The Charlie Kirk Show - Beethoven is Better with Senator Josh Hawley

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, today in the Charlie Kirk show, we start with Senator Josh Hawley and then we talk about Beethoven and your take on Lindsey Graham getting behind Donald Trump.

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00:00:46.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

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00:01:27.000 Batting first in the lineup today, right off the bat, batting leadoff, you could say, is the great senator from Missouri, Senator Josh Hawley, joins us right now.

00:01:38.000 Senator, welcome back to the program.

00:01:40.000 Charlie, thanks for having me.

00:01:42.000 Senator, a lot of topics I want to touch on.

00:01:44.000 Let's first talk about Ukraine.

00:01:46.000 You have an America-first approach to what's happening in Ukraine.

00:01:52.000 And I want your opinion of what is the Washington, D.C. consensus right now.

00:01:57.000 The Uniparty seems to want to escalate what's happening in Ukraine. 0.63

00:02:01.000 How should we think about what's happening in Ukraine?

00:02:03.000 Well, what we should think about is the trade-offs, what it means for America.

00:02:06.000 And what we should be doing, first of all, Charlie, is prioritizing America's national security, America's standing in the world, America's prosperity.

00:02:17.000 So listen, here's how I think about Ukraine.

00:02:19.000 We can continue writing blank checks to Ukraine, which is what the establishment of both parties in Washington want to do, or we can secure our own border.

00:02:29.000 And when it comes to overseas threats, we can do what we need to do to counter China, which is our number one foreign threat. 0.97

00:02:35.000 Our number one foreign threat is not in Ukraine.

00:02:37.000 Our number one foreign threat is in Asia. 0.99

00:02:39.000 It's China. 0.90

00:02:40.000 And right now, they're running rampant, and we're not doing anything effective to deter them.

00:02:44.000 And we just can't do all of the above.

00:02:45.000 So, I mean, what happens here is what is happening is that the D.C. establishment says, let's just keep spending.

00:02:50.000 Let's keep sending tanks.

00:02:52.000 Let's send F-16s. 0.99

00:02:54.000 Let's send, let's basically fight a proxy war against Russia in Ukraine.

00:02:58.000 And, you know, my view of that is that if we do that, that will be another forever war.

00:03:02.000 We will be tying down there potentially for a generation.

00:03:05.000 It'll be Afghanistan and Iraq and nation building all over again.

00:03:08.000 Well, and so what do your colleagues in the Senate say success looks like in Ukraine?

00:03:13.000 When you talk about Ukraine, I mean, it seems as if abstractions are their answer.

00:03:17.000 Like, well, we want to drive the Russians completely out of Ukraine. 1.00

00:03:20.000 That's not a strategy.

00:03:21.000 That's not a plan.

00:03:22.000 In fact, that could be a recipe for disaster.

00:03:24.000 What do your colleagues say in private, deep, their deeply held beliefs of what success would look like in Ukraine?

00:03:30.000 Oh, I don't think they know.

00:03:31.000 I think that's part of the problem.

00:03:32.000 I don't think they know what success looks like.

00:03:33.000 You know, you hear them say things like, well, we want to win.

00:03:36.000 You know, we want Ukraine to win.

00:03:39.000 Well, I mean, I don't know what that means.

00:03:41.000 I mean, listen, I've got no love for the Russians. 1.00

00:03:43.000 I mean, I'd love to see the Russians lose. 1.00

00:03:45.000 I mean, you know, anything we could do to bleed Vladimir Putin is totally fine by me.

00:03:49.000 I mean, I think the guy's a bad actor, but let's look at this through a realistic lens that puts American interests at the top of the list, that puts America first.

00:03:58.000 If you do that, you say we cannot nation build in Ukraine, write blank checks to Ukraine, fight a proxy war in Ukraine, and do the other things, Charlie, we have to do to keep this country safe.

00:04:10.000 So my view is that I'm a nationalist when it comes to foreign policy.

00:04:14.000 I evaluate everything that's happening overseas and in the world through the lens of what makes America strong, what keeps the American people safe and prosperous.

00:04:23.000 And I can tell you that writing blank checks to Ukraine and fighting a proxy war there is not the answer.

00:04:28.000 And so I think there is no strategy.

00:04:29.000 That's what concerns me.

00:04:31.000 It is a policy of incremental escalation with no strategy for an ending or for a conclusion.

00:04:38.000 And that's why I say this will end up as another forever war.

00:04:41.000 Yeah.

00:04:41.000 And I, I mean, first I want to applaud you for your courage and your clarity on this.

00:04:45.000 It's super rare to have actually somebody that comes out in the U.S. Senate and says, I don't think this Ukraine thinks makes any sense at all. 0.99

00:04:52.000 Let's play Cut 36.

00:04:54.000 Raytheon, CEO, says Ukraine has depleted the weapon stocks faster than expected.

00:04:59.000 Boy, this is a gift to the weapons manufacturers.

00:05:02.000 They're going to have record profits.

00:05:04.000 I'm not telling anybody what stocks to buy, but if you were to buy Northrop Grumman or Lockheed Martin or Raytheon, I can't imagine you'll do poorly even in a recession.

00:05:12.000 Play Cut 36.

00:05:14.000 So as we think about it, all of the weapons that have been delivered to Ukraine have come out of, I would say, current inventory.

00:05:21.000 We're not building any of those or replenishing any of those today, although we're working on it.

00:05:26.000 The fact is we are drawing down weapons stocks much faster.

00:05:30.000 And I think I said this last week.

00:05:31.000 We've gone through in the first 10 months of the war, five years worth of production on javelin anti-tank missiles, and we've gone through 13 years worth of Stinger production.

00:05:40.000 So it's going to take us some time to catch up.

00:05:44.000 And I mean, it's great for business, obviously, for Raytheon, Senator, but that's not good for our national security.

00:05:50.000 No, it's terrible for our national security.

00:05:52.000 And what it's really terrible for is our effort and our desperate need, Charlie, to deter China. 0.95

00:05:57.000 If you think about our foreign policy threats here, where is our greatest foreign policy threat?

00:06:02.000 It is an imperialist China that wants to dominate our supply chains, that wants to shut down our ability to trade on fair terms, that wants to steal our jobs and steal our technology. 0.90

00:06:13.000 What are we doing to counter that?

00:06:14.000 Basically nothing.

00:06:15.000 And what China sees right now is the Americans are completely tied down in Europe.

00:06:19.000 The Americans are spending all of this money and using all of their munitions on Ukraine in this proxy war with Russia.

00:06:26.000 And therefore, the Chinese are concluding they can run rampant in Asia. 1.00

00:06:30.000 They can continue their efforts at imperial domination.

00:06:32.000 Taiwan will be next.

00:06:33.000 And why do we care about any of that?

00:06:34.000 Well, because it's about our security and prosperity.

00:06:37.000 I mean, if you think the supply chain crunch is a problem now, wait until China invades Taiwan and shuts down our shipping lanes.

00:06:44.000 Wait until they kick us out of our trade routes in the Pacific, which is what they want to do.

00:06:49.000 And we're not doing anything to counter that.

00:06:51.000 So I just say to my friends, my Republican friends who say, well, we've got to engage with the world.

00:06:55.000 They'll find.

00:06:56.000 Let's engage with the world in a way that puts American interests first.

00:06:59.000 And that would mean deterring China to present a war with them to protect our interests and our trade and our prosperity.

00:07:06.000 And that would mean telling the Europeans, hey, listen, Ukraine is on your continent.

00:07:11.000 You need to take first responsibility for Europe.

00:07:15.000 You need to stand up and take the lead there.

00:07:17.000 But that's not what the Europeans are doing. 0.51

00:07:18.000 They're sandbagging, Charlie.

00:07:20.000 Yeah.

00:07:20.000 So does anyone, is anyone talking about peace?

00:07:23.000 I mean, I haven't heard that word at all.

00:07:24.000 It's only about escalation.

00:07:25.000 Are there peace talks?

00:07:26.000 Are there negotiations?

00:07:28.000 Are the Americans in some ways?

00:07:29.000 I mean, I see Lindsey Graham, one of your colleagues, go to Ukraine and just talk about raising the temperature while flanked by the two most liberal senators in the Senate.

00:07:39.000 Why is it that the consensus in DC is not talking about some sort of resolution here?

00:07:46.000 I mean, it's puzzling when you have such a high-stakes conflict, the proxy war, where Germany says a NATO country, we're involved in this.

00:07:55.000 Are there active peace talks that are being facilitated by the Americans, Senator?

00:08:00.000 Or are we missing something?

00:08:02.000 If there are, Charlie, I don't know about them.

00:08:04.000 I don't know about them.

00:08:05.000 I think what's happened here is a couple of things.

00:08:06.000 I think that the administration, the Biden administration, stumbled into a quagmire that they don't know how to get out of now.

00:08:12.000 They now realize that, oops, Europe has left us holding the bag on Ukraine.

00:08:17.000 There was all this big talk a year ago, oh, grand coalition.

00:08:19.000 You know, the Europeans are really going to step up and they're going to send arms and munitions to Ukraine.

00:08:24.000 Well, not so much.

00:08:25.000 Now the Europeans are predictably backing away.

00:08:28.000 Germany wouldn't even send tanks until we committed.

00:08:31.000 The United States committed to sending tanks.

00:08:33.000 Germany now is like, well, you send them first, and then maybe we'll send a few things. 0.61

00:08:37.000 We have spent more in Ukraine and sent more arms and munitions, Charlie, than all of Europe combined.

00:08:44.000 So now the administration realizes, oh, this is now our fight.

00:08:47.000 I mean, we're the ones who are holding it back, and they don't know what to do about it.

00:08:50.000 They don't know how to get out of it.

00:08:51.000 And then you've got the Democrats, the liberals, who, of course, were pro-Soviet for decades.

00:08:56.000 I mean, these are the people who are basically for the Soviet Union.

00:08:58.000 Let's remember back to the Cold War.

00:08:59.000 Did they support Reagan and his fight against the Cold War against the Soviet Union?

00:09:03.000 No.

00:09:03.000 So I think there's a little bit of, you know, trying to make up for past misdeeds.

00:09:07.000 Oh, we'll talk tough on Russia, you know, and people maybe forget that we've always been soft when it comes to communists in the past.

00:09:13.000 But what's happening is the communists today in China are running rampant.

00:09:18.000 They're getting ready to eat our lunch.

00:09:19.000 They're getting ready to take away our jobs, to kill our economy, and we are not prepared to do anything about it.

00:09:25.000 And that's before we even talk about the domestic issues like our southern border.

00:09:29.000 I couldn't agree more.

00:09:30.000 And they act all tough when it comes to Russia, but they're perfectly fine with the Chinese Communist Party taking over the world. 0.98

00:09:37.000 Perfectly fine with that.

00:09:38.000 Fine with them dumping products in our nation, fentanyl, amongst many other things.

00:09:45.000 Okay, Kirk fans, I need you to stop and pay attention to this.

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00:09:53.000 New resolutions, habits, and thought processes.

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00:12:33.000 Senator, you have recently introduced a piece of legislation to make sure we no longer have people like Nancy Pelosi making all this money on alleged insider trading or congressional deals.

00:12:46.000 I am curious, though, and perhaps you can help me understand.

00:12:50.000 Wasn't there a piece of legislation that was signed into law back in 2012 called the Stock Act, the Stop Trading on Congressional Knowledge Act?

00:12:58.000 How is your bill different?

00:13:00.000 Or do we not enforce that other bill or does it not have teeth?

00:13:04.000 Please explain it to me.

00:13:06.000 Yeah, so the old law, Charlie, just requires members of Congress to disclose when they trade stock.

00:13:12.000 It doesn't prohibit them from owning individual stock, doesn't prohibit stock trading, but it says when you do it, you've got to disclose it within a certain number of days.

00:13:19.000 And of course, it reiterates with already the law for everybody, which is that insider trading is illegal.

00:13:25.000 Now, get this, though.

00:13:26.000 Many members of Congress, and including the Senate, don't comply with the Stock Act, Charlie.

00:13:31.000 They don't even pretend to.

00:13:32.000 They just don't file their disclosures.

00:13:33.000 I mean, so there's no enforcement mechanism that's serious in that act.

00:13:36.000 And so basically, members of Congress not only own the stock, not only trade the stock, they don't disclose it. 0.94

00:13:42.000 And they just say, oh, screw you, basically. 0.61

00:13:44.000 We're not going to do it. 0.98

00:13:44.000 So here's what my bill does. 0.98

00:13:45.000 My bill says no more stock trading at all by members of Congress.

00:13:50.000 In fact, no more stock ownership.

00:13:52.000 If you come to Congress, you ought to be focused on doing what the people sends you here to do, not playing the stock market.

00:13:57.000 So listen, if you want to save, great.

00:13:59.000 You can buy mutual funds.

00:14:01.000 That's what most Americans do with their savings, but you shouldn't be buying up stock in individual companies.

00:14:06.000 And you shouldn't be doing what Nancy Pelosi and her family have done, which is making millions off of their position on the stock market.

00:14:12.000 And so, Senator, is it fair to say that Pelosi and her husband or just kind of all their friends that they'll go into a committee, sometimes with classified information, and then sell or buy stock, acting on the information?

00:14:27.000 How is that not, forget the congressional side of it?

00:14:30.000 How is that not a blatant violation of the Security Exchange Commission's rules on trading on non-public information?

00:14:39.000 Well, you've seen multiple members of Congress of both parties, I have to say, investigated for this, Charlie, just in the last few years.

00:14:45.000 There were a flurry of trades around COVID, you might remember, where a whole bunch of reps and senators who got briefings, right, all of a sudden North Carolina.

00:14:53.000 That's right.

00:14:54.000 Yep.

00:14:54.000 Yeah, that's right, among others.

00:14:55.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:14:56.000 And so here's what I take away from that.

00:14:58.000 And I should say that Senator Bird, he was not prosecuted.

00:15:01.000 None of them were.

00:15:02.000 And so, you know, I assume that's correct and there was no wrongdoing.

00:15:05.000 But here's the deal.

00:15:07.000 A lot of times what happens is members of Congress in briefings are given information that may not be classified.

00:15:12.000 It may be technically public.

00:15:14.000 But what happens is experts gather that and present it all to the member of Congress in a way that it's pretty hard for a member of the public to get it.

00:15:21.000 So is it out there?

00:15:22.000 Well, maybe.

00:15:24.000 But has any member of the public served it up on a silver platter and given all of the implications and said, you know, here's what we think is going to happen.

00:15:31.000 Did they have access to these same so-called experts?

00:15:33.000 They really don't.

00:15:34.000 So insider trading is pretty tough to prove.

00:15:37.000 And that's why I say, listen, let's just cut the Gordian knot here.

00:15:40.000 Let's end this appearance that members of Congress are getting specialized information.

00:15:45.000 I mean, that's not an appearance, that's facts.

00:15:47.000 And then going out and trading on it, let's just put a stop totally agree.

00:15:51.000 No stock trading.

00:15:52.000 And, Senator, but it's even worse than that because then there are people that then advocate for pieces of legislation that then help their portfolio.

00:16:01.000 So, for example, it just so happens Nancy Pelosi bought Tesla stock while simultaneously advocating for the infrastructure bill that heavily subsidized electric vehicles.

00:16:13.000 So, that's not even necessarily add that that's not trading on non-public information.

00:16:18.000 That's trying to steer the public treasury to benefit your personal portfolio.

00:16:23.000 And this happens a lot, Charlie.

00:16:24.000 And this is another reason.

00:16:26.000 It's the conflict of interest.

00:16:27.000 It's another reason why members shouldn't own individual stocks.

00:16:30.000 And by the way, just in case people are saying, oh, well, what about you, Josh?

00:16:33.000 My wife and I made the decision before we even got elected to the Senate when I first ran.

00:16:37.000 We just said, you know what, we're going to put all of our savings for our kids' college and for our retirement.

00:16:41.000 We're just going to put them into broad-based mutual funds.

00:16:43.000 I mean, for this reason, so there'll be no appearance of conflict.

00:16:46.000 And so we won't ever have anybody come to me and say, well, what about this piece of information or that?

00:16:51.000 Like, no, Let's just, let's, let's sell all of the stock and let's just put it in mutual funds.

00:16:56.000 And that's what everybody should do and be required to do by law in order to avoid conflicts of interest so that no member is ever tempted to think like, oh, well, I have a lot of money in this particular industry.

00:17:08.000 It sure would be good for this industry if I supported this bill.

00:17:11.000 Let's just take that off the table.

00:17:12.000 If you have broad-based mutual funds, you're not going to be concerned because by definition, you don't have any holding big enough in any one industry or any one company to have it have an effect.

00:17:22.000 You know, that's why that's the value of a broad-based mutual fund.

00:17:25.000 Let's do that and take away the conflict of interest.

00:17:28.000 Senator, thank you for your courage in the Senate for picking the tough fights and winning.

00:17:32.000 I believe you are in cycle this election season.

00:17:36.000 Is that right?

00:17:38.000 Yeah, 2024.

00:17:40.000 You bet.

00:17:40.000 I haven't gotten the chance to stand for re-election already.

00:17:42.000 Yeah, tell me about it.

00:17:43.000 Yeah.

00:17:44.000 So I hope the voters of Missouri will allow me to continue to serve them in the Senate.

00:17:49.000 And I look forward to it.

00:17:50.000 They will.

00:17:51.000 And we're going to be behind you, Senator, and make sure that you are well supported and you have a good platform to share your message because you've been fighting for all of us.

00:17:58.000 Senator, thank you so much.

00:18:00.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:18:03.000 Hey, everybody, Charlie Kirk here.

00:18:04.000 Sometimes it feels like the world is being held together by duct tape and one more little push could bring the whole thing down.

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00:19:06.000 Beethoven's Fifth, one of the greatest pieces of classical music ever composed.

00:19:12.000 Yesterday, we were talking and having a dialogue with Heather McDonald.

00:19:18.000 And I closed the interview by saying, show me anything the third world that the third world has produced that is nearly as beautiful as Beethoven's Fifth.

00:19:28.000 And obviously, the apparatchiks in the media didn't like that because you're not allowed to say that certain cultures are better than others.

00:19:35.000 Now, all human beings are made equal.

00:19:37.000 All human beings are the same thing.

00:19:39.000 We're the speaking beings.

00:19:40.000 We have souls.

00:19:41.000 We are made in the image of God, but not every culture is equal, period. 0.95

00:19:44.000 Some cultures are better than others. 0.93

00:19:46.000 The culture that gave us Beethoven, we should probably understand why you were able to get that incredible amount and mark of brilliance.

00:19:56.000 And obviously, the third world has produced many beautiful things, just nothing close to Beethoven, especially in the music realm.

00:20:04.000 Nothing close to Shakespeare, nothing close to the great works that have built the basis of the West.

00:20:10.000 So, why is it that we should appreciate Beethoven?

00:20:12.000 He's going to teach our children this.

00:20:14.000 And do I absolutely believe that Beethoven and his Fifth Symphony and his works, and not just Beethoven, but the canon of classical music, Mozart, the Bach, but in particular, Beethoven.

00:20:28.000 Of course, I believe it.

00:20:30.000 Look, this is not something that I just pulled out of nowhere.

00:20:32.000 Beethoven is probably the single most important figure in the history of music, period.

00:20:36.000 He basically created the modern symphony: the instruments that are used, how they're structured, and how ambitious they can be.

00:20:45.000 Before Beethoven, composers might write a couple dozen symphonies.

00:20:49.000 After Beethoven, even excellent composers would just write a handful in their entire lives because Beethoven upped the game so much.

00:20:57.000 It was like everyone else was doing drawings in crayon, and Beethoven then invented painting.

00:21:03.000 Now, everyone has known this from Beethoven's life to today.

00:21:07.000 Franz Schubert, or Schubert, himself, one of the greatest composers ever, said after hearing a Beethoven quartet, quote, after this, what else is there left for us to write?

00:21:17.000 Or after this, what left is there for us to write?

00:21:20.000 When Beethoven was first performed in America, he was declared an equal of Shakespeare, and his popularity has never declined.

00:21:28.000 According to music professor Michael Broils of Florida State, Beethoven single-handedly made Americans see classical music as something possessing moral and spiritual value, not just aesthetic value.

00:21:41.000 Music is the literature of the soul.

00:21:43.000 It commences where speech dies.

00:21:46.000 Alphonse de Lamatine.

00:21:48.000 Did I say that?

00:21:49.000 Okay, I think it was actually pretty close.

00:21:51.000 Points for trying, said that.

00:21:53.000 And look, Beethoven is not just a good musician.

00:21:56.000 He's one of the towering geniuses of civilization.

00:22:00.000 So why does this matter?

00:22:01.000 I mean, I just said this is kind of a flippant comment, but I didn't, I meant it deeply.

00:22:06.000 It matters because as we're trying to save Western civilization, we should appreciate the giants, the legends, the titans that have produced art, art which is the celebration of the divine that transcends our existence.

00:22:21.000 And boy, did Beethoven do a good job of that.

00:22:24.000 You see, in the modern era, we're supposed to believe that all art is equal.

00:22:29.000 This is one of the fallacies of postmodernism.

00:22:33.000 For example, they put a crucifix in a jar of urine and they call it the piss Christ, and that's supposed to be art.

00:22:42.000 Or they sign a urnal.

00:22:45.000 Blake would know the name of this.

00:22:46.000 What was his name?

00:22:47.000 It was Duchamp or something in the 1920s.

00:22:50.000 I can never remember his name. 0.72

00:22:52.000 He was one of the first postmodern defecators.

00:22:55.000 Thank you.

00:22:56.000 Marcel Duchamp.

00:22:57.000 I wasn't that far off.

00:22:58.000 That's right.

00:22:58.000 And he famously, of course, in France, signed a urnal and he said, this is art.

00:23:05.000 And people said, wow, that's so amazing.

00:23:07.000 That's beautiful.

00:23:08.000 No, it's not. 1.00

00:23:08.000 It's trash. 1.00

00:23:09.000 It's defecation. 0.99

00:23:10.000 Art used to glorify the divine, literally.

00:23:15.000 I'm not sure if Beethoven did this, but I do know for certain Bach and Mozart did, is they used to write in Latin, glory be to God, on the top of all of their music.

00:23:24.000 And yeah, that's what passes as art.

00:23:26.000 I think in the 1920s or 1930s, well, that was the beginning of the end.

00:23:29.000 And have you noticed how ugly our society has become?

00:23:33.000 Have you noticed that we are an increasingly ugly architecture, ugly paintings, ugly drawings, ugly statues?

00:23:43.000 1917, thank you.

00:23:44.000 I was off a little bit.

00:23:46.000 And so, when you say something as clear as Beethoven's music is better than anything the third world has produced, the left has to lose their mind because for them, they do not believe in a hierarchy of culture. 0.92

00:23:58.000 No culture could be better than the other.

00:24:00.000 And actually, we should defend Western culture.

00:24:03.000 We should defend the culture that protects children from predators, defend cultures that understand God-granted natural rights, that appreciate the moral premise behind separation of powers or consent of the governed.

00:24:15.000 We should appreciate the idea of private property and commerce and free enterprise.

00:24:20.000 And here's the proof.

00:24:22.000 When the Tokyo Philharmonic performs, they are playing Beethoven.

00:24:30.000 When the Manila Philharmonic performs, they're playing Beethoven.

00:24:34.000 Some music is better than others.

00:24:38.000 There is not this vast egalitarianism that the left wishes to impose on us.

00:24:44.000 And so, I just wanted to make sure we're defending the inheritance that we have received.

00:24:50.000 And boy, if we do not take pause every so often to do that, I'm afraid we'll squander it.

00:24:55.000 We're getting a lot of emails on the Beethoven topic.

00:24:57.000 Someone says, Charlie, where can I read more about this?

00:24:59.000 There's a fabulous author.

00:25:00.000 He's passed away.

00:25:01.000 Roger Scruton is one of the most articulate, talented, wise, accomplished writers in recent memory that really understood the Western canon and made very clear arguments about how our society was becoming uglier for consumerism and was really turning its back on this idea of glorifying the divine, the truth, the goodness, and beautiful.

00:25:21.000 Okay, let's get into this topic that I introduced briefly yesterday.

00:25:26.000 Lindsey Graham endorsed Donald Trump this last weekend.

00:25:30.000 As someone who enthusiastically supports Donald Trump in 2024 for 2024, this makes me concerned.

00:25:39.000 And I'm curious how you feel about it.

00:25:42.000 Lindsey Graham, who seems to want perpetual war in Ukraine, who said last week, flanked by two of the most liberal senators in the U.S. Senate, that we're going to play offense in Ukraine.

00:25:58.000 He was John McCain's best buddy.

00:26:00.000 This is Lindsey Graham endorsing Donald Trump play cut 18 this last weekend.

00:26:07.000 There's one thing I want to talk to you about.

00:26:12.000 How many times have you heard we like Trump policies, but we want somebody new?

00:26:20.000 There are no Trump policies without Donald Trump.

00:26:25.000 Now, did you hear a little bit of that heckling at the beginning?

00:26:28.000 This is the buried lead that no one talked about.

00:26:30.000 These are Donald Trump supporters in this small room heckling Lindsey Graham, calling him a rhino, saying, get off stage, you're a rhino, you're a moderate.

00:26:40.000 The media didn't really cover that.

00:26:43.000 Lindsey Graham continues, play cut 46.

00:26:46.000 But I do know this.

00:26:47.000 We're lucky as a party to have Mike Pompeo, who was a terrific Secretary of State.

00:26:52.000 Nikki Haley, a strong voice in the UN for American First Agenda, my buddy and Love Tim Scott, all talking about running for president.

00:27:01.000 Here's why I'm with Trump.

00:27:03.000 I know the downside of Trump, but let me tell you about the upside of Trump.

00:27:08.000 There are no Trump policies without Donald Trump.

00:27:11.000 You know why NATO gave $431 billion in defense spending increases?

00:27:16.000 Because they thought that Trump really meant it when he said he was going to pull out.

00:27:20.000 So I see it both ways.

00:27:22.000 If you're running for president and you're going to have a highly consequential South Carolina primary and Nikki Haley's probably running, you probably want to get more people, not less people, to endorse your campaign.

00:27:32.000 I do understand that.

00:27:34.000 At the same time, has Lindsey Graham been consistent to the Trump agenda?

00:27:43.000 Has Lindsey Graham been a fighter to secure the southern border? 0.95

00:27:47.000 Has Lindsey Graham been a fighter to try to bring American manufacturing back domestically? 0.91

00:27:53.000 Has Lindsey Graham had a heart and a passion for de-escalating foreign quagmires and wars?

00:28:00.000 Has that been the track record of Lindsey Graham?

00:28:04.000 I'm a little concerned that Lindsey Graham entering into the Trump campaign orbit this early might actually defang the populist nationalist impulses that Donald Trump, who we all love and adore, naturally has.

00:28:24.000 Now, maybe that's incorrect.

00:28:25.000 Maybe you say, Charlie, come on, this is good for Trump.

00:28:28.000 It's good for him to be on the stage with Lindsey Graham.

00:28:30.000 We should have Lindsey Graham involved.

00:28:32.000 You might be right.

00:28:33.000 But it does make me pause and be concerned that if President Trump is going to be at least giving a platform to the foreign policy views of Lindsey Graham, I don't think that's where his base is at, especially based on the emails I received on Ukraine earlier.

00:28:51.000 I'd love your thoughts on that, especially many of you who are Donald Trump supporters.

00:28:55.000 Freedom at CharlieKirk.com.

00:28:57.000 Does this bother you?

00:28:58.000 Does this worry you?

00:28:59.000 Or do you think this is a good thing?

00:29:00.000 Donald Trump is increasing his support.

00:29:02.000 He needs it.

00:29:03.000 He knows what he's doing.

00:29:04.000 Or are you worried that this might be another character in the never-ending chapter of people you should not trust that get too close to Donald Trump's orbit?

00:29:19.000 What I would have loved to have seen President Trump do this last weekend when he had Lindsey Graham in South Carolina, say, yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks, Lindsey, for the endorsement.

00:29:27.000 But boy, you like to start wars.

00:29:29.000 And when I'm president, we're not going to be doing that.

00:29:31.000 Just a little bit of a sharp.

00:29:32.000 He does that stuff all the time.

00:29:35.000 I mean, but look, remember Gary Cohn?

00:29:37.000 Remember all these guys that were working against Trump's agenda in the White House time and time again.

00:29:42.000 I don't want to see a 2.0 of that.

00:29:44.000 Here's Lindsey Graham, fresh off the trail. 0.70

00:29:47.000 He's in the most important constituency.

00:29:49.000 Lindsey Graham is serving his constituents.

00:29:53.000 He's right where he needs to be.

00:29:54.000 No, no, no.

00:29:55.000 It's not the meth clinics in South Carolina.

00:29:59.000 It's not the homeless in Charleston, South Carolina.

00:30:02.000 It's not the fact that kids are killing themselves at record rates.

00:30:05.000 No, no, no.

00:30:06.000 His constituents in Ukraine, specifically the Ukrainian government, they're thrilled that he made the trip.

00:30:12.000 Play Cut 48 of Lindsey Graham, next to the two most liberal senators that you could find in the U.S. Senate, talking about how we need to drive those Russians out of Ukraine. 0.73

00:30:20.000 Play Cut 48.

00:30:22.000 Kevin McCarthy said no blank checks.

00:30:25.000 That makes sense to me.

00:30:26.000 We're not asking for a blank check.

00:30:29.000 I'm not.

00:30:29.000 I'm asking for military aid to accomplish the purpose of driving Russian invaders out of Ukraine.

00:30:37.000 If Putin gets away with this, there goes Taiwan.

00:30:41.000 If Putin's successful in Ukraine is not prosecuted under international law, everything we said since World War II becomes a joke.

00:30:50.000 He will continue beyond Ukraine.

00:30:54.000 Why do you keep on talking to Sheldon White?

00:30:56.000 I mean, he's like turning 180 and panting to Sheldon White House.

00:30:58.000 It's very bizarre.

00:30:59.000 Someone says, Charlie, it did work, actually, Donald Trump having those snakes around him, let them expose themselves.

00:31:07.000 I'm going to disagree.

00:31:08.000 I don't think having Anthony Fauci on the COVID tax force was a success.

00:31:13.000 I don't.

00:31:14.000 I do not think having the scarf woman, Dr. Deborah Burks, was a success. 1.00

00:31:19.000 I don't.

00:31:19.000 I don't think that I think you could learn a lot from how personnel is policy and how, especially with COVID, that's not exactly a shining success.

00:31:32.000 Someone says here, Charlie, I actually love Lindsey Graham.

00:31:35.000 He's a true conservative, and I'm really glad to see Donald Trump finally having true conservatives around him.

00:31:41.000 That is a strange opinion.

00:31:43.000 Here we have Charlie, Lindsey Graham is using Trump once again for votes in his next election.

00:31:50.000 Why don't people see this?

00:31:52.000 Good question.

00:31:54.000 Charlie, I think Trump knows he needs some of the Rhino support too. 1.00

00:31:56.000 Remember just a little ago that DeSantis had an event and in the crowd was none other than Jeb Bush.

00:32:01.000 Well, it was his inauguration.

00:32:02.000 And that's a little more complicated because former governors usually go to inaugurations, but point taken.

00:32:06.000 I think Trump fears this, and that is why you're seeing him make deals with rhinos, Graham and Ronna Romney. 0.51

00:32:14.000 You know, that's interesting too, isn't it?

00:32:15.000 Because you have the kind of Trump dispatching surrogates and lieutenants to support Ronna Romney and then increasing support in that way.

00:32:28.000 You got to.

00:32:29.000 I would have loved to have seen Donald Trump said, Lindsey, I don't need your endorsement.

00:32:35.000 But maybe the path that needs to happen here is you need more of that support.

00:32:42.000 All right, let's take a caller really quick.

00:32:44.000 Tony, on Lindsey Graham, what's on your mind? 0.82

00:32:47.000 Do you like the fact Lindsey Graham is palling around with Donald Trump?

00:32:49.000 What's your thoughts?

00:32:50.000 I can't stand it.

00:32:53.000 This disgusts me with Ronna Romney, and I will never give a penny to the Republican National Committee.

00:32:59.000 It's hard to believe that President Trump is supporting these rhinos, but unfortunately, they're in power, and at some point you have to utilize them for what you can get out of them and disregard them when you actually get back in.

00:33:17.000 Is your support for Trump changing or constant or questioned because of this?

00:33:23.000 No, I support him 100% because he's gone through the fire.

00:33:26.000 He stands up for us, and I just hope he makes better decisions in positions of power.

00:33:33.000 You and I are both supporting the same man.

00:33:35.000 Thank you for your call, Tony.

00:33:36.000 God bless you.

00:33:36.000 Thank you.

00:33:37.000 Email me your thoughts, freedom, at charliekirk.com.

00:33:39.000 I'm curious.

00:33:41.000 This is a serious conversation that we're having here of who should President Trump surround himself with.

00:33:47.000 And I understand a counterargument.

00:33:48.000 Hey, he needs more support, not less support.

00:33:50.000 Shouldn't you increase your ranks, not decrease your ranks?

00:33:53.000 I think that's an interesting argument.

00:33:57.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:33:58.000 Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:34:01.000 Thank you so much for listening, and God bless.

00:34:06.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - January 31, 2023

Beethoven is Better with Senator Josh Hawley

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