The Charlie Kirk Show - Banned from Google with Alex Marlow, Editor-In-Chief of Breitbart

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00:00:08.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:10.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:12.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:15.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:18.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:19.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:20.000 His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:29.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:00:38.000 That's why we are here.

00:00:40.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:41.000 Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:43.000 Joined today by my friend, the editor-in-chief of one of my favorite websites on the planet, Breitbart.com.

00:00:50.000 I actually got my political start writing for Breitbart.

00:00:53.000 Alex is one of the smartest people in the entire movement.

00:00:56.000 He does a three-hour satellite radio program every single morning from 6 to 9 Eastern.

00:01:02.000 Alex, welcome back to the Charlie Kirk Show.

00:01:04.000 Charlie, so great to be here.

00:01:06.000 Always appreciate getting an invite from you and your powerful platform.

00:01:09.000 Thank you.

00:01:10.000 So give us a little update from Breitbart.

00:01:12.000 You guys are banned from human consumption?

00:01:18.000 It's coming.

00:01:19.000 So we're de facto banned from Google, and I'll get into all the details on that.

00:01:23.000 And now we're partially banned from Twitter because we don't tend to roll over when people tell us we can't speak the mind and speak freely.

00:01:32.000 And Facebook kind of decides, depending on whatever side of the bed, Mark Zuckerberg wakes up on, whether or not we're going to be banned on that day.

00:01:40.000 But the big news that we broke earlier this week is that we've been tracking our traffic from Google search, and it is down almost to zero.

00:01:49.000 And this has been a precipitous decline since the 2016 election.

00:01:54.000 And as of May the 6th of this year, it's basically just completely off.

00:01:58.000 It's almost impossible to get a Breitbart story unless you type in the word Breitbart.

00:02:03.000 And the more political your search term gets, like Biden and Joe Biden, you're not going to find a Breitbart article within, you'll scroll back all day.

00:02:11.000 You'll never find one.

00:02:13.000 This is clear suppression, I believe.

00:02:14.000 And I'm happy to share with you some of the data that we uncovered.

00:02:18.000 Yeah, share some of that.

00:02:20.000 Okay, so what we looked at is it's all the story starts with a leaked video that we got of the TGIF meeting.

00:02:28.000 This is their all-hands-on-deck meeting that the Google CEOs, vice presidents, everyone, you can Skype in, whatever.

00:02:34.000 They do it every Friday.

00:02:35.000 It's since been banned because too much of it got leaked, I think.

00:02:39.000 But right after the 2016 election, it was tearful.

00:02:43.000 Everyone was mournful, sorrowful because Hillary Clinton had lost.

00:02:48.000 And of course, it's well known that Silicon Valley is a one-party town, a Democrat town.

00:02:53.000 So one of the things that was said during that meeting was by a guy named Kent Walker, who is the global affairs vice president of Google.

00:03:00.000 And he said he intends to make populism and nationalism, and by he meaning we, Google, a blip or a hiccup.

00:03:07.000 So Charlie, I know you're a student of the left, and when the left says that stuff, you got to take them seriously.

00:03:12.000 You don't take that as a joke.

00:03:14.000 So we started looking at our traffic from Google, and it started to decline a lot right after the 2016 election and steadily declining, steadily declining.

00:03:23.000 And then all of a sudden, it just dropped off a cliff to the floor in May.

00:03:27.000 And we started piecing back the specifics.

00:03:30.000 Here's what we looked at.

00:03:31.000 For example, Google looks at a metric called the visibility index.

00:03:36.000 That's like their Nielsen score.

00:03:37.000 That means it's not what you click on.

00:03:39.000 It's that if I search for a term, will you see a Breitbart story?

00:03:44.000 Particularly on the front page, it's kind of sorted that way.

00:03:47.000 Breitbart's visibility index in Google is down 99.7% from Election Day in 2016.

00:03:54.000 As I mentioned, if you search for a term Biden, you're not going to get a Breitbart link at all.

00:03:58.000 And Breitbart's traffic is down about two-thirds from Google searches.

00:04:03.000 And the only searches that are really yielding back traffic to Breitbart are searches with the word Breitbart in it.

00:04:09.000 So that's the only way to do it.

00:04:11.000 If you search for Alex Marlow, if you search for Joel Pollock, if you search for Matt Boyle, our most prominent people, you're still not going to get Breitbart links.

00:04:18.000 Like the people who spend their whole day working at Breitbart, they're not going to direct you to Breitbart.

00:04:22.000 So this seems like some of them might be political.

00:04:25.000 So naturally, we checked what we could get out of other websites.

00:04:29.000 We looked at the Daily Caller and Fox News, and we noticed that we looked at about 50 odd top-tier publishers, and eight of the bottom 10 were all conservative.

00:04:38.000 Breitbart being third to the bottom, with Daily Caller and the Daily Wire somehow being even lower than Breitbart, which is tough to do because it's hard to be lower than zero.

00:04:45.000 So yet somehow that's where they are.

00:04:48.000 And so we laugh so we don't cry, Charlie, because my thesis here is this is election interference.

00:04:54.000 They promised us that they were going to make populism and nationalism a blip or a hiccup, and that's what they've done.

00:05:00.000 So any undecided voter going to Google, looking for information on Joe Biden, they're not going to get Breitbart content.

00:05:06.000 They're probably not going to get any conservative content.

00:05:08.000 They're going to get the New York Times, CNN, and that's it.

00:05:11.000 I just did exactly what you asked, and I typed in Alex Marlow to Google, and I don't see any Breitbart links.

00:05:21.000 I do see one where it's a PBS link.

00:05:24.000 That's nice.

00:05:25.000 PBS.org.

00:05:27.000 Yeah, that's what people associate me with is government news, right?

00:05:30.000 I was going to say, that's perfect.

00:05:31.000 It's just spot on.

00:05:33.000 And so I go three or four pages.

00:05:35.000 One way you guys can do, and this is when we're going to turn this into a story, but this will be a little exclusive for your audience, Charlie.

00:05:40.000 That if you go to a Breitbart, pick out your favorite story of the day and search for the headline verbatim.

00:05:46.000 The Breitbart article won't come up.

00:05:47.000 You can search for an 11-word headline verbatim.

00:05:50.000 It will not show up in Google.

00:05:51.000 What might show up is someone who's either aggregating or literally ripping us off and plagiarizing us.

00:05:57.000 You might get that, but you're not going to get Breitbart.

00:05:58.000 Let me ask you a question.

00:06:00.000 Does Google admit that they're doing this and they give a reason?

00:06:04.000 Well, they were asked about it, thankfully, a couple of times.

00:06:07.000 It was brought up by Jim Jordan and they were pressed.

00:06:10.000 Google CEO, Sundar Pichai, was really pressed by Matt Gates on it during the subcommittee on antitrust this week in the House Judiciary.

00:06:19.000 But of course, there's no real answer.

00:06:20.000 They just announced that they love democracy and they really take voting rights seriously.

00:06:25.000 Well, they love democracy and voting rights when Democrats win.

00:06:28.000 They don't love it when Trump does well or conservatives do well or Republicans do well.

00:06:34.000 So they don't, they try to skirt around it.

00:06:37.000 So explain this to me.

00:06:39.000 Breitbart is a phenomenal institution that defends our country and defends what is right in the world.

00:06:48.000 But if you're not even able to be found on Google, are your First Amendment freedoms being violated?

00:06:56.000 That's how I feel.

00:06:58.000 You have to start with the premise that the concept of the First Amendment is something that is a collective responsibility and not just a government responsibility.

00:07:07.000 Now, if you can't buy into that with me, then this is probably not going to be your favorite episode of the Charlie Kirk podcast.

00:07:14.000 But if you can go there with me and understand that other than Donald Trump, the most powerful people on planet Earth are Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos and Sundar Pichai and Jack Dorsey and the people who control virtually all speech and information in the United States by a percentage, aside from private conversations you're having one-on-one.

00:07:33.000 Almost all speech that's taking place is dependent on these social media platforms.

00:07:37.000 And they can decide unilaterally if your business sinks or swims, if your news story gets prominent position or no position at all.

00:07:46.000 And once you realize that we've outsourced our First Amendment to these businesses, and by the way, Charlie, most all of these people are anonymous.

00:07:53.000 Maybe the top one or two people in each company are known, but that's about it.

00:07:58.000 Almost everyone else can have this level of power and control without any accountability to the public.

00:08:03.000 We don't even know their names.

00:08:05.000 And if those type of people can decide if your podcast episode or if your comment or if your link is going to get prominent placement or no placement, I mean, whoa, we got to reconsider where we're at in the United States.

00:08:18.000 Yeah, and so build this out for me because a lot of conservatives are reluctant to talk about this.

00:08:25.000 I think some are funded directly by the tech companies, far too many.

00:08:30.000 Far too many.

00:08:31.000 And I have been, I've been increasingly vocal about this in recent months.

00:08:35.000 You and I actually talked about this the last time you were on the Charlie Kirk show.

00:08:38.000 We went into, and it's only gotten worse.

00:08:39.000 I mean, every prediction we made actually was proven to be true.

00:08:43.000 And I believe you said, for the best of my memory, you said they're going to use this power to try to defeat Donald Trump.

00:08:48.000 And I mean, this is election interference.

00:08:50.000 And so, but this is a conundrum in some ways in conservative circles.

00:08:54.000 It's actually very simple for me, but for people that are free market fundamentalists, and I love free enterprise.

00:09:00.000 I think it's the best system that we have.

00:09:02.000 It is, yes.

00:09:04.000 But I also ask myself the question: are you more loyal to free market fundamentalism or towards first principles and our country?

00:09:15.000 And so when first principles in our country start to become not even under attack, that's not the right way to phrase it.

00:09:22.000 They just basically start to disappear because of a super governmental power that says they're a private company.

00:09:28.000 How should we react to that?

00:09:30.000 Yeah, I think you used an expression last time called super government, or forgive me if that's not exactly what you used, but I really liked it.

00:09:37.000 That sort of premise is what Silicon Valley does.

00:09:40.000 Other than the United States government, it is the most powerful, consolidated group of people on the planet.

00:09:45.000 They were never elected.

00:09:46.000 They were never chosen.

00:09:47.000 And they're largely anonymous, as I say repeatedly.

00:09:51.000 And for those people to choose winners and losers in a way that is completely opaque, and they only add very vague guidelines with subjective terms that they determine whether or not your content fits those terms or is an exception to their rules that are vaguely put into place and seem to change on a day-to-day basis and even a minute-to-minute basis.

00:10:14.000 That to me is not the free market.

00:10:16.000 The free market is letting people have a chance that the government get out of the way as best they can until people can survive.

00:10:23.000 But when the businesses themselves are using predatory practices and I believe outright discriminatory, ideologically discriminatory tactics to choose winners and losers, that is not freedom to me.

00:10:35.000 That is oppression.

00:10:36.000 And just because the oppression is not coming from the government, because it's coming from one industry, one sector of the economy, that to me is not freedom.

00:10:43.000 That to me is the exact opposite.

00:10:46.000 So the fundamentalists will say, or the dogmatic people, I think it's more dogmatic than fundamentalists.

00:10:52.000 They'll say, well, then go use a different search engine.

00:10:55.000 So that's a nice response.

00:10:57.000 I think it's wildly unrealistic.

00:11:00.000 I also think that it doesn't have any understanding of how these tech companies operate because they purchase all their competitors at a multiple at a very infant stage.

00:11:11.000 So anyone that might ever become a suitable competitor, they get purchased, they get offers that are 20 times revenue, not even earnings, just 20 times revenue.

00:11:20.000 Because Google will see, yeah, we might be able to incorporate some of their stuff.

00:11:23.000 But better yet, the long term, the long-term return is actually them not being around.

00:11:32.000 That's correct.

00:11:34.000 They figure out ways to, using crony tactics, to try to make sure they don't have any competition.

00:11:41.000 And there's lots of different tricks they use.

00:11:43.000 The Wall Street Journal had a big story on how Amazon was meeting with startups with the suggestion that they might invest in them, and then they end up launching competitive products.

00:11:52.000 So, they basically end up picking their brain and then going into direct competition with them, assuming the story is true.

00:11:58.000 Facebook has admitted to this.

00:11:59.000 It's been many years, but I think back in, I think it was 2012, Zuckerberg basically admitted that he's not going to let competitors use his platform to get a leg up, that that's not what he's going to do.

00:12:10.000 So, if his potential competitors were advertising or promoting themselves on Facebook to a certain degree or using Facebook to test out product and get information, that he was going to get in the way of that.

00:12:22.000 So, they're already on record saying such things.

00:12:24.000 And once you listen to their own words, this is one where you don't have to take my word for it.

00:12:29.000 They've said this stuff openly enough times.

00:12:32.000 Kent Walker is saying we're going to make nationalism and populism a blip or a hiccup, is admitting they are going to interfere in elections.

00:12:39.000 They're admitting it openly.

00:12:41.000 So, you don't, you don't have, it's not a conspiracy.

00:12:44.000 There's tape of it.

00:12:44.000 It's out there.

00:12:46.000 Is it time to break them up?

00:12:49.000 I think so.

00:12:50.000 I'm lighter on the solutions than I am on the reporting.

00:12:54.000 I love the idea of breaking them up.

00:12:56.000 But again, this is where Washington's going to have to come in.

00:12:58.000 I operate a news website, and I've got a pretty great radio show, I think, which you helped me with from time to time, Charlie.

00:13:05.000 I appreciate that.

00:13:06.000 But I like breaking them up.

00:13:08.000 I'm all ears for anything, but it can't be.

00:13:10.000 And by the way, I am totally into anyone who wants to launch their own startup and try to compete.

00:13:16.000 That's great too.

00:13:17.000 It's not just a government.

00:13:20.000 The solution is not just going to come from government.

00:13:22.000 But I do think that's probably where it begins: is if they have a clear monopoly in a certain area, you have to do something to break them up.

00:13:29.000 Google, I think, is multiple monopolies.

00:13:31.000 Search is the most obvious.

00:13:32.000 But our advertising market is just those same two or three companies, Facebook, Google, Amazon.

00:13:38.000 And you can go right on down the list.

00:13:40.000 Cloud computing is a concern.

00:13:42.000 There's so many areas where it's an oligopoly or an outright monopoly.

00:13:46.000 And that is not free market.

00:13:48.000 What's really stunning to see, Alex, is the left is very strategic, incredibly Machiavellian in this.

00:13:55.000 Now, the radical left, they're consistent sometimes, but even someone on the between that kind of jumps in between the two camps of radical left and mainstream left, whatever that means, they see these tech companies as an opportunity.

00:14:10.000 You see, they see them as a blunt forced object to be able to destroy conservatives all across the world and across the country.

00:14:17.000 And for them, they know they're going to be protected.

00:14:20.000 They know they're going to be preferred.

00:14:22.000 And so they will not do much of anything.

00:14:24.000 They also get an extraordinary amount of political campaign contributions from these companies. 0.66

00:14:29.000 Whereas if these companies were in any sort of other sector or industry, whether it be oil and gas or whether it be in just basic telecommunications or in retail like Walmart, they would be broken up instantaneously if they did not hold these kind of ridiculous left-wing dogmatic views.

00:14:48.000 And so people like Adam Schiff and people like Maxine Waters, they look at the social media titans as almost the fifth branch of government.

00:14:57.000 They really do.

00:14:58.000 And the fourth branch being the bureaucracies, the fifth branch being the tech companies.

00:14:58.000 They do.

00:15:02.000 I think that's the way we have to recognize that.

00:15:06.000 And so I've done a lot of thinking about this, and I've pleasantly debated some libertarians on this.

00:15:13.000 And I just, I have a lot of respect for them because they tend to be really smart people usually.

00:15:18.000 But they cannot answer this question, which is, where is the line where you would break them up?

00:15:23.000 And some of them say it doesn't exist.

00:15:25.000 I was like, that's a really silly answer.

00:15:28.000 Right, exactly. 0.62

00:15:29.000 Let's commit to a moment.

00:15:30.000 Let's commit to when is their market cap?

00:15:33.000 When is their revenue?

00:15:36.000 When do we hit that level?

00:15:38.000 Because you have to admit, I mean, we've hit it in the past.

00:15:40.000 Is there one out there?

00:15:41.000 Or can they just accumulate 100% of the market share in all their core businesses?

00:15:47.000 And then we can do nothing?

00:15:48.000 When can we do something?

00:15:50.000 Yeah, and so I the the strict libertarians, they say, well, Teddy Roosevelt never should have broke up in the companies.

00:15:56.000 He, you know, they just kind of very, and I don't actually agree with that.

00:15:59.000 I don't.

00:16:00.000 I've read their books, and I think that it's, let's just say a misinterpretation of history.

00:16:06.000 I think it's interesting.

00:16:07.000 It's thought-provoking where they say, oh, no, John D. Rockefeller should have been able to continue.

00:16:10.000 I just think that's kind of nuts.

00:16:12.000 But what I find really fascinating, though, Alex, and I want to dive into this, is that as I've done this on Google, and you kind of can go find the pro-Google literature written by conservative think tanks as like the first search result.

00:16:26.000 Interestingly enough, they boosted those search results.

00:16:28.000 And I look at these conservative think tanks that are funded by Google, and they write very pro tech company type literature. 0.98

00:16:37.000 And quite honestly, it's garbage. 0.95

00:16:39.000 You read it and they're like, oh, we should do nothing. 0.99

00:16:41.000 Look at all this wonderful innovation.

00:16:43.000 And then I think to myself, so they take money from these tech companies to go argue for pure free market dogma.

00:16:48.000 And I say, one of the great ironies of this, do you actually think Google believes in free market dogma?

00:16:53.000 Right.

00:16:54.000 Or do you think that they're using a specific love of the free market to protect their incumbency temporarily before they're able to create a new government?

00:17:04.000 That's exactly where you have to start thinking about.

00:17:07.000 That's why I always talk about it in the context of the left in terms of understanding their priorities.

00:17:12.000 And their priorities are going to be pushing the political agenda first because it's part of the nature of being on the left is politics is always above all else.

00:17:20.000 On the right, we have things like faith and family, maybe our business, maybe our first principles, but it's not going to be politics.

00:17:27.000 Politics will come in four, five, or six on our list.

00:17:30.000 Even people like you and me, Charlie, who live and breathe it every day.

00:17:33.000 I'm sure what animates you most in your life is not just purely being a political animal.

00:17:37.000 It's great ideas.

00:17:38.000 That's what I know you well enough.

00:17:39.000 That's what you're really interested in.

00:17:40.000 You're interested in great ideas of how they are formed and how they are implemented.

00:17:44.000 And I'm very similar.

00:17:46.000 I'm very interested in defeating the left, but there's other things that get me out of bed in the morning beyond that.

00:17:51.000 And not the left.

00:17:52.000 When you're in the left and you can see it, just look at the front page of Reitbart.com where we demonstrate this with example after example every day.

00:17:58.000 Everything in their core is about politics.

00:18:01.000 Look at the way they have tarnished Herman Cain.

00:18:04.000 They have made Herman Cain a cudgel to beat President Trump with pseudoscience acting as though they can prove that he got the coronavirus from the Trump rally because he specifically didn't wear a mask.

00:18:16.000 None of these people know if this is true or not.

00:18:18.000 And they have reduced a man who was a rocket scientist, who saved a pizza business, who was a happy warrior, who overcame segregation.

00:18:26.000 He's one of the great American stories possible.

00:18:29.000 And the media is distilling him down simply to the guy who didn't wear a mask at a Trump rally.

00:18:34.000 It's unbelievably offensive.

00:18:36.000 And it just reminds you, they know it's indecent to treat a man like that, yet they do it anyway.

00:18:41.000 Why?

00:18:41.000 Because of politics.

00:18:42.000 And I bring this back to big tech because if you see them through the lens that I do, which is Silicon Valley is a single party leftist town.

00:18:50.000 They're under obligation to make sure Democrats win.

00:18:53.000 When they get up in the morning, they have to assure that's the case.

00:18:56.000 And if not, then their platforms are being used for ill.

00:19:00.000 They're being used for evil.

00:19:01.000 That's the way they view you and me.

00:19:03.000 Our values, and not to mention your audience.

00:19:05.000 Most importantly, if you agree with the stuff Charlie and I are saying, they think of you as evil.

00:19:10.000 They might not admit it to your face.

00:19:11.000 They might give you some happy talk to your face, but behind your back, that's how they're talking about you.

00:19:16.000 And you know how I know?

00:19:16.000 We got the tape of them talking about us the exact same way.

00:19:20.000 So if people understand that, I think that there's hope that we can get to some understanding, but we've given them way too much power and they're only going to take more.

00:19:28.000 The last big principle I want to talk about for a second here, Charlie, is you should accept the concept that they're either getting more or less power at a given moment.

00:19:37.000 Their power is never even.

00:19:39.000 So it's never going to, it's never a flat line.

00:19:42.000 It's always going up or down.

00:19:43.000 So if you don't want it to go down, if you don't think Google should have less power, you think Google should have more power.

00:19:50.000 And that to me is pretty much a no-brainer.

00:19:53.000 You know, it's interesting when Chaz was created, people said, well, we have another new sovereign country.

00:19:57.000 I was like, well, you forget we have sovereign governments.

00:20:00.000 It's just called Google and Facebook.

00:20:02.000 We have to understand that they have almost a totalitarian capacity to be able to control minds, control human behavior, control all sorts of different ways of processing information.

00:20:16.000 I mean, and at Google, they have this saying where they say, do no evil or don't cross the creepy line, right?

00:20:22.000 And they actually changed it, which is really interesting.

00:20:24.000 Now they changed it to do good or something.

00:20:26.000 You would know better than I would.

00:20:28.000 Yeah, it used to be, it used to be don't be evil was their slogan, and they dropped it.

00:20:33.000 They dropped that as their slogan.

00:20:35.000 Yeah, now it's let's go do good.

00:20:37.000 I mean, that's just Mao would be smiling at that.

00:20:40.000 Oh, my God.

00:20:42.000 That's exactly right.

00:20:44.000 Let me throw a couple other pieces of data your way.

00:20:46.000 So Dr. Robert Epstein, who is an expert in this, one of the top experts, and he is actually going to vote for Biden.

00:20:53.000 He does not like the president, but he wants there to be democracy.

00:20:58.000 He's kind of old school liberal.

00:21:00.000 He actually believes in voting.

00:21:02.000 Yeah.

00:21:03.000 Yeah, right, exactly.

00:21:04.000 So even though he's not with us on politics, he is with us on these first principles.

00:21:09.000 And he thinks Google is going to manipulate the election to the tune of 10%.

00:21:13.000 Literally, they have the capacity to move 10% vote.

00:21:16.000 That means, Charlie, all the hard work you've done over the last few years, all the work we're doing at Breitbart, all of this will be completely erased simply by Google manipulation.

00:21:26.000 That's his view.

00:21:27.000 You know, I don't say I can confirm it, but this is a guy who's dedicated his life to this topic and wants to see Biden win, still sees that is the threat is that high, is that high.

00:21:37.000 Now, so if you think of it like that, and you look at the fact that Breitbart is getting maybe a third to a fifth of the traffic through Google as some of our top competitors, maybe even less relative to our overall traffic, and you start seeing how undecided voters are having their minds controlled by Google, who will not allow for them to see our content.

00:21:56.000 They're blocking our content, and that to me is blocking our democracy.

00:21:59.000 That's my viewpoint on it.

00:22:01.000 I completely agree.

00:22:02.000 And so part of the reason why the founding fathers put in the First Amendment is they had this very bold and proven to be correct idea that dialogue is really good and that dissenting ideas should be protected and that disagreement is healthy for a republic.

00:22:18.000 And in fact, we've defended that.

00:22:20.000 What's been so amazing is to see how the left has transformed in recent years.

00:22:25.000 I actually kind of missed the left of the ACLU where they took on tough fights for freedom of speech.

00:22:30.000 And the ACLU has now, if you go to their website, it's just, it's like no different than moveon.org now, basically.

00:22:38.000 And we must sue Trump for this.

00:22:41.000 We must do that.

00:22:42.000 And no mention at all whatsoever of the persecution of freedom of speech or any of that.

00:22:46.000 And so we don't talk enough about why does freedom of speech matter.

00:22:49.000 And you say it best, which is if you actually do not have freedom of speech and freedom of consciousness and dialogue and discourse, Course, well, then you basically surrender and sacrifice the entire zeitgeist and decision-making process to a group of people.

00:23:03.000 And then, therefore, by definition, they're going to probably make a bad decision.

00:23:07.000 And since it's such a centralized power structure, that bad decision could harm everybody.

00:23:11.000 And so, go ahead, you were going to come in.

00:23:14.000 Yeah, and there's no accountability for the bad decision.

00:23:16.000 Exactly.

00:23:16.000 So, if you look at, and if you look at just what they can do, and you brought this up at the top and how Breitbart is currently in Twitter timeout, we're currently in Twitter timeout because we live streamed, we simply streamed videos of doctors who do not have the orthodox view as sanctioned by our establishment media in Silicon Valley in the World Health Organization in terms of the coronavirus and treatments, et cetera, and lockdowns.

00:23:44.000 And these doctors, many of them are from some of the best institutions in the country, and a lot of them are board-certified or even double-board-certified.

00:23:52.000 These are not, these are not fringe people.

00:23:54.000 Most of them are very mainstream people.

00:23:56.000 This is mainstream thought for the most part.

00:23:58.000 So, what the media did is, even though we live streamed, we did not endorse, we did not fact-check or confirm, we merely live-streamed actual doctors in White Coast giving a press conference on Capitol Hill.

00:24:11.000 And they would cherry-pick one or two comments made by one of the doctors and used that to define the entire multiple-day event.

00:24:20.000 And not only that, anyone who dared to carry that event was then memory-holed from the internet.

00:24:25.000 Don Jr. was blocked out.

00:24:27.000 Breitbart's reach on Facebook was shut down for a couple of days.

00:24:30.000 And this is exactly the point I'm trying to make.

00:24:32.000 These are anonymous non-doctors telling doctors what they can and can't say on the internet.

00:24:38.000 Wow.

00:24:39.000 Yeah. 0.51

00:24:40.000 And I mean, they just, according to our team here, Dr. Simone Gold was just fired.

00:24:45.000 So, that's the price that, and we had that conversation with her privately.

00:24:49.000 I said, they're going to come after you and they will try to destroy your life completely.

00:24:54.000 And so, here, I want to end the conversation on this, Alex, which is the outrage that I have for the people on the right that take money from these tech companies, that are funded by them, that play nice with them, and they hide behind their free market fundamentalism.

00:25:09.000 And I think we have to get a lot tougher is not the correct word.

00:25:14.000 I think we have to, boy, what's the right word?

00:25:17.000 We have to treat them as if they were taking money from our most brutal enemy.

00:25:23.000 And can you comment on that about how actually the people within our own ranks are accepting money from these tyrants that hate our guts that actually want to topple Western society using technology?

00:25:36.000 You're exactly right.

00:25:37.000 And big tech, which of course, this was hammered during the hearing this week, is of course much more open to doing business with places like China than they are with the United States government, which is not surprising, I think, for people paying attention, but is still disturbing.

00:25:54.000 What they're doing in Washington is they're among the biggest lobbyists now in Washington is the big tech industry.

00:26:00.000 They have huge operations here.

00:26:02.000 Facebook just opened up a huge operation here.

00:26:05.000 Google is one of the biggest lobbyists.

00:26:07.000 And what are they doing?

00:26:08.000 Lobbying is really code for bribery.

00:26:11.000 And they're going around and they've got their pocketbooks open and they are trying to buy off as many people as they can in Washington.

00:26:18.000 And this is part of the reason why you hear crickets from the right.

00:26:22.000 Even many of those who understand this is a problem, they still need to take that money.

00:26:27.000 And I come here with a positive, though, I have a positive message on this.

00:26:31.000 I believe this is such a 360-degree win politically.

00:26:34.000 I think the people see big tech as a villain.

00:26:37.000 They want it taken on.

00:26:39.000 And if you do that, I think the public will reward you.

00:26:42.000 I think this is left, right, and center.

00:26:43.000 This is not a partisan thing.

00:26:45.000 I think people who take on big tech, I think they will see some of that cash flow Replaced by other good actors in the country who simply want our freedom back from these Silicon Valley giants.

00:26:59.000 This is why I think it's such a big thing.

00:27:02.000 It's such a big thing.

00:27:03.000 And we're trying to document who's taking money, who's taking the most, and who's merely talking a good game and not acting because they're taking money.

00:27:11.000 Congressman Greg Stuby came on my radio show this week and said he's now refusing to take additional money from Silicon Valley.

00:27:18.000 But that's one congressperson out of 538.

00:27:18.000 That's a big step.

00:27:21.000 I want to see 537 more come out and say, I'm not going to take this money.

00:27:25.000 Well, the Republicans shouldn't either.

00:27:26.000 And the Republicans shouldn't have their convention funded by Google, which happens every four years.

00:27:31.000 And look, it's very tempting.

00:27:33.000 They come and they offer money, and it's like, oh, yeah, whatever.

00:27:35.000 We love the free market.

00:27:36.000 Yeah, technology, it's great. 0.67

00:27:37.000 Like, okay, well, you might as well take money from the Soviet Union. 0.75

00:27:40.000 But the only difference is that Stalin wasn't able to create artificial intelligence and control 92% of the planet's search results. 0.63

00:27:51.000 Big difference. 0.71

00:27:52.000 And so I agree with you in one sense, and I think you're more positive than I am on one of it, which is I think it just gets to a structural root cause issue.

00:28:00.000 And you and I talked about this back on the last time.

00:28:02.000 I think one of the biggest problems we have in American politics is how we fund our elections.

00:28:06.000 And I am not a proponent of publicly funding elections.

00:28:08.000 I'm not saying that.

00:28:09.000 I don't go that far.

00:28:10.000 But I do think that what you just said articulates it perfectly.

00:28:14.000 It's legalized bribery in a lot of different ways, where a lot of our elected officials, especially on the Republican side, they'll be like, yeah, I really agree with you, but I'm not going to do anything about this.

00:28:22.000 Well, that's not a republic that's functioning.

00:28:25.000 And especially when you have foreign interests that can do that, or I mean, for all intents and purposes, the tech companies are foreign interests because they don't share our ethos.

00:28:25.000 It's not.

00:28:33.000 I don't care if they're in Silicon Valley or they're in Wuhan.

00:28:36.000 I mean, for all intents and purposes, they're a foreign ideology.

00:28:39.000 It doesn't matter if they're domiciled in our country.

00:28:40.000 And increasingly, much of their business is overseas, and they know it.

00:28:44.000 And they know that's where it's going.

00:28:45.000 It's going to be a majority international business over time if it's not there already.

00:28:51.000 And one of the most popular presidents in American history was a Republican, Teddy Roosevelt.

00:28:56.000 And we're not supposed to talk about him, right?

00:28:57.000 We're supposed to just kind of say, oh, yeah, he was the worst thing ever.

00:29:00.000 And, you know, I grew up in certain conservative circles where I read literature saying he was an awful overreaching power grabber.

00:29:07.000 And I've revisited some of that literature.

00:29:09.000 And I think there's some truth to some of that.

00:29:12.000 I think some of his quotes were probably a little aggressive at times where he said, you know, I'm not going to let the Constitution get in the way of a good idea.

00:29:18.000 I'm like, okay, a little bit exciting.

00:29:19.000 But I don't know if we've ever experienced a politician recently, Alex, that says things a little aggressive.

00:29:25.000 I will have to revisit that.

00:29:26.000 But the point is: this is that he was incredibly popular in a lot of ways, actually helped create American capitalism as we know it in the 20th century.

00:29:36.000 What do you make of that?

00:29:37.000 Yeah, I think that I like Teddy Roosevelt's populism.

00:29:41.000 Again, I'm with you.

00:29:41.000 I don't think you have to accept every single idea the guy ever had.

00:29:44.000 Charlie, who on earth came up with that standard that you have to endorse every idea any person ever has?

00:29:50.000 I love that.

00:29:52.000 Who came up with that?

00:29:53.000 I find this to be a constant battle in my life that it's now just because we cover something at Breitbart, I endorse everything a human being's ever done in their entire life.

00:30:02.000 It's just an absurd thing that is just so.

00:30:05.000 And by the way, it's someone who kind of gets some of his values from the Bible.

00:30:09.000 It's so anti-so anti-Judeo-Christian because we all kind of come into the world with the premise that we're all sinners and we're all flawed.

00:30:17.000 And then now I'm supposed to, if I endorse one idea, I've endorse the entire person.

00:30:22.000 But I like Teddy Roosevelt's populism.

00:30:24.000 I think his instincts there is there is a level where the free market and the size and scope of businesses does overwhelm what is best for the people on an individual level.

00:30:34.000 It's very tricky when that comes in.

00:30:36.000 I'm like you.

00:30:36.000 I'm steeped in the same traditional conservative literature.

00:30:39.000 I'm very reluctant to call on the government to do anything.

00:30:42.000 But we do need to change the laws here.

00:30:43.000 We got a billion laws.

00:30:45.000 We need to change some of the laws to protect the citizens from these anonymous elite in one part of the country.

00:30:50.000 Well, the Sherman Antitrust Act passed in 1890 was about consumer exploitation.

00:30:55.000 And you can make an argument, actually.

00:30:57.000 Amazon and Apple are probably in that.

00:30:59.000 Google has been a lot more careful because they saw this coming.

00:31:02.000 They're like, oh, well, we don't charge anything.

00:31:03.000 Well, first of all, if you think the product is free, you are the product, just so you understand they're selling you.

00:31:09.000 Yes.

00:31:10.000 Oh, that was it.

00:31:11.000 That drove me crazy in this hearing Sundar Pachai talking about how proud he is that Google's free.

00:31:16.000 It's, yeah, because you're harvesting our data and you're selling it to people.

00:31:19.000 It's a, that lie, that ability to lie like that is really unbelievable.

00:31:24.000 That is, it's Orwellian.

00:31:26.000 It's worse than that.

00:31:28.000 I'm going to do the opposite of the truth and project it on you.

00:31:31.000 And so in closing here, Alex, I think that the money and politics issue, you and I can talk on a separate podcast.

00:31:39.000 I actually think that's why we have ridiculous policies on immigration.

00:31:44.000 Everything is such that the corporate class just drives everything because they fund the elections.

00:31:48.000 And I actually think a lot of these politicians, if they were given a decision that they would make independent of corporate lobbyist pressure, they would actually generally side with the way that you and I see the world.

00:31:58.000 And so I just get, I continually see good ideas get interrupted, killed, disrupted, and thwarted by the lobbyist class because of how we fund our elections.

00:32:06.000 So that's a different topic.

00:32:07.000 But with that being aside, with putting that aside, specifically, what should be the message for conservatives in the next couple months for big tech and the next couple of years?

00:32:18.000 Build this out for us.

00:32:19.000 Where is this going if we don't do anything?

00:32:21.000 Because this is the beginning, not the middle or the end.

00:32:24.000 This is like the very beginning of their tyrannical march to destroy Western society.

00:32:30.000 And also, what can we do about it?

00:32:32.000 Yeah, the what can we do about a part again is this is one that's much tougher.

00:32:36.000 I would start small.

00:32:38.000 I start with the raise awareness.

00:32:39.000 We have to share this with people.

00:32:41.000 We have to tell people.

00:32:42.000 And we have to, I think at this point, it's time to investigate Google and their practices and their algorithm to see whether or not it does discriminate against people based off of legitimate mainstream viewpoints, which I don't know what the laws would be on that, but it seems illegal.

00:32:56.000 I like looking at the antitrust.

00:32:58.000 I know the attorney generals are cooking something up on Google on that front.

00:33:02.000 I'm very curious to see where that goes.

00:33:04.000 I think developing alternatives, funding alternatives is a big deal.

00:33:08.000 Accepting money from these big tech giants is totally unacceptable.

00:33:12.000 And every Republican who accepts money should get primaried.

00:33:15.000 I'm not saying I want to throw all of them out.

00:33:17.000 Some of them are going to be decent, and I'm just going to disagree with them on this issue.

00:33:20.000 And I'll group them on nine out of 10 other issues.

00:33:22.000 I'm a realist in this regard, Charlie.

00:33:24.000 But you have to put pressure on these people.

00:33:26.000 You should primary them and say that if you're taking money from the people who want to destroy your own voters' livelihoods online, that is not something we can tolerate.

00:33:34.000 Yeah.

00:33:35.000 And so I think we should give a grace period.

00:33:36.000 You have 15 days to return all the Google money you've ever taken, and then we're going to judge you on that.

00:33:41.000 15 days, send it back.

00:33:42.000 Fine.

00:33:43.000 Maybe you were unaware.

00:33:44.000 Maybe some consultant did that.

00:33:46.000 Whatever.

00:33:46.000 Okay.

00:33:47.000 Now you have an opportunity to do right there.

00:33:50.000 And now you can make independent decisions.

00:33:51.000 Okay.

00:33:52.000 And I completely agree with that.

00:33:54.000 And you also brought up, you brought up a point that really was thought-provoking here in one sense, which is that the more we talk about it, the better, because that's what tech hates.

00:34:04.000 Tech hates the fact that they're subpoenaed and that there's a light on them.

00:34:07.000 And actually, it was so funny.

00:34:08.000 We had somebody on the podcast, I can't even remember who you were talking to, where all of a sudden there was one thing and it got reversed as soon as they started talking about it.

00:34:14.000 And it just kind of goes to show the power there.

00:34:18.000 And also, I think there are some really interesting policy ideas.

00:34:21.000 Dr. Robert Epstein, who you mentioned, he thinks that this can all be solved by making the Google algorithm public.

00:34:28.000 I don't know if you've heard about that.

00:34:29.000 Yeah, that's his solution.

00:34:30.000 Yeah, no, I've talked to him about it, and maybe you might know it even better than I do.

00:34:34.000 I mean, I want to hear your thought.

00:34:36.000 I think it's very interesting.

00:34:38.000 I think that there's different buckets, and I think we're going to get better at talking about it as we move on.

00:34:44.000 And I think that's just what happens in conservative circles is we kind of get a little bit surprised.

00:34:50.000 And you and I were really well versed in this, but we have to kind of bring along some of these lawmakers on this.

00:34:55.000 So I think you have to look at this in different buckets.

00:34:57.000 I think you have to do the first bucket is platform access, freedom of speech, and capacity to be able to use the platform.

00:35:03.000 Another bucket is: are you going to use the broader power of your platform to manipulate human behavior and human choices, which are actually a different thing?

00:35:11.000 Because that's like search engine manipulation and all sorts of different stuff.

00:35:14.000 Where the other one is, why can't I get a YouTube channel?

00:35:17.000 That's kind of a major.

00:35:19.000 Why are you taking down this video in particular and my content?

00:35:22.000 Then the other bucket is: are you potentially thwarting potential other competition and other market, other entrepreneurs in the market that might want to compete against you?

00:35:31.000 And so I think these are all just different buckets.

00:35:33.000 I don't want to conflate them.

00:35:35.000 And some of these companies are far worse actors in different areas than others, right?

00:35:40.000 Absolutely.

00:35:40.000 And we can't let Apple off the hook here.

00:35:42.000 I mean, I have an iPhone.

00:35:45.000 The Apple News push notifications I get, I mean, I might as well be in Havana, Cuba.

00:35:51.000 I mean, I've never seen a positive thing about my country push-notified me on Apple News.

00:35:56.000 And it actually makes me sick to my stomach because I can only imagine the 15, 16, and 17-year-olds that get these push notifications in Apple News, the world that they think they live in, right?

00:36:04.000 I mean, and again, I just did it as a test.

00:36:06.000 I didn't go through the Apple News notification.

00:36:07.000 I just said, just send me general news.

00:36:09.000 And I get nothing but Huffington Post BuzzFeed NPR about how America's an awful place.

00:36:14.000 So tell me how many iPhones you think there are in the United States at the moment.

00:36:20.000 If I were to guess, I mean, 330 million people.

00:36:22.000 I'm going to guess 105 million.

00:36:25.000 Yeah, that's pretty good.

00:36:26.000 I know it's nine figures.

00:36:28.000 So we got that number.

00:36:29.000 So we're over 100 million.

00:36:31.000 And every one of them has a default search browser.

00:36:34.000 What's that browser going to be?

00:36:35.000 Well, the default search browser is Safari.

00:36:38.000 So Safari's default browser, the default search engine in Apple, is going to be Google.

00:36:44.000 It's going to be Google.

00:36:45.000 So you're getting, they're feeding 100 million people straight to Google, straight to get.

00:36:50.000 You can reset it now at this point.

00:36:51.000 I think you can if you go into the settings, you can put DuckDuckGo or something like that.

00:36:55.000 But it's a very people who I got to tell you, I haven't changed it.

00:36:58.000 So I know when I'm logging into my iPhone, that I'm getting sent Hoving to Post content and CNN and New York Times, and I'm not going to get Breitbart content.

00:37:05.000 And this is all subtly nefarious.

00:37:07.000 And this is exactly what keeps ideas like the ones you and I work so hard to hone and craft and to make reasonable and accessible.

00:37:15.000 And no one even gets a chance to debate with us on this because unless you're already a fan or you've someone who personally turns you onto it, it's so hard to discover conservative thought at this point.

00:37:27.000 And they're hiding it.

00:37:28.000 They are hiding Breitbart.

00:37:30.000 They're going to hide you if they're not already, Charlie.

00:37:32.000 We know they're hiding people like Don Jr.

00:37:34.000 They're going to keep hiding people.

00:37:36.000 Exactly.

00:37:37.000 And that's exactly where it's going to go.

00:37:39.000 And if they don't hide you, they'll come up with some excuse to cancel you outright like they've done with so many others.

00:37:44.000 This is the moment.

00:37:45.000 It's a what Breitbart exposed was proof, hard proof that it has been connecting the dots from that meeting in 2016 to the dip in traffic, to the erasure of traffic on Joe Biden.

00:37:56.000 They are trying to rig the election.

00:37:58.000 It is happening.

00:37:59.000 And if the right does not take it seriously right now, this could be it.

00:38:02.000 If we don't see some progress right now, then I don't know what's going to happen.

00:38:05.000 I'm not saying you're going to solve the whole thing.

00:38:07.000 I'm not saying you're going to successfully break everyone up in the next 90 days.

00:38:11.000 But I am saying people need to know about it, need to talk about it.

00:38:13.000 And there needs to be unrelenting pressure on these companies to start behaving above board and transparently.

00:38:20.000 I completely agree.

00:38:21.000 Everyone should make Breitbart.com their homepage.

00:38:23.000 That would really screw them up.

00:38:25.000 And especially if you're using Google Chrome, they know they're losing.

00:38:29.000 Stop using Google Chrome as I'm using Google Chrome in front of me.

00:38:32.000 It kind of goes to show.

00:38:33.000 I mean, but look, they're very proud.

00:38:35.000 He'd be very proud.

00:38:36.000 Yeah, the products that they create at times are highly addictive.

00:38:39.000 They're built that way.

00:38:40.000 They're supposed to be seen.

00:38:41.000 They're addictive.

00:38:42.000 Exactly.

00:38:43.000 It's hard to turn off. 0.99

00:38:44.000 Yeah, and then they're staffed by Bolsheviks. 1.00

00:38:46.000 Alex, thank you. 0.60

00:38:47.000 Everyone, check out breitbart.com, and you got to write a book on this.

00:38:50.000 I think it would be phenomenal.

00:38:51.000 I think it would be a bestseller.

00:38:53.000 That may or may not be happening.

00:38:54.000 Thank you.

00:38:55.000 I appreciate that.

00:38:59.000 If it happens, we'll see.

00:39:00.000 One day soon, maybe.

00:39:02.000 And if you guys want to throw me a follow online, I'm just starting to do social media at Alex Marlow on Twitter.

00:39:08.000 And then you can see links to my Facebook, Instagram, and stuff like that.

00:39:11.000 Well, we're going to keep talking till they put us in prison.

00:39:13.000 Alex, awesome to have you on here.

00:39:15.000 Thanks so much.

00:39:16.000 Charlie, next time we'll do this from a gulag.

00:39:18.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:39:19.000 All right.

00:39:19.000 See you soon.

00:39:20.000 Bye.

00:39:21.000 See ya.

The Charlie Kirk Show - August 01, 2020

Banned from Google with Alex Marlow, Editor-In-Chief of Breitbart

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