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00:02:02.000But what if we look back and we realize we were just inches away from victory and that's when we decided to give up?
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00:03:53.000Your reaction to the now public documents of how the FBI handled the Mar-a-Lago raid.
00:04:01.000So, Charlie, in its simplest and factual reality, and this is a reality check for your listeners.
00:04:10.000When the FBI is the lead law enforcement agency that is going to go out and execute a search warrant, an arrest warrant, make an unannounced visit, meaning something that's going to rise to the level where someone is going to be apprehended.
00:04:28.000It is required of all the men and women that are employed in the FBI as sworn law enforcement officers that they must prepare what is called an op plan or an operations plan.
00:04:41.000That op plan is usually prepared at least several days before the execution of the arrest warrant or the search warrant.
00:04:51.000That op plan will be disseminated to your first line supervisor is if he or she signs off on that, it then will be routed up to what is called an ASAC, better known as an assistant special agent in charge.
00:05:08.000If given some sensitivity or some high-profile case, that op plan will then be routed even further up beyond an ASAC to a SAC or better known as a special agent in charge of that particular division.
00:05:33.000They address the names of the subjects and or targets, the locations, the nearest trauma hospitals, whether or not there will be other agencies that are tagging along or assisting the FBI.
00:05:48.000It will identify whether or not there will be SWAT that will be assisting, whether or not there will be a breach necessary to gain entry, whether or not there needs to be local law enforcement notified at the time of the execution.
00:06:05.000There's a whole host of fill-in-the-blanks to include a narrative.
00:06:10.000I can tell you without hesitation and without reservation that if you were an agent and were to go out and execute a search warrant or an arrest warrant or something of the like without preparing an ops plan, you would be the subject of what is considered an OPR investigation.
00:06:26.000That's an office of professional responsibility investigation where you would be subject to suspension.
00:06:33.000I can tell you that what happened at Mar-a-Lago was routine, normal, nothing out of the ordinary.
00:06:39.000Now, I know that my colleague and my friend Dan Bongino, who I hold to the highest esteem, let me be clear.
00:06:48.000The Secret Service in connection with the execution of the search warrant was not the lead law enforcement agency conducting that investigation.
00:06:56.000That was solely under the purview and the jurisdiction of the FBI.
00:07:00.000And so the Secret Service would not have had any input.
00:07:03.000Now, if the FBI was assisting the Secret Service in a Secret Service investigation, then the FBI would be shown, would show deference to however the Secret Service wants to carry on their investigative steps.
00:07:18.000But when the FBI is the lead law enforcement agency carrying out whatever it is, there will always be an op plan in place.
00:07:26.000So does the, I'm just asking, I mean, do you think we should trust the FBI?
00:07:31.000So let me be, Charlie, you know, a lot of people ask me that.
00:07:35.000The men and women of the FBI, and that is 99.99% of the men and women of the FBI get up each and every day, are the most trustworthy human beings on this planet.
00:08:26.000When you bring up the execution, and I'm not sure if it was the arrest warrant or the search warrant that was conducted with Oliver Stone down in Parkland or Broward County, and they tipped off CNN.
00:08:41.000And so the news media was there prior to the execution.
00:08:47.000I find that reprehensible because that's the type of conduct that erodes the confidence and just as you are suggesting, the trust in the FBI.
00:08:57.000But I can tell you that the FBI extended numerous attempts to Trump's camp to try to get an understanding and control of the materials that they knew were being stored at Mar-a-Lago.
00:09:15.000Unfortunately, and I don't hold the former president responsible for this.
00:09:19.000I quite frankly think that he had bad counsel, bad legal advice.
00:09:24.000And they decided that it was in the president's best interest to perhaps create more of a stonewall instead of trying to cooperate fully with the FBI.
00:09:33.000And when that line finally was drawn in the sand, the FBI made a decision, whether right or wrong or just from the optics, that they were going to go in pursuant to a search warrant because they felt that the people on the president's side of that communication was no longer trustworthy to rely upon the cooperation that they believed was necessary in turning over all the documents.
00:09:58.000And that's where it starts and that's where it ended.
00:10:02.000So just to be clear, I want to be understand, if the FBI is full of all these courageous people, why do they keep on raiding homes of like grandmothers and like going into, you know, pro-life warriors, you know, full guns ablazing?
00:10:15.000Where are these courageous FBI agents that just say, I'm a conscientious objector.
00:10:20.000I refuse to do the Gestapo work of an illegitimate regime.
00:10:23.000So, and Charlie, that's where I will take exception as to making that type of statement.
00:10:29.000I can tell you firsthand that I've been on too many search warrants and too many arrest warrants where the mundane or the routine, unfortunately, can get the best of any agent or any law enforcement officer.
00:10:45.000There are many people that you would go and knock on their door, not ever suspecting that they would be capable of grabbing a knife or a weapon or some other means of some other instrumentality to hurt you.
00:12:00.000And so to some extent, I agree with what your assertion is.
00:12:04.000And I can tell you that the men and women of the FBI that are present and former are at times disgusted by at least the optics that have been played out all too often.
00:12:17.000But again, the men and women, they're employees.
00:12:42.000They want their pension more than they want a country or to actually be able to do what's right.
00:12:47.000I, in good faith, would not be able to kick down a door of an 81-year-old that went and prayed inside of the Capitol and then say, oh, well, you know, they're just doing their job.
00:14:34.000If you're going to say that the members of the FBI are these wonderful, courageous people, true courage is saying, I'm going to turn my back on my pension, my salary, because I do not believe in thuggishly raiding 82-year-olds' homes and calling them like domestic terrorists.
00:14:52.000Being real courage is being a whistleblower saying, I'm not going to be part of this.
00:14:55.000I'm not going to be part of an administrative state that targets political dissidents.
00:15:00.000I'm just, I'm not going to, I'm not going to play ball there.
00:15:03.000And this whole idea that they're just doing their job and these are honorable professionals.
00:15:07.000Do you know how many times we have found the FBI has abused the FISA statute?
00:15:11.000Oh, yeah, you know, they're honorable professionals or they're illegally spying.
00:15:16.000How many times that they have broken the law?
00:15:19.000And we have to just be told that these are honorable.
00:15:22.000I'm sure there are some honorable ones.
00:15:23.000The most honorable ones have come out as whistleblowers and have come out to Jim Jordan and are trying to actually keep the FBI to be a legitimate organization, not a secret police force designed by G.A.D. Grahoover.
00:15:36.000And of course, the DOJ sends these men and women into dumb and stupid investigations.
00:15:40.000And you might say, well, Charlie, what do you expect them to do?
00:15:43.000To be a conscientious objector, as I said, say, you know what?
00:17:00.000And, you know, someone just emailed us.
00:17:02.000They said, Charlie, love the interview.
00:17:03.000I'm a lot more offended by a dozen different J6 persons getting a SWAT team at 5 a.m. than I even buy the Mar-a-Lago, to be honest.
00:17:10.000And look, I think that was I was trying to get at with the previous guest: the Mar-a-Lago thing is fine.
00:17:16.000It does obviously upset me, but the mass weaponization of coming full force, full military macho style, like repelling down the side of homes because somebody went into the Capitol and prayed.
00:17:33.000We are entering territory here that is so dangerous.
00:17:36.000Not to mention, as I said, the FISA abuses and also the anarcho-tyranny, what the FBI is not doing right now.
00:17:43.000They're not going after these sleeper cells in the country, the disproportionate force against political dissidents.
00:17:49.000And I'm not even thinking about all the different ones off the top of my head, not to mention Peter Navarro, who's now rotting in a federal prison, Steve Bannon, who is facing federal prison time.
00:17:59.000Yes, this is all handled by law enforcement professionals.
00:18:02.000And I suppose the question is: when you're an FBI agent, do you swear an oath to the United States Constitution or do you swear an oath to the tradition of J. Erica Hoover and the secret police force?
00:18:41.000I'm not diminishing it, but I'm saying this country was built and this country was sustained by people who were willing to forego an easy lifestyle because they would not participate or be a co-sponsor in evil.
00:18:54.000They were willing to go say, I'm not, you know what?
00:18:57.000$80,000 a year, a nice pension waiting me.
00:18:59.000I'm willing to put that all at risk, all at jeopardy, because the country, the nation, the Constitution, my children matter more.
00:19:07.000And when you go in to like Mark Hauk's home in Kintersville, Pennsylvania, bearing weapons with his seven children, and you had 20 FBI agents raid, and Stewart says, well, you never know if they might grow a knife, you know, grab a knife or grab a gun.
00:19:23.000I just say, why are you raiding that in the first place?
00:20:59.000Yeah, you know, I was in court on Monday, Charlie, and it was pretty incredible.
00:21:03.000On cross-examination, Cohen admitted to numerous felonies.
00:21:07.000I mean, to grand larceny from the Trump organization, to financial structuring and violation of federal banking laws.
00:21:15.000I mean, the prosecution hasn't proven its case against President Trump, but there's definitely evidence of crimes being introduced in this trial, all really against Michael Cohen and some of the others.
00:21:27.000It was a stunning moment, and I hope the jury was listening because that seriously calls into question, obviously, Cohen's credibility, his testimony to the contrary.
00:21:37.000And it was just a really wild, crazy day in court.
00:21:53.000So, after Robert Costello's testimony ended yesterday, our side rested.
00:21:58.000We're now hashing out the details of jury instructions with Judge Murshon.
00:22:03.000We'll be back in court likely for closing arguments on Tuesday after Memorial Day.
00:22:10.000And then, after closing arguments, the judge will instruct the jury, and then the jury gets to go back and decide what to do with this case.
00:22:17.000Based on the evidence introduced, I think any fair jury would speedily acquit President Trump.
00:22:24.000There's no evidence really that President Trump did anything wrong, much less anything illegal.
00:22:29.000So, we're certainly hopeful for an acquittal here.
00:22:32.000And we'll see what the jury does after closing arguments on Tuesday.
00:22:36.000So, Will, I don't want to make any predictions here.
00:22:39.000I will say, though, and I know you have to be careful, I think this went pretty well.
00:22:46.000As far as the prosecution seemed to fumble, you guys did a wonderful job from a defense standpoint.
00:22:52.000And I mean, look, I still think that, you know, the jury is a New York jury, so you take that what it's will, or what it will.
00:22:59.000But Stormy Daniels didn't go well for them.
00:23:02.000Michael Cohen didn't go well for them.
00:23:03.000And can you also tell me how the judge prevented, was it Costello from taking the stand?
00:23:10.000Can you help explain how can a judge prevent a witness if the defense wants it?
00:23:17.000Is that, I guess he did take the stand, but he was also grilling him.
00:23:22.000What was what was, he just kept interrupting him.
00:23:24.000What give us all the details surrounding that?
00:23:26.000Yeah, Alan Dershowitz, who is actually one of my law professors who was in court with us on Monday as well, wrote a really good article about this.
00:23:36.000Basically, in a typical case, if you have a witness like Michael Cohen, you can introduce other witnesses.
00:23:44.000The defense can introduce other witnesses to rebut their testimony.
00:23:48.000The judge was very strict about limiting the scope of what Robert Costello was allowed to testify to.
00:23:59.000It certainly had the appearance of interfering with the defense's ability to make its case.
00:24:05.000Most of the key facts, though, still came into evidence.
00:24:09.000Costello rebutted important parts of Michael Cohen's story.
00:24:13.000He spoke to Michael Cohen's state of mind at the time that all of this was unraveling, basically that Cohen was manic, near suicidal, that Cohen had said he was willing to do anything to stay out of jail.
00:24:27.000So a lot of really important evidence still came in through Robert Costello.
00:24:32.000But Judge Murshon issued a number of evidentiary rulings limiting the scope of what Costello could testify to that had just a lot of the lawyers in the room and a lot of legal commentators really scratching their head.
00:24:47.000This is a tweet yesterday from Julie Kelly.
00:24:51.000One of Jack Smith's inquisitors, Julie Edelstein, tried to pressure former Trump attorney Tim Parlatore into disclosing privileged conversations to the president.
00:25:01.000This is unbelievable, lawless thuggery.
00:25:05.000Yeah, so this relates primarily to the Florida documents case.
00:25:10.000There have been a number of allegations there relating to the prosecution's attempts to pierce the attorney-client privilege.
00:25:18.000We've seen this with a number of former Trump attorneys.
00:25:21.000Parlatore is the subject of these recent accusations.
00:25:25.000There have been a number of others as well.
00:25:28.000It's really dangerous when you're in a place where the attorney-client privilege, which is at really the heart of a defendant's constitutional right to effective counsel, the attorney-client privilege dates back to English common law.
00:25:43.000This is a core feature of our legal system and a core protection for defendants that they be allowed to discuss legal matters with their attorneys without fear of that information coming out.
00:25:55.000It's clear that Jack Smith's team, in a number of ways, ran totally roughshod over privilege, attempted to get at these privileged conversations between President Trump and his attorneys, really attempted to run roughshod over President Trump's core constitutional rights.
00:26:12.000Judge Cannon has been increasingly frustrated.
00:26:17.000You can see this in just the way that she's handled that case down in Florida with the lawlessness exhibited by Jack Smith and his team of prosecutors, whether it's on privilege issues, evidentiary custody issues, misrepresentations that Jack Smith and his team have repeatedly made to the court about the evidence in the case.
00:26:37.000I mean, that case, which a lot of legal commentators said was the greatest risk to President Trump, I believe it's in danger of falling apart almost absolutely because of prosecutorial misconduct.
00:27:26.000The idea, you know, I'm a prose, I'm a former federal prosecutor.
00:27:30.000The idea that you would grand jury your target or your defendant's attorney, that you would bring the attorney into grand jury and then ask those sorts of questions about privilege and basically cast aspersions on the defendant based on a decision to not waive privilege.
00:28:11.000And as more of these grand jury transcripts have come out, we've seen more and more evidence of deep prosecutorial misconduct on the part of Jack Smith and his team.
00:28:22.000And so the recourse is, I mean, how do we, this is what gets me a little upset here.
00:28:29.000How does one hold a prosecutor accountable when they do things that are thuggishly illegal?
00:28:34.000I mean, I'm talking more broadly and more macro here.
00:28:37.000What is the standard operating procedure for going after the government when the government breaks the law or at least flirts with breaking the law?
00:28:45.000Well, first, I think that Judge Cannon, she could dismiss this whole case.
00:28:50.000That's a sanction that's applied in severe cases of prosecutorial misconduct.
00:28:57.000So the whole case against President Trump in Florida could easily be dismissed based on prosecutorial misconduct here.
00:29:05.000There's very, very serious allegations relating to the way that Jay Bratt approached Walt Nauda.
00:29:11.000That's President Trump's co-defendant's lawyer.
00:29:15.000Nauda's lawyer is a guy named Stanley Woodward, who alleged that Bratt basically threatened his career, threatened his job prospects if he couldn't get Nauda to cooperate.
00:29:25.000I mean, these are very, very serious violations of the way that prosecutors are trained to bring cases, of the way that prosecutors have to bring cases.
00:29:36.000Now, if the case is dismissed, I think President Trump would be well within his rights to bring a civil action against Jack Smith and his team for malicious prosecution, for abuse of process, for any number of other counts.
00:29:50.000And I think we need to look at just how we got to this place where a special counsel never confirmed by the Senate, I mean, just a lawless special counsel who I believe was unconstitutionally appointed to begin with, felt entitled to run roughshod over the law in this desperate attempt to get President Trump and interfere in the 2024 election.
00:30:12.000Yeah, Will, this is a structural issue, which is how does the citizenry actually be able to hold the thugs accountable?
00:30:21.000And I just don't know the answer to that.
00:30:26.000And it is sad because I wish our government was trustworthy.
00:30:30.000Please plug your run for attorney general in Missouri.
00:30:36.000Yeah, look, conservative grassroots all over the state are fired up.
00:30:39.000The campaign's been an incredible experience so far.
00:30:42.000We've driven about 42,000 miles at this point, just getting into every corner of the state, meeting with conservative groups, meeting with great conservative grassroots activists.
00:30:52.000I think we're going to take this state by storm this August.
00:30:55.000We're really excited for the road ahead.
00:30:57.000We're about 75 days out from our August 6th Election Day now.
00:31:01.000But more than anything, for me, the most rewarding aspect of this process has just been seeing how fired up and how tuned in conservatives across the state of Missouri are.
00:31:11.000I think we're ready to take our state back and we're ready to take our country back.
00:32:15.000Quote, the world is in flames and vitonomics is a complete and total disaster, the conservative influencer said during the episode of his podcast.
00:32:37.000And thank you guys if you want to subscribe to the podcast.
00:32:39.000Can be very unsettling, even if you are a conservative.
00:32:41.000In the past year, the founder of Turning Point USA has uploaded episodes of titles such as The Great Replacement Isn't Theory, It's Reality.
00:32:47.000The Doctor is Plotting to Mutilate Your Kids.
00:32:50.000He's also conducted friendly interviews with a blogger, Steve Saylor.
00:32:53.000Oh, yeah, you're not allowed to say that.
00:33:29.000So he probably did some research and he realized that what we have been able to do here on the landscape of this information war, praise God and glory be to God, thanks to the great partners at Salem Radio Network and all of our partners, is they have found we have found what they call advertisers that share our views.
00:34:17.000If you need a wellness kit, you can go to TWC.health/slash CJ.
00:34:25.000The point being in The Atlantic can't quite understand is how on earth are all these advertisers supporting the Charlie Kirk show and everything that's happening here.
00:34:33.000Well, first of all, we get real views.
00:35:53.000They got one thing right, which is among one of the most popular podcasts on the right, ranking among top 10 on Apple Spot, Apple, and Spotify.