Charlie Kirk is a conservative commentator and founder of Turning Point USA, a prominent conservative organization with a presence on over 3,000 high school and college campuses across the country. He is also the author of 4 books and has written 4 books. Charlie is a regular contributor to the New York Times and has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and USA Today among other publications. He is a frequent guest on Fox News and CNN.
00:00:30.000I felt pretty good about the points I made.
00:00:32.000There are some points I probably could have made better.
00:00:34.000But understand, it was literally kind of like a Moscow show trial where you're standing there for an hour and a half and they're throwing a debater after debater and they're applauding at the dumbest stuff.
00:00:46.000So I just have to warn you before you listen to this podcast, this one – I mean, it was so overwhelming against me.
00:01:00.000That's why I kind of love it, because we need to be unafraid to go into those environments.
00:01:04.000We need to be unafraid to go into the lines then.
00:01:06.000We need to be unafraid to go into the place where we're not always going to be applauded.
00:01:10.000We're not always going to be celebrated.
00:01:11.000We're not always going to be welcomed with open arms.
00:01:14.000No, that's not what free speech is all about, is sometimes going into the greatest place of opposition.
00:01:30.000It was more just kind of like a verbal melee.
00:01:33.000And I think you will agree, and I would love your thoughts, freedomatcharliekirk.com, that the students of Cambridge, they could have done a lot better.
00:01:40.000They could have been far more sophisticated, more polite, but they decided to take the gloves off and we got into the arena.
00:01:48.000And of course, when I made a good point, it was met with silence.
00:01:51.000And when they made a mediocre point, it was met with roaring applause as if they split the atom.
00:01:56.000Hilariously, they actually split the atom at Cambridge.
00:01:59.000Make sure you guys subscribe to our podcast and enjoy this lively, controversial, viral fight at Cambridge University.
00:02:24.000His spirit, his love of this country, he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point USA.
00:02:32.000We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.
00:02:44.000Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of The Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals.
00:02:54.000Learn how you can protect your wealth with Noble Gold Investments at noblegoldinvestments.com.
00:03:36.000So I'll start with some questions from me, and then we're going to move to the questions from the audience, from the people who've submitted them, and you'll be asking them at the dispatch box.
00:03:43.000My first question is about Turning Point USA's Professor Watchlist.
00:03:48.000Its mission is described as exposing college professors who discriminate against conservative students and advance leftist propaganda in the classroom, with examples including feminism, abortion, and socialism.
00:04:00.000How would you respond to critics, such as PEN America?
00:04:07.000Well, we're getting right into it, aren't we?
00:04:15.000So yeah, just by background, Turning Point USA has now grown to be the largest campus conservative organization in the country.
00:04:23.000I come from a view that conservatism is widely underrepresented in American campuses, and by conservatism.
00:04:30.000I literally mean the defense of Western values, free markets, rule of law, individual initiatives, entrepreneurship, the Constitution, so on and so forth.
00:04:39.000And an American college campus is in particular, and I don't know, I'm guessing that this campus is...
00:04:47.000We'll see what happens when we have dialogue.
00:04:48.000But I do know that there are some great professors that do teach the Western canon, which is far too missing from American universities.
00:04:55.000Is that American college campuses have become a place where they strive to have everyone look different but think the same.
00:05:03.000And in America, university and college tuition is through the roof.
00:05:08.000And students and parents have a moral obligation to know who is teaching their kids.
00:05:13.000And for these professors that have such a major objection for being on our professor watch list, if they don't say obscene things, then they will not end up on our watch list.
00:05:22.000I'm talking about professors that were I'm sorry.
00:05:26.000If you're excited about what happened on October 7th, then you deserve to be on a professor watch list, and people should know all about you.
00:05:32.000And if people want to fire you as a consequence of that, or if people don't want to go to that school as a consequence of that, then so be it.
00:05:38.000And so what was the criticism exactly?
00:05:48.000If the publicizing of certain ideas is intimidation, then I think that's just laughable.
00:05:52.000It is using our own free speech to expose professors who we believe are making America a worse country.
00:05:58.000And in fact, I believe in America, higher education has largely posed a threat to Western values.
00:06:04.000And I think we need more students and more parents to realize the moral rot that universities have become in the Western world.
00:06:11.000So, Turning Point Accountomy mentions the importance of promoting intellectual growth.
00:06:17.000How would you respond to critics that such an education system stifles intellectual growth through establishing a fixed set of values, for example, regarding God, life beginning at conception, and two genders, rather than promoting intellectual diversity?
00:06:31.000Sure, I mean, at some point, you're going to have to get to a truth claim.
00:06:34.000So, even to say that you want intellectual diversity means that you think intellectual diversity matters, but by what standard?
00:06:40.000So you have to actually, at some point, say that something is good.
00:06:43.000So if someone says, well, the criticism that you're going to tell a kid that something is good is something else, you should have intellectual diversity.
00:07:04.000And Christianity brought to the world things that we all take for granted.
00:07:08.000Tom Holland, who actually was educated here and is one of the great classicists and taught himself ancient Greek, he wrote in his book Dominion that even if you hate Christianity, your critique of Christianity is actually using Christianity itself.
00:07:21.000And so this idea of intellectual diversity, I totally support that.
00:07:25.000And I think that students should read different books and should read different authors.
00:07:29.000At some point though, the purpose of education is not to have an endless buffet line for students to sample every bad idea in the world.
00:07:37.000It's to point them to the good, the true, and the beautiful.
00:07:39.000And I think we've lost what the purpose of education is.
00:07:44.000To lead forth out of the cave was the original analogy.
00:07:46.000And so at Turning Point Academy, we take the biblical idea to train a child up in the ways in which they will go, and we make no apologies for instituting a belief that...
00:07:58.000The defense of universal human equality is a good for all humanity, amongst many other things that you articulated.
00:08:05.000So, how would you reconcile the importance of freedom, which is listed as Turning Point USA's mission on your website, with the restrictions on bodily autonomy, which you support, including abortion, trans-affirming health care, and birth control?
00:08:19.000And how would you respond to criticism of your limited view of freedom?
00:08:22.000So first of all, birth control, I don't have that strong of views of.
00:08:26.000So I mean, except the fact that I've criticized how actually young people that take young women that take hormonal birth control might have side effects that are not always disclosed to them.
00:08:34.000As far as abortion and trans affirming care, I'll get into that in a second.
00:08:40.000But I find it laughable, not from you, of course, but some of the people that are always very critical of.
00:08:44.000Charlie, why don't you just believe in bodily autonomy?
00:08:46.000I'm sorry, didn't you just mandate a vaccine for the last couple years?
00:08:48.000I couldn't visit your country for two years because I didn't take a vaccine.
00:08:51.000So it's my body, my choice, unless it's...
00:08:59.000That was neither safe nor effective, and we all must be very honest about the fact that the public health experts of both of our countries never apologized for the fact that they made you take a vaccine that, by the way, has a lot of side effects for a lot of people in this room, and no one wants to say that.
00:09:12.000As a side note, though, all the bodily autonomy people, and you guys can laugh all you want.
00:09:19.000All the bodily autonomy people suddenly got really silent when we decided to say, we're going to control your body and control the movement of what you can do.
00:09:45.000So on the first thing, you do not have an ability, and I'm sure there will be a question about this, under any agreed-upon Western morality, which is derived from a Christian construct, to murder another human being.
00:09:58.000And so we believe, obviously, because we believe in very basic biology and science, that life begins at conception, and therefore that life deserves universal human rights as applied equally under our laws.
00:10:11.000As far as trans-affirming care, as far as if you want to do something over the age of 18, knock yourself out.
00:10:17.000you guys actually have been better than our country on this.
00:10:20.000You have the Cass Report that our country has lost its mind, where the Cass Report itself And so we all can agree that students or young people that are not yet of age or mature age of 18, of course we limit certain freedoms or liberties for 15-year-olds.
00:10:45.000In my country, they can't own guns until they're 18. In my country, they can't even drink until they're 21. In my country, they can't vote until they're 18 in America.
00:10:54.000And so until someone is of age, you're going to limit that.
00:10:57.000And so I believe that we should all agree that.
00:11:13.000So you spoke about vaccines and the COVID-19 vaccine.
00:11:17.000How would you respond to accusations about you misusing your platform and purporting misinformation during the COVID-19 pandemic, including speaking against the COVID vaccine and speculating about deaths caused by it and being briefly banned from Twitter for claiming that hydroxychloroquine was 100% effective in treating the virus?
00:11:38.000Well, I'm back on Twitter now, thankfully.
00:12:10.000And we locked down the generation of people that needed to be locked down the least that have now bared the consequences the most on top of a hyperinflation crisis, which caused a housing crisis, which has caused a sovereign death crisis.
00:12:24.000Because we were worried that something that materially was never a greater threat than the seasonal flu to these people in this room was never a greater threat than the seasonal flu.
00:12:34.000That is a fact of science, because we have to trust the science.
00:12:38.000And again, we can go back and forth, but this is the more important thing.
00:12:41.000It was never about trusting the science.
00:12:47.000There is something called the Barrington Declaration.
00:12:48.000If you don't know what this is, all of you have a moral obligation to know what it is.
00:12:52.000The Barrington Declaration was thousands of scientists from around the world that said these lockdowns are doing more harm than good.
00:12:58.000And the one thing that we never talked about through all of this, that now the pharma companies magically discovered after they were able to proliferate a vaccine, is early interventions.
00:13:06.000Is the fact that if you catch COVID early, what is your vitamin D level?
00:13:10.000Let's have a serious conversation about whether or not you're chronically overweight.
00:13:17.000Why don't we also say to the American people, and be honest, if you are 50 pounds overweight, you have a much higher likelihood of dying of COVID.
00:13:23.000That would be considered to be politically insensitive in America.
00:13:45.000And I think we, the people of the West, deserve an apology from our leaders for all the suffering that they inflicted on the young people of both our countries.
00:13:52.000So you've described recently how it used to be 10 vaccines.
00:13:59.000Something's not right and our kids are sicker than ever.
00:14:01.000How would you respond to criticism that your rhetoric regarding vaccinations is dangerous and irresponsible when considering a global rise in vaccine distrust and deaths from vaccine-preventable diseases, including measles and meningitis?
00:14:30.000Inoculation and vaccine rates have risen, and chronic diseases are higher than ever, and there is a perplexing rise in a lot of the secondary and third-tier issues.
00:14:53.000I'm not a scientist and I don't play one on TV, but also I use human reason and one would say common sense to also ask the very simple question.
00:15:01.000The public health authorities got almost every question of COVID wrong.
00:15:06.000Why should we continue to delegate trust to them?
00:15:55.000And generally, their statistics were way better than some of the other countries that were correlated to it.
00:16:00.000Everyone has the agency to do what they want to see fit, and yes, I do think that there is something troubling when the childhood vaccination schedule goes from 10 shots to 72 shots, some of which are things, for example, hepatitis B. Upon birth in America, I don't know how it is in the UK, within seconds, they will inoculate a child against hepatitis B. Number one, hepatitis B vaccine expired by the age of 13, and there's only two ways to get hepatitis B: through sexual intercourse, or through intravenous drugs, or some other correlated way.
00:16:28.000So unless it is a son or a daughter of an active drug user or a drugman, And so those of us that even ask the question, why are we using a hepatitis B vaccine when we can maybe wait until they're 12 or 13 and when they're sexually active?
00:16:48.000No, you must do it and you must just trust the science.
00:16:51.000Okay, well, that's not good enough for us.
00:16:55.000So, Turning Point USA acquired students for Trump in 2019 and worked on targeting students on college campuses, especially ahead of the 2020 election.
00:17:05.000However, despite an increase in youth turnout in 2020, Trump's support was worse with young people in several battleground states than 2016.
00:17:14.000How would you respond to critics who claim that this failure was partly due to Trump outsourcing youth outreach to Turning Point USA?
00:18:32.000Again, what we are seeing in states, and I don't know if it's the case here in the UK, young men in particular are on pace to be the most conservative generation in history.
00:18:41.000And it's an exciting trend, and we're leaning into it.
00:19:11.000They saw friends, many of whom that took their life or suicide rates went up exponentially.
00:19:16.000And also, on top of that, we had this insane race stuff in America during 2020, otherwise known as Floydapalooza, where we decided to burn our country because a guy drug overdosed on the streets of Minneapolis.
00:19:31.000Just read the medical examiner report.
00:19:33.000The Hennepin County Medical Examiner Report.
00:19:36.000So then all of a sudden we decided to commit cultural suicide and throw statues.
00:19:40.000By the way, in London they threw a statue into the river or something because we're systemically racist.
00:19:45.000I'm sorry, our two countries are the two least racist countries ever to exist in the history of the world?
00:19:51.000And you guys should also be thanking the Lord that you have someone like William Wilberforce to look up to, and you should be building statues to Wilberforce, not taking down statues of your history, because it's thanks to Western values that we abolish slavery, and the world is a profoundly better place because of that worldview, and we as conservatives are unafraid to tell that story and that truth.
00:20:11.000So you've condemned the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as a huge mistake.
00:20:16.000Why do you believe it was a mistake to pass anti-discrimination legislation?
00:20:20.000And what do you think would be a better policy for being treated fairly and equally, which you see as an American principle?
00:20:27.000Nothing against the intent, but it was too broadly written and it played into something called disparate impact.
00:20:32.000Disparate impact was woven within the Civil Rights Act, and disparate impact basically says if two racial groups have different outcomes, the answer must be racism.
00:20:58.000The Civil Rights Act led the way to affirmative action, which is weaponized, quote unquote, reverse racism against Asian and white people.
00:21:05.000And the Civil Rights Act also blazed the trail for disparate impact as a legal theory.
00:21:10.000I'm saying that if black Americans are doing worse in a group, it might not be because of marital differences or cultural differences or single motherhood issues.
00:21:19.000And so because of that, the Civil Rights Act was too broadly written.
00:21:22.000It's now being applied in my country as a way to get rid of voter integrity, to get rid of election integrity, to get rid of voter ID.
00:21:29.000The Civil Rights Act is also now being applied to put men in female locker rooms.
00:21:32.000So the intent, it should have been a single-page or a two-page bill to say that you cannot discriminate against based on the color of somebody's skin, period, end of story.
00:21:40.000Instead, we get a multiple hundred-page bill with lots of chapters and lots of lesser-known amendments that created basically a permanent anti-racist bureaucracy within our federal government to go find racism where it doesn't exist and create it in new places where it otherwise did not exist.
00:21:55.000So you've described Martin Luther King Jr. as awful, not a good person, even though many conservative commentators have spoken in support of what he says, including his quote, where they will be judged about his children, where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
00:22:37.000I don't want to go too deep into this.
00:22:39.000and maybe it's very interesting to UK students about MLK, but there is a mythology around MLK that does not warrant the reverence that he gets treated with in America.
00:22:49.000Should he be mentioned amongst lots of people in the 20th century that was complicated and at the end of his life advocated for a more communistic view and then actually got away from race blindness and actually got towards race obsession?
00:23:01.000He did some things that were not so great.
00:23:03.000In America, though, you must understand, he is looked to as the new founding father.
00:23:07.000The main contention that I have with the Civil Rights Act and the Civil Rights Movement and how it ended, not how it started, is that we refounded the country fundamentally.
00:23:14.000We cast aside our founding roots and our founding documents of the U.S. Constitution, and we decided to basically usher in the Civil Rights Act as a new anti-racist dogma creed.
00:23:25.000And I find something fundamentally wrong with that.
00:23:27.000Our birth certificate as Americans is the declaration and the law of the land is tied with the U.S. Constitution.
00:25:00.000So you tweeted ahead of the January 6th Capitol attack that Turning Point USA and Students for Trump were sending more than 80 buses of Patriots to D.C. to fight for this president, although it ended up being seven.
00:25:13.000Do you see your claims, including that the election was stolen, as contributing to January 6th?
00:25:20.000It's somewhat of an irrelevant question, but no, of course not.
00:25:24.000In fact, our students were the ones that Didn't even go to the Capitol and peacefully went home.
00:25:28.000But, I mean, how deep into January 6th do you want to get?
00:25:31.000It wasn't an insurrection by any means whatsoever.
00:25:34.000There were some people that acted totally improperly, and they should not assault police officers or break windows.
00:25:39.000But there were also a lot of people that walked into the Capitol building and the doors were open for them and they walked between the cued lines that were there and said a prayer.
00:25:47.000And these are the people that walk around with pocket constitutions, and they were smeared in the largest witch hunt and manhunt, I should say, the largest manhunt in American law enforcement history that resulted in 1,300 arrests of nonviolent offenders that walked into the people's house in the United States Capitol building, while violent crime rose in almost every major city in the country.
00:26:11.000You've compared same-sex sexual behaviour to drug and alcohol use and described it as an error and said you don't agree with the lifestyle.
00:26:19.000How would you justify these comments whilst also speaking about welcoming gay people into the Conservative movement?
00:26:35.000The Bible talks very clearly about God's natural order.
00:26:39.000We see this reflected in the natural law.
00:26:40.000Some of my closest friends and closest people that work with me alongside at Turing Point USA participate in a same-sex lifestyle, and that's their own prerogative.
00:26:49.000But if you ask me what I believe and why I believe it, it's derived straight from Scripture.
00:26:53.000And you've spoken of marriage as between one man and one woman, even whilst polls have consistently shown most Americans as in support of same-sex marriage.
00:27:02.000How would you respond to critics regarding your position on this?
00:27:05.000I don't derive my morality from up-or-down vote.
00:27:09.000How would you respond to criticism that far-right-wing discourse, particularly online, is inflamed by organizations such as Turning Point USA and your rhetoric, even as you condemn attendance of neo-Nazis at your events?
00:27:23.000I don't even know how to respond to that.
00:27:26.000I mean, how do I respond to critics that I'm inflaming tensions?
00:27:30.000If the truth inflames you, you have a problem.
00:28:12.000You guys are a husk of your former self.
00:28:14.000You guys, you can laugh and sneer all you want, but the country that split the atom and invented the steam engine and eradicated slavery and brought common law to the world can do a lot better than this.
00:28:30.000And for whatever I can do, I hope that this country finds a leader or a group of leaders.
00:28:36.000I'm not here to give you political advice.
00:28:37.000I hate when foreigners do that to Americans, you guys, whatever you want.
00:28:39.000But I do have a wish that the world feels like it's missing something.
00:28:43.000It feels like it's missing something when Great Britain or England or whatever politically correct thing I have to say, because I guess England, I can't fly an English flag now, whatever nonsense that is.
00:29:00.000Get what made England and made Great Britain such a phenomenal place.
00:29:06.000I hope you get that back, and I hope that you reject the swan song of multiculturalism and get back to the fundamental truism that a strong Britain means a strong world, and therefore a strong West, and we can stand up for what is good, true, and beautiful.
00:29:22.000Would you agree with commentators that your politics have become more conservative in recent years and what's caused this shift?
00:30:12.000And do you see equal treatment as possible without considering it?
00:30:16.000Just so we're clear, IQ tests don't have anything to do with background.
00:30:19.000I mean, meaning like, okay, if you have somewhat of an equal nutritional capacity, it doesn't matter how much you study or you get an IQ, maybe you can get an IQ tutor and boost it by a couple points, but we should bring back IQ tests in the West.
00:30:31.000I was just going to say, do you see it as possible without considering any external factors for students when applying for higher education, such as economic background?
00:30:38.000Well, external factors can be factored in, but affirmative action isn't that.
00:30:42.000at least in America, I don't know how it works here.
00:33:33.000So, my question is, I am a Conservative and I did back Trump in 2024, but I'm troubled that the GOP refuses to hold him accountable for his personal and legal failings.
00:33:46.000And how can we claim to stand for moral values and the Constitution while excusing behaviour that we condemn from the left?
00:33:53.000Isn't it the hypocrisy undermining our credibility, especially with the next generation?
00:33:58.000What specifically do you have issue with?
00:36:10.000I mean, every civilization has had a different belief, but agreed upon ethical monotheism, which is the creed of the West and what the birth certificate of my country articulates, that every human being is more than just matter, it's more than just a clump of cells, but it also has an invisible element to you that will live beyond you.
00:36:29.000Ethical monotheism, which is the creed of the West.
00:36:32.000And again, the Declaration of Independence mentions God four times.
00:36:35.000The founders were explicitly believed, not in a secular morality, but a divinely given one, of at least this idea that there is a God and you are not him.
00:36:45.000And let me ask you, what is the first stage of human development?
00:37:48.000So when you ask me, where does a human being come from?
00:37:50.000I can say to you, it starts at conception, but all conception is these two cells joining, right?
00:37:55.000These two cells were created, the mother cells were created long before, they were created when she was a fetus.
00:38:01.000So there's none of this DNA being produced, right?
00:38:04.000So we can't establish The only thing that happens at conception is these two cells fuse.
00:38:09.000Now this idea that that means that for some reason suddenly that moral worth comes in, but it wasn't there before when you had these two cells who had half the DNA, but suddenly there's a Something magical happens at that point.
00:39:13.000I mean, again, this comes from what you define as where life starts.
00:39:16.000You can say life starts at conception, but I'm telling you, I believe that's just an arbitrary point, right?
00:39:21.000That's just the moment these two cells fuse.
00:39:23.000Now, you say about this mother thing, so the way DNA is arranged in a cell is it's arranged in chromosomes.
00:39:29.000Chromosomes are paired up, so you have one from the mother, one from the father, typically, in a healthy individual, right?
00:39:34.000Now, you can take those maternal chromosomes out and you can find that this is who the person's mother is.
00:39:39.000And you can do the same with the father.
00:39:41.000Now, the reason you are different to your mother and father is because some of those chromosomes express genes that are different from each other.
00:39:47.000And so those genes interact and that's what gives rise to you, right?
00:39:51.000There's no space for any kind of moral framework to come into that until you consider that a human being is capable of consciousness and of suffering.
00:40:00.000But unless you, if you take that out of the equation, these two DNA, you know, whatever they call molecules, right?
00:40:09.000That does not suddenly flip a switch that attributes moral worth to that individual.
00:40:23.000I'm just saying, I'm not trying to score points.
00:40:26.000By what moral standard do you believe that?
00:40:29.000I believe that if an individual is capable of suffering, then it's wrong.
00:40:33.000Now, can I explain my opinion on abortion, just so you can understand?
00:40:36.000I would agree, as many reasonable people would, that at nine months...
00:40:45.000Unless you have some extreme circumstances.
00:40:47.000But for an elective abortion seems a bit radical to me.
00:40:50.000But it also seems radical to say that a woman who has just, you know, the cells have just fused, to deny her of an abortion also seems wrong to me.
00:40:57.000Because that, you know, that zygote is not capable of suffering, as far as we know.
00:41:02.000So you're, again, by what moral standard?
00:41:37.000So let me just make sure I understand this correctly.
00:41:40.000That if it doesn't affect their well-being, so dementia patients that don't know who they are or where they're from, can we execute dementia patients because they're confused about their well-being?
00:43:07.000The process of development begins from the moment the sperm is being generated in the That's just a point you've taken.
00:43:18.000It makes perfect sense because that is when your journey as a human being, when the sperm and egg were separate, you were not yet a fused human being.
00:43:25.000You were not created uniquely in any image.
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00:43:55.000I bet you have an idea of a business you want to start and a dream that you want to come seem into reality, but you probably say, oh, I don't have the skills or I can't do it alone.
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00:45:40.000The next question tonight is from Rudy Ellis-Jones from Emanuel College.
00:45:50.000Hello, thank you for coming to today's talk.
00:45:52.000So my question, as someone studying archaeology and biological anthropology, I've learned that moral codes and social norms have always been fluid, shaped by time, culture, power.
00:46:04.000So many ancient and recent societies embraced same-sex relationships and even the idea of third genders well before Western conservatism even existed.
00:46:12.000So when you claim that modern conservative values represent some kind of universal, objective moral truth, like you said on your chair over there, aren't you just defending a selective, historically recent ideology that erases most of human history and targets people who have always been part of it?
00:47:11.000There are moral truths that are transcendent of time, place, and matter.
00:47:16.000Okay, but so just to clarify, you believe that this is in the Bible, this is laid out in the Bible, that man shall not sleep with man, and so therefore it's also repeated throughout the New Testament as well.
00:47:24.000In the book of Matthew, Jesus reaffirms the biblical standard for marriage.
00:47:27.000Okay, so I'm going to make two very, very quick points.
00:47:29.000So the first, so if we look at the Old Testament in isolation, just to start off with as an example.
00:47:34.000So let's look at Exodus 35.2, which suggests that if you work on the Sabbath, you should be put to death.
00:47:40.000If you look at Leviticus 11.7, It suggests that if you have pork, you should be put to death.
00:47:46.000If you plant two crops side by side, you should be stoned by your entire village.
00:47:51.000If you wear a suit, which you are wearing now, that contains two different fibres intertwined into the same jacket, you should be burned at the stake by your own mother.
00:47:59.000Now, following that rationale, in Leviticus 18.22, and it states that man shall not sleep with man, why aren't we burning ourselves at the stake as well?
00:48:08.000Why aren't we stoning ourselves to death?
00:48:18.000Do you care to address my main contention that Christ affirmed biblical marriage in the book of Matthew?
00:48:23.000And can you tell me the difference between the ceremonial, the moral, and the ritual law?
00:48:28.000And then finally, also, tell me about Christianity, the difference between the new and the old covenant, or are you just going to cherry-pick certain verses of ancient Israel that do not apply to new Christianity?
00:49:08.000Also, homosexuality is repeated in the book of Titus and in the book of Jude as not being favorable as the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
00:49:16.000Not even talking about the Old Testament verses.
00:49:17.000There are three types of the 613 Levitical laws.
00:49:20.000And you, you know, of course, in your own way, cherry-pick some of them.
00:49:52.000But, okay, say we put aside the Old Testament for now.
00:49:55.000We'll put that aside and the inconsistencies there, and we'll look purely at the New Testament following your rationale, okay?
00:49:59.000Now, when you say that Christ lays specifically, and the New Testament states specifically that man shall not sleep with man, I'd like to point out a linguistic error on that point.
00:51:06.000Well, we translate things, but translations are linguistically ambiguous.
00:51:09.000As a former classicist, I know that language can't be translated directly.
00:51:13.000So, for example, if we look at the translation of certain words into man, so I've got two words here.
00:51:18.000so I've got malakoi which means essentially soft which isn't necessarily directly saying a gay man and then we've got asana koitai, which essentially means prostitutes.
00:51:29.000Now, if we look at things linguistically, we can pick apart the Bible and say that actually, it wasn't saying man shall not sleep with man, it's saying man shall not sleep with prostitutes, which is an entirely different linguistics.
00:51:41.000My contention is completely New Testament focused.
00:51:45.000But you said man shall not speak another man.
00:51:47.000So you're talking about Romans 1. Well, actually, in Romans 1, it was actually women sleeping with women.
00:52:11.000Church tradition has had an unbroken chain affirming matrimony, holy matrimony being one man, one woman, And so I'm not even sure your contention, your point.
00:52:24.000Are you saying that the Bible doesn't affirm marriage as one man, one woman?
00:52:27.000Are you saying church tradition doesn't affirm marriage as one man, one woman?
00:52:47.000In fact, this idea of a new creation, which is something that is then used by the Apostle Paul to describe the church of Christ and the church being the bride of Christ with Jesus.
00:53:08.000But what about specifically in Matthew or in the book of Romans?
00:53:11.000But in order for you to be correct, you mean the church fathers translated it wrong when they were within like 50 years of this.
00:53:16.000In order for your contention to be correct, you have to say that the early church fathers that wrote the early letters to the church, they were translating it wrong and the tradition they established was wrong.
00:53:26.000So by then we can lean on tradition and scripture.
00:53:29.000So when you get tradition plus scripture, you get something that is authentic, that is real, and that is...
00:53:37.000We've gone back thousands of years to ancient Mesopotamia.
00:53:39.000But understand, they all spoke Greek, they wrote Greek, and they spoke Aramaic.
00:53:44.000So, for example, when they were writing the early Gospels, the Synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, they were obviously writing in Greek.
00:54:42.000Well, yes and no, because of course tradition is, but if the tradition lasts for 2,000 years, then we look back as to how did they get to that conclusion, how did they reach that verdict.
00:54:51.000And if that verdict is in alignment with what we see in Scripture, it means that their verdict was correct in Scripture.
00:55:11.000We've had an unbroken chain in a course.
00:55:13.000That says that marriage is one man and one woman.
00:55:15.000The church has never wavered on this truth.
00:55:17.000Noted by the British Empire under British form of Christianity.
00:55:20.000I'm talking all the way back to like 200 or 300.
00:55:22.000The idea of biblical Christianity goes back to the early, early times of the church when it was a scattered, persecuted church well before King Justinian and well before the Eastern Roman Empire.
00:56:38.000So first of all, my first question, or my only question is, you've advocated and applauded the reducing and removing of public funding for universities on the grounds they promote ideological biases.
00:56:53.000Given that universities play a critical role in driving national innovation, research, and upward mobility, especially through federally funded grants, how do you reconcile this position with the broader societal value that higher education institutes offer?
00:57:10.000Well, they can, but in Harvard's case, for example, who's getting their funding pulled, they have a $50 billion endowment.
00:57:16.000Just so we are clear, in pounds, that would be like, what, $42 billion, $45 billion?
00:57:20.000I mean, I'm trying to learn the conversion rate here.
00:57:23.000I mean, it's an extraordinary amount of money.
00:57:24.000They can either use their endowments to fund it, and if you have certain behavior and certain practices, then you should not get federal funding.
00:57:30.000Harvard is in direct violation of the United States Supreme Court fair admissions case, which says you cannot discriminate people based on the color of their skin.
00:58:58.000A lot of them did study liberal arts, and you keep undermining these august institutions, which have provided a lot for society.
00:59:07.000Like society's backbones have been universities and higher learning institutes, and yet you keep attacking them.
00:59:16.000Well, they used to be largely, but again, I don't want to speak too much about this country, but...
00:59:22.000You know Peter Thiel, after he graduated Stanford, wrote an entire book criticizing college and then paying people not to go to college?
00:59:28.000So Peter Thiel, who spoke at this very school, and you guys had a great conversation with him, do you know that he believes college is such a scam?
00:59:35.000He would pay people $100,000 a year for 20 years straight not to go to college?
00:59:39.000So not exactly a good argument in your favor.
00:59:41.000Peter Thiel, who got a philosophy degree, made billions of dollars, and has now forked over tens of millions of dollars for people not to go to U.S. universities and colleges.
00:59:53.000But to complete the point is that, yes.
00:59:57.000Look, in America, there are far too many people going to college.
01:00:02.000We need people to become welders, electricians, people that work with their hands.
01:00:06.000There is a major trade deficit problem in the United States.
01:00:09.000We have 11 million well-paying jobs that we cannot find enough labor for.
01:00:13.000And instead, we have a lot of people going to university.
01:00:15.000To go study North African lesbian poetry.
01:00:18.000It might sound good, but it doesn't necessarily, A, either develop the content of the character or the development of the soul, and B, it does not necessarily also give you the skills necessary.
01:01:56.000You had some of the greatest minds of the West.
01:01:58.000I don't know about what's happening here, and I'm not going to criticize it.
01:02:00.000But at most colleges in the West, they've gone away from places of inquiry and appreciation of what is good and what is beautiful and into this incessant oppression Olympics of trying to deconstruct the core canon that is our birth certificate.
01:02:14.000I don't know if that's happening here.
01:02:21.000No, first of all, they removed Western civilization as a core course in Stanford in the 1990s.
01:02:25.000They tried to bring it back with petitions and the university said, "No, teaching Western civilization is racist." I talked to some students earlier in the English department and they said, hey, I'm studying Shakespeare.
01:02:41.000I said, that's refreshing because in a lot of US schools, they don't teach Shakespeare because he's called racist.
01:02:45.000you'd be surprised at how wretched to the core some of these colleges have become in America.
01:02:49.000If you look at the Global Innovation Index, They're number two on the Global Innovation Index.
01:02:59.000China is somewhere near 13. There is a value in liberal arts, yet you're criticizing it.
01:03:14.000Yes, and I'm going to keep on criticizing it.
01:03:15.000Also, the vast majority of liberal arts graduates do not respect freedom of speech.
01:03:44.000The class sizes in America are 400 to 500 students, sometimes per introductory course.
01:03:49.000To go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt, study things that don't matter to find jobs that do not exist.
01:03:54.000And so let me just make one final point, is that, of course, some people should be going to college, but generally in the United States of America, it has become a racket of debt, it has become a burden, and a place where we're actually not putting our best and brightest into the job field itself to be equipped for the jobs of the future.
01:04:09.000Instead, we have a lot of baristas at Starbucks with philosophy degrees.
01:04:15.000As per the Oxford Dictionary's definition of indoctrination, it means that you take a belief and you can't
01:04:53.000lack critical thought in deciding what is thought in schools.
01:04:57.000Again, I'm not using Cambridge as the school that I think of, but in America, we have millions of people that go to these massive state schools that have humanities departments, that are not reading the great books, that do not have a tutoring system, that are unfortunately laced with the most anti-Western thought imaginable.
01:05:14.000I don't really quite following what one thing has to do with the other, why 3,000 chapters has something to do with your indictment.
01:05:19.000Maybe you can clarify, but I think we're out of time.
01:05:21.000You can clarify, but then we'll be fine.
01:05:23.000Colleges should be a place that lift you up to what is good, true, and beautiful.
01:05:27.000To study the great things that have been, to develop your soul, and develop your character.
01:05:31.000Character in Greek literally means like tattoo, etched within you.
01:05:36.000Far too often, colleges create ungrateful, pessimistic, and nihilistic revolutionaries that want to tear down what was before and instead have no alternative to build the future, and the West is suffering because of it.
01:07:34.000So my question is, I agree that stable monogamous relationships often produce the best outcomes for society, but if that structure really works for everyone, And why do so many marriages still end in divorce, even among people who generally try to make it work?
01:07:59.000If you believe in free markets because they are decentralized and they adapt to reality without top-down control, and given the individual ability to form healthy long-term pair bonds very significantly with factors like genetics and ecologically calibrated detachment styles, Why do you reject top-down control in economics, but not extend that same rejection to human behavior in terms of marriage?
01:08:21.000Okay, so the first one, the second law of thermodynamics answers your question, is that it's the law of decay.
01:08:27.000Societies tend to decay against the roots that created them.
01:08:31.000For example, as a side note, here in this country, you guys invented the idea of free speech.
01:09:23.000And so once you are prosperous, you tend to no longer have the moral guardrails or the limitations.
01:09:28.000Let's just say you no longer have delayed gratification because you have instant gratification, because you have a surplus of goods, and then you have a decline of a transcendent moral order.
01:09:38.000The second part of the question, can you remind me, please, what the second question was?
01:09:44.000Okay, well, for example, I believe in intervention in markets if there is something that is improper morally.
01:09:50.000So, for example, I do not believe that you should be able to scam your neighbor or have misleading advertising because I believe in a transcendent moral standard, and the same goes for my personal views on marriage.
01:09:59.000Okay, so I think we largely agree on the foundation.
01:10:02.000I'd like to propose something that you might like to think about.
01:10:04.000So firstly, I absolutely acknowledge...
01:10:13.000Again, there's strong data showing the independence of socioeconomic factors.
01:10:17.000Broken homes are some of the strongest predictors of poor life outcomes.
01:10:22.000And even, I'm not sure if many people here are aware of this, but if you track as countries become more socially egalitarian, somewhat surprisingly, rates of female depression and anxiety also spike disproportionately.
01:10:35.000I think one of the problems here is that when you try and impose more absolutism, inevitably, again, due to variance in attachment issues, due to industrialized culture, absent parents, screens, raising kids, around 50% of adults in the West develop attachment disorders, which make it very difficult to maintain long-term pair bonds.
01:10:57.000And then additionally, you have things like variation of ketocin receptors, density and shape, also invasive pressin.
01:11:03.000There are going to be, even if there's 5% of people who feel that these rules really do not fit them, they will push back.
01:11:10.000And this will create ideologies that then grow into more wider appealing ideologies, which then leads to the change.
01:11:17.000I think this is what happened in the sexual revolution.
01:11:18.000It started with a push for female autonomy.
01:11:20.000And then it was almost morphed into a really exaggerated expression of pushing for maximizing individual freedom.
01:11:27.000And I think that when you try and impose moral absolutism this way, And I think if you were to, as someone with a platform, instead say, hey, monogamy is great, it works best for most people, but I also understand there are some people it doesn't work so well for.
01:11:42.000More people would hear the message that you want to push.
01:12:19.000Well, I think what you're doing there is slightly unfairly putting me into a loop, because I'm very open to having my mind changed.
01:12:24.000What I'm saying, though, is that by definitionally, and this is something that will keep on coming back, you must choose what moral standard we live by.
01:12:31.000I'm very clear as to what moral standard.
01:12:34.000The lie of the West, of modernity, the last 30 years, is that we're going to have you live and let live, and there will be no moral standard.
01:12:40.000That itself is a moral standard, and it's a really bad one.
01:12:43.000And to your point, that yes, it creates more suffering, it creates more despair.
01:12:47.000No, I disagree with what you say, and I respect the heart of which you're saying it.
01:12:51.000I will say that I have a moral obligation not to accommodate when people fall short, but instead try to lift them up towards the standard that is true and that I know that works.
01:13:00.000So where I'd push this is that I'd ask you, you describe people falling short when they fail to engage in long-term monogamy.
01:13:10.000Economic is one of them, but the biggest is the death of religion and the death of Christianity in the West.
01:13:16.000As America, I'll just talk about America.
01:13:18.000The UK is unfortunately far less churched than America.
01:13:20.000But as America has become less churched, so many of these social ills rise.
01:13:26.000So one thing I would say, I study the evolution of behavior, in particular sexual romantic behavior.
01:13:31.000If you track all the different hunter-gatherer cultures that we can study, and we track how agriculture shapes things, you see that ecological conditions really reliably predict the prevalence of monogamy, certain marriage systems.
01:13:42.000And what I think is what we refer to as attachment issues.
01:13:45.000They seem to be an ecological calibration to an environment.
01:13:48.000In environments that are more unstable, it's less optimal for an individual to grow up with a tendency to rely on long-term pair bonds.
01:13:54.000And I think there's a mismatch with the modern world, again, coming back to industrialization.
01:13:58.000There are so many people who raise kids as absent parents.
01:14:02.000Daycare is massively linked to attachment issues.
01:14:04.000This then causes people to struggle to bond long-term.
01:14:08.000And then again, coming back to the genetic part.
01:14:09.000There's, again, real research showing that especially vasopressin mutations and oxytocin mutations, some people really just do not have the proclivity for this.
01:14:55.000In America, it's honestly one of the worst decisions, just worst ideas ever, which is modern feminism, largely from Betty Friedan's feminist critique, feminist mystique, I'm sorry, feminist mystique, And it has led to the women of the West being the most miserable, most depressed, most suicidal, most prescription drug-addicted cohort on the planet.
01:15:22.000And I think we need to appropriately challenge feminism and tell young women that it's okay, in fact it's courageous, to get married and have children again.
01:15:30.000I think it would solve a lot of our problems.
01:15:31.000Well, I've been told to, very brilliant.
01:16:21.000So let's say you're a member of a tribe, and in that tribe you have the biological female anatomy, and in order to become a woman in that tribe you have to also get a tattoo.
01:16:30.000That's a social experience that's mapped onto biological reality.
01:16:47.000As per my definition of a woman, I would say that people who have a prostate are biologically male, but they can sometimes be socially treated as women.
01:17:32.000Do you think women are happier than they were 40 years ago?
01:17:38.000I think that women report more stress and dissatisfaction today, not because they have more rights or because of feminism, but because they're under dual pressure to both excel professionally and also because of the domestic labour in homes that is structured around outdated expectations.
01:17:53.000So for example, studies like the OECD's Better Life Index show that women's life expectancy, education levels, professional achievements have risen in countries with higher gender inequality.
01:18:02.000So I would argue that what you're calling unhappiness is actually Yeah.
01:18:33.000I think that even if both men and women have become unhappier, men's suicide rates have risen as well, and that's also been exponential.
01:18:40.000Can you at least concede that feminism offers only one potential explanation?
01:18:43.000There could be also other explanations.
01:18:44.000Of course, obviously, but feminism is the glaring thing in front of us where we have fertility rates down, we have marriage rates down, we have unhappiness up, and we did something in the 1960s out of the universities of Bredi Friedan and Gloria Steinem and all these feminists that basically said, You're trapped in a home, go get a job, freeze your eggs, take birth control, and all of a sudden women are way unhappier than they were 40 years ago.
01:19:06.000And I just have to ask the question, why is that?
01:19:09.000And maybe there are biological differences between men and women that we should respect and that deep down a lot of women want to get married and have children.
01:19:16.000In fact, we should applaud it and we should support it and we should say, it means nothing if you're going to be a CEO of some shoe company or be some banker in London.
01:19:36.000I would say that it's an economic policy that has very little to do with the social acceptance of alternative lifestyles.
01:19:40.000I would say that we can recognise that income inequality across a vast swathe of Western countries has increased which causes all kinds of socialills, a lack of social cohesion, housing price growth doesn't correspond with wage growth, monopolies increasingly become kind of emboldened to interfere with politics and monopolies don't prioritise social health either.
01:19:57.000I think that those offer more compelling reasons for a decline in happiness than an increase in freedoms.
01:20:01.000On an intuitive basis, generally speaking, people want more freedom, not less.
01:20:05.000Okay, so if that's true, do you agree that the happiest women in the West are married with kids?
01:20:10.000I would have to look into it, but I think there are certain...
01:20:14.000The women with kids are not the ones tearing down statues, right?
01:20:17.000They're the ones that actually have obligations.
01:20:19.000Does tearing down statues correspond to some kind of smiles per capita data set that I wasn't aware of?
01:20:23.000Again, it's like, it's a little bit of a one-liner.
01:20:35.000But as a side note, you would agree objectively, study after study, survey after survey, that the women of the West that are married and have children, especially a lot of children, are far happier than even the ones that earn more money correlated at the same age.
01:20:46.000So I also don't think that happiness is a very good metric, and neither do you, because you think gay people shouldn't just pursue happiness by being gay.
01:20:52.000They have other moralistic considerations to be making.
01:20:54.000So I don't think smiles per capita is a particularly convincing way to measure whether or not we should encourage women to be autonomous.
01:21:00.000I think we should maximize agency within a fair system that has reasonable parameters because it's expedient, it's good for the economy, it's logical, it's the moral thing, because if we can't prove the material harms, we shouldn't discourage it.
01:21:10.000And also self-reported studies is a really flawed way to do psychology.
01:21:13.000It's the week before my university exams right now, and I'm standing here explaining the basic methodology behind survey collection in sociology, which you don't even think is a real subject, to Charlie Kirk.
01:21:23.000If I took one of those surveys right now, I'd check extremely miserable.
01:21:35.000I mean, like, that's an important point, though, is that the women in the West have it the best in the world, and yet they're way unhappier than women of Sub-Saharan Africa.
01:22:10.000Would you agree that it's a good thing that more women get married and have children in the West?
01:22:14.000I would ask you, would you say that a sub-Saharan African woman who's experienced female genital mutilation and checks extremely happy in a survey, and I also would check extremely happy in a survey, who do you think would be objectively more happy, even if they both check the same answer?
01:22:27.000Again, so if you want to talk about how Islam mistreats women, we could talk all day long.
01:22:38.000I think that all religious fundamentalism is bad, and if you take that logic, we should also not allow evangelical Christians in the UK either.
01:23:47.000Because we've told them to suppress how they are made by God and pursue something else and get a bunch of trinkets and get a bunch of promotions and they end up at 38 years old with a big flat in London and they're miserable.
01:24:00.000And we should tell them to stop freezing their eggs and start finding their partner earlier and have lots of babies.
01:24:06.000I think I'd bring two just final points to this.
01:24:07.000First one is just really intuitive, right?
01:24:09.000Which is that if you actually care about women's happiness, then the solution is to structurally support them.
01:24:13.000That means universal childcare, shared legally enforceable parental leave.
01:24:16.000And in Nordic countries where women have high workforce participation and also some state support, they report higher life satisfaction than in more conservative countries, including America.
01:25:12.000Okay, I think just one final thing, which is in which case we get to a really interesting argument about what parts of womanhood can be demarcated to the social and what kinds of womanhood can be demarcated to the biological.
01:25:21.000So, for example, my anatomy is demarcated to the biological, but the fact that I might potentially be a better nurturer than a man, I would demarcate that to the social, you might demarcate that to the biological, in which case we have differing moral scales of value.
01:25:30.000I would ask why we should necessarily prioritize your moral scale of value, which prioritizes things like the birth rate, when in actual fact there are various other moral scales of value.
01:25:39.000And if you yourself are a free market American, why is it the case that you would not, like the previous speaker noted, extend personal freedoms towards all spheres, including a private sphere?
01:25:49.000And it's absolutely wrong and bad when a society stops having kids to replace their own population.
01:25:53.000And then you have to import the third world and you become the third world.
01:26:01.000You know one of the biggest lies being sold to American people right now is that you're in control of your money, especially when it comes to crypto.
01:26:07.000But the truth, most of these so-called crypto platforms are just banks in disguise, fully capable of freezing your assets the moment some bureaucrat makes a phone call.
01:26:16.000That is not what Bitcoin was built for.
01:26:32.000Not some three-letter agency that thinks it knows better than you do.
01:26:35.000This is how it was intended by the original creators of Bitcoin, peer-to-peer money, free from centralized control, free from surveillance, and free from arbitrary seizure.
01:26:44.000So if you're serious about financial sovereignty, go to Bitcoin.com, set up your wallet, take back control, because if you don't hold the keys, you don't own your money.
01:27:13.000You've obviously devoted a lot of your life to electing, keeping in power Donald Trump.
01:27:18.000And you did so partly because you said Trump would put Americans first and take them out of foreign conflicts.
01:27:23.000Shall we see how that is going at the moment?
01:27:26.000Currently, Trump has just accepted a $400 million debt from Qatar, which we're assured is perfectly above board.
01:27:32.000Billions in arms are going to Saudi Arabia, which they're using to bomb and starve Yemeni children.
01:27:37.000Not sure how that's in the interest of the United States.
01:27:39.000but it might be in the interest of the $5.5 billion deal his failed sons are receiving.
01:27:44.000At the same time, this great president of peace has greenlit mass killings, not just in Yemen, but in Gaza, where he greenlit an invasion called Operation Gideon's Chisholm.
01:27:59.000Haven't you and your ilk sold America out?
01:28:02.000applause applause applause applause applause applause Well, I'm glad you have great intellectual substance and can answer.
01:28:18.000Because it's all the culture wars for you, isn't it?
01:28:20.000The second someone actually tells you what you're doing, Pound on the table, you're all over the place.
01:28:50.000He is convening a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine.
01:28:53.000I believe we will see an end to that war.
01:28:55.000Number two, he's actually talking to Iran and discouraging Israel to strike the interior of Iran and has stopped many other international countries to do the same.
01:29:04.000Number three, can you give him credit for ending the Indian-Pakistan war?
01:29:30.000Well, again, these are ongoing negotiations, and it's a lot better than when your Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, went alongside our Secretary of State, Tony Blinken, to Istanbul and unnecessarily blew up a potential Russian peace deal, which has resulted in hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians, one of the great unnecessary wars of the modern era.
01:29:50.000Donald Trump believes in conversation and police through strength.
01:29:53.000He has been president for well over 120 to 130 days, and he has already ended a war between two nuclear conflicts of India-Pakistan.
01:30:01.000He has secured our own U.S. southern border while we were being invaded by foreign powers.
01:30:05.000And thirdly, he is brokering a potential settlement with Iran that will prevent a major escalation in the Middle East.
01:30:12.000And finally, it is very difficult, but I believe they'll get it done, that we'll finally see an end to the Russian-Ukrainian war.
01:30:22.000But do you really think leverage, negotiations work if you cut off all your leverage and scream at one party in the Oval Office?
01:30:29.000Don't you think that has just emboldened Russia?
01:30:32.000Putin thinks so much of your glorious president, he can't even be asked to show up.
01:30:36.000You have elected, or help elect, somebody who is at best an idiot and at worst is deeply corrupt.
01:30:42.000Okay, again, so Trump and Putin had a two-hour phone call today.
01:30:45.000You'll acknowledge that's a good thing.
01:30:46.000The pursuit of peace can sometimes be a winding road, and it's a lot better than sending hundreds of billions of dollars further into the killing fields of eastern Ukraine, something that tragically, both the UK government and the US government, has been unnecessarily supporting for a couple of years.
01:31:02.000President Trump wants to see a brokerage, an ending of this settlement.
01:31:06.000It's very complicated because of the mess that Joe Biden left, which was an active kinetic war with a nuclear power sending American-made missiles into the interior of Russia.
01:31:15.000So President Trump has already ended a At this point we are merely speculating, which I think we should not spend our time doing that, because eventually one of us will be right.
01:31:27.000I believe we'll be right, and I believe we'll see an end to this war.
01:31:30.000Can we just talk about 100 billions worth of weapons?
01:31:32.000Because you dodged my question on what was going on in the Middle East, where Trump has just signed enormous arms contracts with Saudi Arabia and with Qatar.
01:31:40.000And I noticed you ignored the fact that this might have had anything to do with the blatant corruption going on through the Trump coin and going on through giving the very competent sons of Donald Trump.
01:31:52.000Billions of investment from Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
01:31:55.000This is something that is directly embroiling Americans into conflict but is importantly killing many innocent people.
01:32:01.000Those nations have been known to terrorise innocent civilian populations.
01:32:04.000So if you're coming to me and you're objecting to America selling weaponry, why are you defending shilling for the Saudis?
01:33:24.000Under that fundamental moral principle, can you acknowledge, though, that President Trump is getting more done in a less period of time than any president we've seen, while our prior president did not even know what year he got elected?
01:33:40.000No, I'm not saying President Trump is far better than the predecessor.
01:33:43.000You're going to have to defend the person you spent millions to write.
01:33:45.000I will defend every day of someone who ends an invasion, who brings down the price of oil, who is revitalizing the American economy, who is brokering peace, who stopped the potential nuclear war, who is bringing Iran to the table and bringing Russia to the table, someone who does not want armed conflicts with the greatest powers of our time.
01:34:11.000Let's check on how Trump is doing in terms of diplomacy.
01:34:14.000Look, with the war in the Middle East, do you think it was a defensible decision to tell the Israelis you wanted Trump-Gaza to agree for Israel to invade the Gaza Strip and to continue to murder thousands of innocent children and civilians in a pointless war?
01:34:31.000Well, first of all, you should know something about Trump.
01:34:33.000If you haven't realized with Trump over the last 10 years, he is quite the social media user and uses hyperbolic language at times.
01:34:42.000But let me ask you, in the conflict of Israel versus Hamas, who's the good guy?
01:34:45.000I believe both Hamas and the Israeli government are evil, but I think also that there is no justification for the murder and mutilation of thousands of innocent people and children.
01:35:01.000There's no justification, Mr. Kerr, for invading hospitals, for bombing innocent populations, and dragging out a war which is damaging Israel and the West.
01:35:11.000You've made that point, but it's not a point, it's a moral truth, isn't it?
01:35:14.000It was also a moral truth that the war started because 1,300 Jews were killed and 200 were taken hostage.
01:35:19.000And when you declare war on Israel, expect a firestorm in reaction.
01:35:52.000Where they wear civilian clothing, they violate every tenant of the Geneva Convention, and the IDF, when they do something right, they get no credit.
01:35:59.000When they do life-saving surgeries of a Gazan child, they get no credit.
01:36:02.000When they drive leaflets, drop leaflets, they get no credit.
01:36:04.000But when they happen to bomb a place where they are operating their military from, which we now know from third time, I'm sorry, the country where they were living in relative peace on October 6th.
01:36:19.000That all of a sudden we had a war, and Hamas started the war.
01:36:22.000And I don't see people that were really upset about the two million Germans that were killed in World War II, civilians.
01:36:27.000A tragic truth of war is that civilians die.
01:36:30.000I don't like it, and you don't like it.
01:36:33.000The only operation at NTG to blame is the leadership of Hamas, not the Israeli government, for fighting this defensive war after they were invaded.
01:36:43.000I am no defender of the terrible pogrom that was launched against Jews on that day.
01:36:49.000But the justification for the death of innocents cannot be an infinite cycle of bloodlust.
01:36:54.000It cannot be killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians with a war with no end in sight.
01:37:00.000People who are not complicit in those atrocities.
01:37:02.000It cannot be bombing hospitals which children use.
01:37:05.000It cannot be bombing hospitals in which cancer patients are dying and starving in there.
01:37:10.000The deaths that have been inflicted, nobody knows the true toll, but somewhere between 50 and 100,000 people lie dead under the rubble.
01:37:19.000What is left for Gaza except for to continue to suffer under Hamas?
01:37:22.000Because it turns out Netanyahu's political strategy has not worked.
01:37:26.000it has entrenched her mass within the territories.
01:37:29.000To be a Christian, I would have thought Mr. Kirk, would never have involved suggesting that the price for an atrocity must be an infinite cycle of bloodlust, that innocent people and the young population must be killed to avenge some kind of providential No one likes what's happening in Gaza.
01:37:50.000No one with a heart or a soul or a mind likes when kids die.
01:37:54.000but you must understand who started the conflict so that you could end it correctly.
01:37:57.000And until Hamas brokers an unconditional surrender, They could release the hostages and drop their weapons and their lives would be spared.
01:38:06.000Instead, they are using children of Gaza as cannon fodder, financed by the Iranian mullahs and dragging the entire world into this conflict.
01:38:14.000So, I don't even know what we're debating at this point other than I believe that Israel, I believe the facts, Israel was unconditionally attacked on October 7th.
01:38:29.000Not with the blanket carpet bombing of the city, not with bombing hospitals.
01:38:33.000Of course, some kind of military operation might have been necessary, but not murder on this scale.
01:38:39.000There is no justification for what is happening with the enormous death toll that is being produced.
01:38:44.000I really cannot see how you come here and you have the gall to lecture us on Christian morality and then sit here and justify the murder of thousands of civilians.
01:39:21.000It's interesting you say that because a child I will be glad that I will not have been somebody who has defended the genocide of the Palestinian people.
01:39:38.000And I think you will have to reckon one day that you have reckoned with...
01:40:06.000I believe when everything is done, Mr. Kirk, people will see you and the people you've supported as corrupt, as selling the country out to the lowest bidder, and of doing irreparable damage to a country I'm sure we all deep down love.
01:46:25.000I think you have to agree to support them as a free country and perhaps sell them weapons.
01:46:30.000Aren't you very happy to sell weapons to less free countries?
01:46:33.000And I think Europe will pick up the slack, as we ought to.
01:46:36.000And I don't disagree with some of the comments about Europe not looking after its own security.
01:46:41.000I just don't get this approach, which was supposedly to end the war quickly, which now seems to be elongating it.
01:46:51.000And in doing so, throwing up a smokescreen of very variable facts, if they are facts at all, about how things occurred, which actually isn't helping things.
01:47:03.000And if people can't see that Putin is stalling, I'm just...