The Charlie Kirk Show - Ben Shapiro on George Floyd, Israel, and Gen Z

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here, live from the Bitcoin.com studio.

00:00:04.000 Van Jones attacks me, I respond, and Tim Kane says one of the darkest, most chilling things that I've ever heard a senator say.

00:00:09.000 And then Ben Shapiro joins the show.

00:00:11.000 We talk about George Floyd Israel and his latest book, Lions and Scavengers.

00:00:14.000 Email us as always, freedom at Charlie Kirk.com and subscribe to our podcast.

00:00:19.000 That is the Charlie Kirk Show podcast page and get involved today at turning point USA at TPUSA.com.

00:00:25.000 That is TP USA.com.

00:00:27.000 Buckle up everybody here, we go.

00:00:28.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:30.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses.

00:00:32.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:36.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:39.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:40.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:41.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:00:43.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, turning point USA.

00:00:50.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are gonna fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:00:58.000 That's why we are here.

00:00:59.000 The Charlie Kirk Show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.

00:01:12.000 Twenty-million dollars for many period thousands of years.

00:01:13.000 you When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another.

00:01:22.000 And to assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal station which the laws of nature and nature's God entitle them.

00:01:29.000 A decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to separation.

00:01:36.000 We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

00:01:51.000 That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

00:01:58.000 That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it and to institute a new government, laying its foundation on such principles, organizing its powers in such form as them shall seem most likely to affect their safety and happiness.

00:02:17.000 That is the beginning of our birth certificate.

00:02:19.000 That is our birthday, July 4th, 1776.

00:02:23.000 That is the Declaration of Independence.

00:02:25.000 Now you read this, articulated by Thomas Jefferson and the American founders, is a theory and an understanding of natural rights in government.

00:02:37.000 This is very simple elementary stuff.

00:02:40.000 Said differently, our rights come from God, not from government.

00:02:46.000 It makes our country unique.

00:02:48.000 What are natural rights?

00:02:49.000 Natural rights are basic freedoms we are born with because we are human.

00:02:54.000 The first of which is life, then liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

00:02:58.000 You do not earn them, and no government gives them to you.

00:03:02.000 They are built in.

00:03:04.000 Where do they come from?

00:03:05.000 They come from God or at the very least from nature's law.

00:03:10.000 Government does not make them.

00:03:11.000 They can only respect them or violate them.

00:03:14.000 Let me say that again.

00:03:14.000 Government does not make your rights.

00:03:16.000 Government can only respect them or violate them.

00:03:20.000 This is pretty non-controversial stuff, right?

00:03:22.000 Now I was in Asia last week.

00:03:24.000 I was in South Korea and Japan, and I saw this story, and I made a note to myself.

00:03:28.000 I gotta talk about it next week.

00:03:29.000 And yesterday was such a busy news day that we didn't have an opportunity to cover it.

00:03:33.000 It is without a doubt one of the darkest, most chilling things I have heard a U.S. Senator say.

00:03:39.000 And I we've heard some beauties. 0.96

00:03:41.000 This is not just some sort of local college campus studio.

00:03:44.000 No, people say all the time, Charlie, why do you debate these college kids all the time?

00:03:47.000 First of all, they're adults, they're voters, it's seen by millions of people.

00:03:51.000 All that.

00:03:52.000 But hold on.

00:03:54.000 This is a U.S. senator that does not know as much as some of the college students that I will be dialoguing with tomorrow at Utah Valley University in Utah.

00:04:04.000 This is Senator Tim Kane.

00:04:07.000 In one of the darkest pieces of tape that you will find.

00:04:11.000 This is a U.S. senator who went to Harvard.

00:04:13.000 So when I say that college is a scam, this is exhibit A. He went to Harvard with a JD.

00:04:20.000 Literally.

00:04:23.000 He has a JD from Harvard.

00:04:25.000 Tim Kane is talking to Bobby Kennedy about some health thing.

00:04:30.000 Some H that whole hearing was a drive-by shooting that the Democrats tried to do against, try to do against Bobby Kennedy.

00:04:39.000 And the U.S. Senator who supposedly pretends to be a devout Catholic.

00:04:44.000 So we're talking about where do rights come from.

00:04:47.000 This is fundamental.

00:04:50.000 What Tim Kane has said, I hear often from a lot of these campus activists.

00:04:55.000 You have to wonder how many Democrats also believe this.

00:04:59.000 Everybody, what you're about to listen to is exhibit A of evidence that the Democrat Party represents a country not called America.

00:05:08.000 The Democrat Party, they believe in a country that is not this country.

00:05:13.000 Tim Kane, what he says here, if what he says is true, then what we are is no different than China.

00:05:23.000 If what he says is true, we are no different than North Korean. 0.70

00:05:26.000 Chinese people have rights, they are just granted or denied by their government.

00:05:31.000 We are leading with this today because this is without a doubt one of the most important chilling clips ever.

00:05:37.000 And it's not even about a making fun of him.

00:05:39.000 This shows that we are up against an existential parasitic force that does not even share our simple birth certificate.

00:05:48.000 They have a different birth certificate for America, and it's not the Declaration of Independence.

00:05:52.000 Here is Tim Kane.

00:05:54.000 Play cut 342.

00:05:56.000 The notion that rights don't come from laws and don't come from the government, but come from the creator.

00:06:03.000 That's what the Iranian government believes.

00:06:05.000 It's a theocratic regime that bases its rule on Shia law and targets Sunnis, Baha'is, Jews, Christians, and other religious minorities.

00:06:17.000 And they do it because they believe that they understand what natural rights are from their creator.

00:06:23.000 So the statement that our rights do not come from our laws or our governments is extremely troubling.

00:06:31.000 Woo.

00:06:33.000 He believes the government gives you rights, that laws give you rights.

00:06:38.000 That's why he's okay with aborting babies.

00:06:42.000 Because those humans have no rights because the government hasn't given those rights to him.

00:06:47.000 That's that's why he's fine with mutilating kids in trans surgeries, because those kids have no rights because the government hasn't given those rights. 0.92

00:06:55.000 Yeah, he's fine with potentially gulags because the government, there's nothing wrong with mass murdering people in gulags because the government didn't give those rights to them.

00:07:02.000 The government decided not to give them those rights.

00:07:04.000 And someone should ask Tim Kane.

00:07:07.000 Tim Kane, we're not even going to use the Holocaust example, because that one is overused.

00:07:12.000 Was Mao wrong to mass murder millions of people?

00:07:16.000 government decided not to give those people rights.

00:07:19.000 We believe in something transcendent above government that government appeals towards.

00:07:26.000 Government's job is to protect our unalienable rights that we were born with, that every human being is born with.

00:07:33.000 Our rights coming from God makes them inalienable because they are rooted in the equal God-given dignity shared by all human This is an inarguable spiritual element to our nation. 0.99

00:07:46.000 Some people say, oh, Tim Kane is kind of dumb. 0.99

00:07:49.000 Obviously, he is. 0.99

00:07:50.000 He went to Harvard, but that means absolutely nothing.

00:07:53.000 But it's worse than that.

00:07:54.000 He didn't come up with this.

00:07:55.000 He is simply a mockingbird parroting something that is infected the Democrat Party.

00:08:00.000 They don't think we have an alienable rights.

00:08:02.000 They think there's nothing special about being a human being.

00:08:04.000 If rights come from the government, the government can take them away whenever they want.

00:08:08.000 They can take away your right to speech, and yes, your right to life.

00:08:12.000 They can drone strike you whenever you want.

00:08:15.000 This is why America is unique.

00:08:17.000 Let me repeat again.

00:08:18.000 All men are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.

00:08:24.000 This is why we are a refuge for liberty.

00:08:26.000 The founders tied our freedom to something higher than politics.

00:08:31.000 Tim Kane acts as if our rights are like a driver's license.

00:08:38.000 Driver's licenses can be given, suspended, or revoked.

00:08:42.000 That's what government-given rights look like.

00:08:44.000 Government given rights are like driver's licenses.

00:08:48.000 We believe that natural rights are your birthright.

00:08:52.000 You don't apply for them.

00:08:54.000 They're yours by birth.

00:08:55.000 It's because you're human.

00:08:58.000 If Tim Kane is, if Tim Kane is right, Stalin was justified, Hitler was justified, Mao is justified. 0.84

00:09:04.000 Maduro is justified.

00:09:06.000 Rights aren't favors from politicians.

00:09:10.000 Government does not give you freedom.

00:09:12.000 It protects the freedom you already have because you are a human being made in the image of God, and the natural law dictates that.

00:09:20.000 If government can give them to you, could take them away, that's not freedom.

00:09:24.000 These are not privileges.

00:09:25.000 These are not preferences.

00:09:27.000 There's something special about being a human being.

00:09:29.000 And that is not just some local yokel.

00:09:31.000 That's not just some sort of person college campus.

00:09:33.000 That is a U.S. senator who almost became vice president of the United States in 2016. 0.98

00:09:39.000 That yammering fool was inches away. 0.96

00:09:43.000 He was 40,000 votes away from becoming the vice president of the United States under Hillary Clinton. 0.98

00:09:49.000 So this is an existential issue and a little window into what we're fighting against.

00:09:55.000 This is more than just a difference of opinion.

00:09:59.000 It's of a difference of birthright.

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00:11:03.000 I mean, we commonly say, praise God, President Trump prevented Hillary Clinton from becoming president, but praise God he prevented Tim Kane from becoming vice president.

00:11:12.000 And that alone, he should just have a permanent place in our hearts as doing a phenomenal contribution to American society.

00:11:19.000 We all dodged a bullet.

00:11:21.000 And I guarantee you, I mean, he said out loud because he's some staffer gave it to him, but I guarantee you Kamala Harris believes this.

00:11:27.000 They do not believe in the natural rights theory of government, which is self-evident.

00:11:32.000 As soon as you believe there's a natural law, of which there is, that normativity is woven into nature, that there is a natural being to our existence and physics and math and morality and thermodynamics, whatever.

00:11:45.000 You look as if there is a law in nature, then immediately you can say, then who is the law giver?

00:11:51.000 Once you admit there is a natural law, there's a law giver, and that is why Thomas Jefferson said the laws of nature and nature is God.

00:11:58.000 That is in the declaration.

00:12:01.000 The importance of natural rights is it makes your rights eternal and transcendent, and nobody can ever take those rights justly away from you.

00:12:09.000 It's a big deal when you think about it.

00:12:11.000 Email us as always, freedom at Charliekirk.com.

00:12:14.000 So last night on CNN, the only time I've ever watched CNN is when they mentioned me or Scott Jennings.

00:12:19.000 Own somebody.

00:12:20.000 So Van Jones, who's actually a very pleasant person, he's actually the nicest communist ever met in my life, and he's very sweet.

00:12:26.000 I met him uh during one of my things I shouldn't have been doing, which was advocating for prison reform.

00:12:32.000 It's I'm I'm atoning for my sins, everybody.

00:12:34.000 Okay.

00:12:35.000 Anyway, so so Van Jones was talking about me, and there's so much, there's so many lies involved in what he said here.

00:12:42.000 First of all, I never said the first element what he said.

00:12:45.000 I did say the second part, but this is a very important thing to focus on.

00:12:48.000 So Van Jones is saying I should be ashamed of myself.

00:12:52.000 And just reminder, the murder of Arena Zarutska, did you know that the attacker said, quote, I got that white girl?

00:13:00.000 The attacker racialized this, just for the record.

00:13:03.000 Now, mind you, do you notice that the media all of a sudden tries to play the moral high ground when we start to try to make them live up to the standard that they created and the construct that they forced and the paradigm that they constituted under George Floyd, the moment that we make them have to live up to their own standard, they start to cry foul.

00:13:23.000 As soon as we start to make them live up to the George Floyd standard, oh, what is Charlie Kirk racializing this?

00:13:28.000 And by the way, Van Jones also has a major lie embedded into this whole thing.

00:13:35.000 Listen carefully, race hustler, Marxist, Van Jones.

00:13:38.000 By the way, Van, you're welcome on my program. 0.56

00:13:40.000 I'll treat you well.

00:13:41.000 I will give you an uninterrupted opening statement.

00:13:43.000 Van Jones, if you want to go talk about black crime and urban decay, man, you're always welcome on this program. 1.00

00:13:49.000 Because even though, quote unquote, you're an expert in race hustling, I've been around the block a couple times.

00:13:54.000 I I know your tricks and they don't work here.

00:13:58.000 Your magical spells don't work here. 1.00

00:14:00.000 Your little hocus pocus, you are racist. 0.99

00:14:03.000 Doesn't work here. 0.99

00:14:04.000 We got holy water here.

00:14:05.000 Play cut 351.

00:14:06.000 For Charlie Kirk to say we know he did it because she's white when there's no evidence of that.

00:14:12.000 It's just pure race uh race mongering, hate mongering.

00:14:15.000 It's wrong.

00:14:16.000 Then he says that if something like that had happened the other way, there would be sweeping changes imposed on society.

00:14:23.000 Where is the George Floyd policing act?

00:14:25.000 It didn't pass.

00:14:27.000 Even when you had a white police officer murder a black man on live television, the whole world saw there were no sleeping changes.

00:14:34.000 In fact, not one law was passed at the federal level.

00:14:37.000 That we don't know how to deal with people who were hurting in the way this man was hurting.

00:14:41.000 Hurt people, hurt people.

00:14:42.000 What happened was horrible.

00:14:43.000 Someone like Charlie Kirk, he should be ashamed of himself.

00:14:46.000 No one mentioned the word race, white, black, or anything except him.

00:14:50.000 Okay, so there's a lot.

00:14:52.000 There's a lot there.

00:14:53.000 First of all, when Keith Ellison, the attorney general of Minnesota, was asked repeatedly by the media, was there racial animus involved in Derek Chauvin's actions against George Floyd?

00:15:04.000 He said no, and they dodged the question.

00:15:06.000 Do you know that there is no evidence that Derek Chauvin acted racially?

00:15:09.000 If you think Derek Chauvin acted racially, then you're a racist and parting racial type fantasies and mythologies into a situation of which it does not exist.

00:15:17.000 And by the way, just if you're taking notes, media matters, George Floyd overdosed, okay?

00:15:21.000 You can write that down, take to the bank.

00:15:23.000 In fact, we have Ben Shapiro coming up next segment, of which I'm going to have him remind us of all the facts.

00:15:28.000 Anyway, that's not what it's even about.

00:15:30.000 Here is the tweet that I sent out.

00:15:32.000 Quote, if a random white person simply walked up to and stabbed a nice law-abiding black person for no reason, it would be an apocalyptically huge national story used to impose national sweeping political changes on the whole country.

00:15:45.000 Of course, this is true.

00:15:46.000 Everybody knows this is true.

00:15:48.000 Our media thirsts for stories like this. 0.97

00:15:50.000 I want you to imagine if a white guy sitting on a bus and a black woman just on her phone, all of a sudden the white guy took out a knife and just stabbed her in the neck repeatedly. 0.59

00:16:00.000 How do you think our media would react? 0.93

00:16:02.000 We would have protests.

00:16:03.000 Wendy's would have point.

00:16:05.000 I'll tell you right now, there would be a hundred burned Wendys around the world. 0.97

00:16:09.000 I mean, in every city.

00:16:11.000 I mean, it would be so on top, they'd start burning the Denny's. 0.97

00:16:15.000 They use Emmett Till 70 years later because of this, because it's a case of a horrifying murder of an innocent black person by hateful whites.

00:16:23.000 It's so rare they had to go back 70 years, but you know what?

00:16:26.000 When a white person is murdered, we don't burn down the country.

00:16:30.000 But when George Floyd overdosed on drugs, it's Floyd of Palooza.

00:16:35.000 But for the opposite, we have to go back one day.

00:16:37.000 Literally, there was another, you know, several happened this last week.

00:16:41.000 Another white girl was just murdered by a black person in Alabama, a woman butchered walking her dog.

00:16:48.000 There was also one that happened in South Carolina and one that happened in Virginia. 0.99

00:16:51.000 That is four white women in the American South that just recently were butchered by black criminals. 0.94

00:16:58.000 So we take a step back and say, well, what's really going on here?

00:17:01.000 What's really going on here is a situation where Van Jones is acting like if I said something I did not say, when in reality, we're asking a very simple question, Mr. Jones.

00:17:12.000 Very simple question, which is will you apologize for all the criminal justice reform that you pushed forward that allowed these 14-time criminal offenders to walk the streets?

00:17:23.000 Because you are the architect and the designer of constantly feeling bad for the criminal that then can kill more people like Irina Zarutsky.

00:17:31.000 And by the way, I did not bring up race.

00:17:33.000 The attacker said, quote, I got that white girl, end quote. 0.96

00:17:37.000 People say, why does the race matter?

00:17:39.000 Oh, it matters because you made us care about race in the summer of 2020.

00:17:42.000 Looks like you got it live up to the book of your own rules. 0.99

00:17:45.000 The second that we make you live up to your ridiculous paradigm, you collapse like a house of cards. 0.98

00:17:52.000 Gentlemen, let's get real for a second. 0.98

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00:19:08.000 Joining us now is a good friend, Ben Shapiro, author of Lions and Scavengers.

00:19:15.000 Uh, congratulations, Ben, on the new book, uh, The True Story of America, and we will get to that uh in great detail.

00:19:21.000 I want everyone to check it out.

00:19:22.000 It's Lions and Scavengers. 0.96

00:19:24.000 Uh Ben, I was refuting Mr. Van Jones on a variety of different things because he decided to attack me on CNN.

00:19:30.000 But I want to, you've done some really important work on George Floyd's cause of death.

00:19:34.000 Can you remind the audience what your study and your research showed about George Floyd overdosing on drugs?

00:19:40.000 Sure.

00:19:41.000 I mean, it was basically just the autopsy report.

00:19:42.000 I mean, the autopsy report showed that he had a massively enlarged heart, that he had extraordinary quantities of drugs, including fentanyl in his system, enough fentanyl to kill a normal person multiple times over.

00:19:52.000 The original coroner suggested that if they had found George Floyd dead in his home, they would have assumed that he died of a drug overdose.

00:19:58.000 If you actually watched the tape of the confrontation with the officers, he's saying I can't breathe well before he gets out of the car.

00:20:04.000 In fact, one of the reasons they take him out of the car is he is taken out at his own request.

00:20:09.000 And so, again, the the the medical evidence does not suggest that there's no damage to his trachea, there's no damage to his neck.

00:20:14.000 Uh, the medical evidence does not suggest that he actually died as a result of Derek Chauvin's knee on his neck.

00:20:18.000 It suggests that he died as a result of probably excited delirium, meaning elevated heart rate as a result of both ingesting drugs, in the large heart, and the excitement of being arrested.

00:20:28.000 Well, and on top of that, they also say that this was racially motivated.

00:20:32.000 Is there any evidence at all that there was racial animus in this situation?

00:20:35.000 So Van Jones said it was obviously a racial thing.

00:20:37.000 Hold on.

00:20:38.000 If you're you're actually imparting your own racial stereotypes onto a situation of which even Keith Ellison, the attorney general of Minnesota, rejected the claim that race was involved in this.

00:20:47.000 Is that correct?

00:20:48.000 This is exactly right.

00:20:49.000 I mean, there was a federal civil rights charge that was brought against Derek Chauvin, and it did not even allege that there is a violation of civil rights on the basis of race.

00:20:56.000 So literally no one, not the prosecutor of the state, not the prosecutors federal, no one made the actual legal claim that the actions of Derek Chauvin were rooted in racism.

00:21:04.000 The best available criminal case against Derek Schumann would have been like a low-degree manslaughter case for negligence in his handling of the actual situation.

00:21:12.000 But literally zero evidence was provided to the idea that Derek Chauvin killed George Floyd because George Floyd was black.

00:21:18.000 That just was not inevitable.

00:21:19.000 It wasn't even alleged.

00:21:21.000 So uh and you've done phenomenal work on this, everyone should should check it out.

00:21:24.000 It's really important.

00:21:25.000 Shifting gears here for a second.

00:21:27.000 So we're on team civilization here. 0.97

00:21:28.000 We want to see the maniacs of Hamas be defeated and the barbarians of Islam not be able to storm the gates of the West. 1.00

00:21:37.000 So we've seen um news this morning that quite honestly I'm a little confused by, and I was hoping you could navigate it and help us understand, which is that Israel uh bombed Qatar, which houses a lot of Hamas officials.

00:21:50.000 Uh, what happened here?

00:21:51.000 And if I were to introduce just a skeptical question, will this potentially endanger America's own interests in the Middle East?

00:21:58.000 So please, Ben, help me better understand the situation.

00:22:01.000 Sure.

00:22:01.000 So I think that the lead up to understand here is that Qatar sort of plays both sides when it comes to its negotiating stance between Hamas and Israel and the United States.

00:22:11.000 So it has provided extraordinary material support to Hamas directly.

00:22:14.000 Billions of dollars in material support to Hamas, the leadership of Hamas have been living in Qatar for years at five-star hotels.

00:22:21.000 Hamas's priorities have been pressed by Qatar in negotiations multiple times.

00:22:25.000 Qatar has not put significant pressure on Hamas in the past to release the hostages or to end The war.

00:22:30.000 And so basically, as Israel nears the end of the war, which is what this last movement in Gaza City is supposed to be, that there's a final offer that was put on the table actually by the Trump administration that essentially said that Hamas should release the remaining 48 hostages, meaning 28 dead bodies and 20 alive hostages, and the United States would then guarantee through his own honest brokerage, some sort of end to the war that would result in the disarming of Hamas and the movement of the Gaza Strip to presumably some sort of coalitional government supported by regional states and the rebuilding of the area.

00:22:59.000 And Qatar was pushing Hamas, apparently, we we heard.

00:23:03.000 And Hamas this morning in Arabic actually rejected it.

00:23:06.000 That's not been widely reported by the media, but it's true. 0.99

00:23:08.000 Hamas actually rejected the American offer.

00:23:10.000 president had put out via truth social a statement saying this is your last chance and if you don't do that bad things are going to happen the the idea that that israel would be able to fly 10 f-16s all the way across the middle east to qatar to strike a very specific terror target in doha without american knowledge beggars the imagination it It is extraordinarily unlikely to say the very least.

00:23:30.000 Honestly, it would not be wildly improbable if Qatar knew that that was coming as well.

00:23:35.000 And so Israel struck at the top level of the remaining Hamas in Qatar in an attempt to basically change the negotiating status.

00:23:43.000 So the basic idea here was if you will not negotiate, if you refuse to get to the end of this war, well, then maybe we'll find somebody who can.

00:23:50.000 Or maybe the idea is that you're safe nowhere until this war ends.

00:23:53.000 Additional pressure had to be brought to bear, and that's why Israel did what it did. 0.96

00:23:57.000 Obviously, I as well am on team civilization. 0.95

00:23:59.000 I'm very happy to see Hamas's top leaders killed. 0.75

00:24:02.000 I I hope that that as many of them in the in the leadership with as little loss of civilian life as possible. 0.96

00:24:07.000 I hope that as many of them died in this attack as it's humanly possible.

00:24:10.000 And again, I'd be very surprised.

00:24:11.000 I mean, we do know actually from contemporaneous reporting that the United States was at least given the heads up on the Israeli operation in the moments before it went.

00:24:18.000 I I just spent time in Japan, and one of the things that kind of looms over Japan is that Japan, they engage in an unconditional surrender that they said we're done.

00:24:29.000 And they laid down their arms, obviously after the two atomic bombs, very controversial.

00:24:34.000 People have mixed opinions on it.

00:24:36.000 I certainly do.

00:24:37.000 But that that it is unconditional surrender.

00:24:39.000 Is that what Israel is aiming for here? 0.94

00:24:41.000 I suppose that is a question that I get a lot on campus.

00:24:44.000 What does success look like?

00:24:46.000 Because I think we could all agree a long war is not good for Israel, a long drawn-out war, and we're now ending, we're coming towards two years uh in about a month.

00:24:56.000 So it's been about 23 months.

00:24:59.000 So what does ultimate success look like in the Gaza Strip? 0.61

00:25:03.000 So my main critique of the Netanyahu administration and Israel and Netanyahu government is they didn't move faster.

00:25:08.000 I think this should have been a much more accelerated process.

00:25:11.000 Israel set out at the beginning of this war with two goals, as articulated by the Israeli government.

00:25:15.000 Goal number one was to get as many hostages out as humanly possible to free the hostages, and second was to win the war.

00:25:20.000 In many ways, those are mutually exclusive goals, because if you actually wish to win the war, then you have to do things militarily that are going to involve actual movement on the ground.

00:25:29.000 And meanwhile, Hamas is attempting to basically use the hostages as its own form of human shields.

00:25:35.000 They've used their own civilians as human shields, they're also using the hostages as a form of human shield.

00:25:39.000 And so as you came to the end of the war, this is always going to be the question is how the war kind of came to its final terminus.

00:25:44.000 The priorities that Netanyahu has laid out publicly include essentially basically it's let the hostages out, and there can't be a future military threat to Israel.

00:25:52.000 Those are, if you had to sum it all up, those are the two things.

00:25:54.000 How that materializes, in my opinion, is likely to be an Israeli military occupation of large swaths of the Gaza Strip, the setting up of humanitarian areas, particularly on the coast and in Rafah, in which humanitarian aid is provided, a pathway out for people who actually want to leave.

00:26:08.000 This is the only conflict of which I'm aware on planet Earth, in which there are outside countries telling people who would like to leave that they literally cannot.

00:26:15.000 The Trump administration has been trying to facilitate the ability of people who want to leave to do so and has also been trying to facilitate the entry of not only humanitarian aid, but investment into the areas that have been cleared of terrorists, and then you can see some sort of Hamas free rebuilding. 0.80

00:26:29.000 That would be the goal of the end of the war. 0.94

00:26:31.000 Now, my understanding is that the sort of last untouched area of the Gaza Strip in terms of Israeli's serious military operations is Gaza City.

00:26:39.000 It's why there's been so much focus on Gaza City.

00:26:42.000 Last I heard, Israel already controls something, 40 to 50% of the territory in Gaza City.

00:26:46.000 They've been warning people to get out for at least a couple of weeks now.

00:26:50.000 Hamas has been stopping people at checkpoints and turning them back and shooting them if they don't stay in the city to be used as human shields by Hamas.

00:26:55.000 So that's the current situation on the ground.

00:26:57.000 What other feedback or criticism would you have about this situation?

00:27:02.000 I I know that it's impossible for anyone to listen to everything that you ever say.

00:27:07.000 But looking at this from an American perspective, what else would you say things could have been handled differently?

00:27:14.000 Maybe on the PR front, maybe also just on a conduct front.

00:27:19.000 Where would you say as an outsider things that could have been handled better, um, more efficiently or with more precision?

00:27:27.000 So, number one, there's there's no such thing as a perfect war.

00:27:29.000 So obviously, in any war, there are gonna be things that happen that are ugly and that are terrible, and that is why war is is a terrible thing.

00:27:36.000 As far as a sort of operational front, again, I've spent an awful lot of time in Israel.

00:27:40.000 I've watched tape of operations happening, drone operations.

00:27:43.000 Uh I've met with an enormous number of Israeli soldiers, young men and women, people who are 18, 19, 20 years old, who have had legitimately their limbs blown off, going house to house in an area where they didn't have to.

00:27:53.000 Uh the charge that Israel has been indiscriminate in its use of force in the Gaza Strip is an absurdity on its face.

00:27:58.000 Israel has complete air superiority over the Gaza Strip.

00:28:00.000 If it wanted to level the place and turn it into a parking lot October 8th, it certainly had the military capacity to do so.

00:28:05.000 It has not done that.

00:28:06.000 Instead, it has sacrificed legitimately a thousand of its own young men, particularly in these areas and thousands more who are wounded for the rest of their lives, going house to house in an attempt to prevent all that, and is currently shipping in forty, four hundred calories per day per person into the Gaza Strip, much of which is then stolen by Hamas. 0.75

00:28:23.000 So that that is not to say that anything that any war is perfect.

00:28:26.000 This war has been conducted in about as meticulous way uh as any urban war in history.

00:28:31.000 Just because war is ugly doesn't mean that it's being fought wrongly.

00:28:34.000 And I think that the the main mistake that Israel has made is misunderstanding how how public relations works in the sense that they couldn't have presented this war in a better, kinder way that people would have loved.

00:28:44.000 What they could have done is move faster.

00:28:46.000 And and the reality is that the American way of of doing war is to win as fast as possible.

00:28:51.000 And we don't like long drawn-out occupations.

00:28:53.000 We don't like long drawn-out military operations.

00:28:55.000 That's true in Iraq, it's true in Afghanistan, it's true in Ukraine, it's true in the Gaza Strip.

00:28:59.000 And so the kind of things that that we Americans like to see are, for example, the operations against Hezbollah that took about three weeks to five weeks, or the operation against Iran, which took about 12 days, right?

00:29:10.000 Those are operations that any ally of the United States can sustain.

00:29:13.000 Long operations like the one that Israel has been performing in the Gaza Strip are inherently very, very difficult uh from from PR level.

00:29:20.000 And I'm not sure, to be frank, that there is a way for Israel to quote unquote win the PR war in the middle of a very long war against an intransigent terrorist enemy that legitimately embeds itself in in the most damaging places.

00:29:30.000 Aaron Powell A claim I receive often, and we're starting our campus tour tomorrow is that Israel is committing genocide.

00:29:36.000 How do you respond to that then?

00:29:38.000 There there is literally no definition of genocide by which Israel is committing a genocide.

00:29:42.000 Typically a genocide involves the the targeted killing of the vast majority of the population, or at least an attempt to do so.

00:29:49.000 That there has never been a genocide attempted in world history in which the food that was being shipped in was more than the daily caloric intake of the average American into the areas where you're supposedly attempting to genocide the population.

00:30:03.000 The total population loss in the Gaza Strip thus far has been three percent.

00:30:06.000 During the Holocaust, just to take a reference, it was fifty percent. 0.66

00:30:09.000 During Rwanda, it was significantly higher than three percent.

00:30:12.000 You don't issue leaflet warnings to people.

00:30:14.000 You don't go house to house in a genocide in an attempt to reduce civilian casualties.

00:30:18.000 I I understand that people use genocide at this point to just mean thing I don't like.

00:30:22.000 And I get that.

00:30:23.000 I understand.

00:30:23.000 No nobody likes war.

00:30:24.000 Nobody wants war.

00:30:26.000 Certainly not the Israelis were not at war on October 6th. 0.99

00:30:29.000 Uh the the fact is that that every Israeli family has to send their 18-year-old son or daughter off to the military with the possibility that they're going to get blown up in Gaza.

00:30:38.000 That is not something that any Israeli wants, right, left, or center.

00:30:41.000 The the real question is whether the accusations are accurate.

00:30:44.000 They they certainly are not, again, by any stretch of the imagination.

00:30:47.000 Author uh Bet Ben Shvure author of uh Lions and Scavengers, we're gonna get to that in a second.

00:30:52.000 I have one or two other questions on Israel.

00:30:53.000 I think it's very important for our audience to hear this, though, because there is a an incessant campaign.

00:31:00.000 Um one thing a friend send to me interestingly, which is okay, Charlie, we've pushed back against the media on COVID, on lockdowns, on Ukraine, on the border, on so like maybe we should also ask a question is the media totally presenting the truth when it comes to Israel?

00:31:15.000 Just a question, you know, that maybe we shouldn't believe everything the media says, because I know I've been conditioned to ask a lot more critical questions over the last couple of years.

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00:32:32.000 So Ben, some people would accuse Israel of wanting to ethnically cleanse.

00:32:37.000 Some people in the Israeli government are saying, again, that's all over the place, right?

00:32:40.000 You have opinions all over.

00:32:42.000 In your opinion, what would a good outcome five years from now be and how does one respond to the claims of ethnic cleansing?

00:32:49.000 So ethnic cleansing, the idea, presumably that that population movement is equivalent to ethnic cleansing.

00:32:55.000 I think ethnic cleansing is a term that that's been fairly recently coined to describe population movement during war.

00:33:01.000 The reality is that's been ongoing for literally all of human history.

00:33:04.000 Uh the idea that that Israel is quote unquote forcing people out of the Gaza Strip, that is not the stated policy of the Israeli government.

00:33:10.000 The idea is if people want to leave, they can, but they're not being forced to leave.

00:33:14.000 Uh again, moving people out of heavily urbanized areas that are honeycombed with terrorist booby traps pretty much everywhere, is not the same thing as quote unquote ethnic cleansing.

00:33:22.000 And I think that ethnic cleansing is is very often used as sort of a softer form of the genocide attack, the idea being that Israel is trying to kill everyone, which of course is not true.

00:33:31.000 As far as your earlier question about what we believe from the media, one of the things that I find kind of astonishing and in some of the folks on the right who are highly critical of Israel is actually the lack of credibility, the lack of skepticism when it comes to legacy media.

00:33:44.000 Legacy media are radically anti-Israel overall.

00:33:46.000 The New York Times can certainly not be accused of being a pro-Israel outlet.

00:33:50.000 It'd be very difficult to make the accusation that the associated press, which is where Ken and Glove with Hamas for years or Reuters, that these are these are wildly pro-Israel outlets.

00:33:58.000 And yet when it comes to the reporting, it seems to be sort of the opposite.

00:34:02.000 So the presumption the legacy media is like owned by the Jews.

00:34:04.000 And then we're not going to be able to do that.

00:34:05.000 I was going to say, Ben, but come on.

00:34:06.000 You Jews own the media, Ben. 1.00

00:34:08.000 So I mean, come on.

00:34:10.000 As you can tell by all the wonderful headlines you guys get.

00:34:12.000 Well, I mean, uh, dude, the the accusation that we own the media has not prevented, you know, the Daily Wire from from employing people who radically disagree with me on all of these matters.

00:34:22.000 I mean, I I don't agree with Matt Walsh on foreign policy.

00:34:25.000 Matt obviously is a major host over at Daily Wire.

00:34:27.000 And that's just my shop.

00:34:28.000 And I'm I'm overtly pro-Israel, right?

00:34:30.000 I mean, I'm not making any bones about this.

00:34:32.000 I'm a Jew and I'm a Zionist. 0.93

00:34:33.000 I'm not going to pretend that to say otherwise would be absolutely silly.

00:34:37.000 To suggest that that a some sort of atheistic Jewish person by birth who does not care about Judaism or Israel owning the New York Times means the New York Times is pro-Israel is to ignore literally every bit of coverage they have ever done for my entire lifetime.

00:34:50.000 Uh we we we're running out of time here, but just la last question on this, Ben.

00:34:56.000 I know this might be a tougher question, but BB said, quote, I didn't like how you said this, I'll be honest.

00:35:01.000 You can't be MAGA if you're anti-Israel.

00:35:03.000 I don't like it for a couple reasons.

00:35:05.000 How how did you how did you analyze that statement from BB?

00:35:07.000 I mean, and I think that there is the ungenerous way of interpreting that and then the generous way of interpreting that.

00:35:11.000 So the ungenerous way is to suggest that you have to hold a particular position on every Israeli governmental activity in order to in order to be MAGA, uh, which of course is not true.

00:35:21.000 I mean, you can disagree from the right or from the left with Bibi's policies, and and you can still be plenty of MAGA.

00:35:27.000 I think the idea that the BB is putting out there is that if you are taking Hamas's side against Israel in a conflict, it is very difficult to align that with the with the stated positions of the Trump administration or what President Trump himself is doing right now.

00:35:38.000 And that much I certainly is true.

00:35:40.000 You cannot look, I I think you can have disagreements on Israel and still be MAGA, obviously.

00:35:45.000 You should be America first.

00:35:46.000 But if you're pro-Hamas, you're something darker. 0.82

00:35:47.000 Ben Shapir is author of Lions and Scavengers.

00:35:50.000 Ben, tell us about your important new book.

00:35:52.000 So the basic idea in Lions and Scavengers is that inside every human heart, and this goes back to the book of Genesis, that there really is the dutiful part of you that wants to engage in what God made for you, the this incredible rationalistic world in which you can mostly understand what's going on and you have a duty to do the moral thing.

00:36:08.000 You get up every morning, you try to build something, you try to be innovative and risk-taking.

00:36:11.000 You you try to defend your civilization.

00:36:13.000 You You try to build the social fabric.

00:36:15.000 And then there is the part of us that's driven by envy.

00:36:17.000 And that part of us just looks at our problems and immediately attributes it to some shadowy force outside of our control and tries to rip down the very systems that actually provide prosperity, tries to rip down the lions out of pure envy.

00:36:28.000 Here, think Zoran Mamdani.

00:36:30.000 And you know, uh that that exists in all of us, but it exists civilizationally as well.

00:36:34.000 And when you look at at the sort of activities that were taking place on college campus last year, and you see the weird agglomeration of causes that all come together under varying banners.

00:36:43.000 Sometimes it's hating President Trump over immigration, sometimes it's on Israel, sometimes it's on LGBT.

00:36:47.000 But it's the same exact people all marching together.

00:36:50.000 And you wonder to yourself, what do these people have in common?

00:36:52.000 And the answer is pretty much nothing, except they really, really don't like our civilization and see the fundamental basis of our civilization as evil and wrong, and believe that it needs to be torn out by the root.

00:37:03.000 This is, you know, to take the most obvious example, queers for Palestine. 1.00

00:37:06.000 Everybody's been puzzling over what the hell is that, right? 0.73

00:37:08.000 Queers in Palestine get thrown thrown off buildings. 1.00

00:37:11.000 So what is it?

00:37:12.000 The answer is that the radical LGBTQ group doesn't have much in common with the Pro-Hamas group, except that both really, really hate the West and believe that the traditional values of our civilization need to be destroyed in order so that they can live more fulfilling lives in some way. 0.80

00:37:27.000 So what you you write, you write in here, Lions and Scavengers, saying it's the true story of America.

00:37:35.000 And you you seek to defend the principles that shape freedom of a fair and powerful society.

00:37:41.000 We would imagine those emanate from the Bible, obviously.

00:37:45.000 And is Islam compatible with our civilization? 1.00

00:37:49.000 Would you put them would you put them in the scavenger category?

00:37:54.000 I I certainly think that the Islamic civilizations that we're seeing contemporaneously on the globe, it's very hard to see how that fits in in sort of the lion category.

00:38:02.000 It doesn't mean that there aren't individual Muslims who who fit in that category or that there can't be a sort of interpreted version of Islam that that couldn't fit into the idea of a God-given world in which you have duties and creative power in line with kind of general, very broad principles of biblical morality.

00:38:18.000 But but uh I think the proof is in the pudding.

00:38:20.000 You're not seeing a lot of Islamic countries on planet earth right now that live by any of the fundamental principles like freedom of mind, private property, equal rule of law applying to all citizens and traditional virtue.

00:38:31.000 What would you say is the missing component for those of us in the West to stand up against these forces?

00:38:40.000 What would you say we're doing well and that we need to do more of?

00:38:43.000 I mean, I I think that what we lack, and I think we're starting to see a restoration of it, is the courage to actually stand up on our hind legs and say no.

00:38:50.000 I think that good people tend to be introspective.

00:38:52.000 We tend to think, okay, what did I do wrong?

00:38:54.000 How do I fix that?

00:38:54.000 And we tend to apologize when we do something wrong.

00:38:57.000 Bad people tend to take an apology and then grind your face into the dust over it because they're not engaged in guilt cultures, they're engaged in what are called shame cultures, where the most important thing is not to be made to feel shame, and it is to shame others.

00:39:10.000 And so I think that we, you know, those of us who consider ourselves part of Western civilization, you know, we need to recognize that a constant self-abnegation, a constant attempt to tear ourselves down out of a misguided sense of humility in the face of people who are happy to just destroy our civilization from without and within, that is a gigantic mistake.

00:39:28.000 And it is totally fine to say to people who wish to destroy our civilization, no, your values suck and they don't belong here.

00:39:34.000 Where does all this resentment come from?

00:39:37.000 Uh it comes from a wide variety of places, but it tends to come in general from a feeling of frustration and enervation.

00:39:43.000 And so I think that that you you can get that from people who believe they have been marginalized.

00:39:48.000 You can get that from people who believe they deserve more.

00:39:50.000 You see it a lot, actually, with university students who seem to believe that they deserve a 250,000 salary for a gender studies degree because they've been taught that they ought to be getting more, and then they don't get it, and then they're angry at their parents for for not having put them in a position to do that, and so they rebel against everything that they've been taught and or and everything they haven't been taught.

00:40:07.000 I also think it comes from a bored population.

00:40:09.000 Very often you have people who grew up without any sense of external threat, and they think that pretty much everything that's good in life is the baseline, that that's just normal, and that you can tear away everything without the the baseline falling away.

00:40:22.000 That of course is just false.

00:40:23.000 Some of it comes from ignorance, some of it comes from envy.

00:40:25.000 The reality is that gratitude as a as a characteristic of human beings has to be cultivated.

00:40:30.000 It's something you have to teach your kids gratitude.

00:40:32.000 Envy is totally natural, right?

00:40:33.000 Envy, envy is easy to do.

00:40:35.000 You see it, You see it with small children, right?

00:40:36.000 I have four.

00:40:37.000 And it's very easy to see kids envy each other and get on each other's kids.

00:40:40.000 Being grateful for what they have is a very difficult thing.

00:40:42.000 You have to teach your kids to say thank you.

00:40:44.000 You don't have to teach your kids to say no.

00:40:46.000 The book is Lions and Scavengers.

00:40:48.000 Boy, that uh that that feels like the whole story of Zoran Mamdani, the resentful, envy-driven, bitter Islamist who wants to be mayor of New York City. 0.91

00:40:58.000 Ben, thank you for your time and thanks for uh going through all the questions on the very important topic today.

00:41:03.000 Lions and Scavengers is the book.

00:41:05.000 Thanks so much, Ben.

00:41:05.000 Thanks, Charlie.

00:41:06.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

00:41:08.000 Email us as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:41:10.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - September 09, 2025

Ben Shapiro on George Floyd, Israel, and Gen Z

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