The Charlie Kirk Show - Charlie Kirk Debates Trans Marxist Ben Carollo–Debate Night by TPUSA

00:00:00.000 Hello, everybody.

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00:00:05.000 Today is my conversation with a trans Marxist with a very squeaky laugh about American history, Marxism, and more. 0.99

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00:02:59.000 Welcome to another episode of debate night.

00:03:02.000 We're joined by founder of Turning Point USA, Charlie Kirk, and contributor for the Young Turks, Ben Carallo.

00:03:08.000 Tonight's topic is Marxism in America.

00:03:11.000 First, First question.

00:03:13.000 Ben, please provide your best definition of Marxism and what you believe about the topic at hand.

00:03:20.000 Yeah, most definitely.

00:03:21.000 See, when it comes to Marxism, a lot of people have misunderstanding, think that it's about particular policies.

00:03:26.000 But the reality is that it centers on the role of the state.

00:03:28.000 The belief that the state is an institution that exists to suppress the interests of one class or another, right?

00:03:34.000 Either under capitalism, that would be the dictatorship of capital, where capitalists suppress the interests of workers to the benefit of their profits.

00:03:42.000 Now, under Marxism, the state serves the purpose of basically serving the interests of workers to the benefit of, you know, well, to the benefit of the workers, to suppress the interests of the capitalists.

00:03:52.000 Because obviously, the very nature of capitalism is to lower wages, increase prices, and this has an inherent contradiction that basically squeezes the working class and it inevitably squeezes the capitalists themselves by leading to things like inflation and market crashes.

00:04:07.000 So really, the central theory of Marxism is the belief in a state that works to serve the interests of the working class, to suppress the interests of capitalism, and eventually get to the point where the need of the state itself is irrelevant.

00:04:22.000 Okay.

00:04:23.000 How much of that do you believe?

00:04:24.000 Oh, 100%.

00:04:26.000 All of it.

00:04:27.000 So you're just like a full-fledged Marxist?

00:04:29.000 100%.

00:04:29.000 So everything Marx wrote?

00:04:31.000 I mean, not necessarily every single word.

00:04:33.000 So I can understand, just so we can make this constructive.

00:04:36.000 Like, just tell me your political philosophy when it comes to Marxism.

00:04:39.000 Well, I think that really is my philosophy.

00:04:41.000 And we really have to look at not necessarily Marx, who's the theoretician, right?

00:04:46.000 Not even necessarily Engels.

00:04:47.000 We also have to look at the practitioners of Marxism, right?

00:04:50.000 So those people being like, obviously, Lenin, Mao, today.

00:04:53.000 Oh, you're a big fan of Mao.

00:04:55.000 Mao's a pretty interesting character.

00:04:56.000 How many people did he murder?

00:04:58.000 How many people did he murder?

00:05:01.000 I mean, how many people do you think he murdered?

00:05:03.000 How many people did he murder?

00:05:04.000 45 million, more or less.

00:05:06.000 And what are you getting that number from?

00:05:07.000 How about the Chinese people themselves?

00:05:10.000 Rough calculations of international organizations.

00:05:12.000 Mass graves.

00:05:13.000 What do you mean, the Victims of Communism Fund that literally puts out Nazi propaganda on a regular basis?

00:05:18.000 I'm sorry, wait.

00:05:18.000 The Victims of Communism Fund is a what group?

00:05:21.000 Puts out Nazi propaganda.

00:05:22.000 They literally have a statue.

00:05:24.000 I mean, you have to be joking, right?

00:05:25.000 You realize in the USSR, they list Nazi war deaths as victims of communism.

00:05:31.000 You're pro-Lenin, too?

00:05:33.000 Yeah, I mean, Lenin did a lot of really great things in the USSR.

00:05:35.000 They literally brought what was a feudal peasant society to be major world superpower. 0.97

00:05:39.000 How about the Ukrainian famine?

00:05:40.000 How is that?

00:05:41.000 What about the Ukrainian famine?

00:05:42.000 Like the six million people Lenin intentionally killed through forced starvation and famine?

00:05:46.000 I mean, it's pretty ridiculous to frame that as intentional, right?

00:05:49.000 Like, let's be real, right?

00:05:51.000 There was a famine, and we can argue about the mismanagement of famines, but capitalists mismanage famines all the time.

00:05:56.000 What is the problem?

00:05:56.000 Look at this Irish potato famine.

00:05:58.000 What's a kulak? 1.00

00:05:59.000 What do you think a kulak is? 0.53

00:06:00.000 I know what a kulak is. 1.00

00:06:01.000 You tell me.

00:06:01.000 You're the Marxist.

00:06:02.000 I want to know what you think.

00:06:03.000 A kulak is someone that owned a certain piece of land that was not allowed to own that same piece of land because of Lenin and Stalin's government.

00:06:08.000 And if they owned more than it, what happened to them?

00:06:10.000 And do you know what?

00:06:11.000 Okay.

00:06:12.000 Let's.

00:06:12.000 No, just answer the question.

00:06:13.000 I'm curious.

00:06:14.000 What did happen to them?

00:06:15.000 They went to a gulag.

00:06:17.000 Do you believe those exist?

00:06:18.000 Yeah, 100%.

00:06:19.000 How many people died in the gulag?

00:06:20.000 Do you know what a gulag?

00:06:21.000 No, just like more or less.

00:06:22.000 I just want to know.

00:06:22.000 Do you know what a gulag is?

00:06:23.000 Yeah, a forced labor camp, or it could be a forced death.

00:06:26.000 I mean, like the forced labor camps we have in the United States of America, which, by the way, the United States has more people under forced labor than any other country.

00:06:33.000 Where?

00:06:33.000 In our federal prison system, wait, hold on.

00:06:36.000 How'd they get to prison?

00:06:37.000 They committed crimes.

00:06:38.000 Oh, okay, so it's not forced.

00:06:39.000 They made a choice.

00:06:40.000 Are you familiar with the Google?

00:06:42.000 That's a phenomenal red herring argument you made.

00:06:44.000 I'm just curious.

00:06:45.000 I just want to know how many people died in the gulags.

00:06:47.000 No, no, no.

00:06:47.000 No, more or less.

00:06:48.000 I'm just curious.

00:06:48.000 How many people died in American prisons?

00:06:50.000 Hold on a second.

00:06:50.000 I'm just curious.

00:06:51.000 Gulags, how many people died?

00:06:52.000 I'm just curious.

00:06:53.000 Give me a number.

00:06:54.000 10 million, 15, 20, 25 million, 30 million?

00:06:56.000 You know, there's this really amazing anecdote.

00:06:58.000 It's really interesting.

00:06:59.000 You see, and 100,000.

00:07:00.000 No, no, no.

00:07:01.000 I want a number.

00:07:02.000 More or less.

00:07:03.000 Listen, listen.

00:07:03.000 Because let's talk about how they get these numbers, right?

00:07:05.000 This is a perfect example.

00:07:07.000 There's this really great story, right?

00:07:09.000 Where you have Winston Churchill talking to Stalin.

00:07:14.000 He asks, he asks, he's like, hey, how many people died in the famine?

00:07:18.000 And Stalin, obviously not wanting to talk about it, they had bigger things to deal with, like World War II.

00:07:24.000 He puts his hands up.

00:07:25.000 He puts his hands up.

00:07:26.000 And Winston Churchill walks away and says, oh, yeah, that means 10 million.

00:07:30.000 He must mean 10 million.

00:07:32.000 Now, we can obviously talk about mismanagement of famines, but if we're going to talk about mismanagement of famines, why don't we talk about the people in India that Winston Churchill killed?

00:07:39.000 Why don't we pop talk about that?

00:07:40.000 Yeah, so we're not, we're not here.

00:07:41.000 I'm happy to do a whole defense of the greatest man of the 20th century, Churchill.

00:07:44.000 I'm not going to actually do that right now.

00:07:46.000 So, was Alexander Solzhenitsyn a liar?

00:07:49.000 I don't know who that is.

00:07:52.000 You're kidding me.

00:07:53.000 You're a Marxist that don't know.

00:07:54.000 You do not know who Alexander Solzhenitsyn is.

00:07:56.000 He wrote a book called the Gulag Archipelago, which was a first-person account.

00:08:00.000 He actually was in a gulag.

00:08:01.000 Come on.

00:08:02.000 And you don't even know who he is.

00:08:04.000 You know that people that worked on I admitted that they just made up a lot of those numbers, right?

00:08:09.000 No, he lived in one, my friend.

00:08:10.000 There's a lot of people who lived in the gulags.

00:08:12.000 In fact, there's a really great.

00:08:14.000 Yeah, and so they're liars?

00:08:15.000 I mean, yeah, there's a lot of people.

00:08:17.000 Okay, so let me get this right.

00:08:19.000 Let me get this right.

00:08:20.000 So the pastor who spent a decade in a forced labor camp with one hour of sunshine a day, Joseph Bondarenko, he lied about that.

00:08:29.000 Because he wanted to just spread the gospel.

00:08:31.000 I'm curious, just kind of like what your belief is on gulags.

00:08:35.000 So we can just have like a similar.

00:08:36.000 Okay, I'll tell you, I'll give you a really great example, right?

00:08:38.000 And you see, the CIA actually ran numbers on this.

00:08:41.000 This is really interesting.

00:08:42.000 So somewhere around 10% of the people, right, that were in the gulags during their peak, which, by the way, was after a civil war in Russia, right, obviously with the white army that they had to deal with, right?

00:08:52.000 And then the World War II with Nazi Germany, right, were political prisoners.

00:08:57.000 But this is really interesting, right?

00:08:59.000 I believe it was in the Gorbachev years, they tried to do a big reformation and granted a huge amount of amnesty, granted a huge amount of amnesty to like tons and tons of people that were in those gulags.

00:09:09.000 And do you know what happened, Charlie?

00:09:11.000 Do you know what happened after that?

00:09:12.000 This is something that we have to say about the CIA documents literally.

00:09:15.000 I mean, after the liberalization of the USSR?

00:09:17.000 No, no, no.

00:09:19.000 What happened to the people that were let out of those gulags?

00:09:21.000 They wrote books like the Gulag Archipelago that brought down the USSR.

00:09:26.000 Most of them actually ended up right back in those same gulags because, this is to be very, very clear, that's their normal prison system.

00:09:33.000 That is the normal prison system that they had, just to be clear.

00:09:36.000 Because who do you think set up the gulags?

00:09:40.000 So you're trying to tell me that the people that were put in the prisons were not political prisoners?

00:09:43.000 No.

00:09:44.000 So what happened to the Mensheviks?

00:09:45.000 Most of the people.

00:09:46.000 The forced imprisonment of the Mensheviks.

00:09:48.000 Well, tell me what happened.

00:09:49.000 How did Trotsky die?

00:09:52.000 What do you mean this happened?

00:09:54.000 Yeah, who killed Trotsky?

00:09:56.000 Look, look.

00:09:57.000 No, no, tell me who killed Trotsky?

00:09:59.000 Are we going to talk about economic theory?

00:10:00.000 We will.

00:10:01.000 No, but no, I'm just curious, because I'm just trying to understand.

00:10:04.000 You say you're a Leninist.

00:10:05.000 I mean, who killed Salvador Allende?

00:10:07.000 So 66 million people died in the gulags, rough estimation.

00:10:11.000 Does that not concern you?

00:10:13.000 I mean, most of those numbers are inflated.

00:10:15.000 Like, you got to really understand this.

00:10:16.000 Like, the reality is that was their normal prison system.

00:10:19.000 If you look at the mortality rate in the gulags compared to the mortality rate in American prisons at the same exact age.

00:10:25.000 So let me ask you this.

00:10:26.000 So how many people died in the Holocaust, would you say?

00:10:30.000 I don't know.

00:10:30.000 I'm not a Holocaust expert.

00:10:32.000 How about like 8 million?

00:10:34.000 Would you say that's fair?

00:10:35.000 So I know at a minimum there's 6 million Jews in the country.

00:10:37.000 So why are those numbers accurate?

00:10:39.000 Yet the Gulag ones aren't. 0.99

00:10:40.000 Well, it's very interesting that you bring that up because the truth of the matter is, if you look at the people, right, if you look at the de-Nazification of Western Europe, what you end up having is you have a lot of people, like, for example, right, like Nazi government officials that get put in charge of West Germany, right?

00:10:57.000 Then you have Nazi officials that get put in charge of institutions like NATO. 0.82

00:11:01.000 And then you have a lot of these Nazis that quite literally set up institutions who put out information. 0.78

00:11:08.000 What do you got information?

00:11:10.000 Like, name one, name one person.

00:11:12.000 Look at the first commander of NATO.

00:11:13.000 Literally, look at the first NATO commanders.

00:11:16.000 They literally brought in people from Nazi Germany.

00:11:18.000 Are we going to pretend that Operation Paperclip is not a thing that the United States did?

00:11:22.000 Operation Paperclip was in conjunction with Operation Mockingbird, which was a CIA propaganda campaign, which I don't quite answer the question of the accuracy of gulags.

00:11:30.000 Anyway, that's a little bit of futile.

00:11:32.000 I'm just trying to understand, though, like maybe we're just on different planets here, quite honestly, because I've actually met countless thousands of people that were in these gulags and their stories and their first-hand perspectives, and they did nothing wrong to be put in there except had the different political viewpoints, or they were pastors.

00:11:53.000 And then you embrace a political worldview that does that.

00:11:56.000 Well, let's take this, for example.

00:11:58.000 Let's imagine that you're a serial murderer in the USSR, right? 0.99

00:12:02.000 Let's imagine, and then you go to the gulag, right?

00:12:04.000 What's that?

00:12:05.000 I'm not imagining.

00:12:06.000 I'm talking about pastors.

00:12:07.000 I'm talking about.

00:12:08.000 No, no, no, no.

00:12:08.000 Because that is the reality.

00:12:09.000 Because, like, if you want to know, it's not the reality.

00:12:11.000 There's funny documentaries.

00:12:12.000 Like, look, for example, right?

00:12:14.000 For example, okay.

00:12:15.000 So Radio Free Europe, Radio Free Europe did this really great interview session where they literally went to people that were in these gulags.

00:12:22.000 And it was so funny because when Radio Free Europe puts out this video about, oh, these people who used to live in the gulags, they asked them, oh, what did you think about Stalin?

00:12:30.000 And they basically said, because remember, right?

00:12:33.000 You remember that the USSR was invaded by the Nazis, right?

00:12:36.000 And you also remember that.

00:12:37.000 Yes, and then they deterred the invasion.

00:12:38.000 You also remember that the USSR swaps out all of Ukraine.

00:12:43.000 You also realize the Civil War.

00:12:44.000 The Civil War was between the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks because they couldn't determine what blend of communism they wanted after they overthrew the Romanov dynasty, right?

00:12:52.000 But you also had the White Army.

00:12:54.000 Do you know what the White Army is?

00:12:55.000 I'm very familiar with the White Army.

00:12:56.000 You know, the Royalists, the people that were, of course, close on this topic.

00:13:02.000 But are you going to reinforce for the audience here?

00:13:05.000 Which is a civil war in your country.

00:13:08.000 I know the United States doesn't like to jail insurrectionists.

00:13:11.000 Remarkably, you just made an argument that was pro-gulag.

00:13:16.000 And yeah, they had a prison system.

00:13:18.000 That's what I mean.

00:13:20.000 It kind of does explain some of your other views because we're just living on different planets, like Team Reality, Team Narnia.

00:13:27.000 So how is our prison system better?

00:13:30.000 Hold on a second.

00:13:31.000 For example, you got a lawyer.

00:13:33.000 We have an independent judiciary.

00:13:34.000 You have a jury of your peers.

00:13:35.000 You know what a show trial is?

00:13:37.000 What is a show trial?

00:13:38.000 Judiciary.

00:13:39.000 What's a show trial?

00:13:40.000 What's a show trial?

00:13:41.000 I don't know.

00:13:42.000 Ask Stephen Donziger.

00:13:43.000 Who is General Tukachevsky that Samuel took up?

00:13:45.000 Steven Donziger.

00:13:46.000 You think the United States doesn't do show trials?

00:13:48.000 Look at Guantanamo.

00:13:49.000 What are those?

00:13:49.000 Hold on a second.

00:13:50.000 What you're trying to do is indict the entire Western legal tradition and conflate it with the Leninist, Stalinist, we're going to kill half the population we don't like.

00:13:59.000 Look, what you're trying to do is you're trying to take a country that had to deal with a civil war that had to deal with an invasion and compare that to the United States today.

00:14:07.000 I'll close with this.

00:14:08.000 You are defending genocide, which is quite honestly a remarkable thing to see in real time. 0.80

00:14:13.000 You are defending genocide of Joseph Stalin and Vladimir Lenin.

00:14:16.000 That's not clear.

00:14:16.000 The intentional destruction and killing of 65 million people.

00:14:18.000 This is what I'm talking about.

00:14:19.000 And no, there's no middle ground in genocide.

00:14:22.000 That's your opinion.

00:14:27.000 Look, free speech, religious liberty, and the Second Amendment.

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00:14:48.000 Found him, sat down in Dallas.

00:14:49.000 We had a great meeting.

00:14:51.000 And I vetted Patriot Mobile head to toe, their business model, how they do things.

00:14:56.000 And I was convinced that we must partner with them.

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00:16:32.000 Moving on.

00:16:34.000 Has there ever been a successful example of Marxist theory in action where the workers are truly empowered?

00:16:42.000 Yeah, 100%, most definitely.

00:16:44.000 Like, so, first and foremost, we have obviously the brave Vietnam soldiers that defended themselves, defended themselves against the invading American army, which was basically there to punish them for daring to free themselves from French colonial rule.

00:17:00.000 Wait, so hold on.

00:17:01.000 How did that work out?

00:17:03.000 And what do you mean?

00:17:03.000 How did that work out?

00:17:04.000 So, I mean, so no, seriously, the Ho Chi Minh City under communist rule.

00:17:08.000 Better than or better now?

00:17:11.000 What do you mean, better than or better now?

00:17:13.000 Was it is Ho Chi Minh a better place under Viet Cong rule or better now under more kind of Western rule?

00:17:18.000 Who do you think is in charge of Vietnam right now?

00:17:20.000 I mean, it's a generally much freer country than it was 60 to 50, 60 years ago.

00:17:25.000 Oh, that's weird.

00:17:25.000 When did the Communist Party lose power in Vietnam?

00:17:27.000 Hold on, they've industrialized their country, they've opened themselves up international trade, they actually have fair and free elections.

00:17:32.000 Like, I'm not going to say Vietnam's a perfect country, but post-Viet Cong rule, their standard of living has increased. 0.97

00:17:38.000 So, you think that's a good thing.

00:17:41.000 Maybe perhaps Ancient Orange had something to do with some of the struggles that he had.

00:17:44.000 They think that maybe the sanctions from the United States of America cutting off supplies to food maybe have something to do with the people.

00:17:49.000 Okay, got it.

00:17:49.000 So, America's always a villain.

00:17:51.000 So, besides the Viet Cong, which is a new one, I'll be honest, where else has communism worked? 1.00

00:17:54.000 China.

00:17:55.000 Look at China. 0.88

00:17:56.000 Okay, what about China works with?

00:17:58.000 Aside from the fact that China is the strongest economy in the world right now, there's obviously the fact that average wages in China have tripled over the past decade.

00:18:05.000 So, before we go any further, do you really want to defend the Chinese Communist Party against me?

00:18:10.000 Sure.

00:18:10.000 Okay, got it.

00:18:11.000 So, Uyghur Muslims, how do you feel about them?

00:18:18.000 So, you're pro-concentration camp?

00:18:20.000 No, not pro-concentration.

00:18:21.000 Okay, so where are the Uyghur Muslims right now?

00:18:23.000 Do you know what the East Turkmenistan movement is?

00:18:24.000 No, no, no.

00:18:25.000 Don't change topic.

00:18:26.000 I'm not discussing the same topic.

00:18:28.000 You don't know that the East Turkmenistan movement was labeled by the United States of America as a terrorist organization.

00:18:33.000 Oh, got it.

00:18:34.000 Okay, so pro-concentration inside of China.

00:18:36.000 Got it.

00:18:36.000 What about the one-child policy for 40 years?

00:18:39.000 No, no, no.

00:18:39.000 We need to stop right here because, first and foremost, you pushed earlier the double genocide theory, which, by the way, Holocaust scholars have viewed.

00:18:46.000 You are pro-genocide.

00:18:47.000 But anyway, no, Stop right here.

00:18:49.000 Saying no doesn't make it.

00:18:50.000 The double genocide theory is literally Nazi propaganda.

00:18:54.000 The whole idea was to say that the obvious, okay, mismanagement of a famine.

00:18:59.000 They're trying to equate that to the invasion and the mass murder committed by the Nazis.

00:19:04.000 They're literally Nazis that intentionally pushed that theory.

00:19:07.000 Why do you think that Israel to this very day actually has tensions with specific people in Ukraine who are pushing that double genocide theory?

00:19:16.000 Because the truth is, a famine and the mismanagement of recently.

00:19:19.000 I'm talking about in addition to mass graves, gulags, and all that.

00:19:21.000 But let's talk about the CCP.

00:19:22.000 So let's talk about the CCP.

00:19:24.000 So you're cool with the one-child policy? 0.86

00:19:27.000 It doesn't matter what I'm cool with.

00:19:29.000 The reality is...

00:19:30.000 No, no, no.

00:19:30.000 That was a policy of the CCP for years where they would murder another child if you had more than one kid.

00:19:35.000 Look, what we need to understand is that China is a democracy.

00:19:40.000 And they are going to make laws based off of their actual materials.

00:19:45.000 How are they a democracy?

00:19:46.000 Are you kidding me?

00:19:47.000 Aside from the fact that the central government has a 95% approval rating, which, by the way, before you're like, oh, but you're not going to be able to do it.

00:19:53.000 Have you been to China?

00:19:54.000 No, of course.

00:19:56.000 Oh, so you must be a subject matter expert.

00:19:58.000 I'm not.

00:19:59.000 Yeah, so it's interesting.

00:20:01.000 Okay, so their democracy.

00:20:03.000 Do they have senators or Congress?

00:20:04.000 What does it take to China?

00:20:05.000 Well, there's about 1,000 members of their National People's Congress, and then obviously they have a system of local people's concerns.

00:20:10.000 And so you don't think those elections are right?

00:20:12.000 I'm going to test you.

00:20:13.000 What does it take to get on the ballot in China?

00:20:15.000 What is it?

00:20:16.000 A lot of money, power, and influence in killing the right people.

00:20:18.000 Oh, that's weird because it's actually illegal to spend money on campaigning in China.

00:20:22.000 There's actually very few people.

00:20:23.000 So you think that a dissident Chinese person could run up against Xi Jinping right now?

00:20:28.000 So let me ask you a question.

00:20:29.000 You're pro-CCP.

00:20:31.000 So you think it's okay?

00:20:32.000 How do you think elections work?

00:20:33.000 How do you think elections work in China?

00:20:36.000 It's very simple.

00:20:37.000 You're born into the right family.

00:20:38.000 You have connections to the right family.

00:20:39.000 You can't answer that question.

00:20:40.000 No, what's Xi Ji Ping's like?

00:20:41.000 What does it take to get on the ballot in China?

00:20:43.000 You have to have the right connections.

00:20:44.000 Yes, I do.

00:20:45.000 No.

00:20:45.000 I do know.

00:20:46.000 You can't just all of a sudden pop up.

00:20:47.000 Have you read the law?

00:20:48.000 Have you read their laws?

00:20:48.000 You have to attention.

00:20:50.000 Have you actually read through?

00:20:50.000 No, no, no, no.

00:20:51.000 You think the law actually applies to the channels?

00:20:52.000 Here's the chat.

00:20:54.000 So what happened to the Tiananmen Square?

00:20:55.000 Listen, this is the answer.

00:20:56.000 What happened to Tiananmen?

00:20:57.000 Charlie Kirk doesn't know because he has no idea how to manage it.

00:21:00.000 What happened to Tiananmen Square?

00:21:01.000 You need to get 10 signatures to get on the ballot in China.

00:21:05.000 That's it.

00:21:05.000 10 signatures.

00:21:06.000 How many people does it take to start a recall in China?

00:21:08.000 How many temples do they destroy in Tibet?

00:21:11.000 How many?

00:21:12.000 So you think you could recall Xi Jiping?

00:21:14.000 How many people do you think it takes to recognize?

00:21:15.000 Do you understand?

00:21:16.000 I have to be honest. 1.00

00:21:18.000 You are such an unbelievable fool to believe that China actually has a democracy. 1.00

00:21:24.000 Well, look, here's the thing. 1.00

00:21:25.000 They've tripled their average wages.

00:21:26.000 They've eliminated extreme poverty.

00:21:28.000 They have a mass popular support in China.

00:21:30.000 They have the strongest economy in the world.

00:21:32.000 And right now, they are not available through poverty.

00:21:37.000 More people than the population of America do not have access to clean water or toilets.

00:21:41.000 And that's your idea of lifting people out of poverty.

00:21:44.000 Let me ask you this question.

00:21:45.000 26 million people forcibly locked down in Shanghai.

00:21:49.000 Cats are being put into entire bags and murdered.

00:21:52.000 If you have COVID, that's your idea of a good society?

00:21:55.000 26 million people being forcibly locked down in China at a moment of people.

00:21:58.000 They're permanently disabled because of COVID in the United States.

00:22:00.000 How many people died in China?

00:22:01.000 I don't know.

00:22:02.000 Ask the country that designed the virus, your favorite country to see.

00:22:06.000 Where did it come from?

00:22:07.000 What do you mean, where did it come from?

00:22:10.000 Where did the virus come from?

00:22:11.000 So you've had link conspiracy theories.

00:22:12.000 Look, I don't know.

00:22:13.000 No, no, no.

00:22:14.000 No, what country did it come from?

00:22:15.000 I have a master's degree in biosecurity and biology.

00:22:18.000 So you must be so smart.

00:22:19.000 Where did the country come from?

00:22:20.000 Where did it come from?

00:22:21.000 Here's the thing, Charlie.

00:22:22.000 Listen up.

00:22:22.000 Did you know that there were American scientists working in that lab?

00:22:27.000 What's the name of the lab?

00:22:28.000 In the Wuhan.

00:22:29.000 Oh, so it came from China.

00:22:31.000 It came from China.

00:22:31.000 Yeah, it was a family.

00:22:32.000 Oh, so it's the Chinese virus. 0.87

00:22:34.000 No, it's not the Chinese virus. 0.52

00:22:36.000 What country did it come from then?

00:22:37.000 How many strains of coronavirus are?

00:22:39.000 Like, how many types of coronavirus are there?

00:22:41.000 There's plenty.

00:22:42.000 There's Omicron, there's COVID-19, there's the original strain, but it was originally developed.

00:22:46.000 No, no, see, you've listed three.

00:22:48.000 The reality is there's different types of coronaviruses that are existing in the world that exist in the world, that aren't developed anywhere.

00:22:55.000 Like, cats have their own.

00:22:57.000 No, of course, but which one was developed on the land?

00:23:00.000 Coronaviruses?

00:23:01.000 There's no, like, you think that the American scientists that were working in that same lab right next to those Chinese scientists, you think that they were secretly malicious?

00:23:10.000 No, no, you're putting words in my mouth.

00:23:12.000 Hold on.

00:23:12.000 No, no.

00:23:13.000 Did it come from a lab or not?

00:23:14.000 Or did it come from a Himalayan birth?

00:23:15.000 No, of course it didn't come from a lab.

00:23:17.000 Oh, you think it didn't come from a lab?

00:23:18.000 No, yeah, because I live in a real world.

00:23:20.000 I live in a real world, okay?

00:23:22.000 I live in the real world.

00:23:24.000 You understand that every single person worth their assault looks at the strain and they understand that this was bioengineered in a lab.

00:23:29.000 Fauci himself agrees to that.

00:23:31.000 What do you think?

00:23:31.000 What do you think would pro tell me?

00:23:33.000 Because apparently you're the biologist here, right?

00:23:36.000 How do you say that?

00:23:36.000 Well, I do know what a man and a woman is.

00:23:38.000 Do you?

00:23:38.000 Tell me the difference.

00:23:39.000 Tell me the difference.

00:23:41.000 Okay.

00:23:41.000 Tell me the difference between how do you tell the difference between a man-made virus and a non-man-made virus?

00:23:45.000 There's a lot.

00:23:46.000 Sequencing, everything from how it's compiled, mRNA type technology.

00:23:49.000 So according to the type of sequences.

00:23:51.000 According to Anthony Fauci's own emails to Hugh Albatross on January 31st, on Friday evening, he said, quote, this has every single marker of a man-made laboratory-created virus.

00:24:00.000 That's Anthony Fauci's own declassified emails, the CDC and the NIH.

00:24:03.000 Not to mention the thousands of other scientists that have looked at the strain, and they say the way that the proteins are correlated, the way that this is put together.

00:24:10.000 Wait, wait, wait.

00:24:11.000 What do you mean?

00:24:11.000 Proteins are correlated?

00:24:12.000 The way that it's put together.

00:24:14.000 You're just throwing words together.

00:24:15.000 Okay, see, my language might be a little sloppy, but the people that understand the actual sequencing are.

00:24:20.000 Because you didn't go to bio school and you don't know what you're talking about.

00:24:23.000 Hold on a second.

00:24:23.000 So you think that.

00:24:25.000 Where did the virus come from then exactly?

00:24:26.000 What do you mean, where did the virus come from?

00:24:28.000 Tell me where it came from.

00:24:28.000 Yeah, well, so this is really interesting, right?

00:24:30.000 See, because the type of virus that it is, right?

00:24:32.000 Little RNA viruses, they recombine a lot.

00:24:35.000 That's one of the really interesting things about these types of viruses.

00:24:37.000 And so what happens is when you have a couple of different strains that infect the same species at a time, the way the virus reconstructs itself, which to be clear, we don't necessarily have a full understanding of how exactly that happens.

00:24:50.000 But the reality is one of the central theories is this random assortment process where if you have multiple strains of a virus that is infecting one thing at a time, which is one of the reasons why bats in particular, because they're capable of being able to do that.

00:25:03.000 Because they're capable of being a lot of people.

00:25:04.000 Man, I got a serious question.

00:25:05.000 There are many different strains.

00:25:06.000 I have a question.

00:25:06.000 Are you on CCP payroll?

00:25:08.000 Because I don't think a sane individual could believe this.

00:25:10.000 I wish.

00:25:12.000 You think I got that kind of money?

00:25:13.000 Well, he wants to be a CCP agent.

00:25:16.000 You think I like, you really?

00:25:18.000 You think I, though, you think China is funding me?

00:25:20.000 That's how, like, that's so disconnected from the world.

00:25:23.000 Well, no, I'm just going to be honest. 0.98

00:25:25.000 No rational person could believe the stream of absolute nonsense that you are. 0.97

00:25:30.000 You have to be paid for this. 1.00

00:25:31.000 Like, you're kind of like a walking hologram of insanity. 0.83

00:25:36.000 I don't know what to tell you, buddy. 0.91

00:25:37.000 Like, but I just hope it's worth it.

00:25:39.000 It sounds more like you're talking into a mirror at this point.

00:25:42.000 No, actually, you're the one that's defending the murderous genocidal CCP and the murderous genocidal Lenin.

00:25:48.000 What was this?

00:25:48.000 Okay, tell me this then.

00:25:49.000 Yeah.

00:25:49.000 What was the biggest genocide that ever happened in world history?

00:25:52.000 The biggest genocide, and it depends how you define a genocide.

00:25:54.000 I would say Stalin's intentional massacre or Mao's intentional massacre for 65 to 70, 70 million people.

00:25:59.000 I don't know, 70 million?

00:26:00.000 Yep, intentional death.

00:26:01.000 What about the 200 million people that used to live on this continent?

00:26:05.000 Oh, you mean the people that died of natural causes?

00:26:07.000 You think what 200 million people are you talking about?

00:26:12.000 You're talking indigenous.

00:26:14.000 You think there were 200 million people before we came here?

00:26:16.000 Yeah.

00:26:17.000 All living at once.

00:26:18.000 Yeah.

00:26:20.000 Where on earth do you get that number?

00:26:23.000 What do you mean?

00:26:24.000 From anthropologists.

00:26:25.000 So you think we killed them all? 0.96

00:26:26.000 From anthropologists. 1.00

00:26:27.000 Of course we killed them all. 0.99

00:26:28.000 So we killed 200 million people intentionally. 0.99

00:26:30.000 Yes.

00:26:30.000 You think, so just to be very clear, right?

00:26:34.000 You're sitting here denying the genocide of indigenous folks.

00:26:38.000 Do you know who Teddy Roosevelt is?

00:26:39.000 Oh, you think Teddy Roosevelt's a mass murderer? 0.99

00:26:41.000 Yes, Teddy Roosevelt is a mass murderer.

00:26:44.000 What do you think those rough riders did? 0.83

00:26:45.000 Who do you think they were killing?

00:26:47.000 They won the war in Cuba.

00:26:48.000 What war?

00:26:49.000 What war?

00:26:50.000 The war against the commies in Cuma. 0.69

00:26:52.000 You know that.

00:26:52.000 Wait, hold up.

00:26:53.000 They won war against communists in Cuba.

00:26:55.000 Who's in charge of Cuba right now?

00:26:57.000 Well, the communists.

00:26:58.000 Oh, so they didn't win the war then?

00:27:00.000 Well, they won a battle.

00:27:01.000 Oh, they won a battle.

00:27:02.000 Wait, we've gone from one war to a battle.

00:27:04.000 They won the Spanish living in reality. 0.96

00:27:06.000 They won the Spanish-American War in the world.

00:27:08.000 Okay, okay.

00:27:08.000 So let me ask you a question.

00:27:09.000 Like, who else did he go to war against?

00:27:10.000 Well, Teddy Rosa actually won a Nobel Peace Prize for brokering peace between Russia.

00:27:14.000 They don't care about the Nobel Peace Prize.

00:27:15.000 You don't care about much.

00:27:16.000 Honestly, that's real.

00:27:20.000 How many years have I been telling you about Relief Factor?

00:27:22.000 Producer Andrews right here doing an Iron Man thanks to Relief Factor.

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00:27:45.000 And I believe they'll do it.

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00:28:16.000 How are an individual's wants and needs represented best in a Marxist society?

00:28:22.000 Oh, so I'll ask the commie.

00:28:24.000 Obviously, through their democratic structure.

00:28:26.000 Like the reality is, right, this is the thing, right?

00:28:29.000 Obviously, going back to the role of the state to serve the interests of the working class to suppress the interests of capitalists, which is exactly why people like Charlie Kirk obviously are very unsettled with it.

00:28:38.000 Because the reality is that in America, working class people have to worry about the government kicking down their door for doing things like smoking marijuana.

00:28:46.000 But in China, it's not the working class people that have to worry about, you know, the government kicking down their doors.

00:28:52.000 It's corrupt billionaires that have to worry about the government kicking down their doors.

00:28:55.000 Just look, for example, giant tech companies making tons and tons of money in China with very little regulations.

00:29:01.000 Well, what does China do?

00:29:02.000 They put in tighter regulations on these tech companies, and then they take money from these tech billionaires, and then they give it to anti-poverty programs across the more rural parts of China in order to fund schools, food, things like that.

00:29:15.000 Like, for example, China's this really, really great co-op development program, which is really, really great.

00:29:20.000 So they combine ecological.

00:29:22.000 I can tell you.

00:29:23.000 They combine.

00:29:25.000 You've got to be acting at this point.

00:29:27.000 Why do you think I'm acting?

00:29:29.000 Is it because you're acting?

00:29:29.000 No, it's because the reality is so different of the millions of people in China that are literally forcibly held in their homes, the millions in concentration camps, the people that can't even breathe because the air quality is so bad.

00:29:42.000 How about the underground Christians that are murdered in the streets for trying to go to church?

00:29:46.000 So, no, continue on your beautiful like co-op in Beijing.

00:29:50.000 Like, yeah, we could grow vegetables in Shanghai, so it's so great.

00:29:54.000 That's kind of the argument, right?

00:29:56.000 Look, what are we talking about?

00:29:57.000 Vegetables in Shanghai.

00:29:58.000 You're assuming that this is Shanghai.

00:30:00.000 Obviously, Shanghai is like a giant urban city, right?

00:30:03.000 The cooperative development, which is really cool, by the way, they're combining ecological restoration with these cooperative developments.

00:30:08.000 So, and with the schools in there, they have a requirement that the schools buy a lot from the local farms, right?

00:30:13.000 60% of the food, right, that they serve in the schools basically comes from local farms.

00:30:18.000 So, if you're talking about meeting people's needs, right?

00:30:21.000 The farmers there have a need for like, you know, economic development, right?

00:30:25.000 So, if you buy from the schools, if you buy the food from those farmers, that puts money into their pockets, and then they literally take that food and give it back to the school kids so the school kids can have a full belly while they're trying to learn.

00:30:38.000 And this is the reality, Charlie.

00:30:40.000 Like, you got to understand, like, if you think China is so dystopian, how come the incarceration rate in the United States is so much higher than China?

00:30:48.000 Well, because we have a rule of law and they kill dissidents that break the rule of law.

00:30:51.000 Tell me, tell me dead people then.

00:30:53.000 Tell me how these people should show up.

00:30:54.000 Tell me about Foxconn.

00:30:56.000 What about Foxconn?

00:30:57.000 What do you know about it?

00:30:58.000 What about, you mean, you mean the crony plot that basically bulldozed an entire town in Wisconsin, kicking people out of their homes for a factory that never happened.

00:31:11.000 In China.

00:31:12.000 What about Fox Connect?

00:31:13.000 So do you know they have to put up nets to try to prevent people from jumping out of their buildings?

00:31:17.000 So an American company was trying to get a newspaper.

00:31:18.000 Hold on, you know, they took those.

00:31:21.000 A Chinese Communist Party partnership sponsored by Xi Jinping himself and his entire regime.

00:31:26.000 So when you go to China, let me just tell you, you'll drive down the street and you will see dead people laying in the middle of the street.

00:31:31.000 You will see people defecating. 0.85

00:31:33.000 Go to China then. 0.93

00:31:34.000 Go to China.

00:31:34.000 Take a video.

00:31:35.000 Actually, you know what?

00:31:36.000 Go to China.

00:31:37.000 Unlike you and these cameras right now. 0.88

00:31:39.000 Unlike you, my wife lived in China for six months and she'll show you the videos. 0.61

00:31:43.000 She'll show you the images.

00:31:44.000 They don't have a regard for human life.

00:31:46.000 They don't value people as the individual.

00:31:48.000 We're the ones letting people die of coronavirus.

00:31:50.000 Hold on a second.

00:31:51.000 The reality of China is that if you disagree with the government, you disappear.

00:31:54.000 Like Jack Monk.

00:31:56.000 Yeah, if you disagree.

00:31:57.000 If you disagree.

00:31:58.000 Oh, because that was his only thing he just disappeared.

00:32:00.000 Or if you're a dissident millionaire.

00:32:02.000 Like the Uyghur Muslims. 1.00

00:32:03.000 You get put in re-education camps where we have drone footage of people that are forced to eat pork against their religious conscience.

00:32:09.000 You're talking about the East Turkmenistan movement.

00:32:11.000 No, I'm talking about the Uyghur Muslims that you're trying to spin in some sort of weird. 0.99

00:32:15.000 Look, what does he do to Tibet, though?

00:32:17.000 No, no, no.

00:32:17.000 So the Associated Press, the Associated Press actually went to Xinjiang, right?

00:32:23.000 Which, by the way, anybody can go to Xinjiang if you want.

00:32:26.000 You know, I'm not allowed into China, right?

00:32:28.000 Right?

00:32:28.000 Okay, sure.

00:32:29.000 No, I'm not.

00:32:30.000 If I go to China, I get arrested.

00:32:31.000 Great society.

00:32:32.000 Okay, cool.

00:32:33.000 Then somebody else go.

00:32:35.000 Because people did.

00:32:35.000 Somebody felt like I was going to go to the house.

00:32:36.000 It's a wonderful place.

00:32:38.000 But Westerners aren't allowed to do it. 0.98

00:32:41.000 You can.

00:32:41.000 How come the Associated Press went to Xinjiang?

00:32:44.000 No, they asked.

00:32:44.000 They want the right journalists to go.

00:32:46.000 But if someone like me were to show up, you think that the Associated Press is out there carrying water for China?

00:32:52.000 Hold on a second.

00:32:52.000 The Associated Press also wrote in other articles that these were quasi-concentration camps.

00:32:58.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:32:58.000 So like concentration camps.

00:33:00.000 Like this thing, the Associated Press fundamentally has like this right-wing bias, right?

00:33:04.000 Like that's just ultimately the reality of the Associated Press.

00:33:08.000 Because, right, like who, who are funding Western journalists?

00:33:12.000 Where do Western journalists get money?

00:33:14.000 Is it maybe through capitalist institutions that have, you know, like their own friends, right?

00:33:22.000 Like, so let's think about this for a second.

00:33:24.000 Let's think about this for a second, right?

00:33:26.000 So they, Associated Press, actually goes and they write an article and they talk about it.

00:33:30.000 Because the reality is we can have, if we want to live in the real world, we can have a conversation about whether or not China was going too heavy-handed in dealing with the East Turkmenistan movement, which is a terrorist movement.

00:33:41.000 But a lot of Uyghur Muslims, even in Xinjiang, are happy that now they can finally drink alcohol without having to worry about bombing attacks and stabbing attacks.

00:33:49.000 Now we can have a conversation about whether or not they were too heavy-handed, about whether or not they're racially profiling.

00:33:56.000 The propaganda is in the reality of the world.

00:33:57.000 Let's have a conversation about concentration camps.

00:34:00.000 Like, you know, maybe we shouldn't be forcing them to eat pork against their religious conscience. 0.97

00:34:04.000 You know, murdering a lot of them is probably wrong. 0.84

00:34:06.000 There's really not a conversation to be had. 0.53

00:34:08.000 Like, you're defending concentration camps.

00:34:10.000 I think they're wrong.

00:34:11.000 If there's a major terrorist movement in the United States, how do you think we should respond to that?

00:34:15.000 A major terrorist movement.

00:34:16.000 Well, they get, actually, I can tell you exactly how it happens.

00:34:18.000 Like, when the Boston bombers tried to bomb in Boston, they got...

00:34:21.000 No, no, no.

00:34:22.000 That's an individual.

00:34:22.000 That's an individual bombing.

00:34:24.000 Okay.

00:34:24.000 Yeah, so when ISIS pops up, they still get, if they're American citizens, they get due process rights.

00:34:29.000 How do you think?

00:34:29.000 Really?

00:34:30.000 American citizens get due process rights.

00:34:32.000 Tell them to tell all the Americans that we drone striked in the Middle East.

00:34:34.000 Hold on a second.

00:34:35.000 No, wait.

00:34:36.000 You mean Americans on American soil?

00:34:38.000 That's what you asked.

00:34:38.000 So it's not like a hypothetical.

00:34:40.000 Okay, well, I'm not going to keep on talking about it.

00:34:41.000 Let's say we get a whole lot of people.

00:34:43.000 Let's say we get a whole ISIS. 0.98

00:34:44.000 I just want to tell them.

00:34:45.000 I want to ask.

00:34:46.000 I want to ask what, if they're American citizens, they get due process constitutional rights.

00:34:49.000 Do they?

00:34:50.000 Really?

00:34:50.000 So, yeah, I mean, Timothy McVay got a trial.

00:34:52.000 Truly, the Supreme Court just took away Do they not know?

00:34:58.000 Literally, just to poke away people's rights.

00:35:00.000 Sandy's got new evidence in themselves.

00:35:03.000 The Parkland shooter got a trial.

00:35:04.000 The Buffalo shooter gets a trial.

00:35:05.000 We know that, Maria. 0.99

00:35:06.000 Yeah, because they're white supremacists. 0.99

00:35:08.000 Of course, white supremacists are going to get a trial. 0.97

00:35:09.000 What about the Tsar Nevsky?

00:35:10.000 What about the Tsarnev brothers?

00:35:11.000 The Tsarnev brothers, the Boston bombers, did they get a trial?

00:35:14.000 Yeah, they got a trial.

00:35:15.000 So you just disprove your own.

00:35:16.000 I'm talking about individual terrorist.

00:35:19.000 Where does cultural Marxism fall under your ideology?

00:35:24.000 Cultural Marxism is literally a Nazi conspiracy theory.

00:35:27.000 Like, literally, like, literally, the Nazis in Nazi Germany invented the phrase cultural Marxism.

00:35:32.000 The fact that you're asking me about it is a pretty telling to who you are.

00:35:35.000 Oh, you think I'm a Nazi?

00:35:36.000 Most definitely.

00:35:37.000 I mean, at this point, like, you've made it pretty clear.

00:35:39.000 Why am I a Nazi?

00:35:41.000 You ask me questions about cultural Marxism.

00:35:43.000 That's literally...

00:35:44.000 Like, so in case you ask you who is cultural Marxist.

00:35:46.000 Who's Antonio Gramishi?

00:35:47.000 Okay.

00:35:48.000 Gramsci.

00:35:48.000 I'm telling you, Gramsci.

00:35:50.000 Who is he?

00:35:50.000 Why are you bringing Gramsci into this?

00:35:51.000 No, no, but just tell me who he is.

00:35:54.000 The Italian socialist.

00:35:56.000 Yeah.

00:35:56.000 So what coin, what phrase did he coin?

00:35:58.000 You tell me.

00:35:58.000 I don't know.

00:35:59.000 Cultural Marxism.

00:36:00.000 Oh, okay.

00:36:00.000 Was he a Nazi?

00:36:01.000 Okay.

00:36:02.000 No, Antonio.

00:36:03.000 Oh, so maybe it didn't come from the Nazis.

00:36:05.000 Okay, literally.

00:36:06.000 So why would you say something so false when Gramsci himself came up with the phrase?

00:36:10.000 Do you know what the conspiracy theory is around cultural Marxism and why it got so popular in Germany in the 1930s?

00:36:17.000 So let's go back to Gramsci.

00:36:19.000 What did he write about cultural Marxism?

00:36:20.000 I don't know.

00:36:22.000 I'm not familiar with all of his.

00:36:23.000 Yeah, you're not familiar because you just keep on spouting out these things that call people Nazis, which is super unhelpful and not true.

00:36:28.000 And so, yeah, Antonio Gramsci from prison said that Marxists must adopt a cultural framework alongside an economic framework in order to get the means of what they want to get done.

00:36:37.000 That's not a conspiracy theory.

00:36:38.000 Just read his book.

00:36:40.000 Okay, but that's different than the phrase cultural Marxism.

00:36:43.000 What do you mean?

00:36:43.000 How is it different?

00:36:44.000 It's exactly the same thing.

00:36:45.000 No, it's not exactly the same thing.

00:36:47.000 So what happened is in Nazi Germany, they spread this theory called cultural Marxism.

00:36:51.000 They literally had this theory that Jewish people were secretly like bringing Marxist theory into the mainstream.

00:36:57.000 And literally, that's not at all what anybody on the right talks about.

00:37:01.000 Are you kidding me?

00:37:02.000 What about that guy who literally just murdered a bunch of people talking about great replacement people?

00:37:06.000 You're telling me that Tucker Carlson doesn't talk about that on a regular basis?

00:37:09.000 Hold on a second. 0.94

00:37:10.000 So, first of all, the Buffalo Shooter is disgusting and it's awful. 0.92

00:37:13.000 And he was more of like a weird leftist than anything on the right. 0.90

00:37:16.000 If you actually read what he wrote, he called himself a left-wing authoritarian, which sounds more like you, by the way, than me.

00:37:21.000 Let me finish talking.

00:37:22.000 The Nazis participate in the future. 0.99

00:37:23.000 Secondly, on the left, too, buddy.

00:37:24.000 Secondly, what is cultural Marxism?

00:37:27.000 Cultural Marxism is developing a cultural framework of deconstructionism or postmodernism to try to break ourselves from the shackles of the Western tradition so that we can embrace the nonsensical economic ideas that you believe in.

00:37:38.000 That's not a conspiracy theory, it's reality.

00:37:40.000 And it was written by Gramsci himself.

00:37:42.000 And if you're not familiar with those writings, well, then you're not really equipped to talk about cultural Marxism.

00:37:47.000 You just keep on like, conspiracy theory.

00:37:49.000 Like, yeah, actually, you're wrong.

00:37:51.000 Like, go to the roots.

00:37:52.000 Sure, buddy.

00:37:53.000 Sure.

00:37:54.000 Is that your response?

00:37:55.000 Sure.

00:37:57.000 Thank you, Ben.

00:37:58.000 Thank you, Charlie.

00:37:59.000 How do people in a Marxist society overcome oppression?

00:38:03.000 Yeah, well.

00:38:04.000 They leave.

00:38:06.000 Okay, sure.

00:38:07.000 So why don't you live in a Marxist country?

00:38:09.000 I'm just curious.

00:38:10.000 Why don't I live in a Marxist country?

00:38:11.000 Well, I mean, aside from the fact that I was born here and I would like the United States to be a better place, the reality is, like, when it comes to overcoming oppression, I mean, just look at, once again, Vietnam, right? 0.94

00:38:21.000 Vietnam invaded by the United States.

00:38:23.000 Is that not oppression?

00:38:24.000 Or what about, like, what about North Korea, for example?

00:38:27.000 In North Korea, we killed one out of every five people in their entire country.

00:38:33.000 Is not the very minimum of evicting colonizers and evicting imperialist armies?

00:38:40.000 Hold on a second.

00:38:41.000 Why did we invade Korea? 0.51

00:38:42.000 Why did we invade Korea? 0.51

00:38:44.000 I'm asking you.

00:38:44.000 No, you tell me.

00:38:45.000 Because the truth of the matter is their economy, like, so first and foremost, they were like, obviously, Imperial Japan was occupying Korea.

00:38:54.000 Then you have the socialists that liberate Korea from Imperial Japan. 0.86

00:38:59.000 Then you have all of these powers coming in in the middle of Korea at the end of World War II and ended up splicing it up.

00:39:07.000 So the reality is, one of the reasons why we invaded Korea is because we were deeply upset that anybody anywhere in the world would be socialist.

00:39:15.000 Because do you think Korea is going to like invade the United States? 0.84

00:39:19.000 So let me ask you a question.

00:39:20.000 They were about to invade.

00:39:21.000 Where is it a better place to live?

00:39:23.000 Seoul, South Korea or Pyongyang, North Korea?

00:39:25.000 I don't know.

00:39:26.000 It depends on who you are.

00:39:30.000 You believe there's not even a question of who, like an average everyday worker, Pyongyang, North Korea or Seoul, South Korea, right now?

00:39:36.000 It really depends on who you are.

00:39:37.000 Ask poor people in South Korea how they're feeling about their system of government.

00:39:40.000 They are kissing the ground every day that they are.

00:39:45.000 No, why are there so many defectors that defect from North Korea that then defect back to North Korea?

00:39:50.000 Name one.

00:39:51.000 What do you mean?

00:39:52.000 I'm not going to list them off by name.

00:39:53.000 Name one.

00:39:54.000 I mean, you can just Google it.

00:39:55.000 Oh, you can Google it.

00:39:57.000 Have you ever heard of Yemeni Park?

00:39:59.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:40:00.000 What about her?

00:40:01.000 What about her?

00:40:02.000 Do you want to know?

00:40:03.000 The young lady whose father was murdered, she was sold into sex slavery, barely escaped to China, came to America to tell us what's really going on in North Korea?

00:40:09.000 Okay, buddy.

00:40:10.000 Like, why is she doing conferences with the Heritage Foundation?

00:40:14.000 Because she'll go to anyone that will listen to her a first-hand perspective.

00:40:16.000 So hold on a second.

00:40:17.000 Or maybe perhaps.

00:40:18.000 North Korea is game. 1.00

00:40:19.000 Did you know that there's like a whole game show in South Korea where they bring on defectors and they're incentivized, right?

00:40:25.000 The more like over the top their story is, the more over the top their story is, right?

00:40:30.000 The more they get paid, right?

00:40:31.000 The more they keep getting brought on these shows.

00:40:33.000 So the reality is, nobody's going to say that North Korea is a perfect place to live.

00:40:36.000 Nobody's going to say that.

00:40:38.000 Nobody's going to say that there aren't terrible things.

00:40:39.000 It is hard.

00:40:40.000 But the reality is there's explicit financial incentives for people to inflate stories about.

00:40:46.000 Let me give you an example that isn't a financial incentive.

00:40:48.000 Okay, sure.

00:40:48.000 You look from space at night on South Korea and North Korea.

00:40:51.000 North Korea is dark, and South Korea has lights all over.

00:40:54.000 Do you think that has anything to do with the sanctions that the United States has on North Korea?

00:40:58.000 It's North Korea that has imposed a lot of sanctions on the West as well.

00:41:01.000 They develop nuclear technology against us.

00:41:04.000 North Korea could make some choices against us immediately.

00:41:06.000 Immediately.

00:41:07.000 Who are their major economic trade partners?

00:41:09.000 China? 0.73

00:41:09.000 Iran? 0.73

00:41:10.000 Okay, okay, two.

00:41:11.000 You've named two.

00:41:12.000 Yeah, China and Iran.

00:41:13.000 That's about it.

00:41:13.000 No one else will really trade with them.

00:41:14.000 They're a pariah state.

00:41:16.000 Why?

00:41:16.000 Why is North Korea a pariah state?

00:41:17.000 Because they murder their own citizens and re-educate them.

00:41:20.000 Or maybe because the United States is not...

00:41:21.000 Because they have gulags all across North Korea.

00:41:23.000 Maybe it's because the United States has gone out of its way to make sure that every country that we deal with isn't allowed to trade with the people.

00:41:29.000 Let's finish the point.

00:41:30.000 So maybe that has an impact on economic.

00:41:32.000 Our intervention in Korea helped create South Korea and make sure that the entire Korean peninsula wasn't going to be able to do it. 0.99

00:41:39.000 What happened in South Korea in the 90s?

00:41:40.000 How do they treat disabled people?

00:41:42.000 Because here's the thing.

00:41:43.000 Let me finish.

00:41:44.000 They literally, you want to talk about concentration camps.

00:41:46.000 Let me finish.

00:41:46.000 South Korea was putting people in concentration camps.

00:41:49.000 They were putting disabled people. 1.00

00:41:50.000 They were so patently ridiculous. 0.99

00:41:51.000 Let me finish. 0.96

00:41:52.000 Thanks to America's intervention, 100 million South Koreans right now live in a free, democratic society.

00:41:58.000 Absent America's intervention.

00:42:00.000 The society is democratic.

00:42:01.000 They would be all like North Korea, which they are poorer, they are unhappier, they have no freedoms. 1.00

00:42:07.000 Do you support the freedom?

00:42:09.000 What about freedom of speech?

00:42:11.000 Do you support the freedom of speech?

00:42:12.000 They have freedom of speech in Pyongyang.

00:42:13.000 Do they have freedom of speech in South Korea?

00:42:15.000 Of course they do.

00:42:15.000 Really?

00:42:16.000 Why?

00:42:16.000 They're deleting Pyongyang at all.

00:42:17.000 Of course they do.

00:42:18.000 See, it's actually illegal to say positive things about North Korea in South Korea.

00:42:22.000 So I thought you like, you just said they have freedom of speech, but you don't even know basic laws.

00:42:26.000 Hold on a second.

00:42:26.000 You don't know basic laws.

00:42:28.000 There's probably a pretty good reason for that, but quite honestly.

00:42:31.000 Oh, so wait, they have a good reason.

00:42:33.000 So like, for example, again, like it's a general defense.

00:42:36.000 Can you empower them?

00:42:37.000 You're against freedom of speech then.

00:42:38.000 You're against freedom of speech.

00:42:39.000 Can you start new companies like Hyundai and Samsung?

00:42:42.000 Can you empower entrepreneurs?

00:42:42.000 Yes.

00:42:43.000 Do you have the rule of law?

00:42:44.000 Yes, yes, yes, yes.

00:42:45.000 All of that in South Korea.

00:42:46.000 In North Korea, you can't own property.

00:42:48.000 You can't say anything good, bad, or indifferent.

00:42:50.000 You are silenced by force in North Korea.

00:42:52.000 How come they have a lower incarceration rate than we do?

00:42:54.000 Who in North Korea?

00:42:55.000 Yeah.

00:42:56.000 Oh, you trust the North Korean numbers. 1.00

00:42:58.000 Everybody's incarcerated.

00:42:58.000 We're not talking about the North Korean.

00:43:00.000 The country is incarcerated.

00:43:02.000 Everybody's face numbers about North Korea.

00:43:04.000 Everybody in North Korea is incarcerated by platitudes.

00:43:07.000 No, it's not.

00:43:08.000 The whole country is an open-air prison system.

00:43:09.000 Okay, sure.

00:43:13.000 Is there room for religion in Marxism?

00:43:15.000 Yeah, most definitely.

00:43:17.000 100%.

00:43:17.000 Like, for example, right?

00:43:19.000 Like, let's take people like Fidel Castro, right?

00:43:22.000 Fidel Castro is Catholic, right?

00:43:24.000 And he was one of probably the best Marxists out there, right?

00:43:27.000 There's a reason why people like...

00:43:28.000 He slaughtered 15,000 people with firing squads.

00:43:30.000 There's a reason why people like Nelson Mandela referred to him as like an inspiration and a friend, right?

00:43:35.000 So are you against Nelson Mandela?

00:43:37.000 Do you think part of his ideology was terrible?

00:43:39.000 He was a communist, but part of it was good.

00:43:41.000 But Nelson Mandela was a communist.

00:43:42.000 I'm not going to.

00:43:43.000 Oh, okay.

00:43:44.000 He was.

00:43:44.000 Okay.

00:43:45.000 So like the reason why.

00:43:47.000 His advocacy against apartheid was great, but his economic views were terrible.

00:43:50.000 There's actually a really great religious philosophy.

00:43:52.000 I don't know if you're familiar with liberation theology, for example.

00:43:55.000 Actually, one of the reasons why the CIA went into places like El Salvador to murder people was because liberation theology was so popular, right?

00:44:05.000 Basically the idea that like under Christianity, right?

00:44:08.000 Like, you know, Jesus was sort of the God who riots, right?

00:44:13.000 Who goes out of his way basically to stand up for people who are oppressed, goes out of his way to stand up for people who are marginalized, right?

00:44:20.000 He literally said the meek shall inherit the earth. 1.00

00:44:22.000 In fact, the only people that Jesus ever said wouldn't go to heaven were rich people.

00:44:26.000 He never said that.

00:44:27.000 He literally did.

00:44:29.000 It's a misquotation.

00:44:30.000 He said it's harder to get into heaven.

00:44:33.000 And by the way, if you go back to the actual Koine Greek, it is lover of money, not rich.

00:44:36.000 But that's fine.

00:44:38.000 You're not totally wrong.

00:44:39.000 Okay, right?

00:44:40.000 So like the reality is, the reality is, like, there are tons of different religions that are like completely compatible with Marxism.

00:44:46.000 And there's nothing inherently against it.

00:44:48.000 Now, Marx had specific theories about religion.

00:44:51.000 He said it was the opiate of the masses.

00:44:52.000 He said it's the opiate of masses, which a lot of people misinterpret, right?

00:44:56.000 A lot of people misinterpret.

00:44:57.000 See, what Marx meant by that was that, you know, religion plays a very critical cultural role in alleviating pain and suffering that marginalized people feel, which is very understandable, right?

00:45:06.000 Like if you're struggling in a very difficult world, like obviously turning to religion, believing that there's a higher power, believing that even in your difficult circumstances, that if you work hard and you be the best person you can be, there's going to be an afterlife waiting for you where you'll be able to live in peace, right?

00:45:23.000 Like none of that is contradictory to capitalism, but it is about the reality, or none of that is contradictory to Marxism.

00:45:29.000 But it's central to this reality is the idea that so many people, they only have religion as an outlet for self-expression because capitalism forces people into such brutal conditions.

00:45:42.000 Capitalism forces people into what conditions?

00:45:44.000 Brutal conditions.

00:45:46.000 Such as?

00:45:47.000 Such as, are you kidding me?

00:45:49.000 There's literally right-wingers out there that are calling for child labor to be brought back.

00:45:53.000 Are we not going to talk about the people?

00:45:56.000 You were supporting the CCP and they're like the heart of child labor in the world.

00:46:00.000 So like, don't give me that.

00:46:01.000 Child labor is illegal in America.

00:46:02.000 So how is that exactly the case?

00:46:04.000 Look, where was China 20 years ago versus where's China?

00:46:08.000 And they got rich largely because we offshored our labor.

00:46:11.000 So hold on, let's be very clear about the China stuff before I go back to another point I want to make.

00:46:15.000 China got rich off of our deindustrialization and a massive labor arbitrage because they could undercut our wages. 0.96

00:46:20.000 And whose fault is that?

00:46:22.000 Of course it's our own fault.

00:46:23.000 That's not the point.

00:46:24.000 The point is that it wasn't because of the brilliance of Xi Jinping.

00:46:27.000 It was because of the treachery and their ability to exploit their own citizens as pseudo-slaves to go make a bunch of plastic and fentanyl and bring it back into the West.

00:46:35.000 See, but this is the same thing.

00:46:36.000 They don't create new stuff.

00:46:37.000 They don't start new companies.

00:46:38.000 They simply just say we have more people.

00:46:40.000 Are you telling me that Huawei, are you telling me Huawei is the same?

00:46:42.000 They're a bunch of stuff.

00:46:44.000 They steal Western technology.

00:46:46.000 Then who's sending vaccines all over the world?

00:46:49.000 Pfizer, AstraZeneca, Johnson, and Johnson and Madurai.

00:46:52.000 Really, because the United States is sending that many vaccines.

00:46:55.000 I hope we don't send that many vaccines, but I mean, like, okay, literally last year, China was half of all the vaccines that they made around the world.

00:47:03.000 They were sending to other countries, like half of all the vaccines that they made. 0.76

00:47:06.000 There's a lot of people that are vaccinated today, specifically because of the hard work and dedication of people in China.

00:47:11.000 I hope nothing happens to them.

00:47:13.000 I wouldn't trust the Chinese vaccine, let alone a Pfizer vaccine. 0.75

00:47:16.000 But yeah, so I just want to get to this.

00:47:18.000 I have a more interesting, I think, more important question.

00:47:20.000 Do you think human beings are naturally good?

00:47:23.000 Human beings are naturally social, right?

00:47:25.000 Which means that human beings could be good or evil, right?

00:47:27.000 The reality is that, like, what makes us good is also what makes us evil, right?

00:47:32.000 Because the reality is, like, what would you do for your family, right?

00:47:36.000 A lot.

00:47:36.000 You would do a lot, right?

00:47:37.000 I think we would all basically do anything for our families.

00:47:40.000 And that is both what makes us so capable of goodness and kindness, but it's also what makes us so capable of vicious evil.

00:47:47.000 Because the reality is, if we thought that people were threatening our families, we would do a lot of terrible things, right?

00:47:52.000 But if we work together with other people and other families and we extend our minds to understand that we have a shared sort of societal experience, then we're going to do a lot of good things for each other.

00:48:02.000 So ultimately, when it comes to whether or not human beings are good or evil, we're just naturally social.

00:48:07.000 We want to fit in and be part of a society.

00:48:10.000 So ultimately, it really depends on the way society is structured that determines whether or not we end up being good or evil.

00:48:17.000 But it is all basically from us being pro-social.

00:48:21.000 So why is it that every civilization encounters the same problems then, regardless of its circumstances?

00:48:25.000 When do you mean every civilization?

00:48:26.000 What do you mean the same problems?

00:48:28.000 What do you think these problems are?

00:48:29.000 Oh, I'll articulate it.

00:48:30.000 From the Aztecs to the Incans to the Mayans to the Egyptians, the Indus River Valley, to the Chinese Empire, the British Empire, Till the Hun, to Genghis Khan, to Julius Caesar, to the Greek or Roman Empire, they all go through the same sort of cycle.

00:48:42.000 Where they start to allocate power to a lesser and lesser group of people.

00:48:45.000 They start to then create a pseudo-dictatorship under the false promises of empowering people.

00:48:51.000 And then the cycle of selfishness, murder, strife, division, famine continues to an end.

00:48:58.000 And the only thing that ever broke that cycle was the West.

00:49:01.000 The only thing that ever broke that.

00:49:03.000 Okay, A, how come the Iroquois Confederacy didn't have those problems?

00:49:06.000 Oh, so tell me about the Iroquois Confederacy and the great contribution to humanity they made.

00:49:10.000 I mean, do you like the United States Constitution?

00:49:12.000 Oh, you think that our Constitution is derived by the Iroquois Confederacy?

00:49:15.000 I mean, ask Benjamin Franklin.

00:49:16.000 He would admit it very directly and explicitly.

00:49:19.000 He didn't write the Constitution.

00:49:20.000 It doesn't matter, right?

00:49:21.000 All of the founding federalists.

00:49:22.000 No, it actually does matter.

00:49:23.000 No, no.

00:49:24.000 So let me tell you, if you have a question.

00:49:26.000 Ask James Madison.

00:49:27.000 Yeah.

00:49:28.000 So let me get this.

00:49:29.000 What Federalist paper is the Iroquois Confederacy mentioned in?

00:49:32.000 It doesn't matter the Federal Papers.

00:49:34.000 Because it really wasn't an inspiration.

00:49:35.000 The Federalist papers were the only thing that were written back then?

00:49:37.000 No, but it was the most...

00:49:38.000 Hamilton, Madison, and Jay went through private musings of why they wrote the Constitution.

00:49:42.000 And do you think they didn't care what Benjamin Franklin would say?

00:49:46.000 So I want to make sure I understand this right.

00:49:48.000 So the Iroquois Confederacy, you think, is where we got separations of power, separated powers, consent of the governed, independent judiciary, and consent to the governed.

00:49:55.000 Not the pilgrim colonies or the Bible or the Mayflower Compact or the Magna Carta or the writings of Augustin Aquinas, Hume, Burke, Locke.

00:50:04.000 None of the people were alive at the time.

00:50:06.000 John Locke, look, where do you think these people said that they got their ideas?

00:50:10.000 Like, the reality is, why do you think the Enlightenment came after all of these colonizers started visiting people in North America?

00:50:16.000 Oh, so you believe in this weird, unfounded mystical belief that we stole it.

00:50:21.000 This is actually a very standard understanding of world history.

00:50:25.000 If you have even a marginalized advantage.

00:50:27.000 So you think that John Locke stole from indigenous people?

00:50:31.000 Are you kidding me?

00:50:32.000 All of the Enlightenment philosophers stole from indigenous votes. 0.98

00:50:34.000 So what did Kant steal from the Indigenous people?

00:50:37.000 Like, are you kidding me?

00:50:39.000 The categorical imperative came from some tribesmen.

00:50:42.000 No, not the categorical imperative.

00:50:43.000 They don't have to necessarily steal every single person.

00:50:46.000 So let me get this.

00:50:47.000 Machiavelli, what did he study?

00:50:49.000 Because we didn't colonize when Machiavelli started writing.

00:50:51.000 Well, Machiavelli is a really interesting character.

00:50:53.000 No, what did he steal from indigenous people?

00:50:56.000 I mean, I wouldn't say that, like, Machiavelli to mine is saying he didn't really interact with people like Indigenous folks.

00:51:01.000 Okay, so nothing there.

00:51:02.000 How about Aquinas?

00:51:04.000 What did he steal from Indigenous people?

00:51:05.000 What do you think these people, like, like, this is the thing?

00:51:07.000 This is the whole mythology of the people.

00:51:09.000 No, no, no, but just fill out your argument, please.

00:51:10.000 Like, prove it.

00:51:11.000 Give specifics because it's rather critical, right?

00:51:14.000 So, like, what did Aquinas steal from indigenous people?

00:51:16.000 Like, okay, you're naming random people.

00:51:18.000 I'm not saying that.

00:51:18.000 No, no, they're not random people.

00:51:20.000 Okay.

00:51:20.000 Did Aquinas write the Constitution?

00:51:22.000 Aquinas inspired every single founding father.

00:51:24.000 They all read it.

00:51:25.000 They knew it backwards and forwards.

00:51:26.000 John Adams said no individual, theorist, or author was more instrumental to my metaphysical worldview than Thomas Aquinas.

00:51:32.000 That's because, look, look, are we going to ignore the fact that the founding fathers were incredibly racist?

00:51:36.000 Do you think that they were...

00:51:37.000 No, okay, so you think they were racist?

00:51:39.000 Of course they were racist.

00:51:40.000 So then why did they try to abolish?

00:51:41.000 Why did George Washington get his teeth?

00:51:43.000 Okay, so how many states decided to make the Northwest Territory?

00:51:46.000 Answer this question.

00:51:47.000 Where did George Washington get his teeth?

00:51:49.000 They were blended individuals, no doubt, mixed.

00:51:52.000 But you know what you and I both have in common?

00:51:53.000 No, no, I want to answer the question because I want to make sure that your audience is a lot of people.

00:51:56.000 I would assume that he probably got them.

00:51:58.000 So to make him look bad, you're going to say he got him from a slave or he exploited somebody.

00:52:02.000 But here's the truth about George Washington.

00:52:04.000 He took his teeth out of people's heads while they were alive.

00:52:07.000 He ripped teeth.

00:52:08.000 Here's the truth about George Washington outside of your Nicole Hannah-Jones highly emotive argument.

00:52:13.000 Everybody has something in common.

00:52:14.000 We're born into a world we didn't create.

00:52:16.000 And every one of these founding fathers were born into a world where slavery was everywhere.

00:52:20.000 By the time they died, it was on its way out.

00:52:21.000 Do you know what Thomas said about moral good?

00:52:24.000 It wasn't on its way out when they were all dead.

00:52:25.000 Hold on a second.

00:52:26.000 How many states abolished slavery by the time the Constitution was abolished slavery by 1787?

00:52:31.000 Nine out of 13.

00:52:33.000 So a majority of states had already abolished it.

00:52:35.000 Northwest Territory.

00:52:35.000 Why did they structure the Constitution in such a way to give slave states more representation?

00:52:39.000 I'm happy to walk through it.

00:52:40.000 Northwest Territories, first act of Congress, free or slave, slave area?

00:52:44.000 Free.

00:52:45.000 Unanimous.

00:52:46.000 Article 6 of the Northwest Territory.

00:52:47.000 First state to abolish slavery.

00:52:48.000 Vermont, 1777, inspired by the writings of the Declaration.

00:52:51.000 First anti-slavery convention, 1775, chaired by Benjamin Franklin.

00:52:55.000 When is slavery?

00:52:56.000 George Washington said, it's not a question of if.

00:52:59.000 It's a matter of when we abolish slavery.

00:53:01.000 Thomas Jefferson admonished King George in the original draft of the Declaration of Independence.

00:53:04.000 That means very much saying that slavery is a great evil that we blame King George for Thomas Jefferson abolished slave trade into a world for telling them they couldn't keep killing indigenous folks.

00:53:14.000 Thomas Jefferson said very clearly in the Virginia House of Commons in 1790 that we must abolish slavery.

00:53:21.000 He abolished the importation of new slaves as one of his first act of president in March of 1807.

00:53:25.000 The founding fathers fought tooth and nail to abolish slavery.

00:53:29.000 So you have a misrepresented and intentional pile of his argument to try to misrepresent the great heroes of the founding fathers.

00:53:36.000 When they banned the inspired slaves, what happened?

00:53:39.000 What ended up happening was the slave trade went down.

00:53:41.000 Eli Whitney creates the cotton gin and a whole new debate of slavery gets reignited.

00:53:44.000 Nazi, that's actually not true, right?

00:53:46.000 The reality is, do you know what happened?

00:53:47.000 The slave trade, I guess, went down if you're talking about international trade.

00:53:50.000 The United States set up literal farms where human beings were bred.

00:53:56.000 Human beings were bred. 0.50

00:53:58.000 No, no.

00:53:59.000 Slavery was going down dramatically in the 18 teens. 0.97

00:54:03.000 Slavery.

00:54:04.000 18 teens, it's going down.

00:54:05.000 Nine out of 13 states would abolish it.

00:54:07.000 We're talking about the 1770s, and now all of a sudden we're at the 1870s.

00:54:10.000 Just what?

00:54:11.000 Thomas Jefferson was president in 1807.

00:54:12.000 So you've got to get your ears right, okay, before we talk about this.

00:54:15.000 So he was sworn in in March of 1807.

00:54:17.000 He was governor of Virginia in 1790, wrote the Declaration in 1777.

00:54:20.000 So when did slavery end in the United States?

00:54:22.000 Great question.

00:54:23.000 It began to end in 1777, a process of decoupling from an ancestral evil where we have more people in the world right now that are slaves today than back then.

00:54:32.000 The process began, 1820s, the debate reignites because of John C. Calhoun, the creation of the cotton gin.

00:54:37.000 We fight a war over it.

00:54:38.000 We win the war and slavery is abolished.

00:54:41.000 That's a pretty awesome track record for a country that inherited an evil that every other country prior to it had.

00:54:47.000 It was the West that got rid of slavery.

00:54:48.000 It was William Wilberforce.

00:54:50.000 It was John Edwards.

00:54:50.000 It was George Whitfield.

00:54:51.000 It's easy to kind of do your thing.

00:54:53.000 Like, well, it's terrible.

00:54:54.000 It's bad.

00:54:55.000 Yes, it's easy to call balls and strikes on a society you didn't create.

00:54:59.000 It's easy to try to lecture the rest of the country.

00:55:02.000 Be like, you know, these people are so terrible for something you didn't toil for or sacrifice for.

00:55:06.000 They didn't outsoil.

00:55:07.000 They were suppressed.

00:55:08.000 For what these people were slave owners in the country you get.

00:55:11.000 It was the slaves that were toiling.

00:55:12.000 They were slave owners.

00:55:14.000 Also, by the way, slavery was never abolished.

00:55:17.000 We literally have it in the Constitution to this very day.

00:55:21.000 I'm sorry, what's the 13th Amendment?

00:55:22.000 Thank you, gentlemen.

00:55:23.000 Ben, we'll hear your closing remarks now.

00:55:27.000 Yeah, fundamentally, at the end of the day, the state can work to suppress the interests of capitalists or it can work to suppress the interests of the workers.

00:55:35.000 In the United States of America today, it is clearly suppressing the interests of workers.

00:55:39.000 Just look at the difficulty that people have in terms of forming labor unions, demanding higher wages, even getting access to basic health care that even other capitalist countries have, right?

00:55:49.000 Then you have a lot of countries that have been the victims of colonialism that have states that serve the interests of the working class people.

00:55:55.000 And while they have a very difficult starting point, the reality is they are surpassing the United States now in a timeframe that is rapidly outpacing the development that happened in the United States.

00:56:05.000 So ultimately, the reality is we can choose for the government to serve the interests of the very rich few, or we can have a government that serves average working-class folks.

00:56:15.000 So I just have one question.

00:56:16.000 I'm sorry.

00:56:17.000 Do you trust the government?

00:56:19.000 This government?

00:56:20.000 No.

00:56:20.000 But once again, we have to ask the nature of the state.

00:56:22.000 But then, why would you want to make that government bigger?

00:56:25.000 No, It's not about making the government bigger.

00:56:27.000 It's about changing the fundamental structure of the government so it serves the interests of workers instead of the interests of capital.

00:56:33.000 And in fact, this is one of the things that, like the fundamental dishonesties that I think come from people like you.

00:56:38.000 You point to a capitalist government, say, look, it's not working for workers.

00:56:41.000 We should have less government and give capitalists more power.

00:56:43.000 But the reality is, right, and this is the fundamental reality, that it's the nature of the government that is the problem.

00:56:49.000 You're unwilling to admit the very fact that our government is fundamentally serving the interests of capital as opposed to serving the interests of the workers.

00:56:57.000 And that if we were to flip the system on its head, it would work a lot better.

00:57:00.000 At its best, it's the opposite.

00:57:02.000 It serves the function of the liberty of individuals, the pursuit of virtue.

00:57:06.000 Yeah, I mean, look, in closing, human beings aren't naturally good.

00:57:09.000 We're actually naturally awful to each other.

00:57:11.000 And human history shows that.

00:57:13.000 We have the same problems over and over again.

00:57:15.000 And the government needs to be strong but small.

00:57:17.000 And the founding fathers built that beautiful government that people like you are trying to destroy in a country that you refuse to leave.

00:57:23.000 Here's how you know you live in a great country: that even those who say they hate it refuse to leave.

00:57:28.000 Every person in China that would be given a chance to go out, almost every person would leave almost instantaneously.

00:57:33.000 Why don't they?

00:57:34.000 Because they're not allowed to.

00:57:36.000 Really?

00:57:36.000 People move to the United States from China all the time.

00:57:38.000 Those that are allowed.

00:57:40.000 Very few that are allowed.

00:57:42.000 In Venezuela, you're just banking on not knowing about millions of people that would do anything to leave these disastrous experiments.

00:57:50.000 And I have met far too many victims of communism to take any of your arguments seriously.

00:57:56.000 People that have the wounds to show it.

00:58:01.000 The pastors that were in jail for decades in the Soviet Union for doing nothing.

00:58:04.000 Like the plantation owners that had their plantations stolen.

00:58:07.000 People like Alexander Schultz Social Nitsyn that wrote about it endlessly.

00:58:11.000 The Cubans in Miami that had to build life rafts to save their own lives because of the oppressive Castro regime.

00:58:17.000 The people for Venezuela in Cuba and Argentina.

00:58:20.000 I'm going to trust them a lot more than a smug, sanctimonious person with a super bizarre laugh that read a couple things online that sound good.

00:58:27.000 Thank you, buddy.

00:58:30.000 Charlie, thank you.

00:58:32.000 Ben, thank you for coming.

00:58:36.000 Thank you so much for listening, everybody.

00:58:38.000 Email me your thoughts as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

00:58:40.000 Thank you so much for listening.

00:58:42.000 God bless.

00:58:46.000 For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to CharlieKirk.com.

The Charlie Kirk Show - July 05, 2022

Charlie Kirk Debates Trans Marxist Ben Carollo–Debate Night by TPUSA

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