The Charlie Kirk Show - Awaiting the Kari Lake Verdict with Rich Baris and Pedro Gonzalez

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, today the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:01.000 Rich Barris gives us an update from the Kerry Lake trial.

00:00:05.000 He testified and then Pedro Gonzalez joins the program to talk about the treachery of Senate Republicans.

00:00:12.000 It's a fitting festivist episode.

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00:00:50.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:51.000 Here we go.

00:00:52.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

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00:01:37.000 Welcome, everybody.

00:01:38.000 Merry Christmas.

00:01:39.000 And we are going to start with the terrific and the tremendous testimony kind of reflection with Rich Barris, who testified yesterday in Kerry Lake's trial, and he did a wonderful job.

00:01:52.000 Rich from Big Data Polls, welcome back to the program.

00:01:54.000 Rich, Merry Christmas.

00:01:56.000 Merry Christmas, Charlie, to you and everybody at the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:59.000 It's good to be here.

00:02:00.000 So, Rich, you did very well yesterday.

00:02:03.000 And, you know, I was able to watch a good portion of it.

00:02:06.000 We were hosting our program.

00:02:07.000 Let's take a step back, tell our audience what you were testifying in regards to yesterday.

00:02:14.000 How do you believe it went?

00:02:16.000 And when do you think we're going to get a verdict or a ruling?

00:02:19.000 Well, taking it backwards, you know, I'm not a lawyer, but I imagine just listening to the judge, who I got to tell you, I really do believe is trying to do the best job he can.

00:02:28.000 I mean, I had days to sit there and watch while I was waiting to testify.

00:02:31.000 And, you know, from think about it from his perspective, no, no judge wants this case to land on their lap.

00:02:37.000 But I thought that he was being as fair as possible and as thorough as possible.

00:02:42.000 He seems like a fair-minded guy.

00:02:45.000 So, you know, that being said, I think that, you know, what, you know, how do I think it went?

00:02:51.000 You know, when you have a story to tell and there's not really much, you know, that people can do about it, I do think it went well.

00:02:59.000 I actually think the cross-examination went more effectively than direct.

00:03:05.000 I mean, sometimes that happens, you know.

00:03:07.000 But as far as what I was doing there, just to make it very clear, I never worked for Kerry Lake.

00:03:14.000 Unlike some of the other people who work, you know, the ones they got to testify, you know, an alternate version of their story to try to counter what I was saying.

00:03:23.000 They indeed did work for Katie Hobbs in the past.

00:03:26.000 I have never worked for Kerry Lake.

00:03:28.000 I simply found myself in a position where I conducted an exit poll in Arizona and I've done exit polls in Florida and Arizona.

00:03:35.000 I mean, I can't even, when they ask me how many polls I've done, Charlie, I don't even know.

00:03:40.000 But for over six years now, what I saw in Arizona, I have never seen ever.

00:03:47.000 And I don't think, and believe me, I wanted to stay home with my family.

00:03:51.000 I did.

00:03:52.000 I didn't want any, you know, I didn't want to put myself in the middle of this.

00:03:55.000 It's not a smart move for someone in my profession.

00:03:58.000 But I would never have been able to.

00:04:01.000 So, two thoughts on that really quick, Rachel.

00:04:02.000 So, tell us what was the short summary of what you were testifying?

00:04:07.000 Like, what was the argument you were making?

00:04:10.000 And then, secondly, explain why is it not smart for someone in your profession typically to do this?

00:04:16.000 Yeah, well, first, what we saw: pre-election day polling is, I would argue, very different from exit polling.

00:04:24.000 And there's always drop-offs during interviews with pre-election polling.

00:04:28.000 You might have somebody on the interview, Charlie, because you just contacted them, and maybe they'll answer a few questions, especially when it gets to stuff like demographics.

00:04:35.000 They're like, ah, you know what?

00:04:36.000 I think I'm actually, and they'll drop.

00:04:38.000 They'll call it an abandonment rate, right?

00:04:40.000 So we have what we call completion rates.

00:04:44.000 Exit polling is different, though.

00:04:46.000 Once you contact people and screen people and you say, look, we're conducting an exit poll in state A. Would you be willing to participate in it?

00:04:55.000 Yes.

00:04:55.000 And then they already begin to answer the first part of the questionnaire, which is a screen, a voter screen.

00:05:02.000 So we're trying to check and confirm because we already know from their voter file their vote history.

00:05:06.000 We're trying to see if they are, in fact, a likely voter.

00:05:09.000 Do they fit the profile of the voter we've modeled so far?

00:05:14.000 And when you do that, the completion rate is much higher.

00:05:17.000 And you tell them when they get to a certain part, well, you tell them first.

00:05:21.000 And then when they get before the vote preference, you remind them during the interview: if you have not casted your ballot, we'll complete the interview when you cast your ballot.

00:05:29.000 Do not complete the interview until you've cast your ballot.

00:05:33.000 So election day voters are always the ones in recent, the way exit polling is conducted now.

00:05:39.000 If you're an early voter and you voted by mail and you put it in the mailbox already or you dropped it off in a Dropbox, you can complete your interview and move on.

00:05:46.000 So the exit poll is heavily Democratic in these modern, you know, the modern era, heavily Democratic in most states.

00:05:52.000 And then the Election Day voters, when they cast their ballot on election day, will go back to either their link or their peer-to-peer text, however they conducted it, or live.

00:06:02.000 It can be live.

00:06:03.000 And they'll complete their interview.

00:06:06.000 What we saw this time was such a dramatic disparity between the completion rates for people who voted early and people who claimed that they were going to vote on election day.

00:06:17.000 And normally, maybe you could say, all right, it was just a drop-off in election day vote, but we know that was not the case, Charlie.

00:06:24.000 And we also know from looking at their vote history, they already passed the screen.

00:06:28.000 I mean, as I brought out my testimony, I mean, one of these exit, one of these participants or would-be participants had voted for decades.

00:06:39.000 There was no good reason why she did not finish the exit poll.

00:06:44.000 And we heard all throughout the day, right after polls opened.

00:06:48.000 We heard, I'm sorry, I know I said I would complete the exit poll, but I tried to vote before work and the line is too long.

00:06:56.000 I can't wait here.

00:06:57.000 I'll try to come back after work.

00:06:59.000 Well, that particular gentleman never showed back up.

00:07:02.000 He never came back.

00:07:03.000 I can only, again, he never completed his exit poll.

00:07:07.000 So there's no reason when somebody has been talking to you from November 1st to November 8th and they have a vote history.

00:07:15.000 You're going to have some that just say they're going to do it, but don't.

00:07:19.000 But, you know, a 20-point disparity between vote methods, it doesn't happen, Charlie.

00:07:24.000 And so what then is the conclusion of that or the argument that basically you were making that you hope the judge internalizes and seeks a remedy?

00:07:34.000 That these people did not get to vote because of the issues that occurred in Maricopa on election day.

00:07:40.000 And I tried to draw, basically provide a, you know, and a comparison.

00:07:47.000 So an astronomer cannot see a planet in a distant solar system, but they see the light that the star is showing in that solar system.

00:07:55.000 The only way they measure that there is a planet there or they're able to observe that there is a planet there is when the planet passes in front of the star, it dims the light of that star.

00:08:05.000 Well, that's what they did to Election Day voters.

00:08:07.000 They dimmed the light and I can observe them by their absence.

00:08:11.000 This is what they, you know, they're talking, well, you didn't actually, you know, you can't actually say because that question wasn't worded that way.

00:08:18.000 No, I can, because this has never happened before.

00:08:21.000 And their absence is how I can measure them.

00:08:25.000 So, you know, for those who were, you know, questioning whether or not Election Day voters could have increased by 10% of just election day or 15%, the exit poll suggested it could have been 20%, which would have put it at 302,000 Election Day voters, which would have increased their share to a historic level.

00:08:45.000 Yes, that's true for Arizona.

00:08:46.000 But I would argue if this continues, if this distrust in mail-in voting continues, Election Day voting in Arizona and in other states that have long been Florida is another one.

00:08:56.000 They were almost, you know, all early vote for a long time.

00:08:59.000 Very small chunk of election day vote.

00:09:01.000 And that has risen.

00:09:02.000 So, you know, things change.

00:09:04.000 And you can't simply, you have to sometimes believe the American people.

00:09:07.000 And you can't just, you know, say the, you know, because something has is rare or, you know, hasn't happened in 30 years, it doesn't mean it can't happen again.

00:09:17.000 If that was true, there would have been no basis for the amount of turnout we saw in the 2018 midterms, for instance.

00:09:23.000 So history is made in politics all the time.

00:09:26.000 And I tend to err on the side of believing the American voter when I talk to so many of them.

00:09:32.000 I want to encourage you and to thank you for testifying yesterday.

00:09:36.000 You did a great job.

00:09:37.000 And it was in a very compressed timeline.

00:09:41.000 And, you know, despite the cross-examination and kind of their snob, their snobbery, they burned two hours on me, brother.

00:09:50.000 They burned two out of their five hours on me.

00:09:53.000 You don't have a PhD.

00:09:54.000 Well, if they burned two hours, that means they were very worried about what you were saying.

00:09:59.000 That means that you were right over the target and you were making a very clear argument that tens of thousands of voters were disenfranchised.

00:10:10.000 Look, you know, it's almost 2023 and nothing's really changed, has it?

00:10:14.000 The year's ending and things are now more expensive than they ever have been.

00:10:19.000 It's ridiculous.

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00:11:23.000 The way that these election challenges have to be done is very flawed.

00:11:27.000 You have to use whatever evidence you're able to gather in a very short period of time, put it into an official legal complaint, argue it, get witnesses to substantiate it, all before the deadline of swearing in the next governor.

00:11:47.000 Rich Barris, welcome back.

00:11:49.000 So, Rich, you were cross-examined for quite some time.

00:11:52.000 You said that the cross-examination you think went even better.

00:11:55.000 What do you mean by that?

00:11:56.000 You know, I think that, you know, sometimes the cross-examination is an attempt to discredit the witness or an attempt to try to find a flaw in their argument.

00:12:08.000 And when you're, you know, when you're not, when a lawyer is not very, even if they have an expert, they're trying to educate them.

00:12:16.000 When they're not very, they have a poor understanding of what the expert does, it can backfire quite a bit.

00:12:24.000 And I'd give you an example.

00:12:25.000 They thought very clearly that because Maricopa County is a vote anywhere county, that the analysis by congressional district was going to be flawed and they were going to be able to catch me in some kind of a mess.

00:12:38.000 Did I use the voter file just to see where they live?

00:12:41.000 How do you know whether or not they voted in that particular area?

00:12:45.000 What they didn't know, Charlie, is how advanced survey software is these days.

00:12:50.000 And since 98% of these respondents, more, I think, in this exit poll, chose to complete their survey using a cell phone in any way, shape, or form, whether no matter what mode they chose to do it with, we can actually geolocate them.

00:13:04.000 So if they were attempting to vote on election day, if they just cast their ballot and they told us they put it in their mailbox, we know whether they're home and they're actually voting in the same congressional district as where they live.

00:13:16.000 So they didn't know that.

00:13:17.000 And there was an audible curse word, which I'm not sure if the cameras picked up, but you could hear one of the defense when she led up to asking me that.

00:13:24.000 And I knew where she was going. 0.99

00:13:26.000 And I dropped that hammer on her.

00:13:28.000 You can hear one of the other attorneys who got up later to cross me actually drop the S-word and like low, like, you know, because they just didn't know that. 0.98

00:13:36.000 And perhaps if they had chosen to find a pollster instead of a PhD who doesn't practice what I practice, then perhaps he wouldn't have looked so foolish.

00:13:46.000 But because they got some guy who was in an ivory tower who doesn't have a single published poll to his name, then he was not able to guard against that embarrassing moment, which was, but it's more than that.

00:13:58.000 Again, how many exit polls has that gentleman conducted?

00:14:02.000 Zero.

00:14:03.000 So how would you think?

00:14:04.000 It's all theoretical.

00:14:05.000 It's all abstractions.

00:14:06.000 It's not the real world, Charlie.

00:14:08.000 It's not doing the work.

00:14:09.000 So, Rich, let me ask you, though, just what is the timeline now?

00:14:13.000 The trial has concluded.

00:14:17.000 Does the judge now have to oversee the Abe Hamadake cases?

00:14:21.000 Could we get a ruling at any time?

00:14:23.000 What do you think a ruling might look like?

00:14:25.000 Walk us through this.

00:14:26.000 I'll tell you, I think that you're probably going to get one sooner rather than later because, and I mean, you know, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm just, you know, observing what the judge was saying throughout the entire time.

00:14:38.000 And he seemed very keen on, you know, getting this done ASAP, although as thoroughly as possible.

00:14:45.000 You know, and then basically there was this one night before where they tried to, the defense for Hobbes and the county tried to file all of these motions in an attempt to wear out the clock.

00:14:57.000 And he just didn't let it happen.

00:14:59.000 And he ruled on them.

00:15:00.000 He got the, you know, whatever they call it, house cleaning, house cleaning.

00:15:03.000 He got that order of business out very quickly, but yet, as far as I can see, very fairly.

00:15:09.000 So I'm not sure what he's going to rule.

00:15:10.000 But again, you could see some of the expressions.

00:15:13.000 Another moment during Cross was when they didn't realize that I am actually intimately familiar with RCB and they just asked for my stuff.

00:15:21.000 So they didn't know that because they're not pollsters and their witnesses aren't.

00:15:25.000 If he was a pollster, then he'd know the guys from RCP, right?

00:15:29.000 So he'd know and he would not have walked into that trap.

00:15:32.000 Nobody cares about Nate Silver, you know?

00:15:35.000 So it's such a joke.

00:15:37.000 I mean, it did not go well.

00:15:38.000 But yeah, I don't know what, you know, it's hard to say what a ruling would look like, Charlie.

00:15:44.000 I think that the tech expert that the plaintiff Carrie Lake's team brought forward did a lot to hit the bar that the judge set for them, which is that there had to be either some kind of gross malfeasance or intention.

00:15:59.000 And the way that those images come in, Mr. Jarrett testified that they couldn't end up a 19-inch image on a 20-inch ballot.

00:16:07.000 And we now know that that is what happened.

00:16:10.000 So I just don't know how you overlook that.

00:16:12.000 Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's such a challenge for Carrie Lake.

00:16:15.000 I pray that the judge will see that she met the challenge because you have to prove intent.

00:16:20.000 All Maricopa County had to do this whole time. 0.97

00:16:22.000 Oh, well, we're just dumb and like we didn't do it. 0.98

00:16:25.000 That's it. 0.97

00:16:26.000 I mean, and their defense is basically just malfeasance or negligence.

00:16:32.000 Like, okay, yeah, we don't really know what we're doing.

00:16:34.000 Not malfeasance.

00:16:35.000 Rich, thank you for testifying yesterday.

00:16:37.000 Thank you for joining us on this program.

00:16:39.000 You were terrific, and the arguments you made were bulletproof and very solid.

00:16:44.000 And I pray the judge will see it that way.

00:16:45.000 Rich, Merry Christmas.

00:16:46.000 Thank you so much.

00:16:48.000 All the best, Charlie, and Merry Christmas, everyone.

00:16:50.000 Thanks for having me.

00:16:54.000 Charlie Kirk here.

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00:17:54.000 Pedro Gonzalez joins us.

00:17:56.000 Pedro, welcome back to the program.

00:17:58.000 Merry Christmas.

00:17:59.000 Let me read some of this off for you, Pedro.

00:18:01.000 I'm sure this will get you excited.

00:18:03.000 The new Senate bill that got passed has $3 million in funding for the LGBTQ Museum in New York, $1.2 million for the LGBTQ Pride Center in California, $1 million for Zora's house, a community space for gender-expansive people, $45 billion to Ukraine, minimum, $1 trillion added to the deficit,

00:18:28.000 $3 million for the Michelle Obama trail, $1.5 million for the COVID-19 American History Project, $7.5 million to research the domestic radicalization phenomenon, $1 million for gun violence research.

00:18:46.000 Now we have a diversity and inclusion office and $400 million for a new headquarters for the FBI.

00:18:52.000 Pedro, why do we need Democrats when we have Republicans like this?

00:18:56.000 That's right.

00:18:57.000 You know, Charlie, I always like to put on a good show, so I do a lot of prep before these interviews.

00:19:04.000 And I have to admit that the feeling that I had as I was just kind of reading and putting my thoughts together for this stuff is almost apathy, precisely for that reason.

00:19:15.000 Not apathy, but exhaustion, I guess, is probably the most important thing.

00:19:18.000 I think that's a very honest, that's very honest.

00:19:21.000 Continue.

00:19:21.000 I find it hard to disagree with that.

00:19:24.000 Yeah, because sometimes, obviously, we actually care about these issues, but the outrage sometimes almost starts to feel like you're participating in theater that you did not agree to participate in.

00:19:38.000 Because basically we get really angry, we get worked up, we say this time is the last time.

00:19:44.000 We even sometimes find or invent some new heroes.

00:19:48.000 Like people seem to love Kevin McCarthy right now because they've forgotten about the recent history with regard to Kevin McCarthy and spending bills.

00:19:55.000 But the point is, is that, and a lot of this, by the way, is not the viewers' fault.

00:20:00.000 It's the fact that it just kind of seems like a feature of our politics to get us really angry and then ultimately disappoint us and then to kind of restart the cycle.

00:20:10.000 And basically, it's just exhausting.

00:20:12.000 I think that's so smart and very honest.

00:20:14.000 I mean, I'm exhausted from the midterms, right?

00:20:18.000 And was let down by so many things.

00:20:20.000 I'm exhausted from all the stuff we're doing at Turning Point.

00:20:22.000 We just hosted America Fest.

00:20:23.000 And then I come back, you know, fired up, getting our audience.

00:20:26.000 And then these, I have words for them that I'm not going to use on air, but these people that, I mean, it feels so theatrical on our part, right?

00:20:37.000 Because it's, we put on a performance.

00:20:40.000 Wow, we're outraged.

00:20:41.000 And I am.

00:20:41.000 Like, it's not, I'm not play acting.

00:20:44.000 But man, it wears you down, doesn't it?

00:20:47.000 Yeah.

00:20:48.000 Yeah, it does.

00:20:49.000 And I think that's what's really frustrating about it is that even if you genuinely are angry, like you and I are, it still somehow feels performative because you know that despite your anger and despite all the anger you can whip up at other people, things are probably still going to go the way, you know, the House looks sent to pass this.

00:21:08.000 Senate Republicans that went along with it quite literally don't care.

00:21:12.000 They're thumbing their nose, you know, at their base.

00:21:14.000 Like what's again, what's crazy about this is that Mitch McConnell thumbing his nose at Republican voters, that happened before the midterms and people still voted for him.

00:21:25.000 So I think there's basically a lot of soul searching that needs to happen, not among, or not that we have to demand from the politicians in the GOP, but from the base itself.

00:21:36.000 Why are people like McConnell still around?

00:21:39.000 I think that's a really big question, right?

00:21:42.000 And it seems like we don't really have an answer for it.

00:21:44.000 But recall, before the midterms, you know, McConnell was saying, what?

00:21:48.000 Everyone agrees that Ukraine is the biggest issue in the world. 1.00

00:21:53.000 I can't even comprehend.

00:21:54.000 Continue.

00:21:55.000 I just, it's so, it's almost, it's almost like they're trolling us.

00:22:00.000 Yes.

00:22:01.000 I mean, I hate to use that term, but I think the turtle looks at that and he snickers to his staff like, how do I get the Charlie Kirk show fired up?

00:22:09.000 I'm going to troll them.

00:22:12.000 No, I'm sure that I'm absolutely sure that McCarthy knows the base is really angry at him, but at the same time, he feels confident enough to do these kinds of things.

00:22:12.000 Yes.

00:22:22.000 So, you know, before midterms, Ukraine is the most important thing in the world.

00:22:26.000 After midterms, Ukraine is the most important thing in the world. 0.88

00:22:29.000 And it's just, it's such a flagrant contradiction to, you know, be a Republican, to be in the shoes of someone like Mitch McConnell and talk about, you know, fiscal responsibility and being a hawk on the deficit and all this stuff.

00:22:42.000 And at the same time, you know, signing a bill that is going to put U.S. support for Ukraine in the ballpark of $100 billion.

00:22:53.000 It's just insane.

00:22:54.000 And ultimately, really, it's just exhausting.

00:22:57.000 But again, this is exhausting it is.

00:23:00.000 We still have to ask these questions because it seems like we're stuck with the party that we deserve.

00:23:07.000 And that ultimately comes back on us.

00:23:09.000 Yeah, I don't know if I agree with that totally, Pedro, because, yes, we have been apathetic and cynical for years, but there's a lot of good people in our audience.

00:23:18.000 And I think you know them too.

00:23:19.000 They pay their taxes.

00:23:21.000 They tell the truth.

00:23:22.000 They go to church.

00:23:22.000 They raise their kids.

00:23:24.000 They act in some sort of an ethical manner.

00:23:26.000 And I think they do deserve better than this.

00:23:29.000 I really do.

00:23:29.000 They do.

00:23:30.000 And that's what angers me.

00:23:32.000 I agree with you that from our politics, we haven't done the necessary work over the last couple of decades to remove these criminals from office.

00:23:39.000 But everyday people are now getting crushed by inflation, have less Christmas skips they can give.

00:23:45.000 Their kids are now staring at screens and consuming this transgender poison, and they feel as if they're losing their country. 1.00

00:23:52.000 And what do they have?

00:23:53.000 They have the leader of the Republican Party telling them the biggest thing that Republicans care about is a proxy war murky family dispute 5,000 miles away with a CIA plant against a dictator.

00:24:05.000 Somehow, that's our biggest concern.

00:24:07.000 Yeah.

00:24:08.000 I mean, you look at the list of Republicans who supported the bill, right?

00:24:08.000 Yeah.

00:24:13.000 Openly supported it because I think it's important.

00:24:15.000 You know, we focus on like the 18 senators as if they're the only problem, but they're not.

00:24:20.000 It's much smart.

00:24:21.000 There's a lot of vote.

00:24:22.000 There's a lot of horse trading going on here, a lot of vote covering, right?

00:24:26.000 Do you notice how many of these people that voted for it were either, I'm sorry to interrupt you, Pedro, are either retiring or they just got re-elected?

00:24:34.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:24:35.000 So therefore, there's distance from the wrath of the citizen.

00:24:40.000 Which makes it more disgusting.

00:24:42.000 Of course it does.

00:24:43.000 I mean, it's just so disgusting because they just know that their time is up and they literally don't care.

00:24:50.000 And like Thune, for example, you know, like fresh off supporting, I think the Eagle Act, this immigration giveaway, right?

00:24:58.000 Which thankfully didn't go anywhere.

00:25:00.000 But Thune was one of the guys who publicly supported the spending bill in the Senate.

00:25:05.000 They just don't care.

00:25:06.000 And in fact, I think you're right.

00:25:08.000 Unfortunately, they kind of think it's funny.

00:25:11.000 Yes, that's what's even sicker about this is that I think they're at a level where not only do they not care, it's kind of I'm going to dangle it in front of you and then chuckle and laugh behind the cameras and do things that will intentionally provoke you.

00:25:27.000 Yeah.

00:25:28.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:25:29.000 So ultimately, because I agree with you, I think that Republican voters are generally good people, obviously, like most Americans are, and they do deserve better.

00:25:38.000 So I think as exhausting as this is, I'm sorry to say, but you have to get angry because that's the only thing that's going to get you to do something differently.

00:25:49.000 And maybe, maybe, like I said, a broader part of this is the stories that we allow certain elements in conservative media to convince us to kind of trust the plan.

00:26:01.000 We have to support certain people and certain leadership that has a pattern of established behavior because this time it's going to be different instead of actually kind of rocking the system and putting our foot down and saying like, because over these different leadership fights, what you often hear is that, look, if you replace somebody like McConnell or McCarthy, the outcome could be basically you could be making things worse.

00:26:27.000 And you'll hear that from the GOP itself, kind of saying, don't rock the vote too hard because if you do, things could get a whole lot worse.

00:26:34.000 And I'm at the point now where I'm like, okay, that things are already pretty bad now.

00:26:40.000 And if basically you're threatening, you're threatening the base now to not change things, to not rock the boat too much, or else, then I'm honestly, I'm prepared to go with the or else at this point.

00:26:52.000 And the interesting thing is, is that a lot of normal people who are, I wouldn't say they're radical, they're just normal Republican people tend to agree with that at this point because it's like, it's really just a matter of speeds.

00:27:06.000 I think it was Michael Malice that said like conservatism is just liberalism driving the speed limit or something like that.

00:27:12.000 Well, it seems to be true for the Republican agenda, just being the Democrat agenda going the speed limit.

00:27:20.000 So I don't even know if they're going the speed limit anymore.

00:27:23.000 I mean, I think that they're pushing, they're going into full throttle.

00:27:27.000 It's like, okay, let's just fold this thing.

00:27:30.000 I mean, we got money for LGBTQ Pride Centers, the Iditarod Trail.

00:27:34.000 Zelensky gets his $40 billion. 0.97

00:27:37.000 And just to troll us even more, Pedro, just to say, I hate you so much.

00:27:42.000 Lebanon, Tunisia, Oman, and Pakistan gets border funding.

00:27:49.000 And it's explicitly carved out that we are not allowed to use this money for border funding. 0.66

00:27:55.000 Just to say, trollolololo, I hate you.

00:27:59.000 Yeah, that's right. 0.92

00:28:00.000 No, I think this is exactly how we need to talk about this.

00:28:04.000 Like, the point really needs to be emphasized is that both parties are fundamentally the same.

00:28:11.000 You do have good guys in them.

00:28:12.000 Like, I'm thankful for people like, you know, Chip Roy, who I think is genuine.

00:28:17.000 JD Vance is coming in.

00:28:18.000 I think he's going to be great.

00:28:20.000 Yeah.

00:28:20.000 So there obviously are, you know, good spots and glimmers of hope.

00:28:24.000 But at the same time, basically, I don't think people hate their, I don't think Republican voters hate the GOP as much as they should, all things considered.

00:28:34.000 I'm starting to agree with you.

00:28:35.000 I'm going to tell you about one of my struggles with this, because at some point, if you would have rewound the tape two months ago, I was like, let's get the Senate.

00:28:46.000 And now two months later, I'm like, I understand why people don't show up.

00:28:48.000 And it's just sad.

00:28:49.000 I wish we had a party that was an actual opposition party.

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00:30:02.000 Pedro, let me ask you, how do we process this without just becoming super nihilistic and dark in regards to everything, politics?

00:30:14.000 Or is there, we just have to become super cynical, I suppose.

00:30:19.000 Well, it's hard not to become cynical.

00:30:23.000 I think that's just the reality.

00:30:24.000 And anybody who's telling you otherwise is probably lying or trying to sell you something.

00:30:28.000 And it's totally understandable.

00:30:30.000 I mean, you hear this more and more, right?

00:30:32.000 This kind of desire to check out because it's just the uniparty.

00:30:36.000 I think that's totally fair and I understand it.

00:30:40.000 But at the same time, I think it's going to, I mean, again, this is exactly what I meant, that it's exhausting and sometimes it sounds performative.

00:30:50.000 But I think this is just the truth.

00:30:52.000 It's going to take time.

00:30:54.000 I think that there are some things to look forward to in the GOP with new guys like fans joining the party.

00:31:00.000 But at the same time, I think it's going to take time and it's going to require a level of viligence and activity from the base that we just haven't really seen yet.

00:31:17.000 And that's going to fall, that's going to fall, I think, on the, I guess, the activists, people like us.

00:31:26.000 I don't know how else to put it.

00:31:27.000 The organizers, the activists, like we have a responsibility to, I guess, do our best to inform people and guide them in the right direction.

00:31:37.000 I mean, you can tell that I'm struggling to answer this because I'm not sure the $1.7 trillion question.

00:31:44.000 How do you fix this party, right? 0.64

00:31:47.000 That frankly, I mean, a lot of people think deserves to die.

00:31:51.000 How do you fix it?

00:31:52.000 And by the way, you read American history, you know, parties disappearing.

00:31:56.000 It happens, right?

00:31:58.000 I mean, just the Whigs, right? 0.94

00:31:59.000 How many Whigs do you have in Congress right now? 1.00

00:32:02.000 And so sometimes you have to let something collapse to rebuild it.

00:32:06.000 I don't want to have that happen.

00:32:08.000 I agree with Tucker Carlson, which is you need a robust and accountable Republican Party.

00:32:14.000 That's a fact.

00:32:15.000 That is a material reality.

00:32:16.000 You might not like it.

00:32:17.000 But at the same time, if you have leaders that are intentionally defying their voters in an arrogant and smug way, I also think, Pedro, you know, we overthink this stuff sometimes.

00:32:30.000 I don't think we have to say, okay, victory is inevitable or losing is inevitable.

00:32:34.000 We just have to do the work, right?

00:32:36.000 Build a beautiful family, honor God, do what is virtuous and courageous in the pursuit of justice, hold these people accountable, and the results in some way will either take care of themselves or not.

00:32:48.000 I think we get too big into this like grand strategy session and then we fall short and we act as if, well, I'm just going to do nothing.

00:32:55.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:32:56.000 Look, and if you follow my work, you know that I don't, I'm not like a cheerleader frank politician, but I've said some nice things about Chip Roy and I'll continue saying them.

00:33:06.000 But Roy sent this letter to his colleagues in the Senate and basically he threatened that if the GOP goes along with this, and they did in the Senate, that Roy was basically threatening to obstruct every agenda item that the Senate Republicans have.

00:33:22.000 In other words, Roy was threatening to instigate a kind of rebellion among the Hallas Republicans against the Senate Republicans.

00:33:31.000 And so I think at the heart of that is a kind of willingness.

00:33:34.000 Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but what I'm trying to extract from it is a willingness to lose.

00:33:40.000 And I think that's really important because it gets at this point of the fact that like parties come and go, but principles and convictions don't.

00:33:49.000 And when the party is not actually representing the principles and convictions of its base, then the base has to be willing to let the party lose.

00:33:57.000 And like this sounds like, you know, crazy and like, wow, it's self-destructive.

00:34:02.000 But again, you know, Chip Roy sent this letter to his colleagues threatening exactly that.

00:34:07.000 We're going to make your lives hell if you do this, if you completely betray your own base.

00:34:13.000 And again, that's a scary proposition, but I think that's the attitude that we need to have is this kind of willingness to lose.

00:34:20.000 Because ultimately, these losses are temporary.

00:34:23.000 But the convictions and the principles that we all, you know, like that our elected official supposedly stands for, those things are not ephemeral in passing.

00:34:31.000 So.

00:34:33.000 Pedro, Merry Christmas.

00:34:35.000 We need to focus on what is transcendent, what is beautiful, and what the soul yearns, which is an upward rising towards truth.

00:34:42.000 And boy, the Republican Party, they showed us what they're made of this last weekend.

00:34:47.000 And they're wondering, I wonder why all these Trump voters didn't show up for Oz in Pennsylvania.

00:34:53.000 Yeah, you wonder.

00:34:54.000 Pedro, thanks so much.

00:34:56.000 Thanks, Charlie.

00:34:58.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:34:59.000 Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:35:03.000 Thank you so much for listening and God bless.

00:35:08.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - December 23, 2022

Awaiting the Kari Lake Verdict with Rich Baris and Pedro Gonzalez

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