going anywhere.

00:37:42.000 This issue is top of the mind in the news.

00:37:45.000 So congratulations, Josh.

00:37:46.000 We'll talk soon.

00:37:47.000 Looking forward to it, Andrew.

00:37:48.000 Thanks for all your support.

00:37:49.000 I appreciate it.

00:37:50.000 Absolutely.

00:37:50.000 Take care, Josh.

00:37:51.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:37:52.000 Talk to you soon.

The Charlie Kirk Show - March 18, 2025

Are Biden's Autopen Pardons Null and Void?

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