00:01:05.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:01:49.000Tell us what is your perspective and the strategy and the plan going into 1-3, which is where we're going, you will be participating in selecting a Speaker of the House.
00:01:59.000Yeah, Charlie, what's going to happen is Kevin McCarthy doesn't have the votes now.
00:02:03.000He's not going to get them by January 3rd.
00:02:06.000He's going to offer up anything he can think of to try to get those votes.
00:02:11.000And then on January 3rd, he won't get the votes.
00:02:14.000And then we'll move into conference and we will find a more consensus, a convivial candidate that we can support.
00:02:25.000And we'll go out and elect them to be Speaker of the House.
00:03:10.000You might even have somebody come forward.
00:03:12.000Maybe Steve Scalise says, well, it should be me.
00:03:15.000You actually have people in a conference, Charlie, who are very, very accomplished.
00:03:21.000Now, you have maybe not everybody's as accomplished as others, but there are some who are tremendous leaders, tremendously accomplished, who have reflect the conservative conscience or the conservative center of the Republican conference, and they would be available.
00:03:37.000They probably, some of them aren't going to actually even put their name out there, would never even think of putting their name out there unless it's demonstrated to them that Kevin doesn't really have the votes.
00:03:48.000So I think the fear that some people have, I certainly do, is that we barely won the House, four seats.
00:03:54.000Why are we playing with metaphorical nuclear weaponry right now, right?
00:03:58.000Doesn't it make sense just to get concessions?
00:04:01.000Because there's a lot of power, right, in the Freedom Caucus right now, the four to five majority.
00:04:06.000To put this into conference for an unnamed person, what if Bacon, I don't know if Bacon is telling the truth or not, right?
00:04:14.000He said he might cock the Democrats, but it opens up a possibility of us potentially, albeit I don't know if it's 1%, 10%, 20%, where moderate Republicans and Democrats create a uniparty Congress and we effectively lose the majority.
00:04:30.000No, I see, Charlie, here's the thing that here's where you and I fundamentally disagree.
00:04:33.000I do not believe that's a realistic scenario at all.
00:04:36.000So let's just, so some people have said, well, we're going to get a Democrat or Kevin's going to make a deal with the Democrats.
00:05:22.000So the next question you have to say is, well, would Republicans then walk over and say, well, let me elect Hakeem Jeffries?
00:05:30.000And not even Don Bacon is going to do that.
00:05:32.000There is no Republican who's going to walk over and do that.
00:05:36.000So the real question is, who will emerge to be a viable consensus candidate where people like Don Bacon and Andy Biggs can come together and say, you know what?
00:05:48.000We have 15 or 20 things that we agree on.
00:05:51.000We may not agree on another 20 things, but we can get a candidate who's going to bring us together on those 20 things.
00:05:56.000And they're not going to be an establishment candidate.
00:06:01.000That's a much more realistic scenario, quite frankly, than either of the scare scenarios that are out there that the McCarthy team is putting out there because they're trying to scare people into voting for us.
00:06:12.000Well, I think there is some reasonable fear, at least that I have, that we didn't really win very much this cycle as much as we should have.
00:06:19.000And there is a risk to kind of just saying, hey, might be a little chaos, might be a circus.
00:06:51.000Yeah, well, first of all, do you really think that those people are locked into Kevin McCarthy because they think that Kevin McCarthy is the only guy who could be Speaker of the House?
00:07:02.000I think they might feel beholden to Kevin McCarthy because Kevin McCarthy has funded their campaigns, but you have an equal number of people who say, well, you know, Kevin McCarthy and his group that he raised money for was against me.
00:07:14.000So when we get to a conference and you've had one, two, three ballots that have proven that Kevin McCarthy doesn't have the votes to be speaker, you're going to get somebody like, and I don't, you know, I hate to put a target on anybody's back, which is why I haven't done it because that's why some people who have approached me, they don't want to do it because they aren't sure that everybody holds.
00:07:35.000No, I'm not trying to put a Kevin McCarthy.
00:07:41.000Yeah, well, the plan, what happens is if you go into a conference and people are going to be mad and they're going to be bringing pressure to bear.
00:07:52.000And when Kevin says, hey, okay, I don't have the votes, or people see he doesn't have the votes, then those people that some of those people who have come to me privately and said they're interested, they're going to stand up and say, Kevin doesn't have the votes.
00:08:05.000Maybe I can be that candidate that's consensus.
00:08:10.000It doesn't work where somebody goes in and says, oh, hey, I'll stand up, except for a knucklehead like me who'll go out and say, I'll stand up and I'll run against Kevin.
00:08:22.000I'm a true blue conservative, true red conservative in this case.
00:08:25.000And I have a track record that's proven both when I was in the state senate in Arizona and led that for four years and know what it's like to deal with people all across the spectrum and get a lot of things done.
00:09:42.000The best deal to cut, Charlie, is not on December 6th.
00:09:45.000The best deal, if you're going to ever cut a deal on this, which I'm not interested in, but if you're ever going to cut a deal, it's on January 2nd.
00:09:53.000And by the way, you probably get an even better deal on the evening of January 3rd after he doesn't make it through in that first ballot.
00:10:02.000The concern I have, I know we're short on time, you got to go, is this is the highest stakes game we have right now.
00:10:07.000It's the only chamber of federal power that we're going to be able to enjoy.
00:10:11.000And I still think from a calculation standpoint, it makes more sense to try to get concessions and to try to get on committees than to try to just say someone could emerge.
00:10:23.000We're just the risk of award, even if there's a 1% chance of failure, we could lose a whole branch of government because I have to be able to respond to that, Charlie.
00:10:36.000And the way I would respond to you is this.
00:10:39.000If you cannot trust the guy you're making a deal with, because he has said specifically, we're not going to give you the motion to vacate.
00:10:48.000In other words, you can't hold him accountable.
00:10:51.000If you can't hold that guy accountable.
00:11:58.000You know, it's almost 2023, and nothing's really changed, has it?
00:12:02.000The year's ending, and now things are more expensive than they were at the start.
00:12:06.000We all love Christmas season, but it's not too great if you can't afford all the things around you, are they?
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00:14:02.000So let me build out my current position, which admittedly, I will fully acknowledge is a reaction to not winning enough or basically winning nothing in November.
00:14:17.000My current position is one of a defensive, take what you have while you have it and then try to get the most you possibly can out of it.
00:14:47.000So my fear is if Andy Biggs is correct and it goes to the House of Representatives, so the whole House votes, okay?
00:14:58.000So it goes to the floor of the House of Representatives on the 3rd of January.
00:15:03.000And on the floor of the House of Representatives, they can nominate people for Speaker.
00:15:08.000Hakeem Jeffries, Kevin McCarthy, Paul Ryan.
00:15:13.000And if a candidate does not get 218 votes, it could be a member or a non-member, then they will go into recess.
00:15:27.000And they're going to go back into committee.
00:15:29.000So all the Republicans are going to meet together and all the Democrats are going to meet together.
00:15:32.000Of which, Andy Biggs has said we're going to find a consensus candidate at that period of time.
00:15:39.000And my response is, I hope, and maybe.
00:15:46.000You see, there are moderate members of the Republican Party that are saying that they very well might go caucus with Democrats to find a unified speaker with unified time.
00:15:58.000And by the way, that has happened multiple times in state houses in recent history, multiple times.
00:16:26.000In 2021, Luis Stutes was elected Speaker of the House by a bipartisan, primarily Democrat coalition, even though Republicans won a majority in the House.
00:16:35.000And by the way, the same people that were the architects of the minority party becoming Speaker are now the ones pushing for this in D.C.
00:16:46.000I'm not making a full-throated defense of Kevin McCarthy, so don't misunderstand me.
00:16:52.000What I am saying is what is your current risk tolerance to lose the House by procedural means?
00:17:01.000My risk tolerance, given the ambush in Arizona, the Senate, probably not going to be in our hands, and best case scenario, Herschel wins tonight's 50-50, is making me take a step back and say, I'm not exactly big into taking risks right now.
00:18:08.000I do think it's important if you are willing to go lay a major wager and to take a risk, then to explain how confident you are in that process that we will get A, a better speaker, or B, not just a better speaker, but a conservative speaker.
00:18:35.000Now you might say, well, Charlie, of course it'll be better.
00:18:39.000In 2017, the equivalent of the Freedom Caucus decided to X out Kevin McCarthy.
00:18:47.000And do you know some of the very same people that are pushing for this right now said, we need Paul Ryan, we need Paul Ryan, we need Paul Ryan, we need Paul Ryan.
00:19:28.000And I do appreciate the dialogue and the emails.
00:19:32.000I will just close with this and we'll talk, and then I'm going to, we're going to invite Kurt Schlichter: is my stomach for high-stakes gambling risk, of which the House of Representatives is at stake, is zero.
00:19:51.000If you are okay with going into caucus without a speaker, you have to acknowledge that there will be a persuasive, well-funded, and aggressive campaign from the Uniparty that very well could lose us the House of Representatives.
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00:22:45.000That is a statistical anomaly that's actually mind-blowing.
00:22:50.000It's almost impossible to get 99.4% of Americans to agree on anything, even like how bad Nickelback is or Rage Against the Machine, how terrible they are.
00:23:06.000But 99.4% of Republican-based voters, my core Twitter audience, said hell no to more years of Rona McDaniel's failure.
00:23:19.000So, Charlie, that's kind of an indicator there.
00:23:24.000And yet the Republican Party seems like the 168 high poobahs may actually decide to choose a person the base holds in more contempt than monkeypox.
00:23:37.000Monkey Pox is literally more popular than Rona McDaniel among the Republican base.
00:24:24.000It's always important to make the best argument you can for the other side.
00:24:28.000Rona McDowell can say, well, we really did kind of win in 2022.
00:24:35.000We just didn't beat our expectations or the expectations one might objectively draw from the coalition correlation of facts and history and trends that should have said red tsunami in 2022.
00:25:01.000There's no evidence that she's stealing the money to go to strip bars like people were doing under Michael Steele.
00:25:11.000So she's not as bad as Michael Steele, the MSNBC Republican who was RNC chairman and trashes us all the time.
00:25:21.000So that, as far as I can tell, is probably the best argument that we have.
00:25:28.000I see no evidence that she's reformed the ballot collecting system that the Republicans need to master.
00:25:37.000I don't see that she has energized the base.
00:25:40.000I don't see that she has managed to get us great candidates who do nothing but win.
00:25:49.000I think the case for is much weaker than the case for let's try something new.
00:25:56.000Somebody like Harmee Dylan, who has a great track record, who understands the mechanics of elections and law, and who's great in the media and who is someone who understands how to massage clients, like her, like me.
00:29:22.000We need to gather our strength in the House, get a Republican speaker and not allow some scam where the Democrats aligning with a few soft Republicans.
00:29:33.000And they're already working the ropes on that.
00:29:43.000There are states across the country where North Carolina, where the minority became the speaker because the majority could not select the speaker, and they peel away a couple people and they have a moderate speaker.
00:29:54.000Now, you might say, oh, Charlie, that's not going to happen.
00:32:20.000And that's another important thing, Charlie.
00:32:23.000You, me, everybody listening to this, we're the one hiring the next RNC chairman.
00:32:28.000We're the ones who knock on doors, who walk the precincts, who write the checks, or at least the small checks.
00:32:36.000And we are the ones they should be answering to, not vice versa.
00:32:42.000And the idea that 99.4% of the base can be against Rona McDaniel and 168 people voting for the chairperson can say, well, we don't really care about that.
00:34:46.000It's about time that we take things away from a small elite with a proven track record of failure and utilize all the skills and abilities and insights of this giant, wonderful party that encompasses half of the United States of America.
00:35:04.000There's so much out there for people to for the base to contribute.
00:35:11.000And the leadership needs to understand that and accept that.
00:35:16.000Now, look, it doesn't mean everything, everything's up to a Twitter poll.