00:00:03.000Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, a super special and exclusive conversation in person at the Turning Point USA Student Action Summit.
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00:00:54.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
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00:04:37.000But it wasn't that they were doing nothing.
00:04:39.000What they were doing is they were organizing the count.
00:04:42.000They were getting the mail-in ballots out.
00:04:44.000They were making sure that our observers were a long, safe distance away.
00:04:49.000So they were orchestrating the mechanics of the election, which is, again, unprecedented.
00:04:54.000Every previous election, I've lived through now six or seven American major elections.
00:04:59.000And all of them are elections in which you fight about the argument.
00:05:04.000And then you let the American people, this is the first time where you have this gnawing feeling that this was an election unlike any other, because this was an election in which one side made sure it controlled the counting mechanism and then dared us to sort of prove it.
00:05:19.000And it seems that a lot of Republicans are unwilling to even look into it.
00:05:23.000And historically, we know that voter fraud is something that has existed.
00:05:28.000It has been perfected by the Democrat Party.
00:05:30.000And we're not even allowed to talk about it.
00:05:31.000Even the mention of voter fraud can get you kicked off of social media.
00:05:36.000And so how are we supposed to unpack this now that we're basically being forced to accept Joe Biden as president?
00:05:44.000I think it puts us in a very bad situation because it's one thing to lose fair and square.
00:05:51.000And we have lost fair and square and we have accepted the outcome.
00:05:56.000It's normal for people who lose to be sulky about it, but then to try to think, okay, you know what?
00:06:04.000Under normal circumstances, we would regroup and say, look, you know what?
00:06:07.000Maybe something went wrong with the messaging.
00:06:09.000Maybe it is the case that Trump provoked a lot of anti-Trump blowback.
00:06:16.000Maybe it is the case that we can now rally for a midterm and take the House and hold the Senate.
00:06:23.000But if at the bottom of your heart you know that this is a system of election rigging that the other side has put in place and that they're not going to be held accountable for and therefore they will continue with it, then it's sort of the end of American politics.
00:06:39.000Because ask yourself this: what is the point of us getting our message out?
00:06:43.000What is the point of me making movies?
00:06:45.000What is the point of me educating people?
00:06:47.000Because at the end of the day, the other side is in control of the counting system.
00:06:53.000So it forces, I think, us into a position in which we've got to say, if this cannot be fixed, we are now in a, I would almost say, in a revolutionary situation.
00:07:04.000By that, I mean the social compact, which basically brings people together that you agree to abide by certain rules, is that that social contract has become effectively dissolved.
00:07:15.000Well, when the social contract becomes dissolved, then you have chaos.
00:07:31.000And I think we have now awakened to the terrifying assembly of forces that they can bring into coordination.
00:07:38.000Think of a guy, think of a guy, an Antifa guy on the street, and then think of a digital media censor sitting in an office somewhere, let's say at Google or at Twitter.
00:07:49.000Now, those two guys are different guys.
00:07:51.000They're doing something quite different, but the effect is the same.
00:07:55.000The point of Antifa is to treat intimidation.
00:07:59.000The point of digital censorship is to do the same thing by sending the message that if you, Charlie, you, Dinesh, you cross certain lines, we're going to drop that sword of Damocles on your head.
00:08:47.000The sad thing is that much of the world lives like this.
00:08:52.000You know, if I were to, when I was growing up, my family voted, but they voted perfunctorily, almost like, okay, it's election time, we're going to go out and vote.
00:08:59.000We are under no illusion that our vote is going to make any difference.
00:09:03.000It didn't feel like you were representative government.
00:09:06.000No, in fact, there was the belief that there's a political class that operates by its own rules.
00:09:13.000Sure, if people tell me today, they're like, Dinesh, what you're doing, if you tried to do in India, if you said about the Indian prime minister the kinds of things that you've said about Obama, for example, someone would come to your house and break your legs.
00:09:26.000Well, they did that differently to you, but that's the point.
00:09:29.000But what I'm getting at is that American exceptionalism is an assertion that America doesn't function like that, or we operate under rule of law.
00:09:39.000So one by one, our faith in these key institutions, let's look at them, academia.
00:09:44.000We knew academia was left, but at least we looked at academia as a place where you could learn and debate things.
00:09:52.000We knew the media was left, but the idea that the media would become the instrument of repressing speech or that the media could somehow think for a moment about the Biden scandal.
00:10:03.000Now, I was thinking to myself, how many news organizations are there in the country?
00:10:07.000I'm talking about the mainstream media, thousands of journalists, right?
00:10:13.000Now, if the majority of journalists go, I'm not going to cover the Biden scandal, surely there's going to be one enterprising reporter at the San Diego Union or the Sacramento B or the Dallas Morning News or Channel 4 in LA who goes, listen, all my idiot buddies don't want to cover this.
00:10:33.000I will become the new Walter Cronkite.
00:10:34.000But see, even that guy was scared because even that guy knew that he'd have no future if he tried to do that.
00:10:40.000So how do you enforce conformity to that degree?
00:10:43.000This, I think, is something that has become very evident and also very disturbing.
00:10:48.000Yeah, and they enforce that conformity through a variety of different ways, social pressure, through I think digital social media has actually really hurt the diversity of ideas, which is the exact opposite of what you would actually think.
00:11:03.000You would think because more people have access to supercomputers, more access to portals of information, more capacity to create, you'd think that there would be more people actually trying to go and push against the grain and actually try to be truth tellers.
00:11:16.000But you have someone who I disagree with a lot of public policy, but I think is a very courageous person, Glenn Greenwald, who gets kicked out of the intercept because he just wants to cover the Hunter Biden story.
00:11:27.000You also have Barry Weiss from the New York Times with that exact same kind of issue, New York Times opinionary page.
00:11:35.000And so I guess this leads a lot of people begging the question, how much longer can this civilization actually continue with the cultural damage that's obviously been happening, the institutions that we have been lost, the political vote tabulation problems.
00:11:52.000It seems as if a lot of the core, the core traditions that we had in the West that at least kept us together through these, that would allow us to survive stress tests, they're disappearing.
00:12:04.000The left got about this business and has been about it in some ways for 100 years.
00:12:12.000They ramped it up in the 1960s, but they thought of it in the 1930s.
00:12:18.000There was an Italian communist named Gramsci in the third.
00:12:46.000And their pastor is telling them, wait for the next world.
00:12:49.000So according to Gramsci, the reason that bourgeois, that there isn't a revolt against the bourgeoisie by the working class, is the working class has been culturally assimilated by the capitalist system.
00:13:02.000So Gramsci goes, we have to do the opposite.
00:13:06.000What we have to do is introduce a culture of the left.
00:13:10.000And to do that, we have to undermine the churches, take over the universities, undermine the nuclear family, create new types of families.
00:13:21.000Now, oddly enough, it is a peculiarity of the right.
00:13:26.000And see, this is true of, say, for example, conservative entrepreneurs.
00:13:29.000The ordinary entrepreneur focuses on his business, right?
00:13:33.000How much thought does he give to how do I protect the entrepreneurial system from the systemic political and cultural attack that's coming?
00:13:48.000And then if I go to them and say, look, I'm trying to make a movie, they will say things like, well, what is the return on my investment likely to be?
00:13:56.000And I'm like, look, I'm going to try very hard to get you your money back, but the real reason I'm doing it is I'm trying to fight the cultural assault on the West.
00:14:04.000If you go out West on a covered wagon and there are all these outlaws, I'm sort of like a hired gun is going to help keep those guys at bay.
00:14:12.000So it's in your interest to support this.
00:14:16.000This is a cost of doing business for you in the end.
00:14:19.000It's tough to make this case, as you know, because our side doesn't think that way.
00:14:28.000And I hate to use that term because it's so overused, but they don't think in terms of systems.
00:14:33.000And that's part of the brilliance of being a conservative and being an entrepreneur is you actually think about your own specific enterprise.
00:14:40.000And there's only so much people can focus on.
00:14:42.000But the left and Gramsci was the beginning of the idea of cultural Marxism.
00:14:48.000And it was kind of built out further through a lot of other thinkers.
00:14:56.000And I learned this from you, the Frankfurt School, Marcuse, Angela Davis, Noam Chomsky to a lesser extent.
00:15:04.000And this was furthered by the postmodernist nonsense that came into our country through Michelle Foucault and many others.
00:15:12.000And I think what a lot of conservatives don't recognize and understand is that this is a lot less of an economic debate and a lot more of a cultural debate.
00:15:23.000And so a lot of where we focus our attention when we come, and you wrote a whole book on this, and I want you to talk about that, on socialism as, well, it doesn't work economically.
00:15:33.000And you kind of get big pie graphs, you know, charts and graphs.
00:15:37.000When in reality, the left is laughing.
00:15:38.000They're like, we're going to destroy the capitalist system, not because we've made better arguments, but because we're going to deprive people of meaning and they're going to resort to us.
00:15:49.000And we're going to go up to these businesses and intimidate them and accuse them of being racist and that they're so afraid of that kind of accusation that they will literally beg us to submit a list of non-negotiable demands and then accede to all of them.
00:16:06.000The left realized early on, this again comes out of Marxism, they realized that the working class is not going to revolt.
00:16:12.000And so what Lenin said is, we need a professional class of revolutionaries who will revolt on their behalf.
00:16:19.000Well, the same can be true of our side.
00:16:22.000We can say that, look, the entrepreneur has actually not going to be the one in the front lines defending capitalism.
00:16:27.000We need a professional revolutionary class of conservatives who will do that.
00:16:32.000But we need the entrepreneur to recognize that this class is fighting on their behalf.
00:16:38.000But this class has got to fight not just in the political, but also in the cultural domain.
00:16:43.000In other words, not merely to be critics of culture.
00:16:46.000Notice that the left, they're critics of culture.
00:16:49.000They dominate the field of, let's say, movie critics, but they also dominate the field of making movies.
00:17:38.000I think the roots of the left, if you want to look at it in its kind of most fundamental way, is there are typically two classes of people in society that compete for power.
00:17:49.000And this goes back to ancient times, to the very rise of capitalism.
00:17:53.000So there was a merchant class, which were the entrepreneurs coming into power.
00:18:33.000But even the movies are the product of words.
00:18:36.000So what the left, so this is a knowledge class, I would call it.
00:18:39.000And the knowledge class deeply resents the entrepreneurial class.
00:18:43.000And the knowledge class has always wanted to have the commanding heights of society dictated by them.
00:18:49.000So leaving aside politics, even if we had no left and no right, you would have the kind of smart set, the big talkers of society, always telling the entrepreneurs, you don't know what you're doing.
00:19:01.000You shouldn't be making so many cars next year.
00:19:04.000The computer industry needs to do this.
00:19:06.000And this is why digging in the ground for oil is bad.
00:19:10.000So in other words, these guys, the talkers don't know how to do anything, but they want to organize everything.
00:19:16.000Progressivism, what we call liberalism, even Marxism, all come out of those types of people.
00:19:24.000And so that's what we would call the left.
00:19:28.000And by the left, what we mean today, and in America, because in Europe, the left is a little bit different.
00:19:34.000There is an international left, which has certain commonalities.
00:19:37.000But in America, the left is ultimately about running things through the instrumentality of the state.
00:19:44.000It's not just that they love the state.
00:19:46.000What they love is the idea of a centralized mechanism that puts them in the saddle.
00:19:54.000Well, it's been quite a year, hasn't it?
00:19:56.000Well, it's actually been a total nightmare.
00:19:58.000And Christmas is a great time to reflect, especially on those who helped us get through it.
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00:20:57.000And so the second most common question I get from people that I run into and very accomplished business people, Tanesh, and I think you've done some really good writing and thinking on this.
00:21:06.000And I get this question very sincerely is what do they want?
00:21:11.000A lot of conservatives who are not in this like you and I, they cannot understand what drives these people.
00:23:10.000There's a little streak in human nature in all of us that is like that.
00:23:15.000So civilization is about repressing it.
00:23:17.000And see, part of what America is about, and this is the true meaning, I think, of Lincoln's The Better Angels of Our Nature, to create systems that suppress the kind of bullying and brutal instincts of human nature and encourage the creative, the cooperative, the collegial.
00:23:35.000But the left, when I talk about gangsterization, what I'm getting at is they are now tapping into these darker energies.
00:23:41.000And they're doing it on the basis that these darker energies are more powerful than their virtuous counterparts.
00:23:47.000In other words, a bad guy is in a way more creative than a good guy, because a good guy is sort of the guy who sort of expects the rules to do the job for him.
00:24:05.000Whereas the bad guy has the mentality of the predator, which is to say, everything is dark, and you have to wait until the innocent guy can't see, and then you can jump on him and take advantage of him.
00:24:16.000And he's not looking for it, which makes it all the more appealing.
00:24:20.000Well, we saw that in film where two television shows, two of the most successful television shows of all time, were glamorizing the bad guy, Sopranos and Breaking Bad, where it was a protagonist was a criminal and was glorified and glamorized.
00:24:37.000And you found the brilliance of Breaking Bad, less so in the Sopranos, because Sopranos is a lot of dark comedy, but it was still a brilliant television show.
00:24:44.000But Breaking Bad, especially, you found yourself cheering for the guy that's making meth.
00:24:57.000I think as if this kind of framing through the storytelling was the soft social conditioning of it's okay to break the law, to go, again, it's just a metaphor, of course, to go make methamphetamine in the desert, to go murder people as long as you could justify it in your own moral kind of framing.
00:25:16.000And Walter White ends up being the hero throughout the entire story.
00:25:22.000And he has obviously, you know, valleys and tropes.
00:25:24.000I don't know if you're familiar with the television show or not, but it struck me when you're saying that there's been this kind of cinema conditioning of the framing from the hero actually being the bad guy.
00:25:38.000I mean, I could give example after example, but it's the case, I mean, even going back to the 80s, that if you look, for example, at a lot of what you would call teenage comedy, you essentially have these parents who are dummies.
00:25:53.000Both parents are dummies, but the real dummy is always the father.
00:26:18.000Well, no, I was just saying that the smuggling of ideological content into what other, in a sense, it's not even, you would say, we would think it's not necessary.
00:27:56.000And one of the big missteps the last couple decades have been the misallocation of capital towards Washington, D.C.-centric think tanks that just kind of publish the same white papers that have not moved the dial, where the left, they were pumping money into cinema, into television shows.
00:28:14.000I mean, one movie that probably had more impact on the environmentalist movement was Avatar.
00:28:20.000And Avatar was the most successful movie, I think, ever in box office.
00:28:29.000But what's really the story of Avatar?
00:28:32.000The story of Avatar is not about a bunch of blue-looking aliens that are trying to fight for a better world.
00:28:38.000It's the evil inter-galactic colonialists that are coming to this wonderfully peaceful world, exploiting it for natural minerals, not trying to respect their natural rights, and with it polluting the planet.
00:30:14.000But they have worked to create that infrastructure.
00:30:17.000And I think we have long term the laborious job of doing it on our side.
00:30:22.000The only good news we have, Dinesh, though, is that the typical distribution of movies has changed because of the lockdowns and the Chinese coronavirus.
00:30:31.000I don't think movie theaters are going to be in the same form as they used to be.
00:30:35.000There's way too much overhead, and you're already starting to see a lot of them be basically defaulted on.
00:30:40.000You saw HBO, they're releasing all their content in January at your own leisure.
00:30:45.000And so a lot of it's now going to over the top.
00:30:47.000And secondly, here's the other thing, and I would love your take on this.
00:30:50.000The content that they're producing is such garbage right now because they're turning their back on the Western canon.
00:30:58.000And as soon as you start to do that, it's really hard to keep a captive audience because it's built into our DNA and into our spirit to actually want to cheer for a righteous and heroic person to fight for truth, protect the innocent, and slay the bad guy.
00:31:14.000That's actually something that's built into us.
00:31:16.000That's why Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Star Wars are the same story.
00:31:20.000It's just told differently, which is an estranged orphan is raised by his uncle, goes on a journey, and actually ends up fighting the evil within himself.
00:31:27.000It's the same thing, just told in different framing.
00:31:30.000When you start to have stories of just kind of these meandering social justice warrior activists that are contemplating whether or not they should get a gender change and it takes them 45 minutes to tell that story, I don't know if that's, I think that there's a great market opportunity for us.
00:32:10.000But yeah, I think we can enter into a period of great cultural creativity, which can be driven by our side by tapping into instincts that we have, but we just haven't developed because a lot of our energy has been in the political sphere.
00:32:27.000So I think we need to pay attention to that, but simultaneously to build a culture.
00:32:32.000Look, the greatest thing that the left had in this election, quite apart from election rigging, is the media.
00:33:06.000A lot of you guys are emailing us, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:33:09.000How do I give back this Christmas season?
00:33:12.000Look, I know it's been a tough year, but those of us that are Christians, we are called to help and to assist regardless of the circumstances around us.
00:33:21.000Whether we had a blessed year or a tough year, it's time to step up and do something.
00:33:29.000They help kids whose parents are in prison.
00:33:32.000It's not even about the fact of what their parents did.
00:33:35.000It's the fact that the kids are alone.
00:33:37.000And the kids, if they do not hear from their parents, they're more likely to also get involved in crime in the future.
00:33:44.000So let's really communicate the love of Jesus Christ with a personalized note from their dad and an access to a Bible in either Spanish or English.
00:33:52.000And that's what the Fellowship Angel Tree program does.
00:33:55.000Last year, the Angel Tree program blessed over 300,000 children of prisoners all across America.
00:34:00.000What's so cool is that if you give directly, it doesn't go to overhead or all that stuff.
00:34:04.000It goes straight to the kid, especially this Christmas season.
00:34:09.000There's a banner on the top of it, charliekirk.com, and we are getting behind it.
00:34:13.000We're donating a little bit of money from the Charlie Kirk show to Angel Tree because we really believe in what they're doing.
00:34:18.000There's an Angel Tree banner there on charliekirk.com.
00:34:21.000You guys can check it out and support what we are doing.
00:34:25.000And I think that's really important because for a gift of $220, you can bless 10 children of prisoners with a personalized Christmas present and a personal note from their incarcerated parent.
00:34:37.000Plus, every Angel Tree family is also given access to free, easy-to-read copy of the Bible in English or Spanish.
00:34:51.000And part of it is that the left, and when we mean the left, we mean the entire body from the financiers to the kind of activist class.
00:35:00.000They were okay with loss leaders for decades.
00:35:02.000They were okay with very risky investments.
00:35:05.000They were okay with the potential of things not working out.
00:35:08.000And now all of a sudden they have all these success stories.
00:35:11.000But Google and Facebook, there were plenty of that went under.
00:35:14.000But it was all under this idea of having institutional cultural control.
00:35:18.000And conservatives never played on that terrain at all.
00:35:22.000I mean, conservatives have been very, very successful, obviously, entrepreneurially, but the allocation of capital, I think, has been unequal.
00:36:50.000And I think, you know, part of what's been for me eye-opening is in the 80s when you, if you said the word tyrant, you would think of like Stalin, right?
00:36:58.000Some guy in a Cossack outfit, toothbrush, mustache, someone who's conducting, you know, who's doing Chinese torture to his opponents.
00:37:06.000Now, when I think of a tyrant, I don't think of Stalin.
00:37:10.000You know, I think of, I see her, and all I hear is like, don't do that.
00:37:17.000And I think to myself, you know, in a small village of ancient times, she would be like the town nag.
00:37:23.000She'd be like on some street corner, pointing her finger, yelling at people.
00:37:26.000But the only people she could really terrorize was her poor husband and her unfortunate kids and maybe her neighbor, right?
00:37:32.000But when you put her in charge of the state of Michigan, you put a police force at her disposal, a whole set of laws, you take this nasty individual and you make her a tyrant.
00:37:44.000So I want to kind of close on that issue, which I'm trying to warn people really what we're up against, which is we live in a country with a police state.
00:37:54.000And you made a series of movies that made you targeted by our own federal government.
00:37:59.000And just let me be very clear: the fact that you were even investigated and prosecuted is a disgrace to our country, considering what other people are allowed to get away with.
00:38:08.000It's such a, I believe, a like incredibly inconsequential action.
00:38:16.000And I've just, I mean, I've said that publicly.
00:38:18.000I'll say it again, especially when we see what other people are doing.
00:38:33.000They have a pattern of going after truth tellers.
00:38:36.000Can you just give some people some context of really what we're up against?
00:38:40.000And if you don't feel comfortable commenting on it, but I believe this is one of the most dangerous things we're about to see, which is the re-weaponization of our police state.
00:38:50.000Well, what happens is the ordinary guy refuses to believe it until it happens to you, right?
00:38:57.000So that the ordinary guy today probably thinks in America that if they come after you, it's going to be like two guys with a folder who are going to come up to your front door and ask you questions.
00:39:09.000No, as Roger Stone discovered, it's helicopters, it's armored vehicles, it's drawn machine guns, it's get, you know, it's drag you out of your house.
00:39:19.000So you don't believe it's America until you have some experience of it, or you know someone directly who does.
00:39:26.000In my case, which looking back on it, it was a small case, but it was a preview of things to come because what happened to Flynn later is the same thing.
00:39:35.000I think with Obama, you had a guy who was a narcissist and who thought that he's sort of above any kind of it's not just criticism, it is exposing his hypocrisy.
00:40:55.000And that ultimately, again, this happens in other countries all the time.
00:40:59.000It's normal, but it's not normal in America.
00:41:02.000And so my own case, for me, looking back, I'm actually very glad in retrospect it happened to me because it was an intellectual wake-up call.
00:41:10.000It told me American politics is not this kind of civilized, great debate that I thought it was.
00:41:18.000That it's a little bit more of a knockdown, drag out fight against some really bad guys.
00:43:29.000And I think, as conservatives, it's opened our eyes to the fact that when you have this system in place, it actually puts a lot of innocent people in prison.
00:44:55.000So what I'm getting at is that that was an incredible blessing to me because it cleared my record and it sort of gave me back my American dream.
00:45:05.000Yeah, and it's an outrage what happened.
00:45:07.000This is our government that targeted you.
00:45:09.000And meanwhile, Rosie O'Donnell was using fake names to use campaign contributions and there was no investigation in her.
00:45:20.000Hillary Clinton, all this, but somehow you had to go through that entire process.
00:45:23.000And Steve Bannon is now going through the same sort of thing because Steve was very, you know, very effective.
00:45:29.000Say what you want about Steve, very effective in criticizing the kind of left power complex.
00:45:33.000I think Steve's case is very similar to yours, where they kind of said, well, what can we possibly get on this guy?
00:45:39.000And I tell conservatives all the time, especially as we're entering this new phase, you've got to act, you have to message, and you have to operate as if they're going to indict you tomorrow.
00:45:52.000Well, it's worrisome for our side because you've got entrepreneurs and people who think, wow, I mean, you know, when the deck is stacked like that, it's easier to give in.
00:46:04.000It's easier to conform and play by the rules, which is kind of what the left wants.
00:46:09.000So, you know, on the one hand, I do warn people about what the government can do to you, but I'm also worried about discouraging our side.
00:46:25.000The downside is that people are going to say, ah, maybe if I just don't give to Republicans or finance the movie and just do my job and just go on vacation, I can fly under the radar.
00:47:08.000So we have to also make it easy for our side.
00:47:10.000We can't demand Herculean levels of courage because Herculean levels of courage are rare.
00:47:15.000Well, I also believe, and this is my own opinion, that if conservative attorney generals in these states started prosecuting a lot of the fraud the left does, there would be a stasis.
00:47:25.000I think that if all of a sudden, and I don't mean to overly politicize this, but why Hunter Biden has not been indicted by the Arkansas Attorney General for crimes committed in Arkansas, I don't understand.
00:47:38.000And by the way, that's just as serious of an indictment in the federal court.
00:48:02.000We don't want Michael Moore to go for Michael Moore with, if I remember correctly, suspicious financing of his movies back in the early 2000s.
00:49:55.000I'm under the opinion personally that Andrew McCabe was brought up in front of a grand jury and they couldn't get a grand jury to agree to indict him.
00:50:05.000And the reason is, and other people agree with me.
00:50:08.000This is not a, you know, Sarah Carter, I believe, has this belief too, is that they just kept parading him on TV and they kept writing affectionately about him on CNN.
00:50:18.000And you remember he went on 60 Minutes like a year and a half ago and he had that book.
00:50:21.000It's hard to get, I think a grand jury is usually 26 people, 24 people, hard to get that in the D.C. area when they're seeing how wonderful of a person he is.
00:50:31.000What you're saying is that the left is able to use these cultural accolades to provide a certain kind of legal protection.
00:51:10.000You want your college to give you an honorary degree.
00:51:14.000So, what the left has done is they've established a kind of ironclad control over these accolades so that they're able to say, hey, John Roberts, if you turn out to be a kind of scalia, we will villainize you.
00:51:26.000We will say you're disgracing the court.
00:51:28.000We will demand that your alma mater not give you that honorary.
00:51:31.000And your kids will not get into college, and your wife will be sneered at when she goes to the ground.
00:51:36.000They will be the most uncool people in America.
00:51:39.000And so those human motives then go, oh, well, that is so exasperating.
00:51:44.000After all this effort I've made to reach this pinnacle in life, to have all the honors associated with it taken away from me, why don't I just kind of play the middle of the road?
00:51:54.000So this is a form of very sophisticated manipulation of people who have that human desire to be liked or appreciated in the culture.
00:52:05.000Yeah, and it's psychological warfare, is what they've done.
00:52:07.000I'll never forget a story someone told me of John Roberts, who goes to a country club in the suburbs of D.C. without disclosing too much of the story.
00:52:16.000Basically, he goes to a country club like any senator would and talks to people and takes pictures, you know, when appropriate.
00:52:24.000You know, obviously, I think there's restrictions against that at that certain club.
00:52:27.000The point is that he's a human being, and human beings talk to other human beings and they want to be loved.
00:52:33.000And we tell these students all the time: unless you're willing to lose everything, then get out.
00:52:39.000This fight is not for the people that want to go run for the popularity contest.
00:52:43.000All of your friends, most of your family, they will try to destroy your life.
00:52:47.000And that's what Clarence Thomas has basically said publicly and privately: there's nothing else you can take from me.
00:52:55.000After what you tried to do for me in that Senate hearing and try to destroy my name, my reputation, he's like, I will never forget that.
00:53:12.000And just to kind of close the point on this, which is that you talk about the gangsterization of our country.
00:53:17.000The legal system is the one that I think conservatives have really got to wake up to because the justice system has this facade, this mirage, and this appearance of, well, we're not political.
00:53:28.000You know, we are very much just about doing the job.
00:53:30.000But I have some very, how do they decide who gets indicted and who doesn't?
00:53:33.000How do they decide what is the threshold of evidence when you do actually go indict somebody?
00:53:39.000Because what you say, Dinesh, is they have suspicion from the New York Times, a leak, indict, then we get all their devices, and then we really start to do what we need to do.
00:53:47.000I think that we need to have a re-examination of, I would call it the Reaganite court strategy, which goes back 40 years.
00:53:54.000The Reaganite court strategy is that we are committed to a neutral process and that there is a neutral process of adjudication.
00:54:05.000Their view is that all processes should be judged by the conclusions they produce.
00:54:10.000So when they look at picking judges, they only ask one question: Is this judge, apart from things like do they have the proper academic credentials?
00:54:18.000The only question they ask is, is this guy going to be a reliable vote on our side?
00:54:48.000Which argument should carry more weight?
00:54:51.000Yes, the court might say, Do I want to open up the nasty precedent where one state gets to quarterback what another state is doing?
00:54:58.000And I grant that the court may go, we don't want to open up that Pandora's box, right?
00:55:02.000But what about the Pandora's box of giving up on the idea of having a fair election itself?
00:55:07.000If you're willing to admit even the possibility that there is systematic fraud, that's the end of democracy.
00:55:13.000So even our concept of majority and minority, think of it, the court is a protector of minority rights.
00:55:19.000But to be a protector of minority rights, you need to know who the minority is.
00:55:23.000If you have an election where the very status of the majority and the minority is open to question, then that what could be a more important precedent than that to allow that to go unchecked is so what I'm getting at is there's no neutral procedure that gives you the answer and says, okay, you know, we don't want to take the Texas case because the Constitution says this.
00:55:44.000No, the Constitution says what it says, and that reasonable people can offer competing interpretations of what it means.
00:56:13.000So is Trump Card, which, by the way, remains incredibly relevant because all this kind of gangsterization is continuing apace even after the election.
00:56:23.000I'm looking to figure out ways in which we can build cultural institutions of our own, academic institutions, media institutions, and then entertainment institutions and bring those different media formats together.
00:56:37.000So that's going to be, I think, where I'm going to put my energies in the next few years.