The Charlie Kirk Show - Charlie Kirk vs. The University of Oxford

00:00:00.000 Hey everybody, 10 The Charlie Kirk Show.

00:00:01.000 My debate at Oxford.

00:00:03.000 That's right, I think you'll really enjoy it.

00:00:05.000 It's my back and forth with the students at Oxford.

00:00:08.000 And, boy, this has gone very viral, so make sure you listen to it and enjoy.

00:00:12.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

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00:00:17.000 That is members.charliekirk.com.

00:00:20.000 Thanks to Alan Jackson Ministries for your continued support.

00:00:23.000 Buckle up, everybody.

00:00:24.000 Here we go.

00:00:25.000 Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

00:00:27.000 Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

00:00:29.000 I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

00:00:32.000 Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

00:00:35.000 I want to thank Charlie.

00:00:37.000 He's an incredible guy.

00:00:38.000 His spirit, his love of this country.

00:00:39.000 He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.

00:00:46.000 We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

00:00:55.000 That's why we are here.

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00:01:23.000 Charlie Kirk is the founder and president of Turning Point USA, a prominent conservative youth organization with the presence of over 2,000 high school and college campuses across the United States.

00:01:33.000 He served as the chairman of Students for Trump, which focused on mobilizing young voters during the 2020 presidential election.

00:01:40.000 Kirk is the host of the podcast, The Charlie Kirk Show, and maintains a social media presence following with high levels of engagement across all platforms.

00:01:48.000 So please welcome me for introducing Charlie Kirk.

00:01:51.000 Thank you.

00:02:06.000 Welcome.

00:02:07.000 Thank you.

00:02:08.000 Honored to be here.

00:02:09.000 Thank you so much.

00:02:10.000 So I'm going to go straight into it.

00:02:13.000 So some of my first questions are regarding immigration.

00:02:16.000 So you've argued the 14th Amendment has been misapplied to undocumented immigrants.

00:02:24.000 And if so, you oppose birthright citizenship.

00:02:27.000 And if you do oppose birthright citizenship, what alternative system would you propose for determining who is automatically a citizen, and how would you address the risk of creating a legally precarious or stateless class of U.S.-born children?

00:02:41.000 That's a good question.

00:02:42.000 And first of all, thank you for having me, and great to be here, everybody.

00:02:44.000 So if you don't...

00:02:46.000 I was at the other place yesterday, so we hope that you guys are going to be even better, right?

00:02:52.000 We'll see what happens.

00:02:54.000 I was amazed by how much you guys care about American politics and you know about our system of government.

00:02:59.000 So if you don't know, I'm just going to kind of just give you a quick overview.

00:03:02.000 So we have the 14th Amendment.

00:03:03.000 It was one of the post-Civil War amendments.

00:03:05.000 It's been used to apply for a lot of different things.

00:03:09.000 One of the ways that it's been debated is this idea of birthright citizenship.

00:03:12.000 So birthright citizenship is that No reservations, no, you know, asterisk, nothing at all whatsoever.

00:03:28.000 So that is what's called birthright citizenship.

00:03:31.000 Most of the rest of the world doesn't have it.

00:03:32.000 I don't even think you guys have it here in Britain where you could just come into the country and have a baby and you get a passport and you become a full citizen.

00:03:39.000 So the question is, does the 14th Amendment apply to the children of non-citizens?

00:03:45.000 Well, the Supreme Court ruled in the late 1890s in what's called the Wong case.

00:03:49.000 That it does apply to the children of permanent residents.

00:03:53.000 And well, since 1890, I think it was 1898 or something similar to that, it has not yet been decided or adjudicated whether or not illegal immigrants or non-American, non-permanent resident, non-U.S.

00:04:06.000 passport, non-green card holders and their children can get birthright citizenship.

00:04:10.000 I think that we should join the rest of the world, including your country, and not give just full U.S. citizenship for people that come on birth tourism to the United States.

00:04:19.000 Thank you.

00:04:20.000 So then, what is the alternative system you propose?

00:04:22.000 Because I know the UK has a similar system, but I think Ireland still has kind of like the birthrights and stuff like that.

00:04:28.000 So what would be your alternative?

00:04:30.000 Well, to the birthright citizenship question, just get rid of it.

00:04:34.000 And replace.

00:04:37.000 There should be no replacement, meaning that if you want to come to the United States of America, apply like everybody else and get in line, and you don't get to show up pregnant and have a child, and that child becomes a full US citizen. 0.91

00:04:47.000 So in terms of situations where, like, the parent has been an undocumented immigrant for a couple of years or decades at this point, and they're having children, where does that leave the children?

00:04:57.000 Do we then create, like, a state of, like, basically people who don't have kind of, like, documentation?

00:05:04.000 Yeah, that's correct.

00:05:05.000 They do not become U.S. citizens. 0.87

00:05:07.000 So our belief is that we should deport everyone who is in our country illegally back to their country of origin. 1.00

00:05:12.000 Something that finally your Labour Prime Minister is waking up and saying he wants to do.

00:05:15.000 I hope he actually does it.

00:05:17.000 But it's quite a concept that you're not allowed to come into a country unless you're invited.

00:05:21.000 And so we in the United States just won a popular vote election, a popular vote majority and electoral vote majority under the idea that we want mass deportations.

00:05:31.000 So if you are in our country illegally, the United States, it is our plan to return you back to your country of origin as a full family unit. 1.00

00:05:38.000 Thank you.

00:05:39.000 And then talking about kind of the idea of mass deportation and We've seen recently that he's been expediting the refugee applications of white South Africans, claiming they are victims of racial discrimination.

00:05:53.000 Considering what you've just said about kind of mass deportation being the few, what do you think justifies the embrace of white South African immigrants and their temporary legal protections that Trump is granting them? 0.96

00:06:05.000 Well, for one, one of the leading political parties in South Africa is saying that we should kill the boar. 0.98

00:06:10.000 Over and over again in an endorsed chant from the top leaders in a political rally saying that we should go kill the white South African farmer. 0.91

00:06:18.000 You can look at videos of crosses that will fill roads for miles of white South African farmers that have been brutally murdered in their home basically because of what is called land reparations at worst. 0.71

00:06:31.000 So this is at best, and then there's another word that we could use for it, which we'll see if it actually qualifies for that as time goes on.

00:06:38.000 But yes, I mean, this is a group where a government has decided that we are endorsing the worst and most venomous form of racial hatred against white South African landowners, and they're fleeing appropriate asylum with the United States.

00:06:54.000 Hilariously, it's only been like 25 people that have received this asylum.

00:06:58.000 And the American leaders have been completely okay with every other type of person on the planet to be granted asylum.

00:07:04.000 Like 15 million people, they want to grant asylum. 0.80

00:07:07.000 But when 15 white South Africans want to show up to the United States and have asylum because there's actually an endorsed mantra and chant to kill them, all of a sudden there's a major issue. 0.65

00:07:19.000 I wonder why. 0.95

00:07:20.000 Thank you.

00:07:21.000 So then, considering that, so if it applies to, for example, Nigerian Christians being killed in Nigeria and other kind of like world atrocities we're seeing across the world where people are in a vulnerable position, you would agree then that they also should have their applications?

00:07:34.000 It can.

00:07:34.000 Again, it's a case-by-case basis.

00:07:36.000 And if one of the leading political parties in Nigeria, whether it be the Muslim or the Christian faction, was outwardly saying we must kill the Muslims or we must kill the Christians, we're a very generous country. 1.00

00:07:45.000 We're willing to look at all the cases associated. 0.96

00:07:48.000 I happen to know the South African one.

00:07:50.000 I mean, Nigeria is the most populated country in Africa, so it's not unreasonable that something like this could happen.

00:07:57.000 But the United States of America is a generous country.

00:07:59.000 We've been known when it meets the criteria that we are a place that you can find safe refuge.

00:08:05.000 The problem is our asylum process has become a scam the last 15 years where people from countries just that have high crime rates are able to say that I am fleeing violence to come to the United States of America.

00:08:17.000 Well, guess what?

00:08:18.000 The United States is also very, very violent.

00:08:19.000 You go to Chicago, go to Philadelphia, it's not exactly a good cause or good claim.

00:08:23.000 And that is in a bad way.

00:08:25.000 That is a way where our compassion as Americans is being taken advantage of for an ulterior political motive.

00:08:31.000 Thank you so much.

00:08:33.000 Moving on slightly to a different topic, which is abortion.

00:08:38.000 Currently there is a woman who has been declared brain dead in Georgia and is being kept on life support because of the state's restrictive abortion laws that ban abortion after cardiac activity is detected, generally at six weeks.

00:08:49.000 So I want to basically ask you, A, your thoughts on that and how you think the pro-life arguments apply.

00:08:55.000 I'm having a hard time hearing it.

00:08:56.000 So you said there's a woman in Georgia that's on life support because she was not able to get an abortion? 0.93

00:09:00.000 So she's being kept on life support because she still has this baby in her womb. 1.00

00:09:04.000 She has a what?

00:09:05.000 I'm sorry. 0.94

00:09:05.000 She still has this baby, but she's like brain dead, completely brain dead. 0.94

00:09:09.000 But she still has a baby? 1.00

00:09:10.000 Yes, but she's been kept on life support just because of this baby. 0.94

00:09:14.000 And this is just due to the state's restrictive abortion laws that ban abortion after cardiac activities.

00:09:23.000 Why is she on life support? 0.98

00:09:24.000 Is it a pregnancy-induced ailment, or is it unrelated?

00:09:28.000 Separately ill, but the idea is she's completely brain-dead, so basically the only thing that's keeping her alive is this machine because of the baby, due to restrictive abortion laws. 0.89

00:09:38.000 Yes, I mean, that baby is going to be able to live, praise God.

00:09:41.000 And that mom will now, her parting life, I think that's beautiful.

00:09:49.000 Unless there's an element of the case I'm missing, like she has pregnancy-induced sepsis or there's something related to the case that I'm not aware of, because I do believe in the exception for the life of the mother, but that doesn't sound like that's what this case is.

00:09:59.000 So, to be clear, the mother is dead, and she's being kept alive.

00:10:04.000 She's being kept alive.

00:10:05.000 Hold on a second.

00:10:06.000 How is she dead if you congestate a baby? 0.99

00:10:10.000 She's brain dead. 1.00

00:10:11.000 But she's not dead.

00:10:12.000 Hold on a second.

00:10:12.000 She's brain dead, but let's reexamine what being dead means.

00:10:16.000 How can you actually have a baby fully develop within you if you're dead?

00:10:22.000 And that's what's always so interesting.

00:10:23.000 People that are called dead, they could still get pregnant. 0.76

00:10:25.000 Women who are dead still menstruate. 1.00

00:10:27.000 They still, when they are stabbed, their adrenaline levels go up.

00:10:30.000 And again, this goes back to the fundamental question of what is a human being and when does life begin?

00:10:35.000 And it would be very interesting.

00:10:37.000 Shouldn't the question also be, I don't know what her wishes are.

00:10:41.000 Do we know her wishes or not? 0.99

00:10:43.000 Well, the thing is, again, she's brain dead. 0.91

00:10:45.000 She can't give us her wishes. 0.79

00:10:46.000 But her family have made it very clear.

00:10:48.000 Prior to this, the pregnancy said, I want to do whatever is possible to save my baby.

00:10:52.000 So that's not a dumb question.

00:10:53.000 Yes, but I'm not saying it's a dumb question. 0.63

00:10:55.000 Okay, so we don't know.

00:10:56.000 So therefore, since we don't know her wishes, we should yield on the side of life.

00:11:00.000 And if that baby is able to survive and the mom dies...

00:11:07.000 Surely, considering her family is kind of like, please have been to basically save her first, which is obviously not possible anymore.

00:11:14.000 I'm sorry, so the family wants to save the mom, but you said she's brain dead, so there's no way to save her.

00:11:20.000 So she's simply just a vessel for a life.

00:11:23.000 Do you think that's okay, for women to just be vessels for life? 1.00

00:11:26.000 No, of course not.

00:11:27.000 In this extreme case, though, which is a moral question of if you terminate the mom, The baby dies.

00:11:34.000 If you can keep the mom, quote unquote, alive long enough, another life enters the world.

00:11:39.000 That is a morally great thing for humanity to be able to say another life comes into the world when someone who is brain dead would otherwise have no contribution to the species.

00:11:48.000 But what if this continues when we see more restrictive abortion laws in different states?

00:11:52.000 Well, we're not.

00:11:53.000 This case that you're saying actually proves my point that she doesn't have agency, she doesn't have consciousness, so we should yield on the side of the protection of the human being in utero.

00:12:02.000 So, here's my point.

00:12:03.000 The reason why we have this case happening in the first place is because of how restrictive the abortion was. 0.94

00:12:07.000 So, here's my point.

00:12:09.000 Abortion should be banned in the United States of America, and we're well on our way to do that.

00:12:13.000 Yes, correct, completely.

00:12:14.000 Except for the life of the mother.

00:12:15.000 Okay, so in the exception of the life of the mother, you agree that that should be...

00:12:19.000 But in this case where we basically have these women being vessels as brain-dead individuals and we're continuing to carry these pregnancies to full term... 1.00

00:12:32.000 She doesn't want to be carried as a vessel. 0.99

00:12:34.000 I guess the question I would pose to you or anybody else, what is the moral difference between the baby and the woman her? 0.99

00:12:38.000 One is older.

00:12:40.000 Are they not both human beings?

00:12:42.000 I mean, why all of a sudden that we're able to say that she's older and more developed that you can eliminate the smaller being?

00:12:47.000 Why is that okay?

00:12:48.000 Under what moral standard is okay to eliminate being smaller than you or because that you've been developed more?

00:12:53.000 In fact, we should, as humanity say, under this very extreme case, and thank you for bringing it to my attention, I'm actually going to talk about it, because it might be used as a way to put us on defense, but in some ways, it shows that we value both human beings.

00:13:07.000 that that mom who might not have nothing else to give, again, the last thing that her body can actually do is to have another life, her offspring, enter into the world. 0.93

00:13:17.000 And of course I would defend that because every human life, Okay.

00:13:27.000 Thank you.

00:13:28.000 So some other abortion related questions, kind of like touching on what you said, you've kind of talked about obviously the safety of the mother being like the only kind of like bar in which you think abortion should.

00:13:41.000 Yeah.

00:13:41.000 So what about abortions in cases of sexual assault or rape?

00:13:45.000 Yeah.

00:13:45.000 So, again, let's just say I have two ultrasounds here.

00:13:48.000 One of the ultrasound is a baby that is conceived in rape. 0.63

00:13:51.000 The other one is from a loving marriage.

00:13:54.000 Do we know which one is which?

00:13:56.000 So they're both human beings, and they both deserve human rights.

00:13:59.000 Someone in this audience was conceived in rape.

00:14:01.000 Do you know who? 0.90

00:14:03.000 Tell me.

00:14:03.000 Do they look different?

00:14:05.000 Do they get less rights? 0.98

00:14:06.000 Are you not able to have free speech rights because you're a rape baby? 1.00

00:14:08.000 No, we believe in universal human equality regardless of how horrific or evil the method of conception is.

00:14:14.000 That is what built the West and I will continue to defend that.

00:14:17.000 So then what happens in cases when the baby from that is a product of rape or sexual assault is mistreated, is abused?

00:14:24.000 That's a separate issue.

00:14:25.000 There's plenty of babies that are in loving monogamous marriages that are mistreated and abused.

00:14:29.000 It's separate.

00:14:29.000 There is no correlation.

00:14:30.000 There's no moral justification to say that I think or I even have data that that baby will be abused or mistreated.

00:14:36.000 Therefore, murder is okay.

00:14:38.000 I mean, there is correlation.

00:14:39.000 I think it's very clear when they've been perceived in very, very horrific situations.

00:14:42.000 The mother specifically as well is obviously in terms of mentally the impact they have on her that still the mother has to raise that baby all the way to 18 years old. 0.84

00:14:50.000 Still not a justification for murder.

00:14:51.000 And if you think that abortion is just a medical procedure or cosmetic type intervention, no different than getting plastic surgery, Women have regrets after abortion. 0.98

00:15:00.000 They have psychological trauma.

00:15:02.000 Again, the question is, do we defend human life universally as a statement?

00:15:07.000 And if the question is, I'm going to just kind of, well, I can eliminate the smaller life because I have regret of a sexual encounter I had, then I find a great question with that.

00:15:16.000 On the rape thing, though, to your point, it is the hardest thing that we have to defend on its surface.

00:15:22.000 Rape is awful and terrible. 0.99

00:15:23.000 Rapists should be castrated and put in life for jail the rest of their life. 0.97

00:15:28.000 The more important fundamental question is, under what moral standard is it okay to do something evil after an evil act when a life is eliminated? 0.94

00:15:37.000 One of the most powerful things I get to do is go down college campuses, and all the time I meet young kids that were babies, that were scheduled for abortions, that were conceived in rape, and they are full citizens of America that are flourishing and doing amazing things.

00:15:51.000 And I believe that we should get back to this idea that all human beings are equal regardless of how you entered the world.

00:15:58.000 Thank you.

00:16:00.000 Then considering, obviously, you've talked about how we need more abortion restrictions, but we're also seeing low birth rates in America and also in the West as a whole.

00:16:07.000 How do you think they interact with each other and do you think they're related?

00:16:10.000 I'm sorry, just to make sure I'm hearing the question.

00:16:12.000 And it's not your fault.

00:16:13.000 It's the acoustics.

00:16:15.000 You said falling fertility rates and abortion rates?

00:16:19.000 Yeah, basically.

00:16:20.000 So we actually already have a window into this.

00:16:22.000 In Texas, we have completely abolished surgical abortion.

00:16:25.000 You could still do an at-home abortion, which is mythopressinone, I think is what it's called. 0.63

00:16:30.000 And birth rates are up.

00:16:31.000 About 200,000 new babies net over the last 18 months in Texas versus the years prior.

00:16:36.000 And so, yeah, I mean, in the UK and America, we wouldn't need as many third world immigrants if we didn't kill our babies all the time in the womb. 1.00

00:16:42.000 Thank you very much.

00:16:46.000 My next question is slightly a larger picture, considering not abortion, but just the treatment of men and women.

00:16:53.000 So what do you think the role of red pill media is in the men's rights movement?

00:16:57.000 And what are the implications you think it has for women? 1.00

00:17:00.000 Okay, so you're, I'm sorry, you said that, what is the role of right-wing media in the men's rights movement?

00:17:04.000 Yes.

00:17:04.000 Red pill media.

00:17:05.000 I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be I want to make sure I answer the question.

00:17:08.000 What is the role of right-wing media in the men's I'm sorry, okay, red pill media.

00:17:13.000 In the men's rights movement.

00:17:14.000 What is red pill media?

00:17:18.000 I'm trying to think of a more broad definition.

00:17:20.000 Can you give me a name?

00:17:22.000 Think like Joe Rogan, you're Andrew T. Joe Rogan's awesome.

00:17:27.000 Great.

00:17:29.000 What's wrong with Joe Rogan?

00:17:31.000 I didn't say there was anything wrong.

00:17:33.000 What's Joe Rogan's role?

00:17:34.000 He helps save civilization.

00:17:35.000 He's a bowhunter.

00:17:36.000 It's fun.

00:17:37.000 My more general point is very much content that's being produced right now regarding men, Something we've seen, at least in the UK, was the show Adolescents came out recently.

00:17:58.000 Which was a complete fiction, by the way.

00:18:03.000 Talking about the kind of the way media interacted.

00:18:06.000 I mean, it's a mythology no different than Lord of the Rings.

00:18:08.000 Like, there's no basis for this.

00:18:10.000 I mean, there's a slight difference.

00:18:12.000 Well, you're right.

00:18:13.000 The difference was that the main character was actually an immigrant, not a white person.

00:18:16.000 That's right.

00:18:17.000 That's the one thing they got wrong.

00:18:19.000 So is it a complete fiction?

00:18:22.000 Yeah, it's a mythology.

00:18:23.000 I mean, if they would have talked about how it was like a third world Arab young kid radicalized by Islam and then started to decide to go stab somebody, then they would have gotten more correct in that Netflix special. 1.00

00:18:31.000 But yes, the point that I think, and by the way, this kind of scold, not you, you've been great, but like that ridiculous, the head of the conservative party being scolded.

00:18:40.000 Have you not watched adolescence? 0.89

00:18:42.000 What are you talking about?

00:18:44.000 As if it's like some sort of like, like you have not read the catechism of...

00:18:51.000 Have you not experienced the full Eucharist?

00:18:56.000 It's just, like, preposterous.

00:18:58.000 And so, I mean, sorry, you're asking a good faith question.

00:19:00.000 Like, what is the role of right-wing media?

00:19:02.000 Of course, they're toxic masculinity. 1.00

00:19:03.000 There's a war on men in the West.

00:19:04.000 We as men are here to be protectors and defenders and providers.

00:19:08.000 We should treat women with total dignity and respect, of which I'm a proponent of men.

00:19:13.000 I know this is a crazy Christian idea of saving yourself until marriage and not having sex until marriage. 1.00

00:19:18.000 I believe abstinence is not talked about enough.

00:19:20.000 In fact, you want to dignify women? 1.00

00:19:22.000 All of a sudden, don't have a bunch of hookup sex on Tinder and every app that you can get your hands on and start acting like men. 0.52

00:19:31.000 So, insofar that any media is talking about using women as objects or as ways to try and sleep around a lot, I reject that.

00:19:43.000 At the same time, I am a traditionalist where I believe most, not all, but most women of the West deep down desire getting into the world.

00:19:54.000 We have a lot of sex in this society and we don't have enough love in this society.

00:19:57.000 Because love comes from connection, it comes from the soul, it comes from something deeper, not just an orgasm.

00:20:04.000 Thank you.

00:20:15.000 Thank you so much for your answer.

00:20:18.000 Just another follow-up question on that in terms of Red Pill Media, specifically stuff like Andrew Tate's content, which I think is probably on the edge and kind of the fringe of it.

00:20:26.000 What are your thoughts then in terms of when it kind of pushes the limits?

00:20:30.000 Yeah, I don't know.

00:20:31.000 Andrew, I've never met him.

00:20:32.000 I mean, he has a certain following and he has a certain approach.

00:20:34.000 I've seen some of his content, some of it I like, some of it I disagree with.

00:20:37.000 I can only speak for what I believe, and I think that's fine.

00:20:40.000 I mean, if there's a video or a statement you want me to respond to, I can do that.

00:20:43.000 But more broadly, I think that the men of the West have been infantilized for They have nothing significant to aim for.

00:20:59.000 And part of that needs to be challenge.

00:21:02.000 Young men need challenge. 1.00

00:21:03.000 They need something that elevates them above their primitive state of just indulging the flesh.

00:21:09.000 And that means an entire society that knows that young men need other men To communicate to them in a way that is not that you're the worst, most awful thing ever because we see the men of the West checking out.

00:21:21.000 And I would love during our Q&A portion if somebody thinks that's a good thing or a bad thing.

00:21:26.000 And if you think it's a good thing, at least you are morally consistent.

00:21:29.000 If you think that the men of a society checking out is a good thing, well, you are getting your goal because that is what is happening.

00:21:35.000 We have like this generation that has completely disappeared of young men, particularly in my country, in the middle parts of America.

00:21:43.000 I don't know if the same trends are here in the UK, but I do know that it is intercontinental, this trend.

00:21:48.000 We see it across Europe and across the UK of this hyper fixation on feminism and female empowerment, while also not acknowledging that strong men built the West and won the wars and built the building that we're in right now.

00:22:01.000 And without strong men, then you all of a sudden see civilization unfold upon itself.

00:22:05.000 And we're seeing that happen in real time.

00:22:07.000 Thank you so much.

00:22:09.000 I'm going to move on slightly in terms of topic area.

00:22:13.000 What is your stance on Project 2025?

00:22:16.000 It's going great.

00:22:20.000 To what extent do you think it's feasible in terms of all the actual clauses within it?

00:22:25.000 In all fairness, it's a 1,200-page document.

00:22:28.000 I haven't even read it all.

00:22:29.000 But the parts about deconstructing the administrative state, there's an entire chapter of Project 2025 that our former president, who wasn't even president, he was brain-dead, And you all know it's true.

00:22:40.000 And the media covered up for it, and they lied about it, and they smeared all of us that acknowledged it and knew it.

00:22:44.000 He did not even know the year he got elected.

00:22:46.000 That is a fact.

00:22:47.000 You can go listen to the Robert Hur tapes, and the leader of the United States of America did not know the year that he got elected.

00:22:53.000 And an aide had to insert, be like, no, sir, you were actually elected in this year, not that year.

00:22:56.000 He didn't know the year that he left office as vice president.

00:22:59.000 He thought that his son died in combat, not of cancer.

00:23:03.000 In an official testimony to the United States government about a criminal investigation, so we had an administrative state running our government.

00:23:09.000 So about Project 2025, Joe Biden and the Democrats and some very weak Republicans told us the border is a problem that cannot be solved.

00:23:17.000 You just have to get used to the fact that two and a half million people come into your country every single year.

00:23:21.000 There's nothing you can do.

00:23:22.000 In Project 2025 and other documents, there's like, no, we can operationalize the border.

00:23:27.000 we're going to do remain in mexico all these other details so in april 60,000.

00:23:37.000 Last April, this one, six.

00:23:40.000 President Donald Trump did not need Congress.

00:23:42.000 He didn't need a new act of legislation.

00:23:44.000 Turns out we just needed a new president who knew what to do and actually cared about sovereignty.

00:23:48.000 So I think the project's going great.

00:23:50.000 I don't know all the details, but I'm thrilled that America has its mojo back.

00:23:54.000 Thank you very much.

00:23:56.000 My next question is something you said.

00:23:59.000 Regarding Obama, you described him as a failed cultural revolution agent.

00:24:05.000 What did I say?

00:24:06.000 A failed what?

00:24:06.000 Failed cultural revolution agent.

00:24:08.000 Oh, that's right.

00:24:09.000 That's correct.

00:24:09.000 Yeah.

00:24:10.000 Can you please clarify what you mean by the statement and your position on basically DEI more broadly?

00:24:16.000 What was the DEI part?

00:24:17.000 So can you clarify A, what you meant by that statement about Obama, and then your position on DEI more broadly?

00:24:23.000 Oh, okay.

00:24:23.000 Got it.

00:24:23.000 So I'll do the second one.

00:24:25.000 Second.

00:24:25.000 Okay.

00:24:25.000 So yeah, Obama's revolution.

00:24:29.000 Partly in his book, Dreams from My Father, which I encourage you to read, was that he thought that he would bring forth a great awokening and a reconfiguration of America.

00:24:39.000 And he thought that Hillary Clinton was like an automatic to become president.

00:24:43.000 They thought they were going to stack the Supreme Court with three new Supreme Court justices.

00:24:47.000 And his revolution never actually hit its final mark.

00:24:51.000 Instead, President Donald Trump won in 2016.

00:24:54.000 We got three Supreme Court justices.

00:24:56.000 We were displaced from power from four years.

00:24:58.000 And now President Trump is back on top.

00:25:01.000 And almost every one of the core things that Obama ran on or defended have fallen out of popularity with the American people.

00:25:06.000 And so you can like Obama.

00:25:08.000 I actually think there's plenty of things you can like about him.

00:25:10.000 He's very talented.

00:25:11.000 He's very charismatic.

00:25:12.000 He's very good on his feet.

00:25:13.000 He respected the White House.

00:25:15.000 He respected the Oval Office.

00:25:16.000 There's plenty of stuff.

00:25:16.000 I'm not an automatic hate Obama guy, but you must just be factual.

00:25:19.000 His vision, what he wanted to do for America, has failed.

00:25:22.000 It's failed in the popular vote majority.

00:25:24.000 It's failed in our public opinion polls.

00:25:25.000 Young people, which used to be Obama's greatest constituency, college campuses were all on fire for Obama.

00:25:31.000 Well, young people actually moved the most towards Donald Trump this last election, and President Donald Trump won the youth vote in Michigan and several other battleground states.

00:25:38.000 As far as DEI, my stance on it, I'm very much against it.

00:25:47.000 Can you elaborate more why you think it's in an edit?

00:25:49.000 Yeah, I mean, so again, so DEI is a...

00:25:56.000 So affirmative action is an extension of DEI, and they're kind of like cousins to each other. 0.62

00:26:00.000 So there's four elements to this.

00:26:02.000 There's critical race theory, which is the legal, it's kind of like the philosophical theory.

00:26:06.000 We could talk about it if you'd like.

00:26:07.000 There's affirmative action, which is most definitely in practice, if you will.

00:26:12.000 And then there's disparate impact theory, which has been the predominant legal theory in the United States to justify the U.S. Civil Rights Act.

00:26:19.000 And it's kind of, it's downstream tributary effect.

00:26:22.000 And then there is diversity, equity, inclusion, which I think the best example of DEI can be how it's kind of taken over the corporate workforce.

00:26:31.000 There's two ways I could look into it.

00:26:32.000 Number one, DEI demands that you must hire these new ridiculous diversity departments for no reason whatsoever that weigh down costs that are basically speech police internally of our major companies that make it a less desirable place to work and honestly less productive and less likely for us to be able to compete against the Chinese communists. 0.92

00:26:51.000 So I could talk and I can give you examples on that if you'd like.

00:26:53.000 The other part of this, though, is that you could insert, I don't know how deep you want me to go into this, but fundamentally DEI is about race quotas in America.

00:27:03.000 I don't know if it adheres in the UK.

00:27:04.000 And so when you have a quota and you want to reach that quota, you will then have to relax the standards of excellence.

00:27:10.000 When you build a big organization, you say, this is what we stand for.

00:27:13.000 Harvard, for example, used to stand for truth.

00:27:14.000 Veritas.

00:27:15.000 Every organization must have a telos.

00:27:17.000 It must have something you aim at.

00:27:18.000 And if you aim at anything other than excellence or meritocracy as a company, then you will compromise those things.

00:27:24.000 If all of a sudden you want to be equitable, well, maybe that company will not be that good anymore.

00:27:28.000 And we see the slippage of our excellence here in the West, where if we get away from excellence and meritocratic type undergirding philosophy and towards other type substructures, I think it's a remarkably dangerous proposition.

00:27:41.000 Thank you very much.

00:27:44.000 We're honored to be partnering with the Alan Jackson Ministries, and today I want to point you to their podcast.

00:27:49.000 It's called Culture and Christianity, the Alan Jackson Podcast.

00:27:53.000 What makes it unique is Pastor Alan's biblical perspective.

00:27:56.000 He takes the truth from the Bible and applies it to issues that we're facing today.

00:28:00.000 We'll be right back.

00:28:22.000 You can find it on YouTube, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:28:28.000 Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any episodes.

00:28:31.000 Alan Jackson Ministries is working hard to get biblical truth back into our culture.

00:28:35.000 You can find out more about Pastor Alan and the ministry at alanjackson.com.

00:28:40.000 That is alanjackson.com.

00:28:41.000 Again, that is alanjackson.com.

00:28:45.000 You spoke briefly about President Trump and kind of the success he's having in the U.S. right now.

00:28:51.000 So what are your thoughts on basically the tariffs issue we've basically been seeing with the U.S.?

00:28:56.000 I'm supportive.

00:28:57.000 Look, we're talking about this, I'm sure, in the Q&A.

00:29:00.000 Always look at the end result with Trump because the process can sometimes drive people mad and a little crazy and the up and down.

00:29:05.000 But like in the first term, everyone was very critical of his Middle East policy.

00:29:09.000 And then we got the Abraham Accords, which was an incredible accomplishment of peace between Israel and the Emiratis and the Saudis.

00:29:15.000 and so there's a process that you have to allow unfold here.

00:29:19.000 As far as the tariffs, You guys got actually a pretty good deal out of this.

00:29:25.000 President Trump was generous enough to actually exempt Rolls-Royce and some of your major manufacturing in the latest bilateral trade deal with the United States.

00:29:33.000 And I want to see our two countries grow closer together.

00:29:35.000 And I think the president has the same wish.

00:29:37.000 But as all the tariffs are eventually pointing at what we should, and this is the question for Europe, and this is the question for the United Kingdom.

00:29:44.000 Will Europe and the United Kingdom decide to embrace the West?

00:29:47.000 Will it look very, very far to the east?

00:29:50.000 The rising power struggle in front of us is all the things we've talked about, but it really is the Chinese Communist Party versus Western values.

00:29:59.000 The Chinese Communist Party is antithetical to even those of you that are liberal in this audience right now.

00:30:04.000 It's antithetical to what you believe and how you believe it.

00:30:07.000 The CCP is the greatest threat to so many of these different things on the planet.

00:30:11.000 And as it is this rising power, we have to reckon with this question.

00:30:15.000 Are we okay as America?

00:30:16.000 I don't know if that's the case here in the UK.

00:30:18.000 Are we okay with not making any of our own vitamin C, none of our antibiotics, none of our own critical pharmaceuticals?

00:30:24.000 We do not make our own drone materials.

00:30:26.000 In fact, we are supposed to make four submarines a year.

00:30:29.000 We only make two submarines a year because we have to get the parts from China.

00:30:32.000 And so I think there's a vassal state problem that is presenting itself in the West.

00:30:39.000 Where we have grown addicted to cheap products.

00:30:41.000 And the Chinese, they do manufacturing very well.

00:30:43.000 And you are underestimating the Chinese if you think it's just that it's cheap labor.

00:30:47.000 They're very organized.

00:30:48.000 They're very industrious.

00:30:49.000 They take manufacturing seriously.

00:30:51.000 Being the head of a manufacturing plant in China is like being a mayor of a small town.

00:30:54.000 You have power.

00:30:55.000 You have prestige.

00:30:56.000 You have honor.

00:30:57.000 You can call the local governor at any time.

00:30:59.000 They prioritized it and they knew that this was a way that they could enter into the global market.

00:31:03.000 So tariffs are in some ways.

00:31:25.000 Thank you.

00:31:25.000 On that, I think China's response to that has been very much, you know, It's a good question.

00:31:42.000 I don't know.

00:31:44.000 Just for you following, it was 180% tariffs and now it's at 30% tariffs.

00:31:49.000 I can say that tariffs will remain on critical manufacturing for American, critical American goods.

00:31:54.000 Now, if it's car seats, Rare earth minerals, very critical.

00:32:03.000 Every single one of the smartphones in your pocket requires a combination of rare earth minerals, most of which are mined and sourced in Chinese Communist Party, China.

00:32:10.000 Not because we don't have them in the West, but because all my friends that I'm sure I'll get a question from, you wonderful environmentalists, don't let us actually use our own rare earth minerals, but hey, somehow it's a different planet in China, so it's okay if they pollute, but not if we pollute, but if we import it, then, you know, we feel good about ourselves.

00:32:25.000 So essentially, the phones, almost everything we have in the West has some Chinese component to it.

00:32:31.000 So we need to triage this.

00:32:33.000 We need to ask the question, can we be self-sufficient if there is a rapid decoupling?

00:32:37.000 And this is something that both our countries need to reckon with, that we need to reconcile.

00:32:41.000 And right now, the answer is no.

00:32:43.000 And I hope that we can bring back that not just manufacturing base, because people think, like, what, are you just going to make, you know, T-shirts and textiles?

00:32:50.000 Well, yeah, that's part of it, but it's a lot deeper.

00:32:52.000 There is an advanced manufacturing opening that's going to happen in the West right now around robotics and around drones.

00:32:59.000 There will be a global supply of drones in the hundreds of millions in the coming decade.

00:33:04.000 Drones are actually really, really hard to build when they're sophisticated.

00:33:06.000 It's not as easy as you might think.

00:33:08.000 A lot of them come from China.

00:33:10.000 A lot of them, the parts do.

00:33:11.000 And so all of a sudden, if we're going to be comfortable with like a country that doesn't share our values, that is at best an adversary at worst than enemy, is going to all of a sudden control the stuff that's going to define the future.

00:33:20.000 Yeah, check me out on that.

00:33:21.000 So I support President Trump's strategy completely in that regard.

00:33:23.000 Thank you.

00:33:24.000 You've characterized the Democratic Party as antagonistic to American ideals and argue that the Republican Party falls short of opposing the agenda.

00:33:33.000 As someone who identifies as a conservative, how do you define the conservative movement today?

00:33:37.000 And how do you think it should evolve to engage with the next generation?

00:33:40.000 Yeah, thank you.

00:33:41.000 It's a great question.

00:33:42.000 How do I define being a conservative?

00:33:44.000 Well, we as conservatives need to not just oppose, we need to stand for stuff.

00:33:48.000 So what we oppose is very obvious.

00:33:49.000 We oppose the woke stuff.

00:33:51.000 We oppose mass migration.

00:33:52.000 We oppose the importation of these insidious values into our country and into the West.

00:33:58.000 What do we stand for?

00:33:59.000 I mean, we stand for what has worked, what is good, what is true, what is beautiful.

00:34:02.000 We want to have the We want to see church attendance go up.

00:34:06.000 We want to see suicide rates take a 180-degree pivot.

00:34:10.000 In our country, at least, we have the younger generation is the most suicidal, the most anxious, the most antidepressant, addicted generation in history, and yet they're the most wealthy and the most prosperous.

00:34:21.000 So for anyone that just thinks that material conditions alone dictate happiness or well-being, the West is a flaming indictment of that claim.

00:34:30.000 Mark's got some stuff right.

00:34:32.000 He got some stuff really wrong.

00:34:33.000 We are not just social material beings.

00:34:36.000 There's something deeper here.

00:34:37.000 And I believe, of course, that is the soul.

00:34:38.000 And we want to try to have people look up.

00:34:40.000 We want to have the people to look back.

00:34:42.000 That there's something beautiful that's been passed down.

00:34:44.000 That there is a moral code that we have forgotten.

00:34:47.000 That there is a root to our existence that we have cut off.

00:34:49.000 And we as the West are reckoning with what Nietzsche unfortunately predicted way, way back when.

00:34:55.000 And when he said God was dead, he was lamenting the death of God.

00:34:57.000 But he also said the West is not going to know what to do with itself.

00:35:00.000 And he basically predicted the Third Reich.

00:35:02.000 Like you're going to get all these counterfeit insane movements of nationalism and self-hatred and nihilism.

00:35:08.000 And I believe the answer is not for us to create like a new moral code, which we failed to do, by the way.

00:35:14.000 We have failed to do that.

00:35:16.000 Why don't we just work?

00:35:17.000 Why don't we just reinstitute and go back to what gave us the civilization in the first place?

00:35:22.000 What is divine?

00:35:23.000 What is everlasting?

00:35:25.000 And as Tom Holland, I know he went to Cambridge, but you've got to indulge me for a second.

00:35:28.000 As Tom Holland would say in his book, Dominion, that whether you realize it or not, whether you're a secular, atheist, Buddhist, Hindu, or Christian, if you live in the West, you are inheritor of a Christian tradition.

00:35:38.000 The way we look at things, honor your neighbor, help the poor, charity, natural rights, these are somewhat weird ideas when you actually think about it.

00:35:45.000 And instead of us trying to make a manufactured counterfeit new morality, we should go back to our Christian roots. 0.99

00:35:51.000 Thank you.

00:35:52.000 A more personal question on the idea of like Christian Newton, you being a very devout Christian.

00:35:57.000 I remember speaking to your assistant during the vacation and he's saying you don't respond on a Sunday because you participate in Saturday.

00:36:03.000 Saturday, actually.

00:36:03.000 Yes.

00:36:03.000 Yeah, that's right.

00:36:04.000 Yeah, it's very astute.

00:36:06.000 Yeah, so kind of like more, why do you kind of like, is that something you've taken from the Jewish tradition?

00:36:10.000 Now I really like you.

00:36:12.000 Now you ask the best question anyone's ever had.

00:36:13.000 I could talk about the Sabbath all day long.

00:36:16.000 I don't know if anyone is interested in this, so you could roll your eyes, but I'm a Christian, so...

00:36:23.000 There's great arguments for, great arguments against.

00:36:25.000 I'm actually writing a book right now on why I honor the Sabbath.

00:36:28.000 It's very simple.

00:36:28.000 It's called Stop in the Name of God, Why Honoring the Sabbath Will Change the World, basically.

00:36:32.000 And it is an argument that in this hyper-materialistic, very fast, digitally frenzied world, that there is this gift that I believe the Lord gave the Hebrews that we have decided to just gloss over.

00:36:46.000 And it's very simple.

00:36:47.000 It's that for one day, you will stop.

00:36:50.000 That it will be holy.

00:36:51.000 That it will be different.

00:36:52.000 For those of you that are agnostic or not Christian, I still encourage you to do this. 0.95

00:36:56.000 People that honor the Sabbath live longer. 0.97

00:36:58.000 We know this with the Seventh-day Adventists.

00:37:00.000 They actually are happier.

00:37:01.000 They have better health outcomes.

00:37:03.000 Everything about disconnecting from modernity is good for you.

00:37:06.000 It is inarguable.

00:37:07.000 This is a material fact.

00:37:08.000 But why is it that we have forgotten it?

00:37:10.000 Well, for me personally, I work like crazy for six days.

00:37:13.000 On Friday night, even Sunday morning, I turn my phone off and I try to stop.

00:37:16.000 I try to make it distinct.

00:37:17.000 I try to make it different.

00:37:18.000 It's where I do my best thinking.

00:37:19.000 It's where I do my best time with my family.

00:37:22.000 And again, this kind of goes back to, okay, we're trying to create all this new stuff.

00:37:25.000 Like, wow, we're going to have this new technological innovation.

00:37:28.000 We're going to have this vaccine.

00:37:29.000 And we're going to be able to solve this with quantum mechanics and quantum computing.

00:37:33.000 And I'm kind of like, honestly, something was told to us on Sinai that we shouldn't forget.

00:37:38.000 That, like, you shouldn't work for seven days.

00:37:39.000 In the retelling of the Ten Commandments in the book of Deuteronomy, the only difference of the retelling of the Ten Commandments is when Moses says, hey, you shouldn't work seven days because you're no longer a slave.

00:37:51.000 What Moses is saying is, like, only slaves work for seven days, actually.

00:37:54.000 And we in the West have kind of been slaves to our work.

00:37:56.000 And I say this as a free market capitalist.

00:37:58.000 That's not good.

00:37:59.000 It's making us depressed.

00:38:00.000 It's making us anxious.

00:38:01.000 And all of you have the agency to disconnect from that, to make a choice to no longer have to be subservient.

00:38:07.000 To the ever more, more, more next text, next alert, next email, next WhatsApp message.

00:38:13.000 And it kind of goes back to a theme I've been saying that.

00:38:16.000 It's also a phenomenal civilizational preserving tool.

00:38:20.000 It's worked for the Jews. 0.99

00:38:22.000 They've been kicked out of a lot of countries and a lot of people have hated the Jews, including right now.

00:38:26.000 And they're thriving and they're growing and they continue.

00:38:30.000 I think God has given us a preservative for a civilization.

00:38:35.000 And I believe it is the Sabbath.

00:38:37.000 Thank you very much.

00:38:39.000 Just picking up on a comment you just made just then about a lot of people hating the Jews right now.

00:38:45.000 Would you elaborate more specifically on what you're talking about?

00:38:50.000 Yeah, and not everyone who is against Israel hates the Jews.

00:38:53.000 But everyone who hates the Jews is against Israel.

00:38:55.000 So it's an important connection.

00:38:57.000 Look, I mean, it's coming from both sides.

00:38:59.000 We all see what's happening on social media.

00:39:01.000 There is this kind of temptation to blame the Jews for all of your problems.

00:39:05.000 I think it's sloppy and it's wrong.

00:39:06.000 No group is perfect.

00:39:08.000 No group is going to act in a, you know, in a directionally consistent way.

00:39:13.000 But look, I think that it's, at least in my country, I don't know if you guys are seeing a similar rise in the United Kingdom, but I think that there is this temptation to say that all the world's suffering is because of a small group of people, many of whom I have not met.

00:39:28.000 And I reject that wholeheartedly.

00:39:30.000 But would you say the criticism is of the Jews or of the state of Israel?

00:39:34.000 Oh no, those are two different things.

00:39:35.000 So there are three issues here, and that's a very good question.

00:39:38.000 And we must have the maturity to differentiate them.

00:39:40.000 And in the Q&A, we could talk Israel, Gaza, whatever you want, obviously.

00:39:43.000 But there is a difference between Jews, Israel, and the Israeli government.

00:39:47.000 And I acknowledge those differences.

00:39:49.000 So Jews are, you know, is a very complicated thing because it's a people, but it's also a religion, and it's an ancestry, but it's a culture.

00:39:57.000 Almost nothing like it in the world, right?

00:39:59.000 Where you're kind of born into it and you can be like an atheistic Jew, but there's also like a religious text.

00:40:03.000 And then there is Israel, which I believe is fundamental to Judaism.

00:40:07.000 God tore Israel is the informal like trinity of Judaism. 0.99

00:40:10.000 And then the Israeli government.

00:40:11.000 You can support Jewish life and support Jews and support Israel, but not support this current Israeli government.

00:40:16.000 It's a perfectly mature view to have.

00:40:18.000 It's fine.

00:40:18.000 Like I have disagreements with Netanyahu.

00:40:21.000 I have agreements.

00:40:21.000 I think it's okay.

00:40:22.000 But I actually think we could de-escalate.

00:40:24.000 A lot of the finger-pointing around this issue, if we look at it through that lens, that anyone who says, like, oh, we're going to blame the Jews, well, then that's the first, like, no one here rationally, I think, if you believe that, then we could talk about it.

00:40:37.000 But then if you're like, well, I don't think Israel should exist, or I don't like Israel, okay, that's another step, but that's a more reasonable argument, one I wouldn't share. 1.00

00:40:44.000 But then if you're criticizing the Israeli government, so where I think a problem emerges is where my side, where I am pro-Israel, we conflate those three things, and we immediately say, That you're against Netanyahu, therefore you're against the Jews.

00:40:57.000 I'm sorry, I think that's immature, it's sloppy, and it actually creates more resentment where it otherwise would not exist.

00:41:05.000 Thank you.

00:41:05.000 On the state of Israel in terms of its existence.

00:41:09.000 I was going to leave it to the Q&A, but we started.

00:41:13.000 Just a question, your belief in the state of Israel existing in its current form, is it biblical or is it just a political belief?

00:41:20.000 Okay, so you asked, is it biblical or what?

00:41:23.000 So is your belief on the current state of Israel, where it is and how it's formed, is that belief biblical?

00:41:30.000 I'm not a theologian, but I am definitely more, let's say, aligned with a view of Ezekiel 36, that there is a reconstitution of the state of Israel, and that was prophesied.

00:41:42.000 I will bring you from across the lands and graft you together. 0.68

00:41:45.000 I don't want to get into that.

00:41:46.000 Again, if you guys want to talk about end times theology, I'm honestly going to be like, let's get a more important question because I don't know it that well.

00:41:52.000 I'm not that interested in it.

00:41:53.000 It's called eschatology.

00:41:55.000 There's pre-tribulation Christians and then there's post-tribulation Christians. 0.53

00:41:59.000 I'm pan-trib.

00:42:00.000 It's all going to pan out in the end.

00:42:02.000 Jesus will return.

00:42:03.000 I'm going to be on the welcoming committee, not the planning committee.

00:42:07.000 Like, I'm not overly interested in that.

00:42:09.000 I'm instead, I think what is lost...

00:42:30.000 it is a miracle considering they were attacked from every direction, from its charter, completely under attack, and totally brutalized.

00:42:37.000 Number two, it's interesting because in the Balfour Declaration, as you will know, it actually was the smallest suggested size for Israel as of all the four plans.

00:42:46.000 All that to say, what do I believe about the current composition of the state of Israel?

00:42:51.000 My historical analysis of whether it should be formed or not, I actually think it should be, is not that relevant.

00:42:57.000 The more important moral question is what do you think about what is happening right now?

00:43:01.000 Do you think that Israel has, I don't like the, I think it's a little bit of a cop out. 0.95

00:43:09.000 I think more importantly, do you believe that a country has a right to be able to defend itself into existence?

00:43:15.000 That's a more important question.

00:43:16.000 That if a country can prove to you that it can exist, should it then be given recognition?

00:43:22.000 So, I don't know if that answers your question.

00:43:24.000 It's kind of just a mind dump on the topic.

00:43:25.000 I seek to actually find reconciliation on this.

00:43:29.000 I think there is a downplaying what happens on October 7th to a great detriment.

00:43:33.000 And I think that at times, those of us that are pro-Zero need to acknowledge war is awful.

00:43:37.000 War is brutal.

00:43:37.000 I'm a Christian.

00:43:38.000 I hate when I see these videos of these kids being killed.

00:43:40.000 It's terrible.

00:43:41.000 I want to see this come to an end.

00:43:42.000 I mean, like, who can possibly see that and support that?

00:43:45.000 And anyone who's like, for example, like Nikki Haley signing bombs that are going to be dropped in Gaza, like, that's repulsive.

00:43:49.000 I'm sorry, that's disgusting, okay?

00:43:51.000 Like, that's going to be used against people that shouldn't, like, that are just complete casualties in the war.

00:43:55.000 And so, yeah, I hope that offers some clarity on that.

00:43:59.000 Thank you.

00:44:00.000 But then in terms of the question of being pro-Israel and the right of Israel to exist, when Palestine very much exists and they're fighting for their own self-determination, how do you reconcile both?

00:44:12.000 So, I would push back a little bit.

00:44:14.000 I think what some well-meaning Arabs are doing in the West Bank is righteous. 0.95

00:44:19.000 What Hamas did on October 7th was not a fight for self-determination.

00:44:23.000 I would find great exception to that claim.

00:44:27.000 1,300 people going in on a holy day on Shema Torah, 50 days after the Six-Day War on Shabbat, to go to kibbutzes and a music festival to kill 1,300 people and take 200 hostages.

00:44:41.000 All while filming it on GoPro cameras, and then some of which, not all, calling back to their relatives on WhatsApp saying, I just killed 10 Jews. 0.88

00:44:48.000 Can you believe it? 0.98

00:44:48.000 I just killed 10 Jews. 0.98

00:44:49.000 I'm sorry, that's not a fight for self-determination. 0.73

00:44:51.000 That's something horrific and brutal and evil that every human being with a conscience says that's wrong, and we don't support that.

00:44:57.000 And so, again, as far as this idea of self-determination, there are important, and these are not trap questions.

00:45:03.000 The settlements make it very difficult in the West Bank.

00:45:05.000 What is a Palestinian?

00:45:07.000 What are the borders?

00:45:07.000 Who's in charge?

00:45:09.000 Again, and it also kind of goes back to this because I also have to throw it back.

00:45:13.000 Some people believe that Palestine or whatever the state will be called, let's just call it PA, is from the river to the sea.

00:45:19.000 Okay, so then you don't believe in a Jewish state.

00:45:22.000 I come from the premise that I think a Jewish state should exist.

00:45:25.000 If you want a Palestinian state, tell me where, tell me who, tell me how, and I will be open-minded to hear that contention.

00:45:31.000 But if it's nothing more than the eradication of Jewry between You know, Jerusalem to Tel Aviv and Haifa. 0.93

00:45:37.000 I'm sorry. 0.83

00:45:38.000 That's where now we're blurring on going backwards, not forwards, from, okay, we're going from Israeli government to Israel to some problem with the Jews.

00:45:44.000 Does that make sense?

00:45:45.000 That kind of gradation of regression, I think, is very harmful to the dialogue.

00:45:50.000 Thank you.

00:45:51.000 Moving on slightly topic-wise, you've argued that systematic racism does not exist within US policing.

00:45:57.000 However, many black and white Americans say black...

00:46:05.000 What evidence do you rely to support your view about systematic racism not existing in U.S. policing?

00:46:10.000 Yeah, so I think you're saying it's not your fault.

00:46:13.000 Systemic racism, right?

00:46:14.000 Yeah, you're great.

00:46:15.000 So, I mean, show me the data.

00:46:17.000 A police officer is actually 18 and a half times more likely to be shot by a black person than vice versa.

00:46:22.000 There's only about 12 unarmed black people in America that are shot every single year that are unarmed.

00:46:26.000 It's true.

00:46:27.000 According to the Washington Post data, it's only 10 to 15 people.

00:46:29.000 And respectfully, you said black people say, I don't care what people say.

00:46:34.000 Show me the evidence.

00:46:35.000 Like, people make stuff up all the time, and there's a self-confirming bias loop.

00:46:39.000 Is there evidence of this?

00:46:40.000 The evidence is very clear.

00:46:41.000 Black Americans make up 13% of the U.S. population. 0.82

00:46:44.000 They make up anywhere between 55 to 60% of the murders. 0.90

00:46:48.000 The thefts and the carjackings.

00:46:50.000 There is a disproportional crime problem in America, and I don't like it.

00:46:53.000 It's just what the data is.

00:46:54.000 And again, I would prefer not to talk about race all the time, but the data is the data.

00:46:58.000 When you commit more crimes, you have more interactions with the police, and therefore when you have more interactions with the police, some of them might go sour.

00:47:04.000 Thank you.

00:47:05.000 So given that a lot of your data that you use about kind of like black people, arrests and convictions, How do you account for the fact that many crimes go unreported and unsolved, but also that Black Americans are statistically more likely to be wrongfully convicted?

00:47:23.000 Okay, yes.

00:47:24.000 So the wrongfully convicted, it might be right, it might not be right.

00:47:29.000 It's more about the quality of your lawyer and the income level. 0.77

00:47:32.000 And yes, Black Americans are per capita poorer than white Americans. 0.93

00:47:36.000 But I'll say something provocative. 0.98

00:47:38.000 If we actually solved all the murders in Chicago, the black portion of murders would go up, not down. 0.65

00:47:43.000 You know that only 50% of murders in Chicago get solved, and they're almost all in black, densely neighborhood gang violence. 0.50

00:47:48.000 So those don't even get reported in the crime statistics. 0.70

00:47:51.000 So if we solved every murder in Chicago, it would go up from 60% of the murders are black to like 75% of the murders are black. 0.93

00:47:57.000 And so we actually have a major unsolving problem in America of black violence. 1.00

00:48:03.000 Most of it is black-on-black violence that shouldn't care. 1.00

00:48:06.000 Every human being matters.

00:48:07.000 Like, I don't actually like that talking point very much.

00:48:10.000 What was the other...

00:48:13.000 Okay.

00:48:14.000 And then my last question on the topic is then looking at systematic bias and over-policing in poorer areas, which have an equal access to justice, as you've discussed with things like being able to pay for a better lawyer and how they all contribute to the outcomes.

00:48:28.000 Would you say that actually it's a cultural kind of like impact in terms of?

00:48:34.000 No, I have a totally different view.

00:48:36.000 I think we need more police, not less police in these neighborhoods.

00:48:38.000 In fact, in New York, when we started to enforce more heavy policing in black-only neighborhoods, murder rates went down dramatically.

00:48:44.000 Theft went down dramatically.

00:48:45.000 And so the question is actually not too much police.

00:48:48.000 It's lack of policing.

00:48:49.000 In America, we have two measurable correlative effects.

00:48:53.000 It's called the Ferguson effect and the Floyd effect.

00:48:55.000 These are two major race hysterias that occurred in our country and that subsequent after we saw the police retreat. 0.69

00:49:01.000 Because they say, we're not welcome here.

00:49:03.000 We're going to be called things not.

00:49:05.000 That's not true.

00:49:06.000 And we saw crime rates skyrocket.

00:49:08.000 In fact, the murder rate in America post-Floyd went to record levels.

00:49:12.000 We hadn't seen since the 1990s, which thankfully we brought down over the last 20 to 30 years.

00:49:17.000 I don't know how you guys view police here in the UK.

00:49:19.000 Police are constantly under attack in America.

00:49:21.000 They're very much maligned.

00:49:23.000 They're very much criticized and scrutinized.

00:49:26.000 Generally, I think police are trying to do the right thing.

00:49:28.000 They're there to help you.

00:49:29.000 They're there to support you.

00:49:31.000 And when there is violence or crime, you want to have a police officer around.

00:49:36.000 And there is a direct correlation in the states.

00:49:38.000 The amount of police officers in a densely populated area equals to the level of violent crime.

00:49:43.000 More police officers equals less violent crime.

00:49:46.000 Thank you.

00:49:47.000 My next question is about some of the views you've expressed regarding being trans.

00:49:52.000 So you've previously expressed the view that people who identify as trans are part of a social contagion due to causes such as bullying and autism.

00:50:00.000 Why do you hold this position and what evidence do you have to support this position?

00:50:04.000 I mean, it's true.

00:50:05.000 I mean, first of all, you can't be what you are not, very fundamentally.

00:50:10.000 So if you are a man, you can't become a woman. 0.99

00:50:12.000 If you're a woman, you can't become a man. 1.00

00:50:14.000 As far as the bullying, we know this because of the skyrocketing rates of peer pressure, social contagion data.

00:50:22.000 In fact, the Cass report was one of the most interesting ones.

00:50:25.000 You guys are actually better on the trans issue than us.

00:50:27.000 Don't mess it up, guys, please.

00:50:29.000 Your Supreme Court actually defined, I think, what was it?

00:50:33.000 A man is a man and a woman is a woman. 1.00

00:50:35.000 They actually had clarity on this topic recently.

00:50:39.000 By the way, you all can agree that J.K. Rowling is a hero?

00:50:41.000 Yes?

00:50:42.000 It's so funny how the left will no longer applaud their heroes when you differentiate from the faith.

00:50:47.000 Everyone loved J.K. Rowling.

00:50:48.000 She's wonderful.

00:50:49.000 Make her a dame. 1.00

00:50:50.000 She's the best.

00:50:51.000 Oh, she says that a woman is a woman and a man is a man? 1.00

00:50:55.000 Crucify her.

00:50:57.000 Think about it. 0.74

00:50:58.000 You know I'm right.

00:51:01.000 People say, I don't see much of J.K. Rowling.

00:51:03.000 I wonder why.

00:51:04.000 Because the zealots no longer allow her.

00:51:06.000 Because the puritanical view of the trans.

00:51:10.000 Does not allow such dissension or disagreement from one of your former heroes.

00:51:14.000 Okay, to your question.

00:51:15.000 Yeah, look, as far as my evidence, Dr. Miriam Grossman has a great book on this called Lost in Transnation.

00:51:21.000 The emergent...

00:51:25.000 You guys can laugh all you want, but there's something sick and medieval and awful about chopping off a 14-year-old's breast just because they're going through a momentary time of puberty anxiety.

00:51:34.000 Something that your own government has recognized with the Cass Report, and I encourage you to read it.

00:51:39.000 And you guys were like the leader of gender-affirming care, puberty transition surgery in London.

00:51:44.000 And thankfully, because of some sane minds in this country, you guys have slowed it down to either a halt or I think completely closed it.

00:51:51.000 I know there's been some debate of chemical interventions versus surgical.

00:51:55.000 I don't know if that probably doesn't answer your question, but a man is a man and a woman is a woman.

00:52:00.000 Thank you.

00:52:02.000 And then my last question before I throw it to the audience is, Turning Point USA is known for advocating for free speech on college campuses.

00:52:08.000 What do you see as the biggest threat to free expression in higher education today?

00:52:13.000 The left.

00:52:15.000 Would you like to elaborate?

00:52:17.000 Well, you've been great, I have to say.

00:52:19.000 Much better than Cambridge.

00:52:20.000 She's been terrific.

00:52:22.000 The Cambridge one, she read my Wikipedia.

00:52:24.000 She was like, well, in this part of the Wikipedia, I said, what are you doing?

00:52:27.000 You go to Cambridge.

00:52:30.000 Well, that explains it, right?

00:52:32.000 That explains it.

00:52:41.000 My challenge, and you guys have been great.

00:52:43.000 I have to give you all credit.

00:52:44.000 I've said some things that you would think would be provocative.

00:52:46.000 In the States, what I've said is actually now mainline conservatism, because we've moved that Overton window rather dramatically, is my wish for the left.

00:52:58.000 Is that you will become liberal again and no longer leftist.

00:53:02.000 Free speech is a liberal value.

00:53:03.000 It is not a left-wing value.

00:53:05.000 It is wrong, and I'm sure we'll talk about this in the Q&A, but as of today, Lucy Connelly is going to jail for two and a half years in this country for a social media post that she apologized and deleted about a migrant hotel.

00:53:20.000 That is not a free speech value at all.

00:53:22.000 You should be allowed to say outrageous things.

00:53:25.000 You should be allowed to say contrarian things.

00:53:28.000 Free speech is a birthright that you gave us, and you guys decided not to codify it, and now it's poof, it's basically gone.

00:53:34.000 And I think there's something really troubling about that, because I want you to imagine one day that reform might take over this government.

00:53:43.000 You guys can laugh.

00:53:44.000 But they're winning elections in downtown London.

00:53:47.000 Farage is ascendant.

00:53:48.000 There is a silent majority in this country.

00:53:50.000 I see this.

00:53:50.000 Oh, I'm going to really scare you.

00:53:51.000 I see the same themes that led to Trump's rise in this country.

00:53:54.000 I see it with the working class in the streets of London.

00:53:57.000 I see the muscular class.

00:53:58.000 I see people coming up to me.

00:53:59.000 It's the same vibe.

00:54:00.000 You guys are about to see a political revolution, if the stars align, that could mirror what happened in America.

00:54:06.000 So when that happens, do you want Nigel Farage, prime minister, to be able to lock you up if you criticize his government?

00:54:14.000 If your answer is no, then you have a moral obligation to make sure that your Prime Minister and the MPs advocate for a value-neutral free speech policy so regardless of who is in power in this country, you guys can challenge and you guys can speak openly.

00:54:30.000 That is the bedrock of a liberal democracy.

00:54:32.000 Thank you.

00:54:34.000 Thank you.

00:54:45.000 Thank you so much.

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00:55:42.000 So check it out right now.

00:55:44.000 refi.com and I'm going to shoot to The show trial will begin?

00:55:51.000 Yes.

00:55:53.000 I think one of the best ways to bolster an argument, to construct an argument, is to foresee potential counterarguments and to address them.

00:56:02.000 And because you've been doing this for quite some time and you're well-versed in what you believe in your ideologies and your beliefs, if you were in my position, what would you ask yourself that would be most effective in challenging those core tenets?

00:56:21.000 I didn't expect that.

00:56:22.000 So respectful and thoughtful.

00:56:24.000 I don't know if you're a liberal or not.

00:56:26.000 I don't know.

00:56:26.000 But it's implied in your question that you are.

00:56:29.000 Is that correct or not?

00:56:30.000 Because you said, what would you believe as your core tenants?

00:56:33.000 I don't know.

00:56:34.000 But anyway, do you want to remark?

00:56:35.000 I take it as a compliment.

00:56:37.000 Okay, that's fine.

00:56:39.000 Always come into every conversation believing that you might be wrong and that you might learn something.

00:56:45.000 And you guys go here to a ridiculously old institution that has some of the greatest thinkers that I admire, Tolkien, Lewis, I mean the list goes on.

00:56:56.000 And I don't know the core canon of what you are studying, but I can definitely tell you in America there is a de-emphasis of the thinkers and of the writers that were once, let's just say, embedded within the core curriculum of a place like this.

00:57:14.000 And I would encourage all of you that are intellectually honest, that are on the left, that are liberals, to know what conservatives believe better than conservatives.

00:57:23.000 Read our literature.

00:57:24.000 Read C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity. 0.76

00:57:27.000 Go read Edmund Burke.

00:57:28.000 Go read Russell Kirk, of which I share a name.

00:57:31.000 No relation.

00:57:32.000 Go read Milton Friedman.

00:57:34.000 Understand it.

00:57:35.000 Spend time with it.

00:57:36.000 Treat it with respect.

00:57:38.000 Don't just do it as a passerby.

00:57:39.000 Because the very few, and there is a couple, Right-wing students in this room, they've done that to all the left-wing ideas.

00:57:47.000 No, it's fine.

00:57:48.000 I'm calling them out.

00:57:50.000 Because they've done that with the left-wing ideas.

00:57:53.000 They've had to.

00:57:54.000 You cannot proceed in many universities without having to reckon and reconcile with that.

00:57:58.000 So I hope that answers your question.

00:57:59.000 Thank you.

00:57:59.000 I just want to quickly follow on from that.

00:58:02.000 I did my undergrad in the U.S. What school?

00:58:05.000 Michigan State.

00:58:06.000 Oh, go Spartans, yeah.

00:58:10.000 And so here and there, I've been labeled leftist, rightist, so I've heard us all.

00:58:16.000 I hate labels, honestly.

00:58:18.000 You seem very sweet.

00:58:19.000 Thank you.

00:58:20.000 And I wanted to know if you believe that...

00:58:25.000 I know your views on college education specifically in the US and that you believe that it does not deliver what it should.

00:58:32.000 Do you think that whether right or wrong that the Yes.

00:58:44.000 I'm sorry to interrupt you.

00:58:45.000 Keep going.

00:58:46.000 You're exactly right.

00:58:47.000 This is a barrier that I have to overcome.

00:58:49.000 I did not go to university or college.

00:58:51.000 I just went straight into doing stuff.

00:58:53.000 And the criticism I get is, well, you didn't go to college, therefore you're not capable of dialoguing.

00:58:58.000 That is inherently an argument from authority.

00:59:01.000 But yes, that is a good argument.

00:59:03.000 If you want to be taken seriously, because it's of course a barrier, because it actually only motivates me more to learn more and to dive deeper and to become better understanding of these ideas.

00:59:15.000 But yes, there is a, at least in the states of which you studied your undergrad, there is an emphasis on the credential.

00:59:22.000 However, that also plays into my core argument as the indictment of the current state of the academy.

00:59:26.000 If it is a credential, then it's a very expensive, time-intensive credential.

00:59:32.000 Just to be able to have people take you more seriously.

00:59:34.000 And that is kind of like the downfall of what do you do instead of like, where did you go?

00:59:38.000 And I don't like that.

00:59:40.000 Right.

00:59:40.000 Thank you very much.

00:59:41.000 Thank you.

00:59:42.000 Thank you.

00:59:49.000 I wanted to ask you something you probably never talked about.

00:59:53.000 Never?

00:59:53.000 Yeah.

00:59:54.000 Abortion.

00:59:54.000 Oh, yeah.

00:59:56.000 Now, if you make an argument I never heard, I will give you great credit.

00:59:59.000 So, yeah, I wanted to basically try to determine whether you, as you, I believe, suggest, believe that abortion in case of rape should be illegal because of the right to life being absolute, or that the right to life is supposed to be weighted against autonomy and freedom, but just the burden of carrying a child of a rapist is simply insufficient to justify abortion.

01:00:28.000 And if I may, I would use a thought experiment for that.

01:00:33.000 Is it the violinist?

01:00:35.000 A modified version of it.

01:00:36.000 See, I've heard it all, man.

01:00:38.000 It's Oxford.

01:00:38.000 You've got to go deeper, man.

01:00:40.000 I'm going to be honest.

01:00:40.000 I've got hundreds of hours on this topic.

01:00:42.000 Give me something I haven't heard.

01:00:43.000 It is deeper.

01:00:44.000 So the question is whether you would...

01:00:55.000 So the Society of Music Lovers has determined that your wife is the only person that can save the life of a famous violinist.

01:01:01.000 They have kidnapped her and their circulatory systems are currently attached.

01:01:06.000 She can detach from the violinist.

01:01:08.000 It will be safe for her, but it will lead to the violinist's death.

01:01:11.000 The question is, would you be willing to force her to stay attached to the violinist for nine months?

01:01:18.000 The next question is, would your answer change if it was 10, 11, 12 months, her whole life, if perhaps she was supposed to be bedridden for the whole time for the sake of seeing what happens if the burden significantly increases?

01:01:34.000 Well, the second part of the question is irrelevant because it's only for nine months.

01:01:37.000 So you keep it applicable to the topic at hand, correct?

01:01:40.000 Otherwise, it's a completely irrelevant moral question.

01:01:42.000 Secondly, just to be clear, You're not kidnapped when you get pregnant, so I don't quite understand the analogy, right?

01:01:51.000 Number three, yes, I mean, I always found this analogy outrageous.

01:01:58.000 If you're asking me or my wife, my wife would answer, if I have to suffer for nine months so that another being will assuredly get life, I will do that.

01:02:07.000 That's how she would answer.

01:02:09.000 Yeah, so the question is whether the drive of life is absolute or whether some level of inconvenience can be taken into account or rather burden can be taken into account and weighed against it.

01:02:23.000 In this case, I'm asking what if it was, for example, for her whole life?

01:02:28.000 It's not irrelevant.

01:02:29.000 I haven't thought deeply about it, honestly, but it's not relevant because pregnancy is at a nine-month window.

01:02:34.000 So it's not relevant to my abortion view.

01:02:36.000 Well, the burden is also different of being attached to someone, a violinist. 0.94

01:02:42.000 The burden is completely different to carrying a rapist, a child of a rapist.

01:02:47.000 So I do acknowledge that the burdens are different.

01:02:50.000 The question is whether there is a burden that could be weighed against the right to life, and if in this case you just believe The only burden would be life for the mother.

01:03:03.000 So you would force your wife, sister. 0.99

01:03:06.000 You would be willing No, I would be willing to do whatever is necessary to not have a human being eliminated.

01:03:13.000 And I guess, is it a human being in the womb?

01:03:16.000 Yes or no?

01:03:17.000 Yes.

01:03:18.000 then why don't you get the human being rights?

01:03:19.000 Well, that's what I'm trying to just, Why does that human not get rights?

01:03:24.000 And you do.

01:03:25.000 Well, my question is, Why do you get rights and the baby doesn't?

01:03:31.000 I'm not saying it doesn't.

01:03:32.000 Yeah.

01:03:33.000 Your right to life, eliminate it.

01:03:34.000 That's the first and most fundamental right of the West.

01:03:36.000 Why don't you get that right to the baby? 1.00

01:03:39.000 Well, I'm not saying I'm not.

01:03:39.000 Yes, you are.

01:03:40.000 No, I'm not.

01:03:41.000 I'm asking whether you would force your wife. 0.97

01:03:42.000 Well, no, I'm not in a second.

01:03:44.000 Very fundamentally, do you believe that every human being has a right to life, regardless of how small you are or what level of development that you are on?

01:03:51.000 I do believe that every person does have a right to life.

01:03:53.000 You do not believe that?

01:03:54.000 I do.

01:03:55.000 Okay, then we agree.

01:03:55.000 Abortion should be eliminated, not love.

01:03:57.000 And you would force your mother, sorry, you would force your wife to stay with a violinist.

01:04:01.000 Again, you are gruesomely describing a universal truth that we will protect life no matter how small or level of development in the environment or the degree of dependency.

01:04:10.000 And again, I will throw it back to you because it's very easy to use this analogy to make it seem like I'm unreasonable.

01:04:15.000 But you're actually the unreasonable one here, saying that I will eliminate the human being just because, for what reason?

01:04:21.000 There is no excuse for murder, period.

01:04:24.000 We believe that in the West, correct?

01:04:26.000 Now, you want to make the self-defense argument, we can go back there.

01:04:28.000 I've heard every argument. 0.94

01:04:29.000 They've heard that the baby's a parasite. 0.95

01:04:30.000 I've heard the baby's an invader.

01:04:31.000 I've heard the baby that is, you know, currently taking the nutrients.

01:04:34.000 None of them are morally applicable to the actual circumstance of gestation.

01:04:39.000 Period.

01:04:39.000 Every human being has a right to life.

01:04:41.000 You can check your notes again if you'd like.

01:04:42.000 But every human being has a right to life.

01:04:45.000 Yes or no?

01:04:46.000 It's what built the West.

01:04:47.000 Well, it's what I'm asking.

01:04:49.000 It's the only thing I wanted to ask.

01:04:51.000 You got your answer.

01:04:53.000 No, I understand.

01:04:53.000 What you are doing is a rhetorical trap.

01:04:55.000 I've answered it completely, which is this.

01:04:57.000 I stand for the abolition of abortion in all circumstances against life of the mother because life matters.

01:05:02.000 Every human being, I believe, is made in the image of the divine, is sacred, is unique, and if we get away from this principle as we have, we not only have moral degradation, we not only have the collapsing society around us, but it's bad for that being itself.

01:05:15.000 That being itself is unique.

01:05:16.000 That being has rights.

01:05:18.000 And who are we to say, just because we're older, that we get to murder it?

01:05:21.000 Thank you.

01:05:29.000 I likewise have an abortion-related question.

01:05:32.000 So the Constitution refers to citizens and persons, but it does not explicitly define when life begins.

01:05:39.000 In your view, who should define this question when we have a near split of liberals and conservatives in our country?

01:05:46.000 Specifically, Alabama and Delaware have defined the start of life differently.

01:05:51.000 Alabama treats the question as life beginning at conception.

01:05:54.000 Since you can't kill a person, you're not permitted to get an abortion.

01:05:59.000 Whereas Delaware defines the start of life at the time when the fetus is viable outside of the mother.

01:06:05.000 Therefore, Delaware permits abortion up until viability at about 24 to 26 weeks.

01:06:11.000 Since it's not in the Constitution, who should make a countrywide decision when liberals and conservatives have answered this question differently?

01:06:18.000 It's a good question.

01:06:19.000 Right now, the answer, the Supreme Court has said, the localest jurisdiction possible.

01:06:23.000 And then we'll work our way up from there.

01:06:24.000 We aim to abolish abortion the same way we aim to abolish slavery in the 1860s. 0.59

01:06:29.000 And they are moral equivalents.

01:06:31.000 In fact, one is arguably worse.

01:06:33.000 So the states should decide.

01:06:35.000 Yeah, that's what it is.

01:06:35.000 Yeah, right now, the local jurisdiction.

01:06:37.000 You can get down to the county level.

01:06:38.000 We have county hospitals that have issues on this.

01:06:41.000 We have jurisdiction.

01:06:42.000 So the most local, the better.

01:06:44.000 That will de-radicalize the position and give us space to make the moral argument, which I continue to be on a quest to do so.

01:06:50.000 And you would therefore respect Delaware's position on this matter?

01:06:53.000 Well, I mean, yes, the states have sovereignty to do that for the time being.

01:06:56.000 But of course, we are going to push for a national vote when we win.

01:07:02.000 My position on abortion is unpopular in my country.

01:07:06.000 I don't want to scare you guys too much.

01:07:08.000 I am in the vast minority of my own political party on this issue.

01:07:12.000 Proudly.

01:07:13.000 Because I'm morally correct.

01:07:14.000 I'm on the right side of history.

01:07:16.000 When all the chips are down and when all the biology is settled, it will be very simple and very clear that we have made every excuse in the book.

01:07:24.000 To try to eliminate life smaller than us for simply inconveniences.

01:07:28.000 So yes, right now we respect Delaware.

01:07:30.000 We respect Michigan.

01:07:31.000 Respect all of that.

01:07:32.000 But we have all intents to march every way through the institutions, from the cultural places of power and eventually political, to abolish abortion in America.

01:07:40.000 Thank you.

01:07:41.000 Thank you.

01:07:46.000 Hey Charlie, so I wanted to return to a comment you made earlier about You liken them to the Peter Pan movie.

01:07:54.000 Oh, okay.

01:07:54.000 Yeah, yeah.

01:07:56.000 So when we're talking about Red Bull Media as being a large influence, and I wanted to define that.

01:08:01.000 It's a reference to the matrix in which a lot of these media Yeah, talk about unplugging yourself.

01:08:07.000 And it's about waking up to the realization that, you know, there is a active attack on masculinity that men's rights need to be, you know, that men are being oppressed in a way and that, And, you know, many people have attributed the red pill media to rise in, like, this almost generation of lost boys.

01:08:30.000 I kind of wanted to get your opinion on kind of, like, do you see this generation of lost boys as a failure of, like, say, masculinity?

01:08:38.000 Or are there potential other factors, economic, social factors, such as, you know, the death of the American dream, increasing costs of living in America, increased costs of education?

01:08:48.000 Are there, like, Any other reasons as to why this generation of lost boys might exist, or do you basically attribute it to your choice?

01:08:54.000 I acknowledge all of that, of course.

01:08:57.000 It's a very good faith question, and thank you. 0.74

01:08:59.000 In America, we made a stupid decision in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s to shut down our factories in the middle part of the country and basically disenfranchise and deindustrialize tens of millions of working class men and tell them to go move to the cities and learn to code. 0.75

01:09:13.000 I said this in the previous Q&A, but I can again, which is that... 0.92

01:09:24.000 Now it takes upwards of 60 weeks of labor a year.

01:09:26.000 However, given all the economic and social and all those factors, the largest of all of them is the cultural and the educational that has infantilized men and hyper-feminized them in the messaging, in the outreach, and in the treatment.

01:09:42.000 And so I can give you specific examples.

01:09:45.000 Yeah, in what way has the education system infantilized men?

01:09:48.000 I mean, every possible way, from the hypermedication of young men, from in the core curriculum in America, we learn about toxic masculinity from ages eight in public schools in California and in New York.

01:10:02.000 We never talk about toxic femininity.

01:10:03.000 Do you agree that there's toxic femininity as well?

01:10:06.000 I mean, I think it's an unfair double standard.

01:10:08.000 Why?

01:10:09.000 How can femininity not be toxic if masculinity can? 0.96

01:10:12.000 I'm not saying they can't be.

01:10:13.000 Do we teach kids about toxic femininity in our schools? 1.00

01:10:16.000 No, tell me, yes or no.

01:10:17.000 I mean, I think that they come from two very different places.

01:10:19.000 I think toxic masculinity comes from a level of misogyny, where I think toxic femininity often comes from a reaction to a misogynistic system which fundamentally oppresses and systematically oppresses women. 0.73

01:10:32.000 And I'm not saying that toxic femininity is a good thing, but I'm saying it's a much more understood and valid reaction to a system of oppression versus toxic masculinity which oppresses.

01:10:44.000 Okay.

01:10:47.000 So, even if I grant you that, even if I grant you that, are they teaching toxic, is that term ever been used in a school that you know of?

01:10:55.000 What term?

01:10:56.000 Toxic femininity? 1.00

01:10:58.000 No, it's not.

01:10:59.000 Oh, that's weird.

01:11:00.000 So only one sex gets criticized and called toxic.

01:11:03.000 Maybe that creates a backlash. 1.00

01:11:04.000 Because one is creating a system of oppression.

01:11:06.000 Oh, no, that's your interpretation.

01:11:08.000 No, you can make every excuse under the book that you'd like.

01:11:10.000 But only one chromosome set gets criticized, called that they're terrible and awful, and that women basically need to go into the corporate world with no reservation, and young men see this pattern in the West and in our country from the authors, from the curriculum, from the music, from the movies, and we see, and of course, again, in the educational system proper.

01:11:35.000 We have seen the infantilization of the young male.

01:11:38.000 And so it's just, again, we know the data, you did agree to it, that young men are checking out completely.

01:11:43.000 But we're actually living under a hyper-feminist West that is toxic. 1.00

01:11:47.000 What does that mean?

01:11:48.000 Speech police, feelings first, emotion over reason, community over individualism.

01:11:54.000 We're seeing this.

01:11:55.000 And by the way, is it working?

01:11:57.000 Is the West stronger as it's become more feminine in the last 30 years? 0.98

01:12:00.000 No.

01:12:01.000 In fact, our morale is weaker.

01:12:03.000 We're more suicidal.

01:12:04.000 Our fertility rates are down.

01:12:05.000 We have lost the balance.

01:12:07.000 We've lost the yin and the yang between the male and the female. 0.99

01:12:10.000 We lost what worked, and we have hyper-platformed.

01:12:12.000 Your own crime minister, Boris Johnson, when he was talking at a summit, said we need to actually make things more feminine.

01:12:20.000 Could you imagine if he said we need to make things more masculine?

01:12:23.000 How does that sound to a dock worker in Brighton or someone in Essex?

01:12:27.000 We need to make things more feminine? 1.00

01:12:29.000 No, instead, we need By the way, you want an example?

01:12:37.000 Adolescence.

01:12:38.000 How does that movie Adolescence not broadly generalize a theme that, first of all, doesn't exist?

01:12:44.000 Secondly, is like a slow-motion humiliation ritual for the young boys of Britain.

01:12:53.000 Could you imagine if there was a similar movie criticizing young women that are like how they are the ones that are driving men away about how catty they are, about how they don't want to be. 1.00

01:13:06.000 I'll just complete the point.

01:13:08.000 I could give you data point after data point, and I would ask you the question, has the West grown stronger the more effeminate has become?

01:13:17.000 You've said a lot.

01:13:19.000 Yes, that's how a Q&A works.

01:13:21.000 You ask the question and I answer, so I am the speaker.

01:13:24.000 You know that's how it works.

01:13:27.000 Okay, so on your point about adolescence, I don't think adolescence is a generalization.

01:13:31.000 We are not saying that every young boy in the UK is like this.

01:13:33.000 We're not saying every young boy goes through this process.

01:13:35.000 It's an example of what can happen when people fall into this kind of media.

01:13:39.000 I think it's like, and it's more of a story or warning to what can happen to people that, you know, fall into these bubbles, who don't find the help that they necessarily need, that can turn violent.

01:13:52.000 And like, this is a perfect example of toxic masculinity in which...

01:14:02.000 We've also then seen within men, the largest contributor to men's deaths right now is male suicide.

01:14:09.000 But I would argue that is not a factor of feminization, but instead a factor of masculinity.

01:14:15.000 The idea that men can't be in touch with their feelings.

01:14:17.000 You talked about a feeling-first approach being effeminate.

01:14:20.000 So men are simply not allowed to engage with their feelings at all.

01:14:23.000 Men are not allowed to talk about their feelings. 0.65

01:14:25.000 These are large contributors to a massive problem within men's spaces that lead to what is the highest contributor to men's death, suicide.

01:14:33.000 And I think this idea that, you know, And, you know, men's mental health was never an issue before, like the 90s or whatever it was when we used to start affirming men's mental health.

01:14:47.000 I think it's an unfair point to make, and I think it doesn't speak to a lot of issues that a lot of young men face.

01:14:55.000 And I think it's a dishonest way to go about talking about this conversation.

01:14:59.000 Okay, so which part would you like me to respond to?

01:15:04.000 Let's go to the point about male suicide and masculinity.

01:15:08.000 So your point, if it was true that men have always been miserable, why have the suicide rates gone up?

01:15:13.000 Well, because we've started recording suicides better.

01:15:16.000 It's not to say that suicides didn't occur on this level.

01:15:20.000 It's just we simply have better ways of recording. 0.99

01:15:21.000 That's rubbish.

01:15:23.000 Body bags are data that transcends any sort of manipulation. 0.97

01:15:27.000 A self-inflicted gun wound or being hung was not like a mass reporting issue 60 years ago.

01:15:33.000 It is a material fact because we know it's happening in the Anglosphere.

01:15:37.000 It's happening in Australia.

01:15:38.000 It's happening in America.

01:15:39.000 It's happening all across Europe that suicide rates of men are going up.

01:15:44.000 Depression is going up.

01:15:45.000 They are correlated together.

01:15:47.000 It's not a reporting issue.

01:15:48.000 There's something undergirding it.

01:15:50.000 And in fact, just one other thing, your own prime minister endorsed adolescence.

01:15:53.000 He sent out a tweet saying, I was shocked to the core when I watched this film and everyone should watch it.

01:15:58.000 So that is an endorsement from the top leader.

01:16:01.000 Other than, you know, the king of this country of endorsement.

01:16:04.000 I mean, an endorsement is not a generalization.

01:16:07.000 Well, hold on.

01:16:07.000 No, no.

01:16:08.000 He said, I'm troubled to the core of what this could become.

01:16:11.000 And you have to, again, that is one example of thousands that I could give.

01:16:15.000 One that is the most applicable to here to this country.

01:16:17.000 And I guess I would just ask this question in closing.

01:16:19.000 Do you think men would be happier if they are married and providing for a family?

01:16:23.000 I don't think marriage or the institution of marriage is the only way a man can be happy.

01:16:27.000 That's not what I said.

01:16:28.000 I said generally happier.

01:16:30.000 Do you think men will be generally happier if they're married, providing, and have children?

01:16:34.000 I don't think that's a necessary factor to contributing to happiness.

01:16:39.000 Then what is your solution to bring about male happiness in the West?

01:16:42.000 Mine is men get married, have children, and provide.

01:16:45.000 What is yours?

01:16:47.000 That's a big question.

01:16:48.000 I think an affirmation of...

01:16:56.000 I think an openness to allowing men to express themselves in whichever way they want, even if that is in a more effeminate way or a Western typically effeminate way.

01:17:05.000 I don't think it's about ostracization.

01:17:07.000 I don't think it's about promoting one simple institution of living and disregarding all of those else.

01:17:15.000 Men are free to live single. 0.60

01:17:17.000 men are free to be in gay relationships.

01:17:19.000 I don't think that the institution of marriage privilege is one to a life of happiness over any other way of living.

01:17:25.000 So of course you have the agency to do that.

01:17:27.000 With all due respect, have you been to London the last 10 years?

01:17:30.000 Men can do whatever they want.

01:17:34.000 Men can act how they want and go to any club.

01:17:36.000 Has it worked?

01:17:37.000 Yeah, but also we've had austerity.

01:17:40.000 There are other factors outside of simply just cultural factors.

01:17:42.000 You see what you're doing, respectfully.

01:17:44.000 You're scrambling for an excuse to get away from the truth that's right in front of you.

01:17:48.000 Maybe men should get married and have children. 1.00

01:17:51.000 Because it's worked for 2,000 years.

01:17:53.000 I just think it's a very dishonest way to go about this argument, that there's only one issue.

01:17:57.000 Interesting.

01:17:57.000 Can I challenge you on that, though?

01:17:58.000 Why is it that the men of much poorer African and Asian countries don't have suicide? 1.00

01:18:05.000 How do we know that?

01:18:06.000 Oh, we know.

01:18:07.000 Again, by empirical third-party reported data from the UN, from the U.S. State Department, there is not a suicide crisis in sub-Saharan Africa.

01:18:15.000 There's not a suicide crisis in Southeast Asia with young men.

01:18:20.000 So explain to me that phenomenon.

01:18:22.000 They're materially wealthy.

01:18:23.000 They're not materially wealthy, and yet they're harming themselves.

01:18:27.000 So why would you then say it's austerity?

01:18:31.000 Sorry, say that again.

01:18:32.000 Okay, you're looking for another explanation for male unhappiness.

01:18:35.000 I'm pointing to you to a part of the world that actually does value marriage and does have children, but they have no money.

01:18:42.000 So therefore, how could you say it is a material problem why the men of London, who can dress how they want, go to whatever bar they want, are not happy?

01:18:51.000 Because it's more than one reason.

01:18:52.000 Like, there are multiple factors.

01:18:53.000 It's not just, like, it's not even just economic.

01:18:55.000 There's economic, there's social, there's, like, religious pressures.

01:18:58.000 There's, like, there's so many, like, you cannot boil down a societal issue to, like, one issue.

01:19:02.000 And I acknowledge that, right?

01:19:03.000 Even at the beginning, remember?

01:19:05.000 I'm saying the biggest, the one that has an exponent on it, is that we have a biological urge that God gave us when he designed us, which is to be fruitful and multiply for men to provide for the family.

01:19:16.000 And when we suppress that, As already happens in the West, we have Exhibit A. We have a serious suicide, mental health, anxiety, depression issue.

01:19:33.000 So I would just ask you to think over the next couple days, months, or years, why is it that men in countries that barely have toilets and do not have two pounds to rub together, but they do have kids and they do have a wife, Are much happier than someone with a big flat in downtown London? 0.55

01:19:49.000 Something to think about.

01:19:51.000 I mean, I think happiness is a difficult idea to conflate in that sense.

01:19:56.000 They're less likely to kill themselves.

01:19:57.000 Forget all these happiness indexes.

01:19:59.000 If you kill yourself, you're not happy, right?

01:20:01.000 So these poor countries do not have male suicide problems.

01:20:05.000 Why?

01:20:07.000 I do not know.

01:20:08.000 Think about it.

01:20:09.000 Thank you very much.

01:20:12.000 If you want to make sense of the change and the chaos happening around us, you're going to need God's help.

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01:21:25.000 Check it out right now.

01:21:28.000 You've spoken a little bit about your belief in the sanctity of life and the inviolable dignity of the human person.

01:21:34.000 I take it that you accept evolution?

01:21:37.000 It depends what you mean by that.

01:21:40.000 Do you think we've evolved from primates?

01:21:42.000 I don't know.

01:21:43.000 Okay.

01:21:44.000 But I do believe in the biblical account of creation.

01:21:46.000 I also acknowledge that there is an abundance of scientific research that shows adaptation.

01:21:53.000 Species change is heavily inferred in the data.

01:21:55.000 I don't know enough about it, but I believe the scriptures to be true.

01:21:58.000 And you can be a theist and also believe in God-ushered evolution.

01:22:02.000 Yeah, I completely agree.

01:22:04.000 And so, of which I allow people much smarter than me to make determinations on that.

01:22:07.000 It's completely irrelevant to my core theology, though.

01:22:10.000 Okay.

01:22:10.000 Are you happy for me to proceed with the question, though, on that basis?

01:22:13.000 Sorry, yeah, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but yeah.

01:22:15.000 That's fine.

01:22:15.000 So you're kind of vaguely not vaguely, but you seem generally happy with the idea that maybe evolution I hope that that's the case.

01:22:24.000 Well, actually, I don't believe that.

01:22:26.000 I think that I actually...

01:22:31.000 Not necessarily happy.

01:22:32.000 That was the word you used, though, right?

01:22:33.000 Okay, fine.

01:22:34.000 Willing to accept that based on the evidence, evolution is a fact.

01:22:39.000 No, I'm not saying it's a fact.

01:22:41.000 I'm actually, again, I say I'm open to have my mind moved.

01:22:44.000 And I look at the data, but I believe...

01:22:59.000 That in the creation account, there is an allowance to say that God created the heavens and the earth and allowed us to either evolve through species.

01:23:07.000 I happen to believe, through a faith claim, that human beings are designed.

01:23:11.000 What that means is designed over a long period of time or designed immediately.

01:23:17.000 That's for people smarter than me to determine.

01:23:18.000 Fine.

01:23:19.000 I suppose what I'm getting at is if you believe in the sanctity of life and that there is something fundamentally different between the life of, say, for instance, a human being and the life of an animal, does that not make that claim slightly arbitrary?

01:23:31.000 What is personhood based in?

01:23:34.000 If not, do you see what I'm getting at?

01:23:36.000 Sort of.

01:23:36.000 The scriptures say, though, that God created humans, male and female distinct.

01:23:40.000 They're the only ones in Genesis 126, 127, made in the image of God.

01:23:44.000 And so he called animals good, but they are not image bearers.

01:23:48.000 But that word create is barach in Hebrew, and it's not clear whether or not that is created in an instant over a long period of time.

01:23:58.000 And we as believers, I find no contradiction into saying that God could have created an instant of which I would be pleased.

01:24:04.000 I'll ask God when I get to heaven, how this all unfolded, or was it a process of adaptation and species change?

01:24:10.000 Very smart Christians are on both sides of this issue.

01:24:14.000 So there's what we call in Christianity closed-hand theological issues and open-hand theological issues.

01:24:19.000 Closed-hand issues would be like the resurrection of Christ.

01:24:22.000 The Trinity.

01:24:23.000 And then there's open-handed, which would be like eschatology or the Eucharist or the creation account.

01:24:28.000 This one allows, given the verbiage, it could be either way.

01:24:31.000 Fine.

01:24:32.000 I think just, I don't want to take up too much time then, but just kind of on that, you were talking a little bit about Christian values, and I'm intrigued by that.

01:24:42.000 I get the sense that you're very much motivated by your faith.

01:24:46.000 To what extent do you think Donald Trump embodies gospel values?

01:24:52.000 Yeah, so he reminds me very much of Samson in the Bible.

01:24:58.000 You can laugh.

01:25:00.000 How many of you guys actually know about Samson?

01:25:02.000 Great hair.

01:25:03.000 He was a man willing to fight for a cause greater than he, despite some of his own moral troublings and moral missteps.

01:25:12.000 All throughout the Bible, from King David to others, there are plenty of Abraham.

01:25:17.000 Moses murdered somebody.

01:25:19.000 How many people knew that?

01:25:20.000 Moses murdered somebody.

01:25:21.000 How dare you?

01:25:22.000 You could say a lot.

01:25:22.000 Donald Trump has never murdered anybody.

01:25:24.000 But Moses is like the most revered man in Judaism.

01:25:26.000 He was a murderer in Egypt. 0.99

01:25:28.000 He took someone aside and just slammed him in the head and actually had to flee all the way to Midian because of it. 0.57

01:25:32.000 We're all flawed.

01:25:33.000 We all have original sin.

01:25:34.000 How do I reconcile what he's doing with gospel values?

01:25:37.000 Well, for instance, I mean, the gospel values to me would be, you know, humility, compassion, forgiveness.

01:25:43.000 Does he live according to those values, do you think?

01:25:45.000 I actually, at times, I will say, he's far more magnanimous.

01:25:49.000 None of us are able to fill all those values.

01:25:53.000 I will say some values that I think he does fulfill.

01:25:55.000 He is a truth teller.

01:25:56.000 And the gospel says very clearly that telling of the truth is one of the most fundamental things, the spoken word.

01:26:04.000 So I'm not going to spend time here defining every moral decision that Donald Trump has made or not made.

01:26:09.000 I am equally a sinner as Donald Trump.

01:26:11.000 We all are.

01:26:12.000 We all fall short of the glory of God.

01:26:13.000 But I will say that his willingness to rise to the occasion of something greater than he, To endure being shot and almost shot again in almost 700 years in federal prison is one of the most courageous actions I've ever seen from a public elected official in the history of the West.

01:26:27.000 Do you think Jesus would have voted for Trump?

01:26:29.000 Do I think Jesus, well, first of all, Jesus intentionally didn't vote and did not care about the Roman guard.

01:26:34.000 You remember he said, pay unto Caesar what is Caesar, render unto God's what is God.

01:26:38.000 Do I think Jesus would love some of the stuff that Trump is doing?

01:26:40.000 It's a silly question, but I'm just, you know.

01:26:41.000 No, I mean, fine.

01:26:42.000 It's like, what did Jesus teach us?

01:26:43.000 Jesus says, don't touch children.

01:26:45.000 Okay, so he would love the fact that Donald Trump repealed Roe versus Wade.

01:26:48.000 He would love the fact that child sex trafficking is being focused on in this current government.

01:26:54.000 Jesus Christ said a lot of things such as, you know, sin no more, and things such as love your neighbor are things that we should embody in every single one of our public policy decisions.

01:27:02.000 So Jesus is divine, and he would not fill out a ballot.

01:27:07.000 All right, thank you for answering my questions.

01:27:12.000 I want to take a walk on South Africa.

01:27:14.000 You did talk about South Africa, and obviously the Expropriation Act of 2024 is kind of a really big issue.

01:27:20.000 I think to start off from the outside, I should mention that I also don't agree about, you know, the more terrible slogans.

01:27:28.000 Cue the boys.

01:27:29.000 Obviously, I think it's terrible.

01:27:31.000 But I think it's good to have context where the Expropriation Act is coming from.

01:27:37.000 And I think drilling down a little bit, I want to pick your thoughts based on the fact that white South Africans Only account for about 10% of the population, and they own about 72% of private land in South Africa.

01:27:51.000 And I think it's always really good also to pretty much draw back a little bit from the historic background behind it.

01:27:57.000 I think it goes back to about 1913, the Native Arts land, which severely disproportionately And that's what's caused much of the disparity we see economically.

01:28:13.000 So I wanted to find out from you, what are your thoughts?

01:28:18.000 And obviously Trump administration has really been big on what's going on in South Africa at the minute and the act itself that they enacted.

01:28:25.000 So do you think it's a moral obligation that obviously you're talking about that Does that land need to be returned to black South Africans? 0.99

01:28:42.000 No.

01:28:43.000 So I know dangerously little about this.

01:28:47.000 And so, again, what I said on stage is what I know, so I'm going to have to understand.

01:28:51.000 I'm an American.

01:28:52.000 I'm just trying to educate myself on UK politics, and so you will probably know more about this than I will.

01:28:56.000 But is it not true?

01:28:58.000 Man, you can correct me.

01:28:59.000 In the last 20 years, they've tried some form of reparations with black South Africans.

01:29:04.000 Yeah, absolutely.

01:29:05.000 Is that correct?

01:29:06.000 Maybe I'm wrong.

01:29:07.000 Yes, there's been, but it's not worked.

01:29:09.000 Oh, that's right.

01:29:10.000 So taking stuff from one group and giving it to blacks doesn't work? 0.90

01:29:15.000 Well, it does work, but I'll give you context as well.

01:29:17.000 You just said it doesn't work.

01:29:18.000 You contradicted yourself, so educate me.

01:29:20.000 I don't know enough, but you just contradicted yourself.

01:29:22.000 You went from it doesn't work to it does work, so please.

01:29:24.000 I'll give you context as well.

01:29:25.000 So what they did is they did have a program called the Black Empowerment Economic Program, and pretty much what they did is for every corporation, they would have to incorporate black people within it.

01:29:35.000 But that's not worked really well, and what we've seen over time is that a lot of black people that have been part of those organizations have only been a minority, so pretty much.

01:29:44.000 As you mentioned, what?

01:29:45.000 You talked about DEI.

01:29:46.000 So this is pretty much checking the box, right?

01:29:49.000 You have a black person within the senior management group, but it's only probably two people and the like, and that's pretty much it.

01:29:56.000 But the majority of black South Africans that do not own any land, because obviously the historic context that I gave, cannot pretty much be able to end a good living, because I mean, And excuse my ignorance on this. 0.80

01:30:14.000 We want to understand, though, that the land owned by black South Africans is actually not as productive as those owned by the Boers. 0.99

01:30:19.000 Is that correct?

01:30:21.000 Well, at the minute, 72% of private land, agricultural land, is owned by white South Africa.

01:30:27.000 No, I understand that.

01:30:28.000 Fair enough.

01:30:28.000 But the 28%, when compared to Boer-run farms, are actually not as productive, because running a farm in South Africa is very difficult.

01:30:34.000 Yes.

01:30:35.000 Am I correct by saying that?

01:30:36.000 Well, context again.

01:30:38.000 Well, I just want to make sure I'm clear that actually running a farm for over 100 years is actually really impressive.

01:30:44.000 100%.

01:30:44.000 Yeah, so we agree on that.

01:30:45.000 Yes, we agree on that.

01:30:46.000 So thank you, because again, I don't know enough about this, but I do think that that's important to note that even the black South Africans that own land, it actually is not as fruitful or has the same yields as those that have been doing it for over 100 years in a time when there's actually food instability in the region and in South Africa. 0.98

01:31:03.000 But obviously, what I would say is, I mean, over time, if, say, you did have an app that expropriates land from black South Africans, you need to build capacity over time.

01:31:12.000 And I think the governors are doing that for the minority of black people that own agricultural farmland in South Africa, and they've been doing that.

01:31:19.000 But also, we can't deny the fact that if you control supply chains for over a century, right, then it means that you pretty much control the economy, right?

01:31:33.000 Obviously, the land was taken from black people and South Africans. 0.95

01:31:36.000 White South Africa has been pretty much improving their economic outcomes over time.

01:31:43.000 What do you think is the best way to break even in that sense?

01:31:47.000 Fair question.

01:31:48.000 And I just want to make one point to you.

01:31:51.000 Obviously, you look at key philosophers as well, like Robert Nozick, for instance.

01:31:54.000 He talks about equality in terms of acquisition, as well as the process through which you acquire that land.

01:32:00.000 And obviously correcting the injustice that comes out of it.

01:32:03.000 So what would be your thoughts on that?

01:32:07.000 I'm not familiar with the philosophy you mentioned.

01:32:09.000 Who is the name again?

01:32:10.000 Robert Nozak.

01:32:11.000 Okay.

01:32:12.000 He's a very prominent philosopher.

01:32:13.000 I'll look at him.

01:32:13.000 Sure.

01:32:13.000 Thank you for that.

01:32:15.000 I don't know enough about South Africa to suggest anything.

01:32:18.000 Here's what I could tell you.

01:32:19.000 That race-based politics is really bad. 0.85

01:32:21.000 I know this because I'm living it in my country.

01:32:24.000 And I think that South Africa should get away from race obsession and should get towards something that is rooted in merit and empowerment.

01:32:30.000 South Africa is what?

01:32:33.000 75% black, is that correct?

01:32:34.000 80% maybe?

01:32:35.000 Yeah, that's right.

01:32:36.000 Right.

01:32:37.000 And so explain to me like post-apartheid, outside of the land ownership, maybe there's a business element, why is it that once apartheid was removed, why black South Africans were not able to see their material economic net worth go up in the last 20 or 30 years?

01:32:52.000 What do you think there's any, and maybe I don't know enough, are there any cultural inhibitions?

01:32:58.000 Inhibitions of a defeatist attitude that has basically, let's say, infected the minds of poor South Africans last 20 years that feel as if they can't accumulate wealth.

01:33:07.000 Do you think that plays a factor?

01:33:09.000 Yeah, I think what's really infected Black South Africans is pretty much going back to what we're talking about. 1.00

01:33:13.000 Obviously, from the colonial background that I just gave you, and we see a lot of neocolonialism, you control the supply chains, and you own 72% of agricultural farmland.

01:33:24.000 How do you expect the minority?

01:33:26.000 Well, the majority of black people to improve their lives and their outcomes when you pretty much control everything. 1.00

01:33:33.000 So this is a sloppy but best example I can give.

01:33:36.000 Is that fair?

01:33:37.000 So just grant me some mercy here.

01:33:39.000 What percentage of American land is owned by Asians?

01:33:42.000 Not sure.

01:33:43.000 Yeah, less than 3%.

01:33:44.000 They are the richest racial group in America.

01:33:47.000 So maybe land ownership isn't the only thing that matters to get wealthy.

01:33:51.000 Well, I do recognize a lot of components.

01:33:54.000 Hold on a second.

01:33:55.000 Forget the supply chain.

01:33:57.000 Forget the land.

01:33:57.000 Land is basically all owned by white people in America.

01:33:59.000 Yet Asians, Indians are by far the richest group.

01:34:03.000 So why is it that this particular group that happens to own the land and the supply chains, and we've admitted it's very hard to run this land, very hard to run this idea of farming in South Africa.

01:34:14.000 It feels to me, I could be wrong.

01:34:17.000 That it's a group of resentment-driven politics towards a group of people that own land instead of opportunity and empowerment-based politics talking to the black majority about how they could build a better life for themselves instead of taking away other people's stuff.

01:34:31.000 Well, maybe the question could be as well, why do you think white South Africans pretty much acquired that land through unjust means? 0.52

01:34:43.000 That's a mindset issue.

01:34:44.000 Hold on.

01:34:44.000 That's a mindset issue.

01:34:45.000 There's plenty in America that gets labeled as quote-unquote stolen.

01:34:49.000 Plenty.

01:34:50.000 However, it doesn't necessarily always hold back every ethnic group that is in the country, that is even in the minority of the country.

01:34:56.000 And so I guess the question is, it's a mindset.

01:34:58.000 I don't know South African law enough.

01:35:00.000 I don't know if it's a free market base.

01:35:01.000 I really don't.

01:35:01.000 I'm not just playing cute.

01:35:02.000 But as a general operating principle.

01:35:05.000 It's very bad to build a political movement around taking other people's stuff because you're obsessed with what you don't have instead of the mental energy to create what you want and what you think you deserve.

01:35:15.000 We've seen this with a lot of groups to America.

01:35:17.000 And America is a very interesting Petri dish because we have a lot of people that come to our country with nothing. 1.00

01:35:21.000 We have Cubans, we have Venezuelans, we have Colombians, we have Persians.

01:35:25.000 And a rule is the group that complains the least and focuses all their...

01:35:34.000 That might not be possible in South Africa.

01:35:36.000 There might be like no process to create wealth, but I would just venture a guess that market principles transcend borders.

01:35:43.000 So my postulization, and I'm glad you admitted it, don't say kill the boars.

01:35:48.000 Bad.

01:35:48.000 We should say that.

01:35:49.000 It has created real deaths and real harm. 0.99

01:35:52.000 If I was in charge, which of course I'm not, I would spend all my time not saying, kill the boar, kill the boar. 0.99

01:35:56.000 I would say my people... 0.99

01:35:59.000 Let's work harder.

01:36:00.000 Let's prove the boar wrong.

01:36:01.000 Let's start a business.

01:36:02.000 Let's build families.

01:36:04.000 One is driven in resentment and greed and envy and confiscation, and one is rooted in creation and entrepreneurship and optimism.

01:36:11.000 I'd like to see the latter.

01:36:13.000 Well, it's very interesting you call it confiscation.

01:36:16.000 What about if we call it probably reclaiming the land that was stolen back in the day?

01:36:19.000 But here's the thing as well.

01:36:21.000 Okay, but can I interject?

01:36:22.000 Please, okay.

01:36:23.000 Maybe as well, kind of understanding the value of Lund, right?

01:36:26.000 Much of what happens with Lund is obviously, and I think a very prominent economist talks about this, a guy called Hernando de Soto in his book, The Ministry of Capital.

01:36:36.000 I know Hernando de Soto.

01:36:37.000 Yeah, he talks about it really when it comes to Lund.

01:36:39.000 The value of Lund is that obviously you can borrow again instead.

01:36:42.000 And we've seen for much of agricultural commercial Lund.

01:36:44.000 Which is very expensive, really.

01:36:46.000 Legit, I think.

01:36:47.000 And that's the thing, right?

01:36:48.000 So if you own land pretty much everywhere, you can extract a little value out of it.

01:36:51.000 So can I interject really quick?

01:36:53.000 Let's try another moral principle.

01:36:55.000 Is it ever right to punish a grandchild for their grandfather's sins?

01:37:01.000 Not necessarily, but context is very important.

01:37:05.000 They did not steal the land.

01:37:06.000 Someone related to them stole the land.

01:37:08.000 So why punish them?

01:37:09.000 They look like them.

01:37:10.000 They talk like them.

01:37:11.000 They were related to them.

01:37:12.000 But you are talking about actively punishing a human being that did not create, did not do the atrocity.

01:37:17.000 I'm not saying we should actively punish them, right?

01:37:21.000 Okay, but you're saying, I just want to make sure I'm clear.

01:37:23.000 You went back to these three principles.

01:37:24.000 Making wrong the justice, redistributing it.

01:37:28.000 Correcting the injustice, I think.

01:37:30.000 So correcting the justice, let's say, theoretically, it would be that we want some of this land to go back to black South Africans. 0.99

01:37:36.000 That's confiscation, right?

01:37:37.000 You no longer own it.

01:37:38.000 This group's going to own it.

01:37:39.000 Therefore, you are punishing a grandkid for the sin of a grandfather.

01:37:43.000 How is that morally defensible?

01:37:46.000 I think it gets back to the same thing.

01:37:48.000 And how is it morally defensible if, say, the land that you own at the moment?

01:37:53.000 Was stolen land.

01:37:54.000 And it has over time created a massive disparity economically for much of the majority of black people out there.

01:38:01.000 So they could make the same argument as well.

01:38:02.000 Fair enough.

01:38:03.000 And we would say, but the code that we believe in the West and South Africa can choose, that inheritance, something that you did not work for, and all of a sudden that you have and that you are then nurturing, we're not going to take that away from you if you did not do anything individually wrong.

01:38:20.000 Because we, this is the difference.

01:38:21.000 We believe in individual-based, not collectivist, group-based politics.

01:38:26.000 So they're saying this group took this from this group, therefore this group must get something else.

01:38:30.000 We're asking, did that individual do anything wrong?

01:38:33.000 That individual is a different person than the grandfather.

01:38:35.000 So what is the solution?

01:38:36.000 The solution is for black South Africans to understand the injustice, and I'll grant you all that.

01:38:41.000 I know nothing about the 1913.

01:38:43.000 I should learn about it, and thank you for bringing that to my attention.

01:38:45.000 But I do know that there was a lot of immoral behavior to the, let's say, Not the acceptance, but the gaining of the land, right?

01:38:55.000 That's right.

01:38:56.000 I acknowledge that.

01:38:57.000 Fine.

01:38:57.000 The question is then what to do.

01:38:59.000 And a general rule that has worked in America, and I'll kind of repeat my point, is the group.

01:39:04.000 Whomever it is, if they have a mentality and a mantra that is about creation and about resentment, will succeed.

01:39:11.000 This is actually really bad for even the people.

01:39:13.000 Even if they got all the land back, let me tell you, it would not necessarily be a good thing.

01:39:17.000 Number one, we've already shown that they can't necessarily manage it.

01:39:19.000 It's very hard.

01:39:20.000 The boars have developed a method of farming over the last 100 years.

01:39:23.000 How do you justify that?

01:39:24.000 Because I just told you, and you agreed with me.

01:39:27.000 I asked a question, which I think I knew when you affirmed it. 0.94

01:39:30.000 The black South African farmers are not nearly as productive as the equivalent boar farmers. 1.00

01:39:35.000 They're not. 0.96

01:39:35.000 The same land, same fertile soil, the farms equivalent are not as necessarily productive. 0.96

01:39:41.000 But again, just as a general rule, and we can have clarity but not agreement, I think it's a bad idea to nationalize complaints.

01:39:49.000 I think it's very dangerous.

01:39:51.000 And then the right, we fall into this sometimes too.

01:39:54.000 In South Africa, it's even more dangerous to weaponize racial complaints, despite the injustices of past.

01:40:01.000 It's a better use of time to talk about a victor mindset, not a victim mindset.

01:40:07.000 Yeah, I think it's easily said than done.

01:40:10.000 That would be my kind of thinking.

01:40:13.000 But it's simply a mindset.

01:40:14.000 But the groups that embrace it in America and across the West, they succeed. 0.99

01:40:19.000 The Jews have had a lot of crap thrown at them the last hundred years. 0.99

01:40:23.000 They get their act together. 1.00

01:40:24.000 They organize.

01:40:26.000 They understand how to create wealth.

01:40:29.000 And again, I would say there are many groups that are parallel to that.

01:40:33.000 So you want to make a final point?

01:40:34.000 I don't know how we are in time.

01:40:36.000 Yeah, I think that's pretty much it.

01:40:37.000 Yeah, again, we have clarity.

01:40:39.000 I would like to see, of course, an end of the Kill the Boars.

01:40:41.000 But my hope for South Africa is one that is rooted in empowerment and lifting up and optimism, not being like, well, something bad happened to my grandfather, therefore it impacts me.

01:40:50.000 It actually doesn't impact you as much as you think.

01:40:52.000 You're a free being with your own agency and your own ability.

01:40:55.000 Was it wrong?

01:40:56.000 Yes.

01:40:57.000 Is it inhibiting?

01:40:57.000 I would say no.

01:40:59.000 Yeah, I would say that I think cooperation is probably the pathway going forward.

01:41:04.000 And I think breaking even is a good thing because the Expropriation Act actually does pretty much cut off of that, where much of land that's not being used can then be shared.

01:41:13.000 I will look into it.

01:41:15.000 I think that would be a better way to go.

01:41:16.000 I'll read more about it.

01:41:16.000 Thank you very much.

01:41:17.000 Thank you.

01:41:22.000 Thanks so much for listening, everybody.

01:41:24.000 Email us, as always, freedom at charliekirk.com.

01:41:27.000 Thanks so much for listening, and God bless.

The Charlie Kirk Show - June 15, 2025

Charlie Kirk vs. The University of Oxford

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