00:00:28.000If we have been helpful to you, if you have been blessed by the work we're doing on the Charlie Kirk Show, then go to charliekirk.com/slash support.
00:00:39.000That is charliekirk.com/slash support.
00:00:42.000And please consider supporting us as we end near the end of the year.
00:01:14.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:39.000And we are going to start with the terrific and the tremendous testimony kind of reflection with Rich Barris, who testified yesterday in Kerry Lake's trial, and he did a wonderful job.
00:01:52.000Rich from Big Data Polls, welcome back to the program.
00:02:16.000And when do you think we're going to get a verdict or a ruling?
00:02:19.000Well, taking it backwards, you know, I'm not a lawyer, but I imagine just listening to the judge, who I got to tell you, I really do believe is trying to do the best job he can.
00:02:28.000I mean, I had days to sit there and watch while I was waiting to testify.
00:02:31.000And, you know, from think about it from his perspective, no, no judge wants this case to land on their lap.
00:02:37.000But I thought that he was being as fair as possible and as thorough as possible.
00:02:45.000So, you know, that being said, I think that, you know, what, you know, how do I think it went?
00:02:51.000You know, when you have a story to tell and there's not really much, you know, that people can do about it, I do think it went well.
00:02:59.000I actually think the cross-examination went more effectively than direct.
00:03:05.000I mean, sometimes that happens, you know.
00:03:07.000But as far as what I was doing there, just to make it very clear, I never worked for Kerry Lake.
00:03:14.000Unlike some of the other people who work, you know, the ones they got to testify, you know, an alternate version of their story to try to counter what I was saying.
00:03:23.000They indeed did work for Katie Hobbs in the past.
00:04:01.000So, two thoughts on that really quick, Rachel.
00:04:02.000So, tell us what was the short summary of what you were testifying?
00:04:07.000Like, what was the argument you were making?
00:04:10.000And then, secondly, explain why is it not smart for someone in your profession typically to do this?
00:04:16.000Yeah, well, first, what we saw: pre-election day polling is, I would argue, very different from exit polling.
00:04:24.000And there's always drop-offs during interviews with pre-election polling.
00:04:28.000You might have somebody on the interview, Charlie, because you just contacted them, and maybe they'll answer a few questions, especially when it gets to stuff like demographics.
00:04:46.000Once you contact people and screen people and you say, look, we're conducting an exit poll in state A. Would you be willing to participate in it?
00:04:55.000And then they already begin to answer the first part of the questionnaire, which is a screen, a voter screen.
00:05:02.000So we're trying to check and confirm because we already know from their voter file their vote history.
00:05:06.000We're trying to see if they are, in fact, a likely voter.
00:05:09.000Do they fit the profile of the voter we've modeled so far?
00:05:14.000And when you do that, the completion rate is much higher.
00:05:17.000And you tell them when they get to a certain part, well, you tell them first.
00:05:21.000And then when they get before the vote preference, you remind them during the interview: if you have not casted your ballot, we'll complete the interview when you cast your ballot.
00:05:29.000Do not complete the interview until you've cast your ballot.
00:05:33.000So election day voters are always the ones in recent, the way exit polling is conducted now.
00:05:39.000If you're an early voter and you voted by mail and you put it in the mailbox already or you dropped it off in a Dropbox, you can complete your interview and move on.
00:05:46.000So the exit poll is heavily Democratic in these modern, you know, the modern era, heavily Democratic in most states.
00:05:52.000And then the Election Day voters, when they cast their ballot on election day, will go back to either their link or their peer-to-peer text, however they conducted it, or live.
00:06:06.000What we saw this time was such a dramatic disparity between the completion rates for people who voted early and people who claimed that they were going to vote on election day.
00:06:17.000And normally, maybe you could say, all right, it was just a drop-off in election day vote, but we know that was not the case, Charlie.
00:06:24.000And we also know from looking at their vote history, they already passed the screen.
00:06:28.000I mean, as I brought out my testimony, I mean, one of these exit, one of these participants or would-be participants had voted for decades.
00:06:39.000There was no good reason why she did not finish the exit poll.
00:06:44.000And we heard all throughout the day, right after polls opened.
00:06:48.000We heard, I'm sorry, I know I said I would complete the exit poll, but I tried to vote before work and the line is too long.
00:07:03.000I can only, again, he never completed his exit poll.
00:07:07.000So there's no reason when somebody has been talking to you from November 1st to November 8th and they have a vote history.
00:07:15.000You're going to have some that just say they're going to do it, but don't.
00:07:19.000But, you know, a 20-point disparity between vote methods, it doesn't happen, Charlie.
00:07:24.000And so what then is the conclusion of that or the argument that basically you were making that you hope the judge internalizes and seeks a remedy?
00:07:34.000That these people did not get to vote because of the issues that occurred in Maricopa on election day.
00:07:40.000And I tried to draw, basically provide a, you know, and a comparison.
00:07:47.000So an astronomer cannot see a planet in a distant solar system, but they see the light that the star is showing in that solar system.
00:07:55.000The only way they measure that there is a planet there or they're able to observe that there is a planet there is when the planet passes in front of the star, it dims the light of that star.
00:08:05.000Well, that's what they did to Election Day voters.
00:08:07.000They dimmed the light and I can observe them by their absence.
00:08:11.000This is what they, you know, they're talking, well, you didn't actually, you know, you can't actually say because that question wasn't worded that way.
00:08:18.000No, I can, because this has never happened before.
00:08:21.000And their absence is how I can measure them.
00:08:25.000So, you know, for those who were, you know, questioning whether or not Election Day voters could have increased by 10% of just election day or 15%, the exit poll suggested it could have been 20%, which would have put it at 302,000 Election Day voters, which would have increased their share to a historic level.
00:08:46.000But I would argue if this continues, if this distrust in mail-in voting continues, Election Day voting in Arizona and in other states that have long been Florida is another one.
00:08:56.000They were almost, you know, all early vote for a long time.
00:08:59.000Very small chunk of election day vote.
00:09:04.000And you can't simply, you have to sometimes believe the American people.
00:09:07.000And you can't just, you know, say the, you know, because something has is rare or, you know, hasn't happened in 30 years, it doesn't mean it can't happen again.
00:09:17.000If that was true, there would have been no basis for the amount of turnout we saw in the 2018 midterms, for instance.
00:09:23.000So history is made in politics all the time.
00:09:26.000And I tend to err on the side of believing the American voter when I talk to so many of them.
00:09:32.000I want to encourage you and to thank you for testifying yesterday.
00:09:54.000Well, if they burned two hours, that means they were very worried about what you were saying.
00:09:59.000That means that you were right over the target and you were making a very clear argument that tens of thousands of voters were disenfranchised.
00:10:10.000Look, you know, it's almost 2023 and nothing's really changed, has it?
00:10:14.000The year's ending and things are now more expensive than they ever have been.
00:10:43.000It's not too late to add precious metals to your IRA.
00:10:46.000Thousands of people have retired comfortably with the help of Noble Gold Investments and their gold and silver IRAs.
00:10:52.000If you're a hesitant investor, but one of the handful of Americans who can go for gold and silver in your IRA, now is the time to act.
00:10:59.000If you get in before the end of this month, you'll bag an incredible free three-ounce Silver American Virtue Coin with every qualified IRA of $20,000 or above.
00:11:08.000You can't go wrong with Noble Gold Investments.
00:11:15.000Call 877-646-5347 or go to noblegoldinvestments.com.
00:11:23.000The way that these election challenges have to be done is very flawed.
00:11:27.000You have to use whatever evidence you're able to gather in a very short period of time, put it into an official legal complaint, argue it, get witnesses to substantiate it, all before the deadline of swearing in the next governor.
00:11:56.000You know, I think that, you know, sometimes the cross-examination is an attempt to discredit the witness or an attempt to try to find a flaw in their argument.
00:12:08.000And when you're, you know, when you're not, when a lawyer is not very, even if they have an expert, they're trying to educate them.
00:12:16.000When they're not very, they have a poor understanding of what the expert does, it can backfire quite a bit.
00:12:25.000They thought very clearly that because Maricopa County is a vote anywhere county, that the analysis by congressional district was going to be flawed and they were going to be able to catch me in some kind of a mess.
00:12:38.000Did I use the voter file just to see where they live?
00:12:41.000How do you know whether or not they voted in that particular area?
00:12:45.000What they didn't know, Charlie, is how advanced survey software is these days.
00:12:50.000And since 98% of these respondents, more, I think, in this exit poll, chose to complete their survey using a cell phone in any way, shape, or form, whether no matter what mode they chose to do it with, we can actually geolocate them.
00:13:04.000So if they were attempting to vote on election day, if they just cast their ballot and they told us they put it in their mailbox, we know whether they're home and they're actually voting in the same congressional district as where they live.
00:13:17.000And there was an audible curse word, which I'm not sure if the cameras picked up, but you could hear one of the defense when she led up to asking me that.
00:13:28.000You can hear one of the other attorneys who got up later to cross me actually drop the S-word and like low, like, you know, because they just didn't know that.
00:13:36.000And perhaps if they had chosen to find a pollster instead of a PhD who doesn't practice what I practice, then perhaps he wouldn't have looked so foolish.
00:13:46.000But because they got some guy who was in an ivory tower who doesn't have a single published poll to his name, then he was not able to guard against that embarrassing moment, which was, but it's more than that.
00:13:58.000Again, how many exit polls has that gentleman conducted?
00:14:26.000I'll tell you, I think that you're probably going to get one sooner rather than later because, and I mean, you know, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm just, you know, observing what the judge was saying throughout the entire time.
00:14:38.000And he seemed very keen on, you know, getting this done ASAP, although as thoroughly as possible.
00:14:45.000You know, and then basically there was this one night before where they tried to, the defense for Hobbes and the county tried to file all of these motions in an attempt to wear out the clock.
00:15:38.000But yeah, I don't know what, you know, it's hard to say what a ruling would look like, Charlie.
00:15:44.000I think that the tech expert that the plaintiff Carrie Lake's team brought forward did a lot to hit the bar that the judge set for them, which is that there had to be either some kind of gross malfeasance or intention.
00:15:59.000And the way that those images come in, Mr. Jarrett testified that they couldn't end up a 19-inch image on a 20-inch ballot.
00:16:07.000And we now know that that is what happened.
00:16:10.000So I just don't know how you overlook that.
00:16:12.000Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's such a challenge for Carrie Lake.
00:16:15.000I pray that the judge will see that she met the challenge because you have to prove intent.
00:16:20.000All Maricopa County had to do this whole time.
00:16:22.000Oh, well, we're just dumb and like we didn't do it.
00:17:17.000Relief Factor is a 100% drug-free solution developed by doctors based on scientific research to help your body attack the underlying inflammation causing you pain.
00:17:27.000Three weeks from now, you could be doing the things you enjoy doing.
00:17:30.000Your first step to becoming pain-free could be just to order the three-week quick start for only $19.95.
00:17:36.000After trying Relief Factor, over half a million people have gone on to order more.
00:17:41.000Go to relieffactor.com or call 8004Relief to find out more about this offer.
00:17:46.000That's relieffactor.com or call 8004Relief.
00:17:48.000Live your best life and feel the difference with Relief Factor.
00:18:03.000The new Senate bill that got passed has $3 million in funding for the LGBTQ Museum in New York, $1.2 million for the LGBTQ Pride Center in California, $1 million for Zora's house, a community space for gender-expansive people, $45 billion to Ukraine, minimum, $1 trillion added to the deficit,
00:18:28.000$3 million for the Michelle Obama trail, $1.5 million for the COVID-19 American History Project, $7.5 million to research the domestic radicalization phenomenon, $1 million for gun violence research.
00:18:46.000Now we have a diversity and inclusion office and $400 million for a new headquarters for the FBI.
00:18:52.000Pedro, why do we need Democrats when we have Republicans like this?
00:18:57.000You know, Charlie, I always like to put on a good show, so I do a lot of prep before these interviews.
00:19:04.000And I have to admit that the feeling that I had as I was just kind of reading and putting my thoughts together for this stuff is almost apathy, precisely for that reason.
00:19:15.000Not apathy, but exhaustion, I guess, is probably the most important thing.
00:19:18.000I think that's a very honest, that's very honest.
00:19:24.000Yeah, because sometimes, obviously, we actually care about these issues, but the outrage sometimes almost starts to feel like you're participating in theater that you did not agree to participate in.
00:19:38.000Because basically we get really angry, we get worked up, we say this time is the last time.
00:19:44.000We even sometimes find or invent some new heroes.
00:19:48.000Like people seem to love Kevin McCarthy right now because they've forgotten about the recent history with regard to Kevin McCarthy and spending bills.
00:19:55.000But the point is, is that, and a lot of this, by the way, is not the viewers' fault.
00:20:00.000It's the fact that it just kind of seems like a feature of our politics to get us really angry and then ultimately disappoint us and then to kind of restart the cycle.
00:20:23.000And then I come back, you know, fired up, getting our audience.
00:20:26.000And then these, I have words for them that I'm not going to use on air, but these people that, I mean, it feels so theatrical on our part, right?
00:20:37.000Because it's, we put on a performance.
00:20:49.000And I think that's what's really frustrating about it is that even if you genuinely are angry, like you and I are, it still somehow feels performative because you know that despite your anger and despite all the anger you can whip up at other people, things are probably still going to go the way, you know, the House looks sent to pass this.
00:21:08.000Senate Republicans that went along with it quite literally don't care.
00:21:12.000They're thumbing their nose, you know, at their base.
00:21:14.000Like what's again, what's crazy about this is that Mitch McConnell thumbing his nose at Republican voters, that happened before the midterms and people still voted for him.
00:21:25.000So I think there's basically a lot of soul searching that needs to happen, not among, or not that we have to demand from the politicians in the GOP, but from the base itself.
00:21:36.000Why are people like McConnell still around?
00:21:39.000I think that's a really big question, right?
00:21:42.000And it seems like we don't really have an answer for it.
00:21:44.000But recall, before the midterms, you know, McConnell was saying, what?
00:21:48.000Everyone agrees that Ukraine is the biggest issue in the world.
00:22:01.000I mean, I hate to use that term, but I think the turtle looks at that and he snickers to his staff like, how do I get the Charlie Kirk show fired up?
00:22:12.000No, I'm sure that I'm absolutely sure that McCarthy knows the base is really angry at him, but at the same time, he feels confident enough to do these kinds of things.
00:22:22.000So, you know, before midterms, Ukraine is the most important thing in the world.
00:22:26.000After midterms, Ukraine is the most important thing in the world.
00:22:29.000And it's just, it's such a flagrant contradiction to, you know, be a Republican, to be in the shoes of someone like Mitch McConnell and talk about, you know, fiscal responsibility and being a hawk on the deficit and all this stuff.
00:22:42.000And at the same time, you know, signing a bill that is going to put U.S. support for Ukraine in the ballpark of $100 billion.
00:23:09.000Yeah, I don't know if I agree with that totally, Pedro, because, yes, we have been apathetic and cynical for years, but there's a lot of good people in our audience.
00:23:32.000I agree with you that from our politics, we haven't done the necessary work over the last couple of decades to remove these criminals from office.
00:23:39.000But everyday people are now getting crushed by inflation, have less Christmas skips they can give.
00:23:45.000Their kids are now staring at screens and consuming this transgender poison, and they feel as if they're losing their country.
00:23:53.000They have the leader of the Republican Party telling them the biggest thing that Republicans care about is a proxy war murky family dispute 5,000 miles away with a CIA plant against a dictator.
00:24:22.000There's a lot of horse trading going on here, a lot of vote covering, right?
00:24:26.000Do you notice how many of these people that voted for it were either, I'm sorry to interrupt you, Pedro, are either retiring or they just got re-elected?
00:25:08.000Unfortunately, they kind of think it's funny.
00:25:11.000Yes, that's what's even sicker about this is that I think they're at a level where not only do they not care, it's kind of I'm going to dangle it in front of you and then chuckle and laugh behind the cameras and do things that will intentionally provoke you.
00:25:29.000So ultimately, because I agree with you, I think that Republican voters are generally good people, obviously, like most Americans are, and they do deserve better.
00:25:38.000So I think as exhausting as this is, I'm sorry to say, but you have to get angry because that's the only thing that's going to get you to do something differently.
00:25:49.000And maybe, maybe, like I said, a broader part of this is the stories that we allow certain elements in conservative media to convince us to kind of trust the plan.
00:26:01.000We have to support certain people and certain leadership that has a pattern of established behavior because this time it's going to be different instead of actually kind of rocking the system and putting our foot down and saying like, because over these different leadership fights, what you often hear is that, look, if you replace somebody like McConnell or McCarthy, the outcome could be basically you could be making things worse.
00:26:27.000And you'll hear that from the GOP itself, kind of saying, don't rock the vote too hard because if you do, things could get a whole lot worse.
00:26:34.000And I'm at the point now where I'm like, okay, that things are already pretty bad now.
00:26:40.000And if basically you're threatening, you're threatening the base now to not change things, to not rock the boat too much, or else, then I'm honestly, I'm prepared to go with the or else at this point.
00:26:52.000And the interesting thing is, is that a lot of normal people who are, I wouldn't say they're radical, they're just normal Republican people tend to agree with that at this point because it's like, it's really just a matter of speeds.
00:27:06.000I think it was Michael Malice that said like conservatism is just liberalism driving the speed limit or something like that.
00:27:12.000Well, it seems to be true for the Republican agenda, just being the Democrat agenda going the speed limit.
00:27:20.000So I don't even know if they're going the speed limit anymore.
00:27:23.000I mean, I think that they're pushing, they're going into full throttle.
00:27:27.000It's like, okay, let's just fold this thing.
00:27:30.000I mean, we got money for LGBTQ Pride Centers, the Iditarod Trail.
00:28:20.000So there obviously are, you know, good spots and glimmers of hope.
00:28:24.000But at the same time, basically, I don't think people hate their, I don't think Republican voters hate the GOP as much as they should, all things considered.
00:28:35.000I'm going to tell you about one of my struggles with this, because at some point, if you would have rewound the tape two months ago, I was like, let's get the Senate.
00:28:46.000And now two months later, I'm like, I understand why people don't show up.
00:30:30.000I mean, you hear this more and more, right?
00:30:32.000This kind of desire to check out because it's just the uniparty.
00:30:36.000I think that's totally fair and I understand it.
00:30:40.000But at the same time, I think it's going to, I mean, again, this is exactly what I meant, that it's exhausting and sometimes it sounds performative.
00:30:54.000I think that there are some things to look forward to in the GOP with new guys like fans joining the party.
00:31:00.000But at the same time, I think it's going to take time and it's going to require a level of viligence and activity from the base that we just haven't really seen yet.
00:31:17.000And that's going to fall, that's going to fall, I think, on the, I guess, the activists, people like us.
00:31:27.000The organizers, the activists, like we have a responsibility to, I guess, do our best to inform people and guide them in the right direction.
00:31:37.000I mean, you can tell that I'm struggling to answer this because I'm not sure the $1.7 trillion question.
00:32:17.000But at the same time, if you have leaders that are intentionally defying their voters in an arrogant and smug way, I also think, Pedro, you know, we overthink this stuff sometimes.
00:32:30.000I don't think we have to say, okay, victory is inevitable or losing is inevitable.
00:32:36.000Build a beautiful family, honor God, do what is virtuous and courageous in the pursuit of justice, hold these people accountable, and the results in some way will either take care of themselves or not.
00:32:48.000I think we get too big into this like grand strategy session and then we fall short and we act as if, well, I'm just going to do nothing.
00:32:56.000Look, and if you follow my work, you know that I don't, I'm not like a cheerleader frank politician, but I've said some nice things about Chip Roy and I'll continue saying them.
00:33:06.000But Roy sent this letter to his colleagues in the Senate and basically he threatened that if the GOP goes along with this, and they did in the Senate, that Roy was basically threatening to obstruct every agenda item that the Senate Republicans have.
00:33:22.000In other words, Roy was threatening to instigate a kind of rebellion among the Hallas Republicans against the Senate Republicans.
00:33:31.000And so I think at the heart of that is a kind of willingness.
00:33:34.000Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but what I'm trying to extract from it is a willingness to lose.
00:33:40.000And I think that's really important because it gets at this point of the fact that like parties come and go, but principles and convictions don't.
00:33:49.000And when the party is not actually representing the principles and convictions of its base, then the base has to be willing to let the party lose.
00:33:57.000And like this sounds like, you know, crazy and like, wow, it's self-destructive.
00:34:02.000But again, you know, Chip Roy sent this letter to his colleagues threatening exactly that.
00:34:07.000We're going to make your lives hell if you do this, if you completely betray your own base.
00:34:13.000And again, that's a scary proposition, but I think that's the attitude that we need to have is this kind of willingness to lose.
00:34:20.000Because ultimately, these losses are temporary.
00:34:23.000But the convictions and the principles that we all, you know, like that our elected official supposedly stands for, those things are not ephemeral in passing.