The Charlie Kirk Show - September 15, 2022


Calculating the MAGA Coefficient in Congress with Rep. Matt Gaetz & Devin Nunes


Episode Stats


Length

37 minutes

Words per minute

179.3395

Word count

6,788

Sentence count

498

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

11

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Matt Gates joins us to argue that a slim majority is better than a big one, and that the midterms are a referendum on whether or not to go with a "blue wave" in order to elect a Republican House of Representatives.

Transcript

Transcripts from "The Charlie Kirk Show" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody, today on the Charlie Kirk Show.
00:00:01.000 Matt Gates joins us, and we ask the question: is it better to have a slim majority than a big majority?
00:00:05.000 And listening back to this episode, I have to say, I did not do a good enough job articulating that we should want everybody to show up in a massive red wave.
00:00:15.000 And Matt says some stuff I totally agree with, and other things I disagree with.
00:00:19.000 We received some voluminous amount of emails of people that find this argument to be silly and to disagree with it.
00:00:29.000 That's fine.
00:00:30.000 But I can say from doing research and speaking to people, there is a lot of merit to Matt's argument here about actually how Congress itself runs.
00:00:40.000 I'll leave the conclusions up to you.
00:00:41.000 I see it from both perspectives.
00:00:43.000 I definitely sympathize with Matt on a lot of this, but it's a very important discussion.
00:00:49.000 It's critical for the well-being of our nation and for the Republican Party.
00:00:53.000 So I leave it up to you.
00:00:54.000 But I want to be very clear. 0.92
00:00:56.000 We have to try to create the biggest red wave imaginable so that we can be able to be in political power and then we can worry about the rest later.
00:01:05.000 Email me your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:01:08.000 That's freedom at charliekirk.com.
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00:01:36.000 That is tpusa.com/slash book.
00:01:39.000 We also have Devin Nunes that joins us later this hour.
00:01:42.000 And I want your thoughts on this episode: freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:01:46.000 That is freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:01:49.000 Buckle up, everybody.
00:01:50.000 Here we go.
00:01:51.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
00:01:53.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
00:01:55.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
00:01:58.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.
00:02:02.000 I want to thank Charlie.
00:02:03.000 He's an incredible guy.
00:02:04.000 His spirit, his love of this country.
00:02:06.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
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00:02:37.000 Boy, did we get a reaction to our conversation yesterday about going into the midterms?
00:02:44.000 If we get a narrow MAGA majority, it actually might be better than a massive victory.
00:02:50.000 And we got a lot of response.
00:02:52.000 Some people were very supportive of that.
00:02:56.000 Other people were saying, Charlie, I don't understand that at all.
00:03:00.000 What do you mean we want to only win by a little and not win by a lot?
00:03:04.000 I did my best to try to explain it.
00:03:07.000 But on the program, here is Matt Gates, who actually was the first one to convince me of this.
00:03:12.000 We got in a rather, I don't want to say an argument, but let's say a spirited discussion backstage of our turning point event in Tampa.
00:03:20.000 And he did convince me of this particular thing.
00:03:22.000 Didn't convince me of all the things we were talking about, but we'll keep some of that private.
00:03:26.000 And this was one of them, which is that if we actually want a Congress that will do something, then you want the margins to benefit the America First Movement.
00:03:38.000 So I'm going to let Matt articulate the argument, Congressman Matt Gates, the great Congressman Matt Gates, and then I'm going to play devil's advocate.
00:03:45.000 Matt, welcome back to the program.
00:03:46.000 Oh, thanks so much for having me, Charlie.
00:03:48.000 And I always enjoy our spirited discussions, especially in the rare case that I'm able to change your mind on something.
00:03:54.000 I know you changed my mind about a lot of stuff.
00:03:56.000 So the Dobbs decision, definitely going to result in more life being protected and definitely going to result in a smaller Republican majority in the House of Representatives.
00:04:07.000 And while every politician would love to win every election in every circumstance, and I'm no exception to that, the impact of the Dobbs decision in both of those cases may end up being good for the country.
00:04:20.000 Hear me out.
00:04:21.000 I've been a part of big majorities.
00:04:23.000 I've been a part of slim majorities.
00:04:25.000 And slim majorities are able to work more cohesively for a few reasons.
00:04:31.000 One, fewer mouths to feed, fewer people that believe that they ought to be the brand carrier for a particular committee or the party or any other number of the endeavors that a caucus engages in in the United States Congress.
00:04:45.000 Second, fewer of these people who consider themselves the majority makers.
00:04:51.000 I can't tell you after Donald Trump drug all these people to victory on a bold MAGA agenda in 2016, how many of them got here and then said, oh, well, I'm one of the majority makers.
00:05:02.000 So I have to be given a pass on this vote or I have to be given an opportunity to take a walk on that vote and be with the Democrats.
00:05:10.000 And then next thing you know, you turn around and you're losing large chunks of your caucus and that cascades in a very negative way.
00:05:17.000 If we were to have like a six or seven seat majority, well, then everyone's a majority maker.
00:05:23.000 And then kind of in the same way, no one is.
00:05:26.000 And it becomes harder to swim away from the school, right?
00:05:30.000 If you get a larger group, it is more subject to cleavages and factions within the caucus.
00:05:37.000 If you have a very slim majority, it forces you to work as a team.
00:05:42.000 It forces you to understand that you can't do things that are going to drive away a substantial portion of the people that you need to be able to get a bill passed.
00:05:50.000 And look no further than Joe Manchin, right?
00:05:53.000 Like for all of the like independence and bluster that we got from him early on, I mean, Joe Manchin came home to the Democrats because as like the one guy swimming away from the school, like he was beat so hard, there's not enough relief factor on the planet Earth to have kind of like resolved his political pains.
00:06:13.000 And so he came back to the Democrats and gave them their disastrous reconciliation bill.
00:06:18.000 So there's a few of the arguments why I think we could actually get more done.
00:06:21.000 Also, we've got like proof of concept before. 0.98
00:06:23.000 You talk a lot about immigration, and I completely agree with you that if we do not seal the border and deport people who are not here legally, then we don't have a country anymore. 0.98
00:06:31.000 We've lost the shape and character of our country. 0.98
00:06:34.000 Well, I mean, when we had these big majorities, we couldn't pass immigration bills because you'd have 20, 30 people out there talking about a pathway to citizenship. 0.54
00:06:41.000 You got a six seat majority, 12 seat majority, then we'll be able to say, look, that's not where a majority of everyone is.
00:06:47.000 And everybody's got to come home to roost and we got to solve this problem.
00:06:50.000 So the best argument I heard in opposition to that is don't we want to level a metaphorical extinction event of the Democrat Party?
00:07:01.000 If we have a 50 or 60 or 70 seat majority, you're going to have some MAGA in America firsters along the way.
00:07:08.000 And it's going to put Democrats into oblivion.
00:07:10.000 They won't be able to get political power anytime soon.
00:07:14.000 What do you think of that argument?
00:07:16.000 Well, let's play that back to 2010.
00:07:18.000 In 2010, Republicans had overwhelming wins in the midterms.
00:07:22.000 And did that result in the extinction of the Democratic Party?
00:07:25.000 No.
00:07:26.000 Why?
00:07:26.000 Because the Democrats controlled the White House and the administrative state and the deep state, and they were able to use that to marshal a big win for Barack Obama in 2012.
00:07:36.000 So I think that that's had a proof of concept.
00:07:39.000 It did not result in the extinction event.
00:07:41.000 I think the extinction event for Republicans was probably more likely like getting power and then not doing enough with it to vindicate our voters, right?
00:07:51.000 I mean, we lost in 2018 because we didn't keep the promises that we made for multiple elections before Donald Trump was even on the political stage regarding the repeal of Obamacare.
00:08:03.000 So, Matt, it's just, I want to build this out further because it's somewhat paradoxical because some of our audience says, I want to win big.
00:08:09.000 I want to put as many points on the board as possible.
00:08:12.000 And I sympathize with that.
00:08:14.000 And so, can you also differentiate, though, that let's say it's a 20 or 30 seat majority.
00:08:20.000 If it were to be that you have some, you know, like a Joe Kent, for example, that wins or an Ana Paulina, phenomenal, great.
00:08:27.000 But the moving average or history would tell us, once you start to creep up to 15, 20, 30 seat majorities, that means you're winning with a lot of Adam Kinzinger types, isn't it?
00:08:38.000 I do believe that a small majority would be more ideologically MAGA because a greater percentage of that majority would come from districts that are demanding an adherence to the America First Agenda.
00:08:52.000 And undeniably, we have great MAGA candidates in toss-up districts in New Hampshire.
00:08:56.000 Caroline Levitt, certainly very proud of her for that great win.
00:09:00.000 And that's one of those seats that's on the bubble. 0.99
00:09:02.000 And we want her in Congress.
00:09:04.000 But if you have a majority that is, you know, 40 seats, that 50 seats, like some were even potentially predicting before the Dobbs decision, well, then I think that you're far more likely to have the win, the sugar high of the win on election day, but then the consistent disappointment of policy losses.
00:09:24.000 I want to win more than anybody.
00:09:26.000 I want to win with policy.
00:09:27.000 I don't want to win by like, you know, patting ourselves on the back for having a good election night.
00:09:33.000 So let me ask you this, though, Matt.
00:09:34.000 What happens?
00:09:35.000 Someone sent us a great email here.
00:09:36.000 Joe did freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:09:38.000 He said, I'm tracking with you, but let's say we have an eight-seat majority.
00:09:41.000 What happens if six or seven become like Mitt Romney?
00:09:44.000 Do we really have an eight-seat majority, right?
00:09:46.000 Don't you want a little bit more flex in the joints?
00:09:50.000 I mean, again, who could, you know, who could know predicting numbers, but what would be the counter argument to that?
00:09:57.000 Well, I mean, Joe Manchin is the Democrats Mitt Romney, and he eventually came home because the pressure of being, you know, one or two out there harming the rest of the body becomes overwhelming after a certain point in time.
00:10:11.000 So yeah, maybe not a one or two or a three seat majority.
00:10:14.000 Maybe that would be a little too tight for that reason.
00:10:17.000 But I do believe that you have a greater influence on the sort of Mitt Romney faction, the smaller they are.
00:10:24.000 If you have a larger majority and you had an Adam Kinzinger archetype wanting to lead them in the House Republican conference, if there's like two, three, four of them, well, it becomes a lot harder for them to get attention and critical mass than if there are 12, 15, 20 of them.
00:10:42.000 So someone says this.
00:10:43.000 They said a supermajority is the only way to go.
00:10:46.000 Matt's old argument doesn't work as Trump and the MAGA movement didn't exist in 2010, your thoughts.
00:10:52.000 But I think there's a different wrinkle to this argument you haven't touched on, Matt, which is who does leadership listen to?
00:10:59.000 So if there is a 40 or 50 or 60 seat majority, by definition, you've diluted the pool of the voice of Freedom Caucus Gates, Marjorie Taylor Green, Anna Paulina types, and the voice would be fractionally less.
00:11:15.000 And you just have to look at this mathematically that there's only so many Matt Gates' and Marjorie Taylor Greens.
00:11:22.000 There's just so many of them.
00:11:24.000 And when you increase the pool too much, right, we don't want to be in the minority, want to be in the majority, then leadership doesn't have to take your complaints seriously, doesn't have to take any of your demands seriously.
00:11:35.000 We're talking about a very provocative thing, which is, is it better for the MAGA movement, is it better for the Republican movement to win a nice majority, a 15, 20 seat majority, or is it better for us to blow it out of the water?
00:11:49.000 And the second question is, are we dampening our enthusiasm and lowering our base's likelihood to vote, donate, and show up that might impact the Senate?
00:11:59.000 So I want Matt Gates' thoughts on that, but this is inside baseball stuff, everybody.
00:12:04.000 And someone says, Charlie, you sound like Mitch McConnell.
00:12:08.000 Interesting.
00:12:09.000 I don't think so.
00:12:12.000 Hello, everybody.
00:12:13.000 Charlie Kirk here.
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00:13:16.000 Okay, Matt, people say that, hey, we need to win by as much as we can.
00:13:21.000 Talk about leadership elections, Matt.
00:13:22.000 Obviously, you're being inadequately persuasive so far.
00:13:26.000 So continue.
00:13:27.000 It's, I guess, a terrain I'm somewhat familiar with.
00:13:31.000 To those who are saying we want big wins no matter what, we want a 40, 50 seat majority.
00:13:35.000 Let me start by telling you, you're not going to get one.
00:13:38.000 The Dobbs decision is going to result in a smaller Republican majority than people were anticipating previously.
00:13:45.000 And so the media, predictably, will go out and say, ah, well, the red wave was deflated, defeated.
00:13:51.000 Joe Biden is truly empowered.
00:13:53.000 Embrace Dark Brandon.
00:13:55.000 When the reality is we could get exactly what we need in a tighter, firmer, more effective fighting force.
00:14:02.000 And what people have to focus on, rather than just the size of an illusory majority, like, what, if you add me at like 12 more, 17 more Adam Kinzingers, do you think I'm stronger just because the volume of the number of them?
00:14:14.000 No, that's absolutely false.
00:14:16.000 You have to look at the MAGA coefficient.
00:14:18.000 And there's a possibility that a smaller majority could have a higher MAGA coefficient so that we actually win on policy.
00:14:26.000 And to the people that say that we sound like Mitch McConnell, they need to listen to Mitch McConnell more because it's Mitch McConnell who publicly and I would say shamefully admits that the only thing that matters to him is electability.
00:14:40.000 That's it.
00:14:41.000 Electability.
00:14:42.000 Because all they care about are titles and power.
00:14:45.000 And that's what brings us to the leadership elections.
00:14:48.000 I do believe that this is a very dynamic process.
00:14:51.000 You know, I've had in the last 48 hours more members call me to say they're running for whip or conference chair, different things.
00:14:58.000 And that is premature.
00:15:00.000 We need to focus on the midterms.
00:15:02.000 We need to win the midterms.
00:15:04.000 We need to get the majority.
00:15:06.000 And then we should only embark on leadership selections when we see the size of that majority.
00:15:12.000 Because frankly, how could you even vote for a leader without knowing the shape and contours and membership of the body?
00:15:19.000 Because that's the body that that leader would have to serve.
00:15:21.000 So it's premature to suggest that McCarthy would certainly be speaker or Scalise would certainly be leader or anyone else would be in any other position.
00:15:30.000 There's a lot of ground left to go between now and then.
00:15:33.000 Is it if there was a major majority, let's say 40 or 50 seats, hypothetically, which I do actually disagree.
00:15:40.000 I think it's possible.
00:15:41.000 I think anything could happen with what's happening.
00:15:43.000 But let's say that happens.
00:15:45.000 Is that will the Republican establishment?
00:15:46.000 It happens even that McCarthy is speaker.
00:15:48.000 Yeah, it's a a for to all the people who say they want the big wins.
00:15:52.000 Well, then then then live with this reality.
00:15:56.000 A 40 to 50 seat majority undeniably means that Kevin McCarthy becomes Speaker of the House.
00:16:03.000 And so, but if there was a slimmer majority, then what would happen?
00:16:07.000 I don't know.
00:16:09.000 That would depend on the composition of that majority.
00:16:13.000 Is it a majority of, you know, eight people with nine Adam Kinzingers and Liz Cheneys?
00:16:18.000 Or, you know, do you get an Ana Paulina Luna, Caroline Levitt, you know, running energetic, enthusiastic, bridge-building campaigns, you know, winning even in a slim majority.
00:16:29.000 So I think the membership would inform the options for leadership.
00:16:33.000 But in a world in which we go from the minority to a 40 or 50 seat majority, there would be no option.
00:16:38.000 It would be McCarthy or bust.
00:16:40.000 What do you have to say to the argument, Matt, that some people are saying that the way you're talking is demoralizing us and people aren't going to show up because of it?
00:16:48.000 And people are saying, I wish that many people listened to me.
00:16:50.000 No, look, look, I still want to, I started this discussion with the caveat.
00:16:55.000 I want to win every race.
00:16:56.000 If I had my drothers, we'd win all 435 of them.
00:17:00.000 But the purpose of this exercise is to inform the audience about the opportunities that only unlock in a world in which you have a more cohesive, smaller majority.
00:17:11.000 I'm going to work hard for every Republican candidate.
00:17:13.000 I am super enthusiastic about our candidates.
00:17:16.000 Unlike Mitch McConnell, I'm not trash talking our candidates while they're out there working to make their case to the voters in these dispositive final weeks.
00:17:24.000 I'm encouraging them and supporting them in every possible way.
00:17:26.000 But the reality is that this is a different political landscape.
00:17:31.000 So really quick, someone says, Charlie, you guys are wrong.
00:17:34.000 The people who have been winning have been MAGA.
00:17:35.000 Let's be honest, though.
00:17:36.000 What percentage of the Republican Conference is actually legitimately America first Trump supporters?
00:17:42.000 When the chips are down right now, maybe 20, 25%.
00:17:45.000 Got it, 20, 25%.
00:17:46.000 And that percentage actually goes down if you increase the amount of Republicans that win to such a disproportionate amount.
00:17:52.000 Is that correct?
00:17:53.000 Well, I think the percentage is going up either way because Donald Trump had a remarkable impact on a lot of these primaries.
00:17:59.000 The question is, does it go up by a little or does that coefficient go up by a lot?
00:18:04.000 Well, people definitely want that 50 or 60 seat majority from everyone I've talked to, from you to Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Bobert, to Andy Biggs to Mark Meadows, to people that have really dealt.
00:18:14.000 They say, if you want strong conservative, legitimate oversight and action, these big majorities make conservatives the afterthought because they're not necessary.
00:18:27.000 Just something to think about, everybody.
00:18:29.000 Someone asked, what's the purpose of this discussion?
00:18:32.000 The purpose is to talk about governing as well.
00:18:35.000 It's important.
00:18:36.000 Okay, Matt, thank you so much.
00:18:37.000 Appreciate it.
00:18:39.000 Email us your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:18:43.000 I could say definitely not a winning argument.
00:18:46.000 We'll see what happens.
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00:19:47.000 Boy, we got a lot of emails on that last topic.
00:19:49.000 Someone says, Charlie, what's the point here?
00:19:51.000 The entire topic seemed pointless.
00:19:53.000 We don't control the number of seats.
00:19:54.000 We're going to win.
00:19:54.000 I think that's a fair point.
00:19:56.000 I do think the topic makes sense in one regard, though, is that we win to govern.
00:20:01.000 And I want people to wonder or to think about what is the best form of a majority that would allow us to govern.
00:20:08.000 I think that's a very appropriate point.
00:20:09.000 And that was the point of it.
00:20:10.000 But I can understand that the essence did convey, like, Charlie, why are you postulating potentially not winning by a lot?
00:20:17.000 By the way, we're going to have Steve Bannon on the program either tomorrow because he's at our great reset event, and he wants the biggest majority possible.
00:20:24.000 I want to hear what he has to say there.
00:20:26.000 Email us your thoughts, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:20:30.000 Other people say, Charlie, this is actually probably the best way to articulate it, I have to say.
00:20:35.000 Someone said here, yeah, this is the best way.
00:20:36.000 Mara said, Charlie, I kind of get it.
00:20:38.000 We want a lean, mean, MAGA fighting machine, no deadweight holding us back.
00:20:42.000 That is really well articulated.
00:20:44.000 If there were to be the defense of that argument, and I do see it partially both ways.
00:20:50.000 Now, this is the other best argument, I have to say.
00:20:52.000 Kenneth on the other side says, be careful what you wish for.
00:20:54.000 Don't want to persuade motivated voters to sit out thinking they're taking one for the team for a better outcome.
00:20:58.000 Maybe leave it to fate and speak less of it.
00:21:01.000 That's probably a very, very good argument, Kenneth.
00:21:03.000 I accept that.
00:21:05.000 Devin Nunez joins us right now.
00:21:07.000 I can actually ask Devin about that too.
00:21:08.000 That would be an interesting take.
00:21:10.000 Devin, how are you doing?
00:21:11.000 Hey, Charlie.
00:21:12.000 Great to be with you.
00:21:13.000 So, Devin, I want to ask you about, again, I don't know where you stand on this.
00:21:17.000 And it would be actually, it's just kind of something we've been thinking about, which is, is there a scenario where it's actually better to have a slimmer MAGA America first majority, or is it always better to have massive, huge House majorities?
00:21:30.000 What's your take on this as someone who served in Congress and understands it?
00:21:33.000 What's your take?
00:21:35.000 Always better to have the more, the better.
00:21:37.000 And I think for the first time, we have the chance to have even more Republicans than we had back in 2010, which we got over, I think, 240 some.
00:21:50.000 So, you know, look, a lot's going to depend on the next, what is it, 56 days.
00:21:54.000 But I'm actually in Washington right now and was talking to a few of my colleagues, my former colleagues, I should say.
00:22:02.000 And look, we've got great candidates all over the country.
00:22:05.000 I mean, even in districts, I was in one district last night out in Maryland.
00:22:11.000 And, you know, Maryland's a state we haven't been able to play in in a long time.
00:22:15.000 And we've got good candidates out there.
00:22:17.000 So, look, I think that there's a good shot here.
00:22:20.000 And Charlie, I just don't know.
00:22:23.000 Most of the candidates out there, you know, they're at least MAGA.
00:22:27.000 I don't know if they're ultra MAGA, but they're at least MAGA.
00:22:30.000 I, yeah, ultra MAGA.
00:22:33.000 That's interesting.
00:22:34.000 I do think that Trump's takeover of the Republican Party changed the calculus.
00:22:37.000 So anyway, thanks, Devin, for that contribution to it.
00:22:39.000 A lot of people are emailing us, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:22:42.000 And I don't want to belabor the point too much.
00:22:43.000 Okay, let's get to this one here.
00:22:45.000 So I've not been following the Durham thing as closely as I should.
00:22:49.000 So can you tell us what is the update with Igor Danchenko, the main steel dossier source?
00:22:54.000 We're hearing that he was an FBI operative.
00:22:56.000 Devin, you have did heroes' work, courageous work for years exposing all of this.
00:23:02.000 What's going on here?
00:23:05.000 Yeah, and it seems like it never stops.
00:23:06.000 You know, I'm out of Congress, yet I still spend a lot of time on the Russia hoax.
00:23:10.000 It's like a bad penny.
00:23:11.000 It never dies.
00:23:11.000 It just keeps, you know, regurgitating itself.
00:23:14.000 And, you know, including in the Mar-a-Lago raid, by the way, Charlie, that I believe that that raid is specific to Russia Gate and possibly Russia gate documents that Trump declassified.
00:23:25.000 But we'll see.
00:23:26.000 We just don't know what will happen there.
00:23:29.000 So simply put, you know, it's always, there's so many names involved in the Russia hoax.
00:23:36.000 You know, so who is Danchenko?
00:23:38.000 Let's start with that.
00:23:39.000 You said he's the source of the dossier.
00:23:42.000 Well, he is.
00:23:43.000 He's a phony source.
00:23:44.000 He's one of the supposed fusion GPS.
00:23:47.000 They claimed on the record in Congress that their source was going to die.
00:23:52.000 People within DOJ and FBI told me and my counterparts that the source was in life was in jeopardy.
00:24:01.000 And so, of course, we never knew who the source was until later we finally figured it out, which I think it was a couple of years later, that Danchenko was a guy who was, he was actually born in Russia. 0.67
00:24:14.000 At least he had that going for him.
00:24:17.000 But he did things like worked at the Brookings Institute, which is a left-wing think tank here in Washington.
00:24:24.000 After that, he was doing some, appears like he was doing some consulting work living just across the Potomac in Virginia.
00:24:33.000 So the whole, and look, at least from what Durham has now filed, he doesn't have any connect.
00:24:39.000 He hasn't been to Russia, we now learn.
00:24:41.000 And supposedly he had been there.
00:24:43.000 And he's accusing Danchenko of lying to the FBI.
00:24:47.000 Now, why is this important?
00:24:49.000 And he's going to be on trial here, I think, in October.
00:24:53.000 So that's where this at.
00:24:54.000 So this is the big indictment.
00:24:55.000 Durham's going to be the lead prosecutor in the case.
00:24:58.000 Danchenko is on trial for lying to the FBI and a whole host of accusations.
00:25:04.000 But here's why Dan Chenko, this is also important.
00:25:07.000 And I think this relates to me.
00:25:11.000 Even though we knew at the time the dossier was bogus, the FBI knew it was bogus, they decide to bring on Danchenko in March of 2017 as a confidential human informant for the FBI.
00:25:28.000 Now, that is why and how they were able to keep this guy from us for so long, because he actually was then put on the FBI's payroll.
00:25:38.000 And look, this is nothing short of DOJ and FBI obstructing our congressional investigation.
00:25:45.000 Do you know what we would have known had we known in March 2017 who Danchenko was and the fact they, why would you bring a know-in liar, a known con man? 0.53
00:25:54.000 You already know the dossier is nonsense.
00:25:56.000 You know Clinton and the DNC paid for it, and you bring this guy on.
00:26:00.000 So that's going to take now.
00:26:01.000 So obviously Durham prosecuting Dan Chenko, but Congress is now, if the Republicans like we were just talking about, take over, they have to get to the bottom of this.
00:26:11.000 And I'm still frustrated because we're still waiting, hopefully on Durham.
00:26:16.000 He's got to bring, he's got to bring charges against the corrupt DOJ and FBI officials.
00:26:22.000 And he's going to have to bring a conspiracy charge.
00:26:25.000 So sorry for that long explanation.
00:26:27.000 No, Charlie.
00:26:28.000 I have one question, though, here, which is, it's more of a technical question.
00:26:33.000 Is there any way that Congress in the future can find out who the FBI is paying and who is the FBI operatives, basically?
00:26:42.000 What I'm getting at here is the FBI should not just be able to hide behind national security abstractions, right?
00:26:49.000 I mean, Devin, this is a huge revelation that was critical to an ongoing congressional investigation.
00:26:55.000 The FBI is not a superior branch of government.
00:26:58.000 It is a co-equal branch.
00:26:59.000 And so you said something very telling to me.
00:27:01.000 If we had only have known, how the heck is it that they can't tell you this stuff, Devin?
00:27:05.000 I mean, what branch is greater than the other here?
00:27:09.000 Yeah, so that's a great point.
00:27:12.000 And this is something that we've learned once again with the Mar-a-Law, going back to the Mar-a-Lago raid and how this is all and how this is all related.
00:27:20.000 We thought at the time back in the day when we figured out the Lovebirds, you know, and how they were at the FBI, McCabe, Comey was fired.
00:27:29.000 We went through the Mueller witch hunt.
00:27:30.000 It turned up zero.
00:27:32.000 We thought that our investigation at least didn't fix the problem, but we thought maybe we cauterized the wound.
00:27:39.000 We stopped the bleeding.
00:27:41.000 Well, what we find out now with the Mar-a-Lago raid, now we don't have a lot of information, but this FBI agent that was taken out of the building a few weeks ago, what it appears like is that the holdovers, you had the Obama-Biden administration.
00:27:58.000 They weaponized the National Security Division of the Department of Justice and consequently the FBI.
00:28:07.000 A lot of those people burrowed in.
00:28:09.000 Many of those people that were then involved back in 15 and 16 are now at the very top of where?
00:28:17.000 The Biden White House, the DOJ, and the National Security Division.
00:28:22.000 And so they are using the National Security Division, counterintelligence specifically, and they're using all their rules and guidelines to circumvent congressional oversight.
00:28:33.000 And that, I think, gets to the point that you're making, Charlie.
00:28:37.000 Congress has to end, they have to end it because there is a, and I'll just simply put it this way: they have had a get Trump Gestapo operating within the DOJ since at least 2015 when Donald Trump came down the escalator.
00:28:54.000 This is the administrative state run in the country, Devin.
00:28:56.000 This is a much deeper, structural, form-based problem that goes to show how the Constitution has just merely become not even a suggestion, just an afterthought for these people.
00:29:10.000 The administrative state thinks they're so powerful.
00:29:12.000 They look at Congress as an annoyance.
00:29:13.000 So, Devin, what is the battle plan here to not just talk about we got to fix this?
00:29:20.000 This is a constitutional fire alarm.
00:29:24.000 Yeah, it's a constitutional crisis, actually.
00:29:28.000 And the only thing I would just to clarify: when you say administrative state, don't forget it's an administrative state that's working on behalf of the Democratic Party.
00:29:41.000 Party, that's exactly right.
00:29:42.000 They're not separate.
00:29:43.000 They're all one in the same place.
00:29:44.000 Yeah, it's even worse than that.
00:29:45.000 It's that Trump, even when he ran the executive branch, didn't run this part of the executive branch.
00:29:52.000 And so you had, they carved themselves out into basically a fourth branch of government.
00:29:58.000 Yeah, but yeah, essentially, there is a cell operating even in the Trump administration.
00:30:04.000 Nobody was able to, you know, we exposed most of it, but we weren't, clearly weren't able to stop it.
00:30:10.000 And the fact that that lived all through the Trump administration, I think, tells you how deep the tentacles of Obama and Clinton and all these people are.
00:30:21.000 They basically had people within the inside that were giving information to the Democrats, taking actions on their behalf.
00:30:29.000 And don't forget, their other co-partner in this is essentially the fake news, where they selectively leaked information to the fake news and continue to do that today.
00:30:40.000 And look, just to add insult to injury, and the reason that I'm running True Social, we also now know that they were taking that big tech was taking action on behalf of these bad actors.
00:30:52.000 So it's a crisis.
00:30:54.000 I really want to talk about next.
00:30:55.000 Yeah, it's extraordinary.
00:30:56.000 It really is.
00:30:57.000 And by the way, the work Truth Social is doing is so important.
00:31:00.000 Everyone's got to check out Truth Social.
00:31:01.000 We post there regularly.
00:31:03.000 It's phenomenal.
00:31:04.000 So Devin Nunes is here.
00:31:08.000 We're always trying to go a level deeper here on this program.
00:31:10.000 And the constitutional violations of separate but equal powers and checks and balances is so flagrant.
00:31:19.000 That's the buried lead here, is how they feel as if they can run the government.
00:31:25.000 Man, if there's a reason to put people in prison, it would be to think that they can create their own branch of government.
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00:32:27.000 Devin, talk about Facebook, the news story from the New York Post, spying on private messages of Americans who question the 2020 election.
00:32:36.000 Yeah, I actually just posted that, reposted that on True Social, Charlie, because that came as a shock to me.
00:32:44.000 And this is just right on the heels of the Biden administration and the evidence of FBI and others saying that the, I'm sorry, during the Biden campaign, pressuring FBI to then pressure Facebook and Twitter and others to censor the Hunter Biden laptop story and say that it was Russian disinformation.
00:33:06.000 You may remember, I think it was Zuckerberg revealed that on Joe Rogan's podcast here just a month ago.
00:33:14.000 So this is something new.
00:33:16.000 Obviously, a lot of ground to plow here for hopefully what is a new Republican Congress.
00:33:23.000 They've got a lot of work to do and all they're going to be able to do is expose and then hope for 2024.
00:33:32.000 Yeah, I mean, the details of this, as reported by Miranda Devine, Facebook has been spying on the private messages and data of Americans who report and reporting them to the FBI if they express anti-government or anti-authority sentiments or question the 2020 election.
00:33:49.000 Under the FBI collaboration question, somebody at Facebook, operation, I'm sorry, somebody at Facebook red flagged these supposedly subversive private messages over the last 19 months.
00:34:01.000 So I'm sure that some agreement that they check a box on, Devin, you know, shows that, okay, we're, you know, we don't, we can give whatever data we want to whatever people.
00:34:11.000 But how is this more philosophically not a violation of privacy?
00:34:16.000 How is this not a core crossing of the privacy Rubicon that Mark Zuckerberg always says true?
00:34:24.000 I mean, that Facebook has.
00:34:27.000 Yeah, that really gets to the gist of it, right?
00:34:32.000 So when you, you brought up a good term.
00:34:34.000 Nobody ever pays attention to those terms of service and people just click the box.
00:34:40.000 But this is the problem.
00:34:42.000 This is why True Social exists.
00:34:43.000 This is why Rumble exists because we have to have a place where people can go and know that their data is not going to be searched through.
00:34:54.000 It's not going to be given away or sold.
00:34:57.000 And that's the problem is that these are private companies.
00:35:01.000 And you know all the arguments that some of these big tech companies are probably should be sued under antitrust because they're monopolies.
00:35:11.000 But for sure, kind of the social media companies just sucking up and taking all your data is something that we don't do at True Social.
00:35:19.000 And I would even go one step further.
00:35:21.000 A lot of people have compared us to Twitter, True Social to Twitter.
00:35:27.000 And look, that's fine because right now we are news and information.
00:35:31.000 But look, we know where the users are.
00:35:34.000 And Twitter is just a place for people to go put their press releases on.
00:35:38.000 for corporates and and Hollywood types and sports figures, they just and politicians to put out press releases.
00:35:47.000 But you know this, Charlie, you know, you get under the age of 45, not a lot of people are on, those people are not on Twitter.
00:35:53.000 And in fact, they're not even on Facebook anymore.
00:35:56.000 You can argue they're on Instagram, which is owned by Facebook, but these young kids are on TikTok.
00:36:02.000 And so what's worse, you got Facebook doing work on behalf of a corrupt DOJ and FBI that we just talked about in the last segment, which I think brings up all kinds of questions.
00:36:13.000 It's totally true. 0.98
00:36:14.000 Also, you got to remember the TikTok data is likely going right back to the Chinese communist.
00:36:20.000 Yeah, I mean, TikTok should be banned from operation in our country.
00:36:23.000 There is no redeemable value of TikTok.
00:36:25.000 I think it's awful.
00:36:26.000 It's terrible.
00:36:26.000 They're spying on our kids.
00:36:28.000 They're making our kids literally have behavioral disorders and problems.
00:36:31.000 Actual ticks are developing in young girls.
00:36:33.000 It's increasing depression, suicide, anxiety.
00:36:37.000 I wish Trump would have just totally banned it.
00:36:39.000 I know he tried to.
00:36:40.000 It's so bad for our country.
00:36:42.000 And for parents out there, you should never let your kids use TikTok.
00:36:44.000 Devin, really quick, 30 seconds.
00:36:47.000 How are things going at Truth Social?
00:36:50.000 Hey, you know, it's every day, every day we grow and every day we get attacked by the left, Charlie, and by the fake news, which means things are going well.
00:37:00.000 They're not attacking us.
00:37:01.000 It means that we're not doing well.
00:37:04.000 And obviously, we're patiently waiting on Google to put us in the Play Store.
00:37:10.000 You can go to the Play Store and you can pre-order, or you can do a sideload.
00:37:14.000 If you go to truthsocial.com, if you have an Android app, you can, or an Android phone, you can actually sideload the app.
00:37:21.000 But look, we want to be in the Google Play Store, and we are just praying to the Google gods that they'll let us on there someday. 0.98
00:37:28.000 Don't hold your breath to those pagan idols of Molech.
00:37:32.000 Okay, Devin Nunes is here. 1.00
00:37:33.000 God bless you.
00:37:34.000 Thank you, Devin.
00:37:35.000 You have the great work.
00:37:36.000 Thanks, Charlie.
00:37:37.000 Appreciate it.
00:37:39.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.
00:37:40.000 Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.
00:37:43.000 Thanks so much for listening.
00:37:44.000 God bless.
00:37:47.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.