The Charlie Kirk Show - Can Charlie's Home State Prove Him Wrong?

00:00:00.000 Hey, everybody.

00:00:00.000 My conversation at University of Illinois.

00:00:02.000 We take an open mic.

00:00:03.000 We answer a lot of questions about Garcia, the open border, about transgenderism, about abortion, and more.

00:00:10.000 Email me, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast.

00:00:14.000 Open up your podcast application and type in Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:17.000 And make sure you guys consider becoming a member today.

00:00:20.000 Members.CharlieKirk.com That is Members.CharlieKirk.com Thanks to Alan Jackson Ministries for your continued support.

00:00:27.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:28.000 Here we go.

00:00:29.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:30.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:32.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:36.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:39.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:40.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:41.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:00:43.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:50.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:00:58.000 That's why we are here.

00:01:02.000 Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of The Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.

00:01:12.000 Learn how you can protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:18.000 That is noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:20.000 It's where I buy all of my gold.

00:01:22.000 Go to noblegoldinvestments.com.

00:01:27.000 Thank you, everybody.

00:01:28.000 Please take a seat.

00:01:29.000 It's great to be back in Illinois, I'll tell you what.

00:01:33.000 All right, let's see.

00:01:34.000 Anyone from Wheeling?

00:01:35.000 Come on, someone's got to be from Wheeling, inevitably.

00:01:38.000 Hersey?

00:01:39.000 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:01:40.000 We don't like Hersey.

00:01:41.000 Anyone from Wheeling up there?

00:01:43.000 All right.

00:01:45.000 I'll tell you what.

00:01:46.000 Illinois is one person from Wheeling?

00:01:48.000 You go to Wheeling High School?

00:01:49.000 That's what I'm talking about.

00:01:51.000 Anybody else?

00:01:52.000 No, no, no.

00:01:53.000 Hersey?

00:01:54.000 No, no, we don't like Hersey.

00:01:55.000 Where'd you go to middle school is the real question.

00:01:59.000 Where?

00:01:59.000 No, River Trail is even worse.

00:02:01.000 London?

00:02:03.000 No, no, no.

00:02:03.000 MacArthur Middle School, everybody.

00:02:04.000 That's the best.

00:02:05.000 Where?

00:02:05.000 Wheeling?

00:02:06.000 I love it.

00:02:07.000 All right.

00:02:07.000 Well, I went to Wheeling High School.

00:02:09.000 I'm from Illinois.

00:02:09.000 I know we got a lot of people from the suburbs of Chicago here.

00:02:12.000 It's great to be here, everybody.

00:02:13.000 Thank you for the great welcome.

00:02:15.000 Sorry for the delay getting in.

00:02:18.000 But a lot I could talk about here.

00:02:19.000 We honestly want to get right into question and answer because that's the most fun and that's why people wait in line to kind of see that and experience that.

00:02:25.000 A lot happening in the country.

00:02:26.000 In case you missed it, I don't know, a couple months ago we won a presidential election, which was pretty awesome.

00:02:30.000 And...

00:02:36.000 What you are seeing is sometimes the not-so-perfect process of taking back a government from a prior regime that ignored its own citizens.

00:02:49.000 The very good news is we have a southern border again, which is amazing.

00:02:52.000 There was 10,000 people crossing the border a day under Joe Biden.

00:02:55.000 Now that number is basically and effectively zero, securing the southern border.

00:02:59.000 President Trump is doing everything he said he was going to do.

00:03:01.000 I believe we're going to get the whole tariff thing figured out.

00:03:03.000 We'll talk about that tonight.

00:03:04.000 We'll have a great discussion there.

00:03:06.000 President Donald Trump signed an executive order saying no men in female sports, no men in female locker rooms. 0.88

00:03:17.000 Declaring the cartels as a foreign terrorist organization, signing an executive order, of course, Drill Baby Drill.

00:03:23.000 Oil prices, by the way, are down nearly $20 in just the last couple of days.

00:03:26.000 You're going to see that at the pump very soon.

00:03:28.000 All that to say, though, nothing, obviously, when you take over an administration, is going to go perfectly.

00:03:33.000 But what is so refreshing is to finally see a person who was a candidate who became president.

00:03:38.000 Doing exactly what he campaigned on and not just turning his back on his voters and doing something that is the opposite.

00:03:44.000 Everybody in this room, regardless if you're a Trump lover or a Trump hater, there is a sense of urgency for you.

00:03:50.000 Gen Z, thankfully, by the way, is increasingly becoming the most conservative generation in history. 0.99

00:03:55.000 It's moving very, very quickly.

00:03:57.000 Some great stuff, everybody.

00:03:59.000 A lot better than millennials, I'll tell you what. 1.00

00:04:03.000 When I spoke here eight years ago, we could barely fill a hundred-person room, and now we're going to turn away like 600 people tonight.

00:04:10.000 It's incredible.

00:04:11.000 But it is a serious issue that is facing Gen Z. You are the first generation in American history to have a future that is materially worse off than your parents. 0.92

00:04:22.000 You are the most suicidal generation in history, the most depressed generation in history.

00:04:26.000 It is harder than ever to own a home.

00:04:27.000 Harder than ever to be able to work hard and get ahead.

00:04:30.000 Many of you are going to experience yourself in the red, not in the black, of your financial situation.

00:04:36.000 What has gone down is a breakdown of the social compact and the social contract, which is that we have decided that the next generation does not deserve the same future that your parents had.

00:04:46.000 And I believe that's one of the big breakdowns as to why so many young people decided to trust Donald Trump with their vote back in November.

00:04:53.000 It was basically...

00:04:54.000 It was a signal.

00:04:56.000 It was a cry for help.

00:04:57.000 It was a distress signal of a generation that owned nothing and is not happy and understands that if you do not have a meaningful opportunity to do the very basic things, get married, have children, start a family, own a home, and instead you have to go move to the big cities like Indianapolis or Chicago, rent for the rest of your life, and maybe get married, maybe have kids, maybe not, and you kind of continue on this.

00:05:22.000 This cycle of misery.

00:05:23.000 Meanwhile, your parents are like, oh yeah, it was super easy for us to buy a home in Hinsdale in the 1970s or 80s.

00:05:28.000 Like, well, I don't know if you're ever going to be able to do that under the current economic established order.

00:05:32.000 So what you are seeing is hopefully a rebalancing of that.

00:05:35.000 Young people overwhelmingly voted for that in an amazing way back in November.

00:05:40.000 Because regardless of your political affiliation, the next generation, I believe, doesn't just deserve better, but it's generational theft.

00:05:48.000 It's intergenerational thievery.

00:05:50.000 To steal from young people just so that the older generation can have, you know, a nice decade. 0.65

00:05:55.000 And we saw this explicitly during the lockdowns.

00:05:58.000 The lockdowns, in my opinion, was one of the greatest mistakes in modern American history, was one of the greatest public policy mistakes.

00:06:05.000 We never should have locked down our schools.

00:06:07.000 We never should have canceled prom, graduation.

00:06:10.000 One of the greatest mistakes ever.

00:06:12.000 And the argument that was made was that, well, we're going to make you, the kids, suffer because you might infect grandma.

00:06:20.000 Moral disaster.

00:06:22.000 We are the first generation in American history where parents were willing to make their kids suffer so that they could have it nicer.

00:06:29.000 I want you to think about how perverse that is.

00:06:31.000 Every other generation would be, I, the adult, will live a worse life so my kid can live a better life.

00:06:38.000 This is the first time where they said, we're going to shut down the schools even though the kids are going to commit suicide more, they're going to be more isolated, they're going to be more depressed, even though half...

00:06:47.000 Of girls by the time they reach the age of 25 are going to be on antidepressants or clinically depressed or some sort of general anxiety disorder, largely because of the outgrowth of COVID.

00:06:55.000 Even though we're going to see all of these mental health issues coming out of COVID, we're still going to lock everything down for something that was never a threat to you in this audience.

00:07:04.000 This virus was never a threat to you in this audience, but we did this under the guise in the medium that, well, you might go infect somebody older than you.

00:07:12.000 Well, hold on a second.

00:07:13.000 Wouldn't the smarter thing have been just to quarantine?

00:07:16.000 The older individuals and let the younger people still have school and still have sports and not shut down Illinois schools for a year and a half.

00:07:23.000 And we saw it as a catastrophic failure.

00:07:25.000 Reading levels went down.

00:07:26.000 Math levels went down.

00:07:27.000 And it's a generation that is left behind.

00:07:29.000 And now we're trying to catch up.

00:07:31.000 By doing that, we need to see wages go up.

00:07:32.000 We need to see debt levels go down.

00:07:34.000 And quite honestly, we need to allow women to be women again and men to be men again.

00:07:38.000 Enough of this persistent war on masculinity.

00:07:43.000 In my personal opinion, we need to see young people get married earlier and have more children and have increased families.

00:07:49.000 The cycle of just going to go move to a major metropolitan area, as I said, go work for a company that does not like you, does not care for you, and quite honestly resents you, just so that you could have like a two-bedroom, two-bath in the Gold Coast and act like you're living the dream.

00:08:04.000 Let me tell you what the actual dream is.

00:08:06.000 The real dream is being able to wake up every single day with a wife who loves you or a husband that loves you.

00:08:11.000 And even if you're struggling, even if you're going through life with tension, to have children, not just a bunch of cats and a nice job working for Boeing because, oh, I'm told that we have to go pursue the corporate dream.

00:08:24.000 There is a deeper existence out there than what you have been sold.

00:08:27.000 For the young ladies out there, I understand that there's hyper-feminist lie that's being pushed. 1.00

00:08:31.000 You've got to go to college.

00:08:32.000 You've got to get a job.

00:08:33.000 That's all fine.

00:08:33.000 That's great.

00:08:34.000 Pursue your passions.

00:08:35.000 Do all that.

00:08:35.000 But understand, the happiest woman in America.

00:08:38.000 This is definitionally true.

00:08:39.000 The data shows it.

00:08:40.000 The happiest women in America are not the CEOs.

00:08:42.000 They're not the mid-level managers.

00:08:43.000 They're not the HR executives.

00:08:45.000 The happiest women in America are married with kids, by far. 0.64

00:08:48.000 They are the happiest women in America, by far.

00:08:51.000 And we need to not just give young ladies the permission for that.

00:08:56.000 We need to say that the most elevated, heroic, and courageous thing that you could do in this country is not go get a second master's degree at University of Chicago.

00:09:05.000 It's maybe have more kids than you can afford.

00:09:07.000 Build a family beyond what your apartment can actually hold.

00:09:10.000 That is actually what it looks like to be a hero in modern America, not wearing a mask fighting systemic racism in the streets of Grant Park, acting as if you're some sort of social justice warrior activist.

00:09:21.000 One is a hero and one is a coward.

00:09:24.000 Okay, with that, I actually just did a three-hour event earlier at Illinois State University.

00:09:28.000 Don't hold that against me.

00:09:29.000 So I'm largely talked out until we start getting a Q&A.

00:09:35.000 These events, as you can imagine, take incredible stamina.

00:09:37.000 We're doing this every day.

00:09:38.000 Yesterday we were in South Carolina, two events today.

00:09:40.000 Then we go to Purdue.

00:09:41.000 We don't like Purdue.

00:09:42.000 And then we...

00:09:43.000 Yeah, exactly.

00:09:45.000 We don't like Purdue.

00:09:47.000 And then we go to...

00:09:48.000 We really don't like Michigan State.

00:09:50.000 I'm going to Michigan State on Friday.

00:09:51.000 So let's do Q&A.

00:09:53.000 How are we doing this, guys?

00:09:53.000 We're going to line it up somewhere in the aisles.

00:09:56.000 We're going to dive right into it because I know that's the most fun.

00:09:59.000 As a reminder, guys, be respectful of people who ask questions, even if you might disagree.

00:10:05.000 With the questioner, do not interrupt.

00:10:07.000 Give them the respect that you don't always get.

00:10:09.000 And also, if you disagree, the line will form right here.

00:10:11.000 If you disagree, work your way to the front of the line.

00:10:14.000 We want active disagreements.

00:10:15.000 We will take a question, of course, from conservatives, but I love all my MAGA hat people, honestly.

00:10:22.000 Thank you.

00:10:25.000 We could talk all day long about how great things are.

00:10:28.000 We want to hear the disagreement.

00:10:30.000 We want to have the back and forth.

00:10:32.000 That's why we're here tonight, right?

00:10:33.000 Okay.

00:10:34.000 With that, let's get to some questions.

00:10:36.000 Yes, sir.

00:10:38.000 What's up, Mr. Kirk?

00:10:39.000 Hey, I've been a fan of you for about six or seven years now, so it's totally nerve-wracking.

00:10:42.000 But hey, I'm honestly feeling duped by the Trump administration.

00:10:46.000 I feel like they're not totally delivering on their promises, right?

00:10:49.000 And I think the biggest promise was mass deportations, right?

00:10:53.000 And the ICE Instagram and Twitter accounts, they made a big stink about it.

00:10:57.000 They were posting 1,000 deportations today, 2,000 today, and then it slowly started to trickle down.

00:11:02.000 And I know Trump called ICE or something and was like, hey, pump the numbers up or whatever, but it just doesn't seem like it's going to materialize.

00:11:09.000 And it looks on paper that Obama is going to pass him.

00:11:13.000 He's going to have more career deportations than Trump.

00:11:16.000 14 million...

00:11:18.000 Illegal aliens came over the border during Biden's term, right?

00:11:21.000 And it looks like we're not going to make a dent in that.

00:11:23.000 I mean, Susie Wiles, the campaign manager, she came out.

00:11:26.000 Chief of staff, yeah.

00:11:27.000 Chief of staff, yeah.

00:11:29.000 Okay, chief of staff.

00:11:30.000 She came out and she said...

00:11:31.000 If we get 3 million deportations, it'd be a success. 1.00

00:11:34.000 But there are 40 million illegals in the country.

00:11:36.000 I know there are judiciary problems, but isn't there something Trump can do?

00:11:40.000 I mean, I'm not the only one that's feeling duped, and I'm not part of the extreme right.

00:11:44.000 It's been 75 days, so let's start with the duped language.

00:11:47.000 Number one, can we acknowledge we have a border, so there's no new people coming in?

00:11:50.000 Yes, yes, 100%.

00:11:51.000 I totally support that.

00:11:52.000 Awesome, great.

00:11:52.000 Number two, there's self-deportation happening.

00:11:54.000 The New York Times just did this huge story saying that hundreds of thousands of people are now self-deporting back to their country of origin.

00:12:01.000 They're afraid that they might be deported.

00:12:02.000 That's good, too.

00:12:03.000 We can agree.

00:12:03.000 But I would offer you, I would argue, you need to also offer...

00:12:07.000 The president and his administration, a little bit of grace, he's being enjoined to actually be able to do deportations.

00:12:13.000 He has been sued over 114 times by circuit courts, basically handcuffing his ability to do that.

00:12:19.000 Now, we had an amazing Supreme Court victory yesterday where the Supreme Court came and said, yes, actually, you can use the Alien and Invaders Act to be able to get MS-13 and Trendy Aragua out of the country, which is amazing. 0.98

00:12:31.000 I do agree with you, though.

00:12:32.000 Even though it's been three months, we do need to keep on boosting these numbers up.

00:12:36.000 Largely, it is a legal problem.

00:12:38.000 Every time a single person gets deported, there's a lawsuit and a judge that does an injunction.

00:12:42.000 Lawsuit and judge that does an injunction.

00:12:44.000 Yeah, totally.

00:12:44.000 So we have to wait for the Supreme Court to continue to weigh in on that.

00:12:49.000 With that being said, though, the administration is constantly innovating as a way to solve this problem.

00:12:55.000 And the final thing I'll say is this, and I understand your urgency.

00:12:57.000 We've never dealt with this kind of a problem before.

00:13:00.000 We have 14 million new people.

00:13:02.000 It might be 12, but I think 14 is about right.

00:13:04.000 In four years.

00:13:05.000 I mean, it's an unprecedented amount of people.

00:13:08.000 To put that into perspective, that there are 30 states that have less people than 14 million people.

00:13:16.000 I mean, it's a big deal, but I mean, Tom Homan came out and he said, hey, we're not going to be rounding up people in the street in vans.

00:13:22.000 And I'm like, how else is it going to get done?

00:13:25.000 I get that would look bad.

00:13:26.000 It'd be a terrible look, bad optics, but it's got to get done somehow.

00:13:30.000 And if Trump doesn't do it, how's it going to get done?

00:13:32.000 Fair enough.

00:13:33.000 It's been 75 days.

00:13:34.000 Give them a little bit of time, right?

00:13:36.000 The deportations will increase, and I believe that any person that crossed under Joe Biden should be returned back to their country of origin, and we need to keep the pressure on, and I believe President Trump will deliver.

00:13:47.000 Thank you very much.

00:13:48.000 Appreciate it.

00:13:48.000 Thank you.

00:13:51.000 We're honored to be partnering with the Alan Jackson Ministries, and today I want to point you to their podcast.

00:13:56.000 It's called Culture and Christianity, the Alan Jackson Podcast.

00:14:00.000 What makes it unique is Pastor Allen's biblical perspective.

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00:14:06.000 Gender confusion, abortion, immigration, Doge, Trump, and the White House.

00:14:10.000 Issues in the church.

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00:14:31.000 You can find it on YouTube, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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00:14:46.000 That is alanjackson.com.

00:14:48.000 Again, that is alanjackson.com.

00:14:53.000 Hey, Charlie.

00:14:54.000 I'm a freshman here majoring in aerospace engineering.

00:14:57.000 First of all, I just want to say I respect your ability to engage in civil discourse.

00:15:01.000 I think that's very important, and I think a lot of the times we on the left kind of get into shouting matches and start ostracizing people not to our advantage, so I respect that.

00:15:11.000 That being said, there's a lot of things I disagree with you about.

00:15:14.000 I think I want to talk about abortion with you.

00:15:18.000 I've never debated that before.

00:15:20.000 It's a fan favorite, I know, and I've seen some of your stuff on it.

00:15:23.000 I'm sure you're familiar with J.J. Thompson's argument about abortion, the violinist.

00:15:28.000 Yeah, correct.

00:15:30.000 Okay, so I want to propose a slightly different take on that, maybe a variation.

00:15:34.000 So if there's a mother and a daughter, the daughter can be a teenager, 20, whatever, and let's say this daughter has some kind of condition or organ failure or something where she needs a bodily part from her mom, like a kidney transplant, and only her mom is capable of giving her that kidney transplant.

00:15:53.000 She's the only person for DNA reasons or something.

00:15:57.000 Do you think that mom should be required legally by the government to give her kidney in order to keep the daughter alive?

00:16:04.000 Otherwise, the daughter dies.

00:16:05.000 It's not an analogous situation to a pregnancy.

00:16:08.000 Okay, so why is it not analogous?

00:16:10.000 Well, first of all, because pregnancy only lasts nine months, and you don't lose a kidney.

00:16:14.000 Okay, so let's say...

00:16:15.000 You realize when you have a baby, you don't lose a kidney.

00:16:18.000 Okay, so the mother has to give up her kidney for nine months, and then she gets it back. 1.00

00:16:21.000 How does that work?

00:16:22.000 It doesn't matter.

00:16:23.000 That's why it's not analogous.

00:16:24.000 I understand.

00:16:25.000 But if...

00:16:26.000 Okay, let's say...

00:16:27.000 So come up with an example that is...

00:16:29.000 Okay, the mother has to be hooked up into the daughter's bloodstream for nine months. 1.00

00:16:33.000 Use a real example, not something theoretical.

00:16:36.000 I don't understand.

00:16:37.000 Like, what part...

00:16:39.000 I understand it's theoretical, but what part of this analogy is not analogous?

00:16:42.000 Because it doesn't happen.

00:16:43.000 I mean, of course it doesn't happen.

00:16:45.000 But why...

00:16:46.000 Of course.

00:16:46.000 So then why are we talking about it?

00:16:48.000 Because it's an analogy.

00:16:50.000 Analogies don't happen. 1.00

00:16:51.000 That's the point of analogies.

00:16:52.000 Well, some analogies actually do happen.

00:16:54.000 Can you think of one that would be rooted in reality?

00:16:57.000 An abortion.

00:17:00.000 I think the reason you're trying to avoid this is because you realize that the government...

00:17:05.000 Let's flip this hypothetical around.

00:17:07.000 Let's say that you had a very awful disease for nine months.

00:17:14.000 A killer disease.

00:17:15.000 And if you took a magical pill...

00:17:17.000 Because we're going to use hypotheticals that could kill somebody randomly around the world.

00:17:21.000 Would you do it?

00:17:23.000 I would not do it, no.

00:17:24.000 But, okay.

00:17:25.000 So you would let the other person live?

00:17:27.000 I would.

00:17:28.000 But, okay.

00:17:29.000 The difference here is that...

00:17:31.000 That's your pro-life?

00:17:33.000 No.

00:17:33.000 Okay.

00:17:34.000 Here's my distinction I wanted to make, though.

00:17:39.000 I think there's a very important distinction to be made.

00:17:44.000 Between thinking that abortions are good versus thinking that women should have the choice to have an abortion. 0.67

00:17:49.000 Because in our scenario, the mother-daughter, you can argue that the right thing to do, the thing you would want to do, or the thing that I would want someone to do, is to donate the kidney and save the daughter.

00:17:59.000 But I think there's kind of an instinct that for the mother, some sort of autonomy, bodily autonomy perhaps, stands in the way and basically says the government cannot enforce her to do that, even if it's the thing that we would feel is right for her to do.

00:18:13.000 So what about that situation is different?

00:18:16.000 Is it the mother's DNA?

00:18:18.000 What do you mean?

00:18:19.000 Is the baby in her DNA?

00:18:22.000 Well, in my first analogy, I guess, yeah.

00:18:25.000 But it's a separate human being, right?

00:18:28.000 So every human being should have separate, protected, universal rights.

00:18:33.000 Does the mother have the protected universal right? 0.99

00:18:37.000 To not have her kidney taken to go to the daughter, right? 0.99

00:18:40.000 In this scenario.

00:18:41.000 I thought we were over that one.

00:18:43.000 So, I'm trying to get to at least some semblance of landing the plane here.

00:18:49.000 When a woman is pregnant, there's two sets of DNA. 1.00

00:18:54.000 Mother-baby.

00:18:55.000 If the mother terminates that baby, abortion, then she is basically saying, my DNA matters more than this other human being's DNA.

00:19:03.000 Don't you think a human who is...

00:19:06.000 Physically entangled with another human has the right, purely on bodily autonomy, to do that.

00:19:11.000 If someone else is reliant, plugged into my body, do I not have the right to disconnect that and retain it?

00:19:16.000 No, you do not have the right to starve another human being of nutrients that would kill them.

00:19:20.000 You do not have a right to do it.

00:19:22.000 If you woke up tomorrow and someone was plugged into you, reliant...

00:19:24.000 Again, that's not going to happen.

00:19:25.000 Use a real example.

00:19:26.000 You're not addressing the root issue here.

00:19:29.000 The root issue is to be philosophically consistent.

00:19:32.000 A woman or a man, especially a woman in pregnancy... 0.99

00:19:35.000 Does not have a right to terminate another human being, regardless if it's in their utero, in their nursery, or whether it's in their car.

00:19:42.000 If someone comes up to you and is trying to cause you bodily harm, like trying to, I don't know, not kill you, but trying to attack you and cause you harm, do you have the right to defend yourself and hurt them?

00:19:53.000 Hold on a second.

00:19:54.000 Are you saying that a baby's an invader in a woman's uterus?

00:19:56.000 I mean, in a way it is, right?

00:19:59.000 The baby...

00:20:00.000 Okay, let's say...

00:20:03.000 Is the baby breaking and entering?

00:20:04.000 In an instance of rape.

00:20:07.000 Hold on, that's less than half of 1% of all the cases.

00:20:11.000 I am pro-life in all the cases, but let me just say, let's say that we allow abortion and rape. 1.00

00:20:16.000 Should we then outlaw abortion for all the other cases? 0.55

00:20:19.000 I don't think so.

00:20:20.000 Okay, so then we're not going to talk about rape because you're using it as an externality. 0.91

00:20:24.000 So let's now talk about the other 99.9% of the cases, right?

00:20:27.000 I agree, I'm down.

00:20:30.000 But just to be clear, in the 99.9% of the cases, how did that baby appear?

00:20:36.000 Did it just knock, knock, I want to come in, breaking and entering?

00:20:39.000 Probably accidentally.

00:20:41.000 Hold on, accidentally, what do you mean?

00:20:42.000 It's like catching COVID, you didn't like, I mean, what did the woman do to get the baby there? 0.89

00:20:48.000 Had sex. 0.97

00:20:49.000 Yeah, so she made a decision and she'd take responsibility for your orgasms, right? 0.98

00:20:52.000 Okay, but if you, I think there's a distinction between... 0.66

00:20:58.000 There's a distinction between if you're trying to have sex protected or on birth...

00:21:02.000 It doesn't matter what your intent is.

00:21:05.000 The action has a consequence.

00:21:07.000 Okay, if you get on a plane and the plane crashes, can we say that you consented to die in a plane crash because that was your intent?

00:21:14.000 Well, actually, anyone who gets on a plane knows that when you play certain games, you can win certain prizes.

00:21:18.000 So, okay, there's a...

00:21:21.000 But is it your fault?

00:21:21.000 No, it's probably the pilot's fault or the DEI person running the area traffic control's fault.

00:21:26.000 Whatever.

00:21:27.000 But...

00:21:29.000 More concretely or more realistically, do you agree with the principle that people should take responsibility for their actions?

00:21:34.000 Of course you do.

00:21:36.000 Generally, yes, but I think...

00:21:39.000 Generally, except, of course, when it involves sex.

00:21:42.000 Of course, people should take responsibility for their actions.

00:21:44.000 But in the scenario where your body is being used by another entity, your body...

00:21:51.000 Your argument would have a lot of merit if babies just appeared.

00:21:55.000 If all of a sudden, like, a woman woke up... 0.99

00:21:57.000 Okay, well, in the case of rape, a baby does... 0.73

00:21:58.000 We decided that we're going to put that aside.

00:22:00.000 So you think in cases of rape, abortion should be allowed?

00:22:03.000 Of course.

00:22:03.000 You know why?

00:22:04.000 You do, because I've seen a clip of you saying that.

00:22:06.000 I do not.

00:22:06.000 No, of course.

00:22:07.000 I'm sorry.

00:22:07.000 They should not be allowed.

00:22:08.000 I'll tell you why.

00:22:09.000 I have two ultrasounds in front of me. 0.91

00:22:10.000 One is a baby conceived in rape.

00:22:12.000 One is a baby with a loving family.

00:22:13.000 Which one is which?

00:22:15.000 There's no distinction.

00:22:16.000 Exactly, because they're both human beings.

00:22:17.000 There is a distinction between the mother. 1.00

00:22:19.000 The method of conception does not...

00:22:22.000 Give you more rights or less rights.

00:22:24.000 Somebody in this auditorium...

00:22:26.000 Hold on. 0.98

00:22:27.000 Somebody in this auditorium was conceived in rape. 0.77

00:22:29.000 Who is it?

00:22:30.000 You don't know because they're a human being just the same.

00:22:34.000 Human rights are universal.

00:22:35.000 The conception doesn't matter and the human rights of the mother are also universal.

00:22:38.000 The bodily autonomy.

00:22:39.000 If you're going to say...

00:22:41.000 Then come on.

00:22:44.000 That right there.

00:22:49.000 Thank you.

00:22:50.000 Like I said, like I said, there's...

00:22:52.000 Being pro-choice is not necessarily being pro-abortion.

00:22:57.000 It's just pro the right...

00:22:58.000 Should I? 0.97

00:22:58.000 Again, this might sound awfully elementary or pedantic, but do I have a right to murder you? 0.97

00:23:05.000 No, because that would infringe my bodily autonomy.

00:23:07.000 Bingo.

00:23:07.000 So why...

00:23:08.000 No, time out.

00:23:09.000 Why does a mom then have a right... 1.00

00:23:11.000 To be able to murder the being in her, temporarily.

00:23:14.000 Because that being in her is infringing upon her bodily. 0.99

00:23:16.000 If I was infringing on your bodily autonomy, you could murder me. 0.99

00:23:19.000 If I came up and tried to attack you, you could murder me. 0.58

00:23:21.000 How could you possibly, infringing on bodily autonomy because the baby's there for nine months getting nutrients from the mother?

00:23:28.000 Yeah, and like...

00:23:30.000 When their birth, they rip a hole in the mother, and there are a ton of side consequences that could come out of that.

00:23:35.000 There's all of these...

00:23:37.000 It is reliant on the mother's body.

00:23:39.000 It's biologically the same as the past.

00:23:41.000 Let me just say I'll grant you all of this.

00:23:43.000 So therefore, eliminate the life.

00:23:46.000 Which definitionally infringes on that human's rights.

00:23:51.000 Okay.

00:23:52.000 The bodily autonomy of the fetus does not...

00:23:57.000 It does not trump the bodily autonomy of the mother.

00:24:00.000 It's equal.

00:24:00.000 They're both human beings.

00:24:02.000 Yes, but the fetus is already infringing on the autonomy of the mother.

00:24:05.000 What species is the fetus?

00:24:06.000 It's a human.

00:24:07.000 So call it a human, not a fetus.

00:24:09.000 Don't use dehumanizing language to try to make it seem like it's a clump of cells.

00:24:12.000 Because it's easier to murder things you cannot see.

00:24:14.000 It's easier to eliminate things you cannot witness.

00:24:17.000 So they use words like fetus, not you.

00:24:19.000 Were you a human being when you were a fetus?

00:24:22.000 I was a...

00:24:23.000 Yes.

00:24:24.000 Okay, great.

00:24:24.000 So, therefore, if it's a human being, shouldn't it get human rights?

00:24:27.000 The same as you and I. Just because it's smaller, just because it can't talk like us, doesn't it deserve human rights?

00:24:32.000 It does, as long as it's not infringing upon another human's rights.

00:24:35.000 Wait, hold on.

00:24:36.000 Time out.

00:24:36.000 Is my six-month-old, who demands food all the time and can't hunt and gather, infringing on my rights and my income because it needs food all the time?

00:24:46.000 No, because it's not hooked up into your body.

00:24:47.000 Hold on.

00:24:48.000 No, no, no.

00:24:48.000 Hold on.

00:24:48.000 It's in my home.

00:24:49.000 If I don't feed my child...

00:24:51.000 I will go to jail for intentional child starvation.

00:24:54.000 I will get locked up by CPS.

00:24:56.000 So how is it any different to have a six-month-old under my custody, which is infringing on my income, infringing on my rights, infringing on my sleep, infringing on a lot of different things as a father?

00:25:08.000 How is it any different than the nine months up to umbilical cord?

00:25:11.000 By the way, how many people in this audience are currently having their tuition paid for by their parents?

00:25:16.000 They're infringing on their parents' income.

00:25:18.000 How is it any different, actually?

00:25:22.000 Because you don't think that there is a difference between the baby after it's born versus the baby?

00:25:28.000 What's the difference?

00:25:29.000 Okay, because while it is in utero, while the woman is pregnant, it can cause the woman physical harm. 1.00

00:25:35.000 It is life-threatening.

00:25:36.000 There are a ton of cases where it can cause all kinds of things to happen, and it is physically hooked up into your body.

00:25:43.000 It incapacitates you to some extent.

00:25:45.000 Wow, I encourage you.

00:25:47.000 Just so we are clear.

00:25:50.000 That babies can infect moms with terrible diseases.

00:25:54.000 Like, babies are like disease mongers by the time that they're age one.

00:25:58.000 I'm not anti-baby.

00:25:58.000 No, but here's the point, is that there are risks at every point of human development.

00:26:02.000 There are risks when the baby is two weeks old.

00:26:04.000 There's a risk when they're 16 years old and they start driving.

00:26:06.000 Then there are risks to all of humanity.

00:26:08.000 But you don't think there's a fundamental difference when they're physically connected into your industry?

00:26:16.000 Let's play this out.

00:26:17.000 If the idea of somebody being physically connected, right now there are tens of thousands of babies right now in what is called NICU.

00:26:24.000 It's a neonatal intensive care unit.

00:26:26.000 They're 26, 27, 28 weeks.

00:26:28.000 They cannot breathe on their own.

00:26:30.000 They have contraptions and machines all around.

00:26:32.000 And it's extremely expensive.

00:26:34.000 Hold on.

00:26:34.000 It's extremely expensive for the parents.

00:26:36.000 They have to go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt.

00:26:38.000 Do they have a right to say, you know what, that baby in NICU, it's going to cost us 300 grand as all these machines.

00:26:45.000 Do they have a right to pull the plug on that baby? 1.00

00:26:47.000 Answer the question.

00:26:48.000 I don't think so, but do you think...

00:26:49.000 Well, how is it any different than what it's in utero?

00:26:51.000 Because it's not bodily autonomy.

00:26:52.000 Do you think they would have a right to go pull someone random off the street and hook up the baby into that person's bloodstream because the baby would die otherwise?

00:26:59.000 If the NICU machine doesn't exist, what do you think?

00:27:03.000 Okay, if the NICU machine didn't exist and you had to pull a random person off the street to save that baby's life...

00:27:09.000 Again, none of that is even remotely relevant and hypothetical.

00:27:12.000 You're dodging this because you understand that the person...

00:27:14.000 The answer is no, because it's not applicable to what I'm saying.

00:27:16.000 But again, in some ways you're overthinking it, in some ways you're underthinking it.

00:27:22.000 Let me just kind of end with this.

00:27:24.000 That human development, at its very core, irrefutably, starts at conception.

00:27:29.000 I believe human life and human development start the same.

00:27:32.000 You can have your own thoughts on that, but human development, our process as human beings, start when our deoxyribonucleic acid, as a zygote, attaches to the uterine wall.

00:27:40.000 That is when life begins.

00:27:42.000 Like, irrefutably.

00:27:43.000 I'm not arguing that.

00:27:44.000 But allow me to finish, and then we'll get to the next question.

00:27:47.000 Therefore, at every step of the process of development, you have the same human rights as when you're 18 or 30 or 40. And the most fundamental of all those rights is life.

00:27:58.000 And if we cannot defend your life right, then what good are we defending all of your other rights?

00:28:02.000 Final point.

00:28:05.000 I still think, I really don't think it would hurt you to answer the original analogy.

00:28:08.000 I think you see where it would go that you can't infringe upon someone's bodily autonomy in order to save someone else's life.

00:28:17.000 Do you agree with that?

00:28:18.000 Well, hold on.

00:28:19.000 Time out.

00:28:20.000 Just so we are clear, we infringe on people's bodily autonomy all the time.

00:28:23.000 Want me to give you an example?

00:28:24.000 We drafted men into World War II to go fight for this nation.

00:28:28.000 That infringed on their bodily autonomy.

00:28:30.000 We told them that your time is not your own.

00:28:32.000 Your passion is not your own.

00:28:34.000 You must go run onto Normandy Beach.

00:28:36.000 Would you agree that is an infringement on bodily autonomy?

00:28:38.000 It is, but the government has the right to do that to uphold the nation, right?

00:28:43.000 There's a difference...

00:28:43.000 Saving babies upholds the nation, my friend.

00:28:46.000 All the time.

00:28:46.000 How?

00:28:48.000 In the same way as fighting a war?

00:28:50.000 Yeah, even more so.

00:28:51.000 In fact...

00:28:53.000 Reducing abortions by a million a year would be an enrichment of our society.

00:28:58.000 We might find the next Einstein, the next Nikola Tesla.

00:29:00.000 We might have the next Michael Jordan that is being aborted every day.

00:29:04.000 The government's right to be able to do that, I think, needs to be justified by some reason that it affects the government.

00:29:14.000 It doesn't affect the government to terminate a baby in pregnancy.

00:29:19.000 You don't think a million abortions a year affects anybody?

00:29:23.000 I'm not saying it affects nobody, but I'm saying what you're saying, it affects people in the same way that the government not being able to have an army does?

00:29:30.000 I would actually think it's an even bigger moral crisis than not being able to enlist an army.

00:29:36.000 If you are massacring a million of your own people every year, that's a bigger problem than being able to properly staff the Marine Corps.

00:29:45.000 Okay, so you think we're massacring the people, but we also...

00:29:48.000 Are forcing women... 1.00

00:29:49.000 No, but just to go back to your analogy, just so we're clear, the government does infringe on bodily autonomy in times of national crisis.

00:29:56.000 And therefore, again, I even reject...

00:29:59.000 What is the national crisis that...

00:30:00.000 Murder.

00:30:01.000 A million a year.

00:30:01.000 That's a crisis.

00:30:04.000 Right?

00:30:04.000 If I told you that a million people are murdered a year, blanket, you would say, boy, that's a big problem.

00:30:10.000 In fact, we used to call that the Holocaust. 0.85

00:30:13.000 Okay.

00:30:14.000 Yeah.

00:30:14.000 Okay.

00:30:15.000 In fact, right?

00:30:16.000 I mean, you would say, so just so we're clear, Holocaust went for about six to seven years.

00:30:19.000 Six to seven million people died.

00:30:20.000 Yeah, I understand.

00:30:21.000 I know a lot about the Holocaust.

00:30:22.000 Was the Holocaust a crisis?

00:30:24.000 Yes, it was a crisis.

00:30:24.000 So how is abortion not a crisis?

00:30:27.000 Because the...

00:30:27.000 Because they're smaller human beings?

00:30:30.000 The unborn, the babies, the fetuses...

00:30:33.000 Hold on.

00:30:33.000 You said baby.

00:30:34.000 Therefore, it's murder.

00:30:35.000 It's a baby.

00:30:36.000 Whatever you want to call it.

00:30:37.000 I still think...

00:30:38.000 Okay.

00:30:39.000 Whatever you want to call it.

00:30:39.000 Okay.

00:30:40.000 I think the big distinction here is that...

00:30:42.000 That baby, that child, is still infringing upon someone else's body using their body. 0.58

00:30:47.000 And I think the owner of that body should decide.

00:30:49.000 Okay, I might even grant you that.

00:30:51.000 The point being is that throughout history, we are able to sometimes say that in order for life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, defeating the Nazis in World War II, there is a greater good.

00:31:01.000 And I will say that what is the greater good?

00:31:03.000 That those that are being massacred in the womb can have life because life is good and it's the first of all human rights.

00:31:07.000 And that's the last question.

00:31:09.000 Are you glad you weren't aborted?

00:31:11.000 Of course I'm glad.

00:31:12.000 Then why wouldn't you want to give that gift to millions of other people?

00:31:15.000 Do you want to give the gift...

00:31:16.000 What about...

00:31:16.000 There's mothers...

00:31:18.000 There are mothers that die in medical situations all the time. 1.00

00:31:22.000 That is a red herring.

00:31:23.000 No one wants those mothers to die.

00:31:25.000 But it is a fact that if we outlawed abortion, 99% of them, all of a sudden we'd have a 990,000 increase in our population every year. 0.58

00:31:32.000 And we'd have a much more life.

00:31:34.000 Those children would be raised in households.

00:31:37.000 See, that is a cynical view.

00:31:38.000 You know there's over 2 million people on the adoption waiting list every year.

00:31:41.000 And there are a million abortions. 0.99

00:31:43.000 We have twice as many people that want to adopt than actually abort in this country.

00:31:47.000 There's no such thing.

00:31:48.000 As an unwanted child.

00:31:49.000 And I refuse to live under the bigotry of low expectations where we can justify, oh, they're going to have a bad life or they're going to grow up in a crime-ridden neighborhood.

00:32:00.000 I'm sorry.

00:32:01.000 I know you don't mean it.

00:32:02.000 That's how you get to eugenics. 0.94

00:32:04.000 If you start to all of a sudden say that their life is going to be terrible, therefore we can eliminate them.

00:32:09.000 That's not the point I was trying to make.

00:32:11.000 That is exactly the point you were making.

00:32:12.000 No, I'm starting with the bodily autonomy thing.

00:32:14.000 No, no, but eventually...

00:32:16.000 You interjected.

00:32:17.000 You granted for a moment there.

00:32:17.000 You granted for a moment the thing about...

00:32:20.000 No, I said if I were to grant you the bodily autonomy, it doesn't even bear out that at times the government can actually take possession of your bodily autonomy.

00:32:28.000 When did Roe v. 0.51

00:32:29.000 Wade start?

00:32:29.000 Like 60s, right?

00:32:30.000 From the 1960s.

00:32:32.000 1970.

00:32:33.000 70-something.

00:32:33.000 From then until now, until Trump banned abortion, what national crisis has arisen?

00:32:39.000 Has there been a national crisis because all of these babies have been aborted?

00:32:43.000 55 million souls that never had a chance to live.

00:32:46.000 That's beyond a national crisis.

00:32:49.000 We didn't lack scientists or politicians because of unborn babies.

00:32:54.000 How do you know?

00:32:57.000 So you know all 55 million identities and what they could have achieved in their dreams?

00:33:01.000 I mean, at some point you have to take a step back and say, boy, when 55 million people never had a chance at life, that's kind of dark.

00:33:08.000 What does that say for a society?

00:33:10.000 55 million, I don't know if all of them wanted to have an abortion, but millions of women didn't want to be pregnant and were forced to continue being pregnant against their will. 1.00

00:33:22.000 Again, we're going in circles, but outside of rape, if you don't want to get pregnant, then save yourself for marriage and stop having so much sex with everybody. 0.93

00:33:29.000 And certainly, do not murder babies as an excuse for your gratuitous sex. 0.99

00:33:33.000 We've been here for 15 minutes. 0.97

00:33:35.000 Thank you so much.

00:33:35.000 Next question.

00:33:36.000 Thank you.

00:33:37.000 Thank you.

00:33:38.000 I don't know if we made any progress on that, but we definitely tried.

00:33:41.000 Next question.

00:33:42.000 Yes.

00:33:43.000 Hello, Charlie Kirk.

00:33:44.000 I hope you have some fiery responses for me.

00:33:47.000 I don't know about that.

00:33:48.000 Before I ask my question, I just wanted to say to the vegan conservative wherever he is, I thought he had some great moral points, but I do still love meat, even though I think he's right.

00:33:56.000 But anyway, I consider myself a proud American patriot, and my question for you revolves around January 6, 2021.

00:34:05.000 You would consider Donald Trump to be the law and order president or candidate, I would assume, from what you've said in the past.

00:34:12.000 How do you feel about Donald Trump commuting the sentence of Dominic Pozzola, who was the man who stole a riot shield from a police officer on the Capitol grounds and was the first person to enter the Capitol by using said riot shield to break through a window in the Capitol?

00:34:27.000 I don't like what he did, but why did Trump commute him?

00:34:31.000 I don't know.

00:34:32.000 Because there was a deprivation of basic due process rights.

00:34:36.000 What was that deprivation of due process?

00:34:38.000 Well, a lot of them, first of all, some of the January 6th defendants...

00:34:41.000 We're talking about Dominic Bozzola right now, who was on camera stealing a riot shield breaking through a window.

00:34:46.000 I let you talk, so let me talk, right?

00:34:48.000 Some of the January 6th defendants were in pretrial detention for nearly two to three years.

00:34:53.000 They were not given proper examination of the prosecution's evidence.

00:34:58.000 If you believe in the principle that a rotten tree bears rotten fruit, the entire prosecution of the government around January 6th...

00:35:06.000 Was politically motivated, was basically a hit job from the inception, where basic human rights were deprived of many of these January 6th defendants.

00:35:14.000 I don't know the specifics of this case, but I can almost guarantee you he was not given a fair trial in Washington, D.C. to be able to have all of the evidence presented as any other American deserves in that kind of a setting.

00:35:28.000 Are you familiar at all with the results from the January 6th committee?

00:35:32.000 Yeah, I'm in it, actually.

00:35:33.000 Have you read it?

00:35:34.000 I read my part.

00:35:35.000 Have you read the part about the Proud Boys and their plans?

00:35:38.000 Just so we're clear, the January 6th committee that got preemptive pardons from Joe Biden on the last day because they were so worried that they were going to go to jail for the rest of their life?

00:35:45.000 Does that entirely invalidate everything that they found?

00:35:47.000 It does make you wonder, why did they need pardons if you were just a January 6th committee?

00:35:53.000 Like, that's kind of weird, right?

00:35:54.000 I don't really see why that matters.

00:35:55.000 I think it matters a lot.

00:35:57.000 It's kind of bizarre.

00:35:58.000 That does not dispute the actual evidence, the text messages they found.

00:36:01.000 That were between members of the Proud Boys that were coordinating what they were going to be doing on January 6th.

00:36:06.000 So let me ask you, what do you think happened on January 6th?

00:36:10.000 I think that Donald Trump had a plan for months before January 6th.

00:36:15.000 I'm sure you're aware of the false lace of electors that he sent to seven different states.

00:36:19.000 Again, I've been through this so many times.

00:36:22.000 It's like, yeah, sure, I think I'm going to be answering this question in like 2076.

00:36:26.000 I'm telling you guys.

00:36:27.000 As you should be, because it was a stain on American history.

00:36:30.000 So, I mean, yeah, you know what was a stain on American history?

00:36:33.000 The fact that Joe Biden let 14 million people across our border and called it, like, diversity is our strength.

00:36:37.000 Joe Biden also gave us a booming economy.

00:36:38.000 Oh, he was really a booming...

00:36:39.000 Donald Trump is currently tanking our economy and also tanked our economy in 2020 when COVID hit.

00:36:45.000 And he locked down this country.

00:36:46.000 All those school closures that you were complaining about were done by Donald Trump.

00:36:50.000 So, if Joe Biden's economy was so great, then why was Kamala Harris afraid to run on it?

00:36:56.000 I don't really care for Kamala Harris. 0.88

00:36:57.000 I think Joe Biden was a great American president.

00:37:00.000 I don't think Kamala Harris... 1.00

00:37:01.000 Wait, hold on.

00:37:01.000 Hold on.

00:37:02.000 So, do great American presidents pardon their whole family the last hour of their presidency?

00:37:07.000 I think you do.

00:37:08.000 And you have criminals like Donald Trump who are going in saying that we are going to weaponize the Department of Justice to go after people like Hunter Biden.

00:37:15.000 Criminals.

00:37:16.000 Yeah.

00:37:17.000 Wait a second.

00:37:18.000 So, Donald Trump... 0.92

00:37:20.000 Donald Trump is a criminal because he was charged and found guilty of multiple crimes. 0.93

00:37:23.000 Oh, you mean the New York stuff? 0.68

00:37:25.000 Oh, so you mean that we just shouldn't trust any judicial system unless it's done by the people that we are in favor of?

00:37:31.000 Well, so tell me the details.

00:37:33.000 What exactly was his crime that Alvin Bragg prosecuted?

00:37:35.000 I'm not here to talk about that.

00:37:36.000 I'm here to talk about the January 6th crimes that you were trying to deflect from.

00:37:39.000 Hold on a second.

00:37:40.000 I could talk about January 6th all day long, and I support President Trump's pardons.

00:37:43.000 But let's go back, because you said Trump was a criminal.

00:37:45.000 Since you don't know, it was the falsifying of business records.

00:37:49.000 It was the falsifying of business records.

00:37:53.000 It was the falsifying of business records to cover up a crime.

00:37:55.000 What was the crime?

00:37:56.000 I don't really care about that.

00:37:57.000 Yeah, the prosecution didn't know either because they literally said, we can't tell you what crime that they were covering up.

00:38:02.000 So they can't even tell you what the crime that Donald Trump committed.

00:38:05.000 And now it has been downgraded to a misdemeanor.

00:38:07.000 Alvin Bragg literally had to invent a crime that has never been tried before in American history.

00:38:12.000 And Donald Trump faced 700 years in federal prison because of Jack Smith and January 6th cases and all that.

00:38:19.000 And still, despite all of that...

00:38:21.000 Donald Trump won the popular vote and 312 electoral votes.

00:38:24.000 It's funny how that works, isn't it?

00:38:26.000 That's wonderful for you, but I don't see how that changes anything that happened on January 6th.

00:38:31.000 Well, so I am curious, though, about the...

00:38:34.000 We got to this part because...

00:38:35.000 Do you think it was an insurrection?

00:38:39.000 I think that the act Donald Trump did beforehand was an insurrection.

00:38:42.000 I don't think what happened on January 6th was an insurrection.

00:38:45.000 I think it was the delaying of the peaceful transfer of power, which has not happened in American history before.

00:38:50.000 Again, it's just, we're on such different planets.

00:38:52.000 There is no evidence whatsoever.

00:38:54.000 That's because I actually believe what I'm saying, unlike what I would assume you do.

00:38:57.000 You think I don't believe what I'm saying?

00:38:58.000 I think there's a lot of things you don't.

00:39:00.000 Oh, really?

00:39:01.000 It's interesting.

00:39:02.000 You can, like, read my mind and see my spirit.

00:39:05.000 Honestly, it's even scarier to think that you believe what you're saying, because it's so insane.

00:39:08.000 Like, it's not a shtick.

00:39:10.000 I was able to actually watch what happened on January 6th and feel disgusted, where you think those were just American patriots protesting the election?

00:39:17.000 No, I mean, again, I don't like people that assault police officers or damage windows, but you can agree that 95% of the people that faced federal prison time were nonviolent offenders that were welcomed into the Capitol building by police officers and said, come on in, come on in, that did nothing except go and say a couple prayers.

00:39:34.000 How does that negate in any way the people who actively broke in and were the first ones inside of the building?

00:39:38.000 Well, hold on.

00:39:39.000 It was such an overemphasis of using the FBI Department of Justice statute of interference of the delay of a certification of congressional results that you had people that were just like everyday Jones.

00:39:51.000 They launched the largest manhunt in history.

00:39:55.000 The FBI's number one priority on their website was not the cartels.

00:39:59.000 It was not fentanyl.

00:40:01.000 It was not inner-city gang violence.

00:40:02.000 It was, let's go find all the January Sixers that went in.

00:40:06.000 And did non-violent offenses.

00:40:07.000 Don't you think there's something wrong with that?

00:40:08.000 How does that have anything to do with Donald Trump pardoning all the violent offenders on January 6th?

00:40:13.000 Okay, I can go back to that.

00:40:14.000 As I said, the legal system itself deprived him of, deprived many of these people of basic declaration of constitutional rights.

00:40:27.000 Trump wanted a clean slate, and that is why he did it.

00:40:29.000 So for the people who committed violent crimes, that's just perfectly fine because they did it for him?

00:40:35.000 I'm not justifying what they did.

00:40:36.000 I'm saying it is an indictment.

00:40:40.000 Yes, in fact, he cares about law and order so much that if somebody doesn't have attorney-client privilege, which was broken, if somebody does not have Fifth Amendment rights or Sixth Amendment rights, then that is an indictment of the entire Biden Department of Justice system.

00:40:53.000 And he, as president, has the pardon power to wipe that slate clean.

00:40:57.000 I'm glad he did.

00:40:57.000 Thank you for your time tonight.

00:40:58.000 Thank you.

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00:41:34.000 Hey, Charlie.

00:41:35.000 Before I ask the question, I just want to say on behalf of everyone here, thank you so much for coming out.

00:41:41.000 I think we all appreciate it.

00:41:43.000 Um...

00:41:43.000 APPLAUSE Thank you.

00:41:47.000 I tend to be pretty economically free market oriented, and so maybe you know where this is going.

00:41:52.000 I have a question on the tariffs.

00:41:54.000 In all fairness, I don't fully know where you stand on this.

00:41:57.000 I do think you're broadly...

00:41:58.000 In support of the tariffs.

00:42:00.000 But I had a couple of questions on that.

00:42:02.000 First of all, what do you think of how the Trump administration and Trump in particular squares the idea that a trade deficit broadly means that we're getting ripped off or he's equated these in the past?

00:42:14.000 For example, you have a trade deficit with your grocer.

00:42:16.000 We have a trade deficit with maybe Madagascar.

00:42:18.000 I don't really see why that means we're getting ripped off, per se, because...

00:42:23.000 Our market's just far bigger.

00:42:25.000 We have a lot more people that want stuff from there.

00:42:27.000 I don't see why that's an issue.

00:42:29.000 Yeah, that's a good question.

00:42:30.000 I mean, a trade deficit is also a capital account surplus, as you know.

00:42:33.000 The biggest issue with trade deficits is industrial policy.

00:42:37.000 If you can't make your own drones, if you can't make your own pharmaceuticals, if you can't make your own vitamin C, then you're not a nation.

00:42:44.000 You're basically a colony.

00:42:46.000 You're a de facto consumer state.

00:42:50.000 What President Trump is attempting to do with tariffs...

00:42:52.000 Is a fundamental contention that if you can't make and design your own physical products, your own hardware, then you fail to be a country in the 21st century.

00:43:01.000 Especially when we are reliant on our number one enemy, the Chinese Communist Party, to make all those products ourselves. 0.95

00:43:08.000 So what I think you're going to start to see, you're going to see deals struck with Japan, South Korea.

00:43:13.000 You're going to start to see them marching in.

00:43:15.000 The market was up today, it was down today, it's all over the place.

00:43:18.000 I think all of a sudden you're going to see China be the last one. 0.99

00:43:21.000 Where you're going to see tariff relief at a lot of our allies, as it should happen.

00:43:25.000 And by the way, just so we are clear, there's no reason why Europe should not buy more of our LNG.

00:43:31.000 There's no reason why Japan should not buy more of our energy.

00:43:34.000 There's so much...

00:43:35.000 Like, for example, Australia.

00:43:37.000 We have not imported any...

00:43:39.000 I know the vegans are not going to like this.

00:43:40.000 We haven't imported any of our beef to Australia over the last 20 years.

00:43:43.000 They have a huge tariff there.

00:43:44.000 It's a $27 billion beef industry.

00:43:47.000 We should be able to sell our products there as well.

00:43:50.000 And so, yeah, you can counter there.

00:43:52.000 Yeah.

00:43:52.000 On the national security front, I broadly agree, but then I have a couple of questions.

00:43:56.000 First of all, do you think that, so tariffing China, I completely understand. 1.00

00:44:00.000 What do you think of the idea that you tariff China and you tariff all these other nations, that's going to push them to be more, to establish more, like, stronger ties with China?

00:44:12.000 That is a risk.

00:44:13.000 That is a good point.

00:44:14.000 It is a risk.

00:44:15.000 I hope it doesn't happen.

00:44:16.000 I don't think it's going to happen.

00:44:17.000 Japan, for example, right now is doing the opposite.

00:44:19.000 Japan and South Korea are on planes right now, landing in D.C. in the next couple hours, coming and saying, please, America, let's get this done.

00:44:26.000 Let's drop the tariffs. 0.97

00:44:27.000 We want to work together.

00:44:28.000 And that should be the resolution.

00:44:30.000 Right.

00:44:30.000 And so I guess just one more point.

00:44:34.000 If it's to do with national security strictly, then why did we have an exemption on the tariffs for the Taiwan, the semiconductor stuff?

00:44:44.000 Because I feel like that would be the number one.

00:44:47.000 One of the number one national security interests.

00:44:50.000 But I guess that you might say that it's an interest in protecting Taiwan.

00:44:54.000 Oh, it's huge.

00:44:55.000 We by no means should try to impoverish Taiwan if we want to try to stick it to the Chinese. 1.00

00:45:00.000 But I do want to push back one other thing, and we'll get to the next question.

00:45:03.000 It's not strictly national security.

00:45:05.000 There is a point where when you are the incumbent economic power and you are in a trade deficit, you have an opportunity to force the other actors to redomicile some of their manufacturing.

00:45:16.000 Back domestically.

00:45:18.000 And that would be a good thing for this country.

00:45:19.000 Can I have one last question on South Korea, for example, where they're coming and they're striking? 0.73

00:45:24.000 We already had a free trade agreement in South Korea, so what would be the purpose of us imposing these huge tariffs on South Korea and then negotiating and coming back down to zero?

00:45:33.000 We're already at zero.

00:45:34.000 There's a lot of products we cannot sell in South Korea.

00:45:36.000 So there have been carve-outs and exemptions.

00:45:39.000 So part of it is a forcing.

00:45:40.000 So you can use tariffs for three reasons.

00:45:42.000 You can use it for national security.

00:45:44.000 You can use it for industry protection.

00:45:46.000 And Trump has created a third category.

00:45:48.000 You can use it for negotiation.

00:45:50.000 You can bring people to the table.

00:45:52.000 You can reevaluate.

00:45:53.000 You can get back down to brass tacks.

00:45:55.000 And I think we should consider permanent tariffs on certain industries that can last a long time, especially around drones, steel, critical manufacturing, tanks, things that China should not be making for us.

00:46:10.000 There's no argument whatsoever.

00:46:12.000 As to why, if China just kind of cuts the cord, why we should be dependent on them. 0.82

00:46:17.000 Very smart question.

00:46:18.000 I think the goal should be this.

00:46:19.000 The goal should be balanced trade with our allies.

00:46:23.000 And the fact that the Chinese stock market is collapsing, honestly, it's well past time that we show that we are the dominant player in the world, and the Chinese Communist Party is the greatest enemy of the United States. 0.91

00:46:35.000 Thank you very much.

00:46:36.000 Appreciate it.

00:46:40.000 All right.

00:46:41.000 Disagreement?

00:46:41.000 Yeah, sure.

00:46:42.000 Hi, my name is Samantha.

00:46:44.000 I just want to say, like, excuse me for, like, looking at my phone for notes.

00:46:47.000 No worries.

00:46:47.000 Whatever.

00:46:48.000 I want to talk about, like, have a good discussion about abortion.

00:46:51.000 Okay, we're going to keep it shorter, if that's okay, because we did...

00:46:54.000 Half an hour thought of a guy.

00:46:55.000 Yeah, yeah, sure.

00:46:56.000 I'm currently agnostic, like, normatively.

00:46:58.000 I'm leaning towards prone choice and the virtue of the facts that I take it that pro-life views ultimately fail in accounting for, like, relevant data, being, like, the facts of the conversation, like, biological, philosophical, and identity information.

00:47:10.000 And I'm not convinced that identity is reductible down to the physical properties or the organism.

00:47:14.000 I think we are our mind.

00:47:16.000 Are we just a mind?

00:47:19.000 What do you mean?

00:47:20.000 You tell me.

00:47:21.000 You're making the contention.

00:47:22.000 I think our identity is down to our mind, yes.

00:47:26.000 Just consciousness or the mind?

00:47:28.000 You had to explain what you mean.

00:47:29.000 Yeah, the mind is just going to be like sentience.

00:47:31.000 Okay, so what's your contention?

00:47:33.000 I think they fail because I don't think that the being, like one is at conception, is the same being that they are now.

00:47:39.000 And I don't mean that descriptively.

00:47:41.000 I take it that you are like your mind.

00:47:43.000 And before a certain week in gestation, there was no mind or sentience, right?

00:47:46.000 And thus no person, just physical properties, and that would eventually be informed by that said mind.

00:47:52.000 Okay, yeah, I'm not totally following what you're saying because you're using the word mind, which is not usually a word.

00:47:57.000 Yeah, I just said that mind is like sentience, like having a human subjective experience.

00:48:01.000 So what is your contention then?

00:48:03.000 That you're not persuaded by?

00:48:04.000 Yeah, I'm not persuaded by pro-life views that we are reductible down to our organism.

00:48:09.000 Okay, yeah, so an 85-year-old in an old person's home that has Alzheimer's, are they less of a human than you?

00:48:14.000 I didn't say that they were less of a human for having Alzheimer's.

00:48:17.000 Answer the question, because they have...

00:48:18.000 Yeah, so...

00:48:19.000 People with Alzheimer's still have the capacity for subjective experience.

00:48:22.000 They can't remember anything?

00:48:24.000 Memory isn't sentience, no.

00:48:27.000 It's a part of sentience, isn't it?

00:48:28.000 Yeah, I'm not going to say that the full capacity for sentience is going to be what grants them that moral consideration.

00:48:34.000 I'm telling you that any level of sentience, which is why I hold a cautionary principle, but at any level of sentience is going to grant them moral consideration.

00:48:42.000 When does human development begin?

00:48:44.000 What do you mean?

00:48:45.000 Human life?

00:48:45.000 Human development.

00:48:46.000 It's going to be at conception, yeah?

00:48:48.000 That's human life.

00:48:49.000 Yeah, human life begins at conception.

00:48:51.000 I'm not contending that.

00:48:52.000 No, no, got it.

00:48:52.000 So then shouldn't our laws then protect the first possible moment of human development?

00:48:57.000 Why should they?

00:48:58.000 Well, because it's a human life.

00:49:00.000 That's begging it, the question.

00:49:02.000 Well, no, it's actually not.

00:49:03.000 No, you're just telling me what the human is.

00:49:04.000 You're not telling me, like, why they should deserve rights.

00:49:07.000 Oh, so, like, why murder is bad?

00:49:08.000 Like, do we need to do that?

00:49:09.000 You're going to have to explain as to why, like, abortion is going to be the unjustified and unaliving.

00:49:13.000 You're just telling me that it's, because murder is inherently unjustified.

00:49:16.000 You're just telling me that it's inherently unjustified.

00:49:19.000 You're going to need to tell me why it's unjustified.

00:49:20.000 Well, personally, I think murder is wrong is pretty intuitive, right?

00:49:24.000 Yeah, it's intuitive, but you're going to need to tell me why abortion fits within that unjust category.

00:49:27.000 Okay, because you're your own unique deoxyribonucleic acid at the time of conception.

00:49:32.000 Yes, DNA.

00:49:34.000 Thank you.

00:49:34.000 Yes, when you attach to the uterine wall, and the moment at that time, your life began when your DNA was formed.

00:49:41.000 Absent intervention, you then form into a fully developed adult, and you do not have a right to interrupt the development of another human being.

00:49:52.000 You do not have a right to interrupt a six-month-old or a six-year-old from growing or flourishing.

00:49:58.000 You do not have a right to be able to do that.

00:50:01.000 That is a basic, self-evident moral principle that just because you are larger or just because you're older, you're able to interrupt another human being from growing.

00:50:11.000 Yeah, I didn't say any of that, but sure.

00:50:13.000 So do you think that...

00:50:14.000 Okay, well, I don't really know what you did say, actually.

00:50:17.000 That's okay.

00:50:18.000 Do you?

00:50:19.000 Yeah.

00:50:20.000 So what did you say?

00:50:21.000 Yeah, so I said that we're reducible to our mind.

00:50:24.000 Our mind is what makes our identity.

00:50:26.000 And I said my contention was that we are not reducible to this, like, organism.

00:50:30.000 All right, yeah, again, so we have clarity but not agreement.

00:50:32.000 We believe you're more than just consciousness.

00:50:35.000 We believe a human being is, in essence, valuable because it is a human being.

00:50:39.000 This deduces back...

00:50:41.000 What do you mean by being?

00:50:43.000 What do I mean by a human being?

00:50:45.000 Yeah.

00:50:46.000 A homo sapien?

00:50:47.000 Okay, sure.

00:50:48.000 I was asking simply because some people denounce being to be personhood.

00:50:52.000 That's all I'm asking.

00:50:53.000 Are you familiar with a partial molar pregnancy?

00:50:57.000 A partial molar pregnancy?

00:51:00.000 Yes.

00:51:01.000 A partial molar pregnancy is where one egg drops and two sperm go in. 0.80

00:51:05.000 It's going to basically create this ball of fat, but it's still going to be human, alive, and obviously of the human species.

00:51:13.000 Should the mother be obligated to carry that partial molar pregnancy? 1.00

00:51:16.000 I don't know enough about that.

00:51:18.000 Okay.

00:51:19.000 So, I can get back to you on that one.

00:51:21.000 Okay, sure.

00:51:22.000 Do you think, what do you like value, do you value it being like a human being?

00:51:27.000 Yes, human beings inherently are valuable.

00:51:30.000 Yeah, why are they inherently valuable?

00:51:32.000 Well, you want my religious definition, or do you want my biological one?

00:51:36.000 Either one's fine.

00:51:37.000 Okay, well, I believe every human being is made in the image of God, and therefore it's uniquely designed and crafted and created.

00:51:45.000 And since every human being...

00:51:47.000 Is made in the image of God.

00:51:49.000 We do not have the authority, morally, to destroy another being that bears the image of the creator.

00:51:56.000 Okay, sure.

00:51:57.000 Yeah, so the idea, I believe, that God grounds this intrinsic value in a fetus, I don't think satisfies that.

00:52:05.000 Human, yeah.

00:52:06.000 I'm using them colloquially.

00:52:07.000 I'm not using them to dehumanize.

00:52:08.000 I'll use child, baby, whatever.

00:52:10.000 Because intrinsic value is also expected under, like, the atheistic.

00:52:15.000 Like, hypothesis.

00:52:17.000 So, I don't know what kind of argument you're making here because, unfortunately, God itself is just not going to ground that a fetus is inherently valuable.

00:52:25.000 Okay, you asked for my scriptural analysis.

00:52:28.000 Yeah, and I have contention with it.

00:52:30.000 It is grounded under atheism, too.

00:52:33.000 Right, so therefore, okay, if you would agree that your life is valuable, my life is valuable, yeah?

00:52:38.000 I believe we're valuable because of our sentience, yeah, sure.

00:52:41.000 Okay, yeah, so we disagree.

00:52:42.000 But if a being...

00:52:44.000 Is going to get sentience in a couple of weeks, shouldn't you allow that being to continue to develop?

00:52:50.000 After it's born?

00:52:51.000 No, no, no.

00:52:51.000 In utero.

00:52:53.000 In utero, no.

00:52:54.000 I don't find it to be morally considerable before sentience.

00:52:57.000 Oh, got it.

00:52:57.000 So you can eliminate anything even though it's growing towards sentience.

00:53:01.000 Yeah, so are you making like a potential argument?

00:53:03.000 Well, I'm just making a rather rational one.

00:53:06.000 Just so we are clear, just, you know, when a baby is born, your mental faculties of a baby are not completely sentient.

00:53:12.000 Like, for example, When a baby is five days old, they're only awake like two hours a day.

00:53:16.000 They can't speak.

00:53:17.000 They cannot really reason.

00:53:19.000 And sentience is like barely there for a one-week-old or a two-week-old.

00:53:24.000 In fact, a brain is not fully developed until a boy is 30 years old.

00:53:29.000 So what I'm saying is that the growth of the human being continues all throughout this process if you allow that process to go uninterrupted.

00:53:37.000 The abortionist argument is that we are going to interfere with that development.

00:53:42.000 Because of some convenient, it's too hard to raise the human being.

00:53:48.000 Okay, yeah, so I think you're making this, it has the potential to actualize sentience, sure.

00:53:54.000 But also, if it's going to gain sentience in three weeks, I just said no.

00:53:58.000 It's not going to be morally considerable to not be unalived, or killed, sorry.

00:54:03.000 But, yeah, so I kind of forgot one point that you made.

00:54:08.000 What was it?

00:54:11.000 So just so we are clear, humans are bodies and minds.

00:54:15.000 We are more than just...

00:54:17.000 I remember the point that you made about the baby.

00:54:19.000 Yeah, so we gain sentience in the womb.

00:54:22.000 Are you aware of that?

00:54:23.000 Yeah, around eight weeks, nine to ten weeks, brainwaves are detected.

00:54:27.000 What's the argument for nine to ten weeks?

00:54:28.000 Brainwaves?

00:54:29.000 Yeah, brainwaves.

00:54:30.000 Okay, you're a little snarky.

00:54:32.000 You've got to calm it down a little bit.

00:54:33.000 Okay, cool.

00:54:34.000 So around nine to ten weeks, brainwaves are detected.

00:54:38.000 A baby can respond to a mother's voice around 27 weeks.

00:54:42.000 Around 20 weeks, we have some understanding that a baby's cognitive ability is being formed.

00:54:47.000 These are approximations.

00:54:49.000 What is the argument that brainwaves are sentient?

00:54:54.000 What is the...

00:54:55.000 We actually don't know.

00:54:56.000 We're inferring it.

00:54:57.000 Yeah, so sentience is going to be the subjective experience where you can have interest, desires, and motivations.

00:55:01.000 And I find it that...

00:55:02.000 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:55:03.000 How do you know a newborn has interest, desires, and motivations?

00:55:06.000 Yeah, so I find it that they have the subjective experience.

00:55:08.000 And I said it can include things like interest, desires, which is going to include people like you or me, and we have interest, desires, and motivations.

00:55:15.000 Yeah.

00:55:15.000 So I also find it that they're going to have a subjective human experience at...

00:55:20.000 I'd say within the second trimester.

00:55:22.000 I don't hold 20 to 24 weeks or after that.

00:55:26.000 I hold a 12-week cautionary stance because we know that they don't gain sentience in the first trimester.

00:55:31.000 Let's do this all the way.

00:55:32.000 You want to go all the way on this?

00:55:33.000 Let's do it.

00:55:34.000 What proof do you have that anyone is sentient?

00:55:36.000 Yeah, so we have proof that they're sentient on the basis of their thalamocortical connections and their conjunctions with their cerebrum.

00:55:43.000 It's a faith claim.

00:55:45.000 Are you going to make an argument for that?

00:55:46.000 Yes, definitionally you don't know that anybody else is sentient except yourself.

00:55:50.000 How?

00:55:50.000 Because you cannot prove consciousness.

00:55:52.000 We don't know where consciousness exists in the brain.

00:55:54.000 How far don't we know?

00:55:55.000 We can't.

00:55:55.000 We don't know where it is.

00:55:56.000 You can't see somebody else.

00:55:57.000 Are you going to expand on why we don't know?

00:55:59.000 Yeah, again, I'm getting there.

00:56:01.000 Like, did I teach you to talk like this at University of Illinois?

00:56:04.000 Like, you're paying for this?

00:56:05.000 Like, jeez.

00:56:10.000 Again, I want to get to the other questions.

00:56:12.000 But like, yes, this is called the consciousness paradox.

00:56:16.000 You do not know if anybody else actually has consciousness except yourself.

00:56:20.000 Everybody else could be an illusion.

00:56:21.000 It could be a mirage.

00:56:22.000 It could be a projection of artificial intelligence.

00:56:26.000 Sentience is, by definition, a faith claim.

00:56:29.000 We can guess it.

00:56:30.000 We can infer it.

00:56:31.000 You cannot measure it, and you cannot see it.

00:56:34.000 Yeah, sure.

00:56:34.000 I'm going to make the claim on the basis of, like, it...

00:56:37.000 I didn't agree.

00:56:38.000 I was just saying, okay, sure.

00:56:39.000 But anyways, so I'm going to make the claim on the basis of empirical data that we have thalamocortical connections that work in conjunction with our cerebrum that is going to allow us to have thoughts, desires, and motivations and have the human subjective experience, which the mind sentience is what makes us able to have complex intelligence and higher rationale as humans.

00:57:01.000 Right.

00:57:02.000 Again, so all of that, you could detect the effects of...

00:57:05.000 Consciousness, you cannot actually see consciousness itself.

00:57:08.000 Does seeing consciousness matter?

00:57:11.000 We see it in their neurological structures and mechanisms.

00:57:14.000 Again, you see the effects of it.

00:57:15.000 We can keep on going in circles.

00:57:17.000 Of course, I believe sentience exists.

00:57:20.000 You cannot measure it.

00:57:21.000 You cannot see it.

00:57:21.000 Because there is no objective proof that somebody else is sentient except yourself.

00:57:27.000 You can just look at the effects of it.

00:57:29.000 But that's fine.

00:57:30.000 Again, we just disagree.

00:57:31.000 We as pro-lifers believe...

00:57:32.000 That in the essence of a human being is your value and your worth.

00:57:36.000 If a human being is at 1 week or 10 weeks or 12 weeks, the process of development starts at conception and goes all the way through.

00:57:43.000 Higher faculties, higher rationality is an added bonus alongside the growth curve of what it means to be a human being.

00:57:50.000 And you do not become more human because your IQ is higher or less human or if you have Down syndrome.

00:57:56.000 The spectrum does not work that way.

00:57:57.000 You're equally human all the way through.

00:57:59.000 Thank you very much.

00:58:00.000 I got to get to the next question.

00:58:07.000 Okay.

00:58:08.000 Hi, Charlie.

00:58:08.000 They just pulled me from outside, so I wasn't even prepared, but here I am.

00:58:13.000 So my question's on immigration.

00:58:15.000 Considering the U.S. has caused instability in a whole host of countries around the world that leads to violent conditions that people have to leave, and then they therefore come to the U.S., do you support creating faster past the citizenship and also keeping families together that here are in the United States?

00:58:37.000 Number one, no.

00:58:38.000 Number two, yes, keep families together by sending the whole family back to their country of order. 1.00

00:58:42.000 Thank you, man.

00:58:42.000 Thank you.

00:58:50.000 So if I understand you correctly, you don't believe in a faster path to citizenship?

00:58:54.000 Oh, goodness gracious, no.

00:58:55.000 Why is that?

00:58:57.000 Well, first of all, we have way too many people coming to this country right now. 1.00

00:58:59.000 Way too many people.

00:59:01.000 Okay, so considering the United States has always been a country of influx and not outflux.

00:59:06.000 Interesting.

00:59:07.000 Let's pause on that.

00:59:08.000 So would you say we're a nation of immigrants?

00:59:11.000 Absolutely.

00:59:11.000 I think we're a nation of settlers.

00:59:13.000 Sure.

00:59:14.000 I mean, we did start on colonization, absolutely.

00:59:16.000 Well, hold on, but what's the difference between settling and immigrating?

00:59:20.000 I think, well, the difference is if you're displacing the people that originally take that land, if you're using force to displace the people that you are now taking the land from.

00:59:30.000 Yeah, look, 99% of settlers that went west were not displacing anything.

00:59:33.000 They were going to barren, unlivable land like Oklahoma.

00:59:36.000 That's not true.

00:59:37.000 They displaced and killed thousands of natives.

00:59:40.000 That's not true.

00:59:41.000 Okay, some people did, but it's an insult to the millions of pioneers that went west, saying that they were all violent.

00:59:46.000 Many of these people were courageous, incredibly brave people.

00:59:49.000 Sure, because the United States government killed people for them so that they could then take the land. 0.62

00:59:53.000 Again, I don't want to divert away from the point of settlers or immigrants, but as a timeout, acting as if the Native Americans, who have been treated poorly... 0.88

01:00:01.000 As a side note, are nothing but peace-loving people.

01:00:03.000 They were a highly violent, incredibly tribal warfare people before the white man came to North America.

01:00:09.000 They were not living in harmony.

01:00:11.000 They were not just like all singing John Lennon songs walking through the hills.

01:00:14.000 Sure, I'm not saying that.

01:00:16.000 I know, but this idea that it was just a conflict of conquest or the white man always displacing them is a little bit of a misreading of history.

01:00:24.000 Secondly, but I think this is important.

01:00:26.000 We are not a nation of immigrants. 0.89

01:00:28.000 We are a nation of settlers that went to a barren land and built something new.

01:00:32.000 Immigrants have helped enrich the United States of America over 100 years.

01:00:35.000 But immigration is always a question of whether or not it benefits the home country.

01:00:39.000 If immigration ever gets to a place where you are not being benefited, where your schools are being overrun, or your wages aren't keeping up with inflation, or crime is going up, then you could turn down immigration and prioritize on the native-born families. 0.61

01:00:53.000 So you don't think that immigration is currently benefiting the U.S., is what you're saying?

01:00:56.000 No, not at all, actually.

01:00:57.000 I think that the 14 million people that Joe Biden led across the southern border has caused mass destabilization.

01:01:03.000 In fact, in downtown Chicago, there were black neighborhoods that were protesting against their schools being used as migrant shelters.

01:01:09.000 Because Joe Biden was sending these people in almost every major city across the country.

01:01:13.000 I think that the anti-immigration rhetoric you have is not new.

01:01:18.000 I think that you try to paint a picture of it being this current phenomenon that we're facing, but there's been rhetoric from your side for a long time, throughout the entirety of history.

01:01:28.000 If we look at the immigration policies in the U.S., even though Chinese immigrants built the entire Western Railroad, there was still the Chinese Exclusion Act because...

01:01:38.000 They were providing insane value to the United States, but we still had these exclusion acts because of xenophobic attitudes.

01:01:44.000 And so this is not a novel idea that immigrants are bad for the country.

01:01:50.000 So I'm interested in why you think that all of a sudden we need to change the way the United States works.

01:01:57.000 Well, first of all, immigration has gone in great influxes.

01:02:01.000 We basically turned off all immigration in the 1940s and 50s.

01:02:04.000 We had like net zero immigration for almost 15 years.

01:02:07.000 Most people don't even know that.

01:02:08.000 So we had Ellis Island in the early 1900s, and then we turned on the guzzle of immigration. 0.62

01:02:13.000 But let's be honest.

01:02:14.000 For 40 years, we have tried this mass immigration project for the last 40 years. 0.76

01:02:20.000 Has it worked?

01:02:21.000 Are we a more connected country?

01:02:23.000 Have middle class wages kept up?

01:02:26.000 Look at the material data.

01:02:28.000 Has immigration enriched the well-being of the United States of America, especially the last five or six years?

01:02:33.000 I would say, of course not, actually.

01:02:35.000 We're more divided, we're more factious, and we see this in almost every European country as well.

01:02:40.000 When you import a bunch of people that don't speak your language, that are from the Third World, all of a sudden you have mass destabilization happening in your country. 1.00

01:02:48.000 It's not a matter of being xenophobic.

01:02:50.000 Instead, it's a matter of being patriotic to your own country and your own citizens.

01:02:54.000 It's not about hating the foreigner.

01:02:55.000 It's about loving the citizen.

01:02:56.000 And your obligation is always to citizens first, not foreigners. 0.99

01:03:04.000 So you don't think that the MAGA movement has led to xenophobic attitudes at all?

01:03:09.000 I don't even know how to answer that.

01:03:11.000 Why not?

01:03:13.000 Well, because...

01:03:14.000 You have to first define what you mean by xenophobic attitudes.

01:03:17.000 I mean, just like you said, you said, I mean, we're living in a divided world.

01:03:22.000 You don't think that comes from people being anti-immigration?

01:03:25.000 No, I think it's the opposite.

01:03:26.000 I think when you allow a bunch of people that aren't native-born Americans too quickly, with no checks, no background, no idea who they are, and flood them into your towns, definitionally, diversity is not a strength when it comes to local community ties. 1.00

01:03:39.000 If you don't use it.

01:03:40.000 If you don't use it, I don't know that you're committed to finding its strength.

01:03:43.000 Hold on.

01:03:43.000 No, explain this to me.

01:03:45.000 This is a good question.

01:03:45.000 Yeah.

01:03:46.000 What country has ever grown stronger the more divided it's been?

01:03:51.000 None, but I'm not saying that we have to get more divided via immigration.

01:03:53.000 No, no, no, but diversity definitionally will divide you.

01:03:57.000 Unity unifies you.

01:03:58.000 You notice they never say unity is our strength.

01:04:00.000 They say diversity is our strength.

01:04:02.000 In fact, just so we are clear, there is nothing racist or xenophobic to say...

01:04:07.000 That you want your kids to be around people that speak English.

01:04:10.000 There's nothing racist to say that.

01:04:12.000 It actually means that you want to be able to communicate with your neighbor.

01:04:15.000 There's nothing racist and xenophobic to say, for example, we don't want to import people from a far-off distant land that don't share Western values, that don't treat women the same, that don't have the same respect for freedom of speech.

01:04:28.000 So what we see is the unraveling of the United States of America because a country is, again, just undoubtedly It is the people that inhabit it.

01:04:39.000 So you have to be very careful what people you allow into your country. 1.00

01:04:41.000 Sure, but I think that what you're talking about, this mass shift in American culture, is not happening.

01:04:47.000 I think you're fear-mongering.

01:04:49.000 And also, I think that the United States forever has been a mix of culture.

01:04:54.000 I don't really know where you can point to a time in U.S. history that hasn't included immigrants in its culture.

01:05:01.000 Again, from the 1920s and 1960s, we had...

01:05:05.000 Very little immigration in this country, nearly 40 years.

01:05:07.000 In fact, that is what largely led to us becoming a world superpower in the 1950s.

01:05:13.000 We had the Bracero program back then where we brought in tons of laborers from Mexico to the United States to work in agricultural, and that's how we fed the United States.

01:05:24.000 So I really don't think that you can say that.

01:05:26.000 It was very limited in scope versus what we see today.

01:05:30.000 But again, I will ask a more moral question.

01:05:33.000 Does a politician have first loyalty to his own citizens or to another country's citizens?

01:05:38.000 Absolutely.

01:05:38.000 I'm glad you brought this because I wanted to circle back to my original question about the United States creating instability in the rest of the world.

01:05:45.000 I do think that every single politician, like let's say I'm the Prime Minister of South Africa, you know, my...

01:05:51.000 Which is an incredibly anti-white country.

01:05:53.000 Like, oh my goodness. 0.90

01:05:54.000 Okay, anyway. 0.96

01:05:55.000 Dangerously anti-white. 0.91

01:05:56.000 Okay, anyway. 0.59

01:05:58.000 Do you know about that, by the way?

01:05:59.000 Apartheid, yes.

01:06:00.000 Oh, no, no, no, no. 0.99

01:06:01.000 It's like they're killing white people in the streets in South Africa. 1.00

01:06:05.000 They're stealing farmland. 0.98

01:06:06.000 If you don't know about that, that shows how the media is lying to all of you.

01:06:10.000 It is literally a mini white genocide happening in South Africa right now.

01:06:13.000 Yes, but I don't think that we should...

01:06:15.000 No, it's fine.

01:06:16.000 You brought up South Africa, not me, but yes.

01:06:18.000 That was just an example.

01:06:19.000 Anyway, let's stay on topic.

01:06:21.000 So let's say I'm the prime minister of a country.

01:06:23.000 I do agree with you that my first job is that country, for sure.

01:06:27.000 That's who I'm leading.

01:06:28.000 But considering the United States has created mass violence, instability, and poverty around the world, you don't think that we have some sort of obligation to the people who then have to flee from that?

01:06:38.000 No.

01:06:39.000 Why not?

01:06:41.000 Wait, hold on.

01:06:43.000 Well, why not?

01:06:44.000 Define your terms.

01:06:45.000 Where have we created mass stability?

01:06:48.000 I'll grant you Iraq. 0.78

01:06:49.000 That was a disaster.

01:06:50.000 Where else?

01:06:51.000 In all of Latin America, in different countries, in Africa.

01:06:56.000 Places like the Philippines that we colonize, Puerto Rico.

01:07:00.000 Have you not heard of the U.S.'s intervention in tons of different elections?

01:07:05.000 Yeah, I'm always so interested in this.

01:07:09.000 You can never blame those countries for not having their act together.

01:07:13.000 It's somehow America's fault.

01:07:14.000 Like, oh, it's America's fault that Nicaragua can't get its act together.

01:07:19.000 It's America's fault, even though we welcome Puerto Rico to become U.S. citizens. 1.00

01:07:24.000 Like, we've colonized them.

01:07:25.000 So here's the paradox.

01:07:26.000 You don't think that Puerto Rico was colonized?

01:07:28.000 No, no, no, no.

01:07:29.000 I'm saying no.

01:07:29.000 So if we don't help Puerto Rico, we're evil.

01:07:32.000 When they become a territory, we colonize them, and we haven't done enough.

01:07:36.000 It's like, which one is it exactly?

01:07:38.000 So the Puerto Rico was taken from the Spanish as a colony and used as a sugar farm for years, where the workers were paid less than a dollar per day to create sugar for the United States.

01:07:49.000 And it's not really about statehood or independence.

01:07:51.000 It's about letting Puerto Rico decide that for themselves.

01:07:54.000 And anyway, this isn't about Puerto Rico.

01:07:56.000 No, it's fine.

01:07:57.000 And more broadly, and I'll get to a couple final questions here.

01:08:01.000 I can sense that your problem is that, like, America's super successful and these other countries aren't.

01:08:06.000 And foundationally, it's rooted in envy, bitterness, and resentment because we are the world's superpower.

01:08:13.000 It's not because we've held anybody back.

01:08:15.000 It's because we've had incredible people, really good ideas.

01:08:19.000 So you don't think the U.S. has intervened in a negative way in other countries?

01:08:22.000 At times, yes.

01:08:23.000 At times, we've intervened very favorably.

01:08:26.000 Can you at least acknowledge at times that...

01:08:28.000 Sure, there has been aid, but there's also been terrible...

01:08:30.000 Not just aid.

01:08:31.000 South Korea exists because of American involvement.

01:08:34.000 Kuwait exists because of American involvement.

01:08:36.000 But it's not...

01:08:37.000 But to look at American accountability, you have to look at the whole of that accountability.

01:08:44.000 And to say that certain countries are less developed purely on their own fault is to ignore history.

01:08:51.000 So that's where we disagree.

01:08:53.000 Countries have to take responsibility for their own future.

01:08:56.000 Which again, this is one of the reasons why so many people hate Israel.

01:08:58.000 Every other country around there is like a third world country. 0.84

01:09:01.000 And Israel is super successful and super agentic.

01:09:04.000 And they're able to be like one of the wealthiest countries on the planet.

01:09:07.000 You've got to wonder, what is it that they're doing? 0.99

01:09:09.000 Oh, it's the Jews because they're stealing all this money. 1.00

01:09:11.000 No, actually they like work super hard and they don't believe in Islam. 0.98

01:09:16.000 And they actually, like, wow.

01:09:19.000 You mean that, like, every other Islamic country around you is like a third-world hellhole? 1.00

01:09:23.000 Have you ever been to those countries?

01:09:26.000 Actually, I have been to Israel, and I've been to the Palestinian Authority.

01:09:29.000 I've been to the West Bank.

01:09:31.000 I've actually visited it.

01:09:32.000 Even if I had, that doesn't mean what I'm saying is wrong, just for the record.

01:09:34.000 By the way, I encourage you to try to go to Lebanon or Syria.

01:09:37.000 Not exactly the Four Seasons, right?

01:09:40.000 So, not great.

01:09:42.000 And you don't think that U.S. intervention has anything to do with that?

01:09:44.000 Partially.

01:09:45.000 But again, to blame the evil U.S. intervention.

01:09:48.000 For every single problem, is at its core intellectually sloppy?

01:09:53.000 I don't think so, because the United States has two times the military of the rest of the world, and it has been in our DNA to intervene in a military way in other countries.

01:10:03.000 So to say, I mean, I know you believe in...

01:10:05.000 So I want to try to square this all together, but I've got to get another question, just to make sure I'm clear.

01:10:09.000 So you're mad at America for getting involved in other people's countries, right?

01:10:13.000 So America's bad for that. 0.98

01:10:15.000 But then you want everyone to come to America. 0.99

01:10:17.000 I thought America's bad.

01:10:19.000 I'm saying that the United States needs to be held accountable.

01:10:21.000 You can't meddle in other countries.

01:10:22.000 So we're held accountable by inviting the entire world here?

01:10:24.000 If you are going to mess up that country, you have to do something about it.

01:10:28.000 Oh, do something.

01:10:29.000 Invite them here.

01:10:30.000 Maybe, if you're the reason that they have to leave.

01:10:32.000 No?

01:10:33.000 That at its core, I'm glad you articulated it, is neoconservatism, which is invade the world, invite the world.

01:10:39.000 Which is that you don't support the invasion part of it, but somehow we have to invite the world to some sort of, like, mass penance.

01:10:45.000 So, but that's like, you invade and then say, oh, no, I don't support the invasions.

01:10:49.000 I'm just, I think you are overly ascribing fault to the United States of America, when in reality, it's these own broken countries that cannot get their own act together.

01:10:58.000 A great example is this, and I'll close with this.

01:11:00.000 El Salvador is actually safer than America.

01:11:04.000 It has...

01:11:05.000 Billions of dollars flowing into El Salvador.

01:11:06.000 Why?

01:11:07.000 Because they elected Bukele, who decided to go after MS-13 and clean up the streets of El Salvador. 0.99

01:11:12.000 Which, again, it was because they decided to do good things with massive action.

01:11:20.000 Countries can be wealthy.

01:11:21.000 Singapore is wealthy.

01:11:22.000 You could be a very wealthy country if you embrace Western market ideas, private property with low crime, and it's not always...

01:11:29.000 I mean, in the case of El Salvador, the United States was the reason that the country...

01:11:33.000 Broke down into gang warfare.

01:11:35.000 And now if you look at the way they were able to turn around, they had to declare a state of emergency just to be able to turn things around.

01:11:41.000 It's just like, this is where we're different.

01:11:44.000 Then we have to get going.

01:11:45.000 I look at America as a force for good.

01:11:48.000 You look at everything wrong and you say it must be America.

01:11:51.000 No, sir.

01:11:51.000 I'm looking at bad things that they have done and calling for accountability.

01:11:56.000 Okay.

01:11:58.000 Maybe we disagree.

01:11:59.000 I don't know.

01:12:00.000 I guess.

01:12:00.000 I think we're a wonderful country, and I think of a country as poor.

01:12:03.000 They're poor by choice, and they have to be able to get their act together, make better decisions, and stop acting like victims all the time.

01:12:09.000 Thank you very much.

01:12:10.000 The battle between good and evil seems to be escalating.

01:12:15.000 It is easy to blame politicians, government, or poor leadership, but behind all of that is a spiritual battle.

01:12:22.000 Pastor Alan Jackson's new book, Angels, Demons, and You, talk about the reality of this battle and the spiritual realm that exists around us.

01:12:32.000 It has a real impact on us every day.

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01:12:39.000 They actually exist.

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01:12:49.000 Angels, Demons, and You provides valuable insight, practical tools, and biblical truth to help you recognize the spiritual battle around us and become a difference maker in our generation.

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01:13:06.000 Hear from people whose faith directly impacts our culture on Pastor Alan's Culture and Christianity podcast.

01:13:13.000 Find it wherever you get your podcasts.

01:13:16.000 Yep.

01:13:18.000 Yep.

01:13:19.000 So, you can see how the mass deportations are extremely dangerous to our country morally, economically, and for how they allow for the erosion of our civil liberties.

01:13:25.000 How can you support the mass deportations and Trump's broader immigration policies?

01:13:31.000 I can provide several examples if you would like.

01:13:37.000 Okay.

01:13:38.000 What should the punishment be for when someone breaks into your country?

01:13:41.000 I think it's a civil violation.

01:13:43.000 What should the punishment be?

01:13:44.000 I think that you probably should find them, and I think you should know where they are, but I don't think you should put them in jail or necessarily deport them.

01:13:52.000 Okay, yeah, I mean, look, a very basic custom and principle is if you come into a country unwanted, unwarranted, uninvited, you return back to your country of origin. 0.79

01:14:01.000 Very simple, very morally clear.

01:14:03.000 When you caught in line and break into the United States, you do not get to stay here. 0.99

01:14:08.000 But not all of the people that you're calling illegal immigrants did that.

01:14:11.000 Some were granted TPS by Joe Biden, some were granted TPS.

01:14:14.000 Which they shouldn't have, of course.

01:14:15.000 Temporary protective status.

01:14:16.000 And by Donald Trump.

01:14:18.000 Should not have happened.

01:14:19.000 The law says you go back.

01:14:20.000 Just so we are clear, when you go into 18 U.S.C.

01:14:23.000 1312, it says as a punishment of remuneration, return back to your country of origin. 0.94

01:14:27.000 So you might not like the law.

01:14:29.000 The law itself says return back to your country of origin.

01:14:33.000 If you're looking at the law, does it say for Mahmoud Kamil, he was Khalil?

01:14:38.000 Oh, that's time out.

01:14:39.000 That's a whole different category.

01:14:40.000 So can we now agree mass deportations are good? 0.99

01:14:42.000 Because that's how you started.

01:14:43.000 No, no.

01:14:44.000 So tell me why they're wrong.

01:14:46.000 I think they're wrong.

01:14:50.000 Yeah, of course.

01:14:51.000 No, I don't agree with that.

01:14:55.000 Hey, you said no heckling.

01:14:57.000 It says no heckling.

01:14:57.000 He just did a Nazi salute.

01:14:59.000 Yeah.

01:15:00.000 Do you want to come up here and talk?

01:15:02.000 Come on up, tough guy.

01:15:04.000 Come on.

01:15:06.000 You want to come up here, tough guy?

01:15:08.000 Mr. Hey, stop.

01:15:11.000 USA!

01:15:17.000 It's okay.

01:15:18.000 We'll allow him to finish, and then the machiso man can finish us off. 0.98

01:15:23.000 No, no, no.

01:15:24.000 Whichever.

01:15:24.000 You guys can rock, paper, scissors for it.

01:15:26.000 I don't care.

01:15:28.000 Sorry, man.

01:15:29.000 I was just saying that that's Nazi America. 0.84

01:15:33.000 Oh, it's Nazi America. 0.94

01:15:34.000 Yes, that's Nazi America. 0.80

01:15:35.000 To return people that break into your country back home? 1.00

01:15:38.000 No, no, man.

01:15:39.000 I mean, I'm just saying, like, because, like, mass deportation really just is, like, cleansing the land.

01:15:46.000 No, it's not.

01:15:46.000 It's restoring the law.

01:15:48.000 Yeah, man, but law is not a moral compass.

01:15:51.000 Yes, it is.

01:15:51.000 Justice is greater than the country, greater than money, greater than God.

01:15:56.000 Justice is the human universe.

01:15:58.000 Justice is not greater than God.

01:15:59.000 What are you talking about?

01:16:00.000 Yes, it is.

01:16:01.000 You're tripping, bro.

01:16:03.000 Let me ask you a question.

01:16:05.000 If someone breaks into your country, what should the punishment be?

01:16:09.000 I was going to give you a different question, man.

01:16:11.000 Well, I just answered it.

01:16:12.000 You said we're Nazi America.

01:16:13.000 So tell me, if someone breaks into the United States, what should the punishment be?

01:16:18.000 I wouldn't say he's breaking in most of the time.

01:16:21.000 No, it is.

01:16:22.000 I would say, like, I mean, dude, because, like, if other countries are economically bad and they're coming here, like, they want to come here and work.

01:16:30.000 It doesn't matter.

01:16:30.000 If someone goes and robs a 7-Eleven, you don't get, like, a lesser penalty if you're broke.

01:16:35.000 What is wrong is wrong regardless of your socio-economic status.

01:16:39.000 I get you, man.

01:16:39.000 No, I get you.

01:16:40.000 But, like, law is not a universal, like, thing.

01:16:42.000 No, they are.

01:16:43.000 No, that's not correct.

01:16:44.000 We believe, as Christians and in the West, in an axiological truth which that every human being has written on their heart some form of right or wrong.

01:16:51.000 It is inherently wrong to steal their people's stuff.

01:16:53.000 It's inherently wrong to walk into people's homes uninvited.

01:16:56.000 It's inherently wrong to go after somebody and harass them or whatever.

01:16:59.000 So it's a universal law that you don't get to go places where you aren't invited.

01:17:03.000 You agree?

01:17:04.000 Like to show up to a wedding uninvited, that's a wedding crasher.

01:17:07.000 To show up into a home that you weren't invited, that's a squatter.

01:17:10.000 We have terms in our own moral compass where that is not okay.

01:17:14.000 How is it any different when someone shows up into your country uninvited, unwarranted? 0.95

01:17:18.000 How is that morally permissible?

01:17:21.000 My boy, I really wanted to ask you a different question, man.

01:17:24.000 Okay, well.

01:17:25.000 I'm sorry.

01:17:25.000 I would not...

01:17:27.000 It's okay.

01:17:30.000 I want to ask you...

01:17:32.000 Do you think it's okay for us to proclaim ourselves land of the free with the world's highest prison population?

01:17:38.000 Oh, we don't have enough prisoners.

01:17:40.000 Huh?

01:17:41.000 Yeah, we don't have enough prisoners.

01:17:43.000 So we're not land of the free?

01:17:45.000 Well, no.

01:17:46.000 In fact, we remain free because people remain in prison.

01:17:49.000 Do you know that half? 0.99

01:17:50.000 No, you can laugh.

01:17:51.000 You're tripping, bro.

01:17:52.000 You know half of all murders in Chicago go solved?

01:17:55.000 I'm sorry?

01:17:56.000 Half of all murders in Chicago go solved.

01:17:59.000 Half of people that kill other people in Chicago walk free.

01:18:02.000 Should they be in prison? 1.00

01:18:03.000 What about the dirty pigs that kill people? 1.00

01:18:06.000 Wait, hold on. 1.00

01:18:07.000 You mean police officers?

01:18:08.000 Yes.

01:18:09.000 Whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:18:10.000 Hold on.

01:18:11.000 First of all, let's give it up for our wonderful police here tonight.

01:18:13.000 Let's give it up for them.

01:18:21.000 Hold on.

01:18:23.000 How many...

01:18:26.000 People die from unarmed police incidents every year.

01:18:30.000 How many unarmed people are killed by the police every year?

01:18:33.000 I mean, dude, we're like...

01:18:35.000 Yes.

01:18:36.000 We're up there, bro.

01:18:38.000 We're like ranked number seven in the world.

01:18:41.000 About 15 people a year that are unarmed, killed by the police.

01:18:45.000 We're ranked seven in the world, killings by cops.

01:18:49.000 We're the only industrialized nation in that list, man.

01:18:51.000 I know how violent we are.

01:18:53.000 Do you know who's doing the killing? 0.55

01:18:54.000 I'm saying death by cops.

01:18:55.000 It's not police.

01:18:56.000 No, no, no, no, no, no.

01:18:57.000 It is not police.

01:18:58.000 Now, there's two types of police killings. 0.96

01:18:59.000 There's justified and unjustified.

01:19:02.000 Unarmed people killed by the police, it's 10 to 15 a year.

01:19:04.000 But if a police officer sees somebody showing up with a gun, they better pull out a gun and defend themselves.

01:19:09.000 That's a justified police killing.

01:19:12.000 Can I say something to you?

01:19:14.000 You won't?

01:19:16.000 How are we, like, how do we proclaim to be, like, Second Amendment conservatives?

01:19:22.000 Don't laugh at me, bro.

01:19:24.000 So how do we proclaim to be like that, dude?

01:19:27.000 I'm sorry, what?

01:19:27.000 How do we proclaim to be, like, conservatives, Second Amendment, gun-loving people?

01:19:33.000 But, like, we give, like...

01:19:38.000 How do I say it?

01:19:39.000 I mean, I completely disagree that police and military should not be the only ones with guns.

01:19:44.000 Would you agree with that?

01:19:46.000 I'm sorry, what do you...

01:19:47.000 No, citizens should be able to own guns.

01:19:49.000 Citizens should be able to own guns?

01:19:51.000 Yes!

01:19:52.000 So why would I have to call the cops if I got my own gun?

01:19:56.000 You know what I mean?

01:19:58.000 You don't have to.

01:20:00.000 What's the point?

01:20:01.000 But you called the cops pigs when cops in most cases are not actually responding to violent crime.

01:20:08.000 They're responding to domestic abuse incidents.

01:20:10.000 They're responding to carjackings.

01:20:12.000 They're responding to businesses being broken into.

01:20:15.000 Cops have like the hardest job in America right now. 1.00

01:20:18.000 And they're treated like trash, and they're called pigs by people like you. 0.99

01:20:26.000 And let's just be honest. 0.99

01:20:28.000 Even though you call cops pigs, if you got attacked here on this campus, you would call the cops very quickly to go save you. 0.96

01:20:34.000 No, no. 0.97

01:20:35.000 Oh, yes, you would.

01:20:35.000 I invite anybody to attack me.

01:20:38.000 I invite anybody to attack me.

01:20:40.000 Anybody could get it.

01:20:41.000 And by the way...

01:20:41.000 These hands are ready for everyone.

01:20:43.000 And the cops would help him.

01:20:46.000 No, they will not help you.

01:20:47.000 Probably not.

01:20:48.000 Hold on, but just so we are clear, you asked the question, you know, the prison population.

01:20:53.000 Do you know that the average rapist only serves four years in prison in this country?

01:20:58.000 That the average person that has second-degree murder only serves about 15 years in this country?

01:21:03.000 There are not enough people in jail.

01:21:05.000 We need more and more people to be incarcerated.

01:21:08.000 Violent crime is under-incarcerated in this country.

01:21:12.000 What about rehabilitation?

01:21:14.000 Well, can you rehabilitate a murderer?

01:21:19.000 I mean, a lot of you veterans come back.

01:21:21.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:21:22.000 Like, can you rehabilitate them to come back?

01:21:24.000 Whoa.

01:21:25.000 So, you think that...

01:21:30.000 So, it's okay. 0.99

01:21:32.000 It's okay to kill. 0.99

01:21:33.000 It's okay to kill people outside the country and then come back in? 0.99

01:21:39.000 A theater of war in an act of self-defense is a morally different universe than going and just plowing and gangbanging in the south side of Chicago.

01:21:49.000 But we were just saying that we wouldn't, like, you wouldn't allow a draft.

01:21:52.000 Would you be okay with a draft?

01:21:53.000 With what?

01:21:54.000 Would you be okay with a draft nowadays?

01:21:56.000 Not in today's America.

01:21:58.000 But it was fine during World War II.

01:22:01.000 But I just, it's...

01:22:05.000 I'm not even sure where to start or where to end on this, but you're a very morally confused person.

01:22:11.000 Thank you.

01:22:20.000 I want to ask you something else.

01:22:22.000 And then I got to get to the guy I cut off.

01:22:24.000 I'm really sorry to interrupt everything, you know.

01:22:26.000 Because you don't like people that cut in line, which is why we should deport people that cut in line in our country, because cutting in line is wrong.

01:22:35.000 Can I please get one more Charlie?

01:22:37.000 Because line cutting goes against something we all know in our own being.

01:22:42.000 Ha! 0.89

01:22:43.000 He didn't wait his turn. 0.87

01:22:44.000 He started to scream like a spoiled brat saying Nazi America. 0.79

01:22:48.000 And he wanted attention. 0.66

01:22:50.000 And that should not be rewarded.

01:22:52.000 And shame on me for rewarding it.

01:22:54.000 But our immigration policy should be, hey, you don't get to cut in line.

01:22:58.000 You've got to wait your turn.

01:22:59.000 I have to ask you something else.

01:23:03.000 Do you...

01:23:09.000 So much for free speech.

01:23:11.000 Let me ask one more question, please, guys.

01:23:13.000 All right.

01:23:14.000 Dude.

01:23:15.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:23:17.000 Free speech.

01:23:19.000 Free speech, whether you like it or not.

01:23:22.000 All right.

01:23:22.000 Anyways, can I ask you something?

01:23:25.000 So, dude, if we were to consolidate all the police budget in the country, it would make the second greatest military...

01:23:33.000 Are you okay with that?

01:23:34.000 We need more police.

01:23:38.000 When we have police on the streets, crime goes down.

01:23:41.000 There is a police enrollment issue in Chicago Police Department.

01:23:45.000 There are ungoverned areas.

01:23:47.000 There are ungoverned areas in the city of Chicago where police are not even go, and there are poor girls that are gunned down by crossfire gun traffic and fire. 0.98

01:23:55.000 We are about to enter the bloodiest summer in Chicago's history, and the police are not to blame.

01:24:00.000 The police, you know what the police operate as?

01:24:02.000 They come and just bring body bags and they don't even intervene.

01:24:05.000 In fact, Brandon Johnson, who will go down as one of the worst politicians in American history and the worst mayor in Chicago's history, that good-for-nothing, petulant Marxist, he removed shot detectors from the streets of Chicago that would have increased police response time by nearly 10 minutes because he said they were racist.

01:24:25.000 Police save lives every single day.

01:24:27.000 It's just that if they are...

01:24:29.000 You know, they are ranked second in the world with this.

01:24:32.000 If the police budget is number two in the world to be the greatest military, I would think they're like the internal occupying army in the U.S. It's not just people of color, man. 0.98

01:24:41.000 It's going to get to you guys too, man.

01:24:43.000 Like, for real.

01:24:44.000 No, it actually won't because we followed the law.

01:24:45.000 Do you follow the law, actually?

01:24:47.000 You seem so worried about the police.

01:24:48.000 Like, what are you involved in?

01:24:49.000 Law is not the moral compass.

01:24:51.000 Like, I would smoke weed before it was legal.

01:24:53.000 You know what I'm saying?

01:24:54.000 Yeah, again, so we massively expanded police in the 1990s.

01:24:58.000 America had less crime.

01:25:00.000 And then as we increased more and more, police, even black America, flourished. 0.93

01:25:03.000 After 2015, the Ferguson lie, we retreated police.

01:25:06.000 2020, we retreated police even further.

01:25:09.000 And crime has gone up in black neighborhoods in particular. 0.59

01:25:11.000 And it is a tragedy. 0.63

01:25:13.000 More police equals less crime for all colors.

01:25:16.000 Police are heroes for putting their lives on the line for all of us.

01:25:20.000 I think there's some horrible trade-offs.

01:25:21.000 Thank you.

01:25:23.000 Last question.

01:25:24.000 Thank you very much.

01:25:26.000 I will not be bailing you out sometime soon.

01:25:29.000 Yes.

01:25:30.000 Final question.

01:25:31.000 Yeah, do you want to get back to the guy?

01:25:34.000 Okay.

01:25:36.000 I'm sorry.

01:25:39.000 All right.

01:25:46.000 The mass deportations are extremely dangerous to our country, morally, economically.

01:25:51.000 And how they allow for the erosion of our civil liberties.

01:25:53.000 How can you support the mass deportations and Trump's broader immigration policies despite his lies, disinformation, and inherent contradictions with his other actions?

01:26:00.000 I mean, again, I've kind of been through this.

01:26:02.000 You come into the country illegally, you should be returned back to your country of origin. 1.00

01:26:04.000 That's how I can support it.

01:26:05.000 I think that it should matter the context for why the person is coming.

01:26:08.000 For example, we have asylum seekers, and the processes, they're supposed to go into the country and then claim asylum.

01:26:13.000 That is international law, and if you are being threatened in your home country, you should claim asylum for your life and the life of your family.

01:26:20.000 We should not necessarily inherently turn those people off.

01:26:22.000 First of all, our asylum process is a total sham.

01:26:24.000 But let's take that moral standard that you have set.

01:26:27.000 That's an opinion.

01:26:28.000 You're going to state that's an opinion.

01:26:29.000 No, it's not an opinion.

01:26:31.000 The left has damaged it, where in six years you get a court date, You get like a piece of paper to notice, and you get put into the interior of the country, and we never hear from you again.

01:26:40.000 It's five or six scripts that people are taught to recite.

01:26:42.000 You save these five or six words, you say poof the magic words, and you're released into the interior of the United States.

01:26:47.000 You get a phone, you get benefits, and we never hear from you again.

01:26:50.000 But let's just take that moral standard, and we'll close with this.

01:26:53.000 Because I think it's a great defining distinction of conservatives and people that, I don't want to say are on the left, but wherever you might be.

01:26:59.000 You say we should take into account when people come into this country illegally. 0.93

01:27:03.000 Yes?

01:27:04.000 Correct?

01:27:05.000 That was, yeah.

01:27:07.000 Okay.

01:27:07.000 If somebody were to rob a grocery store or a convenience store, do we take into account their life story when they commit a crime?

01:27:17.000 I mean, we take into account their age and other factors around it.

01:27:20.000 Yeah, we do.

01:27:21.000 So basically, if somebody is super poor and can't feed their family...

01:27:25.000 No, we do do that, though.

01:27:26.000 If someone has practiced good behavior, that's why we have character references.

01:27:30.000 We do that for criminal justice.

01:27:31.000 No, that's what you said.

01:27:32.000 We're taking their life into account.

01:27:34.000 Is it justifiable to commit a crime based on the suffering you might be having?

01:27:39.000 I'm poor.

01:27:40.000 I can go rob a convenience store.

01:27:42.000 I mean, that's your own moral judgment.

01:27:43.000 It depends. 0.99

01:27:44.000 I think that if you would die... 0.92

01:27:46.000 Oh, it depends. 0.99

01:27:46.000 Wow. 0.99

01:27:46.000 No, no, no. 0.99

01:27:47.000 Listen to me.

01:27:47.000 I think that if you were going to die, if you did not steal a loaf of bread, it's okay to steal a loaf of bread.

01:27:53.000 I think that if you were going to break into another country because someone has a gun to your head or they're going to kill your family, it's okay.

01:27:58.000 And that's actually the opposite is happening on the southern border.

01:28:01.000 Instead, it's people paying the cartel to come into the United States of America, not the other way around.

01:28:06.000 But again, we do not look at things through a moral prism of victim and victor.

01:28:10.000 Like, oh, these are a bunch of victims.

01:28:12.000 We look at things through right and wrong, moral and immoral, and just and unjust.

01:28:16.000 And it is unjust to show up to a country uninvited.

01:28:20.000 And plead, you know, third world poverty and say, here are the five magic words, and poof, you come into the United States of America.

01:28:26.000 Citizenship must be earned.

01:28:27.000 It must be something that you prove over a period of time that you are invited into the country.

01:28:32.000 And we as native-born Americans have every right to decide who comes into the United States of America.

01:28:37.000 And finally, that's why the people overwhelmingly voted for Trump.

01:28:40.000 Because we are sick of seeing citizenship thrown around like Frisbees to every person around the world.

01:28:45.000 You just monologue.

01:28:46.000 Can I respond at all?

01:28:47.000 Yes, and then we're over time.

01:28:49.000 Then we've got to wrap up.

01:28:50.000 Okay, do you then think it's okay to deport the illegal immigrants without due process? 0.89

01:28:56.000 They get due process.

01:28:58.000 No, no, no.

01:28:58.000 They do not get due process.

01:28:59.000 They do not get to prove that they are citizens when they've been deported.

01:29:02.000 That's why an American citizen was deported, and that's why...

01:29:05.000 No, he wasn't.

01:29:06.000 This is a fraudulent lie.

01:29:08.000 I'm trying to help you.

01:29:09.000 An American citizen was not deported.

01:29:11.000 You are wrong.

01:29:12.000 That is a complete fabrication.

01:29:14.000 That's not an American citizen. 0.74

01:29:15.000 I was saying both.

01:29:16.000 No, hold on.

01:29:17.000 He was an illegal immigrant.

01:29:19.000 That had pre-trial detention.

01:29:21.000 No, no, no.

01:29:22.000 Mahmoud Kamil or the guy in Maryland?

01:29:23.000 I'm not talking about Mahmoud Kamil.

01:29:25.000 There's a guy in North Carolina.

01:29:26.000 The guy in Maryland, I think you're talking about, was not an American citizen.

01:29:30.000 We have not deported any U.S. citizens.

01:29:32.000 That is not correct.

01:29:34.000 Period.

01:29:34.000 End of story.

01:29:35.000 And so, again, you can nitpick on all the elements of it, but fundamentally, a nation is allowed to expel people at their own choosing.

01:29:43.000 You do not have a right to just come squat in America and say, well, I'm here now.

01:29:47.000 Too bad.

01:29:48.000 No, we can kick you out as quickly as we choose.

01:29:50.000 You do not get the same constitutional rights as U.S. citizens.

01:29:53.000 Period.

01:29:54.000 Can they vote?

01:29:56.000 Can they vote?

01:29:58.000 Can they own a firearm?

01:30:01.000 Can they own a firearm?

01:30:02.000 Not every right has been applied equally.

01:30:03.000 Ah, so they don't get every right.

01:30:04.000 Not every right has been applied equally.

01:30:05.000 But the Supreme Court, am I correct or am I incorrect?

01:30:08.000 Depends what you mean by due process.

01:30:10.000 Due process can be a 20-second thing.

01:30:12.000 Show me your paper.

01:30:13.000 Hold on.

01:30:13.000 Not necessarily.

01:30:15.000 Just so we are clear, what you are proposing means that 14 million people would have to get trial dates over the next four years.

01:30:20.000 Yes?

01:30:21.000 I think we should increase the amount of immigration.

01:30:23.000 No, no, no.

01:30:23.000 Let's just play this out.

01:30:24.000 It does not need to be over the next four years.

01:30:26.000 Hold on.

01:30:26.000 But there's 14 million people.

01:30:28.000 You cannot break into this country and then demand a six-month trial before you send you back. 0.87

01:30:32.000 It is logistically and morally impossible.

01:30:35.000 And what it is, is it's throwing sand in the gears.

01:30:37.000 Morally impossible?

01:30:37.000 Is that what you said?

01:30:38.000 It's morally impossible.

01:30:39.000 What's morally impossible?

01:30:41.000 Morally impossible to say to the American people that you can't kick out people of your own country because you have to wait six months for all 14 million of them. 0.66

01:30:47.000 You have to allow them their due process.

01:30:48.000 That is a foundational part of our democracy.

01:30:51.000 Again, first of all, we're not a democracy.

01:30:53.000 We're a republic.

01:30:54.000 I don't want to get into this all over again.

01:30:55.000 But again, this due process is being used as a weapon against the process of deportations.

01:31:02.000 Mass deportation.

01:31:04.000 A six-month trial for every single person is an intentional tactic.

01:31:08.000 To slow this down.

01:31:09.000 Not to mention, many of these people already have had trials.

01:31:12.000 They've had two trials, three trials, four trials, five trials.

01:31:16.000 Many of them.

01:31:17.000 Again, what you are saying is you are hiding behind the Fifth Amendment.

01:31:21.000 I'm hanging behind.

01:31:22.000 It's one of our constitutional rights.

01:31:24.000 For U.S. citizens.

01:31:25.000 No, it's for everyone.

01:31:27.000 So, really, Chinese citizens get the Fifth Amendment rights. 0.96

01:31:32.000 For U.S. citizens.

01:31:33.000 They were all U.S. citizens.

01:31:34.000 It's a human right only for Americans? 0.98

01:31:36.000 That doesn't make sense.

01:31:36.000 It's a human right.

01:31:37.000 It applies to all humans.

01:31:38.000 If somebody magically transports into the United States of America.

01:31:43.000 We do not believe they get the same.

01:31:44.000 Yes, we do.

01:31:45.000 That's what the Constitution says.

01:31:46.000 No, it does not.

01:31:47.000 Again, if you don't believe me, look this up.

01:31:51.000 This is also why we are going and revisiting the birthright citizenship, because we don't believe birthright citizenship applies to everybody under the 14th Amendment.

01:32:01.000 It's as simple as this.

01:32:03.000 Are they citizens?

01:32:04.000 No.

01:32:05.000 They are not citizens.

01:32:06.000 Then we could support them to their home countries at our own choosing.

01:32:10.000 He's lying.

01:32:11.000 He's lying to you.

01:32:12.000 Hold on.

01:32:12.000 I'm not lying.

01:32:13.000 The Immigration Naturalization Act, the repelling of the Alien Invasion Act, all of them point towards one simple thing, that we can accelerate the deportation of foreign invasions and foreign invaders. 0.69

01:32:24.000 And it's funny.

01:32:25.000 I've been now doing this campaign.

01:32:27.000 It's very funny.

01:32:28.000 I've been doing this tour now for two weeks, and I can tell you, everybody, more macro, what's happening.

01:32:32.000 All of a sudden, people that have never said a single thing about due process the last five years or ten years are popping up.

01:32:38.000 I'm going to tell you what's going on on the left.

01:32:40.000 Because they'll only use the Constitution if it fits their political agenda.

01:32:43.000 They never used due process when they went...

01:32:45.000 Let me finish.

01:32:46.000 They never used due process when they raided Trump supporters' homes.

01:32:49.000 They never talked about due process.

01:32:51.000 Let me finish.

01:32:51.000 Instead, all of a sudden, when a bunch of MS-13 and Trendy Aragua members are getting deported back to their country of origin, they're big defenders of the Constitution.

01:33:00.000 It is an intentional ploy and weapon to stop mass deportations and we will not fall for it.

01:33:05.000 We are over time.

01:33:06.000 Thank you guys so much.

01:33:07.000 Thanks for being here.

01:33:08.000 Thank you.

01:33:10.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

01:33:11.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:33:14.000 Thanks so much for listening and God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - May 04, 2025

Can Charlie's Home State Prove Him Wrong?

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